Battle of Jutland Enquiry

[dibbley]

Hello. I'm new to this site and have already tried to send a msg to Bergamot, as he seems to be knowledgeable about Jutland, but if any one else could see this msg and help that would be great. I am trying to work out if my grandfather was involved somehow in the Jutland incident W W 1. His servicemens book says he was either at Vivid 2 (is that shore base operations) or on the hms DIDO a cruiser. Family members say he was involved somehow but I don't see how. I have looked at all the ships names that were involved and although he served on them before and after Jutland his book says he wasn't on them at the time. What do sailors do at Vivid 1 and 2. He was a Petty Officer. Also I am going to look at downloading some of the ships he sailed on for their voyage logs but haven't a clue which ones to choose.He was on many as he served longer than the 12 yrs. Can any one give me any tips about interesting times to look up in naval history. Time frame 1897- 1922 and onwards as a naval educator at Devonport. My brother suggested Scarpa Flow (wherever that is during the WW1 German manouevres in that area) The naval granfather also did long journeys to Pacific and China Stations just after the turn of the century. (Sorry for my ignorance on all matters naval) and thanking you in advance if any one can help. dibbley:)

[stontamar]

Hi dibbley

Just a point of information before attempting a reply. You mention your grandfather's serviceman's book. Was he Royal Naval Reserve and if so is the book you mention his RV.2 Certificate Book?

If not, which serviceman's book are you refering to?

Also can you please confirm his service number if you have that information?

Regarding your request for tips about interesting times to look up in naval history; you could take any period from July 1588 (Spanish Armada) or earlier through to 6 January 2008 depending on your particular interest. It is all of interest to someone who has an interest in naval history. What tends to happen is that one event, a technical aspect, or period in history, or naval character takes ones interest and then the subject takes over from there. If you study your particular interest with some commitment in time you could find yourself quite knowledgable on all matters naval!

Regards

stontamar

[dibbley]

Hello Stonomar, Thank you for your time. I researched my grandfather for my brother, who has an interest in his naval career. His service record number for the Royal Navy is 186510 Devonport. I got it from the National Archives under the heading of searches for Seaman's Records under the ADM 188/315 Records of the Admiralty. Royal Navy Register of Seaman's service. It doesn't say the words naval reserve or merchant navy anywhere. He began on 2 Nov. 1895 as a B2C, (is that short for boy 2nd category or something.) He would have been 15 nearly 16 years old. Do you happen to know if they needed parents permission to enter at that age. I say this because we think he may have lied about his age on enlistment. I have 2 dates of birth for him one for Jan 29th and one for Mar 29th. Were they very strict about those things do you know back then. I obviously need to find out more about how to decipher his service book. There is a lot of slang and abbreviations I don't understand. I will have to find a book or website explaining such like. I know he was some sort of a naval teacher as he passed his Petty Officer Educational exams but they are nowhere to be found anymore. He got a medal for good conduct and long service that's about all I know. Thank you for your interest. dibbley

[stontamar]

Hi dibbley - it appears that your man was Royal Navy rather then a reservist therefore the reference to serviceman's book is somewhat misleading. What you have is his record of service as transcribed from his Service Certificate.

For those entering under the age of 18 they enlisted as Boys 2nd Class progressing to Boy 1st Class and then on reaching the age of 18 they were given the substantive rate of Ordinary Seaman (Ord) and then progressing through the rates to Able-bodied Seaman (AB), Petty Officer (possible 2nd Class and later 1st class depending on the historical period) and then on to Chief Petty Officer. Some would have reached warrant rank whereas other would not have progressed past Ordinary Seaman depending on qualifications and conduct.

Boys could enlist at the age of 15 and parental approval was necessary but this must be viewed in context with the period and in many cases getting a boy to join the Navy would ease the burden on the family and provide for the boy a stable environment where he would get paid , be housed and receive a good diet. It is quite possible that the boy's date of birth could have been falsified and this, for exampl, was quite a common occurance during the early months of the 1st World War.

Adult service for time served and pension did not start until the boy's 18th birthday, at that time they would have signed on for an initial 12 year period. His service number 186510 indicates that he joined as a seaman or communications rating and the date of November 1895 is consistent with the run of service numbers applied duing that period.


Regarding VIVID I this was the name allocated to the RN barracks at Devonport and VIVID II was one of the accounting bases within Devonport that would have dealt with your Grandfathers administration and pay for part of his service time. The reference to Devoport in connection to his service number identified him as a Devonport rating and under normal procedures his career would have been spent on Devonport home ported ships. This does not mean the ships he servered on could not have operated form ther UK base ports or overseas and as you mention he may have been drafted to a Devonport based ported ship serving on the China Station as some time during his service career..

His service record should give an understanding of the reasons why he was on these two ships books but in general the barracks was, as its name suggests, a naval base organisation for the recruitment and drafting of ratings to HM ships and for holding ratings between sea appointments.

If you send me the digital copy of the document obtained from The National Archive I will see what information can be gleaned from that document.

Regards

stontamar

[dibbley]

Dear Stontamar, Thank you very much for that very useful information. I will send his 2 pages archive report to you in the morning as it is near midnite here and it is stored on an external hard drive we have a storm coming and I better turn off computer. Thank you till tomorrow then ...dibbley

[Batstiger]

Hi Dibbley, this is making an interesting thread! As you can see Stontamar knows his stuff and could run this site on his own but the likes of myself with less knowledge like to chip in occasionally.
Joining in 1895 as a Boy 2nd class ( that's what I did in 1952 ) he may well have gone to HMS Ganges. I am a member of that association and here is a very good page about the history:-

http://www.hmsgangesassoc.org/ship.html

I should be most interested in the documents when you pass them on.

Bob.

[Stan.J]

Hi! Dibbley, In regard to H.M.S.Dido. She was an old Cruiser which during the first world war ws used a a Depot ship. in 1915 the Depot Ship for the 9th Destroyer Flotilla at Harwich and 1918 the 10th Destroyer Flotilla.
Did H.M.S.Dido have another name in Brackets after it. If so it may be that name in brackets was the name of fhe ship Grandfather was serving on.
Ships based from Harwich took part in the battle of Jutland.
Hope that helps. Regards Stan.