Is there a Place for Naval Fiction Here?

[Hookie]

Hi folks,

Just to reiterate the title..
Is there a place for Naval Fiction? Some of it is rather good of course. ;)

Regards
Hookie.

[herakles]

I'm certain there is. This is a rich source of material.

What do others think?

[Harley]

I'm all for it. Unless the bandwith dictates otherwise, I suggest that each book or series of books get a topic, regardless of it being fiction/non-fiction?

Harley

[kc]

I would think there would be a lot of interest in naval fiction here. Please feel free to begin threads. :)

[Hookie]

Okay then Folks,

As a shot across the bow:

Historical 'wooden wall' books aside for now, what do forumites think about the work of Douglas Reeman?

(I'll start in the 'present' and work back through the various maritme novelists. I.e. Forrester who wrote WWll fiction as well as the Hornblower books. And there is Monsarrat and there is Maclean, et al.

Monsarrat also departed from the norm, by writing 'The Master Mariner' novels; a continuing story of a lost soul, travelling through time and various theatres of maritime conflict, from Trafalgar to WWII. (A more serious Blackadder.)

Is there still a market for Naval Wartime fiction or does it need to be dressed up in spiritual/occult background?

Is there a more significant book than 'Send Down a Dove', by Charles MacHardy?



Regards

Hookie :)

[astraltrader]

Douglas Reeman writes exciting naval war fiction, which although not ever literary masterpieces are always a damn good read! He often draws on his World War 2 experiences whilst in the Coastal Forces of the Royal Navy.
A critique could be made of the somewhat predictable formula which the author tends to apply to all his books; they all include a "hero who grows up", an "intimidating figure of authority", a "romantic interest to keep the readers happy", as well as a set of action set-pieces which escalate to a final confrontation and of course a "group of B-list characters who will be killed off at predictable moments!"
Not withstanding all of this his very popularity is testament to the readabilty of his Naval fiction.

For those of you who like Naval fiction, but set in the time of Nelson - you cannot do much better than read the set of books following the naval career of a Richard Bolitho. The books have a similar formula to Reeman`s - only even more blood-thirsty! This is hardly surprising because they are written by Alexander Kent - which is the pen-name of........you guessed it - Douglas Reeman!!
His books are very comparable with the Hornblower books - again not literary masterpieces but well written and always gripping with plenty of battle-scenes.
For those of you who like Naval fiction of this period at its literary best - brimming over with accurate detail of life as it was in the late 18th century - then Patrick O`Brian is your man - with his twenty volumes in the highly respected Aubrey-Maturin series...
However be warned some of his books can be hard going at times and can get bogged down with over-elaborate detail...

[herakles]

However be warned some of his books can be hard going at times and can get bogged down with over-elaborate detail...

Ah! But such delightful detail!

[Jim in Annville]

Personaly I find all of Reenan's books to be good reads. I own everyone of the Bolitho books. Another good fictional writer is Dudley Pope.

[astraltrader]

That is what I said Jim! Has anybody read the Alexander Fullerton WW1 and WW2 novels detailing the career of Nicholas Everard?

[Jim in Annville]

Yes I have read several of them. They are ok. Not as good as Rennan IMHO.

[astraltrader]

OK Jim thanks for that. [BTW it is Reeman!]

[Harley]

It's a shame this part of the forum is so quiet. There are so many people here who are well read-up we must have read thousands of naval books between us!

Back to naval fiction, I may have mentioned these two books before, maybe not. They rank as two of the best in my library and I pity any library which doesn't have them on their shelves.

"The Winds of War" and "War and Remembrance" by Herman Wouk, a two-part novel are in one word, Epic. Nearly two thousand pages of prose tells the story of a U.S. Navy family which gets caught up in nearly every theatre of war (even before the U.S. entry after Pearl Harbour).

To quote from an Amazon review;

"These novels, which are really one, extended, story cover World War II from antecedents to conclusion from the American viewpoint. Wouk uses the device of having one set of characters--in this case Naval Officer "Pug" Henry and his family--continually turn up in key situations so as to allow the novel to cover the entire epoch while having a continuous, human-level plot. ("War and Peace", obviously an inspiration to Wouk, is probably the most famous example of this approach.) Without this device the writer is forced to chose between taking a microscopic view of the period, or ending up with a set of connected stories without a unifying, human-level plot, or interrupting the novel with historical asides. The downside of this device is that it relies on a series of improbable events and coincidences to get a key character into each historical situation important to the story. Readers then need to suspend disbelief on this point to enjoy the novel; those that can't are going to be disappointed."

For a long time I've had to suspend disbelief to write a lot of tripe some people write in history books. If you want to read an exceptional story, this is the book for you. If you want to read a story AND learn about the Second World War at the same time, then there is absolutely nothing better than these two books.

So many events are covered by a main character being present that it would ruin the book to list them all. Needless to say Pearl Harbour, the Fall of Singapore, Midway, Leyte Gulf, Tehran are just some of the incidents covered in a fair amount of detail.

Harley

[doug.birch]

HI to all-re, Naval Fiction.
Although I am not Australian by birth, I think that Australian author J.E.Macdonnell is as good asthey come. He tells it from the upper & lower deck for he was a serving sailor & officer, both in RN & RNA doug. birch

[Stan.J]

I have just finished the eighth book in the saga of Kydd."The Admirals daughter." The first book was called "Kydd" I have enjoyed every one of them. They are written by Julian Stockwin and start with Kydd being pressed into service. If you begin with the first one it gets you into the series.
Cheers,Stan

[herakles]

I'm a little surprised no-one has mentioned C.S. Forester here.

For me, it's only debatable whether he or O'Brian is the best author of this genre.

[astraltrader]

I must admit that after reading three of them I was greatly disappointed with Alexander Fullerton...

[Jim in Annville]

I also thought Fullertons books stunk. I have read a couple of the "Kydd" books thought they were ok. my biggest problem is that I was reading them out of order.

[astraltrader]

Interesting. Mind you if you want a brilliant book detailing WW2 naval action, then look no further than HMS Ulysses by Alaistar Maclean.
A fantastic story of life on the convoys to Russia. Easily as good as Cruel Sea by Nicholas Monserrat IMO...Haunting and unputdownable.

[jgrinnell]

Interesting to read all these postings, most books of which I think I've read with varying interest - some I've not so thanks and I shall try and read them. My bookshelf is full of the stuff but I have to say that Reeman (who I first read as A Kent for Bolitho) is my personal tops for a good old fashioned yarn. However, for some good stories the autobiography of Admiral Cunningham's ("A Sailor's Oddeysey") is a good 'un. Personally, Warren and James' "The Admiralty Regrets" concerning the loss of HMS Thetis in Liverpool Bay just before WW2 is the most provocative read - as the story is true.
Regards
John

[starshell]

Just found this interesting line of discussion and hope that naval fiction eventually gets a forum of its own rather than being limited to a single thread.

I have to confess I am mainly a non-fiction reader and tend to only buy novels which match my non-fiction interests. Like others on here I was brought up on a healthy teenager diet of Douglas Reeman and Alistair MacLean with a bit of Clive Cussler thrown in for some real maritime fantasy! I would have to agree that HMS Ulysses by MacLean is one of the 'must reads' along with The Cruel Sea.

I got four volumes into the Patrick O'Brien series and stalled. While I enjoyed the often witty dialogue between well developed characters the storylines were starting to become repetative and, as someone else pointed out, the lengthy descriptions of the technical aspects of sailing became a little tedious to read. The prospect of finishing the whole series was too daunting, but I may return to them later.

Another writer who hasn't been mentioned so far is Philip McCutchan. He wrote a prolific number of military novels covering may periods in history, but of particular relevance here would be his Victorian Navy series covering the career of the fictional Lt. St. Vincent Halfhyde, his WWII convoy series following the career of the fictional Convoy Commodore John Mason Kemp RNVR and the WWII series following the career of the fictional Ordinary Seaman Donald Cameron on various warships. In style he is fairly close to Douglas Reeman, but doesn't quite have Reeman's flair for the dramatic. The characters are very well developed across each series and the novels are well worth trying out as they can be picked up quite cheaply.

