Things You Would Like to See? [Archive] - World Naval Ships Forums

13-09-2007, 16:05

Thanks for your input Tim.

Obviously we could not make this site without people such as yourself making contributions. You have gone out of your way to contribute a large number of superb images, and for that we (who own and run the site) are very grateful, as I'm sure are our visitors.

Here are the ways we have so far tried to get people in to this forum:

1. We placed a decent sized banner advert on every page of the original site at battleships-cruisers.co.uk
2. We are in the process of emailing all those people who originally sent in messages under the old system, to let them know that the forum exists.
3. We have sent out newsletters to all of our customers (from our commercial websites) which included small articles announcing this forum, as well as giving special offers with membership on some of our naval photos.
4. We have set up an online shop to make the purchasing of naval photos etc easier from our sites. Not only that, but the way the shop works allows very good placement on google and other search engines where people search for ship names - and of course we let these customers know about the forum.

That said, we would love to spend all of our time on our naval sites, but its just not possible unfortunately, as we need to work on our commercial sites in order to fund these ones if you see what I mean. While there are numerous very good sites with technical specs and histories of the ships, we try to focus more on the crews of the ships where we can, and try to generate information that is useful for people trying to find out about relatives, while still providing photos and details of the ships they served on where we can.

Of course, we are always open to suggestions on how to improve our sites - its just finding the time to implement those suggestions that can be difficult! :)

Then of course there is the massive backlog of thousands of photos and articles which we still have to add to the site.

shelleyw

24-09-2007, 21:39

My grandfather and I also have pictures I would be willing to submit, however I am not sure what is in every picture

Alan B

25-09-2007, 08:03

Hi Shelley

If they are photos of ships you haven't got names for then put them on this forum. There's people who can help recognise them. I for one like to see different photos of old ships. You never know you might have some gems there that people have been looking for for years.

All the best
Alan

tim lewin

05-10-2007, 04:22

I think from looking at what initially brings people in search of information things like crew lists are quite high priority although actually, most people already know that their relative served in such and such a ship, the list only confirms it. Once they know for sure that someone was really in that ship they start to need to know if anyone remembers them, then it will be what he did, how he lived and what the ship was up to ni the time he served. Crew lists without the history as sterile data. To me, the most valuable of all is to collect the real memories of crew before nature takes them beyond our reach!
tim

tonclass

11-10-2007, 07:31

Would it be possible to have other categories in the main thread such as Australian/New Zealand/Argentinian/Chilean/Brazilian Navies rather than the Italian Navy which has had no hits at all as yet ? As this is a UK forum, they would be much more appropriate as we have allocated/sold many ex-RN vessels to these countries in the past - And still do.
Rgds
Rik

HMS Bergamot

03-11-2007, 18:43

Oh, no, I have much material to include on the Italian Navy (especially WW1). Ok, it hasn't had any hits yet, but wait till I get my stuff out of the loft!

I stumbled accidentally over this site, whilst browsing, but the first thing I found was a request from the relative of a survivor from my Grandfathers ship. Talk about complete co-incidence. Course, I'm hooked now!

Regards

piffypalmer

19-11-2007, 19:31

Video footage if possible.

stewart mcloughlin

03-12-2007, 19:40

Hello All, from a new boy.

Came across the site by accident only a few days ago. Am researching our village war memorials seeking to build biographies of each of our casualties from WW1 and WW2 (or any other for that matter, I already have one Boer War) and some detail of the ships/units in which they served or were attached at the time. Basic details I look for are confirmation that the casualty was on the ship, pictures of the ship, daily diary of events leading to incident involving casualty, CWGC record. The thing is, these details are not all in one place. National archives, museums, newspapers, shipmates/old comrades associations, interested groups or individualrs etc., but there is not one place that has it all.
Surprised that my recent inquiries for naval information have not led to being pointed in this direction.
I gather from the above that the site has had a recent re-launch of some description.
As a newcomer may I be so bold as to suggest to 'advertise' yourself to the Royal British Legion, to the Federation of Family History Societies and similar organisations down to Branch Secretary level or whatever similar. One of the first things I have done in my research is to appeal to such organisations to get me going. Built in links to any similar Army or Airforce sites.
I have recently obtained significant information from the rafcommands.com's magnificent contributors, without whom I could not have done my research. I get the early impression that this site has similar like-minded people with a vast array of knowledge.
I have little knowledge of the military services but have been involved in family history research for some time and may be able to offer small hints or avenues that enquirers may follow.
May I take the opportunity of thanking all of you who offer freely of your knowledge and time to ensure that they are not forgotten.
Stewart McLoughlin

04-12-2007, 15:42

Thanks for your input Stewart, and everyone else that has contributed.

You are right in saying that the site has had a relaunch of sorts. Our original site (www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk (http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk)) is still going strong, but has limited search engine impact partly due to being a .co.uk site and various other factor we felt we could put right.

However, the realistic opportunity to add a forum only came with making a new site, so we made essentially a duplicate of the original site which also housed this very forum, giving our visitors the opportunity to communicate with each other and not just through us. Our intention is to keep the old site alive and updated regularly as it stands, but move this site away from the original by way of the technology we use to 'make' the website. It will still hold the same information, but will be far easier to find what you are looking for. Anyway, I digress.

We are always looking for suggestions on how to improve the site, whether we have the time and resources to implement them or not, and I will certainly look into some or all of the above suggestions.

The Sailor

23-12-2007, 20:59

Well, I would like to see "Spell Check", added.
Also flags under the avatars of each member to show nationality.
This mark of board does in fact support both of these.

As an Australian I'd very much like to see an 'Australian ships and crews' section added to the list.

stewart mcloughlin

24-12-2007, 13:58

Just another thought.
Is it possible to post in a separate part of the site, those major war memorials like Plymouth, Portsmouth, RNPS at Lowestoft etc. showing the names on each individual panel that are referred too on CWGC. Being a 'northerner' past Watford Gap it is somewhat difficult to get down to these memorials and with my research, I should like to enter a photo' of the particular panel.
I visited the Menin Gate at Ypres, Belgium, this year and the Canadians are in the process of/completed this on 'the Gate' as a project. Don't know if they have got some funding for this. Maybe someone over here could consider likewise for our 'unburied'. I have no experience with H.M. Navy, or any other military for that matter, and wouldn't know how to start it off, maybe someone on the forum has connections. I was thinking on the level that anyone researching a casualty listed on a particular panel, could remotely access and download it. Many researchers of course would be overseas who can't possibly d-i-y it.
There is the Runnymede Memorial for the Air Force of course, is there a memorial for the Army anywhere?
Stewart McLoughlin

warbreck

05-03-2008, 21:54

I am new to the site and can not decide of what I would like to see. I am overwhelmed with the multiude of areas to go to. I did not go looking for RN ships, I was checking my sons service in the USA Coast Guard which led me to this site, odd!!. I have quite a few photo's of my time in the RN of ships, shipmates, crews and places, that I am willing to donate to the site, if you would like them. I am not sure whether its better send by post or e-mail. I'm now 77 and seems a shame that they may disappear after I am gone. warbreck.

tonclass

05-03-2008, 22:24

Warbeck,

I'm sure the whole site would love to see what photo's you may have to share !!

It's great of you to join our happy band of Naval enthusiasts and look forward to anything you may have to post. Can I ask that you scan any photo's in a large format (1024 pixels wide as minimum) so that we may all enjoy them to the fullest ?
Rgds
Rik

DJBlackburn

06-03-2008, 02:22

After being here awhile as an initial first-timer, now that any novelty has worn off a bit, I have noticed myself finding less material of personal interest, to me.

This has caused me to re-rank the forum away from the upper-end of my priority sites menu. It has nothing to do with the site's quality nor with the valued opinions of the "regulars" here, and if anything, I feel there needs to be even more attention and visitorship--it's a fine venue!

That said (well, written anyway), the one rub that stands out for me, is the present mixing of ships' technical/historical topics with those of crew research. Threads beginning with the name of a ship in which I have a technical or historic interest always grab my attention, but quickly lose that interest when I find the topic crew-search related. I am sure the opposite applies, as well.

I am not complaining about the site's purpose--crew and genealogical inquiries are a noble and vital service, in fact much higher on any scale of importance than "what-if" battle scenarios or the discussion of boiler pressures. Rather, I would like to see a clear separation of the categories, perhaps on the model of that found at the HMS Hood Association© website.

I think such a division would better serve all interests.

Kevin Denlay

06-03-2008, 02:29

Yes, have to agree with DJ. Nothing worse than getting into a thread on a particular subject of interest only to see it morph into something not related, or even worse, 'politcal' debates.

K

cissystar650

06-03-2008, 08:56

Maybe a 'looking for' section for those who simply wish to post about an ancestor or family member?

herakles

06-03-2008, 18:41

I can't help but think there's just about something here for everyone.

Things seem to me to be working rather well right now.

Those with an intense interest and knowledge are well catered for as are those who are only vaguely aware of the difference between "stern" and "bow"!

Personally I'm very interested in the history angle. I've learned a lot since starting here. And as an army man have come to appreciate the naval side of things.

As I see it, the thing most needed here is more active members!

06-03-2008, 22:12

the one rub that stands out for me, is the present mixing of ships' technical/historical topics with those of crew research.

Interesting point. Just wanted to let you know I was reading all of these. How would you suggest a change would be made to fix this for you? Would we need to move all the existing threads too? Just curious for suggestions - the only way I could see to achieve this would be to essentially double the number of categories on the forum, one for crews and one for ships, then there are of course those that cross over.

The reason for this site being perhaps more weighted to crews and relatives is probably historic. What I mean by that is that the original aim of the site was to have as many pages for individual ships as possible, allowing ex-crew and families to come on and see photos of that ship and the crew. This was borne, I believe, out of frustration that something like that was not readily available - for free - on the internet, at least not for many ships. There are sites that do the technical details of ships better than us, there are some that do historical details better, but I believe that we cater for something that a lot of other sites miss, I don't know what that is, but the amount of visitors we get certainly shows me there is something. Now that we have a forum things are changing a little because we attract all kinds of experts and novices. But it is the nature of the original site that creates the visitors to the forum, and I think this is the reason.

Keep the ideas coming. :)

romft1945

06-03-2008, 22:55

KC I agree with Herks

Dont make the site to big and as for a thread, one for each ship, if it ever happened would make it enormous

Like a few comments made already when a thread is opened lets keep it to what it was intended for,on a few of them people tend to drift off the chosen subject,which can be very annoying

All in all a good informative site keep at it lads and lassies

ROMFT:)

astraltrader

06-03-2008, 23:44

I think the advantage this site has compared to most I have visited is the whole balance of what is on offer here. I am convinced that a good range of Naval and related war-photographs will always be of great interest to a wide spectrum of visitors/posters.
A lively discussion of Naval ship and related subjects does go hand in hand with interesting photographs.
The few sites that do have more photographs than us tend to be just ship photographs one after the other [often recent photographs] - with no real historical interest and exchange of views around them...
Then of course there is, as has been mentioned the original relative/crew/shipmate dimension from which this forum was conceived. Although we have expanded greatly from that - IMO it should never be forgotten.
The number of posters here ready to try and help [often with scant thanks] people with their enquiries in this area, along with general requests for photo`s is impressive and will always be a draw for new people.
Furthermore I believe even if the new visitor/member has not even got around to googling their enquiry - they should always be greeted with a helpful and friendly response. It will always stand the forum in good stead as well as being something we can all take a pride in...
So in conclusion it is the overall mix of what we have to offer that is our greatest strength and what I believe will provide continual steady growth for the forseeable future. For proof of this one need look no further than in the results of the poll at the top of this thread. The percentages indicated clearly show this spread of interest...

al1934

09-03-2008, 17:18

I found this site by accident, through trying to help an enquirer on another site by googling her relative - Google led me here. I am already a member of other ex-servicemens' sites but this one seems to me to focus more on ships and people than statistics. I haven't had a chance to look it over thoroughly - probably never will because of it's variety - but I am intrigued by what I have found so far.

Well done!

astraltrader

10-03-2008, 16:18

Thanks,Alick. Feedback such as yours is always of great interest.

Stan.J

10-03-2008, 20:48

I for one look forward to requests from people, Whether or not they are ex Navy. It is interesting to see what input our members make to these requests. I have an fair few books on the First and second world wars. I am also a member of a WW1 forum and like to help answer requests there also. It does keep me away from the television. Thats a good thing and it also keeps my mind active, My body isnt so hot nowadays but keeping the mind going is stopping me go Ga.Ga!. I think this site is first rate.More power to your elbow.
Cheers. Stan

RCN

09-04-2008, 18:44

I would like to see more crew photos of Victorian era ships posted from those members that might have this type of photos in their collections. Dont see many of them, but some are still around.

& the idea Sailor floated of having flag of each member's nationalty posted is a good one as well,

Bryan (Canada)

herakles

09-04-2008, 20:56

I would like that too. Especially from the days of sail.

However there are obvious problems re age and limitations of photography at the time.

And, here I am rambling, there wasn't a huge amount of activity for the navy in the 19th century of a war-like nature. Most British fighting seems to have been done on land. That is of course AFTER Napoleon!

But one area this forum has almost nothing on - is the role of the RN in the Crimean war. If you can add to that, I for one would be most interested.

Re flags - when you create your avatar, why not stick the Maple Leaf in it as well?

astraltrader

09-04-2008, 22:11

He doesn`t need to Herk - his avatar is the emblem of the Royal Canadian Navy...

herakles

09-04-2008, 22:16

He doesn`t need to Herk - his avatar is the emblem of the Royal Canadian Navy...

I should have said - his signature.

oldsalt

30-10-2008, 20:55

How would you like to see this many sailors in one place again.:eek::eek::eek:;)

Wombat

10-12-2008, 03:26

Reading through the comments so far I think it’s worth adding that a forum is only as good as its members!

Personally since I joined this site, (having been told about it by a friend), I have not only found it fascinating, but the members are both friendly and knowledgeable, and I enjoy participating where I can.

I have noticed that the majority of members are based in the UK, and therefore have easy access to the actual places of historical interest being mentioned and discussed, but for those of us in more remote parts of the world, forums like this one provide not only information, but also contacts. Some of who are even prepared to go that extra mile to help out when it comes to information or even a particular photograph, if It’s of something near to where they are based. This is invaluable as a research aid and would not be available without the forum; therefore the growth of this forum doesn’t necessarily lie in the UK. It is an asset to anyone anywhere in the world with an interest in the Navy, no matter which country they belong to.

In the short time I have been visiting, it is obvious that this forum is growing from strength to strength, so when it comes to my suggestion for how to improve the site I can only quote something I have found to be true on many an occasion, which is: “IF IT AIN’T BROKE DON’T TRY AND FIX IT!”

Wombat,
(James).

james patience

10-12-2008, 09:05

Moderator
I can't really comment on things I would like to see as I am a recent recruit, however the info I needed was supplied in rapid time and in great detail that would probably have taken ages via other routes or websites, I still have lots of your site to explore and lots more info to obtain so maybe I will have a worthwhile comment at some later date, in the meantime thanks for a great site and for assistance received so far.

