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  #1726  
Old 21-09-2017, 15:47
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jbryce1437 jbryce1437 is offline
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Default Re: Naval Uniforms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelican View Post
Yes Jim. I wondered if the 'thick soled' shoes were perhaps issued to wear onboard.
That was my thoughts, like the suede? boots that were issued to personnel working on the flight deck at one time.

Jime
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  #1727  
Old 21-09-2017, 15:57
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Default Re: Naval Uniforms

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Originally Posted by jbryce1437 View Post
That was my thoughts, like the suede? boots that were issued to personnel working on the flight deck at one time.

Jime
We were never allowed to wear them with Number ones, even the Boots DMS, loan clothing, with the arrow stitching removed, filled with polish and shone to a mirror finish, if the Jossman saw them, you were in the rattle.
Being a Jack Dusty, we had three pairs, Hard Crabby work, regular work and Posh work eg. going ashore.
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  #1728  
Old 27-11-2017, 12:57
Grosser Kreuzer Grosser Kreuzer is offline
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Default Re: Naval Uniforms

Leaving aside the Army and RAF servicemen, even the footwear of the naval ratings appears to differ in the main. The Petty Officer at extreme right even appears to be wearing what I will term "walking boots." Let's hope that there will be an accurate answer soon.

GK
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  #1729  
Old 28-11-2017, 06:59
fleetchief fleetchief is offline
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Default Re: Naval Uniforms

I remember well the 'Pusser's Passion Killers' underwear issued to me in 1956, at HMS FISGARD. Kit included 2 uniforms in very Rough Serge, one Single-Breasted and the other Double Breasted. Also 2 pairs of boots, one studded (for Parade Ground use) and one in-studded (for Normal Day wear). We had to purchase shoes, to wear ashore, from SLOPS.

One of the problems with changes to the kit of the Lower-Deck personnel, was that the decisions were made by General List Officers that had gone to Dartmouth and had no experience of the Lower-Deck.

A good example of this was when the Fleet Chief was introduced in 1971. Rank shown by a Royal Coat-of Arms badge above the CPO's sleeve buttons on ONE arm. This was realised to be a cock-up, because if a rating approached from one side, he addressed you as "Chief", because he could only see the three buttons on your sleeve, but if he approached from the other side, then he addressed you as "Sir", because he could see the Royal Coat-of-Arms. This the Powers-that-be solved fairly quickly by getting rid of the CPO's buttons and having the Royal Coat-of Arms badge on BOTH sleeves.

Another Cock-up was the FCPO's cap badge. It was just a slightly flashier CPO's cap Badge, with an added circle around the anchor and tiddlier leaves. Especially in poor light it was difficult to see the difference, so if the wearer did not have a jacket on, then you had a problem in deciding if he was a CPO or a FCPO. After many years the Powers-that-be caught on and produced a new WO1 cap badge that was drastically different to the CPO cap badge. Virtually a simplified Officer's cap badge. For those interested I have attached a jpg showing the 3 relevant badges. They are all scaled so that the crown is identical in size on all 3 badges, and the WO1 badge is actual size (I measured the one I have).

Cheers,

Ed
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File Type: jpg R.N. Cap Badges.jpg (1.15 MB, 11 views)
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  #1730  
Old 28-11-2017, 08:25
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Default Re: Naval Uniforms

Does anyone remember the port and Starboard caps we used to purchase from the Naval tailors,
Alan
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  #1731  
Old 28-11-2017, 11:38
Grosser Kreuzer Grosser Kreuzer is offline
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Default Re: Naval Uniforms

Yes, Alan: as of 1961. Thereafter I bought always bought "Pusser!"

GK
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  #1732  
Old 28-11-2017, 15:57
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Pelican Pelican is offline
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Exclamation Re: Naval Uniforms

Caps - yes a bit pricier pre 1960 for some coloured inserts. We used to brush our blue caps port and starboard sometimes otherwise circular.
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  #1733  
Old 28-11-2017, 17:27
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Default Re: Naval Uniforms

One thing stands out

Army and Air Force court mount their Medals whereas the navy don’t with the exception of the P.O. who has the LS medal has his court mounted.

Also only one has his shoes polished
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  #1734  
Old 28-11-2017, 23:24
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Pelican Pelican is offline
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Exclamation Re: Naval Uniforms

SKY PILOTS - FOR INFO

Some members may have seen the 'cross' on the Q.E.C. thread - https://twitter.com/HMSQnlz/status/932256622105300994
Not recognising it I asked an oppo who is knowledgeable re uniforms and he came back with:
"Gilt foul anchor superimposed on a plain seeded silver Maltese Cross with a raised burnished edge worn by Chaplains from 1961. I believe worn as collar badge."
And followed up with:
"Initially the Chaplain's wore black Maltese crosses on the collar of the white warm weather tunic where it had a stand collar i.e. They could not wear the dog collar.
They were also worn on black shoulder tabs of a lapelled jacket (in this case they were gilt) and were also worn on the Chaplains scarf when in church uniform i.e. the surplice.
The black crosses disappeared in 1949ish their place being taken by the gilt cross until 1961 when that new one came in."
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File Type: jpg Chaplain.jpg (132.4 KB, 7 views)
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  #1735  
Old 29-11-2017, 11:01
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Default Re: Naval Uniforms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelican View Post
SKY PILOTS - FOR INFO

