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Kevin Denlay
17-06-2008, 13:38
The attached is a schematic of the engine room / boiler room layout on the cruiser HMS Exeter. The bow of ship is to the right. Can anyone tell me which is A and B boiler room and which is A and B engine room please.

Is it just, from bow, A - B (boiler) and A - B (engine) or some other layout?

Kevin

Benbow
17-06-2008, 14:22
I think you will find that the Boiler room forward is A, same for the Engine rooms. I am sure some cruiser guys will be able to answer if I am wrong.

On the Daring Class destroyer I served on we called it the UNIT SYSTEM.

We had the forward Boiler room (A) in front of (A) Engine room. Then there was a division that ran athwartships ,to starboard was the Workshop (lathes) and Office . To port was the laundry run by some Asians fellows. We then had B boiler room ahead of B engineroom.

Note;These were open front boilers fed by by 4 steam fans so we had an airlock entry into the boiler rooms

The Unit System enabled one boiler room to be shut down (if damaged or to save on fuel),both engine rooms steamed on the other boiler. We did this a lot on Bierra Patrol in the 60's to save on Fuel Oil (FFO)

jbryce1437
17-06-2008, 18:50
I believe that the Engine and Boiler Rooms on ships had the same naming convention as gun turrets. "A" would be forward and "B" would be aft of that, - for a 4 engined/boilered ship, "X" would be next aft and "Y" would be farthest aft. The gear boxes/plummer blocks would have the Engine prefix that supplied it, ie "A" or "B" etc.
Mind you, I was only a Greenie;)

Kevin Denlay
18-06-2008, 20:56
I think you will find that the Boiler room forward is A, same for the Engine rooms. I am sure some cruiser guys will be able to answer if I am wrong.

Thanks Benbow, thats what I kinda thought, but was hoping for a firm confirmation.

K

NSR
18-06-2008, 21:06
I am not familiar with the layout of cruisers so your sketch has me slightly flummoxed. Is the fore and aft line in the boiler and engine rooms a dividing bulkhead to give four compartments each? This would imply that Exeter has four screws and, assuming that the Unit System was in use, would have an effect on the designations. The A, B, X, Y designations would cover it but I have not come across that particular description. Depending on the number of boilers in each boiler room, using two as an example, they could be A1, A2, B1, B2 and so on. But that is purely guess work.

The engines would have individual telegraphs to control them but would normally operate in pairs if required to turn at different speeds. They would be designated Port Inner, Port Outer, Starboard Inner and Starboard outer.

The Clossus class carriers were peculiar in that they had two Machinery spaces. The forward space contained two boilers to Port (boilers 1 and 2) and the Starboard main engine plus the usual auxiliaries. The after machinery space contained two boilers to Starboard (boilers 3 and 4) and the Port main engine. The result was that the Starboard engine shaft was much longer than the Port and the props were at slightly different angles in the water. This was probably the reason for the vibration when steaming at high speed during landings and take-offs.

My other experience was in smaller vessels including Battle Class and C Class destroyers, minesweepers and survey vessels. These all had two boilers, each in its own compartment occupying the full width of the hull, and a single engine room with two main engines. The designations were Forward or No 1 boiler, Aft or No 2 boiler and the engines were simply Port and Starboard main engines. The systems were basically the Unit system, i.e. one boiler, one engine but cross connections were used to provide a common supply and, during economical steaming, one boiler could supply both engines.

On cruisers the Unit system would apply, i.e. A boiler room would supply A main engine, etc. but there would be provision for cross connection when running at economical speed. Sorry that I can't be more definitive.

Ken

Robert McDougall
19-06-2008, 08:19
Heres my pennys worth, as previously mentioned A forward B aft. Starboard boiler no. 1 and port no. 2, rule being odds starboard evens port, especially numbering compartments and machinery.
My experience of a sweeper and frigate, 2 boilers side by side, stbd being no 1 port no 2. Inverell had 2 admiralty 3 drum boilers, open fronted, saturated steam and air locks. Otago and Taranaki babcock forced draft boilers side by side. I had a look over Lachlan's (River class frigate) boiler rooms which were still there 2 boiler rooms, one boiler in each.
I had a look over an American destroyer, very exotic. This had 2 boiler rooms, 2 boilers in each, Foster Wheeler D series, 900 psi 1200 degree superheat. the boilers were along the ships centreline with the boiler fronts facing each other.
There was two engine rooms, each main engine had two turbines, hp and lp to wring every last ounce of energy from the steam.
Daring class destroyers I remember seeing HMAS Duchess in Fiji, we did some drills outside of Suva. I remember watching the smoke that she put out while steaming and we stokers made a remark about it. One of POMEs stated that it was due to the twin furness boilers, being hard to balance air rates for a clean fire. So my question what was her boilers? A previous statement of open fronted boilers has sparked this question. Might as well go the whole hog what boilers in Exeter?

Benbow
19-06-2008, 13:38
Heres my pennys worth, as previously mentioned A forward B aft. Starboard boiler no. 1 and port no. 2, rule being odds starboard evens port, especially numbering compartments and machinery.
My experience of a sweeper and frigate, 2 boilers side by side, stbd being no 1 port no 2. Inverell had 2 admiralty 3 drum boilers, open fronted, saturated steam and air locks. Otago and Taranaki babcock forced draft boilers side by side. I had a look over Lachlan's (River class frigate) boiler rooms which were still there 2 boiler rooms, one boiler in each.
I had a look over an American destroyer, very exotic. This had 2 boiler rooms, 2 boilers in each, Foster Wheeler D series, 900 psi 1200 degree superheat. the boilers were along the ships centreline with the boiler fronts facing each other.
There was two engine rooms, each main engine had two turbines, hp and lp to wring every last ounce of energy from the steam.
Daring class destroyers I remember seeing HMAS Duchess in Fiji, we did some drills outside of Suva. I remember watching the smoke that she put out while steaming and we stokers made a remark about it. One of POMEs stated that it was due to the twin furness boilers, being hard to balance air rates for a clean fire. So my question what was her boilers? A previous statement of open fronted boilers has sparked this question. Might as well go the whole hog what boilers in Exeter?


http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/rn/destroyers/daring/

This site confirms the Diamond had Foster Wheeler boilers

On HMS Diamond (D35) in the 60's we had 2 x Foster Wheeler duel furness boilers,(1xsaturated and 1x superheat furnaces) possibly same on the Duchess. You had a stoker on each furnace operating the sprayers , the POME stood behind you contolling the fuel flow from 2x steam reciprocating oil (FFO) pumps (one was on standby)and he would have one hand on the valve wheel for controlling the speed on 4Turbo fans.

There was a light bulb at the rear of the furnace uptake to the funnel and by looking at a mirror above him he could see if there was poor combustion. (No see light= lotta smoke! )

We also had 2 huge steam reciprocating feed water pumps. Good for putting an open can of beans on top of or a spud for eating mid watch!

The boileroom included one Evaporator and a Turbo generator. Normal steaming at sea we had a crew of 5. In harbour steaming auxillary 4, only one sprayer jockey was required!

One memory I have is that we never wore ear muffs in those days and those turbo fans screamed like he**!!

tim lewin
19-06-2008, 17:10
wandering a bit off track I can recall my father telling me about the time when he was en route to Norway with HMS Urchin (type 15) in the early sixties by which time she would have been around 20 years old, when the main condensor inlet pipe burst open due to rust, flooding great quantities of chilly oggin to the machinery spaces. The way he told it was that he and the engineering team were completely unfazed by this, they just swung the ship and continued towards Norway sternwards at more modest pace to take the pressure off the intake until the cement patch cured, swung again and a few "extra matresses" on the boiler until they were back on schedule. That patch held until the end of Urchin's sea service and her organ transplant (stern section) to HMS Ulster (see earlier posts). I remember my first visit to her boiler room (age 15) via the airlock and seeing how things were as we went from 15 kts to 25kts, a deep and lasting impression of the raw and frightening power of steam in the hands of professional stokers!
tim

NSR
19-06-2008, 22:30
The dual furnace boilers fitted in the Darings were just being introduced about the time I left the RN so I never got the opportunity to see them in action. Juggling sprayers between the two furnaces sounds like quite an art.

The reference to the US Destroyer having 1200 degrees superheat seems quite high. Water dissassociates into Hydrogen and Oxygen at about 1500 degrees and local hot spots can sometimes reach that level and cause problems.

In the Machinery Handbook, BR16, iron 'burning' in the presence of steam is dealt with in Article 223, Accidents due to the presence of Hydrogen. I never came across this at sea but experienced a variation that occurred several times in the high-pressure boilers at Willington Power Station. A Station operated at 1640 psi with 1050 degrees superheat and B Station at 2400 psi with 1050 degrees superheat and reheat. There it was known as hydrogen embrittlement due to its action on the structure of the steel tube. The result was a section of a furnace tube giving way and the rush of steam and water blowing out the fire. This was quite exciting (?) as it occurred suddenly without warning and required a rapid shut down of the unit. Happily, the design of the boilers meant that the damage was confined to the interior of the furnace and was repairable.

According to our instructors, the Article in BR16 arose from an incident when a feed regulator failed and the boiler was starved of water. The rate of steam flow was such that the top drum was emptied in about a minute and the top of the furnace tubes became red hot. At this point disassociation occurred and the result was like a series if gas jets as the hydrogen burnt in the furnace air. Disaster was avoided by opening the manual feed valve and flooding the top drum but the boiler was badly damaged.

As Tim says, steam can be a marvellous servant but a dangerous master.

Kevin Denlay
20-06-2008, 00:23
So my question what was her boilers? A previous statement of open fronted boilers has sparked this question. Might as well go the whole hog what boilers in Exeter?


Hi Robert,

According to her stats in Cruisers of WW11 by M J Whitley "Machinery: 4 shaft Parsons geared turbines. 8 Admiralty 3-drum boilers.'

Now from what 'killed' Exeter it appears she only had two boiler rooms, A and B, not X and Y as some have postulated. I say this as on 27th Feb 1942 her B boiler room was knocked out reducing her speed by half. Then on March 1st another 8" shell to her A boiler room killed all power to the ship and spelt her doom. So from this I assume (rightly or wrongly of course) that there were only two boiler rooms. Correct me I am wrong.


So it is the positioning of said boiler rooms and which one fed which engine room (on schematic I posted) that I am after.

Thanks everyone for all the input.

K

Kevin Denlay
20-06-2008, 00:28
I am not familiar with the layout of cruisers so your sketch has me slightly flummoxed. Is the fore and aft line in the boiler and engine rooms a dividing bulkhead to give four compartments each? This would imply that Exeter has four screws and, assuming that the Unit System was in use, would have an effect on the designations. The A, B, X, Y designations would cover it but I have not come across that particular description.

Hi Ken,

I am not sure exactly what that fore and aft line is, but as you say, if it was a bulkhead it would/could imply possibly four boiler rooms. But I don’t think Exeter had four 'named' boiler rooms as such, although she did have four screws. (See info previous post.)

K

Benbow
20-06-2008, 01:10
The dual furnace boilers fitted in the Darings were just being introduced about the time I left the RN so I never got the opportunity to see them in action. Juggling sprayers between the two furnaces sounds like quite an art.

The reference to the US Destroyer having 1200 degrees superheat seems quite high. Water dissassociates into Hydrogen and Oxygen at about 1500 degrees and local hot spots can sometimes reach that level and cause problems.

In the Machinery Handbook, BR16, iron 'burning' in the presence of steam is dealt with in Article 223, Accidents due to the presence of Hydrogen. I never came across this at sea but experienced a variation that occurred several times in the high-pressure boilers at Willington Power Station. A Station operated at 1640 psi with 1050 degrees superheat and B Station at 2400 psi with 1050 degrees superheat and reheat. There it was known as hydrogen embrittlement due to its action on the structure of the steel tube. The result was a section of a furnace tube giving way and the rush of steam and water blowing out the fire. This was quite exciting (?) as it occurred suddenly without warning and required a rapid shut down of the unit. Happily, the design of the boilers meant that the damage was confined to the interior of the furnace and was repairable.

According to our instructors, the Article in BR16 arose from an incident when a feed regulator failed and the boiler was starved of water. The rate of steam flow was such that the top drum was emptied in about a minute and the top of the furnace tubes became red hot. At this point disassociation occurred and the result was like a series if gas jets as the hydrogen burnt in the furnace air. Disaster was avoided by opening the manual feed valve and flooding the top drum but the boiler was badly damaged.

As Tim says, steam can be a marvellous servant but a dangerous master.


Yup the two furnaces were fun and quite a handful for the POME I/C when steaming at high speed. I was an ex Ganges boy and at 16 found myself in front of a real monster. In my watch we had 2 junior stokers on the sprayers, one of us on each furnace.

I have an Official photo of HMS Diamond at full power taken I think, in the channel somewhere. Looks like a graceful greyhound , I was down in A boiler room at the time, quite an experience. Very noisy, me green as grass.

I do remember once entering Gibralter in some fog , I was again in A boiler on the sprayers, we received a Full Astern on the Chadburn(Emergency order) we had all sprayers going on and then we went to STOP, it was like a mad house getting them shut off before we blew the safety valves and every one on the bridge would have been running to change under wear and a right royal rollicking for the poor POME!

I sure we were a heart beat away from watching that boiler jump off its mounts!

tim lewin
20-06-2008, 04:39
Do i remember correctly that HMS Diamond was "adopted" by De Beers and had much of her brass work chrome-plated?

Benbow
20-06-2008, 16:08
Yes ,De Beers adopted the Diamond.

I know when we were in Cape Town,SA that some chaps got a trip up to one of the diamond mines. Once we were moored in the Pool of London and De Beers put on a dance party for us in one of there offices, I think in Wardour Street .

I don't know about the chrome but we used a lot of Bluebell polishing stuff.

Another memory is the use of TRETOL for painting the lagging in the boileroom and enginerooms. I wonder how many of us have a sleeping illness with all that asbestos floating around !!!

NSR
20-06-2008, 22:27
I do remember once entering Gibralter in some fog , I was again in A boiler on the sprayers, we received a Full Astern on the Chadburn(Emergency order) we had all sprayers going on and then we went to STOP, it was like a mad house getting them shut off before we blew the safety valves and every one on the bridge would have been running to change under wear and a right royal rollicking for the poor POME!

Benbow, I know how you must have felt. Scenario: HMS Contest; middle watch; acting as part of the escort to Albion during an exercise; duty escort with both boilers lit; telegraph at Half Ahead with 196 revs on the board. Suddenly the telegraphs ring down Full Astern both engines. I had the Starboard Astern throttle open four turns before I began to shut the Ahead and yelled at the Leading Stoker on the Port engine to do likewise. The engines must have fel like someone wringing out a sponge. The engine room stoker rang the boiler room telegraph to warn them. The steam pressure dropped from 350psi to about 290psi and the TGs began to slow. We went from 196 revs ahead to about 180 revs astern in under a minute although I don't know what our speed through the water was. After about a minute and a half we got Stop Both followed by Half Ahead Both (obey rev indicator). Shortly afterwards the phone went and it was the Captain, Commander Roxburgh, at the other end. His words were, 'I've never seen a ship go astern so fast in my life'. My reply, as far as I can remember the words, was, 'At one thirty in the morning I didn't think you were playing silly buggers, Sir, But we were lucky because we had both boilers lit and the boiler room crews responded brilliantly. What happened.' His reply was, 'It was the attacking force. We spotted Armada on the Radar coming in for a torpedo attack and assumed that she would turn at the last minute. She didn't. If we had continued we would have carved straight through her midships'. That is one of the joys of being in the engine room department, you don't often need clean underwear as you don't know what is going on up top.

Ken

John Odom
20-06-2008, 22:54
1200 degrees F superheat is correct for some US destroyers beginning in the late 1950s. During that time I was working for an analytical instrument manufacturer developing new technology which reduced the time to fully analyze a batch of steel from 4 hours to less than 15 min, including sampling , sample prep and reporting back to the furnace master. This was very important to the US Navy, because boiler tubes were failing when subjected to sudden changes of operating conditions at such high superheat. If the chemistry of a 400 ton furnace full of molten steel was correct they didn't know it for 4 hours and by that time the chemistry had changed. They needed to hold closer tolerances on the chemistry to reliably make the high performance boiler tubes. This was suficiently important to the US NAVY that I was given the "essential civillian employment" classification and not drafted. The instrument I designed was a workhourse of the steel industry for 35 years.

NSR
21-06-2008, 20:33
John,

That was an interesting sidelight on high superheat. I can see the point about the rapidly changing conditions to which a marine boiler would be subjected, the boilers in power stations would be required to change loads but under much more controlled conditions and far less frequently. It would require a much higher material specification to withstand the conditions required by the US Navy at those pressures and temperatures.

The phenomenon that we encountered occurred in the furnace tubes, not in the superheaters. From memory, under certain conditions some areas of the furnace tubes could develop hot spots and the water flowing through them become overheated. This resulted in pockets where some molecules of water released Hydrogen and Oxygen ions. The metallurgist explained that the steel tubes were composed of Ferrite (pure iron) and Pearlite (Iron carbide) and the action was that the Hydrogen leached out the Carbon from the Pearlite to form Methane gas. The pure iron left behind plus some of the Ferrite combined with the Oxygen to form Iron Oxide. (I can't remember if it was Ferrous or Ferric Oxide but it was Black Oxide). This gradually weakened the area until it gave way under pressure and, as we had no means of monitoring it, it occurred without warning. I don't think that the steel used had an ultra high specification and the failures only occurred after some 35,000 to 40,000 steaming hours. The failure usually appeared like a letter box blown out of the tube rather than a split.

