Riddle of the Sands

[Maritime Michael Ian]

G'day all!

Have any of you read, what was once called the Yachtsmans Classic, "The Riddle of the Sands" by Erskine Childers?? The story of the voyage of the yacht Dulcibella, pre-WW1, and of how it might be possible for the Germans to invade this country by barge, marshalled from all the small harbours and bays in and around the North German Coast.

The book is a great read, though the style is a bit dated, but that said it's a good yarn. I have a personal interest in Dulcibella. She ended up at the Lymington Slipway, at Lymington Hampshire, prior to WW2 having been brought across from Cowes. She was pretty rotten and breaking up so she was hauled up on land and deposited next to one of the big yacht construction sheds at the yard. As a nipper I used to play aboard her, and like most kids who played about in boats, used to dream about being at sea.

There was a move, in about 1947/48 to try and preserve her as a memorial to Erskin Childers memory. He had been executed by the Irish Government (not the British as has sometimes been alleged) for gun running for the IRA against, not us ( for a change) but the Irish Govt. My father was one of those involved in trying to preserve her. Her state,however, was too far gone also at that time no-one had any idea how to really preserve wooden vessels so she was cut up, using my father's Diston(American) saw. A portion of her keel was mounted and sent to Childers widow, Molly, in the USA together with a list of people who had been involved. A couple of months later my father received a personal letter from Mrs Childers expressing her sincere thanks.

There was a good film made of the story, though the ending depicted Dulcibella being rammed by a German boat and sunk.... so called artistic licence I suppose, but at least I know the realstory of her ending!

Regards

Ian

[The Sailor]

Yes I have Ian and I have the movie here too, but only on VCR.
Great yarn. Great movie. Michael York the actor.

[John Brown]

I've not read the book Ian but I have seen the film, also starring Simon McCorkindale.

Incidentally, do you have any pictures from the days when the old flying boat base was operating down near Hythe? Perhaps you even have some from the days when Mitchell was chasing and then winning the Schneider Trophy?

Regards...John

[dennis a feary]

Ian, a little late I know, but I have indeed read `The Riddle of the Sands'. Marvellous book which having been written in 1902 predicted the 1st World War 12 years before its happening - also that the main threat to England would be on the EAST coast & not from the usual area of the Channel - Germany being the enemy & not the usual Frog's !!
Some years ago I holiday'd in Germany & when around the N. German coast & visited all the little towns (Benserseil etc) mentioned in the book / film.

Regards Sadsac

[mik43]

Agree with all the comments above, it is an excellent read and as you say the film was good as well. even with the artistic ending.

Mik

[Maritime Michael Ian]

G'day all!

Further to my original posting I had an email a couple of days ago from Erskine Childer's Granddaughter who told me that she and her husband.... a retired RN Officer... had recently returned from their annual visit to Dublin to see how the restoration of the other Childer's vessel "Asgard" was progressing. Asgard was built for Erskine Childers who gave the yacht to his wife Molly.

I have always regretted not having written to Erskin Childers Jnr... the son of Erskine and Molly... who, of course, became President of Ireland when he was in office, especially in view of the letter that my late father had received from Molly Childers.

Ian

[spruso]

One of my favourite movies. I also read the book. Even though the book was written in an old style it was still a good read. Both highly recommended.

Cheers
Bruce

[Don Boyer]

Here in America one would have to scour the library or inter-library loan to find a copy of The Riddle of the Sands. I am only familiar with it through several history books that deal with the run up to WWI and the novels and other tracts written at various times predicting the path Germany would take to war. Almost all agree The Riddle is the best of them. They mostly discuss the "scare tactics" versus those who had their heads buried in the sand over the possibility of war, much like the run-up to WWII.

One can't find the movie over here either, and what's worse is some Euroweenie deciding that DVD formats in Europe had to be differently formatted than American ones and not interchangeable (certainly Britain had no hand in that travesty!! Tell me it ain't so!)

The book is on my list of "must hunt this down via ABE books someday." It is one of those non-military books that serves as an indicator of the thinking of the time.

What I did not know was that the yacht was a real yacht, and most importantly that it was the Irish that had Childers strung up, not the British. I don't think any of the books I remember reading having mentioned that clearly, for whatever reason. (Richard K. Massie's "Dreadnought" comes to mind.) Of course, it's been some years since I've read in that area, since I focus mainly on WWII in the Pacific, so I may have overlooked something.

Now that I know that fact, anyone out there care to explain why Childer's real sympathies never came out in the later history books? One would think a historical writer would go to lengths to explain the sympathies of one who was on the English side over the "Irish Question."

Very enlightening thread here...I will have to add a note to my copy of "Dreadnought."

Thanks!

