HMS Renown 1916-1948

[spacegirl_92071]

My grandfather, William Burns, was on the British Renown from 1938 to 1940. this was the last ship he was listed serving on. His service on it ended on the 24th of July, 1940, right before he disappeared forever. Just wondering if anybody knew of him or had any pictures of him, or if anyone knows what happened to him. :confused:
thanks,
Laurie

[stan-the-man]

Request:- My father served on the Renown in 1922 when it was on the "Royal" tour. I have a small momento of that trip in the form of a "Special Ticket" issued to the crew's of the Renown and Durban. My request is, does anyone know where i might be able to find the crews list for that trip or years 1920-1922. I'm trying to make up a history of the family for my grandchildren so any information would be welcome.

[John Brown]

Laurie

Probably unrelated but worth a try....... The CWGC records list a William Edward Burns who died on 22/10/1940 whilst serving with the Royal Naval Patrol Service. He was aged 24 and his wife was named Ester.

Good luck with the search

[duffy]

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER ROBERT DUFFY STOKER, ON H.M.S RENOWN DURING WORLD WAR 2. NOW DECEASED, PUTTING TOGETHER A BOOK OF THE TIME IN THE WAR FOR HIS GRANDCHILDREN CAN ANYBODY HELP PHOTOS/ITEMS PLEASE CONTACT jlwaggy2@blueyonder.co.uk

[brianern]

i am interested with any information on H.M.S RENOWN at the battle of Jutland. my fathers uncle served on the ship at the time.
His name was George Russell, i would be interested in any info thanks

[BCRenown]

I am sorry but there must be some mistake. Renown completed on 20 September 1916, nearly four months after the Battle of Jutland. She was not involved in the battle. Could it be that your great uncle was aboard HMS Revenge or some other ship?

Monty

[brianern]

I am sorry but there must be some mistake. Renown completed on 20 September 1916, nearly four months after the Battle of Jutland. She was not involved in the battle. Could it be that your great uncle was aboard HMS Revenge or some other ship?

Monty

Thanks for that MONTY, it is possible he was on another ship, and joined Renown later, my info must be wrong , about the ship he was aboard at the time. Thanks for your trouble Bwenman

[BCRenown]

it is possible he was on another ship, and joined Renown later

Now that would be nice. Renown was known to be a very happy and efficient ship and I'm sure your uncle would have added to these attributes.

Monty

[Joseph]

If you have his number place or date of Birth you may get his documents online for GBP 3.50 have a look here.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=browserefine&query=first_name%3dgeorge%7clast_name%3drussell&catid=15&pagenumber=1&querytype=1&mediaarray=*

99 to look at but you may find him.

Regards Charles

[BCRenown]

Hi to all aboard,

Over the years I have collected many excellent photographs of my favourite warship, battlecruiser Renown, but I am conspicuously lacking any photo which shows her fitted with an 8-barreled 2-pdr pom pom on her port side prior to her 1936-39 reconstruction. She was fitted with a similar mounting on her starboard side during a 1932 refit but sailored on until early in 1936 before the port mounting was fitted (lack of availability). Does anyone here have such a photo that he/she wouldn't mind sharing? Given all of the fantastic pix so generously posted on this board, I can think of no better place to ask.

- pre-reconstruction Renown photo showing port side 2-pdr pom pom abreast bridge and fore funnel -

Monty

[Kevin Denlay]

Don’t have the photo you are after but recently come across an add on Amazon for this soon to be released (October 2008) book that might be of interest to you or others with an interest in Renown

K

THE BATTLE-CRUISER HMS RENOWN 1916-48 by Peter Smith (Hardcover / 368 pages)
Product Description
This is the story of the Royal Navy battle-cruiser H.M.S. Renown, a famous ship with a long and distinguished operational career. Originally built for the First World War she subsequently served in the post-war fleet and took royalty around the world. Modernized just in time for World War Two, she re-joined the fleet in September, 1939 and for the first two years of the war her speed and heavy gun armament made her one of the most important ships of the fleet. She escorted the famous carrier Ark Royal for most of her illustrious career as flagship of Force 'H' in the Mediterranean and took part in many stirring battles and convoy actions. Later she covered Russian convoys in the Arctic before going out to the Indian Ocean where she took part in attacks on Japanese targets in the Indian Ocean. Her final duties included the meeting of King George VI and President Truman in 1945. A host of fresh detail coupled with eyewitness memoirs from former crew members make this an outstanding warship biography.