Mark

[astraltrader]

HI Mark - I agree with you 100% about Patrick O`Brien. Admirable detail and technical accuracy but sadly deficient in terms of excitement.

[herakles]

It's O'Brian by the way. Though his name used to be Russ.

I certainly don't agree with these sentiments. I regard him as arguably the finest author of the 20th century and judging by the sales of his books, quite a few agree with me. And his award of a CBE and an honorary doctorate add further support to my contention.

One of the extraordinary aspects of his writings is the way he perfectly captures the language of the day. This will prove to be difficult for some less able readers.

His attention to detail of life aboard a ship of the line has never been surpassed though Forrester comes close.

As well as his delightful Aubrey/Maturin books, he showed himself to be a master of biography, notably with his life of Joseph Banks and Picasso.

Whilst his personal life left something to be desired, as an author he stands head and shoulders above the rest.

It's not just a question of taste. One simply has to understand that this man reached levels of literacy achieved by few and exceeded by none.

Lastly, we should be grateful to him for allowing us to get to grips with the days of sailing, a glorious period of history and one that Great Britain excelled in.

[astraltrader]

Yes I know you have told me many times how much you like his books.
I was replying to Mark whose opinion I happened to be interested in.

[herakles]

Yes I know you have told me many times how much you like his books.
I was replying to Mark whose opinion I happened to be interested in.

For pity's sake! I wasn't replying to you! What the hell do I care about your opinions?

I was replying to the comments made about O'Brian.

[astraltrader]

I gave my opinion on the writer. You replied with the comment that you didnt agree with those sentiments and I am expected to realise that you were

replying to someone else!

Your memory is obviously playing up if you cant remember mentioning to me on many occasions your liking for O`Brian. For pitys sake!

I agree with much of what you wrote anyway. The one important thing you made no reference to was the point I was making regarding a lack of excitement in his books.

I am hardly alone in that opinion.

As Mark alluded to O`Brian is an excellent writer, but he found his books to be tedious at times. I have to agree with him.

I most certainly do not find his writing difficult because of his frequent useage of the language of the day.

I am grateful that in writers such as Forrester and Kent the days of sailing as well as a glorious period of British history are celebrated...

[herakles]

No. I was taking up Mark's point that he found the books tedious. I rarely read your posts at all.

But I have read the last one. Lacking excitement? You should read his description of Anson taking the Acapulco or of rounding the Horn. The man's books abound with excitement.

[astraltrader]

You are odd. You are often making comments about my posts. I have often wished you didnt read them. Its that memory of yours playing up again!

And as for I rarely read your posts at all. But I have read the last one...priceless!

[starshell]

As I said....I will give the O'Brian books another try at a later date. The age of sail is not my main naval interest and this is probably why I failed to get further than four books into the series on the first go. My main research interests are WWII RN and Ironclads and my fictional reading tends to match those interests.

Mark

[trevflstn]

Personally I have to agree with the comments on HMS Ullysses. My dad was on the russian convoys during the war and said it probably came closest to describing the conditions.
I am also a fan of John Wintons comedy books featuring the "Artful Bodger" (We joined the navy and sequels). I have just reread them all and although somewhat dated found them good fun.

[battlestar]

G'Day All

Well now, you guys have given me loads of new authors to look at.:)

But I'm going to throw a few of my favorite authors into the mix. Granted, some only have elements of naval warfare in them, but I like them.

Stephen Coontz, Larry Bond, Tom Clancy, Barret Tillman, Mark Joseph. An Aussie author, Micheal O'Conner, wrote a great book called 'An Act Of War' (It rare to find now, I had to hunt down my copy twice from people that liked it too much.) that has RAN surface and submarine operations.

David Poyer's books on the modern USN are great, and when I read them, timely, as they usually cover current events in a fictional world.

[astraltrader]

Ian - if you like Coontz and Clancy - have you read any by Dale Brown??

[battlestar]

G'Day All

Ian - if you like Coontz and Clancy - have you read any by Dale Brown??

OH YES! But I put Dale Brown into the Air Force category, along with other great airforce authors like Henry Zeybel, Mark Berert, Richard Herman Jr. For land based warfare Harold Coyle, both modern and the civil war are worth the time.:D

But just to bowl a googly at you...I love alternate reality books, and the way war is written by Harry Turtledove in his 'American Saga' series that stretches from the Civil War to the end of WWII, and Billy Birmingham's World War 2.1 - 3 series is as good as the other authors I have mentioned here!:)

[astraltrader]

To be fair I have always viewed Coontz as a writer with a leaning toward Airforce themes. I haven`t heard of the last two writers you mentioned - but I will keep my eyes open for them...

I have heard of Billy Birmingham the sports writer/cricket writer guy - but I presume he is not the same Birmingham?

[battlestar]

G'Day All

I have heard of Billy Birmingham the sports writer/cricket writer guy - but I presume he is not the same Birmingham?

Ok, I stuffed up. It JOHN Birmingham. Sorry.:eek:

Coontz, in my mind, is naval aviation, which is a different type of flying.

I just had a book dropped on me. Nicholas Monsarrat's H.M.S. Marlborough Will Enter Harbour, a 1949 edition. Looking forward to reading it.

[Jan Steer]

I like Monserrats novels and I also enjoyed Mallilieu's "Very Ordinary Seaman".
Whilst at sea in the sixties I read "The Red Sailor" which I enjoyed but for the life of me I can't remember who wrote it. There must be others that I've forgotten over time and to be honest I much prefer non-fiction books about the age of sail. I'm reading one about Cochrane at the moment which is very gripping. I write some naval fiction myself but my stuff is more about people than ships.
regards
Jan

[james_harvey]

I have been reading douglas reeman for a few years now, finding it dificult to get hold of his books.

My only complaint, the hero is usually a VC winner or other decoration.

regards

James

[astraltrader]

I am surprised you are finding it hard to get hold of Douglas Reeman books as even our local WH Smiths is full of them.

The trouble with Reeman is although always a good read, his writing is very formulaic. Once you have read a few of them they begin IMO to seem the same...

[Dave Hutson]

Agree comments on Douglas Reeman/Alexander Kent - but still good works.

For period reading I have found the Julian Stockwin novels are intriguing and historically educational in addition to being damn good yarns.

Up to date works on Nuclear Boats "Patrick Robinson" writes a good story.

[TACKLINE]

Interesting. Mind you if you want a brilliant book detailing WW2 naval action, then look no further than HMS Ulysses by Alaistar Maclean.
A fantastic story of life on the convoys to Russia. Easily as good as Cruel Sea by Nicholas Monserrat IMO...Haunting and unputdownable.

I agree,a great story. At the end,Ulysses heading at speed to the depths,propelled by her screws, which were still turning rapidly. Stark.


.

[james_harvey]

My local WH Smiths only stock 4 reeman books, i have found the Works occassionally get a few in, I think i've read about 60% of his books.

I agree about the comment that once you have read a few they all read the same, Hero with problems, overcomes them meets girl, they fall in love, hero wins the day.

Regards

James

[jim7966]

I would also like to suggest the works (three in the series) by Ronald Bassett.

The Tinfish Run, Pierhead Jump and Neptune Landing. All excellent books.

For more modern albeit American stories I've found David Poyer to be a good read.

[jim7966]

Forgot to add "A Very Ordinary Seaman" by J.P.W. Mallielleu. And I'm sure I butchered the spelling of hus last name so apologies in advance.

Quite possibly the best book I've ever read. Period.

