The 3rd Canadian Cruiser

[BCRenown]

It has long been my understanding that at the Quebec Conference in 1943, the RCN agreed to take over and man three British cruisers. In the end only two (Uganda and Ontario) found their way to the RCN. Does anyone know or care to speculate on the name of the third cruiser?

Monty

[EwenS]

George Moore in Building for Victory p95 notes that, at the instigation of the Canadians, the War Cabinet had agreed in late Autumn 1943 the gift of 2 Fiji class cruisers to Canada. The 2 originally selected were Minotaur and Superb originally due for completion in June and August 1944. The latter was considerably delayed in the shipyard so Uganda was substituted instead. These transfers were agreed by the cabinet on 6 December 1943.

Minotaur finally completed as Ontario in April 1945 while Uganda was taken over by the Canadians in October 1944 while refitting in the USA.

All the sources I have, have only ever mentioned the intention to transfer 2 cruisers. Perhaps the continuously changing completion dates leading to reallocations accounts for the idea of a third cruiser being intended for the RCN.

This plan also included 2 fleet destroyers. These were probably Algonquin and Sioux formerly Valentine and Vixen which completed in Feb / Mar 1944.

Subsequently at the end of 1944 further transfers were agreed including 2 light fleet carriers (in place of the 2 escort carriers Nabob & Puncher) and a flotilla of fleet destroyers. All these ships were to be on loan.

The light carriers were to be Warrior & Magnificent due to complete in Sept & Dec 1945. Various changes were then proposed depending on expected completion dates, yards and crew availibility. Other carriers mentioned included Majestic and Powerful. In the end Warrior (completed March 1946) & Magnificent (completed 1948) were transferred with the former being returned in the 1950's in exchange for Powerful which was purchased by Canada and became Bonaventure.

The destroyers would have been the Cr group. Only 2, Crescent & Crusader, were transferred in Sept & Nov 1945.

Throughout this period the Admiralty faced problems of
1 lack of men to crew ships and
2 lack of resources and competing priorities leading to completion dates being constantly delayed.

The transfer of ships to the Dominions helped with the first of these.

I'd be interested to hear anyone else's comments on this topic.

EwenS

[BCRenown]

Ewen,

Thanks for your detailed reply. Perhaps I am mistaken and there were only 2 cruisers earmarked for the RCN to begin with, but I was sure a third cruiser was somewhere in the mix.

Monty

[culverin]

Additionally, at this time, the RN did not have a clue what future cruisers it may or may not get.
The whole story of British cruiser construction during the 1940's and in to the 50's is totally shambolic, and extremely complex.

[Brian Wentzell]

BC Renown:

There was a third WW2 cruiser. HMCS Prince Robert was acquired and initially armed as an Armed Merchant Cruiser. She was refitted in 1943 as an Anti-Aircraft Cruiser (with five twin 4" HA mountings) and served until decommissioned in 1945. Her sister ships HMC Ships Prince David and Prince Henry were initailly converted to Armed Merchant Cruisers but in 1943 were converted to Landing Ships Infantry and served in the Med and Normandy theatres. All three survived the war and returned to merchant service.

Brian

[ludsie]

I've discovered several references to hms emerald (e class cruiser) being transferred to the rcn after d day. The specifics aren't clear but the deal did not go through. Probably dueto the fact they were so old

[Brian Wentzell]

Ludsie:

Late in WW2 the RN was trying to get the RCN and the Government of Canada to take on two aircraft carriers and supporting ships for employment in the final phases of the Pacific War against Japan. The Canadian Prime Minister, Mackenzie-King, having been burned in the defence of Hong Kong debacle in 1941, was determined not to get the country embroiled in a British led effort in the western Pacific. The compromise was that Canada would assist the allies in that portion of the Pacific that was within Canada's interest. Ships were in the process of being prepared for tropical service but the war ended before many ships were actually deployed. HMCS Prince Robert, the Anti-Aircraft "Cruiser", was at Hong Kong in 1945 to recover the Canadian Army survivors from the disgusting and brutal Japanese POW camps.

With that decision, the need for two active carriers, a third cruiser and all seven "C" Class destroyers evaporated. The carriers did arrive but only one entered service, HMCS/HMS Warrior, and she was replaced by HMCS/HMS Magnificent when she commissioned soon thereafter in the late 1940s.

Brian

[BlackBat242]

Subsequently at the end of 1944 further transfers were agreed including 2 light fleet carriers (in place of the 2 escort carriers Nabob & Puncher) and a flotilla of fleet destroyers. All these ships were to be on loan.

The light carriers were to be Warrior & Magnificent due to complete in Sept & Dec 1945. Various changes were then proposed depending on expected completion dates, yards and crew availibility. Other carriers mentioned included Majestic and Powerful. In the end Warrior (completed March 1946) & Magnificent (completed 1948) were transferred with the former being returned in the 1950's in exchange for Powerful which was purchased by Canada and became Bonaventure.

EwenS

Ludsie:

Late in WW2 the RN was trying to get the RCN and the Government of Canada to take on two aircraft carriers and supporting ships for employment in the final phases of the Pacific War against Japan.

With that decision, the need for two active carriers, a third cruiser and all seven "C" Class destroyers evaporated. The carriers did arrive but only one entered service, HMCS/HMS Warrior, and she was replaced by HMCS/HMS Magnificent when she commissioned soon thereafter in the late 1940s.

Brian

Actually, HMCS Warrior was commissioned into the RCN on 24/1/1946 and returned to the RN on 23/3/48*.

HMCS Magnificent was commissioned into the RCN on 7/4/1948 and returned to the RN on 14/6/57**.

HMCS Bonaventure (ex-Powerful) was commissioned into the RCN on 17/1/1957, paid off on 3/7/1970, and sold for scrap (towed to Taiwan in 1971, and scrapped there).



* Initially commissioned into the RN on 2 April 1945, re-commissioned into the RN November 1948, decommissioned February 1958, sold to Argentina in 1958, and finally placed in reserve in 1970 and sold for scrap in 1971.

** placed directly into reserve upon arrival, and scrapped in July 1965.