Seasons Greetings to all your contributors and visitors

"Be England what she will, for all her ills she is my country still"

Jame Patience :)

astraltrader

10-12-2008, 13:36

James - I am glad that you found the forum of great interest and its members knowledgeable and helpful. We look forward to your return!

Wombat - [also James!]-I am sure your comments will be appreciated by everybody here...

BECA@CLEAR.NET.NZ

04-01-2009, 09:09

I have only very recently joined this site but I am very impressed, both with the pictures and the quality of the users. In a very short time I have had cause to thank some of your members for their comments and assistance as I 'settle in'. This site has a good 'feel' to it and I look forward to being a member.

Batstiger

04-01-2009, 10:36

Thank you for those remarks Beca, it's great to get some positive feedback it makes it all the more worth while. !

Regards, Bob.

SCRG1970

04-01-2009, 12:20

Have just trawled through this thread and the general opinion seems to be that the forum is developing in a manner that appeals to most members. I guess there will always be topics that we consider are not covered but surely if this is the case start a THREAD!!
My general impression of the site is that we have a large number of members with a certain amount of expertise who are prepared to share their knowledge and collections. Personally I have acquired more information in the last few months than ever before.
The difference between other sites and this one is topics do not degenerate into slanging matches or `black-cat` situations. The lack of bad manners and bad language is refreshing and due to the superb organisation by the moderators.
Take from the forum what you wish but do try and contribute a little as well.

Regards

Gerry

astraltrader

04-01-2009, 14:55

Thanks Gerry - and excellent suggestions.

Long may this site remain free from as you say the unfriendliness and unpleasantness found on other sites.

Thank you.

gunnersmate

19-01-2009, 19:30

I can only applaud the "Sailor" a spell checker would be perfect, some of the posts really need one.
And the Flag to denote nationality is great.
As a lot of ex RN are joining the Australian and New Zealand Navies, an Australian ships and crews section would not be amiss.
Baz

19-01-2009, 20:34

There is a spell checker (it's the abc/tick logo near the top right when you reply to a post).

Also, a section for the Australian ships and crews was added many moons ago.

You will note that despite this 'The Sailor' chose to leave the forum, again many moons ago.

gunnersmate

25-01-2009, 18:11

Greetings KC,
I stand corrected, with knuckles rapped. Many apologies.
Baz. :( :(

MMM

04-02-2009, 13:11

As much of RN A - I class destroyers as possible (in prewar guise):D:D

Woodbutcher

06-02-2009, 04:09

Alick, Not related to this thread but, I like your moving White Ensign. Would you please post, On the Correct thread of course , how it's done? I'd like to do one for the NZ Ensign. I'm sure others would like to know as well. Thanks, Dagwood.:D

al1934

06-02-2009, 14:49

Dagwood, I must confess that I copied it, long ago, from another website - dunno where, though. I think the best place to post an enquiry is in the Shore Leave section in AVATARS. Someone more technical than I will help, I'm sure.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

Best wishes

Woodbutcher

07-02-2009, 23:51

Thanks Alick, Will try on site you recommended. Dagwood.

ivorthediver

02-03-2009, 20:13

Well having read the afore going comments I can see numorus points that need to be addressed
1/ if like me you are what is refered to nowdays as dyslexic[ just read some of my threads] I would love to have spell check onboard...I Know it is there but how to download it would be usefull as I have tried three times without any luck.
2/ I found this site by accicdent but I am so glad I did...the knowledge is staggering and the help ,modesty ,friendship , humour, and tech' assistance is nothing short of wonderful...ask Astral leader about the information on Gato subs CGRET recently supplied me
3/ I think the jobs that your moderators perform IS your lifeline to reality as they are so good and on the button they must live on this site !
4/ it would be churlish to single any individuels out ....but they know who they are .........as I go out of my way to say so.

I may be your worst nightmare as a member of this Forum ..but the Knowledge and help is unbelievable...AND FACTUAL..which is more important to me as I have had a gut full of self decleared know alls who know J.S.when compared to these guys

Take a bow [excuss pun] you have dma well earnt it shipmates

I'll go quitely know...my stokers need me.....

herakles

02-03-2009, 22:37

Nice comments!

Concerning a spell checker: if you use Mozilla's Firefox, there is an excellent addon dictionary. When loaded, it checks your typing immediately. You don't have to ask for a check. The dictionary exists in several forms, English, Australian etc.

berry

02-03-2009, 23:16

G'day All,just wanted to add my two bob's worth.Recently joined and I can honestly say that I really look forward to trawling throught whatever is available.The input from everyone is both informative and very knowledgeable
the scope of subjects is first rate. When I have a scanner which is operable I hope I can make more contributions with photos etc.I have been a warship 'nut' for as long as I can remember,and this site is,for me,manna from Heaven.
Rule Britannia,
Sid

ivorthediver

03-03-2009, 17:58

Thanks Herk ,

Thanks for the tip ref spelling and help on this site..... You see KC

You ask a question and its answered.

What ever you pay these guys It is not enough

{Did I do that right lads....don't forget me in the Wardroom}

astraltrader

04-03-2009, 11:15

You are right Ivor - it is not enough!!

ivorthediver

10-03-2009, 20:00

As time passes and one develops a personnel comfort zone...and becomes interactive with a group of members ...a bond develops which is both constructive and leads to a spin off of additional information which for the most part is amusing and enlightening

Whilst a large section off the "Hands" are Ex Navy and could be forgiven for being a little dulled by repetition of a subject matter.....from my view point
I find the banter a refreshing and provocative ingredient that stimulates further discussion and greater knowledge of the subject matter.

I am not privy to the forums operational infrastructure but I feel that perhaps some latitude would be in order here to promote a greater understanding of the subject being discussed

Is there not room therefore to extend some explanation of the formats frame work to enable its development

By way of example and explanation to my point ...I submit to you the thread currently running on "Poems and words of the Navel Man" which in addition to showing a good example of the written work's of skilled individual's , it has also provoked exchanges of information that have stirred up memories in others who did not go there to "speak" but to "read"

It seems a shame that this thread is to be terminated soon and that the work done by "Baz" would appear to be going unrecognised with no means of extending its valued passage..........

I am sorry if my comments seem out of place or disrespectful but as a researcher myself I have found the "Banter" encouraging and educational

astraltrader

10-03-2009, 21:05

Ivor - it might just be me and the fact that I have already enjoyed a few whiskeys but what do you mean by saying that the Poems thread started by Baz is to be terminated??

If so it is news to me my friend!:confused::confused:

ivorthediver

11-03-2009, 04:33

Hi Astraltrader, my comments were a ref: to the last page flag now displayed.

Regards Ivor

herakles

11-03-2009, 05:01

Ivor,

The thread is NOT going to be terminated! The words there mean that by clicking on it, you will be taken to the current page, in this case, the last one of the pages.

Note that several threads show this when the number of pages has become large.

At no time are threads terminated just because they have grown.

gunnersmate

11-03-2009, 13:48

Hi Herakles and Terry,
I must admit, stupidly, that I had come to the same conclusion as Ivor, and have eased off slightly of late. Not being a computer wizard, still learning. But I am very pleased that this is not the case. I still have a few more to go, but as in all things they will dry up eventually, but it's open to "all" so hopefully it will still be added too. I certainly never envisaged it to get this far? Many thanks to all concerned. :D :D

Baz.

astraltrader

11-03-2009, 15:30

That is fine my friend. There is no reason why your Poetry thread should not last as long as the forum itself!!

ivorthediver

11-03-2009, 19:29

qprdave

13-03-2009, 03:00

I am so glad my forebears won our right to be democratic and even handed,
its just a shame that the cost was so high to so many........

My PUBLIC THANKS to our two champions and Sir KC[well I've been promoted ..so should he for his clemency]

And on behalf of the "Stokers Mess" the drinks are on us [ always assuming you like either Gin or Beer.....we are still having problems with the quartermaster on the limited amount of sugar we can draw to make rum in the still ..but give us time shipmates ......give us time
I think that you have made a little slip, Ivor ( I hope that you have).

The Quartermaster in the Royal Navy steers the ship at sea when "Special Sea Dutymen" have fallen out (Entering/Leaving Harbour, R.A.S. etc). He also can be seen in the area of the gangway when alongside. He also runs the ships routine and recieves the shore telephone calls on a small ship.

He is also a seaman and I would be shocked that he supplies the stokers with the ingredients to make their illicit booze down in the Engine/Boiler Room and not supply his fellow seamen with the said ingredients.

To get these supplies you will have to have a quiet word with the Caterer or the Jack Dusties (Supply boys)

ivorthediver

13-03-2009, 04:44

Do you have a phone number our a contact there Dave , that should we ever wish to create [another] still...perish the thought... we could reach an agreement with?

Anon

sierra hotel

17-03-2009, 04:07

I would love to see a gallery on naval ships of all types going through the Panama Canal...
And I would like to see pictures of ships WEAPONS.... like, close ups of the RN Bofors guns, other AA guns old and new. Deck mounted secondary armaments, not just Commonwealth ships, but USN too, old and new. How can you tell I am a ship modeler!!!!

ivorthediver

17-03-2009, 04:59

Welcome to the club shipmate !

If you read some of the threads you will see that you have" Died and gone to heaven "

There are many people on this site with hearts of gold and what must be the most diverse "Stats" File ever amassed

If you ask the right person the right way ...you will get it ..at some point.

Another Modeller...........

ivorthediver

17-03-2009, 17:55

ltotenby

20-03-2009, 10:38

Hi, two days ago I came across this site - BRILLIANT is the least I can say about it. - No 'Grovelling' , it is great.. Something to add ??? For me, more photos, of anything naval. After spending 12 years in the 'andrew', and accumulating many photographs of ships and members of., then coming out of the navy and sadly through a small disaster, losing them all.. (Tears all round)!!!! Seriously - more photos.. Many thanks to all on the site and keep up the good work. It's a Gem... PO (yeo) George..

20-03-2009, 13:28

Glad to see this thread is still prompting replies from new members.

As for threads being ended / deleted; don't worry, this is not the case.

Within a category of the forum, or even on the index page, you will see the thread titles. If a thread is spread over several pages, numbers appear beside the title, allowing you to click through to the second or third page directly, without having to read through the first page again. If there are enough pages, then a 'last page' link will appear to allow access to the latest page in the thread.

Just making that clear to avoid any further confusion.

harry.gibbon

23-03-2009, 19:07

I've been a member for just one week and already I am hooked and so far have found the forum most interesting and not at all bad to navigate around.

Its working fine for me e.g. I am a member of the 'Squirrelshack' site but a good mate of mine, an ex CRS(G) doesn't qualify for membership.. BUT I have found a good thread on the Cathedral class frigates with both technical and crew references which will interest him having served on the Llandaff...he is a member of the Llandaff Association (membership for which I don't qualify) and the thread contains details from members of the Association whom he will undoubtedly know.

The outcome is of course that I am in the process of alerting him to the Forums' existance!!

Its impressing me thanks very much

Harry

martinclift

02-06-2009, 11:29

I found the site a little overwhelming at first, the ‘Wow so much’ really hit me.
However, I have got used to it and although I don’t have much in the way of posts find browsing and reading really enjoyable.
What worries me is are you losing potential posters who are not only new to the site, but new to the web as well.
I don’t have a good answer as there is so much you want to tell everyone, but is there a way that there could be less on the front page or an automatic redirect to a different page for new guests so it appears less threatening.
Anyway it’s just a thought.

‘GREAT FORUM’

Martin

astraltrader

02-06-2009, 15:51

martinclift

02-06-2009, 16:24

Thank you Martin for those comments.
I understand what you are saying although I am not sure there is an easy way to achieve this.
I will give the matter further thought although it will need the forums administrator Kc to come up with any possible solution.

Thanks for that astraltrader.

It's all about gaining 'posters' and understanding, as you do, that not all surfers can use the web as easily as some of us.
The good thing is it's now part of a discussion and so we move forward. Great!

Martin

qprdave

04-06-2009, 15:29

I would like to see members, who haven't done so yet, spend five minutes of their valuable time and fill out their profiles. It is of great interest to me of time done (i.e. from to). Ships served. Obviously this only concerns ex-Matelots. Everyone else has some interesting parts of their lives

astraltrader

04-06-2009, 20:49

Thanks Dave. I couldn`t agree more. Not only that but it would not take as much as five minutes...

Could all members who have not yet filled out their profiles PLEASE take the minute or so it would take to do this, just out of common courtesy to all the members who have filled theirs and who get frustrated when they look at a members profile only to find that they havent completed one.

All that needs to be done is to jot down the rough area of their Naval interests, etc.

To do this is so simple.

Just click on CP on the top left of this page [Control Panel]
Then click on Edit Profile - three down from the top.

It is that easy and quick to do and the potential benefits are enormous.

Many thanks.

qprdave

04-06-2009, 21:27

Terry

Perhaps the problem is that we are all so interested in the photo's, ships details etc. that many don't bother to look at this thread.

Would it be possible to place a reminder in each thread. Then more people will see our plea re. profiles

astraltrader

04-06-2009, 23:23

A good idea Dave but not really feasible as a similar proposal was mooted some time ago.

From time to time [roughly every three months] I re-post a thread entitled "Profile Blues" appealing for more members to fill out their profiles and as well all new members are asked to do this when they first join.

Really all I can do is to post "Profile Blues" perhaps once a month with a view to targeting new members. It has been a while since I worked out statistics but the majority of the fifty most frequent posters have filled out their profiles.

It does help when respected senior members raise the point as you have done, as I feel sure that each time this happens a certain number of members who have not got around to completing one yet do so.

I think all we can do is keep chipping away!

harry.gibbon

04-06-2009, 23:38

Terry, dare I say that the feasibility IS possible; IF and only IF the registration of a Forum member is only considered complete when the Profile section has been completed. Now; whether the contents of same is verifyable, is the next question?? to which I DO NOT have the answer.

Little h

astraltrader

05-06-2009, 00:14

Obviously it would be up to Kc to decide, but I think it is probably a step too far to insist on filling out a profile in order to gain membership.

Also it would not address the hundreds of existing members who haven`t yet filled one out.

qprdave

05-06-2009, 00:50

I think that you are right Terry. I have been to many forums and been there just Goofing. When they come up and say I have to register and tell them everything including my inside leg measurements I just move on to something else

B.T.W.

