HMCS Athabaskan 1970-

[Blackfly]

Couple of pics of the port visit.

[Blackfly]

Have to add the other part of that team.

[BCRenown]

Very nice pics. I still think the RCN Tribals to be the best looking warships afloat. It is mainly to do with the hull - the nicely raked stem, not overly pronounced sheerline and that 'battlecruiser-style' stepped quarterdeck. It has nothing to do with the fact that I'm Canadian.

"TRUMP" got rid of the 'playboy bunny' split funnels and added a much better looking one. The loss of the 5" gun was a little disappointing tho.

Thanks for sharing,

Monty

[dpoidy]

Very nice pics. I still think the RCN Tribals to be the best looking warships afloat. It is mainly to do with the hull - the nicely raked stem, not overly pronounced sheerline and that 'battlecruiser-style' stepped quarterdeck. It has nothing to do with the fact that I'm Canadian.

"TRUMP" got rid of the 'playboy bunny' split funnels and added a much better looking one. The loss of the 5" gun was a little disappointing tho.

Thanks for sharing,

Monty

X2, but I did like the funnel bunny look when they were new in Halifax

Thanks for posting those fine photos

DP

[Blackfly]

Your welcome.

In Glasgow. No point for an extra thread.

[dpoidy]

Another fine photo, my boss here at work was on her in the 80s, he really enjoys the photos, that one may be his "wallpaper"

Myself, never did get "a ride" on the new tribals, but did on the old ones.

[smartd]

Happened to be in St. John's this week. Nice surprise was Athabaskan's unexpected short visit.

[BCRenown]

Very nice pics. Had I known Athabaskan was going to be in St. Johns I would have been there also. Atha B looks a little rusty. Do you know where she was coming from or where she is heading?

Thank you for sharing,

Monty

[smartd]

Very nice pics. Had I known Athabaskan was going to be in St. Johns I would have been there also. Atha B looks a little rusty. Do you know where she was coming from or where she is heading?

Thank you for sharing,

Monty

According to one old timer, she is heading for Halifax for minor repairs and paint then heading south to work with the US authorities on drug/smuggling interdiction. Apparently she is the workhorse of the fleet right now. He estimates he has more at sea time in the last nine months than he had on a couple of CPF tours.

[Blackfly]

Yeah, we are in the process of cleaning those rust stains off in home port but you get that way when you sail most of the time.

[Blackfly]

I know this isn't part of a St John's but its all part of the same trip.

http://bangordailynews.com/2011/06/15/news/canadian-navy-warship-reportedly-spotted-in-maine-waters/

[dpoidy]

I know this isn't part of a St John's but its all part of the same trip.

http://bangordailynews.com/2011/06/15/news/canadian-navy-warship-reportedly-spotted-in-maine-waters/

I guess we invaded for 20 minutes, I wonder if they (Homeland security) are embarrassed, thanks for that, good chuckle

[ludsie]

The tribalks are nice looking ships and thanks for the pics

She's looking a little run down is that deliberate or was it caused by the trip over

[Brian Wentzell]

Blackfly: The picture of SeaKing CH12435 brings to mind that this was the chopper used by the Duke of Cambridge to gain his water landing qualification last month at Dalvay, Prince Edward Island. He is reputed to be the only RAF pilot to hold a current water landing qualification for the Sea King. Old 435 looked very "spiffy" wearing yellow duct tape to prevent water infiltration!

Brian

[dpoidy]

Blackfly: The picture of SeaKing CH12435 brings to mind that this was the chopper used by the Duke of Cambridge to gain his water landing qualification last month at Dalvay, Prince Edward Island. He is reputed to be the only RAF pilot to hold a current water landing qualification for the Sea King. Old 435 looked very "spiffy" wearing yellow duct tape to prevent water infiltration!

Brian
yes that was impressive indeed, only seen that done once before out of Halifax

[Brian Wentzell]

Perhaps SeaKing 435 should be sent to the Shearwater Aviation Museum once, if ever, retired.

Brian

[ludsie]

Does anyone know where you can source a copy of the drawings for theseships

Thanks

Trent

[Brian Wentzell]

As a matter of Canadian maritime air trivia, today, August 14, 2011 marks the 41st anniversary of Sea King CH12435 being taken on strength in the Canadian Armed Forces. She is one of the younger Sea Kings in the fleet!

Brian

[Brian Wentzell]

UPdate: HMCS Athbaskan, now 40 years old, will undergo refit at Seaway Marine and Industrial in St, Catharines, Ontario under a CAD 21.7 million contract announced this week. The work will take place over 9 months from April through December 2012. This will extend her life until 2017. She is presently in Halifax being stripped of weapons and sensors before being turned over to the yard. She will return to service sometime in 2013. In the meantime her sister, HMCS Iroquois, has become the Atlantic Coast flagship.