[benbow30]

The Authors Name i have forgotten But a good series of books were I joined the Navy and others Follows the life of a naval officer all good reads now out of print i believe, and another one Very ordinary seaman written by an M.P.
Peter Musselwhite

Benbow30

Just seen post 29 yes John Winton an ex Electrical officer

[berry]

G'DAY All,to all the Hornblower followers,C.S.Forester's birthday falls today 27/8 (1899)-a date he shares with Sir Donald Bradman (1908).Does anyone happen to know if there is any move in Blighty for another series of the terrific Hornblower series starring Ioan Gruffudd as Horatio Hornblower?
Regards Sid

[astraltrader]

Sadly it is now certain there will be no more episodes of Hornblower.

High production costs have made this inevitable.:(

[Scurs]

Think my favourites are the Aussie author JE Macdonnell, and John Winton.

With the latter, "The Good Ship Venus" is one of his best,. pre-empts females at sea in reality by a good few years, and anyone who has ever done a Portland work-up would recognise the location immediately.
Also, whilst not intentional amusing, I had tears of laughter streaming down my face whilst reading "HMS Leviathan"....John Winton's ability to portray things so that the reader can easily visualise them is priceless.
Btw. whilst I was QM in SURPRISE I often chatted during night-watches to the 2nd OOD, Midshipman Sommerville, and he always stated that "The Artful Bodger" was based on an actual person easily recognisable to anyone that had been to Dartford.

[james_harvey]

Another good read HMS Marathon, hms crusader and hms inflexible by A E Lansford.

3 books follow a naval captain across 3 ships. would recomend as they have just been reprinted.

[jim7966]

I would also reccommend, HMS Leviathan by John Winton and two American based books The Sand Pebbles, and The Steel Cocoon by Bentz Plaggerman (sp?).

[Scurs]

Jim7966...........I howled with laughter at the part in HMS Leviathan, where someone operated lift during commissioning ceremony, and the "Devil Dodgers" (Padres) descended to the depths!

[Vegaskip]

Going back to factual books, I recently managed to get hold of two books I've been after for a while, MAKE A SIGNAL, and MAKE ANOTHER SIGNAL, both by Jack Broome.
Really interesting,accounts of Naval events and signals used during them,with a lot of humour as well.

[jim7966]

Jim7966...........I howled with laughter at the part in HMS Leviathan, where someone operated lift during commissioning ceremony, and the "Devil Dodgers" (Padres) descended to the depths!

That was pretty funny. If you pick up The Tinfish Run by Ronald Bassett you'll get a laugh as well.

[Jackaroo]

That is what I said Jim! Has anybody read the Alexander Fullerton WW1 and WW2 novels detailing the career of Nicholas Everard?

Yes I have brilliant reading, highly recommend you get them.

Cheers
Jack :cool:

[Jackaroo]

For those that don’t know, James Edmond Macdonnell was one the most prolific naval writers in Australia. He served in the Royal Australian Navy before, during and after WW2, climbing up through the hawspipe from ordinary seaman to officer in the gunnery branch. This experience of both lowerdeck and wardroom provided invaluable insight into his fictional characters.
I have over sixty of his books and I still reread them. A favourite would be Big Bill The Bastard about a Commander after be dismissed from his destroyer for drunkenness, ignored by his fellow officers, he pestered the naval hierarchy to give him another ship. They did an old and worn out ship and a bunch of misfits who manned her. His job was to work up his ship to fighting efficiency in time to participate in the American invasion of Tarawa Island.
Cheers

Jack :cool:

[Scurs]

Jackaroo..............Havn't read ALL of J E MacDonnell's books, but read a goodly few, brilliant author.

[astraltrader]

Jack you quoted from my post #9 concerning Fullertons books. If you had read post #16 you will see that I did read his first three Everard books and that on balance I was less than impressed!!

His detailed knowledge of both Warships and life in the RN, was fine.

Sadly he did not also seem to have the ability to write exciting naval fiction.!

[tigercat]

Hi Everyone

I must mention the work of Brian Calisson particularly the excellent Flock of Ships

[Big Al]

Having read and own all of Reeman's books as well as the Alexander Kent novels I have to admit I am a fan. I have read most of the other authors mentioned except for Patrick O'Brian so I am reading this thread with interest, I will however get round to them. One good author not mentioned so far is John Winton who's books I found to be worth reading.

[Scurs]

Bid Al..................reference John Winton............oh yes his books have been mentioned - my posts 46 & 49 refer. ;)

[Jackaroo]

Jackaroo is currently reading......Clive Clusser.....CORSAIR......

Cheers
Jack :cool:

[Gypsyvannergirl]

I love Clive Cussler - have read everything he's ever written and learned a great deal of my ship lore from his books and his Sea Hunters series. I actually just finished his novel "Medusa" and it was because of Mr. Cussler that I learned about the US/British coverup of the sinking of the Belgian Troopship, the Leopoldville. As Mr. Cussler said in the front of his novel "Forgotten by many, Remembered by few".

He also has two non-fiction novels that cover some of the ships he and his Sea Hunter crew have found - gee that might explain why they are called Sea Hunters, and Sea Hunters 2.

On a different note - I am desperately trying to find a novel called "Dreadnoughts Curse" dealing with the sinking of the Admiral Graf Spee. I tried to order it through my library and was told it couldn't be found - go figure. Has anyone read this book or heard of it and give me an honest opinion?

Thank you
Gypsyvannergirl

[Don Boyer]

"Dreadnought's Revenge" by H H Hoyt is offered on ABE Books...tons of them available. Hope this helps...

Regards.

[Gypsyvannergirl]

Thank you so much.

I couldn't understand why the library couldn't get it through interlibrary loan, it's not that old a book. I'll go to the local book store as soon as I can.

Thanks
Gypsyvannergirl

[JarrowDave]

Has anybody mentioned Nicholas Monsarrat, yet. Half the films made in the 1950s were based on his books. Das Boot is also a good read, even if it is from the other side of the fence.

JD

[astraltrader]

Having read most of the authors mentioned so far in this thread the really sad thing is that when I was about 20 I read a really breathtakingly exciting book about a WW2 RN destroyer or corvette badly shot up in Pacific and then trying to hide from the Japs in a Pacific Island. It was on par with HMS Ulyses and the Cruel Sea and had as much action as any Reeman. The trouble is I am 56 now and cannot remember either the name of the book or its author!!

Ring a bell with anyone?? :confused:

It is no exaggeration to say that this book did more to influence my subsequent interest in warships than perhaps anything else!

[Scurs]

Terry.............yes, read it..............many moons ago, and I'm 68 so I can't remember the name of book or author either........it was a Destroyer I believe, survivor from Battle of Java Sea.
Thought name of ship was "E" Class............"Encounter, Enterprise, Emerald........" something like that. I was a teenager when I read it so must have been published 1950-60..............but name of it????????
Ive exhausted all the authors I can think of in a futile "google" search.:confused:

[tigercat]

Sounds similar to South by Java Head by Alistair Macclean

[Scurs]

Tigercat....no mate, definitely not that.............I'm wondering if it was by that prolific Australian author J.E.MacDonnell? :confused:

[astraltrader]

Scurs my friend - you have DONE IT!! :cool::):):):eek::p

You are a GENIUS - if I were to come up with a poster of the month award you would have just WON it!!

Your helpful name suggestions were all it took for it to jog the name from my memory that I have been trying to find for literally AGES!!!

Of course it was a fictitious E-Class Destroyer - HMS EURYDICE!!!

and armed now with the correct title I have found out of course who the author was - quite a famous writer of many a WW1 and WW2 classic such as GUNBUSTER and PINCHER MARTIN, etc.

He often wrote under the pen name TAFFRAIL although his real name was
[Capt] Henry Taprell Dorling.

As Ray [Scurs] has mentioned - if you want a cracking good WW2 naval war story on par with CRUEL SEA and HMS ULYSSES then look no further than HMS EURYDICE by TAFFRAIL.

I have yet to find out how easy it is to obtain but rest assured I will be doing so! [cant wait to read it again after all these years!].



