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  #1  
Old 24-10-2016, 22:50
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Default The German Salute

Different Salutes?
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  #2  
Old 25-10-2016, 01:31
Scatari Scatari is offline
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Default Re: The German Salute

Interesting to see the officer in the centre of the front rank giving the traditional naval salute rather than the Nazi one.
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  #3  
Old 25-10-2016, 04:12
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Default Re: The German Salute

While the "Hitler Salute" salute was mandatory for civilians, a compromise edict from the Reich Defense Ministry, released on 19 September 1933, required the Hitler salute of soldiers and uniformed civil servants while singing the "Horst Wessel Lied" and national anthem, and in non-military encounters both within and outside the Wehrmacht (for example, when greeting members of the civilian government). At all other times they were permitted to use their traditional salutes.

Use of the Hitler salute was also permitted when in uniform. However, it is of importance to note that according to (pre-Nazi) Reichswehr and Wehrmacht protocol, the traditional military salute was not permitted when the saluting soldier was not wearing a uniform headgear (helmet or cap). Because of this, all salutes performed bareheaded, even when in full uniform and on duty, made the Nazi salute de facto mandatory in most situations.

Non-Nazi Party military personnel were still authorized to use the standard salute while in uniform and wearing headgear until shortly after the failed assassination attempt on Hitler in 1944. The order mandating military personnel to use the Hitler Salute in all situations went into effect on 24 July 1944.
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Old 25-10-2016, 11:37
RNfanDan RNfanDan is offline
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Default Re: The German Salute

Captain Ernst Lindemann was among those officers known to have used the naval salute, even when greeting Hitler, himself. Of all the military branches then, the Kriegsmarine was perhaps the least "Nazified".

According to Kennedy's Pursuit --still among my favorite books of all time, and a cornerstone of my library collection for more than 44 years as I write this--Lindemann was not one to associate himself with the Nazi party.

He apparently was not alone, particularly among the more tenured Reichsmarine / Kriegsmarine officers, in his dedication to the service and not to Germany's political institutions. The German Navy even retained some Jewish officers, and generally observed more traditional attitudes and customs than other organizations at the time.

I'm certain that Hitler's admitted discomfort with sea warfare and naval doctrines helped to further insulate the navy from his more extreme tendencies.
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Old 25-10-2016, 11:48
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Default Re: The German Salute

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scatari View Post
Interesting to see the officer in the centre of the front rank giving the traditional naval salute rather than the Nazi one.
Yes I've heard or read of this before Tim so I followed it up this time. Being a slow reader you will understand that it took me a little while to find.
However, "He was one of the few officers who refused to give the Nazi salute when Hitler visited Bismarck before its first and final mission, deliberately using instead the traditional naval salute"
So the other ship is Bismarck and the officer Gunther Lujens - quite a man!
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnther_L%C3%BCtjens
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  #6  
Old 25-10-2016, 14:21
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Default Re: The German Salute

Quote:
Originally Posted by RNfanDan View Post
Captain Ernst Lindemann was among those officers known to have used the naval salute, even when greeting Hitler, himself. Of all the military branches then, the Kriegsmarine was perhaps the least "Nazified".

According to Kennedy's Pursuit --still among my favorite books of all time, and a cornerstone of my library collection for more than 44 years as I write this--Lindemann was not one to associate himself with the Nazi party.

He apparently was not alone, particularly among the more tenured Reichsmarine / Kriegsmarine officers, in his dedication to the service and not to Germany's political institutions. The German Navy even retained some Jewish officers, and generally observed more traditional attitudes and customs than other organizations at the time.

