Wladyslaw Pacewicz ORP Garland & Orkan

[aphome@bigpond.net.au]

Hi, I am researching the history of my father Wladyslaw Pacewicz in WW2 (who died in '98) and there have been some other threads particularly lots of photos of the ORP Garland. My father served on ORP Garland and Orkan between 1943 and 1945 (he had been recruited into the Polish Navy based in Scotland at 13 years of age following release from USSR camps to Palestine via the Free Polish Army). I am interested in Ship 1 and Ship 2 photos - I presume either Garland or Orkan in some sort of inspection. If anyone can shed any light I would appreciate it. The "navy crew" photo my father is in the centre at the bottom. The Christmas card from the Garland is not dated. My father was on the Orkan when it brough General Sikorski's body back from Gibralter and he was also one of only 44 survivors from the sinking of the Orkan - if anybody has any information regarding the sinking of this ship, particularly survivors' accounts I would love to know. Thanks, Anna

[aphome@bigpond.net.au]

Photos attached

[crolick]

Anna,

I would tend to say that Ship 1 is BŁYSKAWICA during inspection of gen. Sikorski and Ship 2 is GARLAND in Murmansk after PQ-16.


As for your father I found it extremely unlikely that he was enlisted into Polish Navy in age of 13.

I do not think also that your father was on ORKAN during her last trip. I have a full list of 43 survivors and your father is not among them. It is possible that he was moved to another ship before ORKAN went down.


Hope it helps,
Andrzej

[aphome@bigpond.net.au]

Dear Andrzej,
Thank you so much for the information regarding the 2 ship photographs. That is so helpful.
I have my father's Polish navy card which is 1943-45. He was born on 17th April 1928, so apologies that would have made him 15 years old in 1943. He was deported to Kazakhstan and joined the Anders Army before the Navy. As you know Anders evacuated everybody that he could including civilians to Persia. My father, and many other boys from Anders Army, lied about their age so that they could enlish. Because they had been deported to Kazakhstan/Siberia they had no birth certificates (to this day we have never been able to source a birth certificate for my father).
There is no doubt my father served on the Orkan in 1943. There is a photograph of him when the ship brought Sikorski's body back to UK (which I will source, it is at the Polish language/info centre in Hammersmith London). And he recalled vividly the sinking of the Orkan, it was very traumatic for him as his shipmates were largely burnt alive.
I am getting all of his papers from Ministry of Defence in the UK.
But I am really curious about the list of 43 survivors you have... there were 44 survivors though as many sources confirm. I would be very grateful if you could let me know where you sourced this.
Thank you, Anna

[crolick]

Originally Posted by aphome@bigpond.net.au

But I am really curious about the list of 43 survivors you have... there were 44 survivors though as many sources confirm. I would be very grateful if you could let me know where you sourced this.
Thank you, Anna

Hi Anna,

source is: NISZCZYCIEL ORP ORKAN 1942-1943 by Tadeusz Kondracki - the most definitive book about ORKAN. List of survivors is given after IPMS MAR.A.V.18/6 "List of survivors".

Number 43 included: 1 officer, 39 ratings, 3 BNL staff.


Hope it helps!
Andrzej

[aphome@bigpond.net.au]

Hi Andrzej,
Thank you - I really appreciate it. I'll look for that book. I'm unlikely to find it here in Australia but I'll be in Poland in June. There does seem to be a discrepancy though because all of the sources I have checked list 44 survivers, e.g. uboat.net; wikipedia; naval-history.net. These are just a few. I can't attach this link but I read a fascinating article about Orkan. It's on www.historia.trojmiasto.pl. Type Orkan in "search" and it's called "ORP Orkan, czyli skutki zlekceważenia marynarskiego przesądu".
The Polish writer also lists 44 survivors. But anyway, aside from that I think you'll find it interesting. I found the account of the survivors in the water very moving.
I hope to receive my father's military records from Ministry of Defence so that should answer it one way or another.
Thanks again, Anna

[aphome@bigpond.net.au]

I have heard that there is a survivor's account from ORP Orkan in a Polish language periodical "Nasze Sygnaly" by a st. mar. masz. Leonard Wojcicki. He was one of the enginge crew. Would anybody have ANY idea how I can source this? I've tried googling to no avail. Is there a Polish Naval Museum (Gdansk?) that would keep copies for example?
Thank you, Anna

[astraltrader]

Hi Anna - just as a point of interest here is a picture of ORKAN carrying home the body of the Polish PM in 1943, followed by the ship itself and finally a picture of Garland.

[aphome@bigpond.net.au]

Terry thank you so much. It's great to see that picture of Orkan with Sikorski's body. My Dad saw either this picture or one similar in London and pointed himself out to my Mum. Do you cheekily by chance have any others?
Thank you again, Anna

[crolick]

Nasze Sygnały should be available in IPiMS - http://www.pism.co.uk/

[aphome@bigpond.net.au]

Regarding ship number 2 I believe it is ORP Piorun March 1940 during an inspection by General Sikorski. I found an absolutely identitical photograph on www.fotohistoria.pl, under General Anders collection Sikorski Museum and there is a folder on the Polish Navy (a collection of great photos). As my father didn't join the Navy until 1942 he was not on ORP Piorun for Sikorski's inspection in March 1940. So I wonder if it was some sort of commemorative photograph that was given to all sailors?
Anna

[aphome@bigpond.net.au]

[quote=crolick;10010801]Anna,

I would tend to say that Ship 1 is BŁYSKAWICA during inspection of gen. Sikorski and Ship 2 is GARLAND in Murmansk after PQ-16.

Dear Andrzej, my father did serve on ORP Garland and I know anecdotally that he went to Murmansk... forgive my lack of knowledge but what is PQ-16?

Apologies for duplicating this message (just working out the forum) but Ship 1 I believe is ORP Piorun during General Sikorski inspection March 1940 (see my post at the end of this thread regarding www.fotohistoria.pl).


Thank you Anna

[jainso31]

PQ16 is a code for a Convoy to Russia.QP is the return. PQ= Russian Convoy number 16

jainso21

[BlackBat242]

The first series, PQ (outbound) and QP (homebound), ran from September 1941 to September 1942.

These convoys ran twice monthly, but were interrupted in the summer of 1942 when the series was suspended after the disaster of PQ17 and again in the autumn after the final convoy of the series, PQ18, due to lengthening daylight hours, and continued preparations for Operation Torch.

The second series of convoys, JW (outbound) and RA (homebound) ran from December 1942 until the end of the war, though with two major interruptions in the summer of 1943 and again in the summer of 1944.

The convoys ran from Iceland (usually off Hvalfjörður) north of Jan Mayen Island to Arkhangelsk when the ice permitted in the summer months, shifting south as the pack ice increased and terminating at Murmansk. After September 1942 they assembled and sailed from Loch Ewe in Scotland.

Outbound and homebound convoys were planned to run simultaneously; a close escort accompanied the merchant ships to port, remaining to make the subsequent return trip, whilst a covering force of heavy surface units was also provided to guard against sorties by German surface ships, such as the Tirpitz. These would accompany the outbound convoy to a cross-over point, meeting and then conducting the homebound convoy back, while the close escort finished the voyage with its charges.

The route was around occupied Norway to the Soviet ports and was particularly dangerous due to the proximity of German air, submarine and surface forces and also because of the likelihood of severe weather, the frequency of fog, the strong currents and the mixing of cold and warm waters which made ASDIC use difficult, drift ice, and the alternation between the difficulties of navigating and maintaining convoy cohesion in constant darkness or being attacked around-the-clock in constant daylight.