Brian

[TCC]

Blackfly: The picture of SeaKing CH12435 brings to mind that this was the chopper used by the Duke of Cambridge to gain his water landing qualification last month at Dalvay, Prince Edward Island. He is reputed to be the only RAF pilot to hold a current water landing qualification for the Sea King. Old 435 looked very "spiffy" wearing yellow duct tape to prevent water infiltration!

Brian

Is that for his safety so if he crashes, he can keep the Royal feet dry?

[Brian Wentzell]

TCC: The Prince is one of your guys and we would not want anything to go wrong when a guest is flying one of our antiques! Actually, the duct tape is intended to keep the water out of the chopper, it is more important to keep it dry than the feet of a pilot, even a Royal pilot! After all we don't want corrosion on our geriatric chpper that may have to fly another 5 or who knows how many years. There may be 5 non-combat ready Cyclones available by the end of 2012 for pilot training so the Sea Kings must remain air, road and seaworthy to get around!

Brian

[TCC]

Brian, the question is why is he the only RAF helo pilot with this qualification? I suggest it's for his safety as chances are no-one will be near him if he ditches!

I don't think this is about Canadian Seakings, I think this is about the service aircraft that he flies. It sounds like he's got this water-landing qualification to keep the aircraft upright and safe until some help can arrive.

I was just pondering if this was so?

[Brian Wentzell]

TCC: I think you are right. This is mainly a safety procedure for the Sea King aircrew to allow them to safely exit the aircraft in an emergency. Canadian Sea Kings have diminished over the years due to accidents and aircrew have sadly perished. Having said that, Canada recognises the value of this procedure whereas other countries apparently do not. At least now the RAF has one pilot who has done it and one is better than none!
Brian

[Blackfly]

Well its a procedure to attempt to save the aircraft if the conditions are right until a vessel can get close enough to stabilize the aircraft for recovery. They might be able to correct what was wrong that put them on the water and re-launch the aircraft to head to ship or base.

If the seas are too much and something happens then after that, especially with the heavy transmission on top, it will probably roll over. Then the crew will egress via procedures if they aren't already in the life rafts.

[Brian Wentzell]

Update: HMCS Athabaskan sailed from Halifax yesterday to refit in Ontario. For a photo of the well worn and stripped ship visit shipfax.blogspot.com.
Brian

[dpoidy]

Thanks for that update Brian, told my boss, I think a road trip down the QEW is in order when she gets here, another trip to Anapolis and that one to see Athe B will be good this year

[smartd]

HMCS ATHABASKAN arrived in Port Weller this week for a refit expected to last until December 2012.
Now 40 years old she must be getting tired of all the facelifts.
A couple of photos and some of the work to be done. And a photo from last year.
An addendum states that the sonar dome is to be removed for vessel transfer.

[Brian Wentzell]

Thanks for the pictures and the statement of refit work. By the look of the starboard quarter, it looks as if she was scraping the walls of a seaway lock. The transfer of the sonar dome to another ship is a bit curious. Algonquin and Iroquois are both operational unless one has a problem.

Brian

[BlackBat242]

Perhaps one of them recently bumped something with their dome?

[smartd]

5/15 - Port Weller, Ont. – A destroyer undergoing a retrofit at Seaway Marine Industrial was found to need relatively little structural repair, resulting in the temporary layoff of 14 workers there. “It has reduced our need for steel fitters in the short-term,” said Charlie Payne, director of operations at the dry docks. “These will be temporary layoffs for a about two weeks.”

Of those positions, some are steel fitters and others “C” class painters. Earlier this year, the Port Weller facility was awarded a $21.7-million federal contract to refit the 39-year-old Iroquois-class destroyer based in Halifax.

Payne said overall work is about 20 percent complete, with physical work on the vessel about 1/10 finished.

Factoring in the temporary layoffs, there are 170 people now working on the job. The refit will include underwater work, as well as comprehensive maintenance and repairs on ship systems, such as firefighting and electrical systems, as well as deck equipment. The project will be completed in early November.

St. Catharines Standard

[Brian Wentzell]

This is encouraging news as hull life is a concern in older ships. These ships may hyet see 50 years as their combat systems are relatively modern. There are known issues with the mast and helicopter deck and the latter needs some thought as there is a question of whether the class can handle the CH 149 Cyclone in lieu of the CH 124 Sea King.
Brian

[BCRenown]

Excellent updates gentlemen. Do you know if there will be any major alterations to Athabaskan's appearance?

