Help Identify Ship

[Roy M. Stanley II]

B-25 from New Guinea overflew this ship near Finchaven.
Can anyone tell me the class of vessel and what is the significance of the track set in the deck? I thought perhaps to handle something heavy like mines, torpedoes or paravanes.

71969

[Kevin Denlay]

She is the Asashio Class destroyer Arashio and the rails are, I think, repeat think, to allow the reload torpedoes to be maneuvered into the reload storage 'container' positions.

Her TROM can be found here.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/arasho_t.htm

[Roy M. Stanley II]

Many thanks for the reply.
The pictured ship is clearly manned and underway with good speed on 5 March 1943.
Perhaps it is a sistership of the one you cited?

[Kevin Denlay]

My Apologies.

I was too quick on the draw. I should have looked closer at the pic.

And no it is a not a sister ship either, it is a diferent class altogether; I believe actually a Fubuki Class DD, but exactly which one I am not sure offhand. The big air intakes beside the forefunnel confirm an early Fubuki as the later ones did not have those big intakes either side of forefunnel

I will find out though.

Unfortunately the pic you posted is mislabelled as Arashio in the book Ship Strike Pacific (page 77), but it is obviously not. And I knew Arashio was lost 'near' Fincshafen as it were, so I quickly put 2 and 2 together, and got 5!:eek:

PS. What is the source of your photo? And does it state photo taken on 5th?

[Kevin Denlay]

OK, back again.

Seeing as I am always a glutton for punishment I’ll stick my neck out, having used my very very limited Japanese language skills in the interim, and say it is Shirayuki, a Fubuki Class DD sunk 3.3.43 in Bismarck Sea ‘near’ Finschafen. At least that’s what your pic is captioned as in a Japanese language magazine on Fubuki Class DD’s, but hey I was wrong before………………………..

TROM at http://www.combinedfleet.com/shiray_t.htm

I have however double checked with a real IJN expert, so let’s see how I fare this time when he replies to my email.

[Roy M. Stanley II]

Appreciate the help. The photo is indeed from 5 March 43, I have it from retired DoD ONI files. Taking org was 89Bomb Sq, 3Bomb Group.
Do I understand that you have seen the photo in a Japanese magazine?
I came to the same conclusion about Arashio, mainly because of the manned light gun just behind the aft stack. I see four or five men around the gun but some may just be hiding there. The slightly assymetrical positioning of life boats is interesting. I finally figured out that the slightly diagonal object at the bottom is the aft mast--meaning there is only the gun position and a torpedo launcher between the aft stack and aft mast.
Don't know if any of that helps.

[Kevin Denlay]

Do I understand that you have seen the photo in a Japanese magazine?.

Yes, Maru Special 1976, Issue 7, page ?. A Japanese language series of wonderful photographic magazine now out of print.

Here is the text for the caption for that image, if anyone here can read Japanese maybe they can do a better job than me translating.

And damn, we will ID this sucker eventually!

Accordingly, could it be Uranami, another Fubuki???

http://www.combinedfleet.com/uranam_t.htm

If that ain't her, I have had my three strikes so I am O U T!

[Kevin Denlay]

Ok, finally, we got it right!

To quote my very learned IJN historian friends email reply;

"........That is the Uranami one. MacAulay's Bismarck Sea book even identifies the plane and pilot taking the photograph, as A-20 flown by Captain Bill Beck.

Looks like they (i.e. Maru Special) got it wrong, and understandably. Its a Fubuki-class destroyer, which means has to be Shirayuki or Uranami. However, Lex MacAulay's "Battle of the Bismarck Sea" book shows that the photograph was taken after Shiraukyi's stern magazine exploded, and shows how it is Beck's plane flying over Uranami. "

Phew, thank goodness, as I was already on my way to the dugout!

[Kevin Denlay]

Hey, so much for me ‘being right’.:mad:

Looks like I might be in the dugout yet!

Upon digging through some more Japanese language books I found a photo of Uranami (see below) and she does not have those big intakes as we see beside the forefunnel in your pic Roy, and as we see in the other couple of images i posted above of early Fubuki's.

And I also found other photos of 'your pic' labelled as Shirayuki, the one below from Japanese Warships of WWII by A J Watts.

So in this game of musical DD’s I am playing with myself I am back to square one. :confused:

Hopefully someone will come along who actually knows something about that pic intead of my asinine attempts at ID.

I (almost) give up!

How positive are you Roy that the pic was taken on the 5th and not 3rd though?

[Roy M. Stanley II]

The 89th Bomb Sq indeed flew A-20s.
I have looked at the crude film titling till my eyes hurt--it COULD be 3 March.
I'm satisfied, Kevin.
Are you really a LtCmdr? I want to credit you on the caption in my book (which may never see print).
Atch are two more you may find of interest--both clearly from B-25s7222072219

[astraltrader]

Roy all the ranks shown are purely based on the number of posts each member has submitted! :)

[spruso]

Hi Kevin,

Have seen this photo before and pretty sure it is Shirayuki. The blokes on the IJN site should be able to confirm it.
Cheers
Bruce

[Kevin Denlay]

Hi Kevin, Have seen this photo before and pretty sure it is Shirayuki. The blokes on the IJN site should be able to confirm it.
Cheers Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Yes, after my chopping and changing above, in exasperation I posted over there for confirmation, and they have confirmed Shirayuki, and they are the experts.

http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?topic=8944.0

Unfortunately, my 'learned friend' although well versed in the IJN, got it wrong.:eek:

So yes, it is Shirayuki after all.

I should have stuck to my guns, but Roy’s initial insistence of the date of 5th threw me, and then I lost the plot.;)

.Are you really a LtCmdr? I want to credit you on the caption in my book (which may never see print).]