My next post I will get my 4th ring. So kc and the moderators should decide which Naval Attache I am going to be and what part of the World. And please don't send me to Alice Springs, Northern Alaska etc.

astraltrader

05-06-2009, 03:12

Whilst I offer my [premature] congrats Dave - I think I will let Kc decide where to post you as I doubt that I could afford the stamps..;)

Bee

05-06-2009, 03:16

Dear all,
Re: Profile....When I first stumbled across your forum...I had never been game enough to even look into a forum - let alone "post" on one. I don't know how many of your "new" forum people would be as novice to computers as me...but there probably would be a few.
That being the case...it took me a week or two to discover Terry's "profile blues" and realise that there was a profile section to fill out - which I duly did. And as Terry and KC can attest -one of my first attempts at posting...ended up in the DIRECTORY. But our lovely Terry was very nice about that (sent me a very tactful p.m. and quietly put it where it belonged. )
Thus maybe giving the "newbies" a few days/weeks to thrash around...and then gently guiding them in the right direction might be the best way to get profiles, pictures extra information etc. Especially when there are so many helpful people here to assist and offer encouragement.
Fondest regards to you all,
Bee :):):)
p.s. Had any one of you been negative when I was first "testing the water" here I probably would not have continued on.

astraltrader

05-06-2009, 13:29

Thank you Bee for your kind words. It means a lot to myself, Kc and all the moderators to welcome all members with an interest in anything Naval and Maritime no matter how long they have been on a computer.

Like yourself I became a regular in this forum because of the helpful and friendly attitude I first received when I joined.:)

Chev

11-06-2009, 05:37

The few sites that do have more photographs than us tend to be just ship photographs one after the other [often recent photographs] - with no real historical interest and exchange of views around them...
I am posting on this site for the first time and agree with the part statement above.

I have visited many RN related sites and have found that probably 90% of photographs are of the external ship. I am very interested in finding internal shots of warships, ie messdecks, ops room and other compartments that ex matelots remember well but have no memory inducing photos.

Another thing Iam continuously on the lookout for are those cutaway posters that were well circulated in the 60s and 70s. You could see the entire belowdecks of a destroyer etc. I know it would be difficult to scan but maybe someone already has one or two!

My name is Chev and I served on Ganges, Venus (Training) Dryad, Hampshire, Scarborough, Bellorophan, Palliser, Dryad (Fort Purbrook), Aurora, Berwick and Cochrane.

Only been on this site a couple of times but I'm impressed at it's user friendliness. Well done

Bee

11-06-2009, 06:08

Hello Chev,
You might be interested in this site...if you haven't already come across it. (I found it yesterday). It's called Old Ship Picture Galleries and it's at http://www.photoship.co.uk/Search%20Links%20Ship/ It has pictures of the insides of numerous ships and the Ganges set up (search the miscellaneous pics/galleries for this).
Regards,
Bee

ivorthediver

16-06-2009, 19:30

Would it be desirable or possible to have an indication of what an individual s trade in the navy was so that some one looking for an answer on a topic could ask a member questions about their specialist service

I have tongue in check asked a question of some one hoping that my memory has put me in the right area but rarely am I right.

Such as the colour bands used in the navy on the arm bands only a colour on their avatar ?....just a thought

astraltrader

16-06-2009, 23:38

You have posted the suggestion in the right place Ivor.
I certainly feel that you have highlighted yet another reason for filling out the profile section. If every ex-navy poster put their trade in their profile then there would be no problem!
Nevertheless your idea is worth considering. I expect Kc will give us his opinion when he reads this as any changes in that area can only be made by him.

Watch this space!!:D

ivorthediver

17-06-2009, 05:11

Had a thought Terry to save to much grief could not the "on site" indicator light be different colours perhaps and be unable to mask it ?

qprdave

22-06-2009, 15:03

Would it be possible to have a permanent thread for Obituaries of members of the Royal Navy/Royal Marines.

I for one like to read the feats of these men and I am sure that many would also like to read them and it would be easier to browse through them if they were all under one thread!

It could be written personally or copied into the thread or just the URL

Bee

16-07-2009, 17:35

Terry,
I guess this request/query (#83) of Dave's is basically for you and Kc to decide upon. Personally, I too would like to see a permanent obituaries thread dedicated to RN personel. So, what say you?
Regards,
Bee

astraltrader

16-07-2009, 22:00

As I told Dave I will see if Kc has had any further thoughts on the best way of proceeding with an obituary section.

16-07-2009, 22:41

We now have a naval obituaries section.

qprdave

16-07-2009, 22:46

Thank you kc

astraltrader

16-07-2009, 22:48

Thanks Kc - I know this will be greatly appreciated.

Bee

17-07-2009, 10:57

Thankyou Kc and Terry for setting up a separate obituaries thread - but I have one more request/ suggestion.

Would it be possible to have something more along the lines of the memorial/obits section as is set up for HMS Eagle....e.g. with music and a specific write-up - rather than just a series of posts? (Although the old posts could still be kept - but elsewhere).

Just a thought...

Regards Bee

astraltrader

17-07-2009, 16:45

Err - I think I will leave your suggestion to Kc!!!:D

Bee

18-07-2009, 04:37

Ok Terry & thankyou for your quick response,

Thus over to our Dear Leader: Kc - Re: suggestion at #89 (you need to remember that I'm not at all computer conversant....so as far as I know it might be a huge thing to do and totally impractical for this forum).

However, maybe a simpler solution could be to have a decent picture or 2 of each person who has an obituary placed on this forum...followed by that person's obit.

Nice and simple...but very relevant and more personal.

Regards,
Bee

qprdave

21-07-2009, 22:00

Now...I have no idea at all about the workings of a forum such as this one.

Is there any reasonably easy way to have an index so that it would make it easier to browse the entire forum.

I know that there is a more than adequate search facility but it is only as good as the searchers input.

Sometimes it would be good to be able to search for something but not know exactly what it is that we are searching for.

astraltrader

21-07-2009, 22:38

Just an opinion Dave, but I cant see that an Index could possibly work in a forum that is constantly growing. To make it work it would have to be updated everyday!
The fact that I have probably joined/seen/visited literally 100`s of forums and never seen an index would bear this out.

I would love to be wrong about it though, as you rightly indicate it would be a great thing to have!

qprdave

21-07-2009, 23:09

Terry

You're right of course. If it was possible, and I'm not sure that it is, it might be more trouble than it's worth.

Still, you never know. kc might say "no problem"

22-07-2009, 07:42

Only thing I can suggest quickly is the archive link at the bottom right of the page. It is sort of an index of old posts that you can browse quickly.

qprdave

22-07-2009, 14:12

Thank you KC. I must admit that I hadn't noticed the Archive facility.

I never expected anyone to completely dismantle the forum just to put in an index, If it could be done at all!

jackdusty1

22-07-2009, 14:37

What I would be most interested in is finding out the ships I helped to destore back in late November 1957 - October 1958. The location was Grays
dockyard West Hartlepool, the draft was Commanding Officer Reserve Fleet
West Hartlepool. All who worked on these destoring duties were drafted in from Chatham (HMS Duncansby Head) The ships as I vaguely remember Castle/Loch
class frigates all in mothball. Most of the "ships coy" where billeted in hotels
I was at The Waverley Hotel.. Seaton Carew.
Any assistance/guidance would be appreciated.

Bset regards to all
Jack Dusty1

22-07-2009, 22:24

Re posts 89 and 91, Bee.

Sorry I missed them earlier, I usually keep tabs on this thread but genuinely missed them - probably removed from my 'unread' threads when I was dragged away from the computer suddenly.

Making up pages on websites is very easy to do. However, where our site became a problem in the past (before my time) was simply adding new pages for everything without any sort of planning - there were quickly hundreds of pages and no-one knew what was on which one, really.

If you are unaware, this site began as the site www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk (http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk) , which I took on, amongst many others, when I started this job. We added to it for a few years, but when I felt I was proficient enough to take it on, I suggested providing this forum, and setting it up on a new .com site (hence the shift to worldnavalships.com)

Now, adding the directory is setting up more automated pages that can esentially run themselves - and that is 'the plan' for the future. I'm programming the old pages so I can embed the new directory within the existing pages.

What I'm getting at is that the forum is not the place for your suggestion - it really is best for plain old discussion. The existing site (when I get a darn chance to work on the thing) is the place to roll out suggestions like yours, and in due time, we should be able to incorporate just about anything.

You can see the 'original' site by going to the bottom right of this very page, and clicking the words 'World Naval Ships'. If you haven't trawled through it like I know many of our members already have, you might find it quite surprising - mainly because of the size of it.

Adding media etc to the forum is a bit more difficult because I didn't write the software myself and I'd rather not mess with the innards of it without fully knowing the consequences. I'm much more comfortable starting from scratch.

Also, if you go to here : http://www.worldnavalships.com/directory/shiplist.php
you will see I've added little icons to some of the ships listed there - again this is automatic, I didn't actually add each and every one of them. Find one with the 'document' icon and click the name. At the bottom of the page that opens you will see a synopsis of a document related to that ship, and by clicking on it you can download the full document. That is how I expect to be able to add future documents, including obituaries etc, if they are connected to a ship. (We do have other, even larger databases in the pipeline after this one, and these will be more relevant to obituaries).

I do hope I've answered your question..... (just checking I did)..... yes, I think so - the obituaries section of the forum, for threads, is up and running of course.

Bee

23-07-2009, 02:27

Thankyou Kc,
That answers my questions very succinctly...much appreciated.
Carry on the good work :)
Regards,
Bee

dennis a feary

23-07-2009, 06:55

As they are in a sence a different department of the navies, I would like to see a seperate Thread for submaries (RN) and U-boats for the GN. These could then point any viewer specifically to Subs and every piece of info be in one place rather than scattered between Ships / Photos / places !!

Just a thought.

Sadsac

astraltrader

23-07-2009, 14:12

I think that is a good idea Dennis.

The problem might be how many different submarine sections would there need to be? What about USN subs and Japanese subs - if the U-boats had their own section then they should as well.

Anyway if it helped in anyway I will offer to gradually go back through all of the forum and move all the submarine threads to their new berths but it would take ages!!

23-07-2009, 16:05

This one is very much like the request to split factual/historical threads from genealogical threads that came about a year ago if I recall correctly. Trouble is, once you start splitting up into different subsections, you can't really stop until you have a section for each individual vessel almost. There are other more specific websites and societies (I'm thinking of reunion groups etc) that can focus more onto sub-groups (pardon the pun) better than we can. I also think the structure of the forum is large enough already, without getting more and more newcomers lost in the maze.

astraltrader

23-07-2009, 18:07

As mentioned in my post above yours, that was my concern as well Kc.

Kenco

01-08-2009, 18:19

astraltrader

01-08-2009, 21:55

Thanks Ken - much appreciated.

harry.gibbon

01-08-2009, 22:51

alanbenn

01-08-2009, 23:05

Little h, that is how the system currently works.....via pm.

If members then chose to publicly vent their feelings not much the moderators can do other than delete the post which I'm sure you would agree would just inflame the situation further.

If the moderator contacts a member via pm then they should respond back via pm and furthermore should keep the contents of the said PM (PRIVATE message) Private.

I fear this is not always the case.

Regards
Alan

harry.gibbon

01-08-2009, 23:12

Alan, with respect read my post ... that is exactly NOT what I am advocating.

This obsession with PRIVATE is tantamount to subterfuge, get the issue out in the open.... its a FORUM not a photographic club.

Little h

astraltrader

01-08-2009, 23:17

I see what Harry is saying - but with due respect I cant see it as a practical proposition.

I think that a lot of those questions could/can be discussed sensibly in this thread for example. If the subject is too sensitive to merit general circulation then as Alan says that really only leaves either PMs or emails.

harry.gibbon

01-08-2009, 23:28

I don't mind an eventual compromise... but all such matters should be taken out of any PM system, other than it be used to alert the member that there is a matter which needs his/her attention in another place eg a universal sticky entitled whatever Kc decides, but to deal with an issue(s).

Little h

alanbenn

01-08-2009, 23:33

Little h, I was trying to be diplomatic, to me if issues can be dealt with in a way that other members are not dragged into or even concerned about then I don't see a problem.

During my time in the RN there were several occassions when an officer, cheif or PO changed things which caused rumblings among the ratings, there wasn't open 'slanging matches' taking place...then if the rumblings continued openly the 'killick' of the mess would usually take someone aside and give them a word in their 'shell-like' to resolve it.

No different here, substitute 'killick' for moderator and PM for a 'word in the shell-like'

As far as I'm aware that was done yet the protestations still continued and as already been said it's not like the thread is being removed from the forum.

Additionally are you really advocating that a place should be given for people to make derogatory remarks towards others.......does this happen in the general work place or any association or club?

Basically if someone has a problem with someone else then PM them and say so, like all arguments or disagreement they usually end up being resolved amicably......I have experienced that myself on this forum, twice.

Regards
Alan

harry.gibbon

01-08-2009, 23:56

Alan,

With respect you are displaying an over sensitivity which I fear relates to the recent issue about the Wardroom.

Of the two of us I am probably the more diplomatically inclined, to wit I did not hint or refer to the recent issue, your answers appear not to have moved away from it. I was drawing from the 'experience' of my shortish membership in the Forum where I have used the PM system the external private e-mail system and would if necessary use a phone if I felt an issue required it.

so... I shall stay on message.. that is my suggestion that issues be debated openly in a mechanism set up for the Forum (not just the RN) and those involved can be seen to have resolved such issues.

By the way I am totally versed in the way to conduct personal issues away from external influences... the suggestion I have offered is about things going on, or improvements to this Forum.

Terry,

You are nearly there for me...

I can see that if a subject is too sensitive then it has to be taken outwith the forum postings as you say even to e-mails... but I had previously suggested a more robust registration system which required those registering to complete a more comprehensive set of details which would include their e-mail address.

I am not too precious about it being a new sticky.. this could be the place .. but it might/would then need renaming.

Come on lads meet some of us part way...

Little h

alanbenn

02-08-2009, 00:30

A universal Sticky thread for the WNSF which brings 'issues' of concern identified by Moderator(s) to the attention of the Forum Member(s) whereby such issues of concern can be debated 'off normal threads' between the parties concerned.

This will obviate the need to conduct such matters in the midst of normal discourse going on in the threads.

It would certainly be expected that Moderators' would be the instigators of such issues to the member(s) concerned perhaps via the existing PM facility.

Harry, my apologies here but I am getting confused, your post above I assumed was in response to the issue of the 'wardroom' thread and the subsequent response from the unhappy members.
Your 3rd point was that if issues were to be raised this could be done by a moderator.....on this occassion that had been done.

I'm not over -sensitive on the issue either, I personally am sad that members have left over this, but I'm not that interested what happens to the thread itself...if members want to use it great, if not remove it.
There are several other thread that interest me more...as a moderator I obviously have to read what's going on in any thread in case I need to become involved.
I've given my opinion and I have listened to others opinions, it is up to them to decide what they want to do, I'm happy that I have tried to put some reason into the matter. The current system has worked perfectly well up to now, must it be changed because 2 people don't agree with it?

I don't feel I need to fall out with anyone over this, as far as I'm concerned derogatory remarks were made in public and although not aimed at me I found them offensive to me and other forum members, activities such as that have no place here. The members themselves could have conducted themselves better.....as I have mentioned before it's called etiquette.