Ken

Robert McDougall
23-06-2008, 08:05
I've been thinking about John Odom's comment about his design for analysing steel quality control during manufacture. Its this kind of backroom work that seldom if at all gets a mention. The impact of this kind of work touches us all and we don't realise it. I remember during my apprenticeship a tutor mentioned the frustration of toolmakers spending days making dies, lots of that time polishing, only to have it crack during heat treatment or worse distort out of shape, even though allowances were made during manufacture. Elsewhere in another thread about type 15 frigates, there was reference to the steel used in their manufacture. That they rusted very quick. Steel isn't just steel

tim lewin
24-06-2008, 04:20
you are absolutely right there Robert; I vsit frequently HMS Belfast to see the director of the ship, it is his contention that the original fabric of the ship is still in excellent condition, the main problem with rust is in the later post-war additions where the steel quality is very much reduced.
tim

jonti
25-06-2008, 01:13
Tim.
Back to your mention of 'de Beers' adoption of HMS Diamond, I served an 18 month commission on her in 1961-63 with 9 months in the 'Med' and 9 in the Home Fleet. I was the the CPOs & POs representative on the Welfare Committee for the commission and my recollection was that we had the best sporting equipment in particular footbal and cricket clothing in the Squadron.
The Welfare Committee was never scratching for funds on Diamond. Rob T

Harley
25-06-2008, 01:28
you are absolutely right there Robert; I vsit frequently HMS Belfast to see the director of the ship, it is his contention that the original fabric of the ship is still in excellent condition, the main problem with rust is in the later post-war additions where the steel quality is very much reduced.
tim

"Belfast" was built when a certain standard could still be expected. The late D.K. Brown informed me that when he joined H.M.S. "Euryalus" in 1950, her inner bottom was pitted with corrosion. Apparently oil leaking into the boiler rooms was not an uncommon experience. And this for a ship in commission nine years (with at least two refits)!

Harley

tim lewin
25-06-2008, 05:23
thanks for the update on Diamond, do ships still get adopted? I remember during the Falklands that Brilliant was adopted by Tunbridge Wells, I also remember Jaguar sporting a huge white jaguar from a jaguar car showroom on the platform of her foremast (Altho I am not sure if this had been "liberated" of the ship had a more formal connection).

Coming back to steel quality, I remember someone once telling me that the emergency-built ships were constructed from "black steel" which had a strong temdanct to rust, pitting and lamination, but I guess that as the life of many of them could be estimated in months rather than years expediency took precendence over longevity! I don't think that when these ships were built anyone thought how they might be adapted to changing circmstances twenty years into a peacetime future...
tim

ceylon220
12-07-2008, 09:11
I`ll probably get put of the site for this but here goes,

Did anyone find the "Golden Rivet"????????????;;););)

Robert McDougall
12-07-2008, 11:07
There was a cartoon over the bar at the Wellington branch of the ex Royal Navy association. A couple is at the ships side talking to each other, in the background a sailor is following a lady through a door. The couple say to each other, "how nice of that sailor to take our Jenny and show her the golden rivet".

ceylon220
12-07-2008, 15:57
Nice one Robert, it seems that every ship has some one eager to show the Golden Rivet to some unexpectant "sprog".

kw250f
17-07-2008, 15:14
HMS Diamond was used by new Sultan MEM recruits for harbour training ship purposes in 1977, as part of the training we had to locate various valves dials gauges and components in the boiler and engine room. Along side was a HMS Blackwood which had the boiler working. As a Junior I was on the Rhyl working on the stbd boiler when the pome signalled to remove a sprayer, not knowing we only had one on, subsequently flaming out the boiler. I quickly had to remove a sprayer, insert the lighter and fired it up, it lit with a huge bang. I fired up two sprayers and away we went. Pushing the sprayer in twisting on the the air levers and opening the fuel was an art. This was followed by the pome throwing a wheel spanner at me, I never put one out again. I also remember the frightening noise when the feed water pump lost suction behind the control panel in the boiler room, I was halfway up the ladder before I was called back down. The heat noise and power is unbeleivable.

tim lewin
17-07-2008, 17:05
thanks KW, it is just these sort of memories that are of great importance now that steam is rapidly becoming (has become) a lost art. Anyone can read the manual but how it really was in a different story, and fortunately we still have access to peole like you who can tell it!
good stuff, lets hear more.
thanks
tim

NSR
17-07-2008, 17:39
kw's reminiscences has got me going again, I know how he feels. My first watch in a boiler room was in the Valiant (HMS Imperieuse) which had one boiler lit for harbour service. I took over the afternoon watch and the morning watch stoker told me that we had three sprayers on and they needed changing about every 15 minutes. So 'greenie' waits about 10 minutes and asks the stoker PO where the spanner is. Luckily he was a humane man and explained in simple terms that they were only removed once a day for stripping and cleaning and that changing meant swapping over from one in use to another to allow the carbon build-up to be cleaned from the firebrick surrounding the sprayer. He also showed me the trick of shutting the air slide briefly to ensure that the flame was temporaily starved. This caused it to burn back towards the sprayer head and establish a stable primary flame and, hence, a steady main flame.

In return for receiving this knowledge I was rewarded with a handful of cotton waste, a bucket with about 3 inches of diesel and cleaned the boiler floor plates, this was followed by a burnisher to polish the handrails. And no Marigold gloves either.

Ken

Chris Howat
18-07-2008, 20:58
Talking of memories, in HMS Starling, when cruising at night, for reasons of economy, we would turn off all main steam from the HP and LP turbines and connect the exhaust steam from one steam turbo generator onto the LP turbines. It gave us about 8 knots but a very slow response to an emergency!
Talk about something for nothing!
I got my Engine Romm watchkeeping Certificate in Starling.

tjstoneman
23-07-2008, 20:53
To get back to the original topic, there's an interesting description of the EXETER's last battle, as seen from the Engineer Officer's viewpoint, at http://www.jneweb.com/EntityFiles/8/255/POESPaperFileName/v7b21p06.pdf.
It was written after his return from captivity.
Tim

Kevin Denlay
31-07-2008, 15:05
Tim,

First, what a GREAT find! I have not seen this before. Do you know what book (or what web site) it comes from?

Second, THANKS for some input that’s a bit more to do with my original post.:)

Third, wish I had seen this earlier but seems I went off-line the day you posted it and only just got back on and saw it today. You see, I just spent the last five days with four of HMS Exeter’s survivors, with several of those days spent on board HMS Kent out over the wreck of Exeter for a wreath laying and memorial ceremony/service. And as it turned out two of those survivors were A boiler room stokers (while one the two others was from A turret itself and one from the A turret shell room below).

More info and a couple of pics can be seen at:
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.13429

One of the images on above site is an ‘aerial’ of the ceremony on the flight deck, and the other is of two of the vets seated, Joe Asher on the left (A turret shell room) and George Gaskell on right (A boiler room). When I get a chance, as I just got home today, I will post a few more photos here of the vets on board, etc, should anyone be interested.

Also, as HMS Kent left from Surabaya and returned us to Jakarta, I/we also got a chance to visit the Dutch War Graves Cemetery in Surabaya - where Exeter’s 14 dead from the B of JS on 27th were originally buried - and the combined Dutch and Allied War Graves Cemetery in Jakarta - where the 14 Exeter graves were moved to (some time in the 60’s I was told). Both places are indeed a somber scene, with white crosses and/or small headstones stretching off in every direction. But I am very happy to say that, somewhat to my surprise, both places are immaculately kept and immaculately maintained, a real credit to the Indonesian groundsmen!

As it transpired three of the vets came out from the UK and one came up from Australia. A BBC film crew accompanied two of the UK vets and a doco is intended to be aired in the UK the week prior to Remembrance Day.

Regards,
Kevin

tjstoneman
31-07-2008, 16:15
Kevin,

The description is from a series of Royal Navy publications called “Papers on Engineering Subjects”. Unclassified articles from these are online, accessible through the Journal of Naval Engineering homepage at http://www.jneweb.com/

Tim

kw250f
30-03-2009, 09:28
For me and all ex stokers / Mem's, does anyone have any pictures of life in the boiler and engine rooms of RN ships in the 60's and 70's. These were hot noisey and dangerous places operated by great characters.

oldsalt
30-03-2009, 17:55
I found this one of the engine room control platform, I'm not sure which ship but looking at the size of the manoeuvring valves it must have a large ship, probably an aircraft carrier. The picture from my experience seems to show the Engineer Officer trying main engines before reporting their readiness to the bridge. The EO appears to have opened & shut the ahead valve while the ERA stands by to open the astern valve to bring the engine to stop. There is available a DVD of a series of training films, one of which shows the flashing up from cold of a destroyers boilers, available from Maritime Books in Liskeard Cornwall.

ivorthediver
30-03-2009, 18:13
Thanks Keith ,

Do you have a website or address that I can have please......as I would like to get them for my Stokers to view


Kind Regards

NSR
30-03-2009, 18:23
I am not sure who took them but the following are a bit earlier (1950) of the forward machinery space, HMS Triumph. The Colossus class were a bit different as the boilers and engine were in the same compartment. The forward space housed the starboard main engine with the two boilers to port. The after machinery space housed the port main engine with the boilers to starboard with the starboard propellor shaft running just behind them. From memory, the starboard shaft sat in 11 plummer blocks and the port only required 7 to reach the stern glands. The shafts and propellors were at slightly different angles to accommodate this and at high speed it caused a bit of vibration down aft.

My job for most of the commission was throttle watchkeeper on the starboard engine so the last two photos are very familiar to me. We were entering harbour when there was an order for the port engine and I turned to look at the repeater and missed an order for the starboard engine. The 'tiffie gave me a nudge and I hurriedly replied and carried out the order. A minute later Commander (E)'s face appeared at my shoulder with the words,' If you don't wake up, I'll thump you'. And knowing him he would have, but I still think he was great bloke.

I remember the PO in the boiler photo but regret that I cannot remember his name.

Ken

oldsalt
30-03-2009, 19:27
ardships , you don't know you were born!

Ardships, I'll give you ardships!

This is hard ships!:eek::eek:

Ardships, I'll give you ardships!

This is the engine room of a capital ship, which battleship I don't know.

ivorthediver
30-03-2009, 20:36
Spoken like a Stoker .....well done Oldsalt.....

harry.gibbon
30-03-2009, 22:04
Thank you Stokers and others.... from a mere pale faced sparker...

Memories of going down thru the airlock (having phoned thru first of course) into the boiler room a time or two on Battle Class to burn the confidential waste..

Kept a good dhoby drying spec by keeping on right side of the boiler room guys.

When we went to the first Kuwait crisis from the Med it was purgatory for you and thank goodness for limers.

Little h

oldsalt
31-03-2009, 18:12
Thanks Keith ,

Do you have a website or address that I can have please......as I would like to get them for my Stokers to view


Kind Regards

Ivor, there are some really good DVD's of naval instructional films, wartime & peace. They are obtainable from Maritime Books, they have a web site. Most of my photo's come from some of the dozens of books accumulated over several years. My engineering experiences were mostly in ships built during the war, or laid down then & completed after the war. The only "new" ship I had was the survey ship Hecla. The early days were in ships which had Unreliable boiler feed water regulators to maintain boiler water levels,which meant operating feed checks by hand, a bit hair raising when manoeuvering.
It was a great day when one recieved the boiler room watchkeeping certificate, the final test for which was taking charge during a full power trial. Before the advent of chemical treatment of boiler feed water, the boilers were cleaned by removing all the internal gear from the boiler & cleaning every tube internally with a wire brush on the end of a flexible , motor driven cable. External cleaning was done using a saw like implement , about 3ft long & 8" wide, the idea was to saw between all the tubes & then using a type of wire brush to finally clean. When I joined Vanguard , one of the first jobs was boiler cleaning, starting at the top of the funnel, standing on painting stages using long handled stiff bristle brooms, it was high up, no safety gear I can remember. I could go on for ages, but , do I hear Muttered " not again Uncle Albert" , so I will Stop, cease even.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::eek:

ivorthediver
31-03-2009, 20:05
Good Evening Keith,

As always your posts are music to my ears and the insight you portray
of life in the Engineering spaces is always welcome.

I know you sometimes sit in the background smouldering and every now and then ignite.....but I admire the way you put the deck strollers in their rightful place...and blow the smoke out of the empty vessels who cross your path..

power to your elbow....I my not be from the same coal seam as you......... but I to have the same flammable disposition........ when the need arises

Warm Regards Ivor

oldsalt
31-03-2009, 20:47
Thanks for the compliment Ivor, this forum is my contact with the past, in many ways better than the future.I can rabbit on in this forum, the wife, grandchildren 7 daughter are always telling me to stop talking Navy..... but I can't.

ivorthediver
01-04-2009, 05:09
Please don't Keith,

Your welcome, and keep your boiler fired shipmate.......

Stan.J
01-04-2009, 16:31
Can you old salts remember Boiler cleaning....then an E.R.A. climbing into the top steam drum and a poor old stoker in the bottom drum(usually still quite warm). The E.R.A. then proceeded to drop stainless steel balls from a box of 100 down each tube in order. The Stoker below had to catch them in a bag..If he ended up with 100 in the bag then no tubes were blocked. Pity the Stoker if he missed one. Because they were hard and if they hit you?????....

ivorthediver
01-04-2009, 17:26
Can you old salts remember Boiler cleaning....then an E.R.A. climbing into the top steam drum and a poor old stoker in the bottom drum(usually still quite warm). The E.R.A. then proceeded to drop stainless steel balls from a box of 100 down each tube in order. The Stoker below had to catch them in a bag..If he ended up with 100 in the bag then no tubes were blocked. Pity the Stoker if he missed one. Because they were hard and if they hit you?????....

Sounds like a load of dirty old balls to me...

Thanks for that Stan, but no I have not had that pleasure and I am glad I missed out [if you will excuse the pun] how long did the boilers get to cool down.....don't get me wrong a sauna is one of the few pleasures left in life........ can you pass me a tissue please....... but the thought of waiting for those to knock you senseless ......is not my idea of fun.

When was this ritual carried out and how often?

NSR
01-04-2009, 18:04
Did my first internal on the Renown as part of stoker training. She had been handed over to the Chinese navy and I shared a bottom drum with a Chinese stoker. We were belling the tube ends after they had been searched with the motor driven flexible drive brush. Lying on your back and forcing the heavy drill with the belling brush against against the tube end above your head was agony. We managed about two dozen a time before we had to hand over to the other and rest our arms. The dust from the rust penetrated the cloths over our mouths and cigarettes had a funny sweet taste.

At the end the boiler would be closed up with the top drum door left open and filled to just below the lip. Two buckets of limewash were thrown in to provide a crude feed water treatment, the door closed and filling completed. This cleaning took place every 750 steaming hours. When the Admiralty introduced boiler compound this period was extended to 2500 steaming hours and the internals were much easier to clean as rust was almost eliminated.

External cleaning was relatively easier physically (Note, relatively) but far dirtier. The rig was bottom of the overall legs and the sleeve ends tied up with spunyard to minimise soot penetration. Head and face protected by a sort of balaclava made from rag waste with eye slits and secured to the overall top. On one external clean, some of the best were made from a pale blue cloth that we found in the rag bundles. It was only much later when we were using some more to clean the boiler room plates that we discovered that the material came from ex-WAAF knickers, hopefully surplus unused. Ex-stokers can imagine the comments.

Sheerness was one of the best places for external cleaning. The shore bathroom had big butler sinks so the procedure was to strip off and scrub the overalls and underwear clean (usually referred to as a soapy frolic). The bathroom had some of the earliest hydros (commercial spin driers) so the clothes could be put into the heated drying racks and by the time you had showered and got rid of the last traces of soot the clean clothes were ready to put on again to go back to the ship.

Ken

ivorthediver
01-04-2009, 18:19
Thank you very much NSR,

Very helpful and interesting to me , as its only from kind souls like you that this kind of information can be gleaned , and quantified and gives an overall view of the fascinating life that Stokers and Engineers had to endure as it was the norm than

Can you imagine what current health and safety "Experts" would make of that lot on a commercial footing now days... it would not get done I think.....

Regards Ivor

gunnersmate
01-04-2009, 19:26
Greeting's shipmates,
Reading all what you stokers have posted, anyone would think you had the thin end of the wedge?
Seriously though, I don't think I could have done some of those jobs.
Glad I was a seaman, all that fresh air and sun.

Baz.

ivorthediver
01-04-2009, 19:46
Greeting's shipmates,
Reading all what you stokers have posted, anyone would think you had the thin end of the wedge?
Seriously though, I don't think I could have done some of those jobs.
Glad I was a seaman, all that fresh air and sun.

Baz.

