Recommended Naval History Books

[Stan.J]

Not sure about this but I like to know if Shipmates could give Ideas of interesting Naval books which they have read and which they would recommend to others.. I have been re-reading one of mine which I have had for some time now. bought it new in the 90s. "Men of War" great naval leaders of world war two. Edited by Stephen Howarth. with a foreword by Admiral of the Fleet, The Lord Lewin KG.CCB.LVO.DSC. (our Tims Dad.)
I would recommend it to anyone who has a interest in the second world war.
It covers leaders of all the Navys involved. American, British,German Japanese. A good book which tells the warts as well. :)

[romft1945]

Do you remember the post I put up regarding the Trawler Northern gem and her part in all the convoys in WW11 well I have just accquired a book "Coxswain in the Northern Convoys" written by S.A.Kerslake who was posted to the Gem he was also on the convoys PQ17 and QP14 aswell as JW51B half way through and a fantastic account from a man that was there,the book was endorsed by Vice Admiral B.B.Schofiled CB.CBE,
ROM::)

[Kevin Denlay]

Now I have (or should I say “had”) very little interest in WW1 naval battles 'cept the (seemingly) mandatory Jutland related stuff. A few friends of mine then recommend Robert K Massie’s Castles of Steel. And intimidating looking book at about 1000 or so pages, IIRC, so I shied away from it for a while. When I finally had some spare time, I picked it up and thought I’d at least give a chapter of two a read, just to see what everyone who had read it was so enthralled by. Well, it didn’t take long, from the moment I started it I spent every spare minute, and then some not so spare, reading it.

It would go so far as to say it is one of the best, if not the best, books I have read on the war at sea. And I have read and awful lot. It is written on a tuly grand scale and covers all the major naval actions in that war, but links it altogether in one flowing tome, not just chapters on individual actions as it were. And he brings ALL the characters to life, from those at sea, to the 'higher higher' in the Admiralty, to politicians, heads of state, etc etc.

If I had to own just one book (a fate worse than death), although it would be a hard choice as my area of interest is focused squarely on WW11 naval characters and engagements, I think this may be it.

Highly recommended! Almost reads like thriller.

K

[astraltrader]

Couldn`t agree more Kevin - I read my copy last year and it is the best all round primer of the WW1 sea-war IMO.

[Harley]

If you want to read something different, controversial and very interesting I can wholeheartedly recommend "Dreadnought Gunnery at the Battle of Jutland" by John Brooks. Very interesting look at the history of fire-control in the Royal Navy leading up to the battle. Scandal and controversy galore! A paperback copy can be picked up for 20 quid from the publisher.

Harley

[romft1945]

If you want to read something different, controversial and very interesting I can wholeheartedly recommend "Dreadnought Gunnery at the Battle of Jutland" by John Brooks. Very interesting look at the history of fire-control in the Royal Navy leading up to the battle. Scandal and controversy galore! A paperback copy can be picked up for 20 quid from the publisher.

Harley


The cheapest I could find was a hardback from the publisher at £70. that is Routledge,anyone else any ideas this was via Amazon,
ROM

[Harley]

Try Routledge itself...in fact...

http://www.routledge.com/books/Dreadnought-Gunnery-and-the-Battle-of-Jutland-isbn9780415407885

I should mention, to assuage my guilt, that I know the author. But his royalties are minimal to say the least!

Harley

[Stan.J]

My Daughter bought me Massies "Castles of steel" for Fathers Day. As I am going to the Lakes for a week this Saturday I will be taking it with me to read if the rains come down.(Hoping that it stays dry however?) If it is sunny, I think a nice long drink, and sit in the chair outside with the book also sounds a nice idea.!

[astraltrader]

Its a great book Stan. Thoroughly recommended...

[Harley]

I hate to rain on your parade (as the saying goes). The book is a good narrative, but it's filled with daft little errors - ship class names, ranks and things like that being wrong. That might be nit-picking, but in the "Acknowledgements" Massie says that he spent twenty-two years working on the book and its predecessor "Dreadnought". Would it have killed him to get all his facts right after so long?

Speaking of facts, while it is laudable that he cites every single one of the first person accounts he uses, he doesn't source the original material, only the book he lifted it from, which seems exceptionally idle and non-rigorous for a historian. The kicker though is that every single fact he uses in the book, there is not reference;

Having turned randomly to a page of the copy I bought last week - p. 524 we come across the lines "Coastal yachts and motorboats patrolled outside British harbours, but only one in ten was armed with anything larger than a rifle." I'm not a trusting character and I'd like to know how a septuagenarian comes to that conclusion and what he's basing it on. Now if he had quoted someone making that statement, it would be prettily cited. I just can't believe someone would write an 800 page book and not do it properly!

Naturally all the reviews I've seen are gushing to say the least, but in my opinion it's a narrative with delusions of grandeur. Sure it's a good read, but if you want to know more the average reader is going to have to do all the legwork theirselves.

Rant over. I expect far too much from my books nowadays and feel about 100 every time I open one up. How very nice of your daughter to buy you a naval history book, Stan!

Harley

[INVINCIBLE]

Invincible. Here is another author of what might loosely be called Naval Fiction.His name is Patrick Robinson.His main character is an American Admiral called Arnold Morgan.Most of his books have highly improbable plots like the Stealing of a British Upholder class submarine.Providing you realise he is only trying for effect,and don't assume he has inside knowledge,His books are not too bad. Regards Steve.

Steve,
Hi - yes I have read a couple of books by Patrick Robinson but his greatest contribution to naval matters is writing with Admiral Sandy Woodward "One Hundred Days" being Admiral Wooward's account of his experience retaking the Falklands - most highly recommended as a straightforward account of that campaign.

[INVINCIBLE]

Invincible. Here is another author of what might loosely be called Naval Fiction.His name is Patrick Robinson.His main character is an American Admiral called Arnold Morgan.Most of his books have highly improbable plots like the Stealing of a British Upholder class submarine.Providing you realise he is only trying for effect,and don't assume he has inside knowledge,His books are not too bad. Regards Steve.