I wish you well harry and I'm pleased you are remaining with us and look forward to your posts as usual, I'm going to leave the issue on that note.

sincere regards
Alan

harry.gibbon

02-08-2009, 10:51

I think that a lot of those questions could/can be discussed sensibly in this thread for example. If the subject is too sensitive to merit general circulation then as Alan says that really only leaves either PMs or emails.
__________________
Best wishes,
Terry/Exeter. UK

Right then gents... a good sleep never did any harm... so why don't we have the suggestion (as made above) adopted. Hopefully with Kc's blessing! and then all forum members will be aquainted with current matters which may be affecting them or others. Allways assuming that any matter at hand is not too sensitive.

Little h

astraltrader

02-08-2009, 13:12

Harry - I have to say that i am now as confused as Alan!!

All I have been saying is that your original suggestion would be impossible to have and that discussion of new ideas are always welcome in the forum!:confused::confused:

03-08-2009, 10:14

While I can see what you are getting at Harry, I actually think we already have this covered sufficiently. The admins and mods of course have a private area to discuss forum matters, (that's normal for any forum), and members also have this specific thread to bring up any new ideas or suggestions for changes, which can then be taken away, discussed and implemented if need be, or if possible.

Other than that, the only other reason I can see for members to need to air their views is if they have a problem with another member. For that, we have the PM system, the option to directly report a post, and the moderators are almost always in contact by PM.

I think what you are looking for is a discussion forum to air views and ideas in public. Apologies if I am wrong in thinking that. Well, for the type of discussion in my first paragraph, this particular thread is the place to do that, and I've already given the options of where discuss the type of issue in my second paragraph. Am I missing something - is there more than that required?

harry.gibbon

03-08-2009, 22:15

I think what you are looking for is a discussion forum to air views and ideas in public. Apologies if I am wrong in thinking that. Well, for the type of discussion in my first paragraph, this particular thread is the place to do that, and I've already given the options of where discuss the type of issue in my second paragraph. Am I missing something - is there more than that required?

Kc; I think I will run with this your 3rd para, the first two I have had identified to me previously.

Scenario:- one or more Mod's have a discussion amongst themselves with respect to the post contents of more than one member in a thread or across threads...
Their collective view (which at this stage no other member of the Forum knows about) is that these members be advised of their view...

Now I know what happens currently and this is where my suggestion seems to fall into some sort of offensive or don't rock the boat category ...

I suggest that the members concerned be advised to read the views of the Moderator(s) on a thread (possibly this one) ... and yes it now becomes public knowledge.
Here the nominated Moderator or preferrably all of those Mod's who were involved in their private debate (and conclusion) discuss their issue with those whom they have identified as not meeting with their pleasure.

Result, which I fear is what yourself may... and the Mod's certainly appear to be against at all costs, is that:-
a) all Forum members are able to witness the issue being debated to a conclusion = transparency.
b) there is no missunderstanding from the onset what the issue is about.
c) other members who might have been inclined to mimic (poss inadvertently)the actions/activities of those involved in the issue being discussed are alerted.

For any/all matters considered to be of a sensitive nature the PM system is absolutely the correct facility.

For me it is no big deal that I am putting forward simply that the 'accused members' are at the earliest possible juncture aquainted with their 'accusors' who are presumably only carrying out their function.

Little h

alanbenn

03-08-2009, 22:57

Harry, obviously Kc will have to answer you question, but as you have mentioned that 'some' moderators may be against the idea I'll be honest and open with my view on it.

I would not favour such a move I'll give a few examples as to why....

Parliament.
Prime minister at the cabinet meeting (held in private) says he does not like the way a couple of the party members are behaving, a few of the cabinet members concur that they too feel the same. Party whip is called to have a word with the said members (in private) members either tow the line or resign.

Workplace.
Manager calls a managers meeting (held in private) explains that he doesn't like the way a couple of the workforce are doing things, a couple of the managers concur they have the same view. Department manager is asked to have a word with the said workers (in private) said workers change their behaviour, resign or get sacked.

Club/Association.
Chairman calls a commitee meeting (held in private) explains that the behaviour of one or two members is causing concern, one or two commitee members concur they have noticed too.
Chairman asks one of the commitee to have a word with said members (in private) said members change their behavour, leave the club or get banned.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm being condescending it's not meant to be but that's how things work, give me one example where you would have such a system as the one you are proposing!

So as I said i'll be honest and it's in the open I'm against your proposal.

Sincere Regards
Alan

harry.gibbon

03-08-2009, 23:20

Alan,

I'll be brief whilst I await Kc's answer.

I really don't know what you mean in a number of respects.. since I am reasonably au-fait with the general drift of the parliamentry rules of debate, with committee procedures, and especially with work place disciplinary procedures. I also belong to an association of which I have been the principal officer.

There are glaring ommisions from your short list of examples in that; in every instance the 'accused' individuals have the right to a defense, they may indeed NOT BE guilty of what their accusors say they are.

In every example the individuals have the right to appeal.

In every example the individuals have the right to go public.

and in any case with regard to the Forum we are already public (worldwide even) and thus; to offer the explanation that things of a non sensitive nature be conducted in private is not the modern or democratic way.

Little h

03-08-2009, 23:28

Right, Harry.... I think I get what you mean. Here's what you wrote :

Result, which I fear is what yourself may... and the Mod's certainly appear to be against at all costs, is that:-
a) all Forum members are able to witness the issue being debated to a conclusion = transparency.
b) there is no missunderstanding from the onset what the issue is about. c) other members who might have been inclined to mimic (poss inadvertently)the actions/activities of those involved in the issue being discussed are alerted.

With a complete modus operandi for the forum, I would agree with you entirely. If there was a set of rules to strictly abide by, it would be far simpler, but much more unfriendly, I feel. You may be inclined to disagree with that; I don't know.

However, we don't have a set of rules as such, and I think therefore there is one thing that you are missing, and that is that we need to discuss new, so far unexperienced encounters as the forum continues to grow. In such cases, I think the transparency you are requesting in point (a) is firstly unnecessary and secondly something which should be kept private. If some matters are discussed in public, the issue would never get resolved, and would certainly make divisions within the forum. (Is this why I am represented by an MP I didn't vote for?)

Points (b) and (c) can really be answered in one. When we are made aware of something which needs changed, discussed or reviewed, and subsequently make a change to the forum, we don't then backtrack and accuse members of breaching rules or anything like that. No-one with any sense holds a grudge against those who they may consider responsible for the change. The truth is that no-one will be directly responsible for it - it's just a change that needed to be made.

You will notice on this forum that no-one is obsessive about power. There have been no (or next to no) instances of bans being issued, which have always been available to be used. I actually have never personally met any of the moderators on the forum, but they have either been here from the beginning and asked by me to help out, or have been reccommended to me by others. They have earned and kept my trust, and they actually have considerable power - although I always have backups in place just in case. It is not some private club of ours, and in fact we only ever privately discuss matters which will affect the forum itself - like copyright, the structure of the forum and the need for new bits and pieces as they arise. An example would be the request for an area for obituaries recently. A quick discussion (probably only a post or two) and it's done. You really want a couple of thousand posts all saying 'Yes, that's a good idea, I agree'?

Anyway, I've rambled on a bit now, but I hope I've answered your points for now.

----edit----
all of the above was posted before reading Harry's last post.

alanbenn

03-08-2009, 23:44

Harry, I have given my opinion honestly, and yet again as you did the last time I gave my opinion you begin your post with a I know better than you comment, on Saturday you stated you were more diplomatic than me, today you claim to know work force procedures better than me, fine that's your opinion.

I do not agree that everyone has the right to go public, most workplaces do not operate such a policy, non that I have ever worked for certainly.

I think your wording the 'accused' is a bit OTT, it's not a courtroom.

That aside you asked for openess and I have given my stance, I appreciate you have given your opinion and I have listened to your opinion, it has not changed my view, I'm still against your proposal.

I also believe that other members who are reading these posts will feel uncomfortable, another reason I don't agree with your 'open' proposal.

But, thank you for making your suggestion openly, it will be interesting to see if others follow suit.

Regards
Alan

harry.gibbon

04-08-2009, 22:53

:)Harry, I have given my opinion honestly, and yet again as you did the last time I gave my opinion you begin your post with a I know better than you comment, on Saturday you stated you were more diplomatic than me, today you claim to know work force procedures better than me, fine that's your opinion.

I do not agree that everyone has the right to go public, most workplaces do not operate such a policy, non that I have ever worked for certainly.

I think your wording the 'accused' is a bit OTT, it's not a courtroom.

That aside you asked for openess and I have given my stance, I appreciate you have given your opinion and I have listened to your opinion, it has not changed my view, I'm still against your proposal.

I also believe that other members who are reading these posts will feel uncomfortable, another reason I don't agree with your 'open' proposal.

But, thank you for making your suggestion openly, it will be interesting to see if others follow suit.

Regards
Alan

Evening Alan, and thanks for your reply which seems to have coincided with Kc's along with my contributions.:)

An answer is usually taken as the 'whole', it is more courtroom to disect same into its constituant parts. However it seems to be the modus operandi so to do in the forum so I shall indulge.

Your first para - no further comment other than to say my responses are without malice; tis a way of words!

Your second para - in all workplaces there is the possibility of going public on an issue or issues by both employee(s) and employer UNLESS there is a clause in terms and conditions or procedure agreements specifically agreeing that neither side will so do. (and of course some specific severence settlements).

Your third para - accuse or accused the OED will describe it's use as a verb or a noun loosely leveling blame or fault on someone... there are many inclusions of a non legal nature.

Your fifth para - nobody anywhere need feel uncomfortable about anything I write/include in this forum.

Your sixth para - I wonder why any others would want to do anything other than be open and transparent. As I have said Alan we are enjoying a forum which means verbal/written exchanges and for that to happen one has to be open.

So onward and hopefully upwards, tis the age of progressive thinking!!

Little h

alanbenn

05-08-2009, 09:32

Harry, I fear this could just drag on and on and on.

You have your opinions and I appreciate everyones opinion, but at the end of the day many people have joined this forum, some may leave because of things they may not like, the vast majority however are happy with the way the forum operates.

The upshot is a couple of people weren't happy with something, ranted and raved and left, their decision.

We don't have a mass of members calling for your 'open discussion' theory.

Reasons have been given as to how it currently operates and usually works fine, some people are the exception to that but are a very, very small minority.

Like any other club/association you join, become an active member and go with things the way they are.

In my job I see that life is too short, and you don't always get a chance to make amends, there are much more important things in life than to be worrying about how we should discuss things on a forum, one that works well the way it is IMO.

This is the last response I will give on this matter, a trivial issue that appears to be turning 'molehills into mountains'

Best wiahes
Alan

ivorthediver

05-08-2009, 18:25

[quote=alanbenn;65663]Harry, I fear this could just drag on and on and on.

You have your opinions and I appreciate everyones opinion, but at the end of the day many people have joined this forum, some may leave because of things they may not like, the vast majority however are happy with the way the forum operates.

The upshot is a couple of people weren't happy with something, ranted and raved and left, their decision.

We don't have a mass of members calling for your 'open discussion' theory.

Reasons have been given as to how it currently operates and usually works fine, some people are the exception to that but are a very, very small minority.

Like any other club/association you join, become an active member and go with things the way they are.

In my job I see that life is too short, and you don't always get a chance to make amends, there are much more important things in life than to be worrying about how we should discuss things on a forum, one that works well the way it is IMO.

This is the last response I will give on this matter, a trivial issue that appears to be turning 'molehills into mountains'

Best wiahes
Alan[/quot

Alan I have just read the posts on this subject for the first time and can't help felling that your approach is a tad dictatorial

As one off the members you refer to who "ranted and raved" I would have thought that as a Moderator you should be setting a better example to others ...like me for instance where you gain your information from.......

Any ranting and raving which you felt I did was spoken outside of this forum to another Moderator in confidence to those it directly affected which I don't think included you .
So would you like to explain how you cam by that information please

The very few you refer to in para four where do you obtain this information from please.....purely out of interest you understand.

your comment about "Going along with things" is this your opinion or is this based on facts compiled by the Forum statistics

Is your word the last say in this matter or would you object to us taking it a step higher in the chain of command please
I wont comment on your last para other than to say...... it is unbecoming of a Moderator

astraltrader

05-08-2009, 21:10

Ivor - having just read this my friend, things seem to have gone way off topic.

Harry came up with an idea which he rightly placed in this thread.

After both myself and Alan gave our opinions that it wasn`t possible to have the type of "open discussion" that Harry suggested, Kc finally confirmed this in his post above.

I mention this purely to show that this decision did indeed come from above.

alanbenn

05-08-2009, 23:55

Terry, thank you for that, This whole episode is getting out of hand, I am it appears the one moderator who seems to be taking all the flak for something that as far as I'm aware from Dave wasn't intended towards me (not being one of the 'certain moderators').

I am no longer going to comment on this issue, if any of the members of the 'wardroom' wish to discuss this further then please feel free to badger one of the other moderators or indeed speak to KC.

You asked for honest and open opinions and lo and behold when they don't agree with your opinions you continue to persue the matter.

If find this quite ironic really as I think out of all the mods I 'popped' into the wardroom and added to the banter more than most.....

I would like to welcome you back Ivor, I hope that things can move on, the 'wardroom' thread is still available to all and of course suggestions can be made.....just like it's always been.

Regards
Alan

qprdave

08-08-2009, 20:53

alanbenn

08-08-2009, 22:59

Dave, that's a fair point, however as I said on the other thread no one is asking for all members to comment on every photo, merely those that download them should at least acknowledge a bit more frquently than they do.

Fact is that if someone writes a short post describing or explaining something, it is common place to see people respond to the post many thanking the poster for either posting a link or their story, yet for some reason they don't do that with regards to photo's....just doesn't make sense...IMO.

But as I say Dave I want to encourage as many opinions so that I personally can make a decision as to future postings of my collection.

Regards
Alan

qprdave

08-08-2009, 23:07

Ok Alan

Seeing that you and Terry are two of the major contributors and you are satisfied then that's fine

harry.gibbon

08-08-2009, 23:15

But... rather than dismiss the suggestion out of hand why not investigate its possible introduction!!! If it were possible to introduce it then you guys with the personal photo collections should be able to cream off more good reliable data about who is doing what!

Little h

alanbenn

08-08-2009, 23:26

Harry, yes totally agree as I said I think it's a fair point and one that should be considered, hopefully more people will respond and then we can make an informed decision.

Reagrds
Alan

Bee

08-08-2009, 23:26

Whilst nobody would disagree with me that everyone who posts pictures to this forum, should be thanked for their generosity in giving their time and photos to the forum members. I would think that everyone would agree that is is not feasible that everyone should "thank" the poster every time. Seeing that we have nearly 6,000 members and growing, it could possibly clog up the threads with "thank you's"

Is it at all possible for a "Thank you" button automatically put on every post. This can then be pressed and a short thank you can be places somewhere??? where the posters can go to and receive them. This could be just two words, Thank you. If any member wants to add more than that, then they can use the IM

This would then free up a lot of room in the threads.

I have seen these buttons on Download sites where you have to press it before the URL is shown. I realise this is not the same but it did give me the idea.