B....y Deck Strollers or as OLDSALT might say "don't know the meaning of ardship"

kw250f
02-04-2009, 15:18
Boiler cleaning was a major chore, As a 17 year old scrubbing and scraping away in the steam drum wasn't an ideal way to enjoy the Navy. I remember bullet brushes being used to clear out the boiler tubes, If the tubes were found to be rusted through the dockies would cut and weld them.
As a Junior I was on the Rhyl working on the stbd boiler when the pome signalled to remove a sprayer, not knowing we only had one on, subsequently flaming out the boiler. I quickly had to remove a sprayer, insert the lighter and fired it up, it lit with a huge bang. I fired up two sprayers and away we went. Pushing the sprayer in twisting on the the air levers and opening the fuel was an art. This was followed by the pome throwing a wheel spanner at me, I never put one out again. I also remember the frightening noise when the feed water pump lost suction behind the control panel in the boiler room, I was halfway up the ladder before I was called back down. The heat noise and power is unbeleivable. On my first day on board the boilers were flashed and i was terrified as i crawled on top of the boiler to open the main stop superheat steam valve with my wheel spanner, "Propper power"

ivorthediver
02-04-2009, 17:32
Boiler cleaning was a major chore, As a 17 year old scrubbing and scraping away in the steam drum wasn't an ideal way to enjoy the Navy. I remember bullet brushes being used to clear out the boiler tubes, If the tubes were found to be rusted through the dockies would cut and weld them.
As a Junior I was on the Rhyl working on the stbd boiler when the pome signalled to remove a sprayer, not knowing we only had one on, subsequently flaming out the boiler. I quickly had to remove a sprayer, insert the lighter and fired it up, it lit with a huge bang. I fired up two sprayers and away we went. Pushing the sprayer in twisting on the the air levers and opening the fuel was an art. This was followed by the pome throwing a wheel spanner at me, I never put one out again. I also remember the frightening noise when the feed water pump lost suction behind the control panel in the boiler room, I was halfway up the ladder before I was called back down. The heat noise and power is unbeleivable. On my first day on board the boilers were flashed and i was terrified as i crawled on top of the boiler to open the main stop superheat steam valve with my wheel spanner, "Propper power"

Thanks for that...........sounds like you were lucky to finish your service career in one piece

oldsalt
02-04-2009, 18:29
All these early engineering experiences, plus naval training, in my case as a Mechanician then in due course promotion. When I left the RN in 72, I had been an Engineer Officer for 9 yrs. Casting around for a new job eventually led me to the Merchant Navy, Mobil Oil was the company. I joined as a 2nd. Engineer. Much to my amazment , when I arrived on my first crude oil tanker 100,000 tons I found I was to be a one man band in charge of not only engineering maintenance but electrical also. I had to get reaquainted with the tool box again. I don't mean any offence to any MN who may read this, but I was dismayed to find that they had very little experience of maintenance. I think because of my background I was asked to take charge of a repair team of four Indian fitters, our job was to do onboard repairs to save on shipyard costs. Some of Mobil tankers had German Officers, there are probably thousands of brilliant German engineers, they certainly was'nt any in the MN. I stayed in the MN having various jobs until my deafness reached a point when , I was told your sea going days are finished, I can't complain , I was treated very well by Mobil. It may have been hot & mucky in the ER dept but I enjoyed the feeling of a job well done. I did'nt join up until 49 so I had no experience of warfare other than Korea, but I have always wondered how I would have conducted myself down below in action knowing at any moment you could be blown up, burnt by fuel or cooked by steam or drowned. I think in those circumstances I may have been willing to swop a boiler room for a gun mounting.

NSR
02-04-2009, 18:56
Hi Baz,

In the Denmark Strait in winter the air was very (expletive deleted) fresh and there wasn't much sun. I loved bring down in a warm engine room while the dabtoes were chopping ice off the guard rails. Puts things into prespective.

Ken

ivorthediver
02-04-2009, 19:37
All these early engineering experiences, plus naval training, in my case as a Mechanician then in due course promotion. When I left the RN in 72, I had been an Engineer Officer for 9 yrs. Casting around for a new job eventually led me to the Merchant Navy, Mobil Oil was the company. I joined as a 2nd. Engineer. Much to my amazment , when I arrived on my first crude oil tanker 100,000 tons I found I was to be a one man band in charge of not only engineering maintenance but electrical also. I had to get reaquainted with the tool box again. I don't mean any offence to any MN who may read this, but I was dismayed to find that they had very little experience of maintenance. I think because of my background I was asked to take charge of a repair team of four Indian fitters, our job was to do onboard repairs to save on shipyard costs. Some of Mobil tankers had German Officers, there are probably thousands of brilliant German engineers, they certainly was'nt any in the MN. I stayed in the MN having various jobs until my deafness reached a point when , I was told your sea going days are finished, I can't complain , I was treated very well by Mobil. It may have been hot & mucky in the ER dept but I enjoyed the feeling of a job well done. I did'nt join up until 49 so I had no experience of warfare other than Korea, but I have always wondered how I would have conducted myself down below in action knowing at any moment you could be blown up, burnt by fuel or cooked by steam or drowned. I think in those circumstances I may have been willing to swop a boiler room for a gun mounting.
From what I have gleaned of you keith you would have been a stickler for correct procedures which would have been forged into your stokers, and been a bloody good crew.............

ivorthediver
02-04-2009, 19:42
Hi Baz,

In the Denmark Strait in winter the air was very (expletive deleted) fresh and there wasn't much sun. I loved bring down in a warm engine room while the dabtoes were chopping ice off the guard rails. Puts things into prespective.

Ken
Spoken like a good Stoker ....Keith would be proud of you mate

For the sake of correctness... would a dabtoe... be a Deck stroller ?

qprdave
02-04-2009, 20:52
"dabtoes were chopping ice off the guard rails"

See Ivor. Another way that the seamen were making sure that the stokers were kept nice and warm and safe

Replace dabtoe for the Goodlooking, smart, generous, part of the ship's company (or Elite for short)

Macadian
02-04-2009, 22:48
"dabtoes were chopping ice off the guard rails"

See Ivor. Another way that the seamen were making sure that the stokers were kept nice and warm and safe

Replace dabtoe for the Goodlooking, smart, generous, part of the ship's company (or Elite for short)
As in 'scaby abbs?

Would have been involved in this thread earlier but have been getting all warm and sweaty in Florida for the past few weeks....:)

ivorthediver
03-04-2009, 04:53
As in 'scaby abbs?

Would have been involved in this thread earlier but have been getting all warm and sweaty in Florida for the past few weeks....:)

Hi there shipmate where have you been, glad your back to help us keep the deck strollers in check !;)

Hope you are well and in good spirits.....if not join us for a tot....and we will sort them out.....

ivorthediver
03-04-2009, 05:09
"dabtoes were chopping ice off the guard rails"

See Ivor. Another way that the seamen were making sure that the stokers were kept nice and warm and safe

Replace dabtoe for the Goodlooking, smart, generous, part of the ship's company (or Elite for short)


Oh I See....... Elite is it...now let me see what did baz say I had to do ...Ah

E Egocentric
L Layabouts
I Intending
T Thoughtless
E Employment.....

Yes that sounds about right.....by the way dave you missed some ice on the anchor chains....would you like to borrow OUR steam lance..?

Hencore
03-04-2009, 09:23
Hey guys,

My great grandfather was a Stoker in the RN between 1923 and 45. I’ve been trying to find out as much as I can about what he would be doing as a stoker however there seems to be very little.
I’ve read Sir Louis Le Bailey’s book “The man around the engine” which gave me some good bits but I need more. Does anyone else know of any published information regarding the lives of stokers?
As a stoker is he always going to be in the boiler rooms or could he work in the engine rooms?

As a chief stoker onboard HMS KGV what sort of role would he have? How many Chiefs would be onboard?

Same question again but he was also a Chief Stoker on a frigate.

I’ve been down to the engine room in HMS Belfast and found it very claustrophobic and can only imagine at the heat and noise stokers had to work in.

I’d love to see more pictures and stories

Phil

kw250f
03-04-2009, 10:51
During my time in the 70,s we started life watchkeeping on boilers, operating manually the registers, the more steam required the more sprayers went on then reduced accordingly, the Pome would signal by hand whilst watching steam pressure and temp at the same time adjusting the forced draught blowers. The killick would be checking the evaporators for feed water salinity.
The engine room would be operating the throttles for the turbines as well as looking after the turbo generators, All done in extreme conditions wearing thick cotton overalls and steaming boots, It was made more exciting in roughers. Both rooms would be in constant contact by the cheif stoker/ E officer in the office above. This was all whilst on watch but we also had parts of ship to run ie deisel gen sets fwd, motor boat engines, refrigeration leaks etc.

qprdave
03-04-2009, 12:58
would you like to borrow OUR steam lance..?

Where would you want me to shove your steam lance, Ivor??????

NSR
03-04-2009, 16:37
Short glossary, Dabtoe = Seaman, Dustman = Stoker. Hence the chorus of that ditty regarding egg on fried bread which ran:

Chicken on a raft on a Monday morning,
Oh, what an 'orrible sight to see,
The dabtoe forrard and the dustman aft,
Both of them cursing the chicken on a raft.

I believe it was written by a Fleet Air Arm PO at Lossiemouth but it is many a long year since I heard it and that is about all I can remember.

Of course, the boot was on the other foot in the tropics. We quickly learnt to go on watch in overalls but without underwear. With a temperature of 110 deg on the throttle platform, (and even worst by the evaporators) sweat would literally pour down and collect at the waistband of a pair of pants. The result would be a bright red salt rash that itched like mad. Spent as much time as possible standing under the fan outlet with my overall top opened to the breeze. With the air exiting from the bottom of my overall legs I looked like an advert for Michelin tyres.

There were also chocolate coated salt tablets that looked liked M and Ms which you swallowed whole. If you bit one by accident the taste was foul. Fluid was replaced with water laced with oatmeal which was much more bearable. At the end of the watch overalls would have white patches where the salt from the sweat had dried. The routine was to step straight into the shower still wearing them and then take them off.

Swinging on the throttles was hard work but it must have been a doddle compared with firing on a coal boat. Thank goodness for oil.

Ken

ivorthediver
03-04-2009, 16:47
would you like to borrow OUR steam lance..?

Where would you want me to shove your steam lance, Ivor??????

Now look this is taking it to the extreme........... even for a deck stroller.

You shove the end of the hose into the connector supplied by the engine room, turn on the valve and you wave it over the chain where the ice is.......

Have I missed something ?:confused:

ivorthediver
03-04-2009, 17:14
Hey guys,

My great grandfather was a Stoker in the RN between 1923 and 45. I’ve been trying to find out as much as I can about what he would be doing as a stoker however there seems to be very little.
I’ve read Sir Louis Le Bailey’s book “The man around the engine” which gave me some good bits but I need more. Does anyone else know of any published information regarding the lives of stokers?
As a stoker is he always going to be in the boiler rooms or could he work in the engine rooms?

As a chief stoker onboard HMS KGV what sort of role would he have? How many Chiefs would be onboard?

Same question again but he was also a Chief Stoker on a frigate.

I’ve been down to the engine room in HMS Belfast and found it very claustrophobic and can only imagine at the heat and noise stokers had to work in.

I’d love to see more pictures and stories

Phil
Welcome Shipmate haven't noticed you up till now ...sorry!

You need to speak to the Honourable and muched praised member known as oldsalt.

He is a fountain of knowledge and the odd picture regarding Stokers and there life on board Her Majesties Ships
There have been a few threads relating to Stokers and there lot, so may I ask you to go to the top of this page and go into "SEARCH THIS THREAD" and enter in "Stokers" or "Engine room" and see what turns up if not send a personnel message to our Forum Moderators and ask for there help to find what you are looking for

There are many "real stokers" on this Forum who I am sure would be very helpful to you as indeed they have been to me
if all that fails as I am sure it will not come back and I will ferret around and find someone
Hope that helps you.........

Try also the thread "Poems and words of Naval Men" as there are no end of stories there relating to Stokers......... and what a grand job they do

qprdave
03-04-2009, 18:19
Sorry Ivor.

I'ts my overreactive Dabtoe mind.

I thought that you that you were talking about sticking the steam lance up a part of my anatomy.!!!!!!!!!!

oldsalt
03-04-2009, 18:22
Thanks for the intro Ivor, here goes, Stokers were the engine room equivalent of Able Seamen, they carried out watchkeeping duties in the ER dept, depending on their qualifications they would have different duties. An, shall we say ordinary stoker, would operate the boiler fuel sprayers under the direction of the Stoker Petty Officer of the watch, they would also stand watches in the engine room, recording temperatures & pressures etc in the ER log. These Stokers would also keep the spaces they worked in clean. When a Stoker was awarded, after being tested, a Auxiliary Machinery Certificate, he was put in charge of generators steam & diesel, evaporators producing water for boilers & domestic use. Depending on the type of ship they would have other responsibilities. It may not be generally known that in aircraft carriers the catapults, arrester wires & crash barriers were also the resposibility of the ER dept. Of course there were dayworkers that carried out many tasks. The Chief Stokers in large ships were responsible for various sections of the dept, eg a large ship with say four units ( four boiler rooms, four engine/gearing rooms & auxiliaries) would have a Chief Stoker in charge of the Petty Officers, Leading Rates & Stokers in one unit. In smaller ships, destroyers etc. there would be one Chief Stoker, he would regulate all the Stoker Senior & Junior ratings.I have only briefly outlined the branch as it was, today's organisation is a mistery to me. I will stop & give someone else a chance, after this my knuckles are as painful as h..l.

ivorthediver
03-04-2009, 18:44
Many thanks OLDSALT for taking the time to help us....sorry about your hands hurting I will get a stoker to pop round with a tot of the neat stuff to ease the pain.

ivorthediver
03-04-2009, 18:51
Short glossary, Dabtoe = Seaman, Dustman = Stoker. Hence the chorus of that ditty regarding egg on fried bread which ran:

Chicken on a raft on a Monday morning,
Oh, what an 'orrible sight to see,
The dabtoe forrard and the dustman aft,
Both of them cursing the chicken on a raft.

I believe it was written by a Fleet Air Arm PO at Lossiemouth but it is many a long year since I heard it and that is about all I can remember.

Of course, the boot was on the other foot in the tropics. We quickly learnt to go on watch in overalls but without underwear. With a temperature of 110 deg on the throttle platform, (and even worst by the evaporators) sweat would literally pour down and collect at the waistband of a pair of pants. The result would be a bright red salt rash that itched like mad. Spent as much time as possible standing under the fan outlet with my overall top opened to the breeze. With the air exiting from the bottom of my overall legs I looked like an advert for Michelin tyres.

There were also chocolate coated salt tablets that looked liked M and Ms which you swallowed whole. If you bit one by accident the taste was foul. Fluid was replaced with water laced with oatmeal which was much more bearable. At the end of the watch overalls would have white patches where the salt from the sweat had dried. The routine was to step straight into the shower still wearing them and then take them off.

Swinging on the throttles was hard work but it must have been a doddle compared with firing on a coal boat. Thank goodness for oil.

Ken
Thanks Ken you are a star ......wish there were more posts like yours to outline what life was like then..... its great to hear it first hand from people like you.
Regards Ivor

oldsalt
03-04-2009, 19:00
I have tried to reproduce my watchkeeping certificates, I'm afraid they are a bit battered. I am not responsible for misspelling Vanguard, it was the Engineers Office writer. Hope they come through alright.

ivorthediver
03-04-2009, 19:13
Sorry Ivor.

I'ts my overreactive Dabtoe mind.

I thought that you that you were talking about sticking the steam lance up a part of my anatomy.!!!!!!!!!!

No offence taken Dave....look forward to the banter and what comes out of it that we would never normally here.... as most of the topics posted are specific....... and the umbilical cord [Crew] get sanitised out......and to some people like our new friend "Hencore" is left wondering like.. me "BUT HOW DID IT ALL WORK!!!!!!!!"

You are part of the crew mate like me so Today I get it in the neck.....
then you then both of us ....but are we bothered
Don't worry about your mind its quite healthy and normal.... Did I say that about a Deck Stroller ??????

Vegaskip
03-04-2009, 20:00
I can smell the hot oil and steam, you paint a great word picture of a Stokers life.
I had a little taster my self.1957 I was a cabin boy on a coal burning coaster called LONDON MERCHANT. We sailed between Leith and London, and I used to do trimming in the stokehold to get overtime.I also done a little bit of stoking as well, but got chased as I was'nt fast enough, there's alot more to stoking than shoveling coal.

ivorthediver
03-04-2009, 20:13
I can smell the hot oil and steam, you paint a great word picture of a Stokers life.
I had a little taster my self.1957 I was a cabin boy on a coal burning coaster called LONDON MERCHANT. We sailed between Leith and London, and I used to do trimming in the stokehold to get overtime.I also done a little bit of stoking as well, but got chased as I was'nt fast enough, there's alot more to stoking than shoveling coal.
Thank you very much......... I seem to be very lucky tonight judging by the response to a call for help from Hencore I have already said my bit in earlier threads but you guys bring this Forum to life and prove to others searching for information just what a gold mine this place is for research on ships AND CREW
who kept those steel workhouses afloat...

