HMS Queen Mary

[RichardT]

Hello, I have an interest in this site as my Grandfather was one of the nine survivors of HMS Queen Mary. His name was Marshall William Taylor. I have been looking for the official list of survivors but have so far not found one. Does anyone know of one?

[stontamar]

Hi Richard - you could try the following records held by The National Archive:

ADM 137/4808 Battle of Jutland, press and survivors reports, press cuttings, extracts from letters etc: Vol 1 1916

ADM 137/4809 Battle of Jutland, press and survivors reports, press cuttings, extracts from letters etc: Vol 2 1916

It is recorded that 57 officers and 1,209 men serving at Jutland on HMS QUEEN MARY were killed. Two officers and five men were wounded and one officer and one man were subsequently rescued by German destroyers. If this account is correct you are looking to identify nine names as you mention in your question.

One of these may be ALBERT MATTHEW WILLIETS born 30 Oct1898, this information has been previously posted by Jon Williets at tullettowers@tinyworld.co.uk

Another survivor appears to have been Midshipman Jocelyn Storey as he left the following account:

'A heavy shell hit our turret and put the right gun out of action, but killed nobody. Three minutes later as awful explosion took place which smashed up our turret completely. The left gun broke in half and fell into the working chamber and the right one came right back. A cordite fire got going and a lot of the fittings got loose and killed a lot of people.'

Then there was Petty Officer Ernest Francis whose action station was in one of the other turrets:

'Everything in the ship went as quiet as a church, the floor of the turret was bulged up and the guns were absolutely useless. I must mention here that there was not a sign of excitement. One man turned to me and said, "What do you think has happened?" I said, "Steady everyone, I will speak to Mr Ewart." I went back to the cabinet and said, "What do you think has happened, Sir?" He said, "God only knows!" I put my head through the hole in the roof of the turret and I nearly fell through again. The after 4" Battery was smashed right out of all recognition and then I noticed that the ship had an awful list to port. I dropped back inside and told Lieutenant Ewart the state of affairs. He said, "Francis, we can do no more than give them a chance, clear the turret". "Clear the turret!" I called out and out they went. When I got to the ship's side there seemed to be a fair crowd and they did not appear to be very anxious to take to the water. I called out to them, "Come on, you chaps, who's coming for a swim?" Someone answered, "She will float for a long time yet!" But something, I don't pretend to understand what it was, seemed to be urging me to get away, so I clambered up over the slimy bilge keel and fell off into the water, followed I should think by about five more men. struck away from the ship as hard as I could and must have covered nearly 50 yards when there was a big smash. Stopping and looking round the sir seemed to be full of fragments and flying pieces, a large piece seemed to be right above my head and acting on an impulse I dipped under to avoid being struck and stayed under as long as I could and then came on top again. Coming behind me I heard a rush of water, which looked very much like a surf breaking on a beach and I realised it was the suction or backwash from the ship which had just gone. I hardly had time to fill my lungs with air when it was on me. I felt it was no use struggling against it, so I let myself go for a moment or two, then I struck out, but I felt it was a losing game and remarked to myself mentally, "What's the use of struggling � you're done!" and actually eased my efforts to reach the top, when a small voice seemed to say, "Dig out!" I started afresh and something bumped against me. I grasped it and afterwards found it was a large hammock; it undoubtedly pulled me to the top, more dead than alive.'

Taylor, Marshall William Official Number: 295746 Place of Birth: Saint Peters Port Guernsey. DOB 10 May 1882.

Williets, Albert Matthew Official Number: J30165 Place of Birth: Birmingham, Warwickshire. DOB 30 Oct 1898.

Petty Officer francis, Ernest possibly either official number 225159 or 197159.

Hope this helps

Regards

stonatamr

[RichardT]

Thank you so much for your reply. The details are definately of my Grandfather. My father is still alive but unfortunately can only remember a few details as my Grandfathers official documents are missing. Apparently my Grandfather never spoke of his experience but it is known that he was in the water awhile and was blinded by oil for several weeks. Thank you for the contact information. I will certainly keep you posted as I discover more information. Kind regards, Richard.

[stontamar]

Hi Richard – I did not realise your grandfathers official documents are missing. If this is the case a digital copy of his service record can be obtained on line from The National Archive for £3.50 – please see http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=7356329&queryType=1&resultcount=1

Reference Taylor, Marshal William, Official No. 295746, DOB 10 May 1882 Saint Peters Port, Guernsey (ADM188/478) Catalogue Reference 246/917.