Hi All,
I think that Dave's idea, above, is a good one. Not only would it encourage those downloading to give a "thankyou" to the poster whose material their downloading (without taking up a lot of space)...but hopefully it'd also contain some info.(made available to the poster) as to who it is that is downloading the material posted. I think that in itself would be very interesting.
I know that bits that I have posted have been downloaded and I would be quite happy if they were being used to either further naval historical archives somewhere else or going to people with a similar interest who find them worthy of keeping. (I'm quite happy to share my Dad's pictures and stories)but it would be nice to know where they're getting to.)
Regards,
Bee

harry.gibbon

08-08-2009, 23:29

Harry, yes totally agree as I said I think it's a fair point and one that should be considered, hopefully more people will respond and then we can make an informed decision.

Reagrds
Alan
ta for that Alan... simple application of modern technology for old issues, me thinks thats what its all about

Little h

qprdave

08-08-2009, 23:45

alanbenn

08-08-2009, 23:59

Dave, another good point, of course all of this is dependant on how our system works to which I don't have a clue...KC looks after that domain.

One other thing came to mind with that idea, is that if the button could somehow be linked to the member it would soon highlight those members that have not contributed in anyway i.e 1 post to register yet download all the photo's, there are 2 currently that I believe are doing that, but as yet the system cannot verify that.

But then we don't want it to become like a 'big brother' is watching you issue either.

See more questions than answers:rolleyes: when a simple Ta! regularly..not always would suffice.

Regards
Alan

Bee

09-08-2009, 00:00

I was, of course, thinking about the members who wish to solely download the pictures, Diagrams etc and have nothing of value to contribute to the thread. Of course, if they have any questions/advice, information etc then they would be able to post it as per normal. and thank the poster then.

I was, of course, thinking of anything of value that people have posted to the threads whether it be diagrams or crew lists (which can be very valuable) or first hand stories -which in my opinion are just as (if not more) valuable than photos, especially when they've never been told/shared before.
However I realise that stories would be harder to track because anyone could copy and paste them and I doubt there is anyway of recording those types of "sharing". As it is the stories that are posted are available to the general public to read, without having to be a member...which I feel is good, as it gives them a feel for the forum and then they can join if they wish...(which will then give them access to the photos) so I wouldn't want to impede on that.

Regards,
Bee

qprdave

09-08-2009, 00:02

Yes Bee you are right (AGAIN!!!!!!!!!)

qprdave

09-08-2009, 00:05

Mind You!!!!!

We need to find out if it is at all feasible without knocking the forum off the Internet for a time while KC rips the Site to shreds!!!!!!!

It might be more trouble than it's worth.

harry.gibbon

09-08-2009, 00:10

However I realise that stories would be harder to track because anyone could copy and paste them and I doubt there is anyway of recording those types of "sharing". As it is the stories that are posted are available to the general public to read, without having to be a member...which I feel is good, as it gives them a feel for the forum and then they can join if they wish...(which will then give them access to the photos) so I wouldn't want to impede on that.

yet... if the manage attachments drop down/window was to have a marker of flag which meant it was traceable once it was posted then that prob is taken care of... thats what IT people are for surely... we the user operators see a situation and our man Kc seizes the opportunity to sort it!!!

that's the way it was when I was in industry anyway

Bee

09-08-2009, 00:13

Thanks Dave,
Just trying to point out that we don't all have lots of photos - but lots of us have bits of interesting stuff - that might never see the light of day, without this forum...and it would be such a pity to lose them, because they all help "flesh out" an over-all picture of past historic events. ( What do they say..".for every person who dies a book dies with them." ...or something along those lines.)

I also agree with you that we don't want to give poor K.c. a mega headache trying to do the possibly undo-able...and we definitely wouldn't want to knock the site off the forum.

Regards,
Bee

astraltrader

09-08-2009, 00:39

Personally speaking I think whilst it was an interesting idea, it has no possible place in reality neither do I think it would be of any great use.

Just from a privacy and ID protection point of view it would always be a non-starter.

Anyway I am not interested in press button thank you`s - neither as I have repeated ad nauseum do I want or or have ever expected members to say thank you on every occasion far from it.

The point again that I have made on numerous occasions is that if for example say 20 people have downloaded copies of a picture I have provided then I do not think it is too much to expect 2 or 3 members to feedback something in return. Far better than just a "thank you" is for example a post relating to the ship, or a comment about the photograph or location.

In other words an opportunity to continue intelligent communication about the warship photographed.

An example off the top of my head - Kookaburra posted a picture of a little RAN ship called HMAS Stella.

I replied thanking him saying that my wife is called Stella and really liked the picture!

I am sure Bee would far prefer one of her interesting anecdotes to produce equally interesting replies in return, rather than just a thank you - although a thank you is always far better than nothing at all!!

This particular subject really has a bottom line which translates to the obvious truism that all members should play an active part in giving as well as taking. The more members who embrace this, the better and stronger the forum will be.

qprdave

09-08-2009, 00:47

Well...
Another idea bites the dust.

I wasn't thinking of myself as I have lost all the pics that I had accumalated over the years. The only pics that I have on this computer are the ones that I have collected over the Internet.

I was thinking of the guys, like you, Terry that have a very good collection and you are willing to share them with us.

As far as the privacy thing is concerned. It needn't have had anything more than what is shown on a regular post. My idea was never a "Data collecting tool" just a way to clear some of the thank you's from the threads.

I didn't think that it would get such a negative response from two of the biggest contributors on this site

alanbenn

09-08-2009, 01:06

Dave, unless you missed my post #135 I'm a bit lost as to where my negative response comes from..

However, again this highlights this open views issue, Terry has expressed his view, he's against the idea. You have your view...it shouldn't turn into a well that's it then........end of conversation.

You have differing opinions...so you may just have to agree to disagree....happens all the time it doesn't need to become an argument.

I think it's time for my bed now...goodnight all.

Alan

Bee

09-08-2009, 01:09

Re: Trying to extract thankyou's...you know there are people out there who don't/ won't...so no matter what scheme was devised...unless it was linked in with the actual downloading process you probably wouldn't get any acknowledgement. That's the sad and sorry truth and something we all have to come to terms with. I personally would still like to know who is downloading...I don't see how that can be an invasion of privacy...esp. if you make it part of the conditions of being part of this forum.

Also Terry, with regard to the anecdotes that I have posted....most of the people who have commented here are the ones who have already thanked me for my contribution and I them (I hope:o) so I know where they stand. I guess it's a bit like the Church congregation...it's always the ones who turn up...who cop it for the ones who don't.

'nuff said, (by me anyway)
Regards,
Bee

qprdave

09-08-2009, 01:12

Alan

I have no intention of making anything into an argument. It doesn't worry me if nobody thanks anyone for the effort that they put into the forum.

I made the point, that I made a suggestion, that I thought may work providing KC can do it with this forum. You and Terry were against it. End of debate. I am not upset or annoyed about it.

Nowhere was it mentioned that it would be referred to the Administrator to see if it was possible. Although you do mention "Interesting" there were enough Buts to show that you you would not have totally backed it if it could be done.

Therefore my statement "Another idea bites the dust"

astraltrader

09-08-2009, 01:20

Dave old mate - I didnt say I was against it - I just said it could never happen for privacy type reasons and also tried to point out it was the two way feedback that I was after when I posted a picture.
Your idea would not provide that.
I did say it was an interesting idea though!!!:):):)

qprdave

09-08-2009, 01:39

Thanks Terry

I understand what you are saying

alanbenn

09-08-2009, 08:22

Hmmm, I also said it was a fair point and it depended on if the system could be adapted, although I did say that I would prefer a simple thank you at least as an acknowledgement, I do appreciate your points of view Dave.....here's another but, as Bee has pointed out some will, some won't know matter what.

I agree with Bee in that those who comment on her anecdotes are people who have commented in the past, true. The anecdotes attracted those comments in the 1st place...and that's my point...members don't think twice about passing comment on an anecdote or similar, almost 2nd nature, why then don't they do it when a really good and sometimes rare photo is posted, after all they aren't just a nice photo, they're a snapshot of our history......eg. my photo of Hms Barham at sea days before she was sunk, the last ever photo of her (as far as I'm aware) massive loss of life and a real rare find....huge amount of downloads (naturally) only a handful of comments.
The upshot is Dave from my own point of view is that I think members should be a bit more polite, that's all, give credit where it's due especially if you want to download the photo. It only takes a couple of seconds, and no it won't clog up the system. Most of my photo's are large format over 1mb each they open at almost full screen when viewed so they don't need to be downloaded to view. So if they are downloaded You could assume they are downloaded for keeps and I don't mind that at all, but at least offer me the courtesy of saying thanks if you do so.

Anyhow, as I've said Dave I appreciate your honest views, maybe others who haven't commented will add to the debate, their obvious abscence speaks volumes.

Regards
Alan

Bee

13-08-2009, 17:16

Hello all you Mods out there, Alan, Terry and all....I just had a thought.
Many new people to the forum (especially the less computer conversant ones) don't seem to introduce themselves in the introduction thread...probably because they just hop on a thread they've seen that is similar to what they're looking for. (thus they don't get much exposure or support.) Or, as in my original case...I posted on the end of someone else's "Hi All" intro., (thinking that was the right place) and was just lucky that my request was spotted by some observant forum members.
My thought was that maybe the Mods could check all the Newbie posts and make sure that they all have a turn in the "intro section". If that is asking a lot of a few people...maybe we could occasionally p.m. mods ourselves with info that there seems to be a new member...flailing around somewhere. ??
Quite often I've come across a couple of posts from ages ago...that seem to have just fizzled after 1, 2 or 3 posts. I can only think that this is because they (the new posters) either discovered their information and didn't bother to come back...or got lost in the maze and basically languished.

What do you think ??
Cheers,
Bee
p.s. I realise that you mods try to track everyone down and help out...and are usually very successful...but I thought there might be a few falling by the wayside, and so I'm trying to think of a way that might help.:)

astraltrader

13-08-2009, 17:51

Not a bad idea Bee - but at the end of the day there is only a problem if a new poster does not come back to post again, or am I missing the point here?:confused:

qprdave

13-08-2009, 18:08

I wish that there was a simple way. You can have someone on the main gate who will direct a new person to the place where they need to go. If the person decides to turn left instead of turning right, there is nothing much can be done.

I suspect that there is the odd person that will join, post a question that is important to them sit around for an hour, get no response and then leave and not come back. Someone who knows the answer next day and posts it and it is never seen by the original poster.

I do think that a lot of questions go missing because they ask the question in the same post as they are introducing themselves. I suppose, all of us, Mods and Members could, after greeting them direct them to the relevant section and repost the question there.

alanbenn

13-08-2009, 18:51

Well, if I can use my own experience, I was searching the 'net' saw a reference to this forum and viewed the posts as a guest. Registered and went to the relevant thread and posted, I hadn't introduced myself and I didn't fill out my profile.....because I hadn't looked.

Most new members are the same, they find us by searching particular interests and then go to that point. Many are as You point out just after one bit of info and don't return. Those that are interested in all things naval...get involved although may need some prompting I agree. But we can all prompt them.

One new member on the badges thread is one example..I had noticed his viewing of the thread but no posts, no introduction either.
I contacted him and he needed a little encouragement to join in and he is now enjoying every minute.

It's all about time for me, work, homelife, forum, all these take time, wherever we can I think the mods do monitor things, but perhaps everybody can do it.....take time out to watch 'whos online' after a while you will notice who's participating and who isn't.

But then of course some don't want to participate, they just enjoy browsing and downloading photo's etc...again without comment.

We can all try to help but the upshot is........Look for a few days to get to know the forum, then participate. If by looking around they can then know the thread to introduce themselves.

As I said at the start, I was guilty of not doing that.

Regards
Alan

billbuntintosser

14-08-2009, 13:46

I think the set-up of the site is great and can't suggest any changes that could improve it.
Having said that - the only reason I registered initially was to try and find old oppos - would be great if that were possible.

Bill

alanbenn

14-08-2009, 15:06

Just to give an idea of the task that would be needed,

594 people have joined made 1 post only
255 ................................. 2 posts
148.................................. 3 posts
88.................................... 4 posts
61..................................... 5 posts

Almost 1000 people who have made less than 5 posts.

At the other end of the spectrum....

10 people have made 1000+ posts of those 10. Six are moderators.
2 of the above 10 do not post any longer...varying reasons.

I monitored the forum for just 30 minutes yesterday...here's what I saw
These members were viewing the forum at the time.

1 member joined june 09......no posts
1 member joined aug 09.......no posts
1 member joined may 09......no posts
1 member joined aug 07......1 post...in 2 years
1 member joined sept 08.....2 posts..in 1 year
1 member joined june 08......2 posts..in 1 year....ex Royal Navy
1 member joined feb 09......no posts

The threads they were viewing at the time.....

Ships badges/crests............viewing attachments
Special warships photo's......viewing attachments
Ships of the 50's/60's..........viewing attachments
RAN 'ship of the day'...........viewing attachments

Now I may be a bit cynical here but members for some time, no posts,
no comments and viewing attachments......rocket science no.

Does this account for the number of downloads of photo's and no comments left as discussed before........????

So if anyone would like to trawl through the members list to ask these non-posting members why! feel free....if you have the time of course!

Regards
Alan

billbuntintosser

14-08-2009, 15:22

Point taken and filed.

Bill

qprdave

14-08-2009, 16:17

Rather than copying the post that you are answering, therefore wasting valuable server space, wouldn't it be an improvement to type e.g. #Post34 at the top of the post. So many people, me included, makes a comment about a post that may be 100 posts back and it takes some time to trawl back to see what the original comment was. Or more annoying if the poster doesn't put the name of the original poster then it is a bit like jeopardy where you have to guess the question from the answer.

I realise that we do have the facility to "quote" parts of the original post or indeed "copy" the entire post. There must come a time when the server that the website is on will start getting full and the "post34" uses up far less space than copying the whole post

alanbenn

14-08-2009, 16:41

Dave, you make a very, very valid point there. I agree that we often see almost an entire post copied and re-posted with a comment that is only a few words long. Getting the members into the habit of what you suggest is another matter.....But I for one will certainly endeavour to do as you have suggested.

Regards
Alan

Bee

15-08-2009, 07:31

Dear Terry and Alan and others,
Thankyou for the answers, & suggestions to my earlier question...re: encouraging more people to feel welcome and helping them to post.
Your run down of numbers at Post #154 was very interesting Alan. I must admit, a couple of times when I have seen a "new name" I have checked their profile to see when they were last on and the number of posts made. If not many, and if it might have been quite a time since they last were on I have endeavoured to "catch up" with these people to suggest that they post in the "new member intro" thread...as it might help them. Also if I recognise a request that was made and know where there is an answer...I'll try to catch up with them to let them know. (qprDave and I "bumped" into each other one day...doing this, if I remember correctly Dave :) )...can't remember if that person has continued on with their posts though.

Of course, my husband reckons that not everyone wants to post on here...They might just log in, get the information they want and move on, that's okay too (although not very polite) I guess,....but it would be nice to know (especially for you moderators) if that is the reason for them not continuiing and not because they either found it all too difficult or didn't get responses to their initial requests or whatever.