Thanks again Ray - between us we did it!!

[astraltrader]

I dont know if any of you have ever seen an internet site called the Nautical Fiction List but if not I include a link to it here.

http://www.boat-links.com/books/nfl/nautfic-01.html#index

If not then give it a look as it is choc full of good ideas for good naval fiction [If I had looked at it before I found it just now, I would have uncovered Eurydice years ago!!!]

Anyway as I rate this book so much I have listed some other books Taffrail has written [taken from the Nautical List].

I intend to try and track down some of them as well!!!



Dorling, Henry Taprell (Taffrail, Entered the RN in 1897. Took part in the
relief of Peking. During WW I he served on destroyers and minelayers,
mainly in the North Sea, and was awarded the DSO in 1918. He retired from
the navy in 1929, though was recalled during WW II as a propagandist in the
Minstry of Information.[From a TIMES obituary])
Pincher Martin, O.D, a story of the inner life of the Royal Navy, 1917
(WW I adventures.)
Pirates, 1929 (An account of British gunboats tackling piracy in the
Canton delta.)
Endless Story, 1931 (Destroyers in WW I)
Kerrell, 1931 (First lieutenant of a destroyer in action in the North Sea
and with the Dover Patrol in WW I. Good substantial naval action
story.)
Cypher K, 1932 (A book for older boys, The latest cypher is stolen from a
RN cruiser and a retired naval officer in his sailing yacht manages to
retrieve it.)
The Scarlet Stripe, 1932 (Naval surgeon adrift in life-boat with 22 men
after their Q ship is sunk by U-boat in WW I.)
Dover-Ostend, 1933 (A cross-channel thriller. Piracy in the English
Channel is resolved by a naval officer. Included are charts so the
reader can follow the action which involves lots of coastal cruising
aboard the officer's yacht.)
Seventy North, 1934 (Plenty of statistics and social history are
interestingly incorporated into a readable story involving a Hull
trawler fishing in the arctic prior to WW II. Although written in the
style of the day, reading the book now graphically illustrates how the
importance and impact of fishing on the community has been eroded
today.)
Second Officer, 1935 (Gives the reader an accurate picture of the
pleasant side of life in the Merchant Navy of the day. (unlike MID
ATLANTIC?) Large general cargo ships voyage London - Panama - Pacific
to New Zealand with adventures on the way.)
Mid Atlantic, 1936 (With this story the author takes up the cudgels on
behalf of the merchant seamen of Great Britain during the Depression.
Sailing aboard an ill-found tramp the unfailing courage and heroic
tenacity of her people fail to save her after steering failure in
severe weather. Plenty of technical, social and background detail.)
Operation M.O., 1938 (Naval Intelligence track down and recover stolen
state secrets, with the aid of the Royal Navy, from a merchantman off
the Danish coast in this pre-war spy thriller. Really only 25%
nautical.)
Fred Travis AB, 1939 (Naval action off the Spanish coast during the
Spanish Civil War.)
Chenies, 1943 (Two serving officers of the above name in the Royal Navy
in the early years of WW2. Destroyer patrol, convoy duties, bad
weather, U-boats and torpedoed ships combine to make a patriotic yarn.
As the blurb says, Taffrail's first novel of the navy in action in
WW2.)
Eurydice, 1954? (The Royal Navy destroyer HMS EURYDICE, badly damaged and
only just afloat, survives the battle of the Java Sea and by evading
the omnipresent Japanese Navy, survives to seek shelter at a small
island in the Japanese dominated Eastern Archipelago. She can not
remain undisturbed for long and the story unfolds with the attention to
detail one expects from this author.)
Arctic Convoy, 1956 (A story strongly based on fact. The Arctic convoys
to North Russia from the perspective of a young officer serving in a
destroyer.)
Sketches and Stories:
Carry On, 1916
Stand By, 1917
Off Shore, 1917
Sea Spray and Spindrift, 1917
Minor Operations, 1917
The Watch Below, 1918
A Little Ship, 1918
HMS Anonymous, 1919

[Scurs]

:D:D:D Glad to have been of assistance Terry!

Published 1954?, that would tie in as I probably read it in 1955 or 56...........aged 13 or 14! Taffrail eh? Never thought of him!

More recently, a couple I would HIGHLY recommend Terry:-

"The Battle of the April Storm" - Larry Forrester (loosely based on Gloworm v Hipper).
"The Good Ship Venus" - John Winton (Portland work-up and the first mixed sex crewed ship).

[astraltrader]

Thanks again Ray. I have read the Winton book but not the first one you mentioned.

I will look out for it.

[sourdough]

I have considered if I should put this in and decided that if you all did not like it you could remove it and hopefully I will repent and be forgiven.;)
There is a series of books starting with "1632" by Eric Flint. These are about a town in the West Virgina coal mining area that gets transported from the 20th century to the year 1632 in Germany. That is the only thing I would call science fiction in the whole series. It should be historical fiction.
Anyway, eventially they join with King Gustav of Sweden in the 30 years war and have to adapt the modern knowledge to the existing envernment including building a navy. ( there is a retired USN officer caught in the town for his sons wedding). It is interesting how they come up with ideas to build ironclads and steam power with the local resources. I think if you give it a try you will find it very interesting.
Jim

[steve roberts]

I have read numerous Naval books both fiction and non-fiction.I have thoroughly enjoyed the Hornblower Novels of C.S. Forrester.Also the Alexander Kent (Douglas Reeman) Novels of the Richard Bolitho series,but recently I have come across a new Naval Fiction Author. His name is John Stack.I have just finished reading the second of a trilogy of books.They are set in the time of the Punic Wars,between Rome and Carthage.The Theme is Roman Galleys and of Romes attempt to overcome the mighty Carthaginian Navy. They are a well recommended read,and vivdly tell of the life on board such ships at this time.The titles are "Ship of Rome" and "Captain of Rome". The third has yet to be published...Regards Steve.

[INVINCIBLE]

I have read numerous Naval books both fiction and non-fiction.I have thoroughly enjoyed the Hornblower Novels of C.S. Forrester.Also the Alexander Kent (Douglas Reeman) Novels of the Richard Bolitho series,but recently I have come across a new Naval Fiction Author. His name is John Stack.I have just finished reading the second of a trilogy of books.They are set in the time of the Punic Wars,between Rome and Carthage.The Theme is Roman Galleys and of Romes attempt to overcome the mighty Carthaginian Navy. They are a well recommended read,and vivdly tell of the life on board such ships at this time.The titles are "Ship of Rome" and "Captain of Rome". The third has yet to be published...Regards Steve.

Steve,

Glad you enjoyed Hornblower. You may be interested to hear that the "C S Forester" Society, with a particular interest in Hornblower, is alive and well!
They are arranging to fire a Nelson era cannon at Fort Nelson - hope it will not make too much noise where you are!!

[steve roberts]

Hi Invincible.The bang should be plenty loud enough here.I just hope its only a blank charge and that they dont load it with ball.It would just about reach my place from the Armouries:D Regards Steve.

[steve roberts]

I Have just been recommended a book to read.It's title is "Battle Cry" by Leon Uris.Before I go ahead and by what seems to be a fairly old book,has anyone out there read it? It is purported to be about the USMC. Regards Steve.

[INVINCIBLE]

I Have just been recommended a book to read.It's title is "Battle Cry" by Leon Uris.Before I go ahead and by what seems to be a fairly old book,has anyone out there read it? It is purported to be about the USMC. Regards Steve.

Steve,

I think Leon Uris wrote "Exodus" about the return of the Jews to their homeland. It was made into a very long film in the fifties, which we saw in the cinema. I had a copy of the book but it was very long and not an easy read so I did not get to the end but do not let me put you off the book. He served in the USMC during the war in the Pacific and with the up coming great HBOS TV series "The Pacific" it could well be topical.