[Brian Wentzell]

Monty: The problem with the Tribal Class is that they near their weight limits. A lot of command electronics and attennas have been added to Iroquois and Athabaskan, but not as much Algonqiun, and this has contributed to the weight. The masts are of lattice design and they are corrosion prone. The helicopter deck does not meet current standards and would need modification and reinforcement to handle the Cyclone. On the other hand the VDS has been removed and the system decommissioned on all ships.

I suspect that no major alterations will be made and the ships will continue to operate one Sea King until the RCAF says they can no longer be safely flown. That will happen once the Cyclone is operational. After that, the task force commander will have to find a diffferent way to visit his ships while underway!

Brian

[BCRenown]

Brian,

Thanks for that. Are there plans (and funds) for similar work to be carried out on Algonquin and Iroquois also?

Warships aren't much to look at these days but the 280s are downright beautiful. I hope they stay around for a long time to come.

[Brian Wentzell]

Monty: HMCS Iroqouis was refitted in 2011 and one presumes HMCS Algonquin will be refitted upon HMCS Athabaskan returning to service in 2013. Money, as always, will be an issue.
Brian

[Brian Wentzell]

Monty:

The Ottawa Citizen newspaper reports that it has uncovered a briefing note prepared for the Associate Minister of National Defence, Julian Fantino, in 2011 that indicated the Iroquois (Tribal) Class ships will start to be retired beginning in 2017. Is this proceeds, and these destroyers will then be 44-45 years old, there will be a gap in Area Air Defence capability once all three disappear, probably by 2019. Given the current refit schedule, the retirements will probably be as follows: HMCS Iroquois in 2017, Athabaskan in 2018, and Algonquin in 2019.

The command role will be assumed by four of the modernised Halifax Class divided evenly between the Atlantic and Pacific Fleets. The Area Air Defence role will be replaced sometime in the next decade by the new, not yet designed, surface combatant.

Brian

[BCRenown]

Brian,

Thanks as always for the recent update. I'd like to think that at least a pair of Tribals will remain in commission until new area air defence destroyers/frigates join the fleet. For sure, total lack of such would be a serious shortcoming in future fleet operations.

[Brian Wentzell]

Monty: It really comes down to the material condition of the ships and that is affected by how hard they are used and maintained.

One problem that will restrict the utility of the ships is the retirement of the Sea King helicopter. The Tribals are not being modified for the CH148 Cyclone helicopter and no one has suggested that the RCAF will maintain the Sea King once the Cyclone arrives. The Cyclone is heavier and therefore the deck needs to be reinforced and modified, which gets us to the other problem of these ships-they are near their wieght limit now. So, I am not sure they are really worth retention.

Brian

[Chukk]

Just for argument sake, how much more weight would we have to add to the ship to re-enforce the flight deck for the new Helo's? With the continued "miniaturization" of electronics, removal of the VDS and other upgrades, wouldn't the 280's have lost enough weight to implement a new flight deck.
Denying these ships their helo's is a huge lost to their capabilities!

Chukk

[Brian Wentzell]

Chukk: You would have to ask a naval engineer about the weight implications of the various changes. I have been told there are major costs associated with installing the CH148 Cyclone as its onboard logisitics requirements are handled differently from those of the Sea King. The flight deck does not meet current standards and requirements for the Cyclone as well. On another front the mast structure also has issues with corrosion. I suspect that the cost of proper fixes and alterations would be considerable, particularlay when one considers the age of the hull, main machinery, and "hotel" systems.

With the Sea King facing retirement and the Air Force not wanting to maintain two maritime helicopters, I don't see much sympathy from them.

The Navy might make a case for their retention as pure anti-air destroyers; that is not likely to find much favour as their costs have to be absorbed from a tightening budget. The command of the task group role will be provided by four of the Halifax Class frigates which will have the necessary systems and accommodation for the necessary staff. ASW is better handled by the frigates and submarines. I think the time has come for the Tribals to decommission.

Brian

[esl]

Do we have any lighter naval helicopters to operate or naval RPVs?

[Scatari]

esl

The RCN has no lighter helos ... although there are lighter helos in the Canadian Forces, the venerable Seakings are the only aircraft currently suitable for use at sea

No naval RPVs yet ... perhaps in the future?

[esl]

esl

The RCN has no lighter helos ... although there are lighter helos in the Canadian Forces, the venerable Seakings are the only aircraft currently suitable for use at sea

No naval RPVs yet ... perhaps in the future?