Regards,
Bee

qprdave

15-08-2009, 13:15

You are right, Bee.

I don't think that some of these people who join to find out information on a certain ship that "Uncle George" was on, realises that the information that they already have might and normally does interest a great many members. Just like a crime investigation, the slightest snippet of information, put together with what we already have explains the whole picture. I hope that newbies read these posts and understand that information that they hold could be of great interest to us.

alanbenn

16-08-2009, 00:05

I can understand if someone is requesting info about relatives or if doing research that they may join and not post. You can see from profiles that they make a post, get an answer or not in some cases and no longer visit, verified by last activity.

I'm talking about people viewing the forum now who have been members for sometime, not posting but obviously viewing attachments.

Forum's are supposed to be about participating, if every member did what these members are doing there wouldn't be a forum.

I don't wish to put members off joining by asking for tougher registration,
but I do feel something is required regarding this issue.

Regards
Alan

tonclass

16-08-2009, 01:10

Alan, I agree with your last statement. Perhaps kc could remove members who have not posted anything within the last 6 months !! this could let those that post who is interested and those who are not, carry on, but eliminate the wasters !!

Pat in Halifax

16-08-2009, 12:23

I think removing people after idle periods may be construed as something..."undemocratic"?? I, for one, may go months without posting - as some may soon see. My reasons are my reasons, sometimes beyond control: for example, ships at sea generally do not have enough bandwidth to access forums and in many cases, any 'forums' are blocked by ship's servers.
I think saying you will delete anyone's profile who hasn't posted is like telling people who opt not to vote in elections that they will be exiled from the country. All the efforts of everyone serving and veteren's service would all be for naught as all we do is about maintaining freedom.
I am curious, does it 'cost' for non posters to view what is in this website? I KNOW I have told many at work about this but I also know that there is only one person registered who I think I might know.

Bee

16-08-2009, 12:59

I tend to agree with Pat, removing people after a time of not posting does seem rather drastic (and as Pat said, there are lots of reasons for not posting.)

I know that one of the "lookers" and not a "poster" is my 82 old Mum ...who knows that I've put some of my Dad's (her husband's) stories here. She knows that I post...and I've even posted some of her stories (about Dad) for her...but she doesn't feel a need to post anything herself - as I am doing that. Occasionally I'll phone her (she lives a few hundred km away from me) and say log on and check out this or that picture etc. Thus, she logs on, has a look...but doesn't download anything.

Actually, that reminds me, Alan...a couple of times she's logged on and had the "you're not logged on" thingy come up and not been able to view pics...so what's the go of that? By the way....her name is Peggy.
Also, like Pat, we've recommended this site to many others...many who are fairly elderly and may not feel confident with joining....or posting. Of course there are always others who maybe will want to join, after viewing the forum for a while...eg...my Dad's old RN veteran friends and others of that ilk.

Cheers,
Bee
p.s. All the best to you Pat, whilst you're away...doing your thing. Hope to see you back safe and sound on the forum in the future.

alanbenn

16-08-2009, 18:21

Pat and BEE, I'm not sure removing people that don't post is the right thing to do, but is something that may have to be looked at.

All of what is being put forward is again the result of people not being polite and acknowledging or commenting on photo's when down loading them.

I appreciate what people are saying, but with all respect these comments are made by those who don't upload their collections for people to share.

But, although we need to look at this issue the simple thing for me to do and a decision I have not taken lightly is that I am no longer prepared to put any further photo's from my collection onto the forum.

Then the issue of downloading doesn't apply to my photo's any longer.

Sad, but that's my decision.

Regards
Alan

qprdave

16-08-2009, 19:05

Of course, your decision not to post any of your photo/Badge collection must and will be respected.

I am one and I am sure that there are many others who do not have or, over the years, have lost their photographs and regret your decision and thank you for the pics that you have previously posted.

Not having any originals myself, and therefore, as you have pointed out, I shouldn't have any right to either criticise or comment this subject or on your decision.

As far as the "Thank you" posts, I did suggest a way that it might be done and you decided that it wouldn't work

I say again, I regret your decision and hope that you may reconsider

harry.gibbon

16-08-2009, 19:37

I think that the way to have proceded would be just to desist from posting your pics unannounced and see if it had any impact on the Forum.

Some of us have attempted to put forward proper IT based ideas to assist in the formulating of an eventual solution ... but as ever .... to no avail!!

So we shall continue without your pictorial contributions.

Little h

alanbenn

16-08-2009, 19:50

As far as the "Thank you" posts, I did suggest a way that it might be done and you decided that it wouldn't work

Dave and Harry, You both point out the fact that you put forward an option regarding this issue and say that I dismissed the idea, I would refer you both to posts #128 AND #131 and point out where I dismissed the idea.

Harry, I could have quite easily done as you say and not post photo's without mentioning it, the issue was already out in the open and I had already said to Dave earlier in this thread I appreciated his comments and would welcome further comments from other members before making a decision.

Having taken the time, listened to comments, watched to see if their was any improvement I made my decision and feel it is right to say so.

If a member asked me specifically for a photo (which has been done in the past), it wouldn't seem right to then say No, I stopped posting photo's ages ago.

Regards
Alan

qprdave

16-08-2009, 20:02

If you read my post #165

It say that I regret your decision.

I agree with Harry, you could just have stopped posting and not mentioned it. You could then have IM'd someone that you would like to have one of your pics and sent it by E-Mail.

Really, All you have done is upset the people that do enjoy your Pictures/Badges and thanked you for them.

A bit like punishing the many for the few

harry.gibbon

16-08-2009, 20:13

Alan, Your post #131

Harry, yes totally agree as I said I think it's a fair point and one that should be considered, hopefully more people will respond and then we can make an informed decision.

Then in my last post I said to no avail... in otherwords nothing has or has been seen to have happened ... I didn't say you dismissed it!!!

but... now, you have possibly usurped any possibility of my suggestion happening, however I shall wait and see.

Little h

alanbenn

16-08-2009, 20:37

Harry/Dave, I am not the sole moderator who makes decisions that impact the forum, I said if more comments were made and an informed decision could be made, that will be made not by me or any other moderator, Kc will make that decision...so your anger at nothing being done is unfairly being directed toward me.

Inbetween this post and my last post I was busy reading a pm from a member requesting a photo from my collection and I duly passed it onto him as I have done on several occassions since this issue first came up, I have at no time ever stopped posting photo's of my ships badges, the majority of members on that thread have always passed comment and thanked me on a regular basis and I am more than happy with that thread.

The same cannot be said for the other threads on this forum where photo's of ships are concerned.

You said you respected my decision not to post my photo's and duly critisize me for doing so.

So please do as you say respect it, and refrain from making further incorrect remarks.

Alan

qprdave

16-08-2009, 20:42

Well, Alan. We have given you our opinion as you always say that you encourage opinions and suggestions.

Of course it is your decicion what you do with your picures.

End of story

alanbenn

16-08-2009, 20:56

Dave, yes I do value peoples opinions, I listen to them and as I've said before don't always agree with them, you are entitled to your opinion Dave and I accept that.

But you cannot contradict yourself by saying you respect my decision and then totally disrespect it by then telling me what I should have done and suggest I do what I accuse other members of doing with my photographs.

Of the many members here who have asked if I have a particular photo of a ship via Pm, I have never refused anyone yet, Indeed I usually add to my emails that they should not hestitate to ask if I can help in any further way, they I'm sure would vouch for that.

This is about members showing a bit of appreciation, just like you and Harry do many times a day on different threads to comments posted by each other and many others....yet you take issue when some members including myself ask for this to be done when people download photo's.

Or is there some other agenda here?

Alan

qprdave

16-08-2009, 21:08

Alan. I didn't accuse you of doing what others were doing. Unfortunately I took out a lot of what I said in post #168 as you requested therefore I haven't any proof as to what I said. But you insisted in bringing it up.

I said, that as you were stopping your picture posting, will you still continue to download pictures that others post?

That is a fair question

also

No hidden agenda here! Not a fair question. If you had done what Harry and I had suggested then none of this would have arisen.

Many people in all walks of life help other people and not expect anything in return except the good feeling that they have helped and assisted people.

If we are going to get this all of the time, perhaps it is better that you don't post anymore pictures!

End of Story (again)

harry.gibbon

16-08-2009, 22:21

I have tried to resist from making further comment... however this piece needs a response from me:-

This is about members showing a bit of appreciation, just like you and Harry do many times a day on different threads to comments posted by each other and many others....yet you take issue when some members including myself ask for this to be done when people download photo's.

Or is there some other agenda here?

Alan

However many times I give an expression of appreciation to anybody about whatever.... I can not recall a time when I ASKED for any appreciation to be shown for any of my contributions to any thread, no matter how much time it had taken to prepare and present.

who needs extra agenda's in their lives? not me and certainly not about such as this.

Little h

16-08-2009, 22:35

Just returned from a week's holiday and catching up with posts, so apologies for not replying to the posts sooner. Some of the points here are interesting and (given time) I'll look at giving some of them a run.

Deleting inactive members is a no-no. Aside from Pat's reason, we have also had many people in the past who left messages on the old site, then returned years later with renewed interest, and had replies or more information which helped.

Regarding thanking people for posting, there is a type of system in place which is supposed to be for this, although I haven't really used it. Nobody mentioned it though. The image of the scales on the right hand side of the blue bar above each post (I think that's where they are - I'm doing this from memory) gives the option for people who read each post to add to the reputation of the person who made the post. As the reputation grows, each member attains a new 'level', and these are given a brief description. The descriptions are currently the default ones that came with the software, and so are a bit poor and unrelated to our subject. Essentially it works in the same way as the post count system. I can alter the different levels and the descriptions. Would encouraging the use of that system be better - it is already there?

Alternatively, I made a system in my Directory which keeps a track of every download of an article from the directory. I can see when and who downloaded each individual document. I'm thinking out loud here, but I could extend this to photos, at the expense of having attachments. Instead, any attachments uploaded would be moved into my folders and a record made of downloads. Might even be able to introduce comments for individual images, though perhaps I'm going too far down the line with that. It all takes time, and it's not something I have a lot of at the moment.

Sorry if I've missed a few suggestions - I'm sure I have. Perhaps this will aid the discussion more though.

alanbenn

16-08-2009, 22:48

Harry, the reason I say that is that yet again, as with the last issue on this thread both you and Dave seemed hell bent on directing all the anger at me.

This issue about photo's and comments has also been raised by Terry, Rik, Kookaburra to name a few.

You choose not to take issue with any of them.

I asked for you to point out in posts 128 and 131 where I dismissed the suggestions regarding this matter you couldn't because I didn't, yet you still then went on to suggest that I have put paid to any chance of that happening.....again unfounded as I stated before Kc will make any decisions regarding the forum's operating system...not me.

The point I made was that someone cannot say they respect a decision and then start to critisize it.

But like you too Harry....I have other things I'd rather be doing than getting into another spat with you and Dave, as I say there are others that would like this issue to be addressed by members, perhaps you and Dave will give an equal amount of time you have dedicated to me to vent your opinions to do the same to the others.

Alan

tonclass

16-08-2009, 23:31

kc, glad you are back safely from your jaunt away. I was totally unaware of the 'I approve/Disapprove button.' Thankyou for pointing it out. Perhaps if it was made more public, all this bickering about leaving feedback and arguements starting might be avoided. Alan has done a wonderful job in supplying photo's/badges etc, and had the button been used then, perhaps none of this would have come about. I'm pretty sure 90% of folk on this site don't know about it. I certainly didn't - To be honest I never gave it a second glance..... I will do in the future though !!

harry.gibbon

16-08-2009, 23:40

Alan I have no anger against you at all... please be assured of that.

If the other Mod's want to make or take issue with me about a subject, be it this or any other, then they know my feelings about how they might do so ... and then will I respond to them. You responded so I debated with you!

Looking at Kc's timely contribution I am sure we should all step back and reflect what he has included/offered ... albeit since a system was already in being one wonders why a) this has been missed as an opportunity to assess the scale of any issue and b) why the Mods were not as aware as they might have been about activating the system as a trial for the issue being discussed.

Oh well such is life:)

Little h

tonclass

16-08-2009, 23:44

Harry, everything was in place before kc offered us the job as Mods. I suppose it's down to lack of time/effort etc that we didn't click every button going to understand the site, before passing comment etc.

Must admit I'm at fault here as I didn't !!

16-08-2009, 23:46

The reputation button has always been there, but like I said I've never really done anything with it - probably never even mentioned it anywhere.

Perhaps its time to write a communally drafted set of guidelines for new members. They get an automatic email anyway, and I can stick it in there, as well as in sticky threads about the forum, particularly in the photos section.

Specifically about the photos I was thinking perhaps something along the lines of : All attachments on the forum are kindly uploaded by our members. Please remember that many collectors of ship photos have made huge parts of their collections available to our members free of charge. As you browse the thousands of photos, please take time to acknowledge their effort by adding to heir reputation, or posting a reply on the thread where relevant .....(then some specific spiel about how to add to reputation)...

Would that please our photo gods? :)
(Just to explain that the above is a facetious sentence and is not meant to incur the wrath... er.. annoy any of the guys who have posted large amounts of photos. The fact I'm referring to you as gods in the first place should make my sentiments apparent. Also, I probably won't post disclaimers about facetious comments in future, but given the current climate on the forum, not doing so might be like a match to tinderwood :rolleyes:)

harry.gibbon

16-08-2009, 23:49

Rik, thanks for that, no probs looks like its on the move now!!!:)

Little h

16-08-2009, 23:51

harry, just to explain that the original mods were recruited by me just telling them you are mods, ok? No formal training was given as I expected to be able to handle the systems, and as I did not actually personally know any of the mods, it was wise to withhold a certain degree of power.

Don't blame the mods for not knowing about certain features. I didn't check their CVs for technical IT proficiency :). We are naval enthusiasts, and the forum is a means to an end - to discuss naval history. I would rather have the guys we have as mods now than have a handful of guys selected for IT ability. It (or should that be IT) would just cause more arguments! :rolleyes:

tonclass

16-08-2009, 23:52

Good idea regarding the 'REPUTATION' button, kc. Now that I'm aware, I hope everyone else will also be aware and use it rather than waste time leaving 'Thankyou' messages. It will certainly cut down on the amount of 'wasted' postings (No offence Alan, Terry et al). It is a useful tool that seems to have been little or not used since the forum started. A sticky link on the Gallery thread might be a good way to start - What do others think ?

harry.gibbon

16-08-2009, 23:52

Kc this mini posting angel:) would like to thank you for your contributions and I shall leave the photo gods;) to mull it over ... its their domain not mine.

Thanks

Little h

alanbenn

17-08-2009, 00:04

As you browse the thousands of photos, please take time to acknowledge their effort by adding to heir reputation, or posting a reply on the thread where relevant .....(

Kc, welcome back:D Like Rik I was unaware of the button you have mentioned, but then being the newbie moderator there are lots of thingy's I'm still discovering.

