Plumbing on Board

[ivorthediver]

In a similar vain to my "Mains" thread was the hot and cold water used for ablutions run to individual cabins or a central collection point in post war ships of the Navy please

[alanbenn]

In a similar vain to my "Mains" thread was the hot and cold water used for ablutions run to individual cabins or a central collection point in post war ships of the Navy please


Can't answer the question ITD, but the 'INDIVIDUAL CABINS' had me in fits of laughter.........what a treat that would have been.


Regards
Alan

[NSR]

Back in steam days the hot water was held in large tanks local to the various bathrooms. It was produced in calorifiers which were smaller tanks with steam coils inside. The steam flow was regulated by a thermostat and the condensate returned to the feed tanks. Smaller versions (Jackson's were a popular make) were found in the galleys for producing hot water for tea and general cooking.

Ken

[ivorthediver]

Can't answer the question ITD, but the 'INDIVIDUAL CABINS' had me in fits of laughter.........what a treat that would have been.


Regards
Alan

Glad to make you happy Alan....but I have never been on a Navy ship other than a small section of a sub in the late 60's

Regards Ivor

[harry.gibbon]

Well now;
ITD may not be too far off the mark now-a-days ... it's a whole lot different to the Cavalier which we know he has visited since opening the thread.
Here is an extract from the Royal Navy MOD site about Daring the type 45:-

-----------------

Living conditions on board are the best in the
Fleet. Most Officers have single cabins, Senior
Ratings live in either single or double-berth
cabins and have a separate Senior Rates’ mess.
Junior Ratings live in 2 or 6 berth cabins, with a
shared central mess incorporating a recreational
space, TV room, and quiet room. This modern
approach to Junior Ratings’ accommodation is
very different to the messdecks of older ships
and offers a much better living environment.

------------------

it's all here:-

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/upload/pdf/HMS_Daring_Leaflet_low.pdf

[oldsalt]

It may be a much better living environment but what would it be like in war time? There seems to be a lot of small spaces. :(:(

[qprdave]

Must be a nightmare for a P.O.S. P/O. He knew exactly where to go to find skulking hands. Down the messdeck. Now he will have to go knocking on bedroom doors!!!!!!!

[ivorthediver]

Yes Keith , good point there ,


do they increase fresh water storage on the new type 45's or is it the same old system of converting sea water in use on the new ships :confused:

[Destroyerman]

Probably a bit of both Ivor.;)

Not having set foot on a commissioned naval vessel since 'release', I really don't know. (Ooops, apart from HMS FEARLESS on her return home 14-7-82).:o

But I imagine that the redundant 'feed' water tanks may now be either 'fresh water' or 'diesel fuel' now, or even 'Avtur' or 'Avgas', whatever the paraffin pigeons are fed with.

However, modern ships would still carry distillation units (evaporators in our day).;)

Sandy.

[ivorthediver]

Thanks Sandy, thought you would know ........

Would you know if their usage per head is greater or lesser than before
bearing in mind the more general usage now days
one assumes that this is reflected in all services ......I know when my son came back from his first tour of duty from the gulf he was very angry about water usage and still gets up tight about it :o

[Destroyerman]

Fresh water usage is always critical on board warships Ivor.

The common assumption is that as we are invariably surrounded by the stuff, there is plenty to go around. The only crew members who were totally aware of this were the people who had to distil and produce the rather important fluid. Others wasted it unneccessarily.

In the days of steam, the only water with any priority was 'feed water', that which was required for the boilers. 'Fresh water' was also distilled, but at a higher salinity and consequently a proportionately higher output than feed water.

Only if and when the feed water quota reached a critical operational percentage then fresh water could be distilled.

Nowadays, with gas turbine propulsion, feed water is no longer the precious commodity it used to be.

I would imagine with a greater mix of male/female ratings on board modern ships (stand by for incoming) that water usage has increased per head of crew. We never had fresh water bidets in my time.:rolleyes:

Since modern ships do not employ the use of steam, in my experience, electrically operated distillation plants are not as efficient as steam plants. So the output suffers.:rolleyes:

Therefore we still have the age old maritime problem, "water, water everywhere, and nary a drop to drink".

But always remember, the leading stokers and stokers who 'steamed' the evaporators were a very consciencious bunch, and tried to squeeze every last drop of distillate from their charges.