If you need any assistance interpreting the records or any entries by all means drop me an e-mail and I will try and help.

Regards

stontamar
carnock@davemallinson.fsnet.co.uk

[John Brown]

Hi Richard

Can't help yet with a survivors list but if you go to this site you will find a casualty list which may be of interest.

Regards....John

http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/jutland/hms_queen_mary_casualty_list_1916.htm

[Ian Sharples]

I am looking for any information regarding my Grandfather Walter Sharples,who was Ch Stoker on H.M.S Queen Mary

[John Brown]

Hi Ian

If you haven't already seen it, you will find your grandfathers entry in the CWGC debt of honour here:

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=3038407

Hope this helps

regards...John

[Batstiger]

Four pictures of HMS Queen Mary.

[David Stewart]

Hi all,

New to this site,

I am starting to research my grandad who went down with his ship at Jutland.

Any photos or information/URL links will be helpful.

[Harley]

What have you got on your grandfather, such as rate or rank, branch &c. Helps us give you some more pertinent information, as there is quite a bit on "Queen Mary".

Regards,
Harley

[The Sailor]

Queen Mary visually was hard to distinguish from the Lion class, but with the secondary armament on a single deck, the centre funnel was rounder than in the Lion class and she had a stern walkway that was lacking in her near sisters. Originally fitted with a pole mast this was later altered to a tripod mast.

Built by Palmers, laid down March 1911, completed March 1912, cost £2,078,491

Size:
Length 698 feet waterline 703 feet 6 inches overall, beam 89 feet, draught 28 feet, displacement 26,780 normal 31,486 tons deep.

Propulsion:
4 shaft Parsons turbines, 75,000 shp, 27.5 knots.

Trials: 83,350 shp = 28.348 knots.

Armour:
9-4in belt, 9in barbettes, 9in turret faces, 2.5-1in decks

Armament:
8 x 13.5in 45cal MK V (4 x 2), 16 x 4in (16 x 1), 4 x 3 pounder, 2 x 21in TT

Comments:
Virtual copy of the Lion class for the following years construction programme. Slightly larger, slightly faster and with minor improvements in armour. Crew 999.


Queen Mary was sunk at the Battle of Jutland. Up until that point she had been firing more accurately than any of the other British battlecruisers maintaining her reputation as the best gunnery ship of the force, mainly owing to being fitted with the most advanced fire control equipment of the force.

[David Stewart]

Thanks for replying so fast... From what I gather my grandad was a stoker not sure what class or rating, his name was David Wilson Scott...service No 67945....anyone in my family who would have known anything are no longer with us,I am last man standing, in the family I grew up with, he is listed in the National archive book in Edinburgh Castle. thats where the trail ends.

[Harley]

From the Roll of Honour for "Queen Mary" as published following the battle...

Scott, D.W. Stoker R.N.R. followed by his number, although it's not a very easily distinguishable "5" at the end.

Harley

[John Brown]

Hi David

On the CWGC 'debt of honour' your grandfather is listed as a stoker but his service number is shown as 6749S rather than 67945 but which one is correct I don't know. He was a member of the Royal Naval Reserve and was aged 30 when he died. His wife was called Helen and she may have re married as her surname is shown as Massie (formerly Scott). Her address is listed as 33 Bridge St, Leith, Edinburgh.

Hope this helps......John

[bob shayler]

Hi David,
Like you I have an interest in HMS Queen Mary as my great uncle, PO Stoker James Shayler was lost at Jutland. Because of this I aquired an excellent publication from 'The Staunton Park Genealogy Centre' in Havant, Hants for less the £10.00 which is devoted to HMS Queen Mary, giving details of the Battle of Jutland plus a crew list. No photo's though.
I have also recently purchased the Jutland memorial medal which I believe was awarded to the families of those who died,
best of luck in your research,
Bob Shayler

[Harley]

I'm piecing some information on "Queen Mary" together for my website, when I'm done I'll post it here.

By the by, the oft-repeated statement about "Queen Mary's" gunnery prowess being due to her FC equipment is a fiction. There was nothing about her gear which would have made her superior to most of the other Grand Fleet capital ships - only training.

Harley

[David Stewart]

Again thanks for all the interest..

