Help Identify Landing Boats

[Mike Allard]

Just picked up a set of twenty-three 8x10 photos marked "ARMY LANDING OPERATIONS MAR 20 1943." Of particular interest are the early type landing boats. Despite my best effort, I have not been able to identify the type boats, the location, or the unit. My initial thought was these were early Higgins boats, but the nearest design is the LCP(L). There are, however, clear differences. The boats seen here have a windshield and canvas tarp supported by a frame. Also, the placement of the windshield would cover the two forward gun positions. There was also a variation of the LCP(L) sold to the British, with a windshield, but it too differs. Perhaps a pre-war variant of the early Eureka boat?

Research on the Net suggests the location is the Engineer Amphibian Command training center at Camp Gordon Johnston near Carrabelle, Florida. Camp Gordon Johnston was situated on the Gulf Of Mexico and the beach, trees, and other foliage seen in the photos suggests this setting.

Because I do not yet have the photos in hand, I cannot see if there are additional details as to the identity of the place, unit, and type of boats. With what is posted here, does anyone have a thought as to what type of craft are being used?

Thanks.

[astraltrader]

Welcome to the forum. If you upload some of the better photos when you have them in hand then we might have a chance of helping you with your query.

As it is the pictures you provided are way too small to provide any detail to work on.

[Don Boyer]

For a start on this, I am checking Office of Naval Intelligence publication 226, 7 April 1944, (ONI-226) reproduced as "Allied Landing Craft of World War II" by the US Naval Institute Press in 1985. They neglected to page number the book for whatever reason, but the entry under LCP(L) shows both the British (canopied) and American (open with gun mounts) versions, the former almost identical to the ones in your photo.

Variations in about all aspects of these small craft are to be expected as time passed in the war, as they were easily modifiable, sometimes by direction of the navy or (more likely) by the personal likes and dislikes of those using them. PT boats in WWII were a prime example and also the PGM-31's in Vietnam. There was the standard issue, fresh from the navy, and the actual working vehicle, fresh from having many amenities installed by the crew such as far more guns, extra armour, boom boxes, beer coolers, and walking dictionaries. Vital necessities overlooked by the Navy Department, in their quest to keep costs down.

The reference I mentioned has clear photos of the type in you photo group. Good starting point for further research.

[John O'Callaghan]

Hi Mike! As has been identified the boats are Landing Craft Personnel (Large) or LCP(L). The were one of the early designs by Andrew Higgins of New Orleans.The USN initialy called them 'Higgins' until beauracracy caught up. They were also aquired by the RN where they were also known 'Eureka Craft' and also 'R Boats'.They were the basic design for the later LCP(Ramped) when a ramp was added to improve the landing of troops without them having to jump from the bow with all their weapons and equipment. The next step was widening the ramp further to allow for a small vehicle such as a jeep .This became the LCVP the Landing Craft Vehicle Personnel. A similiar British design was the Landing Craft Assault (LCA). The vertical members on the bow appear to be a modification to allow the boat to be used as a 'push' tug. Either that or they are an improvisd step to assist troops in climbing over the bow. I don't think they were a standard feature so some local initiative make have been used.
Cheers John O'C.

[CGRET]

Hi Mike,

Here is a photo to help.

67721

Regards
Charles

[John O'Callaghan]

Hi Mike! As Don Boyer has said the variation in minor landing craft are endless. Early during ww2 the British developed the LC Assault using their existing landing craft design of which there were only about half a dozen in existance,it was only intended to land troops in a ship to shore operation . They also developed a landing craft to land a tank which became the LC Mechanised mk1 (LCM1).They also acquiried Higgins boats which they initially used for cross Channel raids. The Higgins having a boat like bow was a reletively good sea boat which made them suitable for longish sea raiding particularly when fitted with a windscreen and canopy.However when it came actually putting the troops ashore they were less than ideal with heavily laden troops (carrying loads of 100 pounds or more) needing jump from the bow or climb over the bow of a boat moving in surf in order to reboard .That had always been a problem for ships boats used in landings. The ramp in the LCA and later LCVP allowed troops to land reletively dry, important in cold climates.and to disembark quickly and in some form of tactical order,important if under fire. A ramp also later allowed small craft to carry and land light vehicles and bulkier stores. During 1940-44 a whole alphabet soup or landing craft was designed and modified to suit a host of military needs.Not without some argument between Navies and Armies as to who operated what
Cheers John O'C.

[stanley]

Welcome to the forum. If you upload some of the better photos when you have them in hand then we might have a chance of helping you with your query.

As it is the pictures you provided are way too small to provide any detail to work on.

Hi Terry, just seen the page and would ask if you know if HM LST-215 was in the Med for the Suez episode, also did she have a name, I was QA 2 on one of them but really can't put a name to either of them, I've Lofoten as the other one, thanks for any help, STAN

[astraltrader]

Stanley as far as I know LST-215 was only in service between 1943 and 1946 when she was broken up.

[stanley]

Stanley as far as I know LST-215 was only in service between 1943 and 1946 when she was broken up.

Thanks TERRY, you have now given me a puzzle,I have a photo of me with in the background H.M.LSE (LC) 51,I have no date on it, but it must have been mid 50s when I was in the med,the photo isn't the best i've seen ,i'm just going on the words I've put on, any thoughts? STAN

[astraltrader]

That is indeed a puzzle Stanley as LSE [LC51] was as far as I can establish converted from the former LST 215!! :confused:

[stanley]

That is indeed a puzzle Stanley as LSE [LC51] was as far as I can establish converted from the former LST 215!! :confused:

Hi again Terry, yes it is puzzling!! perhaps if I can get the photo re done it might shed some more light on it, must say i am confused(not that it takes much to do that). I'll let you know what I find, regards STAN:confused::confused::confused:

[acr58]

Just picked up a set of twenty-three 8x10 photos marked "ARMY LANDING OPERATIONS MAR 20 1943." Of particular interest are the early type landing boats. Despite my best effort, I have not been able to identify the type boats, the location, or the unit. My initial thought was these were early Higgins boats, but the nearest design is the LCP(L). There are, however, clear differences. The boats seen here have a windshield and canvas tarp supported by a frame. Also, the placement of the windshield would cover the two forward gun positions. There was also a variation of the LCP(L) sold to the British, with a windshield, but it too differs. Perhaps a pre-war variant of the early Eureka boat?
Because I do not yet have the photos in hand, I cannot see if there are additional details as to the identity of the place, unit, and type of boats. With what is posted here, does anyone have a thought as to what type of craft are being used?

Thanks.

Hello gentlemen. The vessel is a LCP(L) as others have said. It was a vessel used by 11th Amphibious Force at D-Day, commanded by Captain Sabin out of Roseneath, England. I was researching Roseneath when I found this site. Flotilla 11 was a new naval experiment by the Navy to develop gunfire support craft and render close in support for beach forces. 32 of these units were assigned to operation oboe, omaha beach, and 16 where assigned to operation uncle, utah beach. Their function was to transport troop to the beach and lay smoke to cover the troop stuck on the beach. I recently learned from my brother, that dad, a bosuns mate, was coxswain on one of these boats, which is why I am researching the 11th Amphib unit. I have added a picture to clarify the view of the vessel. There are a pair in the davits of the USS Teton, and you can clearly see the forward gun tubs for 50 cal. If you should ever be watching YouTube Victory at Sea, which we grew up on, the Iwo Jima landings show this vessel being used to discharge troop. Thanks for the nice site.