RN Pre-Dreadnoughts: HMS Lord Nelson & HMS Agamemnon

[The Sailor]

HMS Lord Nelson, built in Britain 1905-08, was something of an oddity.

The Lord Nelson class offered an alternative to the all-big-gun ship. Their objective was to mount as many heavy guns in the secondary armament as was possible on their 16,000-ton displacement. This goal was accomplished by lining the sides of the ship with 9.2" turrets, mounting 10 guns of this calibre in the final design A very heavy anti-torpedo-boat armament of 24 12-pounders was largely carried in a high, armored flying deck above the 9.2" turrets. The 12" Mk X main armament was carried, as usual, in two twin turrets fore and aft of the superstructure.

The Nelsons were 410 feet long and 81 feet in beam -- intentionally kept short to fit existing drydock dimensions. Deep-laden they displaced some 18,000 tons and were able to attain speeds over 27 knots.

Like many of their fellow pre-dreadnoughts, Lord Nelson served principally in the Dardanelles Campaign during WWI. With their huge batteries of large-calibre guns, they were invaluable for shore bombardment. They attacked forts, took out bridges to the Gallipoli Peninsula Lord Nelson served as flagship for the Eastern Mediterranean Fleet after the British Army evacuated Gallipoli in 1916.


Class: Lord Nelson - 2 first class battleships of 1904
Displacement: 16,500 tons
Dimensions: 445 x 79.5 x 26.75 ft.
Machinery: Triple expansion (4 cyl) 2 screws, 16,750ihp = 18.5 knots
Armor: Main belt 9in (amidships), 6-2in (forward), deck 2in, turrets 12in
Armament: 4-12in (2x2), 10-9.2in (4x2+2x1), 15-12pdr guns; 5-18in TT
Complement: 865


Builder: Palmers, Greenock
Laid Down: 18 May 1905
Launched: 4 Sep 1906
Completed: Oct 1908

HMS Lord Nelson was sold for breaking up in November 1920

[Batstiger]

I have had a quick shufty through my pics and have a couple of the Lord Nelson and also some of her sister ship Agamemnon which I might as well display with this thread. The last one of the Agamemnon looks a bit sick as she was being used as a target ship at the time.

Please ignore the first picture of the Agamemnon because it isn't!

Bob.

[Batstiger]

On comparing the spec's of the two ships I see that they were both laid down in the May of 1905. The Agamemnon was completed in the June of 1908at a cost of £1,653,347 and the Lord Nelson was completed in October 1908 at a cost of £1,651,339.
I know that £1,008 was a lot of money in those days, I wonder what the Agamemnon had that the Nelson didn't?

[The Sailor]

Probably nothing Bob. It could have been simply that the ship yard was able to source rolled steel plate cheaper in another tendered batch.

[Harley]

I wonder where you got your speed detail from. The "Lord Nelson's" triple expansion engines would have struggled, with the form of the hull to make her designed 18 knots, let alone 27.

Interesting pictures mind you.

Harley

[The Sailor]

Yes OK Harley, that is a point worth taking up.
It does seem unusual that two speeds are quoted in the details I sourced.
I will look into it further. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Batstiger]

I just came across this pic whilst browsing through my collection. It depicts the changing of the left barrel in"A" turret of the Agamemnon.

[AlZictorini]

I bet the extra cost of building Agamemnon was due to the extravagant fittings in her Wardroom as she was the first one completed.

[Harley]

Now THAT picture of "Agamemnon" having a gun removed is interesting. I'm assuming it's Malta or some such place in the Mediterranean (looks like camouflage on the guns).

Harley

[seaJane]

Thanks for those, everyone.

My mother's father was a gunner aboard Agamemnon in the Dardanelles.

[berry]

G'day all,
Is anyone able to tell me who the Captain was of HMS Lord Nelson during 1916/17.She was the Flag-ship of Vice-Admiral Wemyss to December 1915
and then of Vice Admiral John De Roebeck to june 1916,and later Flag-ship Eastern Mediterranean AEgean,and Black Sea until April 1919.I have his signature but am unable to de-cipher it.
kind regards
Sid

[patroclus]

In January, 1917, it seems to have been Captain R.N. Bax; Flag of Vice-Admiral Thursby.