Well done shipmate

ivorthediver
03-04-2009, 20:16
I have tried to reproduce my watchkeeping certificates, I'm afraid they are a bit battered. I am not responsible for misspelling Vanguard, it was the Engineers Office writer. Hope they come through alright.
Your a Gent , now go and ease up you have been a great asset tonight and give this site backbone well done......tots on its way...

stokes49er
03-04-2009, 21:55
Coming off watch from down below somewhere in the middle of the Med. just as 'Hands to bathe' was piped..Heaven.

NSR
04-04-2009, 11:18
In Portland, used to run out along the boom on the Howe and then down the Jacob's ladder to pick up the motor cutter when I was boat driver. Wave to the tourists in the paddler from Weymouth. Shows how daft you can be when you are young as I can't swim.

Ken

ivorthediver
04-04-2009, 13:25
In Portland, used to run out along the boom on the Howe and then down the Jacob's ladder to pick up the motor cutter when I was boat driver. Wave to the tourists in the paddler from Weymouth. Shows how daft you can be when you are young as I can't swim.

Ken

Well ken ....if nothing else that deserves a Service Gallantry Medal ...and for waving at all those unattractive females which were on the paddler you should get the C.D.M. and bar[mines a tot]

If you would like to learn to swim I understand that slack Alice TT38.22.28
[I think that's her service number]is running an inter-mediary course at the public baths.....if your interested.

Always happy to help a Stoker and a "few" others

ivorthediver
04-04-2009, 13:32
Coming off watch from down below somewhere in the middle of the Med. just as 'Hands to bathe' was piped..Heaven.


Nothing personal ..,as your a Stoker, but your not blonde are you? ...as I just noticed where you live......

Sorry mistook you for Stokes49er

TCC
05-04-2009, 13:00
This is hard ships!:eek::eek:

I have a 2nd image to this... its roughly the same camera position... a bit fore tho... and there's a yound lad pulling a rectangular bath of coal up tht passage and to the nearest boiler. Some of the guys are the same.

The caption doesn't name a ship but states

"The filth and grime of a coal-fired boiler room. The lion class had 42 boilers; when steaming at maximum speed, the stokers faced a herculean task of keeping the boilers fed with coal"

IWM Q18594

Quote: "Head and face protected by a sort of balaclava made from rag waste with eye slits and secured to the overall top. On one external clean, some of the best were made from a pale blue cloth that we found in the rag bundles. It was only much later when we were using some more to clean the boiler room plates that we discovered that the material came from ex-WAAF knickers, hopefully surplus unused."

Jeez.. just how big where these knickers? :-)

ivorthediver
05-04-2009, 14:39
I have a 2nd image to this... its roughly the same camera position... a bit fore tho... and there's a yound lad pulling a rectangular bath of coal up tht passage and to the nearest boiler. Some of the guys are the same.

The caption doesn't name a ship but states

"The filth and grime of a coal-fired boiler room. The lion class had 42 boilers; when steaming at maximum speed, the stokers faced a herculean task of keeping the boilers fed with coal"

IWM Q18594

Quote: "Head and face protected by a sort of balaclava made from rag waste with eye slits and secured to the overall top. On one external clean, some of the best were made from a pale blue cloth that we found in the rag bundles. It was only much later when we were using some more to clean the boiler room plates that we discovered that the material came from ex-WAAF knickers, hopefully surplus unused."

Jeez.. just how big where these knickers? :-)

Are you implying that Stokers have got small heads or WAFF's have got large waistbands.

I must find out who supplies such rag waste. as my stokers would like to use them I'm quite sure.........;)

Hencore
06-04-2009, 09:45
Thank you Ivor and Oldsalt.

As I mentioned my great grandfather did 22 years in the RN and although theres plenty on your average seamen the below decks life seems a lot harder to penetrate.

I have his service record but it would be great to find out what he was doing on a daily basis.

More pictures of engine spaces boiler rooms would be great.

TCC
06-04-2009, 15:37
Are you implying that Stokers have got small heads or WAFF's have got large waistbands.


Evidently, it's a measure to foil any fumbler, confuse the over-confident, interupt the intruder and introduce delay where speed, manouvre and courage are required!

The Naval Knicker.. protects a women when law or nature can't. :-)

ivorthediver
06-04-2009, 17:22
Evidently, it's a measure to foil any fumbler, confuse the over-confident, interupt the intruder and introduce delay where speed, manouvre and courage are required!

The Naval Knicker.. protects a women when law or nature can't. :-)

Are you an authority on Knickers TCC .?......perhaps you would like to expand this Knowledge to the less fortunate amongst us ???:confused:

NSR
07-04-2009, 17:29
[Jeez.. just how big where these knickers? ]

I believe that they were standard issue but you might be confusing them with more modern designs that are small and flimsier. These were the full strength passion killers, elasticated at the waists and just above the knee. I believe the technical term was 'Directoire Knickers' and they were originally introduced at Versailles due to the draught in the palace. Where did I get all this information? I used to help my Mum with the laundry back in the dark ages.

But back to the topic, in boiler rooms we were issued with a small bundle of rags and a small bundle of cotton waste. The rags were best for polishing brightwork and the cotton waste for cleaning the deck plates with a drop of diesel fuel. Steel handrails were polished with emery cloth to get a nice shine. First longways to get them clean, then crossways with a narrow strip to get the banded finish beloved by the PO on watch.

Ken

ivorthediver
07-04-2009, 18:54
Thank's Ken,for your priceless input

This is what fascinates me about this Forum....the little bits that seep out with each posting, that the navy is blind to because it happens all the time and is common place BUT NOT TO THOSE WHO WERE DENIED THE PRIVILEGE
of being in the Navy....

I am certain that most of the Forum readers who look at ALL the new postings like it as well, and the odd Navy man smiles when a memory is caressed ,

Thank you lads for your facts that I am looking to learn more about , but those few of you who remember the fads and dislikes of the human beings who were their seniors in the service are equally welcome

Kind regards Ivor

oldsalt
08-04-2009, 18:18
Thats nice Ivor, thanks.

ivorthediver
08-04-2009, 18:31
Thats nice Ivor, thanks.


You especially........ are very welcome my friend

gunnersmate
08-04-2009, 19:59
Hello shipmates,

It would appear that you are all getting your knickers in a twist.

Baz. :confused: :confused:

ivorthediver
08-04-2009, 20:16
Hello shipmates,

It would appear that you are all getting your knickers in a twist.

Baz. :confused: :confused:


Your public awaits you my friend .........

ivorthediver
10-07-2009, 18:31
Working on the assumption that everything is new , run in according to the manufacturers recommendations ,lubricated with the correct oils etc what type of hours logged could you reasonably predict a ships propulsion system might return in say a Destroyer or Frigate of post war type

I fully appreciate that the "System" is made up of many differing parts ..all of which have a finite life but whilst costing out the predicted life of our example some yard stick must have been used to determine if the project was a viable one to buy run and maintain ....or am I being naive :confused:

qprdave
10-07-2009, 18:55
Wow, Ivor........ That is a tall order for anyone. As you well know I had the privilege of being a non-stoker. This is how I see it.If we use a car as an example. Say a Model T Ford. Provided that it is well maintained, and not abused and the parts are changed when required, there is no reason why it can't be driven now and in the future.

Some times, possibly many times, it is economical. If Diesel fuel is cheaper than FFO then over a period of time the FFO ships will disappear. As with Coal/Oil. Also manpower has a role in the decision. It must have required more men to run a coal fuelled ship against an Oil fuelled ship. Less men then it is cheaper to run. Also look at the amount of men required for sailing ships against coal fueled ships

ivorthediver
10-07-2009, 19:35
Wow, Ivor........ That is a tall order for anyone. As you well know I had the privilege of being a non-stoker. This is how I see it.If we use a car as an example. Say a Model T Ford. Provided that it is well maintained, and not abused and the parts are changed when required, there is no reason why it can't be driven now and in the future.

Some times, possibly many times, it is economical. If Diesel fuel is cheaper than FFO then over a period of time the FFO ships will disappear. As with Coal/Oil. Also manpower has a role in the decision. It must have required more men to run a coal fuelled ship against an Oil fuelled ship. Less men then it is cheaper to run. Also look at the amount of men required for sailing ships against coal fueled ships

Yes well as I said in the Wardroom I am not responsible for you choosing the wrong Trade matey....we can't just switch it off and slam the lid down and say its u/s we need to be prepared to overcome a problem where possible

OK if we work on your assumption of " no reason why it can't be driven now and in the future"......unlike the example you offered if we break down we can't very well phone up the "Green Flag "to tow us back ....so expanding on your theory what spares would be deemed critical to avoid a break down and to what extent could the Engineering trades repair a fault at Sea
and what provision was made for such an eventuality :confused:

qprdave
10-07-2009, 19:52
If you had said at the beginning that no spare parts would be made/saved. I should imagine that the ship wouldn't last that long.

As far as repairing. I should imagine that all depends on what type of ship that you are talking about. Whilst E.R.A.s are probably more than capable of making running repairs. The facilities that he has onboard may stop him from doing it. On a big ship i.e. A Carrier they will have more facilities. HMS Triumph, for example could carry out almost anything as it was fitted as a Heavy Repair ship. Unfortunately these Repair/Depot ships are no longer with us. So it is back to plan B get towed to the nearest port so that emergency repairs can be carried out then it's back to the dockyard for full repairs

Vegaskip
10-07-2009, 19:58
I was talking to my brother-in-law a couple of months back, he was a marine engineer, worked for Brown Bros who made the steam catapults , steering gear etc alot of stuff used by the RN. His final job was to oversee the refitting of the cat on Minas Gerais the Brazilian carrier ,liked it so much He now lives in Rio and is a consultant to their navy,poor chap!!.Any way we were talking about ships engineers etc and he was telling me that it is all completely different now,the engineer is virtualy just a watch keeper and any thing goes wrong , a team will fly out to the ship or it will go in to a yard, He reccons that one of the Scandinavian co's could actually run unmanned ships so I'm afraid Ivor stokers are about redundant.I think he said that you can also qualify as a deck/ engineering officer now.

Ps Iam of course referring to Merchant ships.

ivorthediver
10-07-2009, 20:00
If you had said at the beginning that no spare parts would be made/saved. I should imagine that the ship wouldn't last that long.

As far as repairing. I should imagine that all depends on what type of ship that you are talking about. Whilst E.R.A.s are probably more than capable of making running repairs. The facilities that he has onboard may stop him from doing it. On a big ship i.e. A Carrier they will have more facilities. HMS Triumph, for example could carry out almost anything as it was fitted as a Heavy Repair ship. Unfortunately these Repair/Depot ships are no longer with us. So it is back to plan B get towed to the nearest port so that emergency repairs can be carried out then it's back to the dockyard for full repairs

Was that the situation in the post war years only or is that a general solution

ivorthediver
11-07-2009, 19:25
How often does this happen now days as you rarly hear of navy ships breaking down at sea

qprdave
11-07-2009, 19:44
Well. The Nottingham is one that comes to mind

She was damaged in Australia.

Repairs, in times past, would have been carried out in Hong Kong, Singapore, Malta, Gibraltar, Simonstown. At one time it could have been done in Australia.

With the Nottingham. she was put on a raft and towed back to the UK

ivorthediver
11-07-2009, 20:04
Well. The Nottingham is one that comes to mind

She was damaged in Australia.

Repairs, in times past, would have been carried out in Hong Kong, Singapore, Malta, Gibraltar, Simonstown. At one time it could have been done in Australia.

With the Nottingham. she was put on a raft and towed back to the UK


That sounds like an accountants cockup... would it not have been cheaper to have it repaired localy

qprdave
11-07-2009, 20:12
It might have been political.

A few years ago Australia were reluctant to let warships into their ports unless they stated categorically that there were no nuclear weapons onboard. The British Government's Policy was "We don't comment on the weapons carried on our ships" This meant that on occasions Australia was tippexed out of the far east tour.

ivorthediver
11-07-2009, 20:17
It might have been political.

A few years ago Australia were reluctant to let warships into their ports unless they stated categorically that there were no nuclear weapons onboard. The British Government's Policy was "We don't comment on the weapons carried on our ships" This meant that on occasions Australia was tippexed out of the far east tour.


As you say political , costly and stupid as I am quite sure that an answer to this problem could have been found given the will

qprdave
11-07-2009, 20:27
Answer to your question, Ivor

This is what they admit to!!!!!!!!!

The salvage and six-week journey back to the UK will cost an estimated £10m to £11m.

Ref
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2348839.stm

ivorthediver
11-07-2009, 20:39
Answer to your question, Ivor

This is what they admit to!!!!!!!!!

The salvage and six-week journey back to the UK will cost an estimated £10m to £11m.

Ref
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2348839.stm


Love to see the account tendered

qprdave
04-05-2010, 17:37
Article published in The Times about Marine Engineering on 22nd January 1913

steve roberts
04-05-2010, 18:20
Hi Dave.A very interesting article.It was interesting to learn that even in those days the cost of oil was considered expensive!
Regards Steve.

John Odom
04-05-2010, 23:24
The sheer size of modern marine diesel engines is mind boggling! The present cost of labor and availability of coal vs bunker oil has reversed over time.

qprdave
07-05-2010, 15:03
The Marine Steam Engine

Published in The Times on 2nd November 1882

qprdave
07-05-2010, 15:06
Two articles about Navy Boilers

Published in The Times on:-
16th April 1895
and
1st April 1899

oldsalt
07-05-2010, 16:48
What very interesting articles, with hind sight we now know which type of boiler won.

ColinP
07-05-2010, 18:05
We hve a steam tug here that used a surplus navy triple expansion engine to power it.

SS Master's Triple Expansion Double Acting unit was built in 1916 by William Beardmore's Speedwell Iron Works Co. in Coatbridge, Scotland. It was built for the Royal Navy for installion in a First World War Minesweeper that was ordered but never completed. The diameter of the cylinders are as follows; High Pressure (HP) 9.625", Intermediate Pressure (IP) 15.5", and Low Pressure (LP) 26". The stroke is 18 inches and the indicated horsepower is 332.

On the link are good pictures and video of her engineroom and the engine.
http://www.ssmaster.org/Engine-Room.html

qprdave
08-05-2010, 00:39
I have moved this from it's own thread to here.

Thanks to my good friend, the Forum Supergolly who has, quite rightly, informed me of the cardinal sin, not doing a search before posting.

Thank you Harry for your alertness.

Dave

John Odom
08-05-2010, 01:53
That was a very interesting article. It interesting to watch as technology changes. Not always for the better, I might add!

harry.gibbon
08-05-2010, 22:40
Now what is/was this all about please .....

----------------
The 1978 refit of HMS Londonderry saw some considerable changes to this Rothesay class anti submarine frigate. She was fitted out as a trials ship for ASWE.

A third mast was fitted to carry the TYPE 1030 STIR radar, the gun was removed, a new propulsion system was fitted to check the quietness of waterjets and a CAAIS system was fitted to improve the ability to handle the amount of information being generated.

---------------

..... that is an extract of an article from the Weapons Systems Tuning Group site (already put an extract on the Rothesay Type 12 thread) see the main site and click on Ivan's page...

http://www.wstg.co.uk/new_page_5.htm

so what is it all about then? it is 30 odd years on and is anybody saying that this thread is now obsolete???????????:confused::confused:


Little h

Don Boyer
08-05-2010, 23:52
I find it fascinating that a thread on the most technical and difficult aspects of a ship's operation --all that engineering, oily stuff, high pressure steam and heat -- also includes exceptionally knowledgeable dissertations on women's knickers. Only sailors can do that, you know.

I spent 19 months on a aircraft carrier, and although I walked past the main forward access to the boiler/engine room compartments almost every day, it occurred to me that I was never in any of the engineering spaces. Of course on a big carrier, if you are not a member of the specialty in the various areas of the ship, you normally don't intrude unless on business or invited. And, being one of the "blue badges" (special weapons technicians) people tended to stay away from you anyway and you didn't get invites to tour spaces much.

Be that as it may, for those of you who truly enjoy the history of the engine room and steam power, the 1912 edition of Jane's Fighting Ships has a 31 page appendix on "The Progress of Warship Engineering" by C. de Grave Sells.
(This is "Part II" so part one must be in the 1911 edition.) Technically detailed but an easy read and with superb photos and illustrations, such as the opened low pressure turbines of HMS Lion, the engines of the SS Comet, and many others, it is fascinating stuff. It also has a detailed comparison of the engine arrangements of the Italian battleships San Giorgio (reciprocating engines) and San Marco (turbines) built to test the turbine idea in a manner that allowed for eliminating all factors except the powerplants themselves, the ships being otherwise identical.

It also discusses the early developments in trying to make diesel engines work in the naval arena and many other topics related to powering your favorite ship through the water. The fun part is this is stuff from way back when!

Hoping somebody might find this useful.
Regards,

John Odom
09-05-2010, 00:10
Nevada and Oklahoma were also a test pair in the turbine reciprocating engine debate.. The fact that Oklahoma had triple expansion reciprocating engines was a major factor in the decision to scrap her. Nevada had turbines, was far less damaged and was repaired.

harry.gibbon
09-05-2010, 19:34
Come on in Stokers and Tiffy's alike...