As Terry said, only on this forum, and after my above performance maybe I should be demoted!:o

And on that note, please do not credit me in your book, I don’t deserve that, just glad to try to help out. You could, if you wanted, credit/reference the above books in the caption : “ ,,,,,,,as per Maru Special #7 and A J Watts Japanese Warships of WWII” which would certainly carry more weight as to the authenticity of the ID.

[Kevin Denlay]

Roy,

Can confirm those rails are for 'trolley’s' for moving the torps around into the tubes and/or reload ‘bins’ when being loaded onboard.

Interesting thread going now over on that J-aircraft link I posted above; about the first pic you posted (Shirakuyi). Seems it has been misidentified in other books besides Ship Strike Pacific.

PS. Those two other aerial photos you posted, they are taken on March 3 / 43 correct? And from same DoD ONI files?

[Roy M. Stanley II]

Yes, I found them in retired ONI files

[Kevin Denlay]

Yes, I found them in retired ONI files


Thanks Roy.

But if so, why do you have one of the JPG's entitled 'nov 43'?

If this is not a typo on your part, then if you look closely at the writing on the print itself it seems to say 'MAR’ not ‘NOV'. Or do you have other info as to why you have it captioned as ‘nov’? Arrow 3 on image below points to what I believe is the letter M and all three letters looks very simaliar to the MAR in the other image you posted at the same time. (I 'think' arrow 1 points to the word 'enemy' and arrow 2 is to the word 'destroyer'.)

And when you say 'retired' files, what does that mean? Are these images online or do you have to physically go and locate/procure them?

By the way, I sent you a PM, did you receive?

Kevin

[Wellbran]

Yes, Maru Special 1976, Issue 7, page ?. A Japanese language series of wonderful photographic magazine now out of print.

Here is the text for the caption for that image, if anyone here can read Japanese maybe they can do a better job than me translating.

And damn, we will ID this sucker eventually!

Accordingly, could it be Uranami, another Fubuki???

http://www.combinedfleet.com/uranam_t.htm

If that ain't her, I have had my three strikes so I am O U T!


Sorry I know this is an old post but was just thinking, the japanese text on this photo is there a way you can copy and paste this to babelfish? Japanese to english, just a thought.

[spruso]

Two more photos of Shirayuki under attack 1943.
Cheers
Bruce

[nornoreast]

[QUOTE=Kevin Denlay;103026]Hey, so much for me ‘being right’.:mad:

Looks like I might be in the dugout yet!

Upon digging through some more Japanese language books I found a photo of Uranami (see below) and she does not have those big intakes as we see beside the forefunnel in your pic Roy, and as we see in the other couple of images i posted above of early Fubuki's.

And I also found other photos of 'your pic' labelled as Shirayuki, the one below from Japanese Warships of WWII by A J Watts.

So in this game of musical DD’s I am playing with myself I am back to square one. :confused:



I can confirm that you are correct and this is a picture of the Shirayuki. I have the exact same picture which states: The Fubuki class were a complete break with previous Japanese destroyers - in size, fighting power and appearance. [shows the picture] Shirayuki is seen here in 1931, showing the distinctive profile of the class [Shizuo Fukui.]
You can find this in an extremely informative book called: Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1869-1945 by Hansgeorg Jentschura, Dieter Jung, Peter Mickel.
Should anyone be interested the isbn is: ISBN 0 85368 151 1
I believe the book is still available and if I find any I will come back and give info on where and what price

[WGVSr]

The sources I looked at label the ship as Shirayuki.

The Jentschura book was available under the US Naval Instutute imprimatur back in the '80s when I bought mine. I don't see it in their current online catalog. Amazon has a few but the prices are truly scary - I know I didn't pay that for my copy.
Bill

[Don Boyer]

Lex McAulay, a well-known former Australian Army officer and military author in his "The Battle of the Bismarck Sea" (St. Martin's Press, New York, 1991) identifies this vessel as DD Uranami, photographed 3 March 1943 from the A-20 flown by CPT Bill Beck of the 89th Squadron flying out of Kila Airfield, Port Moresby. Beck's bombs failed to release.

A cropped version of this same photo appears in this book's photo group between pages 154 and 155. Uranami was the starboard forward escort for the group of transports when the battle started. She was a Fubuki-class destroyer.

Urunami survived this battle and was sunk on 26 October 1944 by US Task Group 77.4.2 70 miles NNE of Iloilo, Panay in the Philippines.

The photo source is stated as "W. Garing," most likely Bill Garing, RAAF, 5th AF HQ. Doubtful he was the actual photographer, but he is listed in the book as one who contributed material for the book from his personal records.

[barryp]

But...a number of sources I've found on the web including every photo I can find indicates that the Uranami had the mushroom shaped air intakes beside the forefunnel, not the vertical ones that the ship in the picture has, e.g.

http://www.ijnyard.com/page/5/#/2009/06/air-intakeshoods-at-the-base-of-the-funnels/

So...

[Don Boyer]

Looking at the photos, there are ventilators on each side of both funnels, the forward set looking a bit larger. None are "mushroom" shaped, and this would figure, as they are the main intakes for the engine/boiler rooms and need to pull in a lot of air. "Mushroom" shaped ventilators that I've seen on ships are smaller, round, and are not main engine room air intakes but rather the ventilation outlet for smaller spaces. In the photo, you are looking "down the throat" of those ventilators instead of from the side. From the limited sources I have, it's an early Fubuki.

Also one has to keep in mind that the ships as they appeared at sea after hurried yard refits or damage repairs and such had a habit of having detail changes of all kinds that cause problems in some cases identifying a vessel and in other cases make one ship stand out from all others. I don't think Uranami falls in this category, though.