Hi Scatari

Area Air defence is something all naval groups need in battle. How good are the Halifax class at area airdefence?

I think I would still keep them just for the SAM capabilty.

[Brian Wentzell]

ESL: One of the yet undiscussed issues/opportunities coming out of the Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ships program is the fact that these ships are designed (thus far) to handle lighter helicopters as well as the CH148 Cyclone (but without the hauldown device). They will be able to accept the CH 149 Cormorant on the helicopter deck but not into the hangar. If a light helicopter were acquired (marinised Bell 412 or Eurocopter equivalent?), the same could be used on the Tribals for general communications and utility duties. The Scaneagle UAV is already at sea on HMCS Charlottetown on its current deployment.

However, once the Halifax Class is modernised, the only justification for the Tribals will be the anti-air capability which the Halifax Class cannot replace, even with Evolved Seasparrow.

Brian

[Scatari]

esl:

The Halifax Class can't measure up to the 280s when it comes to air defence ... but keeping the three 280s in service just for that capability would be a very expensive luxury ... which the navy just can't afford.

[Brian Wentzell]

Scatari: I agree. The Tribals require large crews and have all gas turbine propulsion, so they are gas guzzlers compared to the Halifax Class frigates. The AAW function can be better provided by our allies which have younger ships and newer combat systems.
Brian

[Chukk]

I agree Brian that keeping the 280 just for AAW makes no sense. But I would have to argue the statement "The AAW function can be better provided by our allies which have younger ships and newer combat systems". Even though what you said is true, the moment we start basing Canada's combat capabilities on the assumption that our allies will fill in the missing part, that is a slippery slope to start down. In fact you could just swap out the word AAW and replace that with AOR.
How about changing the configuration of one or two of the new ships and having them lean heavier on the AAW side? Have one for each Coast?

Chukk

[Brian Wentzell]

Chukk: As I understand the surface combatant concept, the first three ships will be air warfare oriented ships. Thus retiring the Tribal Class would be creating a gap in capability rather than a total loss. The replacement of the AOR's could well end up creating a similar gap. Neither of these things are desirable but we are where we are.
Brian

[esl]

City and Tribal class warships were designed during the cold war ,where the primary mission seems to have been forming ASW groups to cover convoys and hunt down Soviet subs. I read an article on how this was done until the late 1960s using CVL , ASW airpower. The escorts were there to keep the CVL free to function.


http://www.aviation.technomuses.ca/assets/pdf/e_AircraftCarriers.PDF


Looking at this I surmised that by the 1970s and 80s the role of long range ASW had shifted out of necessity to Sea King helicopters operating from warship, combined with increasing capable passive sonar [towed array]. The command center became the Tribal class with additional Sea King helicopter and the ‘area air defense’ provided by the “Standard SAM”

But now the cold war is over and any ASW threat has diminished greatly so I wonder if HMCS warships need these Helicopter is as much as before?

Easiest solution would be to keep the tribal class going until replacement arrives. If that proves too costly they could transfer the VLS + missiles + Radar/gear to several suitable modified City class ships, in place of the Helicopter hanger and deck, in the process?

[Brian Wentzell]

Esl: The helicopter is a very important tool for all combatants today for ASW, surface warfare, counter terrorism, littoral, humanitarian and logistics operations. Loss of the capability is significant.

There was a concept to lengthen the Halifax Class by 10 meters to allow for the creation of a air-warfare frigate. It was not proceeded with. The new surface combatant will come in two models-the air warfare version and the general purpose frigate.

Brian

[esl]

Esl: The helicopter is a very important tool for all combatants today for ASW, surface warfare, counter terrorism, littoral, humanitarian and logistics operations. Loss of the capability is significant.

There was a concept to lengthen the Halifax Class by 10 meters to allow for the creation of a air-warfare frigate. It was not proceeded with. The new surface combatant will come in two models-the air warfare version and the general purpose frigate.

Brian

Yes but if there is going to be a 5-10 year gap between tibal class and new system this will create a vulnerability gap. Can the City class SAM system be extended and enhanced to cover this gap?

[Brian Wentzell]

Esl: Not that I know of. The Evolved Seasparrow missile is much improved over its predecessor but it is not a substitute for the Standard Mk. 2.

Brian

[esl]

Then I guess that means they have no choice but to extend the life another 5 years into 2020 time period. Thats probably the cheapest option.