Re my post #70 - HMS Londonderry; what happened to the trials and checks for quietness of a waterjet propulsion system then??????

Little h

keblin
13-05-2010, 14:31
I found this one of the engine room control platform, I'm not sure which ship but looking at the size of the manoeuvring valves it must have a large ship, probably an aircraft carrier. The picture from my experience seems to show the Engineer Officer trying main engines before reporting their readiness to the bridge. The EO appears to have opened & shut the ahead valve while the ERA stands by to open the astern valve to bring the engine to stop. There is available a DVD of a series of training films, one of which shows the flashing up from cold of a destroyers boilers, available from Maritime Books in Liskeard Cornwall.

re post #2.

The ship builders' plate is quite clear on this one, and it's Cammell Laird number 1012.

That makes this H.M.S. ARK ROYAL, having been built just before the war; and later in 1941, to be sunk.

qprdave
20-05-2010, 16:22
Found this, published in The Times on June 8, 1910 , titled "Engineers in the Royal Navy

oldsalt
20-05-2010, 18:08
What a great article, how things have changed, one of the Commander (E's) I served under finally retired as a Full Admiral. I remember he was most insistent that the Engineer Officers under him should always think of themselves as Naval Officers first & Engineers second.

clevewyn
26-05-2010, 19:13
A cartoon from the Arks commissioning book sums it all up quite well I think:D

INVINCIBLE
26-05-2010, 19:43
What a great article, how things have changed, one of the Commander (E's) I served under finally retired as a Full Admiral. I remember he was most insistent that the Engineer Officers under him should always think of themselves as Naval Officers first & Engineers second.

Though sadly they were always regarded the other way round and I suspect still are. I know a senior engineer officer who was appointed COMDRAKE it was at the time they were experimenting with changing the rank of COMDRAKE from Commodore to Captain. He was told that as he was only an engineer it did not matter!! He was relieved by a Seaman officer and of course the rank was put back to Commodore.

qprdave
26-05-2010, 19:50
clevewyn

Thanks for your post.

May I suggest something?

When you add a URL, we only have the picture for as long as it is on the website. If that gets taken off then we have nothing. Then anyone, in the future will not have a clue what everyone is talking about when they look at this thread.

The best thing to do is to save the picture to your hard drive and then add it to the forum as an attachment. The picture will then go onto our server and it will be there for all time. Once you have done that you can then delete the picture from your hard drive

qprdave

clevewyn
26-05-2010, 21:33
Good thinking Batman:D

Cheers.

oldsalt
27-05-2010, 15:44
A cartoon from the Arks commissioning book sums it all up quite well I think:D

Having served in Ark Royal from Mar 61 to Sep 63 that cartoon is bang on, everything that could break , did!

clevewyn
27-05-2010, 16:11
Having served in Ark Royal from Mar 61 to Sep 63 that cartoon is bang on, everything that could break , did!

I did the next commission as well and trust me it only got worse.

Scurs
27-05-2010, 17:04
Which would explain why the most frequent ship to feature in evening floodlit soccer matches at TERROR was ARK ROYAL! Due to never leaving the jetty! :D
Oh no...........not ARK v TRIUMPH again!!!:)

oldsalt
27-05-2010, 18:31
The only way for me to leave Ark was to be flown into Hong Kong to go back to Guzz prior to being promoted. Just before I left it was my luck to be in charge of the two after units when we had a serious luboil failure in the main gearing which gave me a twitch of the old sphinctre. :eek::eek::confused:

clevewyn
27-05-2010, 18:58
October 65 diary for Ark makes interesting reading.

20th. Arrive Singapore for SMP.
29th. Captain Fell relieves Captain Griffin.
31st. Fire in B Boiler Room.

Poor sod only been in charge for two days and his fine new command up the spout :D

I remember it well, we came back from the dockyard cinema and there were fire engines all over the shop.

qprdave
27-05-2010, 19:09
Excuse me, Lads.

I think that we are getting quite a bit off topic. The thread was started about Boiler and Engine Rooms.

I an sure that you will understand that we should return to the subject in hand. There are threads that deals with HMS Ark Royal, for you to carry on your chat. Or, start a new thread

Thanks

Dave

qprdave
27-05-2010, 23:04
The Marine Boiler

Published in The Times on 21st September 1882

qprdave
27-05-2010, 23:08
The Marine Steam Engine

Published in The Times on 2nd November 1882

JarrowDave
05-06-2010, 01:28
All these early engineering experiences, plus naval training, in my case as a Mechanician then in due course promotion. When I left the RN in 72, I had been an Engineer Officer for 9 yrs. Casting around for a new job eventually led me to the Merchant Navy, Mobil Oil was the company. I joined as a 2nd. Engineer. Much to my amazment , when I arrived on my first crude oil tanker 100,000 tons I found I was to be a one man band in charge of not only engineering maintenance but electrical also. I had to get reaquainted with the tool box again. I don't mean any offence to any MN who may read this, but I was dismayed to find that they had very little experience of maintenance. I think because of my background I was asked to take charge of a repair team of four Indian fitters, our job was to do onboard repairs to save on shipyard costs. Some of Mobil tankers had German Officers, there are probably thousands of brilliant German engineers, they certainly was'nt any in the MN. I stayed in the MN having various jobs until my deafness reached a point when , I was told your sea going days are finished, I can't complain , I was treated very well by Mobil. It may have been hot & mucky in the ER dept but I enjoyed the feeling of a job well done. I did'nt join up until 49 so I had no experience of warfare other than Korea, but I have always wondered how I would have conducted myself down below in action knowing at any moment you could be blown up, burnt by fuel or cooked by steam or drowned. I think in those circumstances I may have been willing to swop a boiler room for a gun mounting.

Was that the British MN or the International Pool? I was in the The British MN at the time, with only British Officers, mind some of them were Scotch or Welsh, and we were expected to fix anything, we certainly got enough practice. We got a load of ex RN people in the early 70s, they didn't stay long, they already had good pensions.


JD

qprdave
05-06-2010, 01:48
Water-Tubed Boilers in the Royal Navy

Published in The Times on November 22, 1893

Derek Goodwin
23-07-2010, 10:11
Are there any drawings of Y 100 Boiler room Pipework layouts as for type 14's and type 12's ? ( Other then those in BR 3001 and Mech notes)

I did see some coloured photos of HMS Plymouth's Boiler room on an earlier web page of the Historic Ships web page but for some reason they were withdrawn ?

DALETRIM
23-07-2010, 12:14
Good Reading On On Stokers As I'v Always Wondered What My Fathers Roll As A Leading Stoker Was As He Was On The Archilles.
D W Dale He Was A Recipient Of The Albert Medal
Cheers
Grant :)

Pat in Halifax
24-07-2010, 03:28
Derek:
My first 15+ years were on Canadian DDHs (SAG, YUK, NIP, MAR, GAT)and I am sure I have some pics of Boiler Room and Engine Room (Y 100). I will try to get them on here. Quite different than now with the comfy letherette chair in the air conditioned (and quiet!) MCR!

qprdave
24-07-2010, 03:45
Thanks for posting Pat

DDHs (SAG, YUK, NIP, MAR, GAT)

what on earth does that lot mean:confused:

rab.m.
24-07-2010, 15:14
Boiler rooms are normally portrayed as hot sticky steamy places,but I can remember as a junior stoker on the Maidstone at Faslane in the middle of winter having to wear full Artic clothing while on watch because of the snow blowing through the forced draught trunking.On one of those nights I got the fright of my life when a sectional wheel spanner landed at my feet,looking up there was Bertie the water tender who had a bad stammer, hanging over the rail trying hard to say something,eventually he managed to blurt out OH F\\\k it,its back at half a glass anyway.
regards rab.:eek::D

Forester
26-07-2010, 12:11
Talking to an old stoker, he said he almost froze to death in a destroyer boiler room during one arctic convoy when the air coming down through the fans was five below zero (fahrenheit that is !) and nowhere to shelter like "that lot loafing about on the bridge" as he put it

harry.gibbon
26-07-2010, 13:08
Thanks for posting Pat

DDHs (SAG, YUK, NIP, MAR, GAT)

what on earth does that lot mean:confused:

Taken from Pats' own Bio entries, ships he served on:-

HMCS Yukon (STL)
HMCS Saguenay (STL)
HMCS Nipigon (ANN)
HMCS Gatineau (IRE)
HMCS Toronto (HAL)
HMCS St Johns (HAL)
HMCS Halifax (HAL)


It's half the fun for me;) haven't fathomed MAR yet though, but hope these help anyway.

Little h

oldsalt
28-07-2010, 16:55
In Wrangler, pre conversion, in a spot of roughers someone forgot to shut the side intakes for B blr rm. One big goffer came straight down the forced draught fan intake splashed over the FFO up & downer pump & stopped it dead, a rather amusing interlude to brighten Stoke's day.

cheapchippy
15-09-2010, 04:56
On my first day on board the boilers were flashed and i was terrified as i crawled on top of the boiler to open the main stop superheat steam valve with my wheel spanner, "Propper power"

Closing the Main Steam Stop Valve is one of my enduring;) memories; at least when opening it you had all that pressure being the valve and once you got it off its seat you could damn near spin the valve open through the length of the spindle.

I used to dread shutting the MSS valve on the "top plates" behind the boiler. Usually the water tender would give you a hand or another sprayer puncher, but if you had to do it yourself you knew about afterwards...as you recovered under the freshes trunking.

And the "wheelie" was something else too...one big mother.

rab.m.
18-09-2010, 19:11
A sectional wheel spanner if my memory serves me correctly.:confused:

oldsalt
19-09-2010, 14:10
I think the boiler fronts in Vanguard may have been unique. The boiler fronts were shaped like the underside of a saucer, called focal fronts, the idea of this shape was that all the burners were aimed at the furnace centre. I never saw any other boilers so fitted. I'm sure if these were fitted in other ships someone will tell me. Incidentally I thought the closed front boilers as fitted in the emergency class's were better than the open fronts fitted in the Battle class.

Nauftikos
01-10-2010, 07:53
Just thought it may be of interest (to some) to include any old photos depicting life in the "bowels" ? Not sure if it's been done before - But didn't notice a previous thread ? One from me - Not sure of date, but late 1800's I believe?

Dreadnought
01-10-2010, 11:14
Great photo Nauftikos .... Thanks.

There is a thread about boiler & engine rooms here:

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6914&highlight=boiler

I was going to merge your thread with it. But will wait to see if this develops into a gallery of lots of photos first.

Cheers

Nauftikos
01-10-2010, 13:11
Thanks for that Clive...I obviously didn't look far enough !
Photo's of this type seem few & far between, but from my own experience never really thought much about taking a camera on watch back then - also the security aspect as well I suppose...Those Ruskies were everywhere :D

Destroyerman
01-10-2010, 14:05
Keith,

a domed front boiler makes a lot of sense. Having the 'suspended flame' (remember the term?) concentrated in the middle of the furnace obviates localising heat on one particular bank of tubes. I assume it is the Admiralty 3 Drum Boiler you refer to. However, I never came across this design in my time.
Increasing the number of sprayers according to steam demand was a bit of an art, trying to 'balance' the spread of heat in the furnace.
I have enjoyed reading this thread and it has evoked many memories of life spent in the heart of the ship.:)
Hopefully I will be able to contribute some of my own experiences shortly.:D

astraltrader
02-10-2010, 00:49
Threads now merged.

Destroyerman
15-10-2010, 15:59
Superheated steam leaks.

Did any of you guys experience the horror of horrors?

I managed it on my last seagoing draft, HMS TORQUAY. Just after a commercial refit on the Tyne.

Luckily we were alongside doing a post refit basin trial. On watch in the boiler room I heard an horrific noise coming from near the boiler room hatch. At first I thought it was a bearing on the forced draft blower or the steam driven turbo alternator. In fact it was a spiral wound gasket that had been incorrectly fitted on the main superheated steam pipe between the boiler room and engine room bulkhead. Within seconds the noise had become a scream and superheated steam was gathering in a massive cloud near the boiler room hatch. By this time the decision had to be made to report the leak to the Chief of the watch (unnecessary really, as it would have been patently obvious with the noise) and shut down both boilers. Once the burners had been shut off, the stokers were told to evacuate the compartment via the emergency escape hatch (using the normal access could have proved fatal) and after doing some vital operations, I took steps to evacuate as well. When I got to the Burmah way I noticed a group of ships company peering down the boiler room hatch. If only they knew how dangerous their curiosity was!!:rolleyes:

Never wanted to experience that again.:cool:

oldsalt
15-10-2010, 18:28
Fortunately I never witnessed a major superheated steam leak . In Ark Royal a leak was reported above the maneuvering valves. The noise of the leak was apparent it's source was not. I arrived in the ER just as a young Eng. Officer was attempting to hoist himself up to have a look, I grabbed him just in time & informed him (in a differential tone of voice) that his locating attempt could have had serious consequences for him. I then demonstrated locating the leak, as I was shown years before, attaching a piece of rag to a broom handle, when he saw the effect on the rag he said Thanks. :rolleyes:

Destroyerman
15-10-2010, 18:45
Absolutely Keith. Superheated steam is a killer in more ways than one.

HMS TORQUAY was Navigating and Engineering Officers training ship at the time, and it was a great pity that they were not embarked during the incident. First hand experience for Divisional Officers!:rolleyes:

The group that clustered around the boiler room hatch were admonished via Daily Orders the following day for the danger they presented to themselves and to the boiler room crew.

Although I must admit that the boier room staff were cheered when we finally emerged from the compartment.

To be honest, one of my main concerns was the machinery (main feed pump, forced draft blowers, steam turbo alternators etc) that were slowly coming to a standstill without hand pumping the lub oil to the bearings.:rolleyes:

argee
31-10-2010, 19:22
Hello everyone. Hope someone out there can help me. My grandfather designed and manufactured the 8" and 12" wheel spanner back in the 1930's. Is there anyone out there who might have an old one I could beg. If there is I can send you a brand new drop forged one to replace it. Many thanks. :)

argee
31-10-2010, 19:29
Hello everyone. Hope someone out there can help me. My grandfather designed and manufactured the 8" and 12" wheel spanner back in the 1930's. Is there anyone out there who might have an old one I could beg. If there is I can send you a brand new drop forged one to replace it. Many thanks.:)

Destroyerman
31-10-2010, 19:36
argee,

when I married my wife we had a guard of honour with chromium plated wheelspanners. We kept one (8") as a keepsake and I have looked everywhere but I cannot find it. Must have disappeared during one of the many 'moves' we made since.

If I could have found it, you would have been welcome to it.

Sandy.

Destroyerman
31-10-2010, 19:43
Meanwhile, on the subject of wheelspanners, I took my grandson Harry around my favourite Naval attraction in Portsmouth, HMS WARRIOR . It was the day that HMS DARING (Type 45) first visited.

On a tour of the ship I was explaining the workings of the main engine when he asked what a certain object was which was attached to the bulkhead. It was a sectional (very large) wheelspanner and I described in detail what the 'wheelie' was used for. At the time there was an official guide hovering nearby. When I had finished explaining to Harry the guide said, "I'm glad you explained that to the lad, I was wondering what that object was myself".:D

You just cannot beat experience eh?!:rolleyes:

keblin
31-10-2010, 19:52
Hello everyone. Hope someone out there can help me. My grandfather designed and manufactured the 8" and 12" wheel spanner back in the 1930's. Is there anyone out there who might have an old one I could beg. If there is I can send you a brand new drop forged one to replace it. Many thanks. :)

What was your grandfathers name?

He deserves a medal.

oldsalt
01-11-2010, 15:15
You were really the bees knees when you had your own wheelspanner tucked into the rule pocket of your boiler suit, lovingly polished & lusted after by the wheelspannerless Stokes.

Destroyerman
01-11-2010, 15:27
Absolutely Keith.

And some of us got to be as quick on the draw as Clint Eastwood or John Wayne.:D

Destroyerman
01-11-2010, 18:21
HMS HERMES 1959 First Commission.

As a Junior M(E) I was on watch in the port tiller flat (steering gear compartment). Suddenly, every time the gear moved the whole back end of the ship would judder. I 'phoned MCR and within minutes half of the department descended into both tiller flats. Must have been 20 Cdr(E), Lieutenants, Tiffies and Mechs swarming over the steering gear rams. My immediate thought was "I hope I get relieved before this lot needs cleaning up". The ship was stopped for obvious reasons.
Anyway, I concluded that where there was vibration there would be heat, so being a scrawny little stoker I searched under the rams and came across a distinct 'hotspot'. It was a ram guideplate with a massive grease nipple/cup on it, which had never been greased since installation. The phosphor bronze guideplate, (the size of an average coffee table), had warped badly and was causing the massive juddering.
I pointed this out to a nearby Tiffy and he confirmed.
Then he beckoned to Commander (E) saying, "I've found the problem sir, I've found the problem".
Damn cheek! A grotty little junior stoker had found the problem not him!
I learned a lesson that day, don't use intermediaries in an emergency when you can go straight to the top yourself.
I hope that brown nosed Tiffy is reading this right now. You have had to live with it for long enough.:rolleyes:

ekd
02-11-2010, 20:38
One thing that always amazed me was the size of the propellors on ships.

