World Naval Ships Forums  
VIEW ALL OF OUR CURRENT SPECIAL OFFERS HERE!

Go Back   World Naval Ships Forums > Naval History > Australian Navy and Ships
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Australian Navy and Ships Topics relating to a specific Australian ship or ships.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 16-09-2017, 16:30
Spoz Spoz is offline
Chief Petty Officer
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 56
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

BTW, the infrastructure part of ASC is now called, with great originality, "Australian Naval Infrastructure Pty Ltd"
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-10-2017, 22:21
ASSAIL ASSAIL is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Darwin NT Australia
Posts: 1,295
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Nice to hear the PM this morning announce that the new Frigates will be fitted with Aegis combat systems and SAAB management interfaces for the non Aegis components.
He also confirmed that the AWDs will be upgraded to BMD as per the Defence White Paper and that the future frigates may/will also be BMD capable.

He confirmed interoperability with the US and regional allies is paramount which is PM speak confirming CEC.

The announcements are not only in response to DPRK but also to give industry certainty particularly Saab Australia and CEA Technology.

https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/...combat-systems

Last edited by ASSAIL : 03-10-2017 at 01:41. Reason: Release by Defmin re Aegis
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-10-2017, 03:48
ASSAIL ASSAIL is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Darwin NT Australia
Posts: 1,295
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

The link provides some background and was published a day before the announcement. It suggests that the choice for combat management system (CMS) lay between Lockmarts Aegis and SAAB's 9LV. It also surmises that a third path may be to create an hybrid system combining the best of both.
As it has turned out, that's exactly the choice made.
I believe the deciding factor for Aegis was CEC (cooperative engagement capability) which will,enable a high quality and seamless tactical and strategic picture to be compiled between the RANs 12 escorts and those Of our Aegis fitted regional allies, US, ROK and Japan, their air assets such as Growler, AWACS, MPA and Romeo

This is a huge capability improvement for the RAN


http://adbr.com.au/sea-5000-combat-s...-pacific-2017/
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-10-2017, 08:22
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: nottingham
Posts: 1,035
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Confirmed that Aegis to be fitted :-

http://navaltoday.com/2017/10/03/aus...ombat-systems/
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-10-2017, 08:01
ASSAIL ASSAIL is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Darwin NT Australia
Posts: 1,295
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Some models of the three contenders were on display at Pacific 2017 in Sydney.

Although the RFI proposals remain secret and can't be released until after a winner is declared one can assume that the models represent a fair view of the ships on offer.
Navantia offer 48 Mk41 cells, the others 32 so this could be a disadvantage. Fincantieri certainly have an eye to design and make the CEAFAR mast look almost likeable and the T26, IMHO, is the easiest on the eye.

At the bottom of the page is a Fassmer OPV model for the SEA 1180 proposal with the winner announced in the next month or so and construction to start next year. Again, IMHO, this seems the best value of money of the three proposals.

https://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...cea-radar.html
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 05-10-2017, 12:45
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: nottingham
Posts: 1,035
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

UK offers T26 technology transfer to Australia :-

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...australia.html
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 13-10-2017, 08:12
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: nottingham
Posts: 1,035
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

At least this time BAE Systems Australia is working hard to up it's game, and bringing the benefits to industry and workforce in regards to the T26 programme into play. Though will commonality favour Navantia.

https://www.defenceonline.co.uk/2017...xt-generation/
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 24-10-2017, 22:45
ASSAIL ASSAIL is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Darwin NT Australia
Posts: 1,295
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

BAE Systems have kicked an own goal in Canberra yesterday.
It has been reported that they have lost an entire folio of confidential plans for Australia's Parliament House. They have been contracted to build security fencing around the building and its access points and "someone" has lost the plans.