[Brian Wentzell]

Esl: If the government chooses that option, I would guess that it will be HMCS Algonquin that will be the last one in commission as she would be the next to refit after completion of Athabaskan's overhaul.
Brian

[Scatari]

Just noticed that her refit is scheduled to last until December ... hopefully there will be no slippage or she might not make it out before the winter closure of the Seaway ... although given global warming, perhaps the Seaway won't ice up this year at all!!!

Tim

[Brian Wentzell]

Tim: With the US midwest in drought, let's hope the seaway and Great Lakes don't dry up before the refit is finished!
Brian

[Scatari]

Good point Brian!

Tim

[ludsie]

Great looking ship when will she be returned to service

[Brian Wentzell]

Ludsie: My guess would be next summer. Once she returns to Halifax there is much to be done to complete the refit, then trials and work ups to the intended state of readiness. Logically, HMCS Algonquin will be the next Tribal Class ship to be refitted, and probably the last to do so as the class will be retired from 2017 onward.
Brian

[Brian Wentzell]

It was reported today that the Canadian Government is looking for a tug to tow HMCS Athabaskan from the refit yard in St Catharine's, Ontario to Halifax in early December 2012 before the St. Lawrence Seaway closes for the winter.

Clearly the refit will continue once she returns to her home port.

Brian

[Brian Wentzell]

The Halifax Shipping News blog is reporting that the tugs Vigilant 1 and Lac Manitoba are standing by HMCS Athabaskan in preparation for her tow from St Catharine's, Ontario back to Halifax for completion of her refit.

Brian

[Scatari]

The Halifax Shipping News blog is reporting that the tugs Vigilant 1 and Lac Manitoba are standing by HMCS Athabaskan in preparation for her tow from St Catharine's, Ontario back to Halifax for completion of her refit.

Brian

Of possible interest (or perhaps not) - the tug Lac Manitoba was one of the tugs which recently towed Ojibwa from Hamilton to Port Burwell.

Something in the dark recesses of what's left of my mind tells me that the other tug (Vigilant I) is the ex-Canadian navy tug Glenlivet.

[Brian Wentzell]

Tim: The Halifax Shipping News blog has corrected the tug names. They will be the Ocean Delta and Andre H. The latter one rings a bell but I don't recall why. The voyage will start later this week.

Brian

[Scatari]

Tim: The Halifax Shipping News blog has corrected the tug names. They will be the Ocean Delta and Andre H. The latter one rings a bell but I don't recall why. The voyage will start later this week.

Brian

Brian:

Thanks for the update ... just goes to show that you can't trust blogs all the time I guess!?

Andre H was one of the old Foundation tugs ... Foundation Valiant ... so you may have run into her while you were lurking around the waterfront!

[Brian Wentzell]

Aye Tim.
Cheers,
Brian

[Brian Wentzell]

The blog Shipfax reports that the tow of HMCS Athabaskan got underway tonight from the start of the Welland Canal. The tug Ocean Delta is in the lead with the Andre H assisting.

Brian

[Metrate]

As of 2300Z, ATHABASKAN was approximately 40 nm south of Oshawa, downbound in the system

[BCRenown]

Thanks for the updates guys. I wonder if Atha B's appearance will have changed much owing to the refit?

[Brian Wentzell]

Monty: As the refit is not yet complete, I doubt that any changes will be seen until the work is completed. In view of her age, I doubt that any significant structural changes were undertaken. There would likely be electronic updates and some replacement of critical obsolete items. This could be her last refit.

Brian

[esl]

How long will this refit allow HMCS Athabaskan to last?

[Metrate]

ATHABASKAN was approaching Clayton NY around 2100Z today

[Brian Wentzell]

ESL: I suspect the refit will last a few more months.
Brian

[Scatari]

How long will this refit allow HMCS Athabaskan to last?

esl:

She, her sister ships and the CPFs are supposed to be replaced by the "Single Class Surface Combatant" ships ... given the glacial pace at which that project (and all the other RCN ship-building projects) are progressing, I suspect Athabaskan will see a 50th anniversary still in service.

As she was commissioned on November 30th, 1972, that's only ten years away!

[Brian Wentzell]

Tonight HMCS Athabaskan, under tow, is off Kingston, Ontario. There are pictures on the blog Halifax Shipping News of the tow. She appears to be without most of her electronic sensors but wearing a new coat of paint.

Brian

[BCRenown]

Thanks Brian. The last time I saw Athabaskan she was leaving St. Johns on the 70th anniversary of the sinking of Bismarck - 27/05/11 - and looking rather run down after services overseas. To me, Algonquin always seemed to be the most well kept ship in the fleet - at least in photos.