You never realised how big these things were, until you dry docked, and had a good butchers at them!

I served on two ships which dry/floating docked. A Blackwood frigate (at Rosyth), a Daring class destroyer (at Singapore floating dock 1963, and Tai Koo Hong kong 1964). I was impressed by the size of the propellor castings in phospher bronze, and never gave it a thought of how they were made.
These were singley cast in one peice. Blades and boss together as a single unit. No fancy compounds here!

I thought this was all magnificent at 15-20 tons or so, until I saw recently the Queen Mary's propellors were 45 tons of bronze in a single cast!
Made in England by one of many capable firms!

Has anyone got any information about these firms which cast these, or their capability in the early years of the 20th century?

regards

Destroyerman
02-11-2010, 20:54
An image that puts a destroyer propeller in perspective Edward.

Yours truly (in uniform) inspecting a propeller from HMS CAVALIER with Mike Jackman and Ben Cartwright (ex POMEM(M) ).

Forgive the quality as it is from a small newspaper cutting when CAVALIER first opened to the public 1982 in Mayflower Park, Southampton.

Sandy.

ekd
02-11-2010, 21:00
An image that puts a destroyer propeller in perspective Edward.

Yours truly (in uniform) inspecting a propeller from HMS CAVALIER with Mike Jackman and Ben Cartwright (ex POMEM(M) ).

Forgive the quality as it is from a small newspaper cutting when CAVALIER first opened to the public 1982 in Mayflower Park, Southampton.

Sandy.

What was the wieght of it, Sandy?

ekd
02-11-2010, 21:05
An image that puts a destroyer propeller in perspective Edward.

Yours truly (in uniform) inspecting a propeller from HMS CAVALIER with Mike Jackman and Ben Cartwright (ex POMEM(M) ).

Forgive the quality as it is from a small newspaper cutting when CAVALIER first opened to the public 1982 in Mayflower Park, Southampton.

Sandy.

Sandy, when was this: and why in Southampton?

Destroyerman
02-11-2010, 21:07
Edward,

the glib answer would be: "Dunno, the three of us couldn't lift it!".:D

And the short answer is, I have no idea, Maybe around four tons as mentioned in one of the many press reports. It would be pretty much the same weight as the Daring Class propeller that you mention in your original post.

This happened August 1982. The director of the Museum project lived in Hampshire, Lord Louis Mountbatten who was involved in saving CAVALIER also lived in Hampshire so I suppose Mayflower Park was receptive to the idea. My son, and one of the directors son's had just returned from the Falklands Conflict on board HMS FEARLESS and were asked to 'open' the attraction on the day. Since then she resided at Brighton, South Shields and finally at a secure location in Chatham Historic Dockyard.

ekd
02-11-2010, 21:12
Tanks, Sandy.

I thought so. But why in Southhampton? I thought Cavalier had always been at Chatham?

Please enlighten me.

ekd
02-11-2010, 21:31
Here's another question......

Seriously, How did they make these precision items without a computer aided design and computer aided manufacture???

(Blinking heck! Somebody must have been working hard!)

(Did they send for the 'OEM' guys?? ;);):D to build them one..)

(The OEM what?.. "Oh eye, that's us, by the way, Mary hen!")


Gordon Bennett!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

clevewyn
03-11-2010, 06:35
I may be wrong but I believe large castings were done in sand molds.

First you made a wooden propellor or anchor or whatever to the precise measurements then constructed the mold in two parts (top and bottom).

Removed the wooden prop, joined the mold together and poured. Break off mold when object has cooled, buff and polish to correct measurement.

Potted version, I`m sure a lot of hard work and head scratching went with it as well.

keblin
03-11-2010, 10:25
I may be wrong but I believe large castings were done in sand molds.

First you made a wooden propellor or anchor or whatever to the precise measurements then constructed the mold in two parts (top and bottom).

Removed the wooden prop, joined the mold together and poured. Break off mold when object has cooled, buff and polish to correct measurement.

Potted version, I`m sure a lot of hard work and head scratching went with it as well.

My favourite subject!
You are nearly right about the construction, but they did'nt make a big wooden prop!
As you can see from the attached pics, the floor cast constuction tequnique is totally different, and marvellous.
There was no guessing, or scratching of heads, these guys knew exactly what and how to do it.
What a wonderful sequence of events to produce such a work of art!
The conditions were awful, and no H+S devices either...but they got on with it and turned out the finest pieces of engineering hardware in the world.
British craftmanship at its best!

Not a laptop in sight!

clevewyn
03-11-2010, 13:01
Thanks for that, and it looks like hard graft.

mandrake079
03-11-2010, 15:55
This photo was taken by my late father-in-law, who served as an ERA in HMS Kent between September 1941 and February 1945. Can anyone please tell me precisely what part of engineering this depicts?

keblin
03-11-2010, 16:14
This photo was taken by my late father-in-law, who served as an ERA in HMS Kent between September 1941 and February 1945. Can anyone please tell me precisely what part of engineering this depicts?

This is the engine room, mandrake079. It is a typical set up of the engine room, with the telegraphs from the bridge, and the large throttle wheels, which control the steam into the turbines.
Looking at the telegraph setting it's 'Half ahead', I cant see the 'revolutions counter', but it looks like steady steaming by their relaxed postures, and 't fag inth 'and.
Is your father-in-law one of the characters, or did he take the photo?
Someone might know better, but were there two shafts being controlled by one engineroom on this class of ship?
great photo.
Have you any more?
Love to see them if you have.

keblin
03-11-2010, 20:52
It always pays to mention the units you are expressing, rather than just 'degrees'.
Is it Celsius, Fahrenheit, Kelvin or some other scale of degrees?
As you previously saw, 1200 degrees Fahrenheit is only about 650 degrees Celsius, so is quite normal for the superheat as described, and does not pose an issue.

I spent a lot of time in 'A' boiler room of H.M.S. Diana in the '60's, and was quite pleased with the boiler set up and performance.
Steam pressure 650 psi, and superheat temperature 850 F.

I worked on 'A' evaps, next to the boiler, but lent a lot of my time helping out on the furnace, with the rest of our team on our watch.

The P.O.M.E. was Dave Shallcross, from Manchester. He was the most laid back bloke I ever met.
'Shally' did not make black smoke, no matter what the ship was doing! He knew how to handle those Foster Wheeler boilers.
They were no problem. You had to realise, the saturated furnace kept the steam pressure up, and the superheat side maintained the superheat temperature.
Balancing the furnaces, as someone has said needed to be done, is a red herring.
He taught me a lot of good things from his experience.
You must always keep the pressure up, as with any boiler and THEN keep the superheat up, in that order.
When you flash-up a sprayer, whether it be on either furnace bank, you must have increased you air supply BEFORE telling the stoker to 'Up One!','Up Two' etc. etc etc.
That makes sure you don't make black smoke, on either furnace.

Later in life, when I was POME on the Eagle, 'A' boiler room, I took extreme care never to make black smoke.
It's o.k. to make some white smoke at certain times, it's inevitable when having the fan speeds too high,
such as when entering harbour, or launching aircraft; in anticipation of the sudden great demand for much steam demand, in an instant.
If your fans are not already up there at high revs, you could black out the port, or the flight deck, at the most inconvenient time.
You will then be summons to the Captain's table next day!
You had to be on your toes!
Great days though.

ivorthediver
04-11-2010, 08:49
My favourite subject!
You are nearly right about the construction, but they did'nt make a big wooden prop!
As you can see from the attached pics, the floor cast constuction tequnique is totally different, and marvellous.
There was no guessing, or scratching of heads, these guys knew exactly what and how to do it.
What a wonderful sequence of events to produce such a work of art!
The conditions were awful, and no H+S devices either...but they got on with it and turned out the finest pieces of engineering hardware in the world.
British craftmanship at its best!

Not a laptop in sight!

Thanks Keblin, often wondered how they evolved from design to fitting

keblin
06-11-2010, 20:45
It's the same for bell casting too.

All the bells are cast in the same way, really.

They don't make a wooden bell first!

That kind of system is for the making of things from a PATTERN.

ln bell making, they use a similar system to that of making propellers, but on a smaller scale.
Two separate halves are made in a ceramic material (clay) from a profiled shape.

These two 'male' and 'female' shapes are then joined / mated together, leaving a space between them, which is the exact shape of the metal 'bell' to be formed.

Any decoration on the bell is embellished on the clay before casting which will stand proud on the metal, or the bell mould surface is left plain, for subsequent engraving after the casting process.

Either way, it's a great process; and well mastered by our British craftsman throghout hundreds of years. Like it or not, these craftsmen knew how to make the deadliest weapons, by using the same techniques.

I've just remembered, the Whitechapel Bell Foundry in London, made a great documentary in the 1980's of this technique, with the BBC. It should still be available to those interested.

astraltrader
06-11-2010, 21:42
My favourite subject!
You are nearly right about the construction, but they did'nt make a big wooden prop!
As you can see from the attached pics, the floor cast constuction tequnique is totally different, and marvellous.
There was no guessing, or scratching of heads, these guys knew exactly what and how to do it.
What a wonderful sequence of events to produce such a work of art!
The conditions were awful, and no H+S devices either...but they got on with it and turned out the finest pieces of engineering hardware in the world.
British craftmanship at its best!

Not a laptop in sight!

Hi Keblin:
Were those taken from a 4 volume set called Shipping Wonders of the World or were they from a different set??

Just curious! :confused:

keblin
07-11-2010, 09:50
Hi Keblin:
Were those taken from a 4 volume set called Shipping Wonders of the World or were they from a different set??

Just curious! :confused:

No, Terry. They are from a different set about Wonders of World Engineering.
Published in the 1930's; there were many similar publications, and much of the content was replicated, due to its common nature in the various themes.

astraltrader
07-11-2010, 22:52
Many thanks Keblin - I agree with what you say there were indeed many of these type of books - often in sets.

Dreadnought
08-11-2010, 09:16
Interesting pictures of the engine room of HMS Royal Oak.


Original source of photographs unknown. No copyright restrictions evident.

Destroyerman
08-11-2010, 09:44
Nice image of the 'plates' of HMS ROYAL OAK Clive.

The object to the right of the voicepipe on the console is interesting. At first glance it appears to be the telephone indicator light, because, in the noise of a machinery space, an incoming telephone call may not always be heard. The call illuminates the the lamp.

But on closer inspection, it may be a very early AEL (action emergency lamp). These should automatically illuminate when the compartment main lighting fails.

Any thoughts? :rolleyes:

Destroyerman
08-11-2010, 09:55
....and perhaps image 2 is a side view of two boiler fronts.

On the left appear to be sprayer tap valves and further back from that can be seen the sprayer registers on the other boiler.

To the right of the image may be the associated fuel pumps.

However, I may be wrong as I was just a 'twinkle' when the photographs were taken.

Irrespective, I am always fascinated with bygone images of machinery spaces and they remind me of a time in my life where I was fiercely proud of my naval vocation.

Thanks for posting them Clive.:)

ekd
08-11-2010, 13:46
".and perhaps image 2 is a side view of two boiler fronts.

On the left appear to be sprayer tap valves and further back from that can be seen the sprayer registers on the other boiler.

To the right of the image may be the associated fuel pumps."


I agree with all your observations about these pics entirely. It's a classic set up.

Yes, and great pictures, Clive.

oldsalt
08-11-2010, 16:02
The first photo is interesting, could those strips be encasing lagging on turbines?

mandrake079
08-11-2010, 16:47
Can anyone confirm which ship this might be? My late father-in-law (centre) served in various ships between 1941 and 1961, including the cruisers Kent, Swiftsure, Superb, Cleopatra, and the dock landing ship Oceanway. From its size, however, and his apparent age, this could be the survey ship HMS Dampier in the Far East between 1959 and 1961.

Destroyerman
08-11-2010, 18:17
Mandrake079,

might I suggest it could be the OCEANWAY.

The reason that I suggest this is the two lights that show in the upper edge of the image. The basket type shields appear to be non British standard and if my memory serves me correctly, all our British machinery space lights had clear glass bowls.

The guy with the American hat is wearing RN issue overalls but no departmental badge. Your late father-in-law is topless in a machinery space.
All of the preceding would certainly not be allowed in a British Cruiser!

Sandy.

ekd
08-11-2010, 19:23
The first photo is interesting, could those strips be encasing lagging on turbines?

I would agree with you there, Keith.
All sorts of hot surfaces were finshed that way, when early insulating methods were employed. You see it on old shell type boilers as well.
Later it was replaced by the slap-on moulded smooth finish mortars, and then nicely whitewashed!

jbryce1437
08-11-2010, 20:43
As a former electrician, I'm pretty sure that guards were fitted over well glass shades located in vulnerable places in machinery spaces on the old Ark Royal and Undaunted when I served on them. A similar type were also fitted in magazines, but needed a special spanner to open them up because of intrinsic safety.
I suppose the photo could have been posed for and taken when the machinery wasn't flashed up.
I had a hat like that, courtesy of an American sailor I met in Olongapo;).

Jim

NSR
08-11-2010, 20:55
A bit of guesswork - if Royal Oak had a similar layout to Revenge then the two turbines with wooden lagging casings would be the LPs in the centre engine room. I remember them from my time when Revenge formed part of the stoker training establishment, HMS Imperieuse. There were only two engines for the four shafts. The throttles were in the centre engine room and supplied steam to the HP turbines and cruising turbines in the wing engine rooms. The exhaust from them was piped back to the LPs in the centre engine room. The LPs were single flow and, as they were direct drive to the prop shafts, were very large in diameter and low in the space. The exhaust came out of the top to a condenser slung over the prop shaft and, because of its construction in wedge shaped sections, looked like a giant armadillo. I can't remember the reverse turbine system but I remember being impressed by the sheer size of the units.

The boiler rooms were shut down and the sloping uptakes at FD fan level made a comfortable position to lie and read or make up your fair book away from the hustle and bustle of the mess deck. Steam was supplied from Valiant so there was some heat from pipework nearby making life pleasant in a very cold winter. Again from memory, there were three boiler rooms each having six Babcock boilers in two rows of three facing each other. Operating pressure was 250 psi.

If anyone can confirm the similarity I would like to download the photos for my collection as I have none of Revenge.

Ken

Destroyerman
08-11-2010, 21:09
I take your point about strengthening lights Jim, but never in 25 years did I see the 'basket' guard fitted in vulnerable places in machinery spaces. I just don't remember the design. Maybe a 'quartered' guard but none like in the photograph.

Perhaps I served in the wrong warships (Aircraft Carriers, Destroyers and Frigates) but we were never, ever, allowed below, whether flashed or 'cold', improperly dressed: ie stripped to the waist.:rolleyes:

However, what I posted before was just an observation from an old Chief Stoker in response to a request for information. Hopefully it will be of some help to Mandrake in his quest.:rolleyes:

ekd
08-11-2010, 21:13
Thanks for that Ken. Very interesting.

What were the gearing arrangements, was there any separate gearing room?

NSR
08-11-2010, 21:47
ekd,
The only gearing I remember was between the cruising turbines and the HPs located in the wing engine rooms. The LP turbines were direct drive on to their respective prop shafts, hence the sheer size and, from memory, the HPs were also direct drive. Think of high speed steam velocity at the turbine nozzles and low speed of rotation of the prop shafts and the formula for the circumference of a circle to get matching velocities.

The reason I am a bit hazy is because in the photos the height of the guard rail compared with the turbine casing would suggest that, with the shaft centreline at floor level, the LP turbine is about 10/11 feet diameter. From memory, when I stood on the floor plates in Revenge's centre engine room the top of the LP was about 2 feet above my head so, at 5ft 8in, I estimate the diameter was 14 or 15 feet, but it was 60+ years ago. Oh, and I've shrunk a bit since.

Hope that helps.

Ken

ekd
08-11-2010, 22:01
Thanks, Ken.

Yes it does help. Much obliged.

harry.gibbon
08-11-2010, 22:49
Gentlemanly stoker friends, 'tis approx 6 months and one hour since making my post #67 on this thread, followed up by post #70 where-in I enquired about a 'water jet propulsion system' on the Londonderry.

To date neither post has elicited a reply, so in the absence of any information, should one construe that none of our stoker fraternity on this forum knows anything of the system?

Little h

Destroyerman
08-11-2010, 22:55
Sorry Harry, I've not heard anything about a 'water jet propulsion system' on board HMS LONDONDERRY.

But that's not to say there wasn't anything of that nature installed. Just not to my knowledge.

Sandy.

harry.gibbon
08-11-2010, 23:20
Sorry Harry, I've not heard anything about a 'water jet propulsion system' on board HMS LONDONDERRY.

But that's not to say there wasn't anything of that nature installed. Just not to my knowledge.

Sandy.

Cheers for the response Sandy. Should you have missed the link about the trial of said system, it is contained in my post #67.

Little h

Dreadnought
09-11-2010, 09:29
Boiler room of HMS Collingwood 1918.

There were eighteen Babcock & Wilcox coal fired boilers arranged in three groups. They were additionally fitted with oil sprayers to allow for faster raising of steam. Steam pressure was 235 psi with a heating surface of 63,414 square feet. Bunker capacity was 2,800 tons of coal and 940 tons of oil, with consumption at full speed around 360 tons per day.