Steve,

I forgot to upload the excellent cover of Patrick Robinson's and Admiral Woodward's book. It is a good book, though published in 1992 and a fair few books on the Falklands have been published since. Admiral Woodward being a submariner he may have given a few tips to Robinson!

[alanandbren]

Hi Alanandbren.Did you know that "Morning Departure" was very nearly never released? It had been made about the time of the HMS/M TRUCULENT disaster and the producers thought that this film would cause offense.However the Admiralty gave their permission and in the titles sequence it pays tribute to TRUCULENT's crew.Regards Steve.

Steve, yes I did know that Steve, but again thanx, saw the film when it first came out. My mother said to me your not going in one of those things,having lost her brother in boats during the war, little did she know.

[steve roberts]

Hi Invincible. I have read "one hundred days" and found it to be the most truthful of the rush of books that came out after that conflict.The funniest (If you can be funny about a war) was ?Brian O'hanrahans "Don't cry for me sergeant-major! Regards Steve.

[INVINCIBLE]

Hi Invincible. I have read "one hundred days" and found it to be the most truthful of the rush of books that came out after that conflict.The funniest (If you can be funny about a war) was ?Brian O'hanrahans "Don't cry for me sergeant-major! Regards Steve.

Steve,

There was indeed a rush of books after the Falklands campaign followed by many more later. "One Hundred Days" was very good - and as you say- appears to be an honest account. I have many books on the subject but the two, which I think give the best accounts are the late David Brown's book (he was Director of the Naval Historical Branch so had access to much of the official documentation) and Max Hastings book. I recommend both to anybody who is not sure which of the many books to read.

[steve roberts]

Hi Invincible.I have a copy of Davis Browns book.I really do like it as it has a couple of photos of the attack on HMS Plymouth.I have not read the other book,but will endeavour to obtain it from a Very Very good Market Salesman in Gosport who especially looks out for Naval books for me at a very reasonable price.We were talking on the German Submarine thread about the book The U-Boat Century.While not trying to be an agent for the Author I have attached the dust cover of this book.It is well worth getting hold of. Regards Steve.

[INVINCIBLE]

Sorry guys not wishing to be pedantic, but this is supposed to be a thread for Naval fiction.

Why not start a thread up for Naval non-fiction if you want to??

Terry,

You are so right - sorry!
Will start a thread because it is very useful to have the views and recommendations of froum members on the best naval books to read and acquire - saves having to read and buy so many.

[astraltrader]

No trouble my friend. Once you have got it going I will transfer the above posts there. :)

[steve roberts]

Hi Terry.Fully agree with the proposal to have a post on non-fiction,and agree with Invincible on the posts being transferred.Thanks. Regards Steve.

[INVINCIBLE]

There is a vast quantity of books on naval history and sometimes it can be difficult to select the right ones, particularly when short of time. The Admiralty Librarian informed me that the Naval Historical Branch has over 170,000 books on naval history! Members of this forum must have read many of them and it could be helpful if they were able to recommend books for particular aspects of naval history. Having collected books on naval history for many years and also reviewed a lot I have read quite a good selection and can certainly recommend a few. Starting at the beginning of the 20th Century I would suggest Robert Massie’s “Dreadnought”, leading up to WW I, then his “Castles of Steel” covering WW I and “Jutland 1916” for the most important naval battle of that war. Turning next to the 'between the wars' period and then WW II is going to be difficult as there is a huge number of them.

[INVINCIBLE]

No trouble my friend. Once you have got it going I will transfer the above posts there. :)

Terry,

Have opened thread "Recommended Naval History Books", starting off with the beginning of the 20th Century. Thanks very much for proposing to transfer posts from this thread (suggest "97" onwards) to the new thread.
Cheers

[steve roberts]

Hi Invincible.Thanks for starting this thread.I am sure there are so many books out there that will interest our members.I will scan and post some of my own when I get the time.Thanks once again Steve.:)

[steve roberts]

Here are three books on a subject,that those who know me,is close to my heart.
1.SUBMARINES. War beneath the waves.A full History of submarine development from the very early days up to 2001.From the JANE's company,and well worth a read.
2.RUN SILENT.More from the American side,but once again a full history up to 2002.
3.The SUBMARINE BOOK. Once again more American orientated and more of a read than a pictorial reference.
I would recommend all three to collectors.I have not looked at book sites on this type of book,but I should imagine they can be obtained at very low prices. Regards Steve.

[INVINCIBLE]

Here are three books on a subject,that those who know me,is close to my heart.
1.SUBMARINES. War beneath the waves.A full History of submarine development from the very early days up to 2001.From the JANE's company,and well worth a read.
2.RUN SILENT.More from the American side,but once again a full history up to 2002.
3.The SUBMARINE BOOK. Once again more American orientated and more of a read than a pictorial reference.
I would recommend all three to collectors.I have not looked at book sites on this type of book,but I should imagine they can be obtained at very low prices. Regards Steve.

Steve,

Thanks - clearly a submariner! I would add three more recentt submarine books one for the RN ("We come Unseen"), one for the USN ("Blind Man's Bluff") and one Russian ("Rising Tide").

Cheers

[CYLLA]

Here is the book i am reading at the moment......once opened you will not want to put it down.

cylla

[steve roberts]

Hi Cylla.I have read that book and can thoroughly recommend it.Some so & so nicked my copy when I was in Hospital last year.Regards Steve.

[steve roberts]

Hi Invincible.I have read "Blind Man's Bluff",but I must try and get hold of the other two.You will have me scooting off to Amazon Books later on.That will upset 'er in doors,but what the heck,a submarine book I have not read is a must.Regards Steve.:) PS I could probably tell the tales in "We Come Unseen"!!!

[steve roberts]

Hi again Invincible.I have found "We Come Unseen" & "Rising Tide". Very reasonably priced indeed.They are available on Amozon. There is one more book I would like to recomend to every one.It's called " Admirals" by Andrew Lambert and is a short biography of British admirals from Lord Howard of Effingham to A.B. Cunningham. Very well worth a read for reference purposes. Regards Steve.