I'm certain that Hitler's admitted discomfort with sea warfare and naval doctrines helped to further insulate the navy from his more extreme tendencies.
(Somewhat off topic for the unidentified ships thread) Hitler's suspicion of the German Navy seemed from the Imperial Navy's role in the Kiel Mutiny and the November Revolution in 1918. Yes, there were important naval officers who kept the Nazis at arms length (Lütjens, for example, and Canaris who seems to have been an active if discrete member of the opposition), but equally there were some very right-wing and politically active naval officers (Hermann Ehrhardt, for example; and Reinhard Heydrich, the nastiest of them all, started out in the navy). Later in the war leaders of the Kriegsmarine took great pains to prove their loyalty to the Nazi regime, Dönitz making loud protestations of loyalty after the July plot right until the bitter end, sending sailors to defend Berlin in 1945 etc.(I wonder what the matelots though of that), and its not for nothing that he was named Hitler's successor.
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Old 27-10-2016, 16:13
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Default Re: The German Salute

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyrosydd View Post
(Somewhat off topic for the unidentified ships thread) Hitler's suspicion of the German Navy seemed from the Imperial Navy's role in the Kiel Mutiny and the November Revolution in 1918. Yes, there were important naval officers who kept the Nazis at arms length (Lütjens, for example, and Canaris who seems to have been an active if discrete member of the opposition), but equally there were some very right-wing and politically active naval officers (Hermann Ehrhardt, for example; and Reinhard Heydrich, the nastiest of them all, started out in the navy). Later in the war leaders of the Kriegsmarine took great pains to prove their loyalty to the Nazi regime, Dönitz making loud protestations of loyalty after the July plot right until the bitter end, sending sailors to defend Berlin in 1945 etc.(I wonder what the matelots though of that), and its not for nothing that he was named Hitler's successor.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Heydrich cashiered from the Navy for behaviour that was unbecoming of a Naval Officer?

As for the U-boot Arm, I saw a film, quite obviously a propaganda film, depicting the crewmen of the U-boot as ordinary fellows, just doing their job which they didn't relish. There is no doubt that there was bravery within this arm of the Kriegsmarine, but the bankruptcy of the Nazi Government which enabled this use of force and the manner of its employment left a lot to be desired.
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Old 27-10-2016, 18:40
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Default Re: The German Salute

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Williams View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Heydrich cashiered from the Navy for behaviour that was unbecoming of a Naval Officer?

As for the U-boot Arm, I saw a film, quite obviously a propaganda film, depicting the crewmen of the U-boot as ordinary fellows, just doing their job which they didn't relish. There is no doubt that there was bravery within this arm of the Kriegsmarine, but the bankruptcy of the Nazi Government which enabled this use of force and the manner of its employment left a lot to be desired.
(Until the moderators move this discussion to a different thread...) Heydrich was cashiered for a sexual indiscretion rather than because of his politics.

Rather difficult to comment to the second part, and of course postwar EVERYONE suddenly became an anti-NAZI. Anecdotally, I recall U-boat veterans reacting negatively to the movie "Das Boot" because it portrayed u-boat crews making fun of and being cynical about the regime; the vets asserted they were completely loyal.

The point I'm making is that there is not much evidence that the kriegsmarine was somehow less nazified than the other services; after all, the Army did try to blow Hitler up, and the head of the Luftwaffe was ordered arrested for treason, while the head of the navy became the last leader of the Nazi state.
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  #9  
Old 31-10-2017, 13:40
Urs Heßling Urs Heßling is online now
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Default Re: The German Salute

hello,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelican View Post
However, "He was one of the few officers who refused to give the Nazi salute when Hitler visited Bismarck before its first and final mission, deliberately using instead the traditional naval salute"
So the other ship is Bismarck and the officer Gunther Lujens - quite a man!
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnther_L%C3%BCtjens
The initial picture seems to be taken from a LIFE report, see Raeder and Hitler
The ship in the background is the DEUTSCHLAND and the date is, very probably, April 1, 1939, the day of Raeder's promotion to Großadmiral and the day of TIRPITZ' launching in Wilhelmshaven.

greetings, Urs
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  #10  
Old 31-10-2017, 15:18
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Exclamation Re: The German Salute

Thank you Urs.
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