Collingwood had quadruple propellers driven by Parsons direct drive steam turbines very similar to Dreadnought, except that no cruising turbine was fitted. Instead an extra stage was fitted to the high pressure turbines, separated from the main turbine by a by-pass valve. The high pressure turbines drove the outboard propeller shafts and the low pressure turbines the inner shafts developing a normal power of 24,500 HP at 21 knots.


Going back to HMS Revenge, mentioned in post #141, she had eighteen large tube Babcock & Wilcox oil fired boliers delivering 235 psi steam pressure. Bunker capacity was 3,440 tons of oil and 160 tons of coal.

She had Parsons reaction type direct drive turbines driving quadruple three bladed propellors of 9.5 feet diameter each, developing 36,000 SHP for 21 knots. There were three engine rooms. The two wing spaces, contained the HP turbines which drove the outboard shafts, with a small cruising turbine driving through a set of reduction gears. The centre engine room contained the two low pressure turbines which drove the inboard shafts.

HMS Royal Oak had the same configuration and specification, except having Yarrow boilers.


Original source of photograph unknown. No copyright restrictions evident.

ekd
09-11-2010, 14:39
Excellent, Clive.

Thanks for that information, and confirmation of the direct drive explained by Ken earlier.

I've been trying to find some reliable drawings or sketches of early warship machinery layouts, but they seem a bit thin on the ground.

Do you, or anyone else know of any sources?

ekd
09-11-2010, 15:49
Gentlemanly stoker friends, 'tis approx 6 months and one hour since making my post #67 on this thread, followed up by post #70 where-in I enquired about a 'water jet propulsion system' on the Londonderry.

To date neither post has elicited a reply, so in the absence of any information, should one construe that none of our stoker fraternity on this forum knows anything of the system?

Little h

Sorry little h,

I did notice your enquiry some time ago, but never got round to answering it.
I know a lot about the 'water jet propulsion systems', but there many; and not all are suitable for large surface warships.
As with any device, there are advantages and dis-advantages.
But by far the biggest advantage, in modern day warfare is the noise reduction advantage, giving a lower sonar signature, especially at high speeds.

I believe the Londonderry was fitted with "low cavitation props" in her refit.
The exact spec for these I do not know, but I will gamble it was similar, or a precursor, to what is now fitted to the latest submarines. That is why it was being tested on an old, well reserched vessel, no doubt.
The enclosed or ducted prop can offer low cavitation properties, thereby reducing noise and the risk of being detected.
Although not really a full blown water jet, but rather ducted flow, the results can be spectacular, in achieving the main accoustic reduction objectives.

Really we need a stoker from the Londonderry who saw the actual tackle, to give us the full account.

One needs to be there in any of these developments, to understand what is really going on. I once did many journeys taking 18 tonnes of seawater at a time, from Portland Harbour to West Drayton near Heathrow in London. It was to a Research Station, testing the special seals for Nuclear Submarine prop shafts. Of course it had to be real sea water in the high pressure low temperature experiments!
Your average punter down the street from the establishment hadn't a clue what's going on next door to him.

hope this helps

Dreadnought
09-11-2010, 17:04
Two unidentified engine rooms, dated per caption, purportedly both RN ships.


Original source of photographs unknown. No copyright restrictions evident.

oldsalt
09-11-2010, 17:13
First picture is obviously a RN ship some time ago, she has reciprocating engines. Second, what our American friends call , the fireroom, probably WW2 vintage.

NSR
09-11-2010, 18:02
Thanks for the confirmation re Revenge Clive, (post #149) the course lasted 12 weeks and visits to the machinery spaces occurred out of curiousity during off-duty periods and did not form part of the stokers' course. That concentrated on Valiant's machinery which more modern and included Admiralty boilers and geared turbines. At least I know that memory has not succumbed to the fickle finger of fate.

Ken

ekd
09-11-2010, 18:59
Two unidentified engine rooms, dated per caption, purportedly both RN ships.


Original source of photographs unknown. No copyright restrictions evident.

The first pix is shown in post #32 by Nauftikos. Yes, very early engine room.

Dreadnought
09-11-2010, 21:15
Sorry chaps,

I think EKD refers to the pic posted by Nauftikos in post #99. not #32 ... I should have checked more carefully. However, I will leave it, as my version shows a bit more detail.

ekd
09-11-2010, 21:19
Sorry chaps,

I think EKD refers to the pic posted by Nauftikos in post #99. not #32 ... I should have checked more carefully. However, I will leave it, as my version shows a bit more detail.

Dead right Clive ... 32 is the number of posts he had made up 'til then!

harry.gibbon
09-11-2010, 21:40
EKD, your response in post #151 much appreciated.

As a former Type 12 crew member, I remain ever amazed as to the number of variations that the basic hull type withstood and shall continue to search for any other references to this particular development/trial.

Little h

ekd
10-11-2010, 21:27
Derek:
My first 15+ years were on Canadian DDHs (SAG, YUK, NIP, MAR, GAT)and I am sure I have some pics of Boiler Room and Engine Room (Y 100). I will try to get them on here. Quite different than now with the comfy letherette chair in the air conditioned (and quiet!) MCR!

Pat, did you ever manage to dig out these pics?

or did you succumbe to the leatherette chair yourself? :)

ekd
10-11-2010, 21:55
General question to our most experienced E.R. members..

The back pressure turbines; i.e. some turbo generators, forced draught fans, main feed pumps, fire pumps etc, etc. etc. exhausted into the 'exhaust system'.

What was the pressure in this system, and how was this pressure controlled?

I used to know, but the old grey cells are rapidly becoming oxidised!

I'd love to recall these little bits of information. I wish I'd never thrown all my notebooks into the Bay of Biscay, on my final trip home to Pompey. :(

oldsalt
11-11-2010, 13:58
15 lbs/in Controled by a closed exhaust regulating valve passing into condenser.

ekd
11-11-2010, 15:42
15 lbs/in Controled by a closed exhaust regulating valve passing into condenser.

Thanks, Keith. Much appreciated.

E.R.Tiffy
14-11-2010, 18:14
General question to our most experienced E.R. members..

The back pressure turbines; i.e. some turbo generators, forced draught fans, main feed pumps, fire pumps etc, etc. etc. exhausted into the 'exhaust system'.

What was the pressure in this system, and how was this pressure controlled?

I used to know, but the old grey cells are rapidly becoming oxidised!

I'd love to recall these little bits of information. I wish I'd never thrown all my notebooks into the Bay of Biscay, on my final trip home to Pompey. :(auxilliary exhaust systems were designed for maximum efficiency. In some prewar built classes the closed curcuit after supplying evaps ,boiler feed preheating etc it could be utilised at a main engine turbine l.p. stage regulated to that stage pressure of 25p.s.i.

ekd
14-11-2010, 19:18
For me and all ex stokers / Mem's, does anyone have any pictures of life in the boiler and engine rooms of RN ships in the 60's and 70's. These were hot noisey and dangerous places operated by great characters.

H.M.S. Eagle, 1967. Water tending in 'A' boiler room. Good number, I recall, although the guys pulling the levers on the forward catapult accumulator, could give you palpatations at times, with the water level regularly disappearing out the top of the glass in one big rush! (Rapid boiling due to a reduction of pressure...ebullition?)

P.O.M.(E) of our watch was "Jan Westcombe", a great guy. He spent many hours making papier mache models, when cruising. He was a good carver of 'Pussers Hard', but I can't dare to tell you what most of the carvings were!:D;)

I remember we changed a water glass about five times in a watch. Kept bursting, soon as we opened the steam cock, last.
One hell of a din, glass flying everywhere, and nobody knew why.
Then Jan said; are these toughened? "How can you tell?" someone asked. He took one out of the box, and looked through it lengthways, like a telescope.
"They are green coloured at the ends, and they should be amber when toughened!"
You learn something everyday. Some one had provided the wrong glasses. These were ok for other applications, but not for high pressure steam boilers!:o

Destroyerman
14-11-2010, 20:21
Grand story ekd, it's surprising how these dits motivate the grey matter and it all comes flooding back.:rolleyes:

I bet your nerves were raw when all those guage glasses went.:eek:

The replacement ones should have been clearly marked and safely boxed.

Blame the ERUS POM(E).:rolleyes:

NSR
15-11-2010, 09:37
The closed exhaust on Algerines was a bit lower, about 5/7 psi as it was only used in the feed water heater and the boiler/engine circuit was an open feed system. The port and starboard exhaust ranges were led to their respective LPs by the LP outlet into the condenser. The conection was through a crown valve which was a large valve with a piston to move it, in turn regulated by a small spring loaded pilot valve set to the required range pressure. The pilot could be adjusted by a small handwheel to vary the exhaust range pressure as required.

On Pincher the starboard crown valve drain was used as the Kye drain as it gave a nice gentle supply of steam. Somewhere in my ramblings on this site I have included the tale of the kye that got 'sucked back' but I can't locate it at the moment.

Ken

Destroyerman
15-11-2010, 10:15
Reading all these memorable posts makes me wonder if it is at all possible for us "Steamies" to be able to wallow in a familiar environment somewhere.

If only the likes of HMS BELFAST, HMS CAVALIER or others were able to flash up for a commemoration day and we could all don the overalls, pocket the wheelspanners and torch, (right angled, inspection for the use of) and spend a nostalgic afternoon watch down below.

I am fortunate that adjacent to our model boat club at Eastney we have a historic beam engine pumping station which gets flashed up and operational two or three times a year.

Or even a visit to my old 'part of ship' the HMS SULTAN 1930's Super Sentinel Steam lorry. (attached).

Exquisite!:rolleyes:

Sandy.

clevewyn
15-11-2010, 10:39
Reading all these memorable posts makes me wonder if it is at all possible for us "Steamies" to be able to wallow in a familiar environment somewhere.

If only the likes of HMS BELFAST, HMS CAVALIER or others were able to flash up for a commemoration day and we could all don the overalls, pocket the wheelspanners and torch, (right angled, inspection for the use of) and spend a nostalgic afternoon watch down below.

I suspect you could raise a lot of money from the above from moderately priced ticket sales, not to mention souvaneer steaming caps, steaming boots, sweat rags etc all finished off with a real tot "afore ye go"

Destroyerman
15-11-2010, 15:49
Now there's a thought clevewyn.:rolleyes:

clevewyn
15-11-2010, 17:17
I wouldn`t think about it too long elf n safety would never permit such a dangerous event.

NSR
15-11-2010, 17:39
Torch, right angled, for the use of - hangs at the side of the workbench against the times when I have to grovel underneath to find something that I have dropped. It's the getting back up that not so easy these days.

We are lucky in this area as we can get our fix of steam when Clay Mills Pumping Station has a 'steaming day'. It is open for visitors on Thursdays and Saturdays and is 'in steam' on about seven or eight times a year. For those interested it is well worth a visit as it has two engine houses set either side of the boiler house, each with two Woolf compound beam engines built by Grimson & Co in 1885. The boiler house has five boilers and auxiliary equipment. On Friday, the President of the Institution of Mechanical Engineers visited the site to present the Preservation Society with an Engineering Heritage Award.

Ken

rab.m.
15-11-2010, 19:28
As a J.M.E. on Maidstone was given the job of re-packing No1 boiler gauge glasses.Lovingly cut packing rings, equal lengths, perfectly straight cuts placed top and bottom in a lovely straight line boiler flashed.:eek::eek::eek:
Rab.

johnny07
23-02-2011, 18:51
Ivor, there are some really good DVD's of naval instructional films, wartime & peace. They are obtainable from Maritime Books, they have a web site. Most of my photo's come from some of the dozens of books accumulated over several years. My engineering experiences were mostly in ships built during the war, or laid down then & completed after the war. The only "new" ship I had was the survey ship Hecla. The early days were in ships which had Unreliable boiler feed water regulators to maintain boiler water levels,which meant operating feed checks by hand, a bit hair raising when manoeuvering.
It was a great day when one recieved the boiler room watchkeeping certificate, the final test for which was taking charge during a full power trial. Before the advent of chemical treatment of boiler feed water, the boilers were cleaned by removing all the internal gear from the boiler & cleaning every tube internally with a wire brush on the end of a flexible , motor driven cable. External cleaning was done using a saw like implement , about 3ft long & 8" wide, the idea was to saw between all the tubes & then using a type of wire brush to finally clean. When I joined Vanguard , one of the first jobs was boiler cleaning, starting at the top of the funnel, standing on painting stages using long handled stiff bristle brooms, it was high up, no safety gear I can remember. I could go on for ages, but , do I hear Muttered " not again Uncle Albert" , so I will Stop, cease even.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::eek:

Keith dont forget the box of ball bearings.

johnny07
23-02-2011, 18:58
H.M.S. Eagle, 1967. Water tending in 'A' boiler room. Good number, I recall, although the guys pulling the levers on the forward catapult accumulator, could give you palpatations at times, with the water level regularly disappearing out the top of the glass in one big rush! (Rapid boiling due to a reduction of pressure...ebullition?)

P.O.M.(E) of our watch was "Jan Westcombe", a great guy. He spent many hours making papier mache models, when cruising. He was a good carver of 'Pussers Hard', but I can't dare to tell you what most of the carvings were!:D;)

I remember we changed a water glass about five times in a watch. Kept bursting, soon as we opened the steam cock, last.
One hell of a din, glass flying everywhere, and nobody knew why.
Then Jan said; are these toughened? "How can you tell?" someone asked. He took one out of the box, and looked through it lengthways, like a telescope.
"They are green coloured at the ends, and they should be amber when toughened!"
You learn something everyday. Some one had provided the wrong glasses. These were ok for other applications, but not for high pressure steam boilers!:o

Did you leave the top and bottom gland nut slack till the gauge glass had expanded. :confused::confused:

johnny07
23-02-2011, 19:22
HMS HERMES 1959 First Commission.

As a Junior M(E) I was on watch in the port tiller flat (steering gear compartment). Suddenly, every time the gear moved the whole back end of the ship would judder. I 'phoned MCR and within minutes half of the department descended into both tiller flats. Must have been 20 Cdr(E), Lieutenants, Tiffies and Mechs swarming over the steering gear rams. My immediate thought was "I hope I get relieved before this lot needs cleaning up". The ship was stopped for obvious reasons.
Anyway, I concluded that where there was vibration there would be heat, so being a scrawny little stoker I searched under the rams and came across a distinct 'hotspot'. It was a ram guideplate with a massive grease nipple/cup on it, which had never been greased since installation. The phosphor bronze guideplate, (the size of an average coffee table), had warped badly and was causing the massive juddering.
I pointed this out to a nearby Tiffy and he confirmed.
Then he beckoned to Commander (E) saying, "I've found the problem sir, I've found the problem".
Damn cheek! A grotty little junior stoker had found the problem not him!
I learned a lesson that day, don't use intermediaries in an emergency when you can go straight to the top yourself.
I hope that brown nosed Tiffy is reading this right now. You have had to live with it for long enough.:rolleyes:

Destroyerman , It's called thunder stealing, It.s in the ERAs passing out test.

Destroyerman
24-02-2011, 10:23
Destroyerman , It's called thunder stealing, It.s in the ERAs passing out test.

Aha!!

Didn't realise it was in the coursework johnny07. I accept the explanation and am no longer miffed at the incident.:D:rolleyes:

Sandy.

johnny07
24-02-2011, 18:21
When you were throttle watchkeeper in the engine room one of the things that would keep you on your toes was the revolutions. It was;nt just a matter of putting the needle to the required revs, the shaft actually had to be doing the correct revs. If you were steady steaming at 160 revs, at the end of your watch the rev clock had to show 38,400 more revs than at the start of your watch, not one above or one below. As the readings had to go into the engine room log, if your revs were'nt correct your relief would be unhappy as he would have to make the adjustment. Also some navigating officers would come down and have a sneaky look to make sure the revs were correct. Obviously a rev change before the end of the watch was a blessing.

clevewyn
24-02-2011, 19:09
During the night watches when all was quiet our tiffy used to have all his revs worked out in 20 minute figures so he could make minor adjustments to hit the target at the end of the watch.

Any change of speed in the first couple of hours or so had him tearing his hair out and casting doubts on the parentage of the Officer of the Watch up top.

johnny07
25-02-2011, 14:46
During the night watches when all was quiet our tiffy used to have all his revs worked out in 20 minute figures so he could make minor adjustments to hit the target at the end of the watch.

Any change of speed in the first couple of hours or so had him tearing his hair out and casting doubts on the parentage of the Officer of the Watch up top.

This tiffy liked a change of speed, it covered a multitude of sins. :p

E.R.Tiffy
25-02-2011, 19:18
This tiffy liked a change of speed, it covered a multitude of sins. :p

When throttle wk in Nelson we checked the revs every ten minutes i.e if bridge telegraph read 75 it meant 750 any more or less we lost or made them up in the next ten minutes.The ship was often kept on course with the prop speeds and any difference could be serious.

Dreadnought
25-02-2011, 19:31
Guys, could I very very gently ask that this thread doesn't just become full of one line "chat", and stays on the original tarck of an informative thread about boiler and engine rooms.

Cheers

Pash
03-03-2011, 11:28
Here is Boiler Room story:

HMS Grenville Type 15 1969 I was a PO Mech 3 straight from Sultan and given
(as you wouldnt expect Boiler rooms POS)

Any problems it was me!!

