The RN and RAN at Gallipoli 1915

[herakles]

Possibly the least successful RN involvement in WW1 was at Gallipoli in 1915. The attack, together with the French fleet up the Dardanelles in March was a complete disaster. It achieved nothing, was hopelessly badly commanded and it caused the Turks to realise British intentions for the Gallipoli peninsula. To the extent that the actual landings on April 25th were thwarted by the intense defences the Turk had mounted in anticipation. To this day, the Turks celebrate March 18th as a great victory. When they defeated the British.

But there is one great and largely unknown success. The role played by submarines, British and Australian. It's a remarkable story especially when one realises that the sub was most under-developed at the time.

Here is an account of it: http://www.anzacsite.gov.au/5environment/submarines/ae2.html
and also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AE2
And this one, which is a pdf file: http://www.submarineinstitute.com/?i=downnews&dl=64

There is another side to the submarine story. The Germans deployed subs at Gallipoli as well and were most successful. British surface ships were torpedoed and sunk and so impressed was Churchill of this threat that he ordered the massive Queen Elizabeth to retire for fear of losing her. This was a tragic loss to those on the ground.

It's hard to believe, but Gen. Hamilton was given only a month and a staff of two, to mount the largest amphibious landing in World history, unsurpassed until D Day 1944. Small wonder that it was hopelessly under-equipped. Virtually no artillery or munitions like hand grenades and only one Division with experience and competence.

British ships provided the main fire power for the ground troops because of the lack of artillery that accompanied the expeditionary force. The only group was a few valiant Indian troops. It is the main reason why the removal of Queen Elizabeth so dismayed the Allied troops. Yet the intense fire power that the fleet provided was of little actual use. The trajectory of the shells was too flat to cause much damage, unlike a conventional artillery piece that provides a shell with a more vertical parabola. To drop a shell into a trench was far more effective than having one crashing into the side.

And the fear that the fleet had of the German subs meant that they had to keep coming into range then retiring again.

[The Sailor]

Good post Richard. Great to see a new member join in. So few do.
Maybe it might have been better if Hamilton hadn't received that "good news" from AE2. We could have done without the so called Anzac legend at Galipoli. It cost too much. What we did on the Western Front earned the title ten times over.
Hamilton could have been allowed to sleep on.

[herakles]

You're right about the cost of Gallipoli. Especially the WA Light Horse at the Nek. It is however not that well known that the British lost more men there than we had men.

And I feel that had we withdrawn after the first day, the casualties would have been enormous.

And there's no doubt of the pivotal role we played in France. Been to Villers Bretaneaux near Arras? Where we turned the tide of the German breakthrough? Victorians paid for the re-building of the school there. Still out in the playground is a large sign that says: "Never Forget Australia". You can buy our national song: Once a jolly swagman ... ..." sung by the kids in French!

And yet today when we go to enter Britain, we have to enter through the Aliens gate.

There's a remarkable VC story from Gallipoli, at V Beach awarded to a sailor in the RN. I'll see if I can find it.

[herakles]

I forgot to add the Lt. Holbrook, commander of the submarine B11, was awarded the VC for his command of her in the Dardanelles. He has a town named after him - Holbrook in New South Wales.

[The Sailor]

Mighty clever piece of work

A further exerpt from the deeds of B-11

On the morning of Sunday 13 December 1915, the American Vice-Consul at Çannakale, Mr C Van Engert, an expert oarsman, rowed himself to a spot just up from the great fortress of Kilitbahir whose guns guarded the Narrows on the Gallipoli side of the straits. He was enjoying the winter sunshine when a huge explosion occurred. Looking down the straits he witnessed, in Sarisiglar Bay below Çannakale, the last moments of the old Turkish battleship Mesudiye. The warship had been anchored off a minefield as part of the defences against British warships that might have tried to penetrate this far into the Dardanelles. Now Engert saw the Mesudiye enveloped in a great cloud of smoke and shells from its guns landing in the calm water between it and Kepez Point. Then the battleship fell over to port and turned completely upside down in the water. Black shapes, members of the crew, were swarming all over the hull and Engert rowed rapidly towards the wreck to help. In his report on the sinking to his government, Engert quoted the German Vice-Admiral Merten, in charge of the Dardanelles defences, to the effect that the sinking of the Mesudiye had been ‘brilliant’, ‘daring’ and a ‘mighty clever piece of work’. The battleship had been attacked and sunk by a torpedo from His Majesty’s Submarine B11.

From Germanton to Holbrook An explaination of the town in Australia that Richard mentioned.

The story of the B11 would have been incidental to Australian experience of Gallipoli were it not for the patriotic fervour that gripped Australia in 1914 and 1915. It was a particularly difficult time for German-born residents of the Commonwealth, many of whom where interned in special camps. A number of small towns around Australia even changed their names in line with their anti-German feeling and so it was that Germanton, on the Hume Highway north of Albury in New South Wales, became Holbrook. Everyone in the British Empire and Dominions had heard of Lieutenant Holbrook VC and his daring feat in the Dardanelles. The first meeting of the new Holbrook Town Council was held on 24 August 1915. Holbrook himself paid a number of visits to the town during his life and a few years after his death in 1976 his wife donated his medals to the town.