[INVINCIBLE]

Hi again Invincible.I have found "We Come Unseen" & "Rising Tide". Very reasonably priced indeed.They are available on Amozon. There is one more book I would like to recomend to every one.It's called " Admirals" by Andrew Lambert and is a short biography of British admirals from Lord Howard of Effingham to A.B. Cunningham. Very well worth a read for reference purposes. Regards Steve.

Steve,

Thanks - agree your recommendation. The book was 'remaindered' at £2.99 in various book shops (The Work, Banana etc...). It was, along with "Safeguarding the Nation, the Story of the Modern Royal Navy", nominated for the 2009 Maritime Media award.

My brief review was as follows:

“ADMIRALS” by Andrew Lambert, (published by ‘faber & faber’ at £9.99) (paper back, 492 pages).
“Admirals”, sub titled “The Naval Commanders Who Made Britain Great” is an excellent work by Andrew Lambert, one of our foremost naval historians. Though there have been various books on this subject, such as those by Heathcote and Sweetman, Andrew Lambert follows a different theme showing the contribution of leading admirals to the shaping of the Royal Navy and ultimately Britain’s global pre-eminence. For the Napoleonic era he details Hood and Jervis rather than Nelson and for the Armada period he covers Howard of Effingham rather than Drake. Interestingly he uses Beattie as opposed to Jellicoe for WW I. The final chapter is a first class portrait of Cunningham, though it is followed by a disappointingly short overview in the epilogue. His narrative covers an amazing amount of detail and is a virtual history of the Royal Navy. Nominated for the Mountbatten Literary award it is highly recommended.

[steve roberts]

My thanks to Invincible for his brief description of the last book,I was surprised also that Beatty and not Jellicoe was selected.But I suppose Beatty earned more renown at Jutland,despite his glaring error's.
Here are two more books worth keeping an eye open for.
1.SUBMARINES OF THE WORLD. By Robert Jackson.While not a definitive history of submarines.It has detailed descriptions and drawings of 300 World wide Submarines.It's a handy pocket book size and a handy reference.
2.THE FLEET AIR ARM IN FOCUS.Part1 by CDR D.A.Hobbs RN.A good pictorial history,though not in great depth,of the FAA from the First World War up to the Korean War.It has some very rare and interesting photographs that many of you may not have seen before.Part 2 is also available,though I have not obtained it as yet.
Both books are in paperback format and well worth getting hold of....Regards Steve.

[culverin]

i assume we are only talking fact here
there are dozens of good books & what constitutes good to one person
may be excrutiating to the next - so keeping away from individual ship
or class types top of my pile has to be jutland an analysis of the fighting
by john campbell which is now the standard work on this subject and
should serve as the benchmark by which all should aspire to irrespective
of the era they choose to write about

[steve roberts]

Hi Culverin.I have about four books on the Battle of Jutland,including the one you mention.I agree with you it is very good indeed.One of mine is a translated one by one of Admiral Scheer's Staff Officers,but I would not recommend it.I think the translator sort of got at it,and twisted facts to suit the British accounts.Allowing for that,it is still an interesting read.It helps to understand Scheer's mind set when confronted by the whole Grand Fleet. Regards Steve.

[skipperbob]

From an American naval enthusiast may I recommend "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" by James Hornfischer. The book deals with the incredible fight that Taffy Three's destroyer escorts put up against the Japanese fleet at the battle of Leyte Gulf. Even though you know the outcome it is still an intense and powerful story.

[berry]

G'day All - A really good read re Battle of Jutland/Skagerrakschlacht,from the German perspective-JUTLAND by V.E.TARRANT -fascinating appendix including summary of more important German wireless signals relating to the battle.
regards
Sid

[steve roberts]

Hi Skipperbob & Berry.Thank you foryour recommendations. I have not read either book.I will be bankrupt by the time I have bought the books so far recommended.To drag everyone else down with me I have some more to recommend.
For those that like their history in pictorial form,the following series is well worth a look at or buying.The Series is "The Navy in Focus" it is a pictorial history decade by decade.I only have the four attached,but I'm sure the two decades missing either are or will soon be out.Many regards Steve.

[ltotenby]

Hi Steve - I notice that there are TWO Royal Navy in Focus Books for 1940-1949.. Each one has a different cover photograph. (The other is a destroyer), have you or anyone else any idea if the contents of these books (ie Photographs) are the same, or are they completely different. .. George

[steve roberts]

Hi. They contain different phots in each book.Obviously the navy was much larger then,but even so they only cover selected ships.It would have been an impossible task,and a book as thick As "JANES" to cover the lot.Regards Steve.

[steve roberts]

For those who prefer the smaller ships and not submersibles.There are two more photographic histories of RN ships
1.RN FRIGATES IN FOCUS. this covers the conversions and launch of specific Frigate classes since the Re-introduction of the name into the Navy Listings.
2.RN DESTROYERS IN FOCUS from 1945.This covers nearly uptodate coverage of major classes since 1945.Obviously it would have been to thick a book to be viable and affordable,to cover them from their inception
Regards Steve.

[steve roberts]

For those whose interest lies in carriers,I can recommend the following book.AIRCRAFT CARRIERS the illustrated history.
Covers aircraft carriers from their first design,including float plane carries,up to the modern Nuclear carrier.In no way a definitive history,it has some very good illustrations and is an informative read.
Regards Steve.

[steve roberts]

A couple of more books from my collection I would like to recommend.
Book 1. SUBSMASH. by Alan Gallop. I found the subject matter to be both well written and well researched by the author.He had clearly spent many hours tracking down hard-to-find paperwork relating to the loss of HMS/M AFFRAY. To me it highlighted the intansingence of the RN at the time which eventually resulted in the finding of AFFRAY far from her expected position.A thoroughly good read.
Book 2. SEA WAR 1939-1945.by Janusz Piekalkiewwicz. For those who like their history short and not overburdened with endless facts.It has good cross references to other works and is a handy rough short guide to most events of the war at sea during that period.
Regards Steve.

[scjon]

One of my favorites about a fascinating officer. Also written by a guy who was one of my professors in college. He has written several other splendid books about the Pacific War as well. Sadly Dr. Reynolds passed a couple of years ago though.