Anyhow regarding your suggestions I think it would help with new members if something along those lines was introduced. However that has been the whole issue from the outset, Rik, Terry, Myself and more recently Kookaburra have all said it is disheartening to see so many members downloading photo's without so much as a quick thank you.
As Kookaburra pointed out it is just bad manners.....

Great if people press a button at least we can see some results, but is it any more hardship just to say thanks. And again I will reiterate my sentiments and I know Terry has said this also...it not expected for everyone to do it all the time for every post....but a bit more regular than they appear to be doing.

Why certain members think we are being unreasonable for that I don't know.

If you walked into a library and someone said here's a photo of Hms Ark Royal it's free, I would say 99.9% of people would say thank you...not just take it and walk away.

So why not apply the same manners here?

Regards
Alan

qprdave

17-08-2009, 00:18

Thanks KC.

If I had know that it existed, I wouldn't have suggested the "Thank you" button. I will certainly use it in the future.

How do you view your recommendations?

OK. Forget my last I have found it

tonclass

17-08-2009, 00:26

Seems nearly nobody knew about this button!!!!! Hopefully now everyone will, and we can all get back being a Naval Happy Family again.????

Bee

17-08-2009, 05:42

Thank goodness you're back Kc :).

Alan, I don't believe that any aggro was being directed at you. As Harry mentioned...you were the one responding to suggestions...so you were mostly on the recieving end. Plus they were only suggestions and they were aimed at trying to help solve a problem. - We all appreciate the many hours of time and loads of pictures that you have contributed to this forum....don't ever forget that. Dave and Harry would probably be your biggest fans (truth be known). Followed closely by me and ALL the others.

Also....I didn't know there was an "appreciation button" either....I just thought it was some symbol for scales of justice or some such thing - I'd never even investigated it.

Looks like this last few postings has turned up something very useful ...thankyou everyone.

Hope you had a great holiday Kc....and thanks even more for your most timely return.

Isn't it nice to know how much we missed you!

:):):):):)Group hug :):):):):)

Cheers,
Bee
p.s. Glad to know you've got IT and are spreading IT around ;) (See, you non believers, I told you IT was important!)

John O'Callaghan

17-08-2009, 08:24

Hi All. As one of the prols out there I hope the the last few posts in this thread are taken as a learning experience to betterment of the site.With my IT expertise (press a button and see what happens) I didn't know about 'the scales'.Folks the time,effort and personal passion you put into sight does you credit.So lets not allow a little frustration overcome us.
Cheers John O'C.

tonclass

17-08-2009, 16:26

To find out if anyone has left a comment for you using the REPUTATION button, just click on USER CP at the top of the page, and if they have, there should be a list in front of you. Only just found this out :)

ivorthediver

17-08-2009, 18:57

kc I would imagine that reading posts154 through to 175 must ,....as the guy where the buck stops......make both interesting reading .......and if I am any judge of character and people ....have alarmed you at the state of play viz membership and Moderators......and the amount of " U turns" and variations on a theme that can be condensed into such a small area of conversation.
As an observer of this latest topic of conversation it must be apparent to you that a little in house education between you and your helpers would be a good place to start ,and the returns for your efforts should well offset the burden it may impose on your good self .
Whilst about it , may I respectfully suggest a little forbearance on the part of some of your helpers would also pay huge dividends and help avoid a lot of unwanted animosity ....which in turn would avoid you having to take over and sort out yet another debacle
Turning to your "scale" icon I feel that this could also stand a bit of improvement .....as you said yourself it was put in at the start and has not been used or modified to suit the intended use you now outline to us
You repeatedly refer to putting it out to new comers ....what about the existing membership.... its quite apparent that they do not know how to use it either
I have no intention of raking over old coals as I have said what I think about past situations and been stone walled ......
I will not be casting my pearls before swine again.......

It would help if ALL YOUR MODERATORS were made known to the membership as it is a bit confusing to say the least... when another member is of equal ranking to me and yet he did not get a chunk of his posts lopped off....during your recent pruning exercise to address what your system thought was a top heavy ranking system ...and referrence was also made to some form of medal to go along side the demotion in recognition of the amount of effort the member had contributed to the forum.....as if as I suspect this will be a reacuring thing when some of the more sensitive senior members will at least have somthing to show for their hard work and give them an incentive to contribute more to the Forum in the way of attracting response from the Membership and help the Forum reach its true potential ........not sit here thinking its the best there is and being complacent

I do hope that this advice meets with a favourable response from you...

As one of the "SENIOR MEMBERS" I would just add that with a little help from you .......you could have more than a couple of Good Moderators to ease your burden and make for a fluid and produtive Forum which could make you the envy of the Forum fraternity rather than a contender

qprdave

17-08-2009, 20:43

KC

Thanks for the reputation information. I have started to use it and I think that it works. You mentioned that you could tweek it somewhat. When the scales are clicked on. Is it possible to have space for the senders name put there by the sender and have it show up on the profile page along with the post, date, Notes.

Then the original poster will know who has posted the message

Dave Blackwell

17-08-2009, 20:55

First of all Ivor, I'm glad to see you post on the forum again. I do hope you are here to keep your wardroom chums company for good. It's quite apparent they miss your banter.

I'm not at all alarmed about what you referred to as the state of play. I welcome u-turns and varations on a theme to a certain extent.... an opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. The discussion in the last couple of days has been productive and has taken on a number of opinions. New information becomes available and can be considered and used in the discussion. I consider that process healthy.

I'm know there is a lot of unseen work that the moderators do behind the scenes; help with queries, help with images etc etc. I don't have the time to deal with every query myself which is a good part of the reason why the moderators are here. I concentrate on the technical side of things and throw in as much help as I can when I can. Some things can only be fixed by myself; things like registration problems. I have found over the last 2+ years that it is a system that works. I'm not overloaded with work from the forum, but elsewhere.

The scales icon is something that was within the software from the start. I chose not to use it as a feature, as it served little purpose until perhaps now. I deliberately did not mention it; that is why the mods don't necessarily know about it, nor many others probably. It's a fair point about putting it out to newcomers, but I did mention existing membership too. I agree it is important to get the existing members too, of course. That I didn't specifically mention that too much was perhaps an oversight on my part - although I did also have that in mind myself.

All moderators are made known to all members. On the front page of the forum, click forum leaders near the bottom centre of the page. All moderators are listed there. I did not prune anything. The changes in post counts occurred as a result of the move of the wardroom thread to shore leave. In shore leave, posts do not count to the overall post count, hence the inequality in the change between yourself and whoever else's post count you were monitoring. If I am any judge of character, I would suggest that you are imagining events behind the scenes here that just aren't happening. No-one targetted your post count - its depletion was simply a result of the single moved thread where you happened to have posted a lot. With reference to the medal thought - it is on the list of things that would be nice but don't really have the time or need for.

I don't know if my response has been favourable for you, but that's not my aim - I just explain logic and reasoning - if that's not favourable with you then I don't have any other alternatives.

Your final points about being an envy of the forum fraternity and being senior member are interesting. I'm not particularly interested in being a supreme forum. All I'm interested in is providing a good home for the discussion of naval history and all associated stuff. By that I specifically mean books, models, obituaries (recently added at the suggestion of qprdave), banter etc etc. If becoming top dog in forumland is a side effect, then great. If not, so be it. Regarding your claim of seniority in the forum, I would say that after barely six months as a member of a forum, I would personally not consider myself a senior member, regardless of my contributions. That's not meant to be offensive to you, I'm just stating my thoughts.

alanbenn

17-08-2009, 21:09

Having looked at the scales icon I notice a few have been left onto my user cp as of today...interesting.

If members begin to use this facility great, it's an improvement as such. However I do feel that the time taken to leave comments using this facility is just as time consuming as posting a thank you in the 1st place.

I don't wish that to sound negative, merely pointing out that the members who have voiced their opinions like myself have only ever asked for that.
and again I'll say not all the time a photo is posted, but if you're downloading one then it should just be common courtesy.

Anyhow I've had my say on this issue, I will see how things develop.

Sincere regards
Alan

17-08-2009, 21:12

I see what you're saying alan. It's not exactly the solution you are looking for. Then again I can't see what is, short of making people comment after they view a photo or they can't view another? Problem with something like that is that it would soon become a pointless waste of time as people just put a dot in the comment to fool the system.

:confused:

alanbenn

17-08-2009, 21:25

Yes, I see where you're coming from KC.

I know it's frustrating for people who post photo's not to get comments, myself included. I also appreciate it is difficult to change peoples habits.

There are a lot of members who do comment and they themselves have said they probably don't do so often enough. I can accept that, and I don't think any of us who post these photo's are aiming our frustration at them.

I have said it is the lack of comments when people download the photo's, I don't know the solution either, I don't think there is one.

My aim was to try and get members to show a bit of forum etiquette or simple manners...the proof is there, as people comment on other members comments or stories regularly and that was my point, if they do it for stories or snippets of info which people have generously provided for their enjoyment why not for the photographs?

Regards
Alan

qprdave

17-08-2009, 21:26

Although the "Reputation" is not perfect for this forum, perhaps it could be tweeked a bit by kc to improve it. We will have to wait and see if this can be done.

One good thing about this is that it removes the Post "Thanks for the Pic" etc. If someone wants to add somewhat more and provide additional information for the benfit of the members then they can post it on the thread.

There are plenty of people who don't know the meaning of thank you. We meet them all the time. Nothing will change that attitude. (probably never taught it as a child). Alan. In your job, which is important and essential, How many patients/Relatives of patients never thank you for possibly saving their lives. I am sure that you don't say that they are not going to be treated next time. You just complain to yourself or your colleagues and get on with it or perhaps you don't even think about it. I know there is a vast difference between work and posting pictures in a forum but it still is about the two words "Thank you".

I do hope that you will reconsider your decision as a lot of people enjoyed your pictorial posts.

ps
This is not criticism of you. It is just how I feel in everyday life.

17-08-2009, 21:29

... in which case, Alan, I'd still opt for drafting a set of forum guidelines among us which I can introduce to new members as they sign up (and send to existing members, Ivor :)) as well as make parts of it sticky in the relevant sections, i.e. photo galleries. I'll write up some sort of draft this week and take it from there, unless anyone has any more or better ideas?

alanbenn

17-08-2009, 21:41

Kc, I do agree that some guidelines should be drafted up for consideration, the subject of forum etiquette could also be included.

I'm sure you will come up with something acceptable to all members new and exsisting.

Regards
Alan

tonclass

17-08-2009, 21:54

Alan - Check your REPUTATIONS on 'user CP' ;)

alanbenn

17-08-2009, 21:57

Qprdave, I agree with the patient/relatives comment you make as a comparison....we do occassionally get thanked by letter to Headquarters, Surprisingly, I would say the majority of patients we treat do actually thank us at the time, but yes there are times that people don't and of course we can't refuse them treatment in the future.

The situation with the photographs Dave is a bit different though, as I have told you in private my collection cost a lot of money to put together over the years. And I know that a lot of members appreciate the fact I upload them.
However, it is without doubt there are numerous people who download them, who haven't commented on them, shown their appreciation in anyway and have not contributed to the forum, examples of which I listed earlier in the thread.

I have to weigh up is it worth the expense to me personally to give all and sundry the majority of my collection if they don't wish to comment, would you?

The members who have asked for particular photo's from my collection either on the forum, by email or PM know I have always helped when I can and always thank me when I have done so.
They will have no hesitation in asking for others if they want any and I will continue to help when I can.

I may at some stage change my mind and post photo's again, but I will only do it that way when I see a marked improvement in what I call forum etiquette....I'm sorry that disappoints you personally Dave, but as I say the members who know I will help will i'm sure understand and contact me if they are looking for a particular photo.

Regards
Alan

qprdave

17-08-2009, 22:08

Alan.

I am not disappointed, personally. Whilst I did enjoy your great pics. I certainly won't lose any sleep over it.

Something that has just occurred to me. What happens if a recipient of your generous donations reposts the same pictures in this forum after a request has been posted? Will you put a "copywrite" on the ones that have already downloaded by me and many others. Because I can't remember which ones are yours and which are not. This could end up with me and others not wanting to post and help others with the pictures that we have collected for fear of them coming from you

tonclass

17-08-2009, 22:08

To compound Alans quandry (spelling), I have, today, just spent £55 + a Penny to buy 2200 warship slides dating from 1964 - 2004. Do I share them on this Forum, or do I keep them to myself, and the few photo-posters whom I regularly swap pix with ? That's the sort of question Alan is asking. Spend loads of cash and give away what you've bought for nothing !! Or just keep them to yourself.
What would you do ?

harry.gibbon

17-08-2009, 22:17

Its simple... if you don't want to post them on the forum because your preference is for the reward of a simple thank you .... then desist from so doing!!!! we won't/wouldn't know(except you have gone ahead and told us)!!!

I hesitate to suggest that there is a certain amount of ego involved gents and really, with what is going on in the real world with planes returning to the UK with our war dead and seriously injured ... then your dilema pales into insignificance... dare I suggest

Little h

17-08-2009, 22:17

I can see your point Rik (and Alan). It would be wrong of me to persuade you either way.

I did suggest one way around this a long time ago which was ignored at the time. If you look on the non-forum part of the site, you will see that all the (recent) images posted by ourselves (WNS owners) have a logo on them. Larger images have small copyright notices on them. They are hardly noticeable, but effective when looking for your photos posted elsewhere on the web.

My suggestion was that I would happily make up a personal logo and or copyright notice overlay for anyone who needed it, mostly the bulk photo uploaders. If anyone has found the single image that they are looking for, they can contact you for the original unedited version. Or, upload a smaller version.

Drawbacks are that it involves more work, and you still get no thanks for your effort. However, you can be sure no-one is really benifitting from scraping your images. (yes, scraping is a technical term for taking all the content you can get from a website).

qprdave

17-08-2009, 22:20

Well Rik

That decision, I would make before I make my first post. If I wanted to post photos that I have spent x amount of pounds on pictures and wanted to share them without any provisions then I probably would. If I wanted recognition, and knowing human nature that not everyone would abide by the proviso then probably not.

This is not the issue that I have been trying to explain to Alan. It is punishing the innocent to get to the guilty. Now I have come up against it, on and off, all my life. At School when the teacher kept us all in to find out who threw the chalk. In the Navy it has happened as well. I disagreed with it then and I still do.

There is nothing that I can do about it. It is up to you and alan and all the others that have generously posted pics to decide what you are going to do.

tonclass

17-08-2009, 22:30

Harry, this has nothing to do with what's happening with our Armed Forces at the moment. It is purely down to sharing our past with like-minded others. You wouldn't have joined if you weren't one of them !!
Does saying 'THANKYOU' for a pic of your last (any) ship - maybe in colour, compare to what is happening in Afghanistan. I think not!! This is predominantly a trip down memory lane for most.

All it has brought to light is the 'REPUTATION' button that is available, which no-one knew existed until last night.

Just chill out and say 'CHEERS' privately once in a while. You don't have to broadcast it on the forum !!