[astraltrader]

Funnily enough I watched Exodus the 1960 classic film set around the creation of Israel, only the day before yesterday. Starring Paul Newman and directed by Otto Preminger.

I had forgotten what a really good film it was. It even showed a few scenes with British destroyers in them!

Steve - Battle Cry by Leon Uris is a really fine WW2 novel featuring a really tough USMC top Sergeant and a fighting unit of the 6th Marine Regiment in their battles across the Pacific in Guadalcanal, Tarawa and Saipan. It might be an old book [1953] but it is a classic war novel.

It cant be regarded as naval fiction however.

[steve roberts]

Hi Gang.Thanks for your replies.I think I will give it ago and see what it's like.It seems to a bit pricey for a really old book..Regards Steve.

[Paddy]

I have considered if I should put this in and decided that if you all did not like it you could remove it and hopefully I will repent and be forgiven.;)
There is a series of books starting with "1632" by Eric Flint. These are about a town in the West Virgina coal mining area that gets transported from the 20th century to the year 1632 in Germany. That is the only thing I would call science fiction in the whole series. It should be historical fiction.
Anyway, eventially they join with King Gustav of Sweden in the 30 years war and have to adapt the modern knowledge to the existing envernment including building a navy. ( there is a retired USN officer caught in the town for his sons wedding). It is interesting how they come up with ideas to build ironclads and steam power with the local resources. I think if you give it a try you will find it very interesting.
Jim

I don't know how I missed this thread for so long but it has now given me enough reading Ideas for the rest of my life.
As for the Eric flint 1632 theme, it sounds a great idea for a bit of day dreaming, I will have to find it.
Paddy.

[Paddy]

I have read hundreds of books with a nautical theme over the past 50 + years and one of the early ones is still on my bookshelf from the day the film came out in the Bayswater road London.
I was a sea cadet with the job of standing guard in boots and gaiters outside the cinema ( picture house) on the opening day.
The film, the first screening of THE CRUEL SEA.
My mother worked for an (not prolific) author who gave her the book for me.
It was the start of my love affair with naval books.
Problem is,,, most of my books came from jumble sales, car boot sales etc at 10d to about 50 pence each, I would come home with a great stack of books which I would devour but they were never in order.
In later years I went back over some authers and read their work in order and still doing it.
As an after thought,,, why was 10d, 10d.
Paddy

[INVINCIBLE]

Hi Gang.Thanks for your replies.I think I will give it ago and see what it's like.It seems to a bit pricey for a really old book..Regards Steve.

Steve,

Well done - will look forward to your recommendation idc.

[astraltrader]

Hi Gang.Thanks for your replies.I think I will give it ago and see what it's like.It seems to a bit pricey for a really old book..Regards Steve.


Steve it is readily available in paperback as well.

[steve roberts]

Hi All. I have now read "Battle Cry" by Leon Uris. As Terry said it is not primarily a Naval Book,but to those who have not read it,I can certainly recommend it.It is what is called a "Page Turner" Regards Steve.

[INVINCIBLE]

Hi All. I have now read "Battle Cry" by Leon Uris. As Terry said it is not primarily a Naval Book,but to those who have not read it,I can certainly recommend it.It is what is called a "Page Turner" Regards Steve.

Steve,

Well done and thank you very much for your recommendation. You must be a speed reader or it is a short book, much much shorter than his "Exodus" book.

[astraltrader]

As I said it is a great read - especially the portrayal of the archetypal tough top sergeant!!

[steve roberts]

Hi Invincible/Terry. Yes the Gunnery Sergeant is right out of the top drawer,but still with a soft spot for the men under him.Invincible.It's not so much that I'm a speed reader,I just could not put it down.Many Regards Steve.

[INVINCIBLE]

Hi Invincible/Terry. Yes the Gunnery Sergeant is right out of the top drawer,but still with a soft spot for the men under him.Invincible.It's not so much that I'm a speed reader,I just could not put it down.Many Regards Steve.

Steve,

Thanks - must get hold of a copy. Will try my local library though it seems to stock less and less books on naval subjects and indeed just recently the section on naval history has been removed from the shelves of the general library and banished to the reference section ("Don't take out") upstairs. I wonder if this is a sign of the times or just a reduced interest in naval matters around here.

[steve roberts]

Hi Invincible. "Battle Cry" is available on Amazon books in paper back for a very reasonable price.I ordered it at 6pm one night and it arrived a day later by first class mail.Thats what I call good service.It's almost as thick as "Exodus" but dont be tempted to by a copy of that.The cheapest I could find was £16 for a used paper back edition.Luckly I have a First edition,latest quoted price was £700 pounds.Might hang on to it,could be a tidy nest egg in a few years.Signed copies go for in excess of £4000!! Regards Steve.:cool: PS If ou can make it to Gosport library they have a wonderful selection of Naval history books both Reference and lending.

[INVINCIBLE]

Hi Invincible. "Battle Cry" is available on Amazon books in paper back for a very reasonable price.I ordered it at 6pm one night and it arrived a day later by first class mail.Thats what I call good service.It's almost as thick as "Exodus" but dont be tempted to by a copy of that.The cheapest I could find was £16 for a used paper back edition.Luckly I have a First edition,latest quoted price was £700 pounds.Might hang on to it,could be a tidy nest egg in a few years.Signed copies go for in excess of £4000!! Regards Steve.:cool: PS If ou can make it to Gosport library they have a wonderful selection of Naval history books both Reference and lending.

Steve,

Very many thanks for your most helpful advice about the naval books section of the Gosport library. I do remember it being launched a number of years ago when several collections were brought together and transferred to Gosport. I was invited to the launch but unfortunately working in London I was not able to attend. Pse see my PM.
Cheers

[steve roberts]

Hi Invincible.Got your PM and have replied.Another Author that could be included in our list,is the now sadly departed Alister McLean.His HMS UYLYSESS was classic when I was younger.He also wrote SOUTH BY JAVA HEAD,though that was more Merchant Marine than Naval.Does anyone know of any others that I may have forgotten of his that were Naval? Going back to the original Post of this thread.In Douglas reemans book The Deep Silence,RFA Stromness is depicted on the cover as a Submarine Depot Ship!.Many regards Steve.

[INVINCIBLE]

Hi Invincible.Got your PM and have replied.Another Author that could be included in our list,is the now sadly departed Alister McLean.His HMS UYLYSESS was classic when I was younger.He also wrote SOUTH BY JAVA HEAD,though that was more Merchant Marine than Naval.Does anyone know of any others that I may have forgotten of his that were Naval? Going back to the original Post of this thread.In Douglas reemans book The Deep Silence,RFA Stromness is depicted on the cover as a Submarine Depot Ship!.Many regards Steve.

Steve,

Didn't Alistair Maclean write the Guns of Navarone (film of same name with warship shots at the end) and Ice Station Zebra (submarines) and I think some others.

[steve roberts]

Hi Invincible.He did indeed write those books.I particularly like the part in the Film "The Guns of Navarone" where the group are met by a special forces officer and the disapointed look on hims face when they turn down the offer of a German E-Boat! "Ice Station Zebra did indeed have a majority of the plot set on a submarine.Unfortunately American! Regards Steve.

[alanandbren]

couple of great submarine films were "Morning departure", and "We dive at dawn", both with John Mills as the sub skipper. another wartime film that was taken as a propaganda film was "Close Quarters" which starred real submarine crew and the skipper was Lt Cdr Gregory, the boat was I believe "Tribune"

[steve roberts]

Hi Alanandbren.Did you know that "Morning Departure" was very nearly never released? It had been made about the time of the HMS/M TRUCULENT disaster and the producers thought that this film would cause offense.However the Admiralty gave their permission and in the titles sequence it pays tribute to TRUCULENT's crew.Regards Steve.

