Interpreting record

[pjaj]

I have a pdf copy of the navy record of a relative who served from 1881 to 1919. He first retired in 1909, joined the RFR Portsmouth and rejoined in 1914. Most of it is legible and some bits will need access to the original.

However I would like help on one or two things.

From 1.1.1915 to 25.2.1917 he served on what appears to be

M Fa Barca (Lock Royal)

M = ?
I guess Fa = fleet auxilliary
The letter "B" could be a "J" or and "S" or maybe something else, in any case I can find no reference to any of the possibilities or to Lock Royal.

I've just found this very useful post

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-12/1101920741

This explains a lot , but what were the good conduct badge designations G1, D1 and R1?

There was one not covered in the "Remarks" column "£3.10 GC&B Lady '94"
C.G & B = Clothing and Bedding Gratuity, but what about the "Lady '94"
Later on there was a similar "£11 GB Lady <illegible, probably a date>"
GB = Bedding Gratuity.

Any help would be appreciated.

[herakles]

Welcome to the Forum pjaj.

Is it possible you could place some of he file in question here for members to read? That would mean you scanning bits of it first.

You've given some information for us to go on. Let's see what happens.

[historydavid]

MFA = Mercantile Fleet Auxiliary (usually a hired merchant vessel).
"BARCA" would be the name of the vessel.

Normally when another name follows in brackets it indicates that the second vessel was the one served on. The first indicating the depot or mother ship.

Cannot find a Lock Royal but there was a trawler called LOCH LOYAL.

This was a hired vessel of 196 tons, built 1907, converted for minesweeping and fitted with 1x6 pdr AA gun in service Aug 14 to 1919.

Hope this helps.

[Joseph]

Welcome to the forum,

Good Conduct Badges

G1 Granted 1st GCB
D1 Deprived 1st GCB
R1 Restored 1st GCB

Regards Charles

[al1934]

Hello pjaj,

Another good website with examples is at http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=6&gl=uk

Best wishes

[pjaj]

If you wish to view the record, and what I have been able to transcribe to date then please look at

http://www.pjajennings.co.uk/William_Semmens.html

[pjaj]

Originally Posted by historydavid

MFA = Mercantile Fleet Auxiliary (usually a hired merchant vessel).
"BARCA" would be the name of the vessel.

Normally when another name follows in brackets it indicates that the second vessel was the one served on. The first indicating the depot or mother ship.

Cannot find a Lock Royal but there was a trawler called LOCH LOYAL.

This was a hired vessel of 196 tons, built 1907, converted for minesweeping and fitted with 1x6 pdr AA gun in service Aug 14 to 1919.

Hope this helps.

Yes this agrees with family recollections. My late Grandmother said that he was in charge of a Minesweeper at one time. Would a CPO be given his own ship, or is she mistaken in this respect?

She was one of 7 sisters living in Rotherhithe, now SE London, and could remember being sent with her sisters, 2 or 3 at a time, to holiday with her Aunt (William's wife) in Portsmouth. They would walk along the sands as far as Hayling Island. At the time (1909 - 1914) she thought that he was a civilian foreman at the naval dockyard. Are there any records of this?

[historydavid]

Anything is possible in wartime, but it was normally a Skipper RNR (ex trawler man) or junior RN officer, eg Sub-Lt that was in command.

Two thoughts occur, he could have taken temporary command if the CO was sick or he may have over-stressed his responsibilities (if the CO was "green" it might have seemed like he was in charge).

[pjaj]

Originally Posted by historydavid

Anything is possible in wartime, but it was normally a Skipper RNR (ex trawler man) or junior RN officer, eg Sub-Lt that was in command.

Two thoughts occur, he could have taken temporary command if the CO was sick or he may have over-stressed his responsibilities (if the CO was "green" it might have seemed like he was in charge).

Or it could have been a bit of wishful thinking by granny!

[pjaj]

A bit more Googling for "Minesweeper support ship" brings up the Zaria. The funny letter was a very cursive "Z" and the "c" was actually an "i" with the dot so placed that it looked like the loop of a "c". The "R" of "Royal" is a cursive "L". Mostly my bad for not being able to read old cursive writing, but they did miss-spell "Loch" as "Lock"!

So the entry actually should read:

MFA Zaria (Loch Loyal)

[historydavid]

Aye, but it wouldn't be so much fun if it was straight forward.

[Fairlead]

I am re-activating this thread rather than start a new one - can anyone shed any light on the meaning of the 'List' and 'Number' in the following entry on my grandfathers service docs which date from 1908:
Albert Victor PERRY L590 Devonport

Ships &c., Served in. List Number From To
Cornwall 5ci 24 6 Sep 08. 24 July 10

[i]Rating
Offs Cook 1cl

Fairlead

[pjaj]

Originally Posted by Fairlead

I am re-activating this thread rather than start a new one - can anyone shed any light on the meaning of the 'List' and 'Number' in the following entry on my grandfathers service docs which date from 1908:
Albert Victor PERRY L590 Devonport

Ships &c., Served in. List Number From To
Cornwall 5ci 24 6 Sep 08. 24 July 10

[i]Rating
Offs Cook 1cl

Fairlead

If you follow the link in one of my earlier posts you will (eventually) come to my transcriptions of my Gt Gt Uncle's record. Both "List" and "Number" are sub-headings of "Ships' Books". My interpretation of this is that each ship had a crew list that was kept in a log book. It was updated as personnel joined and left. In his case the "List" seems to be mostly 5,12,15,15a or 16. These may have been volume numbers, a different number book for each rank. The "Number" is possibly the line number in that book. However my transcription does have some anomalies.

[al1934]

Scribes present and correct, at the dip!

List and No. refer to the Pay List of the ship's ledger on each ship he served on and his Ship's Book Number, which is where his pay account would have been recorded. His pay account would record not only the money he was entitled to but also his advancements in his rating, his good conduct badges, his allowances, gratuities, etc. Every quarter the ship's ledger was balanced, checked and sent to the Admiralty and each man's Service record brought up to date.

There were various Lists for each category of personnel. Officers were on one List. Royal Marines on another. Seamen on another and so on.

As each person joined a ship or establishment, he was allocated the next number (Ship's Book Number) and entered on to the ship's books. List and Ship's Book No. used to be included on ratings' Service Certificates but this was discontinued. In my day this was purely for pay and recording purposes and not included on our Service Certificates.

Hope this explains it.

Best wishes

[Fairlead]

Thank you pjaj and Alick - Yes I agree and am quite familiar with the headings and what they are used for - perhaps I did not explain very well but what I am after is the actual 'genre' indicated by the 5ci. My grandfather joined the ship direct from civilian life (Not through a barracks or training establishment routine) and left the ship back to civilian life (Discharged shore at own request) and was I think directly employed (so to speak) by the Officers of HMS CORNWALL as a civilian cook - albiet wearing uniform (as he did as an RAF Officers Mess Chef in WWII - He actually joined the Scots Guards as a Sgt Cook for WWI!). Another intersting aspect of his docs is that the Date and Period of Engagement box is blank, indicating that he did not 'sign on' as we did.
My next task is to find out HMS CORNWALL's programme during that period.

Fairlead