[steve roberts]

Remaining on the Pacific side of the war,and in-fact dealing with the first attack on American forces."Pearl Harbour" by H.P.Wilmott,covers the events of December 7 1941.In no way as full as Walter Lords classic " Day of Infamy " it does however reasonably cover the events with a very useful Index for handy reference.There are numerous pictures as well.I did not buy this book,it was bought for me.I don't know if it is still available,but Amazon or ABE books should have it on their lists. I have read it and find it a reasonably good version of the events that occurred on that infamous day.
Regards Steve.

[Don Boyer]

Following up on "On the Warpath," Clark Reynolds also wrote "The Fast Carriers" which is still considered the definitive study of how the United States Navy created and utilized the Fast Carrier Task Force before and during WWII. The book is particularly good at looking at the various "players" in the air power arena in the navy and the politics of creating the world's most powerful weapons system.

Clark was the first to point out the effects that fast carrier task force had on Japanese naval operations once they could deploy more than one or two carriers. Beginning with the raid on Truk Atoll (now Chuuk) on February 17, 1944, the Fast Carrier Task Forces forced the Imperial Japanese navy to withdraw it's fleet units all the way back to Singapore. Without every having directly engaged the main portion of the fleet, the Fast Carriers tossed the Japanese navy out of the Central Pacific and 2000 miles back from the areas that would soon seen amphibious invasions on a scale never seen before. This is a defeat of enormous significance and almost totally overlooked in the battle record of the war because their was no real "action" with the Japanese heavy units. They just got run out of town with their rudders between their legs...

[steve roberts]

Here is another one that was bought for me by 'er in doors.I didn't think I would enjoy it,but I really do recommend it.It's a comprehensive study of the subject in both World Wars.
Regards Steve.

[steve roberts]

Two more books that you may find interesting.
1.SCORPION DOWN. By Ed Offley. Tells the story of the sinking of USS SCORPION,in an unusual manner.Starting with the author interviewing a retired Admiral,who chaired the board of enquiry,and leads on from there.With a surprise presumption and the end.
2.DEATH in the DOLDRUMS.The story of how in 1939,Admiral Donitz,instigated the building of Type IX Cruiser U-Boats.These were for the sole purpose of praying on shipping in the South Atlantic,beyond the then range of British Escorts.
Both are well worth a read.
Regards Steve.

[scjon]

One of the best new books I have read over the last few years is Shattered Sword. It is a great new look at the battle of Midway. Very good treatment of the Japanese side and excellent damage analysis of the IJN Carriers.

[BB-39 USS Arizona]

The Pacific War 1941-1945 by John Costello
John Costello's The Pacific War has established itself as the standard one-volume account of World War II in the Pacific. Never before have the separate stories of fighting in China, Malaya, Burma, the East Indies, the Philippines, New Guinea, the Solomon Islands, and the Aleutians been so brilliantly woven together to provide a clear account of one of the most massive movements of men and arms in history. The complex social, political, and economic causes that underlay the war are here carefully analyzed, impelling the reader to see it as the inevitable conclusion to a series of historical events. And the bloody fighting that indelibly recorded names like Midway and Iwo Jima in the annals of human conflict is described in detail, through its ominous conclusion in the mushroom clouds of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The Imperial Japanese Navy by Paul Dull
The first non-Japanese language battle history of the Imperial Japanese Navy in World War II to recount the war in the Pacific as the Japanese saw and officially recorded it.

How They Won the War in the Pacific by Edwin P. Hoyt
This meticulous study is a concentrated look at Naval Admiral Chester W. Nimitz and his subordinate leaders fighting men under stress and the relationship of fighting admirals to their top leaders and each other. "The Patton of the Pacific," Bull Halsey could win a battle; ascetic and cultivated Raymond Spruance could win a campaign; but Chester W. Nimitz, the quiet but dauntless battler from the banks of the Pedernales River, could win a war. This book shows Admiral Chester W. Nimitz as history will record him the wise, calm tower of strength in adversity and success, the principal architect of victory in the Pacific theatre of World War II.

Goodbye, Darkness: A Memoir of the Pacific War by William Manchester
He looks back at his own early life and offers an unrivaled firsthand account of World War II in the Pacific, of what it looked like, sounded like, smelled like, and, most of all, what it felt like to one who underwent all but the ultimate of its experiences.

Pacific War Diary:1942-1945 by James J. Fahey
Fahey was a 24-year-old garbage-truck driver when he enlisted in the Navy on Oct. 3, 1942, and became a seaman first class on the USS Montpelier. Faheys own view from the USS Montpelier. His diary, originally published in 1963 gives a sailor's-eye view of the events, the officers, and the travails of a war much more often described by statesmen, generals, and historians.
http://www.archive.org/details/pacificwardiary1007004mbp read free on-line.

Japanese Destroyer Captain by Tameichi Hara and Fred Satio
Tameichi Hara's wartime autobiography stands out as one of the best memoirs ever written by a Japanese military leader. Hara was considered a national hero during the war for his daring and successful exploits in 1942 and 1943 as a destroyer captain. When the Japanese Navy turned to suicide attacks in the latter stages of the Pacific War, Hara played two key roles even though he personally taught his men the importance of survival and considered suicide tactics to be inhuman and intolerable.

Samurai! by Saburo Sakai, Fred Saito w/Martin Caidin
Saburo Sakai, who fought American fighter pilots and, with 64 kills, would survive World War II as Japan's greatest living ace. This book traces his experiences from fighter-pilot school to the early Japanese victories; from his 600 mile fight for life (being blinded) from Guadalcanal to his base in Rabaul.

I probably posted more then I should but I had a hard time getting it down to these few books.
bob.

[CGRET]

Here is one my classic's that i have read.

76510

A real eye opener as far the extent of german Uboat operation's in US waters.


Regards
Charles

[steve roberts]

Two more books I would recommend reading.
1. THE DEATH OF THE USS THRESHER.by Norman Polmar.First published in1964,but revised and updated in 2004.Using freshly released information.It is a compelling story of the Greatest ever Submarine Disaster.
2.A TIME TO DIE. By Robert Moore.this book tells in detail the events leading to the loss of the KURSK,the probable cause and the ineptitude of the Russian Authorities in their attempt to rescue survivors and refusing out side help.
Regards Steve.