My Granny was Helen Margaret Scott then Massie..James Massie was also a seafaring man and he was the skipper of a small coaster type ship that was sunk somewhere off Eyemouth in the first couple of years of WW2, he was affected by fuel oil and never went back to sea again, dying a few months before I was born...so I never knew any of my male grandads.

David Wilson Scott is my genetic granddad I am also working on trying to trace his life before the war and his death, this will take time, but will be well worth it.

I find it sad that our grandparents endured so much, yet stood tall proud..with no real records to pass on it becomes a challenge to put the pieces together.

Again thanks for all the information, should I find anything about HMS Queen Mary, I will be glad to pass all on to you guys.

[bob shayler]

Hi David,
I have attached two images of HMS Queen Mary. These are credited to 'Stephen Cribb' from a 1939 magazine 'The Great War, I Was There' published by the Amalgamated Press Ltd. This issue was mainly devoted to Jutland and included an article from a survivor, Midshipman J.H. Lloyd-Owen.
One image shows the crew practising casualty evacuation drill, the other the Sunday Devine Service held not long before Jutland. There is a third image showing the crew hoisting ammunition aboard in 1914 but it failed upload due to the file size.
Hope you are making progress in your research,
all the best,
Bob Shayler4439

[bob shayler]

4457
Hi David,
Managed to downsize the image. Again, it is attributed to Stephen Cribb from the magazine 'The Great War, I Was There'.
The caption reads:
The Queen Mary had been in service but a few months when the Great War broke out and within a few weeks she had come to grips with the enemy at the battle of Heligoland Bight. This photograph, taken in 1914, shows the scene in the battle-cruiser when shells were being hoisted aboard her ready to be stacked in the magazines.
regards,
Bob

[Stan.J]

Had a problem in downloading pics. But try again?? A picture of the Queen Mary.. The twin 13.5-inch turret on the quarterdeck. The second picture shows however the end of her. She blows up during the first phase on Jutland.

[bob shayler]

4554

4555

4556
Hi David,
Three more images, one showing HMS Queen Mary under fire, an arial view of the Derfflinger, one of the two German Battle-Cruisers which sank Queen Mary, showing damage to her quarter deck and one of Derfflinger in Wilhelmshaven showing the damage close up,
regards,
Bob Shayler

[historydavid]

Hello David,

Your GFs Admiralty death record shows thefollowing:

SCOTT, DAVID W., STOKER, RNR, S 6794, QUEEN MARY, H.M. Battlecruiser, 31-May-16, SHIP LOSS.

Note that his service number is different from the one you gave.

Best wishes
David

[bob shayler]

6036

Hi David,
These are photo's of the Battle of Jutland Medallion which I bought recently from a medal dealer.
I think they were awarded to all bereaved families. There is no name on the medallion but inscribed around the edge on the front are the words:
TO THE GLORIOUS MEMORY OF THOSE WHO FELL THAT DAY.

On the back is inscribed:

MAY 31ST 1916

THE GERMAN FLEET

ATTACKED OF THE COAST OF JUTLAND AND DRIVEN BACK INTO PORT WITH HEAVY LOSSES.
ADMIRAL JOHN JELLICOE COMMANDER IN CHIEF
VICE ADMIRAL SIR DAVID BEATTY COMMANDING BATTLE CRUISER FLEET

regards,
Bob

P.S. Apologies for the quality but cannot seem to do better

[astraltrader]

Bob - I thought I would help with these two images of the Jutland medallion as well as a couple of interesting pictures of the Queen Mary.

[bob shayler]

Thanks very much Terry. Much better than my attempt. Two great photo's as well. Never seen the first one in Shields harbour before,
great stuff,
regards,
Bob

[astraltrader]

A pleasure Bob. It was interesting to read your account of the medallion - which up to then I had not heard of.

[David Stewart]

Hi guys,

Thank you all for all the information and Photos' I have downloaded all of them and are going into the family history I am creating for my own Grandkids.


Again I thank you all for the time and effort you have given in my quest

My waremst regard to you all


David Stewart

[bob shayler]

Hi David,
Good to hear from you again. I can do one more thing for you and take a photo of the panel on the Portsmouth War Memorial commemorating your Grandfather,
regards,
Bob

[Gary Charles]

Bob, the photo you describe as being Queen Mary under fire is normally captioned "Lion with a hit on Q turret". It would indeed be interesting if it was Queen Mary.
cheers Gary.