They were aware that their ability to do their job affected both the operational range of their ship and also the morale of the crew.:rolleyes:

Sandy. (Evap watchkeeper for 12 years).

[oldsalt]

From personnel experience' I can vouch that the Senior Engineer in Ark Royal (big one) was on the verge of a nervious breakdown & was given tranquilisers mainly because of the heavy losses of feed water.

[ivorthediver]

Fresh water usage is always critical on board warships Ivor.

The common assumption is that as we are invariably surrounded by the stuff, there is plenty to go around. The only crew members who were totally aware of this were the people who had to distil and produce the rather important fluid. Others wasted it unneccessarily.

In the days of steam, the only water with any priority was 'feed water', that which was required for the boilers. 'Fresh water' was also distilled, but at a higher salinity and consequently a proportionately higher output than feed water.

Only if and when the feed water quota reached a critical operational percentage then fresh water could be distilled.

Nowadays, with gas turbine propulsion, feed water is no longer the precious commodity it used to be.

I would imagine with a greater mix of male/female ratings on board modern ships (stand by for incoming) that water usage has increased per head of crew. We never had fresh water bidets in my time.:rolleyes:

Since modern ships do not employ the use of steam, in my experience, electrically operated distillation plants are not as efficient as steam plants. So the output suffers.:rolleyes:

Therefore we still have the age old maritime problem, "water, water everywhere, and nary a drop to drink".

But always remember, the leading stokers and stokers who 'steamed' the evaporators were a very consciencious bunch, and tried to squeeze every last drop of distillate from their charges.

They were aware that their ability to do their job affected both the operational range of their ship and also the morale of the crew.:rolleyes:

Sandy. (Evap watchkeeper for 12 years).

Thanks Sandy ....so how do they get over the problem now please :confused:

[Destroyerman]

Thanks Sandy ....so how do they get over the problem now please :confused:

Short answer Ivor, careful management and water rationing (t'was always thus) as necessary.;)

Sandy.

[ivorthediver]

Short answer Ivor, careful management and water rationing (t'was always thus) as necessary.;)

Sandy.

Thank you Sandy .........no lessons learnt from experience then eh:confused:

[Dave Hutson]

Confession time.

We don't often think about the work that goes into providing the fresh water when the tanks, full when leaving harbour, are depleted. The klankies down below worked their woolley sox off to provide water, sadly sometimes not enough to sustain the demand which then resulted in some form of rationing, particularly in the older generations of ships. Thanks Stokes - I always got a shower, compliments of you and my trusty dhoby bucket [standdown modern sailors, dhoby buckets to take a shower are a part of history - clean your teeth, have a shave, do your dhobying and finally have a shower, all from one bucket of fresh water, WOW].

But let's not forget the live steam drain - a multitude of uses, boil yer ovies, heat the soup or kye - take yer pick.

Ivor - you should have been there lad.

Dave H

[ivorthediver]

Confession time.

We don't often think about the work that goes into providing the fresh water when the tanks, full when leaving harbour, are depleted. The klankies down below worked their woolley sox off to provide water, sadly sometimes not enough to sustain the demand which then resulted in some form of rationing, particularly in the older generations of ships. Thanks Stokes - I always got a shower, compliments of you and my trusty dhoby bucket [standdown modern sailors, dhoby buckets to take a shower are a part of history - clean your teeth, have a shave, do your dhobying and finally have a shower, all from one bucket of fresh water, WOW].

But let's not forget the live steam drain - a multitude of uses, boil yer ovies, heat the soup or kye - take yer pick.

Ivor - you should have been there lad.

Dave H

You have no idea how I wish I could have been Dave ....if you had read my early posts on the Forum you would know just how much I wanted to ......but as a Stoker and working my way up ......I envy the friends I have as Stokers on the Forum and the tales they weave and descriptions of their lives on board RN SHIPS

ASk Terry............ he knows me better than most of you :o

[Destroyerman]

Confession time.

We don't often think about the work that goes into providing the fresh water when the tanks, full when leaving harbour, are depleted. The klankies down below worked their woolley sox off to provide water, sadly sometimes not enough to sustain the demand which then resulted in some form of rationing, particularly in the older generations of ships. Thanks Stokes - I always got a shower, compliments of you and my trusty dhoby bucket [standdown modern sailors, dhoby buckets to take a shower are a part of history - clean your teeth, have a shave, do your dhobying and finally have a shower, all from one bucket of fresh water, WOW].