[Metrate]

I noted today that Athabaskan is no longer on the St Lawrence Seaway plot, I am assuming that she is beyond Montreal enroute 'Slacker' for the rest of her refit, She sailed in March minus her combat and weapons suites. At least her shipside seen in the Shipping Blog would make a CBM proud.

[esl]

What happens to the crew when a ship has gone into refit?

[Blackfly]

They go to the shore office and work from there. Attend career coursing and refresher coursing. Most will be sent off to other units to support the manning shortfalls within the fleet and ashore establishments.

[esl]

They go to the shore office and work from there. Attend career coursing and refresher coursing. Most will be sent off to other units to support the manning shortfalls within the fleet and ashore establishments.

Thanks Blackfly.

What if the refit is something that was to last years?

[Blackfly]

Same thing. The current CO / XO / Coxn will usually change out as well as alot of the officers. Most of the senior section Chiefs will stay on through the refit.

We haven't seen long refits since the 280s went in for TRUMP.

Atha-Bee is almost back to Halifax. Stopped in a port along the way to avoid a storm coming.

[Brian Wentzell]

Blackfly: I think Athabaskan and her tugs were, and perhaps still are, storm stayed in Sydney, NS. Another severe winter storm will hit Nova Scotia tonight/tomorrow. It is that time of year.
Brian

[Brian Wentzell]

Blackfly: Yesterday the tow of Athabaskan from Sydney, NS resumed with near disastrous consequences. Weather was still rough and the tow line parted off Scaterie Island, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. See the blog Shipfax for more details.

Scaterie Island is the scene of many shipwrecks, the latest being the MV Miner, a decommissioned Great Lake bulk carrier that was being towed to Turkey for scrapping in 2011. She remains aground and is being ripped apart by Mother Nature while a salvager appears incapable of doing its job.

In the Athabaskan event, the Canadian Forces sent a CH149 Cormorant Search and Rescue helicopter to pick up a naval person and a tug crewman from the towboat and put them aboard the destroyer. They then re-attached the towline from the tug and the ships returned to Sydney to wait out the latest storm that is pounding Atlantic Canada today. During the exercise the second (trailing) tug had maintained the trailing cable connection so the destroyer was not totally adrift; however, it was a hairraising experience for all.

It would not have been easy for the Commander of the RCN to explain to the political and military leadership how one-third of the destroyer fleet was lost whilst under tow from a refit yard to HMC Dockyard, Halifax during the winter. The alternative course of action was to leave the ship for the winter in the refit yard for the yard work to be completed before her return to Halifax for the final work and trials in the Spring of 2013.

We will see how the next tow attempt proceeds.

Brian

[Blackfly]

Well, lets hope her tow goes better than the tow of the St Laurent.

At least the delay of the ship arriving delays duty watches for the crew.

[Brian Wentzell]

Blackfly: HMCS Athabaskan is now secured alongside at the Osprey Pier in North Sydney, Nova Scotia. The next move depends upon weather and the appetite of the Canadian Government to allow the present towing company to continue the tow given the issues that have arisen.

There is a picture of Athabaskan secured alongside in North Sydney in the Halifax Shipping News blog.
Brian

[Blackfly]

Yes, I saw the pics of the holes in her side. I think that might be around the galley area or 1 mess.

An Athabaskan I know who lives in the Eastern Passage saw an ocean going tug go to sea today.....

[Brian Wentzell]

Blackfly: The Shipfax blog has a close-up picture today of the port side of Athabaskan. In the area you refer to, the hull looks as if it has perforated in more than a dozen spots. While small in each case, one would expect a prudent shipowner would require temporary patching before leaving port. The question of who pays for the emergency repairs can be sorted out later.

Brian

[Metrate]

Brian,
Many thanks for the latest news wrt the Athabaskan. I viewed the phot in the blog and in addition to the hull penetration, there appears to be some buckling in the boot topping as well. I am on a contract in Marlant for the latter half of this month. I will be interesting to see her close up.
Yours aye,
Terry

[Brian Wentzell]

Terry: Mac Mackay (the Shipfax blogger and CBC's Harbour Watcher in Halifax) has alluded to the crease in the hull and the possible internal damage. Given the age of Athabaskan (40 years since first commissioning) and that this was likely her last major refit, the repair of any serious damage would have to be weighed carefully in against the cost, time and effectiveness of those repairs. The whole episode is not a creation of the RCN; however, the Navy will bear the consequences of the event either by the delay of her return to the fleet or the loss of her to the fleet.

While HMC Ships Halifax and Federicton will have the task force command facilities once they complete trials (in 2014) post their Felex/Halifax Class Modernization, there is no substitute for the AAW capability of the three Tribal Class destroyers. Iroquois is operational on the East Coast but she is now the oldest destroyer in active service in the world. Algonquin is on the West Coast and is likely the next scheduled for refit.