[mike d]

David,there was a doc which aired on the history channel on this side of the pond (Canada) which went into detail about the Battlecruiser losses at Jutland.
There were several conclusions drawn about possible design flaws and unsafe storage of cordite.
I don't know if any of those thoeries hold water (so to speak) but the interesting thing about this particular show was the underwater video taken of some of the wrecks,including Queen Mary I believe.
Good luck in your search!

[Benbow]

Sad end for a lovely looking ship and her brave crew.

http://www.bobhenneman.info/queenmarywreck.htm

[bob shayler]

Hi Gary,
I scanned the photo from a magazine titled 'I was there' published in the late 30's. I have re-scanned it and included the text. Hope this helps,
regards,
Bob

18935

[Gary Charles]

Hi Bob,
thanks for that. I was just going by the captions in Fawcett and Hooper. My copy is a new reprint and the photographs are not as good as the ones in the original, which I had previously. I know various photographs appear with different captions, so it would be nice to get a ruling on this one.
best wishes Gary.

[John Brown]

Guys

Here's a pic of Queen Mary being launched.......


Gary, just fyi.....

I have seen the damaged gun turret captioned elsewhere also as being that on HMS Lion.


Regards....John

[bob shayler]

Hi Gary,
Thank you for your feed back. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the caption but Dr. Oscar Parkes who was credited with it seems to be well qualified. It would be nice to find out for sure though.

Dr Oscar Parkes, a practising General Medical Practitioner, had served in the Naval Intelligence Division at the British Admiralty during the Great War and when he left the Service in 1920 it was to be editor of Jane’s Fighting Ships, a post he held until 1935.
regards,
Bob

[Harley]

Parkes graduated M.B, Ch.B. from Birmingham University in 1914, then held resident positions the General Hospital, Birmingham. He joined the Royal Navy and later in the war was appointed to the Naval Intelligence Division of the Naval Staff. In 1918 he was appointed to the editorship of "Jane's Fighting Ships", painted a picture of H.M.S. "Incomparable" for "Jacky" Fisher and remained in the Royal Navy until 1920. In 1919 he had been appointed Official Naval Artist and Director of the Naval photographic Section at the nascent Imperial War Museum. From 1920 to 1924 he was consultant neurologist to the Ministry of Pensions. He practised neurology in Knightsbridge until 1943, when he moved to Ringwood and took over a general practice as well as being on the staff of Fordingbridge Hospital for a time. He retired in 1957, moving to Northern Ireland, where he died six months later on 24 June 1958 at the age of 72.

Parkes, while generally well-regarded, is not exactly infallible alas! His "British Battleships" is riddled with annoying and inconsistent hearsay which is a shame, and unlike Jane's Fighting Ships is not easily corrected.

Also, that photograph reproduced is "By Courtesy of...": it doesn't necessarily mean that Parkes was wrong, only that the person who made use of the picture did.

Simon

Sources:Obituary in "The Times", Obituary in the "British Medical Journal" among my files.

[bob shayler]

Thank you for this additional information Simon,
regards,
Bob

[joelle]

Permission to come onboard.........

My name is Joelle (mother of 4 boys).

Family history brings me to this website....HMS Queen Mary. I am interested in Naval history and can be seen frequently watching the History channel on
events but usually they leave me with more questions to ask...so hopefully the questions upon reading the entries on this website will be answered.

Unfortuantely I dont have any photos of my relative who served on the Queen Mary I only found out from a new cousin I found in tracing family tree served on the ship he lied about his age so its all new to me.

But I know I am going to enjoy reading and participating on this website.

:p

[herakles]

You are very welcome here Joelle!

I hope you find plenty to read here. I hope you've noticed that we are an International forum and there are areas devoted to the ships of other nations - such as my own.

So ... enjoy!

[astraltrader]

Welcome to the forum Joelle. I hope you find much of interest.
In the meantime my favourite photo of HMS Queen Mary. [click on thumbnail].

[Batstiger]

Hello Joelle welcome to the forum.
Here are a couple more pictures of the HMS Queen Mary and a little bit of her history.

Regards, Bob.

[historydavid]

Hello Joelle and welcome aboard.

1,269 men died on 31.5.16 when the QUEEN MARY blew up, plus 1 more a week later from wounds.