But let's not forget the live steam drain - a multitude of uses, boil yer ovies, heat the soup or kye - take yer pick.

Ivor - you should have been there lad.

Dave H

Bless you Dave, in a nutshell sir!

Your description of the humble dhobey bucket almost brings it into line with Aladdins Lamp!!

I feel a naval song coming on ............................. ;):D

Sandy.

[clevewyn]

But let's not forget the live steam drain - a multitude of uses, boil yer ovies, heat the soup or kye - take yer pick.

A quick blast into the bilges was good for scaring the wit out of the unwary as well :)

[Dave Hutson]

Bless you Dave, in a nutshell sir!

Your description of the humble dhobey bucket almost brings it into line with Aladdins Lamp!!

I feel a naval song coming on ............................. ;):D

Sandy.


Could if be "Alf a pound of flour and rice, etc" and that from a Pompey Lad [Brighton} wot sold is life for an Oggie. :eek::D:D:cool:

[Destroyerman]

Could if be "Alf a pound of flour and rice, etc" and that from a Pompey Lad [Brighton} wot sold is life for an Oggie. :eek::D:D:cool:

Nope Dave, if I remember the first line went:

"Oh there once was a lad called Aladdin who had a magic lamp ........." tra la la la de dah........:D:cool:

Sandy.

[alanandbren]

Nope Dave, if I remember the first line went:

"Oh there once was a lad called Aladdin who had a magic lamp ........." tra la la la de dah........:D:cool:

Sandy.

I think you'l find it was a wonderful lamp, or at least it was in my day.

Alan

[Scurs]

Must be memory thingmebobblywotsit failing.........I joined RN same year as Alan, and I thought the word in that song was "magic", not "wonderful"................any how "He rubbed and he rubbed..................." tra la. :D

[alanandbren]

Must be memory thingmebobblywotsit failing.........I joined RN same year as Alan, and I thought the word in that song was "magic", not "wonderful"................any how "He rubbed and he rubbed..................." tra la. :D

Quite right Scurs, I stand corrected, Fall in "off caps".

Alan

[Destroyerman]

..... and to diplomatically steer us back to the thread 'proper', herewith my plumbing dit for the day.:D

HMS ARK ROYAL 1973-4 operating more than walking distance from Lands End. One of the six (or eight) salvage pumps went duff. These monsters, shaped similar to a Dalek but ten times bigger and located deep within the bowels of the ship, were used to counterbalance the ship, especially during flying stations. They were capable of transferring over 200 tons of fluid per hour, port to starboard and vice versa, and were vital to the ship.

A replacement pump was being flown out from UK, so the powers that be decided it would be a good idea to make a full scale wooden mock-up in order to plan a shipping route within the ship to get the duff one out and the new one in.

The mock-up would be made in the shipwrights shop, immediately beneath the flight deck.

Once completed, they decided to move the mock-up to the most opportune starting point of the shipping route.

This is where the first problem occurred.

It wouldn't fit through the door of the shipwrights shop.:eek::o:o:o

The door had to be removed and a facilitating hole cut out of the bulkheads to get the monster out!!:rolleyes::D

But, following this minor hurdle, the evolution was eventually carried out successfully.:D;)

Sandy.

[clevewyn]

Another incident I remember from the Ark, catapult room.

During a launch I heard a clunk somewhere in the background, obviously metal striking metal so thumbs down catapult US till investigated.

One of the ¾” unbrako bolts had sheered and dropped off the tensioning jack and was lying on the deck.
After a few tests all seemed to be working OK, just one bold missing so it was decided to shore the back of the tension jack with a bit of heavy timber just in case.

About two and a half feet behind the jack was the bulkhead with one of the steel ribs in just the right place so we got our rules out to measure the space in between.

Now all we ever used was the 12” steel rule (usually kept in the pocket with the wheel spanner) and Mac`s and mine together were still too short to measure the gap so he being the tiffy and having all the brains got a broom handle and broke it in two.

The measure was something like 3 inches longer than the short bit of the broom handle and 2½ inches shorter than the long bit.

This was duly written down and off went the pump room stoker to the chippy to get a lump of timber and a few wedges, armed with his bit of paper and bits of broom handle of course.

You couldn`t make it up.

[ivorthediver]

Another incident I remember from the Ark, catapult room.