[Gypsyvannergirl]

Did some research on Ed Offley's book and the concensus seems to be that he didn't tell the truth.

However, someone sead the book Silent Steel by Stephen Johnson, which is also about the USS Scorpion is a much better read.

GVG

[steve roberts]

Hi Corrine.Thank you for that input.I will order "Silent Steel" and see how the two compare.
Many Regards Steve.

[Gypsyvannergirl]

Can you let me know how good it is. After reading the last five posts, I'm going to be ordering, and reading about ten books.

Thanks
GVG

[INVINCIBLE]

Did some research on Ed Offley's book and the concensus seems to be that he didn't tell the truth.

However, someone sead the book Silent Steel by Stephen Johnson, which is also about the USS Scorpion is a much better read.

GVG

GVG,

I quite enjoyed Ed Offley's book - lot of good stuff in it. Will we ever know the full story? Two other books, which throw some light on the SCORPION disaster are 'The Silent War' and 'Naval Accidents' - worth a read.
Perhaps some members of the forum may know more about what really happened to SCORPION.

[steve roberts]

Hi Invincible.Thanks for those two recommendations.It was a toss up to buy the first one or wait until I have read "Silent Steel.Then I can give you & Corrine a fair estimate of both authors explanations.There well may be someone who worked on SOSUS at some time,and may well have seen the SCORPION trace and have a good idea what happened.The Russians said that they sunk her,but who can tell.A SOSUS operator would still be bound by the 100 year rule in this case.I DO know that despite what was said at the board of enquiry into the THRESHER disaster.There was a tape kept of UWC conversations plus a SOSUS trace of her sinking.They used to be a copy at the submarine school at Dolphin,and it was very easy to be able to listen to the tape and see the trace.God alone knows where they are now!
Many Regards Steve.

[INVINCIBLE]

Hi Invincible.Thanks for those two recommendations.It was a toss up to buy the first one or wait until I have read "Silent Steel.Then I can give you & Corrine a fair estimate of both authors explanations.There well may be someone who worked on SOSUS at some time,and may well have seen the SCORPION trace and have a good idea what happened.The Russians said that they sunk her,but who can tell.A SOSUS operator would still be bound by the 100 year rule in this case.I DO know that despite what was said at the board of enquiry into the THRESHER disaster.There was a tape kept of UWC conversations plus a SOSUS trace of her sinking.They used to be a copy at the submarine school at Dolphin,and it was very easy to be able to listen to the tape and see the trace.God alone knows where they are now!
Many Regards Steve.

Steve,

Many thanks would be very interested in anything that you can come up with - fascinating subject and not one that I know much about not being a submariner!! You as an insider will know so much more than the rest of us,

[steve roberts]

I have just finished reading this book.It is a very good account of AE2's adventures and sinking in the Dardanelles.
It is told with trut and respect from both sides,which in it's self is incredible.
It also tells of the hunt for the wreck,dives on it,and possible future salvage.
Regards Steve.

[steve roberts]

I have now read SILENT STEEL by Stephen Johnston.I can now compare it to Ed Offley's Book SCORPION DOWN.
Both are very readable books with the exception of their conclusions.Offley is convinced of a torpedo explosion,where Johnson relates to some kind of accident,not a torpedo explosion.Strangely both use the same seismograph record of the event recorded by the hydroacustic listening station at La Palma in the Canary islands.Johnston clearly states that event one in the signal,does not contain the "Bubble Effect" that would clearly be shown in a torpedo explosion and Johnston gives a more detailed breakdown of each event signal.A copy of this trace is attached.
To conclude,one is a reporters version of events,the other is a scientists conclusion.Make of them what you will,but both are worth a read.
Many Regards Steve.

[INVINCIBLE]

I have now read SILENT STEEL by Stephen Johnston.I can now compare it to Ed Offley's Book SCORPION DOWN.
Both are very readable books with the exception of their conclusions.Offley is convinced of a torpedo explosion,where Johnson relates to some kind of accident,not a torpedo explosion.Strangely both use the same seismograph record of the event recorded by the hydroacustic listening station at La Palma in the Canary islands.Johnston clearly states that event one in the signal,does not contain the "Bubble Effect" that would clearly be shown in a torpedo explosion and Johnston gives a more detailed breakdown of each event signal.A copy of this trace is attached.
To conclude,one is a reporters version of events,the other is a scientists conclusion.Make of them what you will,but both are worth a read.
Many Regards Steve.

Steve,

Many thanks indeed and most interesting. I have not read Silent Steel but had read and enjoyed Scorpion Down. It is a fascinating incident and somebody must know what happened though it is probably very highly classified.

[steve roberts]

Hi Invincible.Yes I agree.Someone must know what really happened.Why would Offley make up the story of a Russian Admiral admitting that they sunk her? As I have stated before,probably,as with the Thresher incident,there must be a complete SOSUS trace.Unfortunately,before the full facts are made public,we will all be long gone,as will the Next of Kin of the Scorpion's crew!
Many Regards Steve.

[astraltrader]

Gentlemen from now on could we please stick to posting the name and title of any recommended books rather than waste resources on the covers.

Many thanks.

[INVINCIBLE]

Gentlemen from now on could we please stick to posting the name and title of any recommended books rather than waste resources on the covers.

Many thanks.

Terry,

Sorry - probably my fault for starting the trend and to make things worse I have just posted a few on another thread!! I do apologise and will try and do better.

[steve roberts]

Hi Gang.I know this thread is for recommending Naval History Books,but can I buck the flow by NOT recommending a book?
The book is THE SILENT WAR by John Pina Craven.It states on the cover that it is the true story of the cold war at sea.RUBBISH,it is a self effacing rendition of how the author thought he won the cold war on his own.It adds no unknown facts to the period,and purely relates to his own work,with little other information.
Sorry for blowing off steam,but I thought members should be warned about buying this book.If you are a "Techie" then borrow it from your library.Don't buy it.
Many Regards Steve.

[astraltrader]

Terry,

Sorry - probably my fault for starting the trend and to make things worse I have just posted a few on another thread!! I do apologise and will try and do better.

Not at all - you have nothing to apologise for.