If it weren't for their bid for SEA 5000 it may have slipped under the media radar, a PR embarrassment for sure.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-11-2017, 08:54
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: nottingham
Posts: 1,035
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Australian CEA radar for UK frigates ?. I wonder what (if anything) can be read between the lines in this article.

https://www.pyneonline.com.au/media-...radar-for-navy
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-11-2017, 11:37
ASSAIL ASSAIL is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Darwin NT Australia
Posts: 1,295
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruntfuttock View Post
Australian CEA radar for UK frigates ?. I wonder what (if anything) can be read between the lines in this article.

https://www.pyneonline.com.au/media-...radar-for-navy
It certainly seems a sop to Oz to choose T26 although from what I've read CEAFAR seems an astonishing technology which has proved itself at Barking Sands and given the addition of L band it's air search ranges are improved exponentially.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-11-2017, 15:23
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: nottingham
Posts: 1,035
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSAIL View Post
It certainly seems a sop to Oz to choose T26 although from what I've read CEAFAR seems an astonishing technology which has proved itself at Barking Sands and given the addition of L band it's air search ranges are improved exponentially.
As a matter of interest, do you know the per unit cost of a CEAFAR system.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 10-11-2017, 20:46
ASSAIL ASSAIL is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Darwin NT Australia
Posts: 1,295
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruntfuttock View Post
As a matter of interest, do you know the per unit cost of a CEAFAR system.
You will have to excuse the chest beating in the linked article but somewhere it says the cost is about $20mAUD.
In other articles I've read that cost is about one third of comparable radars but I have seen no firm statement from an official,source.
The main benefit though is that the radar is scalable and software based so changes and improvements are possible without expensive hardware upgrades.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2...-edge-defences
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-11-2017, 09:00
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: nottingham
Posts: 1,035
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSAIL View Post
You will have to excuse the chest beating in the linked article but somewhere it says the cost is about $20mAUD.
In other articles I've read that cost is about one third of comparable radars but I have seen no firm statement from an official,source.
The main benefit though is that the radar is scalable and software based so changes and improvements are possible without expensive hardware upgrades.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2...-edge-defences
Thanks a lot for that info and article. I must say that $20mAUD seems very cheap in todays defence equipment terms, but if it does what it says on the tin then it's a bargain.

As for ' chest beating ' as the old saying goes ' If you've got it, then flaunt it '

cheers

GF

PS. I hope you don't mind if I steal your link to post on another board.

Last edited by gruntfuttock : 11-11-2017 at 09:10.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-11-2017, 21:52
RANFAN RANFAN is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 202
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

but how does it compare to Type 997 Artisan radar what are the main difference's?
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:58
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: nottingham
Posts: 1,035
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Quote:
Originally Posted by RANFAN View Post
but how does it compare to Type 997 Artisan radar what are the main difference's?
It is very difficult to find out any technical details of either systems, in the public domain (Which is only to be expected).

So unless you are in the loop, it's impossible to compare them.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 12-11-2017, 12:18
ASSAIL ASSAIL is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Darwin NT Australia
Posts: 1,295
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Quote:
Originally Posted by RANFAN View Post
but how does it compare to Type 997 Artisan radar what are the main difference's?
In short they are both E/F (S) band radars used for search, target acquisition and fire control. Both are capable of tracking and firing on multiple targets however, Artisan has a 700kg scanner rotating at high speed so there are theoretical gaps in coverage albeit minute. Artisan uses electronic beam forming to determine height. It is a radar which is probably the zenith of mechanical,scanning rechnology and I suspect all future radars will be using AESA.
CEAFAR a concept which is designed as a scalable radar, it is a system of tiles which can be joined together to achieve the desired output depending upon power requirement and the transmitter is actually part of the scanning array meaning there is little complex machinery below. It can be fitted in all sizes of ships.
Upgrades require no hardware changes, all can be achieved by software so it is ultimately flexible.
A caveat, I'm no expert on either set I've no experience using them and I'm simply giving a very basic description from what I've read.
Northrop Grumman have purchased 49% of CEA Technology

https://news.northropgrumman.com/new...-sensor-system

And this link provides better specifications.

http://www.cea.com.au/News+Media/Att.../2011-0009.pdf

Last edited by ASSAIL : 12-11-2017 at 12:30.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-11-2017, 16:18
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: nottingham
Posts: 1,035
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

ASSAIL

I know very little about radars, but when you say _

Quote "Artisan uses electronic beam forming to determine height. It is a radar which is probably the zenith of mechanical,scanning rechnology and I suspect all future radars will be using AESA."

You seem to be forgetting " Sampson"
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-11-2017, 21:59
ASSAIL ASSAIL is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Darwin NT Australia
Posts: 1,295
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruntfuttock View Post
ASSAIL

I know very little about radars, but when you say _

Quote "Artisan uses electronic beam forming to determine height. It is a radar which is probably the zenith of mechanical,scanning rechnology and I suspect all future radars will be using AESA."