[steve roberts]

Invincible. Here is another author of what might loosely be called Naval Fiction.His name is Patrick Robinson.His main character is an American Admiral called Arnold Morgan.Most of his books have highly improbable plots like the Stealing of a British Upholder class submarine.Providing you realise he is only trying for effect,and don't assume he has inside knowledge,His books are not too bad. Regards Steve.

[steve roberts]

Nicholas Montserrat has been mentioned a few times on this thread.His classic is obviously "The Cruel Sea",but he wrote numerous other books about the small ship navy.Including "Three Corvettes" "HM Corvette""The ship that Died of Shame". The list is endless. His last book was "Darken Ship" which unfortunately was never finished.Regards Steve.

[berry]

G'day All,happy St.George's day !
To all the Hornblower followers,does anyone know if there is a tale,written by C.S.Forester,or anyone else,which covers the period when H.M.S.Indefatigable with H.M.S.Amazon drove ashore the French line-of battleship Droits de L'homme,13/14 January 1797.Hornblower should have beenaboard the Indefatigable at the time,and there seems to be a gap in Forester's narrative between Hornblower's command of the supply ship Caroline,and his capture by the Spaniards when he was in the sloop 'Le Reve'.What was Hornblower's involvement when the Droit's de L'homme was destroyed ?
kind regards
Sid

[Alaric]

Nicholas Montserrat has been mentioned a few times on this thread.His classic is obviously "The Cruel Sea",but he wrote numerous other books about the small ship navy.Including "Three Corvettes" "HM Corvette""The ship that Died of Shame". The list is endless. His last book was "Darken Ship" which unfortunately was never finished.Regards Steve.


Yes the last two books were a very ambitious project, following one man, Matthew Lawe, from Drake's navy, through to modern times (clearly some licence used here!). A pity the project was never finished, although at least he made it past Nelson - as a great admirer of the man and his times, this chapter was vintage Monsarrat.

The books are good and even the last, unfinished, novel worth the read, although little can compare with the grit, energy and sheer poetry of The Cruel Sea.

[Seagull]

You've probably seen this website:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cruel_Sea_(novel)

Does the sea on the cover of the book look cruel enough? Where are the huge waves and ocean abysses?
Any artists out there to take up the challenge?
Seagull

[INVINCIBLE]

G'day All,happy St.George's day !
To all the Hornblower followers,does anyone know if there is a tale,written by C.S.Forester,or anyone else,which covers the period when H.M.S.Indefatigable with H.M.S.Amazon drove ashore the French line-of battleship Droits de L'homme,13/14 January 1797.Hornblower should have beenaboard the Indefatigable at the time,and there seems to be a gap in Forester's narrative between Hornblower's command of the supply ship Caroline,and his capture by the Spaniards when he was in the sloop 'Le Reve'.What was Hornblower's involvement when the Droit's de L'homme was destroyed ?
kind regards
Sid

CS Forester is very hard to pin down in his Hornblower books as very few dates accompany the text. Somehow Hornblower manages to miss all the major battles of the Napoleonic Wars.
As regards the action with the French ship of the line Doit de l’Homme (74) on 13 Jan 1797 Acting Lieutenant Hornblower had previously left the Indefatigable in Gibraltar to take the examination for Lieutenant. The examination had been interrupted by an attack of Spanish fire ships. In January 1797 Hornblower, still as an Acting Lieutenant, was appointed to the prize sloop Le Reve and ordered to take her to Plymouth with the Duchess of Wharfedale. She ran into the Spanish Fleet in a fog and was captured. Hornblower was taken prisoner and spent two years in a Spanish jail. He was confirmed in the rank of Lieutenant in his absence in Aug 1797 and released the following year as a reward for his courage in rescuing some Spanish fishermen.
Below Ebenezer Colls famous picture of the action.

[berry]

Thanks for that,then we can take it that Hornblower was not involved in the action between Indefatigable /droits de l'homme.... for me a pity but that seems to have been the case.
regards
Sid

[INVINCIBLE]

Thanks for that,then we can take it that Hornblower was not involved in the action between Indefatigable /droits de l'homme.... for me a pity but that seems to have been the case.
regards
Sid

Sid,

You are correct, Hornblower was not onboard the 'INDY' at the time of the famous action of a large frigate taking on a battleship - and winning !!
I agree that it is a pity that Hornblower does not seem to have been present in any of the great sea battles of the period. Not sure why CS Forester, who was an expert on such battles, decided to keep Hornblower out of them all. CS Forester did write serious books on naval history. I don't think O'Brian has his hero take part in any major battle (I am sure somebody will correct me if I am wrong!)
At least we now have Alaric, who has recently joined this forum, who has managed to get his hero to join a famous battle in his book "The Jackass Frigate". Perhaps he might comment on how difficult it is to include famous battles in fiction?

[steve roberts]

I seem to recall,that Alexander Kent's hero Richard Bolitho,was kept out of all the major naval actions as well.I think he was a Frigate Captain on the fringes of the battle of The Saintes,and in command of a sloop,leading the fleet to the battle of Chesapeak Bay.
Regards Steve.

[Alaric]

In my view (and there will be bias here!), there is nothing wrong in "fictionalising" a famous battle or incident, providing it is done accurately, and with respect to those who took part. The more so when the action may have fallen out of public notice. Responsible fiction can inform, as well as entertain.

[INVINCIBLE]

In my view (and there will be bias here!), there is nothing wrong in "fictionalising" a famous battle or incident, providing it is done accurately, and with respect to those who took part. The more so when the action may have fallen out of public notice. Responsible fiction can inform, as well as entertain.

Alaric,

Well said and I agree entirely that including 'big battles' in fiction helps to improve knowledge of them providing they are accurately portrayed. I thoroughly enjoy Bernard Cornwall's books such as "Azincourt" also the one he did on "Crecy". Anyway look forward to your next books.

[rab.m.]

Surprised nobody has mentioned The Sand Pebbles great read and film.My favourite naval fiction though has to be The Red Sailor by Patrick O'Hara.Only wish I could source a copy from somewhere.

[steve roberts]

Hi Rab.I totally agree with you.Both are cracking reads."Sand pebbles" is still available,but I dont know about "The Red Sailor.I would suggest you try Amazon books and if they dont have it,ABE Books are very good at finding out of print books.Usually second hand and in fair to 'orrible condition,but at rock bottom prices.
Cheers Steve.

[Gypsyvannergirl]

Okay

How's this for interesting (not to mention a complete fantasy of course)

Clive Cussler in the beginning of his novel Sahara had the confederate ironclad (with a kidnapped President Abraham Lincoln on board and tons of confederate gold) sail across the Atlantic ocean (which we know ironclads can't do) and find a river in the Sahara Desert in Mali and end up buried in a cave under a ton of sand. (Keep in mind the Sahara Desert was at one time fairly lush and green so underground rivers aren't completely out of the question.) Of course, our heroes Dirk Pitt and Al Giordino find the ironclad and the dead president and crew and the tons of gold which they donate to a tribe of Tuareg warriors and everyone lives happily after. (I think this is where Walt Disney comes into the picture with 'Dreams really do come true. :D

Actually, Sahara was one of the best novels he wrote and one of the worst movies they ever made.

GVG

[steve roberts]

Hi Corrine.Completely agree with your assessment of both.How Clive ever let a film of one of his books be made as badly as that defies belief.Have you read "Corsair" on the same sort of theme?
Regards Steve.

[Gypsyvannergirl]

Steve, I read every Clive Cussler novel I can. But he writes so many of them I can't keep up.

Corsair was great, especially with the pirate problems today. Arctic Drift was great too. So was Plague Ship. I've been trying to find a copy of Skeleton Coast and just got Dark Watch out of the library,

Trojan Odyssey is another good one especially the beginning quote from a book called 'Where Troy Once Stood' which makes a good arguement for Troy actually existing in England and the battle wasn't over some hussy but was actually over valuable tin.

It's taken me ten years but finally I found a copy of Treasure and am about to start it. My favorite books have to be Inca Gold: Vixen O8; and Night Probe.