It was a good idea and if we had a much larger capacity for hosting our pictures then I would not have mentioned it.

As it is we have to reserve our spare capacity for previously unseen warship pictures in the main.

Many thanks.

[culverin]

Which type of Naval warship book has the most appeal to our forum members.
Let us split them into 4 categories for ease, but each can cover any era.
1 - Factual ship narrative, lots to read, histories of ships, tech stuff
2 - Factual pictorial predominantly, lots to look at
3 - Factual about the men, battles and reasons. How a Navy works
4 - Fictional of any type

[John Odom]

All of the above!

[culverin]

I like 1 - 2 - 3.
Crimbo tomorrow and i have brought myself Warship 2010. I have it wrapped pretending it is from the kids.
Just love these Conway annuals, have them all. So much to read and read again with learned writers and researchers frequently giving fantastic insights to subjects which prove to be extremely interesting and unusual. Frequently loads of rare piccys and some fine drawings.
Remember when they started as a quarterly. Those were the days, but so many of the early authors need a medium to communicate to now.
However, the high standards have been maintained.
Unusually.

[INVINCIBLE]

The aim of the thread below was to answer the basic question of which naval books were recommended by members of the forum. The late Steve Roberts contributed a lot and posted quite a few of his recommendations.

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6551

[astraltrader]

A good point my friend so I have now combined the two threads. :)

[peter schofield]

I recall Eric Grove while at Hull University saying: to learn about the Royal Navy in World War 2 purchase a copy of Correlli Barnetts 'Engage the Enemy More Closely' I did and he was correct.

[Glasisch]

The best books about Scapa Flow:

http://thumbnails35.imagebam.com/11332/0ce365113316996.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/0ce365113316996)

exept von Reuter`s and Ruge`s memories.
Regards
Glasich

[terreplein]

An excellent book, that follows up on your conversation, is The Man Who Bought a Navy, by Gerald Bowman. If you can find a copy, that is. It's the story of Ernest Cox, of Cox & Danks, who spent ten or more years salvaging a large chunk of the fleet. Delicate business, raising battleships & battlecruisers.

[Don Boyer]

When I worked at the Arizona Memorial, I was often asked questions by veterans and others as to how the Imperial Japanese navy got itself in the fix it found itself in during WWII. Taking on the British Empire, the Dutch and the United States all at the same time has got to rank as one of the least imaginative decisions made by those in power in Japan.

Unfortuntely, Japan, in a constant state of denial regarding their role in starting World War II in the Pacific as well as their conduct during it, is not a good source for this information, despite the enormous amount of accurate Japanese records that remained after the war.

For those with a serious interest in this subject their are two books essential to understanding the role Japan's navy played in WW II and, just as important, in the years from the Meiji Restoration to the beginning of the war. One of them is not a naval history, but is vital nonetheless because it discusses the rise and fall of the prime mover in Japanese politics during this period -- the Imperial Japanese Army.

The first, is "Kaigun: Strategy, Tactics and Technology in the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1887 - 1941," by David C. Evans and Mark R. Peattie. (Naval Institute Press, Annapolis, Maryland, 1997. ISBN 0-87021-192-7). This is an outstanding work of history who's real value is being based almost entirely on well-translated Japanese records, thus side-stepping the common Japanese tendency to whine about western naval histories being biased because they come from western writers and western historical records. The analysis of the two authors is also thought-provoking to say the least.

The second book, also based on well-translated Japanese records, is "Soldiers of the Sun: The Rise and Fall of the Imperial Japanese Army," by Meirrion and Susie Harries. (Random House, New York, 1991. ISBN 0-394-56935-0.) Although a superb history of the development of the Japanese Army following the Meiji Restoration that ended the rule of the Shogun and of the samurai class, it is directly related to the military politics that the Japanese navy took part in that led directly to war. The rise of the Choshu and Satsuma clan members who chose military careers following the fall of the samurai and who formed the new "bushido" basis for the military and who altered the political scenery to place the military as the true power in the Japanese government is clearly laid out in this book. It is also a book with outstanding analysis of the issues of peace and war in Japan.

Both these books are well above the norm for historical accuracy and analysis. Were I teaching a major college course on the war in the Pacific, these would be required reading and probably the basis for most of the final exam!

For those of you out there with real interest in the subject, these will become grubby, well-worn and annotated volumes on your shelf.

I won't place the covers here because I don't save dust jackets except on old and rare volumes. (Does anybody understand "dust jackets?" They cover the sides of books, and books get dusty on top! :rolleyes:)

[Stan.J]

Looking through this months Warships magazine. I notice quite a good write up of "Chalky" Whites book called " Passport not required: U.S.Volunteers in the Royal Navy 1939-1941" It is published by Naval Institute press at £19.99 in Hardback.. Co-authors Charlotte Hammond Eric Dietrich-Berryman and R.E.White.
Regards Stan

[Don Boyer]

Here's a list of good naval history reading. A few go beyond naval history, but focus on naval issues or issues affecting naval operations in wartime. My top three out of this list would be O'Kane's "Clear the Bridge" and "Wahoo" and Edward Stafford's "The Big E." The latter is a real classic, one of the best books on the Pacific War from the early years of post-war histories. Okane's books are the best on the Pacific submarine war, bar none in my opinion.

I culled these from the list of my books I keep to use as bibliographies for articles I occasionally write. converting to a .pdf kicked the format around a bit, but it came out OK.

[jainso31]

For a fairly astringent view of the Royal Navy in WW2; I recommend Corelli
Barnett's "Engage the the Enemy More Closely" (London 1991).It has helped
me appreciably; to understand the Royal Navy's more than difficult role- especially in the first half of the War.

jainso31

[David Verghese]

For a fairly astringent view of the Royal Navy in WW2; I recommend Corelli
Barnett's "Engage the the Enemy More Closely" (London 1991).It has helped
me appreciably; to understand the Royal Navy's more than difficult role- especially in the first half of the War.

jainso31

I would echo this book recommendation. This large work is very well researched and draws upon Corelli Barnett's great finesse as a military historian as he applies his wares to matters naval. His analytical style allows him to be critical in a fair and measured way,where necessary, of pre-war political decisions, the Prime Minister and the Air Staff. At the moment I use the book for reference (I find the ADM files and narrative pieces useful) but, when time permits, I look forward to reading the book from beginning to end.