[Guz rating]

Hi Don,
In answer to your question Erskine Childers was Was an Englishman. His mother and father died when he was quiet young. He went to live with his mother's family the Barton's in Wicklow County Dublin. He returned to school in England and then on to Trinity College Cambridge to study law. He wrote "Riddle of The Sands" 1901/1903 He also married his wife Molly around this time. His Father in law Dr Hamilton Osgood from the USA had a 28 ton yacht built his daughter and Childers "The Asgard". Which he used to smuggle guns from Germany to Howth Co Dublin 1914. At the start of W.W.1 he joined the Royal Navy as intelligence officer. He served as an instructor on board HMS Engadine. and later on the HMS Ben-my-Chree in the Gallipoli campaign earning himself the D.S.C.

He returned to Ireland in 1919 He made contact with Michael Collins and Eamon de Valera at this time. Childers was made Director of Publicity for the first Irish parliament . He was secretary general to at the Anglo Irish Treaty. He was opposed to the Irish leaders taking an oath of allegiance to the King. Childers and de Valera were the prime movers of starting the civi in war in Ireland. Childers was arrested be the Irish government and tried and found guilty of being in procession of a gun. A violation of the Emergency Powers Resolution he was sentenced to death. He was executed by firing squad.

Regards
Alan

[romft1945]

Here in America one would have to scour the library or inter-library loan to find a copy of The Riddle of the Sands. I am only familiar with it through several history books that deal with the run up to WWI and the novels and other tracts written at various times predicting the path Germany would take to war. Almost all agree The Riddle is the best of them. They mostly discuss the "scare tactics" versus those who had their heads buried in the sand over the possibility of war, much like the run-up to WWII.

One can't find the movie over here either, and what's worse is some Euroweenie deciding that DVD formats in Europe had to be differently formatted than American ones and not interchangeable (certainly Britain had no hand in that travesty!! Tell me it ain't so!)

The book is on my list of "must hunt this down via ABE books someday." It is one of those non-military books that serves as an indicator of the thinking of the time.

What I did not know was that the yacht was a real yacht, and most importantly that it was the Irish that had Childers strung up, not the British. I don't think any of the books I remember reading having mentioned that clearly, for whatever reason. (Richard K. Massie's "Dreadnought" comes to mind.) Of course, it's been some years since I've read in that area, since I focus mainly on WWII in the Pacific, so I may have overlooked something.

Now that I know that fact, anyone out there care to explain why Childer's real sympathies never came out in the later history books? One would think a historical writer would go to lengths to explain the sympathies of one who was on the English side over the "Irish Question."

Very enlightening thread here...I will have to add a note to my copy of "Dreadnought."

Thanks!

Don look in amazon books on there web site they loads of the books paperback hardcopies new and secondhand ROM

[Guz rating]

G'day all!

Have any of you read, what was once called the Yachtsmans Classic, "The Riddle of the Sands" by Erskine Childers?? The story of the voyage of the yacht Dulcibella, pre-WW1, and of how it might be possible for the Germans to invade this country by barge, marshalled from all the small harbours and bays in and around the North German Coast.

The book is a great read, though the style is a bit dated, but that said it's a good yarn. I have a personal interest in Dulcibella. She ended up at the Lymington Slipway, at Lymington Hampshire, prior to WW2 having been brought across from Cowes. She was pretty rotten and breaking up so she was hauled up on land and deposited next to one of the big yacht construction sheds at the yard. As a nipper I used to play aboard her, and like most kids who played about in boats, used to dream about being at sea.

There was a move, in about 1947/48 to try and preserve her as a memorial to Erskin Childers memory. He had been executed by the Irish Government (not the British as has sometimes been alleged) for gun running for the IRA against, not us ( for a change) but the Irish Govt. My father was one of those involved in trying to preserve her. Her state,however, was too far gone also at that time no-one had any idea how to really preserve wooden vessels so she was cut up, using my father's Diston(American) saw. A portion of her keel was mounted and sent to Childers widow, Molly, in the USA together with a list of people who had been involved. A couple of months later my father received a personal letter from Mrs Childers expressing her sincere thanks.

There was a good film made of the story, though the ending depicted Dulcibella being rammed by a German boat and sunk.... so called artistic licence I suppose, but at least I know the realstory of her ending!

Regards

Ian

Hello Ian

I enjoyed reading your account of what happened to the Dulcibella, but it was not in the Dulcibella but in the Asgard he ran the guns into Howth in 1914. The same guns used against British troops in 1916 in the Easter Rising. At that time Ireland was part of the UK. He fought on the side on the IRA in the Civil War, he was shot in 1922 for having a gun. The real reason, they thought he was a British spy but could not prove it. In papers released under the freedom of information act
it is suggested that the mole may have been Molly Childers. Churchill said of Childers that he did more damage to Britain then any Englishman who ever lived.

Regards

Alan