[berry]

g'day Patroclus,
Robert Nesham Bax 1875-1969 looks spot on.
Many thanks,
Sid

[JarrowDave]

Lord Nelson and Agamemnon were post-dreadnoughts!

JD
:)

[Dreadnought]

Hi JD,

Think I might have to disagree with you on that one. I think it is generally accepted that the Lord Nelson Class (Agamemnon and Lord Nelson), were the last of the Pre-Dreadnought Batlleships

It was the advanced technology of HMS Dreadnought and the subsequent big gun Battleships that defined the previous Battleships “Pre-Dreadnought”, and virtually made them obsolete after Dreadnought was commissioned:

- Increased length to over 500 feet
- Greatly increased primary armament (10 x 12 inch guns arranged in five twin turrets)
- Faster (21-22 knots – first large Battleship to be fitted with quadruple screwed steam turbines)
- Tripod mast providing a vibration free platform aloft for improved range finding and fire control apparatus.

Lord Nelson and Agamemnon were both laid down in May 1905, and not completed until June and October 1908 respectively.

HMS Dreadnought was laid down on the 2nd October 1905 and completed at remarkable speed, being launched the following February, and commissioned on December 2nd 1906.

Further information about Dreadnought can be found here:

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=624&highlight=Dreadnought (http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=624&highlight=Dreadnought)



Postcards of HMS Agamemnon and HMS Lord Nelson from my personal collection

[patroclus]

Hi JD,

Think I might have to disagree with you on that one. I think it is generally accepted that the Lord Nelson Class (Agamemnon and Lord Nelson), were the last of the Pre-Dreadnought Batlleships



LORD NELSON and AGAMEMNON were the last RN pre-dreadnoughts but other countries built such ships later.

[astraltrader]

Of course, it took a few years for Dreadnought to render all other types of Battleship obsolete also they cost more to build.

[VirtualF]

Wasnt the delay in completion due to the fact that the 12inch guns and turrets that were meant for this class were actually diverted for HMS Dreadnought? Im sure that I read something along those lines!


Matt

[tinduck]

Yes, you're right, some of the guns were diverted to Dreadnought to hasten her completion as construction of guns and mountings can take as long as building a ship, the completion of Lord Nelson and Agammemnon was also delayed due to labour troubles

Dave

[qprdave]

Launching of HMS Lord Nelson

Reported in The Times on 5th September 1906

[tim lewin]

Dear Dave, this was the ship that rescued the Russian Royal family at the time of the revolution; originally they were picked up from Yalta in the Marlborough and taken to Malta, after resting in Malta they were brought by the Lord Nelson to Portsmouth and then by special royal train to london.
all best
tim

[qprdave]

Thanks Tim.

It all adds to the history of, in my opinion, these great ships

[astraltrader]

The first picture was taken in 1906 not sure of the date of the second one.

[kronserg]

Great views of last British pre-dreadnought, Terry, thanks!

[qprdave]

Certainly a formidable looking ship in it's day. It's no wonder it sent shivers throughout the world's Navies and got their shipbuilders busy in such a short time.

Although I believe that some navies, possibly Germany? did have some on the blocks, building. We just got ours out first.

Dave

[astraltrader]

A pleasure Manas.

[emason]

Another of HMS Agamemnon.

86978

[seaJane]

I just came across this pic whilst browsing through my collection. It depicts the changing of the left barrel in"A" turret of the Agamemnon.

Batstiger,

Have you any idea, from a closer look at the original, what rank/rate the crew member standing in profile in front of the gun at the left is? He looks uncommonly like my uncle, who in turn resembled his father - whom I never knew, but who was a PO gunner, later CPO, aboard Agamemnon 1916-1922.