You seem to be forgetting " Sampson"
Same thing, longer range or so I believe. Just bigger, heavier and more expensive.
CEAFAR L band will do the same job as does the SPY series.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-11-2017, 23:35
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: nottingham
Posts: 1,035
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSAIL View Post
Same thing, longer range or so I believe. Just bigger, heavier and more expensive.
CEAFAR L band will do the same job as does the SPY series.
Well actually it has twice the range of CEAFAR. That is one reason that in gulf, it has always been the choice of any US carrier group when a T45 is on station.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-11-2017, 23:54
ASSAIL ASSAIL is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Darwin NT Australia
Posts: 1,295
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruntfuttock View Post
Well actually it has twice the range of CEAFAR. That is one reason that in gulf, it has always been the choice of any US carrier group when a T45 is on station.
Naturally longer range than CEAFAR But similar to CEAFAR L band when fitted to the future frigates. SPY 1 has limitations in high density traffic which is why Sampson is preferred but this is being remidied in future US radars. The CEA series has excellent discrimination properties in high density contact environments and the radar properties can be altered by software to fit the environment.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 13-11-2017, 09:08
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: nottingham
Posts: 1,035
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASSAIL View Post
Naturally longer range than CEAFAR But similar to CEAFAR L band when fitted to the future frigates. SPY 1 has limitations in high density traffic which is why Sampson is preferred but this is being remidied in future US radars. The CEA series has excellent discrimination properties in high density contact environments and the radar properties can be altered by software to fit the environment.
So in fact we are back full circle to how Artisan compares with the CEA series, Artisan is also said to have excellent high density contact performance.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 13-11-2017, 09:09
gruntfuttock gruntfuttock is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: nottingham
Posts: 1,035
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

BAE CGI of Australian digital shipyard :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ehq...ature=youtu.be
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 13-11-2017, 10:33
ASSAIL ASSAIL is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Darwin NT Australia
Posts: 1,295
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruntfuttock View Post
BAE CGI of Australian digital shipyard :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ehq...ature=youtu.be
As usual BAE are being duplicitous".
ASC (Australian Submarine Corporation), a wholly owned government company, has recently been broken up into three companies, one remaining as a shipbuilding company, one remaining as a submarine sustainment company and the third, Australian Naval Infrastructure created to build the new shipbuilding yard at Osbourne.
The government has already invested extra cash into the company and design work is underway with construction commencing soon.

https://ani.com.au/news/

This is the RAN video released in October

http://video.navy.gov.au/play/5320

Does it look familiar.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 13-11-2017, 21:34
Spoz Spoz is offline
Chief Petty Officer
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 56
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Not duplicitous I don't think; they are going to have to use the yard and they are just putting their spin on it. They will be operating it, and most of the video is about build of the T26 Aust version should it get up. Interesting that the helo shown in the last couple of scenes looks to be a Merlin, and you would think that changing it to a 60R wouldn't be too difficult!
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 14-11-2017, 07:00
ASSAIL ASSAIL is offline
Rear-Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Darwin NT Australia
Posts: 1,295
Default Re: Australian SEA5000 Future Frigates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoz View Post
Not duplicitous I don't think; they are going to have to use the yard and they are just putting their spin on it. They will be operating it, and most of the video is about build of the T26 Aust version should it get up. Interesting that the helo shown in the last couple of scenes looks to be a Merlin, and you would think that changing it to a 60R wouldn't be too difficult!
Maybe duplicitous was a bit strong but their wording in their video shows BAE plastered across the sheds with the subtitles on the video "creating a fully integrated shipyard".
It was intentionally ambiguous at best.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Ship Search by Name : Advanced Search
Random Timeline Entry : 14th January 1939 : HMS Hastings : Arrived on the Tyne with Convoy FN.54

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Australian Navy Adelaide frigates for the Polish Navy? greendragon Polish Navy Ships and Crews 4 03-04-2017 17:03
RAF Coltishall could have a future derek s.langsdon Everything Else 2 15-08-2013 15:07
The Future of Aircraft Carriers Cicero Other Naval Topics 7 09-07-2012 09:40
Future plans??? Ednamay Other Naval Topics 8 14-12-2009 15:10
Could this be the navy of the future? herakles Other Naval Topics 4 15-02-2008 17:26


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.