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whalecatcher
14-02-2011, 18:54
Can anyone with an Italian background advise how steering orders are given nowadays in Italian speaking ships? In the late 19th and early 20th century all sea-going nations independently did away with the centuries-old practice of giving the orders to the helmsman in terms of 'helm' (tiller). Until that point, the order "Port the helm!" meant "Turn the top of the wheel to starboard, so that the tiller shall go to port, but the ship will turn to starboard." Nowdays, this seems very strange, but it caused no confusion at the time when the tradition went back centuries, and the underlying mechanics were understood by everyone.

When the change was made in the United States Navy (1913), to make it clear that the 'new' system of steering commands was in use, the form of the order was altered to" 'Right rudder!' and 'Left rudder!!'. A similar plan would would have worked for other countries, but in fact for the most part they retained the equivalents of the traditional terms Port and Starboard, but with reversed meaning. [The RN changed in 1930] Italy was a special case since they were the the one European country which had always used 'left' and 'right' in giving orders to the helmsman, even at a time when everyone else used 'starboard' and 'port', or similar specific nautical terms. The old forms were: Dritto! (A dritta!) and Sinistro! (A sinistra!)

The question, is did they retain the old form of orders with reversed meaning, or perhaps adopt equivalents for starboard (Tribordo) and port (Babordo). I would also be interested if anyone can date when the Italian Navy made the change.

Whalecatcher

Three Mike Port
17-02-2011, 02:00
Something that always amused me that I thought I would share, in the movie Titanic (James Cameron) it shows the iceberg collision sequence and the command given to the helmsman by the OOW is 'Hard-a-Starboard' , I was always amused that the helmsman then turned the wheel frantically to port.
I wasnt sure if the OOW fluffed his lines or the helmsman turned the wrong way.

I always thought that was a mistake in the movie, a historical inaccuracy but it appears that from the post above I may be wrong and the command and subsequent action were correct.

You learn something every day.

**For those who might give me a gentle ribbing on the issue, I was an engineer in the navy and not of the executive branch, the only time I went on the bridge was to change lamps.

By the way, the link to that particular clip is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqQXXVowh90 ignore the beginning.

patroclus
17-02-2011, 02:18
Hello Chris:

You might wish to peruse this thread:

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?p=113766&highlight=helm+orders#post113766

Three Mike Port
17-02-2011, 03:42
Thanks for the link Patroclus, that was quite interesting. Apologies for bringing up an issue already dealt with.

bezukhov
08-07-2011, 11:20
Hi

I'm Italian, but I've never served the Navy so what I know I learnt it on the books. The terms "babordo" and "tribordo" are not used, as far as I know they are translations from French. The correct terms are "sinistra" e "dritta" (left and right).

If anyone find this incorrect, please let me know so I'll learn something new:)

whalecatcher
08-07-2011, 22:52
[QUOTE=bezukhov;1718165]Hi

I'm Italian, but I've never served the Navy so what I know I learnt it on the books. The terms "babordo" and "tribordo" are not used, as far as I know they are translations from French. The correct terms are "sinistra" e "dritta" (left and right).

Many thanks to Michele for establishing the modern form of the steering orders. Some nations, notably the United States, switched to 'right' and 'left' when they made the change for indirect 'helm' orders to direct 'rudder' orders. The remarkable thing is that among major European tongues, only in Italian were 'sinistra' and 'dritta' in use as steering orders BEFORE the switch was made. [Heinrich Röding *Allgemeines Wörterbuch der Marine* (c.1794). As compared to Port the Helm!, Babord la Barre! Babor el Timon! etc., Italian had Timone alla Sinistra!] The US Navy's switch to 'Right' and 'Left Rudder' was made to avoid confusion, and I had wondered if the Italian Marine might have made a change in the opposite direction so to speak, for similar reasons. Clearly this was not the case. An article on the History of Helm Orders will appear in the June issue of the Nautical Research Journal.

Whalecatcher

Davide
28-10-2011, 18:20
Good evening everyone,

I am an Italian Merchant Marine Deck Officer and I served in the Navy too, and I can confirm that we do use 'dritta' and 'sinistra'.
Actually 'dritta', which means starboard side, is being used only in the maritime industry.
'right' in Italian is translated as 'destra' and it is not used on board the ships.

p.s. I have still to introduce myself in thjer right thread, but let me congratulate for the high quality of this forum!!