HMS Wellesley

[gardener]

Hi everyone out there,Iam trying to find out about the boat HMS Wellesley for my wife who is researching her uncle Mr George Henry Hill he was an ordinary coder ,we know/think, that she was in Liverpool in 1940,we have found out that there were raids by the germans and several bombs were dropped on the docks. George was killed on 22-11-40 was he a victim of one of these raids ? He is buried in Bootle Cemetry(why?) we cannot find any reference to the boat in Janes ww1 or ww2 . Any help would fill a couple of gaps in the families history....
Many thanks,
gardener...

[stewart mcloughlin]

HMS Wellesley was a 19th century sailing ship so I don't think it was that one.
The site:- http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/18-1900/W/05208.html
state that she was sunk in the Thames in an air raid on 24 September 1940, so who knows?

She was later named the 'Cornwall' and anchored at Purfleet as a training ship for young boys. A sort of half-way workhouse. Good picture, see:-
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?trainingships/trainingships.shtml

She was also in WW2 an 'unofficial' navy training 'ship' for young lads at Blyth iin Northumberland, so I don't think it will be that one. There's also a bit about her at:- http://www.shieldsgazette.com/jarrow-news/My-grandfather-the-hero.3426027.jp

Your wife's uncle is listed killed with two colleagues on this day, but the site
http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1940-11NOV.htm
doesn't say where, but lists them as:-
Wellesley

HILL, George H, Ordinary Coder, P/JX 185055, killed

MOORE, Kevin F, Ordinary Coder, D/JX 225471, DOW

NEWEL, Alec, Ordinary Coder, C/JX 225490, killed

I would try Liverpool's contemporary newspapers at Liverpool Library for further details.

There is reference by a sailor A.W.J. Gardner who transfered to HMS Wellesley iin May/June 1944 in Liverpool, at:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/87/a5709387.shtml

Can't find any pictures of a modern ship of this name, or of reference to a regular 20th c. HMS 'ship' other than Mr. Gardner's and the sailing ship.

Anyone else know?

Stewart McLoughlin

[Batstiger]

I'm afraid I do not know much about this one but it appears that HMS Wellesley was a training depot at Gladstone dock Liverpool and there is mention of it on this site:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/44/a2431144.shtml

and also at this site:-

http://www.wartimememories.co.uk/ships/nigeria.html


Bob.

[stewart mcloughlin]

Been in touch with the Lt. Cmdr. at HMS Eaglet, Liverpool's current RNR base.

Doesn't know anything further, but suggests the following may provide further information.

Naval Historic Branch: 023 927 24917/24995/24327

National Archive: 020 887 63444 or 020 839 25200

Veterans’ Agency: 0800 169 2277 (e-mail help@veteransagency.co.uk

Stewart McLoughlin

[kc]

Only thing I can add is that HMS Wellesley, training base in Liverpool is recorded in Shore Establishments of the Royal Navy as part-destroyed in May 1941. Also states it was at the Royal Southern Hospital.

[stontamar]

HMS WELLSLEY, commissioned 8 May 1940, was located at the Royal Southern Hospital, Caryl Street, Liverpool 8, which had been evacuated in 1939 and turned over to the Admiralty for use as a training establishment. There is reference to it being used for DEMS (for those personnel manning defensively armed merchant ships) training.

It appears that there was an air raid on Liverpol on 22 November 1940 and it is most probable that he was killed as a reult of this raid. Pehaps George Henry Hill was billeted in Bootle and that is where he was killed and then subsequently buried in the military area of that cemetery?

Aparently the east wing of the building was demolished by a bomb during the heavy raids in May 1941 but I can find no other reporte bomb damage to this unit.

HMS WELLSLEY was paid of 31 January 1946 and the building were eventually returned to their former use as a hospital.

Regards

stontamar

[stewart mcloughlin]

An inquiry at the Liverpool Central Library Record Office reveals a bit more:-

"In the Liverpool Echo of 23 November 1940, p3 col 2, there is a brief report which I think is about the incident you mention. It says that 6 sailors were caught in a blast from a bomb that fell 40 feet from them and three were killed. They were blown in a heap and some were blown through the front of a lock-up shop. The bomb fell 15 feet from a street surface shelter but nobody was injured in it. No names are mentioned, of streets or ships or hospitals - perhaps
because of wartime censorship?

If you wanted anything further done by the archivists, a charge, starting at £10 for 1/2 hour would be incurred, or d-i-y in the 2008 City of Culture.

I think that's nearly covered it, but there's always that bit more somewhere. Depends how far you want to go.

Best of luck.

Stewart Mcloughlin

[gardener]

I must thank every one for their replies to the above,
It does appear that Wellesly was a shore establishment after all and was bombed on that date. What a shame to die that way on the mainland.Ithas upset my wife but it has told her something that she didnt know about her family and it has filled the gaps and for this she sends her thanks to you all.
thanks.

gardener.

[stontamar]

Hi gardener - I am sure I speak for all those who reply to questions similar to the one you posted on this web site when I express regret at your wife being upset on receiving information relating to her late uncle that she was not expecting. I am however pleased that she appreciates the information provided and that the question and answers have helped to provide additional details that will, in time, add to her understanding and appreciation of the families history.

It is possible that sensitive information will be uncovered when dealing with family history and it is therefore always the case when working on commission that the client is made aware of this possibility. Unfortunately when replying to requests for information through sites such as World Naval Ships Forum this advice is invariably not given.

Personal records can and do contain information that can be classed as sensitive or that challanges a record that may have been embellished and the circumstances may have been either hidden by the individual or family. In other cases the circumstances relating to a relatives death or injury may be distressing to surviving relatives or may differ to details passed on through the family.

I hope that this explanation helps others to understand that by asking questions the answers may or may not meet all expectations but that the vast majority of answers are given with good intention and in the expectation that, as far as possible, the information imparted is accurate and not misleading or designed to offend.

Regards

stontamar