We had only been out of refit and finished sea trials we were on our way to Portland.

I got a call about 2245 by the POM(e)forward boiler room the gauge glass Starboard side was blowing at the bottom. He had had to isolate it !

I was told by the COW to get a new glass tube from the stores and fit it it.

Got the tube and new seals checked it was a boiler glass tube, hold it up to the light look down the tube it should be green not yellow !!( Or was that yellow not green ?? I knew what it was then)

Fitted the tube. Blew it through for 5 minutes to warm it. Shouted down from the top plates to de isolate it slowly.
The POM(e) operated the remote levers. The water rose out the top then settled back at half a glass. No leaks.

Looked fine. Just thinking what a great injuneer I was and BANG. :eek:

Steam everywhere and glass tinkling down onto the plates below. Shit. :o


To cut it short. This happened a further 4 times. We were nearly running out of boiler tubes and we were now into the middle watch. The new stoker on the plates had experienced 3 of these large explosions and was looking quite shaken by now.

The POMEM was thinking I was useless jumped up killick stoker which was a reasonable assumption.
Even the chief tiff had been down to make sure I was doing the job correctly satisfied with me he had gone to check stores making sure I had the right spares.

I was ready for the 5th attempt. Went through it all and it held. Then I noticed I hadnt put the toughened glass shield back properly into position so waited a few minutes it seemed ok and I went to put it right.

BANG:eek: :(:o

The glass went everywhere and steam too. Something had made me put my hand up to my face to protect it.

The steam didnt seem to stop it was everywhere so I lean over the rail shouting for them to shut off the valves remotely.

The stoker looked up almost white with shock and seeing me he just fainted !!


I face was covered in blood.:eek::eek:


My right index finger had been sliced open and the blood was all over my face.

I had four stitches in the sick bay more painful than the injury. I was in there along with the young stoker and he looked worse than me.

The gauge glass mountings were found to be out of line and we had to remove the bottom one and realign it !!

Reputation saved.:rolleyes:

Pash
03-03-2011, 11:42
Reading all these memorable posts makes me wonder if it is at all possible for us "Steamies" to be able to wallow in a familiar environment somewhere.

If only the likes of HMS BELFAST, HMS CAVALIER or others were able to flash up for a commemoration day and we could all don the overalls, pocket the wheelspanners and torch, (right angled, inspection for the use of) and spend a nostalgic afternoon watch down below.

I am fortunate that adjacent to our model boat club at Eastney we have a historic beam engine pumping station which gets flashed up and operational two or three times a year.

Or even a visit to my old 'part of ship' the HMS SULTAN 1930's Super Sentinel Steam lorry. (attached).

Exquisite!:rolleyes:

Sandy.


Sandy
I think you hit on something that has surprised me for a number of years. All the steam ships the navy had, over all the years it had them.

All the sea power and conflicts they were involved in all the men
who served on them and the many who died doing it and we have not one real operating example left.

I find it quite sad to see ships like the Belfast and Cavalier tied up as museum pieces when if they want to historical examples they should be doing at least sometimes what they were meant to do.

Get up steam and get to sea.


How hard can it be?:confused:


I once raised this with a group trying to save a frigate that had its last resting place in Egypt. Cant remember the name. I was told raising steam and making it work was out of the question !!:mad:

I am sure like me there are many perfectly capable ex RN engineers and mechanics who would give time and effort worth millions to be able to get one of these ships to work again.

Its a national disgrace.

All who agree say Aye

clevewyn
03-03-2011, 12:40
Aye with knobs on.

Destroyerman
03-03-2011, 13:04
Here is Boiler Room story:

HMS Grenville Type 15 1969 I was a PO Mech 3 straight from Sultan and given
(as you wouldnt expect Boiler rooms POS)

Any problems it was me!!

We had only been out of refit and finished sea trials we were on our way to Portland.

I got a call about 2245 by the POM(e)forward boiler room the gauge glass Starboard side was blowing at the bottom. He had had to isolate it !

I was told by the COW to get a new glass tube from the stores and fit it it.

Got the tube and new seals checked it was a boiler glass tube, hold it up to the light look down the tube it should be green not yellow !!( Or was that yellow not green ?? I knew what it was then)

Fitted the tube. Blew it through for 5 minutes to warm it. Shouted down from the top plates to de isolate it slowly.
The POM(e) operated the remote levers. The water rose out the top then settled back at half a glass. No leaks.

Looked fine. Just thinking what a great injuneer I was and BANG. :eek:

Steam everywhere and glass tinkling down onto the plates below. Shit. :o


To cut it short. This happened a further 4 times. We were nearly running out of boiler tubes and we were now into the middle watch. The new stoker on the plates had experienced 3 of these large explosions and was looking quite shaken by now.

The POMEM was thinking I was useless jumped up killick stoker which was a reasonable assumption.
Even the chief tiff had been down to make sure I was doing the job correctly satisfied with me he had gone to check stores making sure I had the right spares.

I was ready for the 5th attempt. Went through it all and it held. Then I noticed I hadnt put the toughened glass shield back properly into position so waited a few minutes it seemed ok and I went to put it right.

BANG:eek: :(:o

The glass went everywhere and steam too. Something had made me put my hand up to my face to protect it.

The steam didnt seem to stop it was everywhere so I lean over the rail shouting for them to shut off the valves remotely.

The stoker looked up almost white with shock and seeing me he just fainted !!


I face was covered in blood.:eek::eek:


My right index finger had been sliced open and the blood was all over my face.

I had four stitches in the sick bay more painful than the injury. I was in there along with the young stoker and he looked worse than me.

The gauge glass mountings were found to be out of line and we had to remove the bottom one and realign it !!

Reputation saved.:rolleyes:

Scary story Pash.:rolleyes:

When those things blew, everybody knew about it!!

It was a bit of a nightmare as watertender, sitting there watching the things for four hours at a time, meanwhile anticipating a 'blow'.:eek:

Sandy.

oldsalt
03-03-2011, 14:59
Sounds an interesting job. One reason I found for new glasses bursting was if it had been in contact with cold metal prior to fitting.

JackW1208
03-03-2011, 16:17
quote...."My right index finger had been sliced open and the blood was all over my face.

I had four stitches in the sick bay more painful than the injury. I was in there along with the young stoker and he looked worse than me.

The gauge glass mountings were found to be out of line and we had to remove the bottom one and realign it !! unquote




I new I done right by being a sparker!!!!!!

Jack.

:D

Pash
03-03-2011, 17:17
quote...."My right index finger had been sliced open and the blood was all over my face.

I had four stitches in the sick bay more painful than the injury. I was in there along with the young stoker and he looked worse than me.

The gauge glass mountings were found to be out of line and we had to remove the bottom one and realign it !! unquote




I new I done right by being a sparker!!!!!!

Jack.

:D


Absolutely

I was on the London as a CMech at the end of the 70s and we had a particularly hard time trying to meet deadlines laid down by those who had no knowledge of what it takes, over breakdowns etc,.

Infact we had an HP pinion bearing overheat and I had to stop all my departments leave while everyone else on the ship went home.

Enginereing is a mugs game Sir. :(


reply:


Not at my level Chief !!



:mad::mad::mad:

I could have added:

At your level its not engineering.

But I didnt.

:rolleyes:

Pash
03-03-2011, 17:20
Sounds an interesting job. One reason I found for new glasses bursting was if it had been in contact with cold metal prior to fitting.

These came straight out the box.

But your right temerature (or rate of gaining it) was so important.

johnny07
03-03-2011, 18:12
Here is Boiler Room story:

HMS Grenville Type 15 1969 I was a PO Mech 3 straight from Sultan and given
(as you wouldnt expect Boiler rooms POS)

Any problems it was me!!

We had only been out of refit and finished sea trials we were on our way to Portland.

I got a call about 2245 by the POM(e)forward boiler room the gauge glass Starboard side was blowing at the bottom. He had had to isolate it !

I was told by the COW to get a new glass tube from the stores and fit it it.

Got the tube and new seals checked it was a boiler glass tube, hold it up to the light look down the tube it should be green not yellow !!( Or was that yellow not green ?? I knew what it was then)

Fitted the tube. Blew it through for 5 minutes to warm it. Shouted down from the top plates to de isolate it slowly.
The POM(e) operated the remote levers. The water rose out the top then settled back at half a glass. No leaks.

Looked fine. Just thinking what a great injuneer I was and BANG. :eek:

Steam everywhere and glass tinkling down onto the plates below. Shit. :o


To cut it short. This happened a further 4 times. We were nearly running out of boiler tubes and we were now into the middle watch. The new stoker on the plates had experienced 3 of these large explosions and was looking quite shaken by now.

The POMEM was thinking I was useless jumped up killick stoker which was a reasonable assumption.
Even the chief tiff had been down to make sure I was doing the job correctly satisfied with me he had gone to check stores making sure I had the right spares.

I was ready for the 5th attempt. Went through it all and it held. Then I noticed I hadnt put the toughened glass shield back properly into position so waited a few minutes it seemed ok and I went to put it right.

BANG:eek: :(:o

The glass went everywhere and steam too. Something had made me put my hand up to my face to protect it.

The steam didnt seem to stop it was everywhere so I lean over the rail shouting for them to shut off the valves remotely.

The stoker looked up almost white with shock and seeing me he just fainted !!


I face was covered in blood.:eek::eek:


My right index finger had been sliced open and the blood was all over my face.

I had four stitches in the sick bay more painful than the injury. I was in there along with the young stoker and he looked worse than me.

The gauge glass mountings were found to be out of line and we had to remove the bottom one and realign it !!

Reputation saved.:rolleyes:

You warmed the glass for 5 mins, well done but did you leave the top and bottom gland nut slack untill the glass had fully expanded?. Do'nt mean to teach you to suck eggs.

Destroyerman
03-03-2011, 19:12
You warmed the glass for 5 mins, well done but did you leave the top and bottom gland nut slack untill the glass had fully expanded?. Do'nt mean to teach you to suck eggs.

Very interesting, re-learning the intricacies of replacing a gauge glass on a steaming boiler. Can remember this evolution being carried out on HMS TEAZER when I was a young sprayer jockey. On this occasion there were at least two unsuccessful attempts, accompanied by the resounding BANG!!.

One wonders, if the same boiler technology were extant today, to what degree Health and Safety would interfere with the ship's ability to remain under way??

But that's academic, and what do we stokers know about that????:D:D:rolleyes:

Sandy.

Pash
04-03-2011, 19:09
You warmed the glass for 5 mins, well done but did you leave the top and bottom gland nut slack untill the glass had fully expanded?. Do'nt mean to teach you to suck eggs.

Oh yes I did. and your quite right to point it out thats exactly what the Chief Tiff said!!

Just shows you how difficult it was as a Mech 3
:)

johnny07
08-03-2011, 22:01
Oh yes I did. and your quite right to point it out thats exactly what the Chief Tiff said!!

Just shows you how difficult it was as a Mech 3
:)

My ambition
is to be a mechanician
have a locker in the workshop
with the tiffies. :rolleyes:

oldsalt
09-03-2011, 15:01
My first ship as a Mech.3 was Troubridge & much to my disgust was victualled in the POMEs mess.

johnny07
09-03-2011, 20:00
My first ship as a Mech.3 was Troubridge & much to my disgust was victualled in the POMEs mess.

I know the feeling Keith. I was a 5th class ERA in Bulwark and was victualled in 2B2 POMEs mess and because I was a few months short of being rated petty officer (ERA2) the mess press. made me water down my rum.

Pash
10-03-2011, 15:28
My first ship as a Mech.3 was Troubridge & much to my disgust was victualled in the POMEs mess.


We had a combined POs mess on the Grenville. It was the best mess I have ever been in. Great times. All the Pomems and PO tiffs slept in a little watchkeepers bunk space next to the mess. It used to be the Tiffs mess or part of it.

Very handy at mess socials :p and we had alot of them.:rolleyes:

ivorthediver
12-03-2011, 08:06
Is there anywhere in the UK that has an engine room that you can gain access to .....I Know I'm a sad case ...................

Whenever I have been on a ship of any size I always ask if its possible to look at the engine spaces .....often with bemused looks ............

I went on a diving holiday at Corfu and they had an ex RN MTB which used to take people to Paxos island [hope I spelt that right] and the owner was very accommodating :)

Destroyerman
12-03-2011, 09:45
Is there anywhere in the UK that has an engine room that you can gain access to .....I Know I'm a sad case ...................

Whenever I have been on a ship of any size I always ask if its possible to look at the engine spaces .....often with bemused looks ............

I went on a diving holiday at Corfu and they had an ex RN MTB which used to take people to Paxos island [hope I spelt that right] and the owner was very accommodating :)

HMS WARRIOR Ivor, Portsmouth Dockyard.

The engineroom on there is spacious, gleaming and the double expansion reciprocating engines actually turn! Much, much better than HMS VICTORY's engineroom and vastly superior to that of the MARY ROSE!!;):D

Took my grandson Harry down there and he spotted a large sectional wheelspanner bracketed to one of the bulkheads. When I had fully explained its purpose to him, a lurking guide sidled over and thanked me for explaining its use to Harry. The guide didn't know what the wheelspanner was.:rolleyes:

If you (and Karen) decide to come down for a visit, I will gladly accompany you on a tour of the WARRIOR, by far my most favourite naval attraction in the country. I never miss any opportunity to visit her. (This includes my beloved HMS CAVALIER by the way, a floating museum in Chatham Historic Dockyard and my best draft of all time).:)

Sandy.

ivorthediver
12-03-2011, 19:40
HMS WARRIOR Ivor, Portsmouth Dockyard.

The engineroom on there is spacious, gleaming and the double expansion reciprocating engines actually turn! Much, much better than HMS VICTORY's engineroom and vastly superior to that of the MARY ROSE!!;):D

Took my grandson Harry down there and he spotted a large sectional wheelspanner bracketed to one of the bulkheads. When I had fully explained its purpose to him, a lurking guide sidled over and thanked me for explaining its use to Harry. The guide didn't know what the wheelspanner was.:rolleyes:

If you (and Karen) decide to come down for a visit, I will gladly accompany you on a tour of the WARRIOR, by far my most favourite naval attraction in the country. I never miss any opportunity to visit her. (This includes my beloved HMS CAVALIER by the way, a floating museum in Chatham Historic Dockyard and my best draft of all time).:)

Sandy.

That is so kind of you Sandy and I have already told Karen of your offer which has met with a seal of approval :D

We will certainly take you up on that and give you plenty of warning of our trip down to Portsmouth :):)

Not sure at what stage this will be .......I am just about to start my busy time at work opening private Swimming pools and will be unable to take any time off until end of May...so perhaps we can arrange a date after that ......which would be convenient to you

Kind Regards Ivor

Destroyerman
12-03-2011, 19:46
That is so kind of you Sandy and I have already told Karen of your offer which has met with a seal of approval :D

We will certainly take you up on that and give you plenty of warning of our trip down to Portsmouth :):)

Not sure at what stage this will be .......I am just about to start my busy time at work opening private Swimming pools and will be unable to take any time off until end of May...so perhaps we can arrange a date after that ......which would be convenient to you

Kind Regards Ivor

Fine by me Ivor.

Look forward to meeting you both.:)

Sandy.

ivorthediver
12-03-2011, 19:57
Like wise Sandy ....well thats something to look forward to for us anyway

very grateful indeed :):)

Destroyerman
12-03-2011, 20:15
............... meanwhile moving hastily to the Machinery Control Room of HMS MOHAWK, first commission and in the Persian Gulf (as we knew it at the time).:o

Tribal class frigates had stabilisers fitted. Routine was, after clearing harbour the Commanding Officer would ring down to the MCR and order "Extend the stabilisers". LME of the watch would go down to the stabiliser compartment and extend the stabilisers, confirming to the bridge that the order had been carried out.

When entering harbour, the stabilisers had to be retracted into their housings otherwise they may snag the jetty when coming alongside.

CO rang the MCR and ordered "House the Stabilisers". I replied, in my best Irish accent, "They're foine sir, how's yerself?". After a slight pause came the order "My cabin when you come off watch!"

With great trepidation I made my way to the hallowed cabin, knocked and a stern voice commanded, "Come in".

There stood the Captain with a broad grin on his face saying, "Loved it .....loved it. You want a drink?".

We met 16 years later when he came on board HMS TORQUAY during our spell of Sea Training. He was Flag Officer Sea Training and had never forgotten the incident.:o:D

Sandy.

johnny07
13-03-2011, 14:02
Is there anywhere in the UK that has an engine room that you can gain access to .....I Know I'm a sad case ...................

Whenever I have been on a ship of any size I always ask if its possible to look at the engine spaces .....often with bemused looks ............

I went on a diving holiday at Corfu and they had an ex RN MTB which used to take people to Paxos island [hope I spelt that right] and the owner was very accommodating :)

Ivor, It's a long way to go but I'm sure your can look around Belfast's Engine room, That would be an experience. :)

ivorthediver
13-03-2011, 14:40
Thanks Johnny7 ,

I was under the impression that there was no access to the Engine room on HMS BELFAST ....

Regards Ivor