One hopes Athabaskan will be back!

Brian

[Brian Wentzell]

Terry: The RCN has sent a team to Sydney Harbour to survey the damage to and condition of HMCS Athabaskan following the towing incident of last week. Once this is determined and, presumably, the holes above the waterline are patched, she will resume her tow to Halifax. It is possible the Irving family tugboat operation will take on the tow using coastal tugs. Time will tell!

Brian

[esl]

Are there any pictures of just how bad this damage is?

[Brian Wentzell]

ESL: You will find pictures on the Shipfax Blog.
Brian

[Scatari]

Are there any pictures of just how bad this damage is?

esl:

A good closeup shot at this link to the CBC news:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2013/01/03/ns-athabaskan-damage-navy.html

[Metrate]

Tim,
many thanks for the CDC link, me thinks the damage was caused by one of the tugs coming close aboard her, note the paint residue on her hull
Cheers
Terry

[Brian Wentzell]

Terry and Tim: The Halifax Chronicle Herald reported today that the cost of the work done in the St, Catharines, Ontario shipyard was CAD 26.7 million. This was CAD 5 million more than anticipated due to the discovery of more rust and wear than had been anticipated. This extended the refit in the yard by two weeks which led to the decision to tow the ship back to Halifax. The contract for the tow was over CAD 500,000. The damage to the ship is being assessed and there will be additional costs for assessment, repair and more tug work.

Brian

[Brian Wentzell]

Tim and Terry: The Navy's public relations machine has announced that temporary repairs have been completed to HMCS Athabaskan and Atlantic Towing Limited (an Irving Group company) has been engaged to tow the ship to Halifax. The tow is dependent on suitable weather and will proceed in the near future. The two tow boats are now in Sydney, Nova Scotia.

Brian

[Scatari]

Tim and Terry: The Navy's public relations machine has announced that temporary repairs have been completed to HMCS Athabaskan and Atlantic Towing Limited (an Irving Group company) has been engaged to tow the ship to Halifax. The tow is dependent on suitable weather and will proceed in the near future. The two tow boats are now in Sydney, Nova Scotia.

Brian

Thanks for the update Brian.

Hopefully the old girl will make it to Halifax safely to continue her refit.

[Brian Wentzell]

Tim: Tonight I noticed three pictures of HMCS Athabaskan adrift last week off Glace Bay, Nova Scotia on the Halifax Shipping News website. The two Ocean Group tugs are obviously working to recover the tow while the Canadian Coast Guard Ship William Alexander (I think it is her) watches the event. The sea was calmer than I anticipated. One picture shows the smaller tug alongside the destroyer and that was probably when the damage occurred. The CBC has pictures of the patched up Athabaskan on its website.

Brian

[Brian Wentzell]

Tim: The Halifax Shipping News reports, with photographs to provide evidence, that HMCS Athabaskan is once again under tow from Sydney Harbour to Halifax as of 0800 Hours (AST) this morning, The tugs Atlantic Fir and Atlantic Elm expect to arrive with thw destroyer tomorrow (Monday) in Halifax. Hopefully this saga will then be over.

Brian

[Brian Wentzell]

Tim: HMCS Athabaskan arrived, safely under tow, this morning in Halifax. For pictures of her arrival please see the halifax Shipping News blog.

Brian

[Metrate]

Brian,
I saw here being towed into harbour yesterday as I was on my way to Navy HQ. Later n theday iI saw she was secured alongside at the south end of the yard, where the MCDVs are berthed. I heard no comments/idle gossip about her all day in the HQ
Cheer

[Brian Wentzell]

Terry: I would guess that the navy engineers will be going thorugh the ship "with a fine tooth comb" to analyze her condition and repair requirements. Time will tell.

Brian

[BCRenown]

Thanks for the updates Brian. Hopefully the cost of repairing Athabaskan will be less than the cost of sinking Huron and she will be back in service soon.

[Blackfly]

Good time for those who want to save her as a museum to start fund raising now.

[BCRenown]

No way. Plenty of time to run around fundraising. Athabaskan must go back in service even if it means we have to scrap those damn subs to do so.

[Blackfly]

Well it takes years. Fund raising, getting people onboard with the idea, corporate sponsorship, a place to park her, environmental clean up of the ship, moving it, setting it up and then running it.

I don't think she will be around very long.