David

[Stan.J]

We have just had donated to our local R.N.A. By a very kind gentleman from Bishop Auckland. Four naval books. I have two of them with me at home, the others are with other members of our branch....The two that I have are "Hitlers Battleships" by Edwin Gray..I am reading that one now..The other is Treaty Cruisers.by Leo Marriot.This about the 1921 Washington Treaty and subsequent treaties of the 30`s.. "Hitlers Battleships" is very interesting...according to the Author Britain missed a couple of good chances to sink a couple of them earlier in the War.. A good read......Thank you Mr. Barker from Bishop Auckland.

[seaJane]

Sweet water and bitter: the ships that stopped the slave trade / by Siân Rees (Vintage paperback, 2010, £9.99)

reviewed here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/mar/21/sweet-water-and-bitter

[jainso31]

For those interested in the USN in WW2,I heartily recommend "Two Ocean War" by S E Morison- available at most 2nd hand bookshops eg AbeBooks
Like Corelli Barnett he pulls no punches and tells it as it was.A must for any WW2 personal library.It is about a kilo in weight and postage could be quite expensive

jainso31

[Don Boyer]

Two Ocean War is a great condensation of the fifteen-volume set of Morison's "US Naval Operations in WWII." The new editions being released of the larger set benefit greatly from new introductions added from renowned contemporary historians that provide new information and correct some of the inevitable oversights of histories written so close to the end of the war and which could not include any details on the code-breaking effort that contributed heavily to American victory. One has to have that code-breaking information to make sense of some of the happenings in the war, and there is no better single source on the Pacific war to date than John Prados "Combined Fleet Decoded," which I consider an absolute must in the field.

[designeraccd]

Even before Morrison's excellent books came out, I remember reading a earlier U.S. book series about the Naval War (WW2), but I don't remember it's name or author! (Older age??)

Does anyone know the books I'm referring to? They were my first exposure to WW2 at sea. I read them in mid to late 50s. If I remember correctly the first volumes were published late in the war, or just postwar? DFO :confused:

[Don Boyer]

DFO, your question has been driving me up the wall. I know there was a series like that which divided the war up into sections, and I think there were three or four volumes total. I know the name of the series and author was mentioned in one of my books, but can't for the life of me track it down with just a point of a finger. Will keep looking as I find time... must be getting old, as I can usually remember a book title and author!

[John Odom]

I just got a copy of "Two Ocean War." My copy is a used paperback in excellent condition, from Amazon, for less than $5, with shipping.

I'll have good reading for a couple of days! Thanks for the recommendation!

[jainso31]

John I've had mine for three weeks now and it is proving invaluable to me.I recommend this book to all who have an interest in the USN in WW2.:cool:

jainso31

[Vince O'Hara]

Even before Morrison's excellent books came out, I remember reading a earlier U.S. book series about the Naval War (WW2), but I don't remember it's name or author! (Older age??)

Does anyone know the books I'm referring to? They were my first exposure to WW2 at sea. I read them in mid to late 50s. If I remember correctly the first volumes were published late in the war, or just postwar? DFO :confused:

You may be thinking of the Battle Report series by Walter Karig, et al
The Atlantic War
Pearl Harbor to Coral Sea
End of an Empire
Victory in the Pacific
And there are others. You can pick up copies very inexpensively online.
Vince

[WGVSr]

You may be thinking of the Battle Report series by Walter Karig, et al
The Atlantic War
Pearl Harbor to Coral Sea
End of an Empire
Victory in the Pacific
And there are others. You can pick up copies very inexpensively online.
Vince

I'd bet you're correct Vince. For some reason I thought there were 5 of them dealing with WWII and one with Korea. I'll have to go find them now as I haven't read the series in some years.
Bill

[Vince O'Hara]

Bill,

Yes, I think there are five. The one I didn't list is The Pacific War, the Middle Phase, or something similar and there is a Korean volume also. The WWII books are products of the mid to late 1940s.

Vince

[Don Boyer]

DFO will be pleased, Vince, I'm sure that's the series I was thinking of as well. I knew I had seen it referenced in something recently and checked some bibliographies and found it in Anthony Tully's new "Battle of Surigao Strait" book, which by the way is a great read with much new information on that battle which has not gotten the "press" of the other phases of the Leyte Gulf operations. The volumes I found were "Pearl Harbor to Coral Sea," Pacific War -- Middle Phase," The End of an Empire," "Victory in the Pacific" and "The Atlantic War." Karig also wrote scripts for the Victory at Sea television series among many other books having nothing to do with the war.

[Vince O'Hara]

Anthony Tully's new "Battle of Surigao Strait" book, which by the way is a great read with much new information on that battle which has not gotten the "press" of the other phases of the Leyte Gulf operations.

Hi Don,

Tully's book is refreshing for the depth of coverage he brings to the Japanese side of things. It's a problem writing about the Pacific War if you don’t read Japanese because there are so few translated books and many of those, like Hara's Japanese Destroyer Captain or Ugaki's diary, while interesting and very useful, have an agenda. There are the USSBS Interrogations and the Japanese Monographs and translations made during the war of captured documents, but beyond that, not much. Commissioning translations is not cheap, as I’m sure Tully can tell you.

On the subject of Leyte Gulf two works I like are Tom Cutler’s Battle of Leyte Gulf and H. P. Willmott’s book of the same name. Cutler’s book is very well written and gives an excellent overview of all three battles. Willmott’s book is a tougher nut to crack, but I love his strong opinions and the depth of his analysis.