[john R Haynes]

For interested people see pictures of my LN model at 1/96 scale on my site portfolio section on www.johnrhaynes.com

[TCC]

I just came across this pic whilst browsing through my collection. It depicts the changing of the left barrel in"A" turret of the Agamemnon.

That brings up an interesting question: do all capital ship turret roofs (rooves?) lift off to aide barrel replacment?

Is this the process to replace the actual inner barrel due to wear?

[Don Boyer]

In response to TCC, turret roofs can be dismantled to change out guns. As to the photo of the gun change-out, the entire gun is being replaced. A worn barrel (from firing) would have to go back to the gun factory to be re-lined, as that involves heating the gun up to remove the liner and put a new one in, if my memory serves me correctly. There may have been other methods of getting the liner out, but I am not sure.

[johnny07]

On comparing the spec's of the two ships I see that they were both laid down in the May of 1905. The Agamemnon was completed in the June of 1908at a cost of £1,653,347 and the Lord Nelson was completed in October 1908 at a cost of £1,651,339.
I know that £1,008 was a lot of money in those days, I wonder what the Agamemnon had that the Nelson didn't?

Inflation,:(

[PMN1]

The Nelsons were 410 feet long and 81 feet in beam -- intentionally kept short to fit existing drydock dimensions.

Wasn't it the beam that was restricted rather than the length to allow them to use Number 9 at Chatham and Number 5 at Devonport?

[patroclus]

Wasn't it the beam that was restricted rather than the length to allow them to use Number 9 at Chatham and Number 5 at Devonport?

It was certainly the beam that was constrained and this was why the centre 9.2" turret on both sides had to be reduced to a single mounting. (Although this may not have been as substantial a loss as might appear as the single mountings had a faster rate of fire than the individual guns in the twins).

[tim lewin]

If you refer back to my posr #21 in this thread on the first page you will see about the arrival of the Russian Imperial family from Malta after their rescue from Yalta at the time of the post-revolution civil war. Given that this rescue, covered quite extensively in the thread about HMS Marlborough, the press of the time should have covered it with pics and articles. Those of you with access to the old press archives might be able to find something that could add to the sum of knowledge on this!
tim

[frankburn]

HMS Lord Nelson, built in Britain 1905-08, was something of an oddity.

The Lord Nelson class offered an alternative to the all-big-gun ship. Their objective was to mount as many heavy guns in the secondary armament as was possible on their 16,000-ton displacement. This goal was accomplished by lining the sides of the ship with 9.2" turrets, mounting 10 guns of this calibre in the final design A very heavy anti-torpedo-boat armament of 24 12-pounders was largely carried in a high, armored flying deck above the 9.2" turrets. The 12" Mk X main armament was carried, as usual, in two twin turrets fore and aft of the superstructure.

The Nelsons were 410 feet long and 81 feet in beam -- intentionally kept short to fit existing drydock dimensions. Deep-laden they displaced some 18,000 tons and were able to attain speeds over 27 knots.

Like many of their fellow pre-dreadnoughts, Lord Nelson served principally in the Dardanelles Campaign during WWI. With their huge batteries of large-calibre guns, they were invaluable for shore bombardment. They attacked forts, took out bridges to the Gallipoli Peninsula Lord Nelson served as flagship for the Eastern Mediterranean Fleet after the British Army evacuated Gallipoli in 1916.


Class: Lord Nelson - 2 first class battleships of 1904
Displacement: 16,500 tons
Dimensions: 445 x 79.5 x 26.75 ft.
Machinery: Triple expansion (4 cyl) 2 screws, 16,750ihp = 18.5 knots
Armor: Main belt 9in (amidships), 6-2in (forward), deck 2in, turrets 12in
Armament: 4-12in (2x2), 10-9.2in (4x2+2x1), 15-12pdr guns; 5-18in TT
Complement: 865


Builder: Palmers, Greenock
Laid Down: 18 May 1905
Launched: 4 Sep 1906
Completed: Oct 1908

HMS Lord Nelson was sold for breaking up in November 1920

Sorry to correct you, but I think you will find Palmers were on the Tyne. Frank Burn