The photo below shows Lt Norman Holbrook on the deck of the submarine depot ship Adamant

[Batstiger]

A couple more pics for you Herk.

Bob.

[herakles]

Thanks Bob. Appreciate that.

[GeeBee]

One of the reasons that I have joined this forum is to help with researching my family history and I find the mention of AE2 and the pics interesting, as a crewman aboard the AE2 was an A E Knaggs. He is a distant relative of my grandmother on my father's side.
There is an account of his trip on this site
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jeffery.knaggs/submarine.html as well as other pictures that members may be interested in.

[herakles]

A most interesting site GB. And some excellent photos. Thanks for posting it.

A lot could be written about POW's in Turkish hands, none of it flattering. They owe a debt to the American Consul (Ambassador??) that their lives weren't even worse.

[GeeBee]

A most interesting site GB. And some excellent photos. Thanks for posting it.

A lot could be written about POW's in Turkish hands, none of it flattering. They owe a debt to the American Consul (Ambassador??) that their lives weren't even worse.

A pleasure, as a newbie to the site I don't know if things have been said before, so I might duplicate stuff unknowingly, I hope my transgressions will be forgiven.

I've recently read Stoker's Submarine by Fred and Elizabeth Benchley (Harper Collins 2003), and that book details the AE2 operations and the fate of her crew after capture. I agree that the American Embassy helped enormously, and made their lives less difficult than would otherwise have been the case.

Albert Knaggs ( and others) was re-buried at the Baghdad North Gate Cemetery after the war. I wonder how that site fares these days.

[herakles]

Thanks for the information GB.

Our search facility is quite good if you are worried about duplicating. You must use a minimum of 4 letters.

Seeing as the Gallipoli Peace Park is so well tendered, I'd like to think that the grave site is too. The trouble is that it's getting on to be 100 years ago now.

[GeeBee]

Thanks for the information GB.

Our search facility is quite good if you are worried about duplicating. You must use a minimum of 4 letters.

Seeing as the Gallipoli Peace Park is so well tendered, I'd like to think that the grave site is too. The trouble is that it's getting on to be 100 years ago now.

I assume that the cemetery was established while the region was British controlled, perhaps while it was still Mesopotamia. According to a BBC report in 2003, the site was cared for by the Iraqis, apparently without aid from the War Graves Commission.
A NY Times reporter was there in mid 2006, and spoke of the long grass being cut occasionally, so there is some hope. It would be a difficult place to visit at the best of times, but these days nigh on impossible.

[herakles]

From what I've read, the War Graves in Iraq are generally in a poor state right now. Understandable under the circumstances I guess.

From what you've said, I gather the cemetery in question is a general one and not one restricted to the Glorious Dead.

[GeeBee]

From what I've read, the War Graves in Iraq are generally in a poor state right now. Understandable under the circumstances I guess.

From what you've said, I gather the cemetery in question is a general one and not one restricted to the Glorious Dead.

No, quite to the contrary, it's a full CWGC cemetery
http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_details.aspx?cemetery=57303&mode=1
unfortunately barely accessible these days and according to the CWGC, will be restored when the local situation improves.

I'd like to go there at some stage, but there are many much closer relatives to be investigated first.

[herakles]

It seems the cemetery is uppermost in their minds. That's good.

I had read elsewhere that it wasn't in the best shape. I think some of the British troops have visited it.

Let's hope the misery there is resolved soon and they can get about restoring it again.

My father served there in WW1 - but thankfully he returned.

[ceylon220]

Two British warships that operated in the Dardanelles campaign in 1915,one was the deestroyer RACOON built by Cammell Lairds in 1910, she was at the first landings in Feb 1915, just before she took part in that actin in September she was first on the scene when the troopship Southland was torpedoed,she had 1400 men on board but she was brought back safely to port. The Southland was lost with all hands in January 1918 when she ran aground in a snowstorm on the west coast of Ireland.
The destroyer BASILISK was built by Whites in 1910 and was employed in similar duties as the RACOON in the Dardanelles, sold in November 1921.



If this article is again in the wrong section would some kind person move it to the proper place please. Dave.

[herakles]

Not at all Dave.

In fact I think it's about time someone created a thread about the RN at Gallipoli.

[frankath]

I think I might be a bit late in entereing this thread but I have only just joined. It was interesting reading the comments about the various ships at Gallipoli but no mention was made of HMS GOLIATH. My great uncle was a marine gunner onboard when she was sunk by a Turkish Torpepdo Boat in May 1915 whilst covering the landings.
Over 700 men went down with the ship, including my great uncle and I wondered if the site is now a war grave or is there a site where any of the bodies that were recovered are now buried.

[Wellbran]

My Grandad was a Petty officer on Goliath, and he was a survivor of the sinking. I have 3 pics of him at that time He was supervising some of the landing barges taking troops ashore. As for a war grave well it is notb that long that they have found Her as here>>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4Mj1Ah9qgQ
yes it was a big disaster the whole thing was a rotten idea from start to finish....churchill again..sigh

[culverin]

Slight amendment to # 16 if i may, and slightly off topic.
It was HMS Racoon that was wrecked off the West coast of Ireland on 9 Jan 1918, alas with all crew lost.
Her remains were only discovered fairly recently and amongst the last of all the RN destroyers lost in WW1. Every one is now accounted for.