I'm sure all the photo posters will see the comments left on the 'user CP' button and think they have done someone a good service, and be gratified by it in the long run.

alanbenn

17-08-2009, 22:32

I hesitate to suggest that there is a certain amount of ego involved gents and really, with what is going on in the real world with planes returning to the UK with our war dead and seriously injured ... then your dilema pales into insignificance... dare I suggest

No ego on my behalf Harry, just want people to be a bit more well mannered on the forum.

As for your 2nd comment I would agree with the sentiment entirely, but to actually mention it in such a way to make us feel guilty or perhaps egotistical is wrong, we could have said the same thing to you over the last issue of an 'open forum' I think your diplomatic skills have let you down this time Harry.

Regards
Alan

qprdave

17-08-2009, 22:43

"just want people to be a bit more well mannered on the forum."

If you can get everyone to be well mannered on this forum, which some, I suggest have never been then good luck to you Alan.

As far a Harry's diplomatic skills is concerned. Some people need more than diplomacy to see the wood from the trees.

Perhaps you would agree to everyone who disagrees with you and actually says so be excluded from this forum. I am sure that you would not admit to it here and say the opposite.

harry.gibbon

17-08-2009, 22:45

Gents why don't you just allow Kc's various helpfull suggestions (since his return) get some legs under them and see how they pan out ... :confused:

I am not in the least trying to be diplomatic since that practice on this thread clearly bears no fruit.

You guys say it like you see it, now so have I ... when in Rome apparently.

Little h (oh and still quit chilled:))

tonclass

17-08-2009, 22:49

Personally, I am after photo's of one, maybe two or three of a specific class of warships. The extras I get are purely a bonus. Do I hang on to them and post them on SHIPSPOTTING.COM where they get recognition and financial remuneration, or do I share them with 'Friends' on this site. Much as I'd like to get loadsa dosh, this site is much more of a community and I would happily continue to share photo's with those that really were looking for them, rather than make an odd buck or two. You make so many new friends on this site, it's hard to resist a request. So !! If you are able to just say 'CHEERS' in the 'REPUTATION' box, it would mean a lot !!

Harry, how you can compare what is happening with our Armed Forces - with this site !! It abhores me !! We have no connection whatsoever !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QPRDAVE - It's a matter of choice who we share pix with. It's down to the receiver what he does with it. If he downloads it and says nothing, then chances are he won't be getting any more. It's just a case of Feedback - whether privately or publically. Nothing conived or difficult (spelling again..) just common decency.

'You say Thanks - we post more pix' Is that not a formula for success ?

harry.gibbon

17-08-2009, 22:49

Dave sorry our postings crossed!!! Little h

alanbenn

17-08-2009, 22:55

Dave, seems you've already formed your opinion my friend, as you say it doesn't matter what I say you're not going to believe it, so I won't bother giving my honest opinion.

And no I don't expect I could change anyones manners either and I won't be going out of my way to do so.

As for the diplomacy comment, my opinion was not directed at you and I stand by what I said, it was a cheap shot...and could be classed as 'don't throw stones in greenhouses'

If Harry wants to make a comment like that then he should be wondering why he is also contributing to this issue if he feels so strongly about it.

Kc is attempting to solve the problem in part, that's good enough for me.

As for yourself Dave you should do as you said in the 1st place,then again and then again, respect my decision.....so then don't keep critisizing it.

And to quote your goodself....End of story.
Alan

qprdave

17-08-2009, 23:12

Seeing that the both of you deem it unecessay to respond to the question that I answered .(post #206) I can only come to the conclusion that it doesn't fit in with your argument.

I will not be responding to anymore posts on this subject as it is just a waste of time. I will repeat what I have said before. You do what you feel that you have to do and leave it at that.

End of

tonclass

17-08-2009, 23:19

Fair enough Dave. You are entitled to your opinion, just as we are, but what exactly was your question that we may put an answer to ? Don't want to fall out over pedantics, so can you be more precise and we'll give you a sensible thought-out answer !!

qprdave

17-08-2009, 23:25

tonclass

17-08-2009, 23:56

Well, depending on yourself and the rest of the forum, I would be happy to share them, but there has been so much backstabbing going on, I'm unsure what to do !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

astraltrader

18-08-2009, 00:49

Strewth I am away for three days and look what happens - all of this breaks out!!

I think I will make it a first for me by not saying anything!!!

astraltrader

18-08-2009, 00:55

Other than where are my reputation points!!!

Bee

18-08-2009, 04:29

Re: qprDave Response as to whether or not to share photos that one had spent a lot of money on:

"That decision, I would make before I make my first post. If I wanted to post photos that I have spent x amount of pounds on pictures and wanted to share them without any provisions then I probably would. If I wanted recognition, and knowing human nature that not everyone would abide by the proviso then probably not.This is not the issue that I have been trying to explain to Alan. It is punishing the innocent to get to the guilty. Now I have come up against it, on and off, all my life. At School when the teacher kept us all in to find out who threw the chalk. In the Navy it has happened as well. I disagreed with it then and I still do.
There is nothing that I can do about it. It is up to you and alan and all the others that have generously posted pics to decide what you are going to do.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum!

I wholeheartedly agree with Dave and his comment above.
Sadly we can't change the world...we can let people know that we'd appreciate recognition but that's not going to always happen. There are those who will always say (and mean) thankyou and those who won't..ever.
Do you therefore penalise everyone by not posting.

From my experience, I share/d my Dad's memorabilia because I thought it better to put it before a wider audience....Yes we, his family, could have hoarded it...because of its rarity....but what good would that do? One day
someone might incorporate bits into a book....and make heaps of $$s out of it. Well good on them...at least the history won't die.

I guess it depends on your priorities.

Once again....I say Thankyou to all the people who contribute to this forum and a special THANKYOU to Kc and all the Moderators.
Also I'm looking forward to making full use of the "Reputation" button.

Regards,
Bee

p.s. With regards to the photos...Kc's suggestion of a personal logo, or some such thing sounds like a good idea....then the people who scan them up (scrape them) would have to contact the submitter to access the non watermarked photo...this might help you Alan and others with large photo collections??

ivorthediver

18-08-2009, 05:31

Thank you Bee .....sound advice

I think that as a "none senior member "........it is time to put this in kc's hands to resolve with his helpers and leave it be

To the Photo Gods.....Add your mark as kc recommends and leave it be

To the rest of the Forum ....lets get on with life ....it ain't that long

karen

18-08-2009, 08:37

As a new member to this Forum I do not wish to comment too much on this topic---but here is my view to all of this.

As a child I was alway's taught "my pleases and thankyou's",nobody expects anybody to get down on their bended knee's--but as my dad alway's said to me..."A thankyou will go along way in this world".

So come on "Lads and Lasses"---Let's have a few more words of thankyou's and sign's of appreciation!!!!!!.

If It was not for KC and the other brilliant moderators that have set up this Forum,nobody in this world would have a clue what went on---and what is going on now!!!
Personally from me if they are willing to share their info and picture's---then have a bit of respect,and acnowledge them for it!!!.

As I say now-----Life is too short to be upsetting everyone and everybody.

Karen

harry.gibbon

18-08-2009, 08:45

Other than where are my reputation points!!!
P L E A S E!!!!!:D:D:D:D

billbuntintosser

18-08-2009, 11:43

qprdave

18-08-2009, 15:25

Here's one for KC. I posted it the other day and it probably got missed. If it was ignored then just ignore it again.

KC

Thanks for the reputation information. I have started to use it and I think that it works. You mentioned that you could tweek it somewhat. When the scales are clicked on. Is it possible to have space for the senders name put there by the sender and have it show up on the profile page along with the post, date, Notes.

Then the original poster will know who has posted the message

Dave Blackwell

18-08-2009, 15:35

Dave, it wasn't ignored. I just neglected to inform you I had taken it on board - my bad, sorry! :(

I actually spent quite a few hours researching what might be good additions or solutions for the ideas put forward. I guess that is the nub of one of the annoyances expressed in this thread: I did read the post and I am looking at doing something to the system based on many of them, including your's Dave, although I probably did not respond to it directly.

I went through a forum of 'plug-ins' for the vbulletin (forum) software. Out of about 1500 bits and pieces, about ten caught my eye. Some are harder to implement than others and some are probably not worth the hassle, but rest assured the ones that caught my eye were based on suggestions made in this thread. It's almost impossible to find the exact add-on you want, but I can maybe tweak what bits they provide myself, if you lot are prepared to let me loose on software that someone else has written? :p It could be WNSforum apocalypse. :eek:

qprdave

18-08-2009, 15:39

Thanks for your very quick response.

I would say go for it!!!

As long as you don't blow up my computer. (although I think there are some who might offer a financial incentive for you to do just that)

Just kidding!!!!!!

ivorthediver

18-08-2009, 19:51

Go for it kc any improvement that deters another "exchange of points of views and opinions" like that would be worth the effort I feel

THANK YOU !

tonclass

18-08-2009, 22:27

kc, I've been using the 'Scales' button since last night and it appears that it is just what this site wanted, without realising it !! It just needs all the other posters to know about it - and use it.

Any improvement on it can only be a bonus.

Rik

astraltrader

19-08-2009, 00:37

I have used it occasionally over the past year and a half or so, but as nobody else seemed to be using it other than Sailor then I stopped.

Personally I have reservations on how useful it will prove to be.
Having seen it in use in other forums it has nearly always ended up being used by a small group of posters to pat each other on the back with.

As a long term picture provider I would much rather have an intelligent and thoughtful post in response to a picture I had posted, than receive some "mark" that only I could see anyway.

But I do stress this is my opinion only.

In other forums it is often used to acknowledge efforts made by a member to help another in finding info or sometimes pictures and as well for interesting articles. Whilst this might sound ok it only ever seems to be used by a minority of always well established members.

astraltrader

19-08-2009, 01:00

But saying all of that I have just noticed two very kind comments that have just been made by a couple of members. [you know who it was!!]
Total vanity I know but I thank you very much - it meant a great deal.:)

qprdave

19-08-2009, 01:24

I note you comments, Terry re the button. Perhaps we can hold back on comments until kc can see if he can adapt it for this forum.

You mention that on other forums it is only used by a certain few. Well isn't the thank you post the same. only a certain few actually post the thanks. The majority don't bother.

Members who have no intention of thanking you by posting it are not going to use it. Unless, of course, this forum gives everyone 5 pounds per use.!!!!!!

I think it will unclog the small posts that just says "thanks for the pics" This can be done by using the new system.

Nobody wants to see posters of great pictures, like yourself, stop posting because these ill mannered people will not listen.

I fear that this forum will become picture less because there will be nothing we can do to solve the problem. It will be the good mannered members who do thank you that will suffer.

Dave

Bee

19-08-2009, 01:58

Re: Dave's comment about incentive for saying thankyou/using Reputatiion button. "Unless, of course, this forum gives everyone 5 pounds per use.!!!!!!"

What a novel idea! :D:D Can't exactly see it being taken up though :)
Regards,
Bee

p.s.
Kc, I wish you all the best with your forum "tweaking" I'm sure you'll have some sort of a "backup". I know that whenever our computer expert (Hubby) used to announce he was going to "reformat the C drive" it would put the whole family into a panic and there would be a mad scramble to "save" special bits and pieces that might get lost in the process. I don't know if that's a normal occurence or only happened here...but as they say...once bitten...:eek:
Anyway....happy, safe tweaking.
Bee :)

qprdave

19-08-2009, 02:13

That is normal when you are reformatting your main drive. Everything disappears unless you save everything that you want to keep.

It is a lot easier to fit another drive into your computer. All computers normally have a space to fit it. Once that is done transfer all of your "Valuable data" over to it. and save subsequent pictures etc to it. Then if you main drive blows up and you have to reformat, there is nothing there to worry about. Somtimes you don't get a chance to save anything if there is a major crash.

alanbenn

19-08-2009, 09:59

I think it will unclog the small posts that just says "thanks for the pics" This can be done by using the new system.

Dave, small posts they maybe but they go a long way in letting people know their efforts are being recognised, however if your opinion is that these sort of posts are unecessary, then what, do we apply the same rule to short messages such as 'thanks for the link' which many people have put in response to Little h searching out info on the internet for members.

It is only these 'small posts' that let him know his efforts are appreciated.

I really can't get my head round why there are so many objections to people just saying thanks, instead you'd rather have a system adapted to give a facility to say 'thanks' but nobody else would see it.....

I have to date received about 8 'reputation' comments, which I am extremely grateful to get, a good few of those have comments accompanying them....... a process which takes just as long as a normal post.

So why adapt the system to something that will probably take as long to do as a normal post?

Regards
Alan

Guz rating

19-08-2009, 11:03

qprdave

19-08-2009, 12:03

OK Alan

Why don't you just let it go.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was mainly you that was complaining that your contributions was going unnoticed and unthanked. We have been trying to solve the problem albeit only a small way. Seeing that you have stopped posting photos, I assumed that it wouldn't affect you. Unless you are thinking of restarting the posting. All you keep doing is coming back with the statement that you want everyone to be nice and well mannered. If you really thought that it could happen, I am sure that you wouldn't have refrained from posting pictures. I think that there would be real cause for concern if everyone didn't thank you or anyone else

I have been trying to help in a small way by thinking of ways to accommodate the guys who are going to carry on posting

Just let this run for a while. kc is looking into modifying the "button". Lets see if he can do it. If he can't then I will be the first to stop suggesting any further on the subject. kc will be doing all the work, while we sit here in front of our computers carrying on as usual. Lets give him a bit of time and backing while he tries. He is willing to give his time in trying to improve and adapt the forum to better the experience. So why are you trying to sabotage it?

Why are you so much against nearly everything that is suggested? We are not complaining about the lack of thanks that we get. It is a few of you that are doing that, and probably you are right. People will not "Thank you" if they don't want to.

I obviously don't know you. For all I know, you may be the type of person that is against everything that you didn't think of, as I said. I don't know you.

If this system doesn't work then I will wash my hands of the whole subject and probably refrain from suggesting anything else if all I am going to get is complaints from other members that either refuse to think it through and dump it out of hand or criticise it without firstly trying it out..

So just give it a chance. You said that you have got some messages. That is good. It shows that some members are willing to give it a go. If kc comes back and says "There is nothing I can do" I will not keep on at him to change it. I will just let it go. If you and the other members come to the conclusion that you don't want to post pictures then so be it. A big loss to the forum and to the lovers of Warship photos. I cannot and will not say thank you for the members who refuse to do so. I will thank the poster when I feel that it is deserved.

You may want and indeed enjoy scrolling down the page reading the "thank you" for the effort when you post. You may want everyone else to see that they are thanking you, I don't know.

Personally it doesn't take me long to get a bit tired of reading them and scrolling down to get to the next important and interesting post. I joined this forum to learn and to have a little bit of fun with fellow ex-matelots who have the same interests as me.

It would be great if everyone was well mannered and kind to everyone. It would be great if there was no famine in the world, It would be great if there was no wars. But it ain't gonna happen. We just have to get on with life and learn to live with it.

Dave