Vince

[Don Boyer]

I agree, Vince -- some of the early histories based on Japanese accounts have an "agenda," as was revealed most recently in the case of Mituso Fuchida by Parshall and Tully's "Shattered Sword." There is also the factor that the Japanese language, as used by the old warriors, often has more meaning in what is not said than in what is said, and a lack of any response at all also has meaning. For westerners, a very difficult situation to deal with. A far more subtle factor is that the Japanese language, more so than most, depends far more on facial expressions. body language, tone of voice and other visual and auditory "aids" that the listener/viewer is expected to notice and interpret correctly, requiring one to "have been there" when statements are made in order to really grasp the full meaning of a conversation. It also places the burden of "correct interpretation" on the listener, not the speaker, who can always claim the listener wasn't smart enough to pick up on what was really meant by what was said. These subtleties were lost on many of the post-war interrogators of the Japanese, who understood the language, but not the speakers, and were never a factor in translating and understanding what those officers and men who were interrogated really meant by what they said. Of course, the potential for hanging or long prison sentences colored some interrogations as well at the end of the war. This, of course was much less of a factor later on when it became clear that American interests were no longer directed at anything related to Japanese "war crimes."

The Japanese also have a terrible time calling a spade a spade if such were to cause embarrassment or loss of face to others, especially other of higher rank or status (witness TEPCOs recent PR regarding their nuclear reactors) and of course the whole issue of their responsibility for the war and conduct of that war is a miasma of cultural denial now going on 70 years, with little signs of change. Their rational for this has colored many post-war accounts.

One of the few books from the Japanese viewpoint that comes through in the true colors of the time is the recent translation of Matome Ugaki's diary, "Fading Victory," written during the war with no concept that it would ever see the light of day in an English translation. Ugaki, had he lived, would undoubtedly have refused allowing that document to be released in an American translation

I have not yet gotten to Wilmott's treatment of Leyte Gulf, but I have read other works of his, and he is highly opinionated but, unlike many authors, is very able at backing up those opinions with facts and excellent analysis whether one agrees with him or not. He seems somewhat "bitter" in his writings of late -- I note he is now in America after many years in England and sometimes wonder if there is something to that change.

[jainso31]

I just took delivery of Vincent P O'Hara's "The USN against the Axis:Surface Combat.1941-1945"; and it is eminently suitable for the all, who wish to have clear and concise account of each surface engagement by the USN in WW2.
Written in "near layman's" prose-it is the "goods" for the enquiring student.I wholeheartedly recommend it to all genuine seekers after knowledge of naval surface actions per se.

jainso31

[Vince O'Hara]

jainso31,

Thank you for the good review. It's been my goal to document every naval surface action fought in WWII in some detail and I've been fortunate to have the U.S. Naval Institute publish my books and thus, largely realize that goal. I appreciate hearing from folks who share my interests and I especially like getting new information or having errors corrected.

Vince

[Don Boyer]

I've just had an opportunity to read "Battle of Surigao Strait" by Anthony Tully, one of the author's of the acclaimed "Shattered Sword" on the Midway battle. (Indiana University Press, 2009.)

Like Shattered Sword did for Midway, this new look at the battle of Surigao Strait provides a wealth of new information from the Japanese side of the battle either not available before or if available, never looked at. This makes for great reading, as it clears up many "myths" about Japanese actions in that battle, particularly the command relationships between Admirals Nishimura and Shima. It also gives a clearer picture of just what happened to the Japanese forces once they entered battle, with emphasis on the sinking of battleship Fuso, which was NOT "blown in two" by torpedoes and whose two pieces did NOT float about for hours before sinking. (I'd thought that highly unlikely even as a lad, but that was the accepted scenario for years.)

The book suffers from some patchy editing, mis-use of naval terminology and similar irritating glitches, but overall presents an exceptionally detailed look at this action, which has been "glossed over" in many previous works in favor of the far more dramatic actions at Samar and Cape Engano. There are sections of the book where the author seems almost over-anxious to present new analysis or interpretations of known information, to the detriment of the narrative flow, but that would be hard to avoid in taking a fresh look at a battle surrounded by so much mis-information accepted as gospel in the past.

Overall, highly recommended reading for those interested in the Pacific war.

[jainso31]

I am considering "Friend or Foe" by Paul Kemp- a work about "friendly fire" in WW2-would anybody care to give me an appraisal.??
I saw it in the Bibliography of Vincent O'Hara's book about Surface Combat 1941-1945
jainso31

[Don Boyer]

Following up on my post in the Pearl Harbor thread, I have just finished an outstanding book on US-Japan relations leading up to WWII in the Pacific.

Clash: US-Japanese Relations Throughout History. WW Norton and Co. NY, 1997: ISBN 0-393-31837-0 (for the paperback).

This is not a "naval history" book, but what it does is provide one of the best looks at the political, social, economic and diplomatic picture of US-Japanese relations I've ever read beginning with the upheaval to the Tokugawa Shogun's regime brought about by Commodore Perry's visit in 1853. It is comprehensive in it's coverage of "how we got into this mess" before WWII, and continues on into the modern era. Since politics and diplomacy in Japan during the Showa era were so closely tied to the demands and desires of the Imperial Navy and Army, this books provides a good look at how these two political powers jostled for control of Japanese politics, budgets and the "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere."

The book is remarkably well-balanced, pulling no punches in favor of the "US view" -- where the United States failed in economic, political or social issues is as clearly laid out as is the Japanese side, rare in any book.

Discussion of the actual wartime events is of course minimal, as this is not this author's focus or speciality, but it clearly lays out how the Imperial military jockied themselves into slow strangulation no matter what they did militarily or politically, which has great relevance to how the Imperial navy fought -- and lost -- their war in the Pacific.

The book also makes clear how the original Japanese wartime goal -- freeing Asia from the colonialism of the previous era -- was actually accomplished, just without the Japanese being in control, as they had hoped. The ironies of human endeavours, especially the rapacious hunt for markets and profits, is no more clearly laid out than in this book.

[jainso31]

I have recently taken delivery of "Struggle for the Middle Sea"a story of the great navies at war in the Mediterranean 1939-1945 by Vincent O'Hara.
It is a highly detailed,easily readable and completely unbiased account of the sea battles and actions in the Mediterranean; where both sides are finely examined.
This acquisition is invaluable to me as a student of naval warfare; and will be to all such as me,for it's candour and "warts and all" approach.The book is a new HB, has 324 pp and and has a plethora of Tables, Maps and Plates.I Highly Recommend this Book
Bought from AbeBooks at £9 +p&p-it was a Bargain!!!!

jainso31