During a launch I heard a clunk somewhere in the background, obviously metal striking metal so thumbs down catapult US till investigated.

One of the ¾” unbrako bolts had sheered and dropped off the tensioning jack and was lying on the deck.
After a few tests all seemed to be working OK, just one bold missing so it was decided to shore the back of the tension jack with a bit of heavy timber just in case.

About two and a half feet behind the jack was the bulkhead with one of the steel ribs in just the right place so we got our rules out to measure the space in between.

Now all we ever used was the 12” steel rule (usually kept in the pocket with the wheel spanner) and Mac`s and mine together were still too short to measure the gap so he being the tiffy and having all the brains got a broom handle and broke it in two.

The measure was something like 3 inches longer than the short bit of the broom handle and 2½ inches shorter than the long bit.

This was duly written down and off went the pump room stoker to the chippy to get a lump of timber and a few wedges, armed with his bit of paper and bits of broom handle of course.

You couldn`t make it up.


Sat here chuckling to myself at your graphic recall of the event ......:D

[Destroyerman]

It's Heath Robinson at its bestest innit?:D:rolleyes:

As "tanky" on the ARK ROYAL, same period and alongside somewhere foreign, I had a phone call from Commander Air whilst on watch in HQ2.

Phone rings "HQ2, LM(E) Sandy speaking".

"Commander Air here, we appear to have a three degree list to .....er .....port".

"That's correct sir, can I ask, what's the position of aircraft on deck?"

"Er .... fourteen Phantoms on the port side and two Gannets on the starboard side".

"Well sir, if you were to move eight of the Phantoms over to the starboard side ............."

"DON'T YOU BLOODY WELL TELL ME WHAT TO DO WITH MY AIRCRAFT, GET THE SHIP UPRIGHT!!!!!!"

Touched a nerve there I think.:rolleyes:

Damned part timers, thinking that there is no dissimilarity between a floating steel flight deck and a shore based concrete runway.:p

I just wondered if pillocks like him had ever encountered the difficulties of keeping a canoe upright.:D:D:D:D:D

This dit is in keeping with the thread proper as it involves the counterflooding required to keep the flying platform upright despite the contrary efforts of those who should know better.:D:rolleyes:

Sandy.

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Sandy . Think I threw some light on that one in a previous post/thread. As you know it weren't no picnic down in DCHQ during flying stations. One off Port Cat - compensate weight by pumping [pump started by handpumping a big wooden lever] water Stbd to Port. On of Stbd Cat - do it agen the other way and so on. Bloody Birdmen "Why don't they pump it themselves" was the call. Happy days.

Dave H

[clevewyn]

True to say that firing them both at the same time would have been much more exciting.

[oldsalt]

The Ark was getting to be in a sorry state, while I was onboard the port Jet Blast Deflector was held in place by a metal bar allowing pressure to be taken off the operating piston, the stay bar was positioned by a Mk1 Stoker + one deck hocky stick. I might add charging catapult with steam was done at such a rate "B" boilers primed causing a lot of damage.

[ivorthediver]

The Ark was getting to be in a sorry state, while I was onboard the port Jet Blast Deflector was held in place by a metal bar allowing pressure to be taken off the operating piston, the stay bar was positioned by a Mk1 Stoker + one deck hocky stick. I might add charging catapult with steam was done at such a rate "B" boilers primed causing a lot of damage.


I have said it before and I will say it again .........this is what I love about our Forum .............the stories that are recalled by those who worked their butts off doing the jobs detailed in posts on the threads

Puts life into dry facts .....which with a little thought.... bring home the effort that went into keeping a ship operational :D

Thank you lads very grateful for your recollections of past issues

[oldsalt]

Ivor, are you feeling OK, such praise could go to our heads!!!

[ivorthediver]

Ivor, are you feeling OK, such praise could go to our heads!!!


No Keith .......Have every confidence in our collection of ships Engineers on the Forum ....reliable , factual , knowledgeable, discerning , polite .....

unlike me who has a lot to learn yet , does not suffer fools gladly , has an
insatiable appetite for information on ships and our Naval history ....with very little first hand information :o

[clevewyn]

Well if you don`t ask you may never learn I always think.

[ivorthediver]

Thank you ,

I hope I don't upset to many in my quest for information :(

I love anything mechanical , and have ruined a few things taking them apart to see how they work :o