[Scatari]

Well it takes years. Fund raising, getting people onboard with the idea, corporate sponsorship, a place to park her, environmental clean up of the ship, moving it, setting it up and then running it.

I don't think she will be around very long.

Blackfly:

Can't agree with you on that point.

Unless the damage suffered during the towing fiasco is structurally significant, the RCN can't afford (in terms of operational necessity) to dispose of her until the Single Class Surface Combatant project actually puts hulls into the water.

Were I a betting man, I would guess that she will see a 50th anniversary in RCN service.

Call me an optimist!

Cheers!

[Brian Wentzell]

Tim: Apparently there is a plan within the RCN and Department of National Defence to start retiring the Tribal class in 2017. My guess is that the retirement order will be Iroquois, Athabaskan and then Algonquin by 2020. While the new surface combatant project office is now up and running, it seems unrealistic to expect the three new AAW destroyers/frigates to be at sea before 2023-4.

The Department has not announced the retirement plan but there are references to its existence in another Canadian military blog.

Brian

[Pat in Halifax]

SCSC (by name) died a slow death and the program is now known as CSC (Canadian Surface Combatant). True, there is a plan for Iroquois class retirement but it has yet to be released publicly. The capability currently residing in the Iroquois class as TGCC will be gapped by several Halifax class being seconded in this role. As for the first CSC, nothing confirmed but your estimate may be a tad tardy.
Watch this page-It should start getting populated in the coming months as industry is now getting involved:
http://www.materiel.forces.gc.ca/en/cscp-pd.page?

By the way, pedantic? yes, but the TRIBAL class of destroyers were destroyers developed during and immediately following WW II. These four (now three) vessels were never officially called Tribals and iaw RCN parlance, are referred to by the lead ship's name; Iroquois class. Similarily, CPFs (this was the name of the project when in development in the 1980s) are the Halifax class.
That said, crews of the four Iroquois class wear(wore) the moniker 'Tribal' as a term of endearment.

[Scatari]

SCSC (by name) died a slow death and the program is now known as CSC (Canadian Surface Combatant). True, there is a plan for Iroquois class retirement but it has yet to be released publicly. The capability currently residing in the Iroquois class as TGCC will be gapped by several Halifax class being seconded in this role. As for the first CSC, nothing confirmed but your estimate may be a tad tardy.
Watch this page-It should start getting populated in the coming months as industry is now getting involved:
http://www.materiel.forces.gc.ca/en/cscp-pd.page?

By the way, pedantic? yes, but the TRIBAL class of destroyers were destroyers developed during and immediately following WW II. These four (now three) vessels were never officially called Tribals and iaw RCN parlance, are referred to by the lead ship's name; Iroquois class. Similarily, CPFs (this was the name of the project when in development in the 1980s) are the Halifax class.
That said, crews of the four Iroquois class wear(wore) the moniker 'Tribal' as a term of endearment.

Pat:

Great to have you back on line - your posts have been missed!

My apologies re the use of the acronym SCSC - you are of course entirely correct in the new name for the project.

Re the Iroquois Class - we always used to refer to them simply as "the 280s."

[Brian Wentzell]

Pat: It is great to have you back on line. Cmdre (ret'd) Eric Lehre has posted a short piece in the Broadsides blog on HMCS Halifax, one of the TGCC equipped ships. He was impressed by what he saw on his recent tour of her. He feels they will succeed in this supplementary role.

Once Halifax and her three sisters are ready for deployment the justification for continued service of the Iroquois Class diminishes to the AAW role. One wonders if this is sufficent cause for their further service if we believe in NATO or coalition operations.

To keep the AAW art alive perhaps one should be retained as a training ship where the AAW skills could be retained at sea and not just in simulators; however, even that becomes more inefficient as time goes on due to hull and systems life.


Brian

[Brian Wentzell]

Gentlemen: I noted today that HMCS Athabaskan is now flying the Canadian flag (our Naval Ensign) and the Canadian Naval Jack. It would appear that the crew is getting established on board and the dockyard staff are completing the refit and repairs to the towing damage. This is good news.

Brian

[Brian Wentzell]

Gentlemen: There is a very recent photo of HMCS Athabaskan undergoing post refit work and collision repairs in the Halifax Shipping News blog. You will have to scroll down a ways as lots of stuff is happening in the harbour at the moment.

Note that the post collision hull repairs continue, the work having started a few weeks ago. The 76 mm gun has been installed, the Canadian Flag is now worn as the Canadian Naval Jack, and the flag of the Commander, Canadian Fleet Atlantic is being flown, despite the ship requiring a considerable amount of work before she can start trials or return to operational service. I guess an office is an office!

Brian