Clive Cussler, who is passionate about his search for shipwrecks and the truth behind many of the cover-ups (Leopoldville for example) uses money from his novels to fund his research. He so desperately wants to find the original Bonhomme Richard and I wish him the best of luck.

I don't know if you heard the story about his attempt to sail into French waters to locate the Wrecks of the Leopoldville and I believe the Alabama. He forgot to tell the French he was coming.

At that point in time, the French Navy had spent six months setting up testing for a new Nuclear Submarine and every spy agency in the world had spent at least a month setting up surveillance equipment to monitor the nuclear sub testing. Well to make a long story short, here came Cussler on the scene with his little boat of research pirates and screwed the whole test up. To quote good old Clive: "The excrement hit the oscillator" and the French were less than impressed. His team got one good 'picture' of the Leopoldville before being driven out of the area. Every surveillance team in the world has him on their s*** list and his crew spent the rest of their time throwing irish potatoes at French Navy Vessels. He said he isn't going anywhere near there again because he knows they have a prison cell waiting for him. You can read the whole story on his NUMA website. It is funny. :D

GVG

[BB-39 USS Arizona]

Yes y'all are right, Clive Cussler does use facts for his books. The one I enjoy is "Black Wind". Which he uses the I-400 class submarines of Japan, from World War II. My other book I favor is, "The Mediterranean Caper". Yes it is an early book, but very enjoyable to me. I don't have the other writers, as I don't enjoy them that much. So for me, it's Clive or nothing.

Clive Cussler in the beginning of his novel Sahara had the confederate ironclad (with a kidnapped President Abraham Lincoln on board and tons of confederate gold) sail across the Atlantic ocean (which we know ironclads can't do) and find a river in the Sahara Desert in Mali and end up buried in a cave under a ton of sand.

GVG, the ironclad for that is the C.S.S. Texas.

Over all I enjoyed Sahara, 10 times more then I did "Raise the Titanic. Though both needed alot of help.

[MelQuick]

Hi Everyone

I read all of the Hornblower books. I always regretted that Bush didn't make it to retirement.

Mel

[Alaric]

Yes, apart from being an excellent foil, that helped to define Hornblower's character, he always struck me as being a really decent bloke; the kind you'd want next to you in a crisis. Lieutenant Hornblower, written from Bush's point of view, was particularly good.

[Gypsyvannergirl]

I never read the Hornblower books but I thought the series of movies were very well done. It's always something else to see those ships in action with the cannons firing at close range. (But not the Pirates of the Caribbean movie's YUCK):D

GVG

[INVINCIBLE]

I never read the Hornblower books but I thought the series of movies were very well done. It's always something else to see those ships in action with the cannons firing at close range. (But not the Pirates of the Caribbean movie's YUCK):D

GVG

GVG,

Lucky you if you have not yet read the Hornblower books you have a great treat in store as they are excellent books. They were the first true books of the genre and probably remain the best though supporters of more modern writers might not agree. The Hornblower film with Gregory Peck as Captain Hornblower, made in the 1960s remains a classic of the cinema.

[Gypsyvannergirl]

I'll take your word for the movie with Gregory Peck - at least until I can find it to watch it.

I'll see if our library has - or can get - the books.. Or the Book store.

(But Ioan Gruyffdd did have a cute butt):D

GVG

[Alaric]

Can't / won't comment on Gruyffdd's butt, but Peck was certainly the more authentic Hornblower. The film, a combination of Happy Return, Ship of the Line and Flying Colours, is certainly a classic (screenplay by C S Forester, I believe).

I have sept most of my life reading and, latterly, writing, Historical Nautical Fiction, and regard CSF as the granddaddy of them all. Patrick O'Brian may have been more prolific, and his prose is certainly masterly, but nothing matches the pure adventure of a Forester storyline. The Hornblower Companion, though a little difficult to get now, give a wonderful insight into the books' creation.

[Scurs]

Alaric.........Don't know if you read it, but I enjoyed "The Life and Times of Horatio Hornblower" by C. Northcote-Parkinson.

[INVINCIBLE]

I'll take your word for the movie with Gregory Peck - at least until I can find it to watch it.

I'll see if our library has - or can get - the books.. Or the Book store.

(But Ioan Gruyffdd did have a cute butt):D

GVG

GVG,

Yes I would certainly agree that “Hornblower” is the ‘…Grandaddy of them all…’.
CS Forester was of course far more than just the creator of Hornblower, he wrote a great many books, fiction and non-fiction including crime novels, on many subjects, from the Conquistadors to Wellington’s campaign in the Peninsular War.

Quite a few of his books became big box office films as well as “Captain Hornblower” and they included: “The African Queen” (with Humphrey Bogart and Katherine Hepburn), “Sink the Bismarck” (Kenneth Moore and Dana Andrews), “The Pride and the Passion” (with Cary Grant, Sophia Loren and Frank Sinatra), “Sailor of the King” (Jeff Hunter, Michael Rennie and Wendy Hiller). There are probably others as well.

There is a C S Forester Society, details at: http://www.dse.nl/~csforester/

[Alaric]

Alaric.........Don't know if you read it, but I enjoyed "The Life and Times of Horatio Hornblower" by C. Northcote-Parkinson.

Yes, a good book on many levels - nice to have the Hornblower saga "fleshed out", and he includes a lot of interesting background to the era. CNF treats the subject very much as a real person; if fact the whole thing reads like just another naval biography: I wonder if anyone has ever been fooled?

[Scurs]

Alaric............good question! :D CNP certainly made the book seem fact not fiction! Very cleverly done I thought.

Hornblower was the first, or one of the first, fictional "heros" of that genre, spawned a plethora of inferior (in my opinion) books, none quite reaching the "something" that the Hornblower books achieved. That is not to say the others were not enjoyable, readable, or popular, but just lacked something.

One of the more unique to my mind, being Julian Stockwin's "Thomas Kydd" series, where the hero is a pressed man...........until he achieves wardroom status, then the series becomes no different to countless others.

[Gypsyvannergirl]

Haven't seen the Hornblower Movie with Gregory Peck in.

But he was a great actor.

My favorite movie that I watch all the time whenever it's on TV is: "The Guns of Navarone."

GVG

[Don Boyer]

Being a conservative kind of guy, I enjoy rousing seafaring stories as well as the next, although I have not read much of it simply because it gets in the way of my factual historical bent.

I think that if an author can portray the "realism" of living through historical events of great importance, while not distorting the actual history itself, then it becomes some of the best literature out there. The English authors seem to excel at that, given a couple of American authors that don't do too bad either!

However, when someone tries to hide "revisionist history" or political viewpoints behind a "fictional" naval tale, I get plenty bent. It's a cheap trick, and unfortunately fools many due to our abysmal educational systems on both sides of the ocean turning out generations of mental dreck for years. Poorly researched and written supposedly factual books abound as well, and I like them about the same.

I will now carefully place my well-worn soap box back in the closet. :rolleyes:

[Scurs]

Don.............the fastest way for me to lose all interest in any book I am reading, be it fact or fiction, is when it is painfully obvious that the author has not researched his/her subject sufficiently.
I will not mention names but one author was a Master Mariner (ie.......Captain of a Merchant Ship), and may well know the sea and merchant vessels........unfortunately it was obvious he did NOT know warships or naval routine.
Likewise, another author, has produced many a popular book on military fiction...........he should have stuck to it and not tried to write about things he obviously knew little about...ships.
Both the above are well known authors, the latter also tried his hand at your Civil War, with, in my less than humble opinion, a success ratio only marginally greater than when he wrote about ships!

[MelQuick]

Hi Scurs

I agree with you 100% - it spoils a book when you realise that the background research is poor.

I used to read the books of Jan de Hartog, a Dutch author who wrote about the Dutch mercantile marine. His books were absolutely brilliant - you could almost smell the salt.