I have the Admiralty casualty records, so if you don't have details of your relative post his name.

[joelle]

Thank you everybody so much for your kind words......As to the person who died on the Queen Mary his name was Stephen Rickaby I have found the war memorials etc on him. Ralph Rickaby his father was serving with the Tyneside Irish at the same time. My cousin said he lied about his age to join. Thats all I have on him, my cousin is in his 70's a paraplegic so he finds it difficult to use his computer it is voice controlled and it doesnt understand his strong geordie accent. Bless him I have no problem understanding his lovely voice.

With this family history detective work I only found my cousin about three months ago..so a lot of catching up. strange as it seems but he says when he talks to me he feels that he has known me ages.

Well Im off to do the housework and also figure out if I need to build an Ark in the back garden or a submarine..........

[rumrat]

Hi Joelle,
Here's another Geordie link for you, QUEEN MARY Built by Palmers of Jarrow on Tyne Laid down in March 1911 Completed March 1912. Photographed passing the fish Quay at North Shields 1912 on her down the Tyne.

Regards
Dave

[astraltrader]

Stunning picture Dave. I have a new favourite of the Queen Mary now!!

[historydavid]

Joelle, this is the Admiralty casualty listing for your relative:

RICKABY, STEPHEN , A.B., RNVR, TYNESIDE Z 6880, H.M. Battlecruiser QUEEN MARY, 31-May-16, SHIP LOSS.

[joelle]

Thank you Gentleman,

I will pass on the photo to my cousin who will be greatly indebted to you.

Up to Newcastle this weekend I may live elsewhere but my heart is always there.

[TCC]

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4556&d=1206893624

I believ that is LION, it's always been creditted to LION and the ship has more of a compass platform that QM did plus it has a 'shape' where LIONs director platform was on the foremast, QM didn't recieve this... though she has a spotting top where LION had hers.

To me, the ship has the look of the LION.

[tonclass]

I have the same photo, but it has QUEEN MARY written on it ??????????

[TCC]

Rik, if I had a penny for every wrong caption I'd read... :-)

I cite the 'director platform' as proof and that the bridge has 'LIONs' sillouette. The enlarged chart house and compass platform.

[tonclass]

TCC just ignore me, I was looking at the wrong photo DUH !!

[culverin]

20 survived in total, 18 rescued by Petard and Laurel, 2 by Germans.
Midshipmen H.Lhoyd-Owen, P.Deardon, J.Storey, H.Durrant, V.Van Der Byl.
P.O. E.Francis, S.Ford., A/B A.Brand, J.Hutchinson, F.Meads., P.O.Stoker M.Taylor, A.Sherwood., L/Sto H.Hughes, G.Manners, A.Ralph., Stokers F.Smith, A.Edwards, A.Clark., Boy T.May. I do not have the 20th name.
All of their survivals are truly remarkable and came from all parts of the ship, although the majority were from the gun houses and boiler/engine rooms.

[Harley]

This is my list of 21 survivors:

Uninjured

Midshipman Peregrine Robert Dearden (Captured by the Imperial German Navy)
Midshipman John H. Lloyd-Owen
Midshipman Jocelyn Latham Storey
P.O. 1st Cl. Stanley Foster Ford 203681 (Po.)
Sto. P.O. Marshall William Taylor 295746 (Po.)
Sto. 1st Cl. Frank Smith K17778 (Po.)
Ldg. Sto. Herbert Ernest Hughes K6445 (Po.)
Ldg. Sto. George William Manners 308014 (Po.)
Ldg. Sto. Albert Ralph K4 (Po.)
A/B Albert Henry Brand J22156 (Po.)
A/B Frederick William Meads 20095 (Po.)
A/B John Hutchinson J20122 (Po.)
Air Mechanic Wilson R.N.A.S.

Wounded

Midshipman Voltelin St. John Van der Byl
P.O. Ernest Benjamin Francis 178395 (Po.)
Sto. 1st Cl. Arthur Bower Clark K25655 (Po.)
Sto. Albert Edwards 2924T, R.N.R.
A/B Alfred Thomas Sherwood J7221 (Po.)
A/B Ernest Cunnah J20438 (Po.)

Severely Wounded

Midshipman Humphrey Mercer Lancelot Durrant (Died of wounds)
Boy, First Class Thomas Charles May J42494 (Po.)