Some members may have seen the 'cross' on the Q.E.C. thread - https://twitter.com/HMSQnlz/status/932256622105300994
Not recognising it I asked an oppo who is knowledgeable re uniforms and he came back with:
"Gilt foul anchor superimposed on a plain seeded silver Maltese Cross with a raised burnished edge worn by Chaplains from 1961. I believe worn as collar badge."
And followed up with:
"Initially the Chaplain's wore black Maltese crosses on the collar of the white warm weather tunic where it had a stand collar i.e. They could not wear the dog collar.
They were also worn on black shoulder tabs of a lapelled jacket (in this case they were gilt) and were also worn on the Chaplains scarf when in church uniform i.e. the surplice.
The black crosses disappeared in 1949ish their place being taken by the gilt cross until 1961 when that new one came in."
Hi Pelican,
The Chaplains badge introduced in 1961 was actually worn on shoulder straps.
Mike B
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  #1736  
Old 29-11-2017, 12:29
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Pelican Pelican is offline
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Exclamation Re: Naval Uniforms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B View Post
Hi Pelican,
The Chaplains badge introduced in 1961 was actually worn on shoulder straps.
Mike B
Thanks Mike will pass back.
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  #1737  
Old 08-01-2018, 19:03
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Exclamation Re: Naval Uniforms

BLACKSMITHS

Some members may be interested and perhaps comment on post 2583 onwards on - http://www.worldnavalships.com/forum...4#post10172854
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  #1738  
Old 09-01-2018, 16:25
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Default Re: Naval Uniforms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelican View Post
BLACKSMITHS

Some members may be interested and perhaps comment on post 2583 onwards on - http://www.worldnavalships.com/forum...4#post10172854
Pelican,
My knowledgeable oppo’s sphere of interest is RN rate and branch badges. Here is what he has to say vis-vis Artisans and Artificers: “ To avoid confusion between naval Artificers (Engine Room Artificer & Electrical Artificer etc) who wore no trade badges and had a different rating structure and the dockyard based trades, the generic term Artisan had replaced Artificer by 1912. Shipwrights and Carpenters Mates wore Class 3 Uniform (fore and aft rig), all other Artisans (including Carpenters crew) wore Class 2 uniform (square rig) until October 1918 then changed into Class 3. The Artisan trades were all declared obsolete in 1948 when a new training scheme was introduced for Shipwright Artificers, shortly after which it was announced that as they were now Artificers they did not require a branch badge.
The dates between which the ‘Blacksmith’ Artificer/Artisan trade rates existed are:
Blacksmith/Blacksmith’s Mate 1890-1918.
Chief Blacksmith 1916-1948.
Blacksmiths 1st to 5th Class 1918-1948
Regarding the photos, It was common practice in the 1890s for ratings in white working dress not to wear branch badges. They are wearing blue jerseys under their jumpers which indicates that they are in cold weather rig.
“Idlers”, as shown in the second photo attached, were men that were not employed on sailing the ship, such as Artisans, who kept the ship in an efficient state and ready to fight. They entered as a tradesman direct from shore practice or at apprentice level. They wore a similar uniform to that of POs and CPOs. Other Idlers included a barber, shoemakers, cooks, stewards, domestic servants, tailors and sick berth attendants.
A very complex subject indeed. I hope my small contribution has been of some help.
Mike
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  #1739  
Old 09-01-2018, 17:11
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Pelican Pelican is offline
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Exclamation Re: Naval Uniforms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B View Post
Pelican,
My knowledgeable oppo’s sphere of interest is RN rate and branch badges. Here is what he has to say vis-vis Artisans and Artificers: “ To avoid confusion between naval Artificers (Engine Room Artificer & Electrical Artificer etc) who wore no trade badges and had a different rating structure and the dockyard based trades, the generic term Artisan had replaced Artificer by 1912. Shipwrights and Carpenters Mates wore Class 3 Uniform (fore and aft rig), all other Artisans (including Carpenters crew) wore Class 2 uniform (square rig) until October 1918 then changed into Class 3. The Artisan trades were all declared obsolete in 1948 when a new training scheme was introduced for Shipwright Artificers, shortly after which it was announced that as they were now Artificers they did not require a branch badge.
The dates between which the ‘Blacksmith’ Artificer/Artisan trade rates existed are:
Blacksmith/Blacksmith’s Mate 1890-1918.
Chief Blacksmith 1916-1948.
Blacksmiths 1st to 5th Class 1918-1948
Regarding the photos, It was common practice in the 1890s for ratings in white working dress not to wear branch badges. They are wearing blue jerseys under their jumpers which indicates that they are in cold weather rig.
“Idlers”, as shown in the second photo attached, were men that were not employed on sailing the ship, such as Artisans, who kept the ship in an efficient state and ready to fight. They entered as a tradesman direct from shore practice or at apprentice level. They wore a similar uniform to that of POs and CPOs. Other Idlers included a barber, shoemakers, cooks, stewards, domestic servants, tailors and sick berth attendants.
A very complex subject indeed. I hope my small contribution has been of some help.
Mike
T.V.M. Mike, most interesting, will pass back to both the 'questioner' and my oppo.
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