Mel

[INVINCIBLE]

Hi Scurs

I agree with you 100% - it spoils a book when you realise that the background research is poor.

I used to read the books of Jan de Hartog, a Dutch author who wrote about the Dutch mercantile marine. His books were absolutely brilliant - you could almost smell the salt.

Mel

Yes there are quite a few who do write well about maritime subjects, I like the books of Antony Trew as well as Jan de Hartog. I do agree that it rather spoils things when one comes across mistakes.

[Antipodean Andy]

Good thread. Some new books for me and, sadly, some classics I have yet to read.

I have several Patrick O'Brian's but only read the first to date and thoroughly enjoyed it. Same applies for Fullerton's Everard series although I only have the first four of the WW2 saga. Found Storm Force To Narvik very well done but can't comment on him as a whole since that's the only book of his I have read.

Perhaps the best naval fiction I have read of late was Forester's The Ship. Loved it and seeing your comments about the Hornblower books (and having enjoyed a couple of the movies) has made me want to read more.

Douglas Reeman/Alexander Kent and Dudley Pope take up some space on my shelves as well but haven't read any yet (bought because they are often just a few dollars in the bargain bins). Have been a Clive Cussler fan for a long time as they (and the spin-off series' written by other authors) are always a bit of fun. Enjoyed Patrick Robinson although I haven't read any of his fiction work since I gave up on HMS Unseen halfway through.

Joe Buff writes a decent 'future' submarine book. I had a go at Michael DiMercurio and while enjoyable I haven't gone out of my way to read more.

[Antipodean Andy]

Was that inspired after reading this thread I started O'Brian's Post Captain last night. :D

[steve roberts]

Hi Andy.I found Fulertons 'Everard' series more interesting when it was based on the first world war.Just a thought and more future reading for you!!:D
Many Regards Steve.

[astraltrader]

I must admit Steve that I have read many of the Everard series and find the writing very stilted although obviously well researched from a technical point of view.

[Antipodean Andy]

Hi Andy.I found Fulertons 'Everard' series more interesting when it was based on the first world war.Just a thought and more future reading for you!!:D
Many Regards Steve.


Gee, thanks, Steve. LOL. Given I have been reading WW2 for years (almost exclusively much to the neglect of WW1) I found the first of the later saga easy to 'relate' to and I particularly liked how he worked the main characters and their respective ships into historic events (Battle of Narvik etc). Took the dialogue for granted as I knew his background to be that of a WW2 submarine chap - so knows more than I ever will - but did find some of the characterisations cliched.

On the strength of my enjoyment of Storm Force To Narvik I'm always on the look out for any Fullerton book so the WW1 titles will make their way to me eventually.

Bought the first two Hornblowers (published order) the other day so am shaking my head at having added another series to the list! :rolleyes:

[jainso31]

In answer to the opening premise-Absolutely!
My favourites include:-
Nicholas Monsarratt's- The Cruel Sea and Three Corvettes
Alistair Maclean's- HMS Ulysses-light cruiser
Donald Moore's- All of one Company- escort carrier
Ewart Brooke's- To Endless Night-trawler
Ronald Bassett's- Tinfish Run and The Pierhead Jump-this last writer is pure light entertainment; for those who like that sort of fiction.
Gilbert Hackforth-Jones-The Greatest Fool and Dangerous Trade

jainso31

[limpet44]

The Kings Shilling and other books by Mike Lunnon-Wood make for good reading:)

[glojo]

I have just been lucky enough to receive an uncorrected proof copy of Julian Stockwin's latest book CONQUEST, unfortunately I have also won first prize in the shingles stake and this pesky virus has spread to my eye which is making any reading painful. I have altered the size of the fonts on my monitor which is making this reading slightly easier.

For all us old fogey's that enjoy a good Second World War read then may I recommend

Send Down a Dove by Charles MacHardy

This should also appeal to the older submariners who served aboard our older submarines that always emitted that odour de la diesel or was it body odour? :o :)

Apologies for my humour but it is a great read and I thoroughly recommend it.

Regards
John the optimist

[kelp]

I can recommend Sean Thomas Russell's books, Under Enemy Colours and A Battle Won. A relatively new naval writer but very good.

[Nobby_N]

I mentioned Alastair Maclean's HMS Ulysses in another thread tonight. It got me thinking about another of His books: The Guns of Navarone. I saw the film before I read the book. There was one scene that is fixed in my memory: The raiders are in a Caique on their way to Navarone and they are hailed by a German patrol boat.

The way they dealt with that patrol boat suddenly made me identify with those German sailors. I thought: in similar circumstances - off Cyprus perhaps during the EOKA period - that could be me. Not nice!
this is the scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjMrIj9cO68&NR=1

Nobby_N

[astraltrader]

I know I have mentioned it before on an earlier post in this thread but if anybody wants to read well written and unbelievably gripping WW2 naval fiction on par with either HMS Ulysses or the Cruel Sea then try to find:

EURYDICE - written and first published around 1954 by Taffrail [the pen name of a [Capt] Henry Taprell Dorling].
The book is centred around the destroyer HMS Eurydice who badly damaged and barely afloat, survives the Battle of the Java Sea and by skilfully evading the pursuing Japanese, survives to seek shelter at a tiny island somewhere in the Eastern Archipelago. Soon she is discovered and.........!!!!! Cracking action and attention to detail.

Try and find it you will not be disappointed!

This author [Taffrail] has written other exceptionally good books well worth reading including Arctic Convoy [1956]....

[seaJane]

Hi Terry

I have a copy of Taffrail's "The secret submarine" somewhere, but haven't read it yet. Must!

sJ

[astraltrader]

Never heard of that one Sea Jane. Let me know what you think when you have read it - I would be interested.

[jainso31]

Ronald Bassett's novels "Tinfish Run" and Pierhead Jump" are a tad ribald; but are (I think)extremely amusing.;)

jainso31

[Jim in Annville]

Two of my all time favorites are "Run Silent, Run Deep" and "Dust on the Water" by Edward L. Beach. I really wish I could find alot of these books you guys are talking about in the US. I am a avid reader and I haven't heard of half of these authors.:mad:

[Sean Roberts]

Hi Jim.Do you have an account with Amazon Books? They will put you in touch or even buy for you from wide spread book stores of books long out of print.If you also set up a Paypal account,you can usually buy with one click on line.They are very trustworthy and your bank details are kept very very secure.Amazon have never let me down and I have even bought books for 1pence plus postage and packaging.

[astraltrader]

I totally agree with Sean - I too have used Amazon on many occasions and ordering books from them cannot be any easier.

Bank details are safe in a secure site and delivery is always prompt.

[Nobby_N]

I am agreeing with Sean about Amazon but, in the unlikely case that you draw a blank with them try Alibris they specialise in out of print books and as their name implies many of the books they find are 'withdrawn' ex-library copies.

Nobby_N

[Ex-Dragoon]

James H Cobb has a few that I enjoyed as well. I recommend the Amanda Garrett series with Choosers of the Slain, Storm Dragon, Sea Fighter and Target Lock.

[Mitch Hinde]

Hi All

An early C S Forester WWI novel "Brown on Resolution" makes for a good read. Later made into a very inferior film which completely missed the plot of the original book.

Mitch Hinde

[SheppeyMiss]

I've just finished the Kindle version of The ShipC S Forester. It concerns one ship in a convoy in the Mediterranean during WWII. I found his characterisation of the various crew members on the ships featured riveting. For me, it provided an insight to the period, mood and attitudes prevailing then.

[Stan.J]

Just found a book by James Nelson..Called ."By Force of arms".Book one of the Revolution at sea saga..First published in 1997.In paperback Corgi 2003.

It is about the American revolution after the Boston Harbour tea problem of 1794...I am about three chapters in and it looks to be a probable winner with me...The Hero is Isaac Biddlecomb. He is a young captain of a smuggling ship...and....Never mind this. Why not get hold of it and read...
Cheers Stan