[ChalkyWhite]

Hello Monty,

The book mentioned above due to be published allegedly in October 2008 must be an 'upgunned' version of a previous book I have.

Hit First, Hit Hard, HMS Renown 1916 - 1948 by Peter C Smith
Published by William Kimber. ISBN 07183 0206 0


IN other research matters I have communicated with Peter Smith in the past through his Publisher and found him to be very helpful. He has published many books and would probably have a large number of photos of Renown through his research into the book mentioned above and also the new book due to be published soon. He might well be able to answer the question posed by Monty, and either have a photo or know where such a photo exists..
Other than that a communication to the Imperial War Museum Photographic Department, who I have always found to be extremely helpful, who might have the very photo Monty seeks of Renown prior to modernisation.
As the 1936 - 1939 modernisation was carried out in Portsmouth Dockyard I have no doubt a photo, prior to, and after modernisation will have been taken and will be in the RN Museum Collection and also the Wright & Logan Collection.
The close range weapons which Monty is interested in are mentioned in my book and were fitted in Portsmouth Dockyard during the refit which lasted from 1931 - 1932, and further an additional pom-pom, which had not been available due to cut backs (does anything ever change) was fitted to the port side amidships but not it's director, at the end of the 1933 commission.

Hope all this will assist you Monty.

Chalky White.

[jbryce1437]

This is the best that I can do, from 1927, another similar view has the mounting covered up.

[BCRenown]

Thank you folks for your replies. I suppose the reason that there few, if any, photos of Renown with her port pom pom is she carried it for such a brief period - Feb - May 1936.

I have a copy of Peter Smith's "Hit First, Hit Hard". Mr. Smith tells me the new version will be edited in some areas and will contain more crew stories. The visual aspect of the new book will not be increased to any large extent. Mr. Smith did ask for new unpublished Renown photos and it is a shame I did not discover this site sooner. I am pretty certain we could have helped him a great deal. The new book is his response to numerous requests for the out of print original.

Thanks again,
Monty

[brianern]

Thanks thanks for the info charles, i will do what you suggest,
regards brian ern

[Batstiger]

Monty I have just been browsing through ebay and on typing in Renown I unearthed this picture. It is captioned HMS Renown's Bofors gun. We can all see that it is an eight barelled Pom-Pom mounting, is it of any use to you?

Regards, Bob.

[BCRenown]

Hi Bob,

Not in the time period I was seeking but certainly Renown's port pom-pom and definitely of use to me. Well done and thank you so very much.:)

Monty

[jbryce1437]

Following Bobs post, I came across this photo of, I presume, the same pattern mounting on HMS Shropshire. Not sure if you want the photo for model making purposes, if so, this should help to give an overall view of the layout of the mounting. The other pic is a similar mounting on HMS Rodney.

[jbryce1437]

Found this pic of the same time of type of turret, but the ships name is not known, but it was some time between Sept 1939 and Dec 1940

[astraltrader]

If it wasn`t for the lack of pom-poms Jim - your picture looks like the configuration used on Nelson.

I suppose my picture shows the 6 inch port turrets...

[DJBlackburn]

At the risk of being presumptuous, I don't think the question is one regarding the details of a pompom mounting itself. The trick, I believe, is finding a photograph of HMS Renown taken during the very brief period when she actually carried both port and starboard mountings.

Seems to be a period in the ship's history, not exactly rich in photo opportunities! ;) After all, it was a fairly short time between fitting the missing portside mounting and the time she was paid off for her major reconstruction.

Just my ha-penny's worth....:)

[joncee]

Can anyone help please,

I am researching my family history on doing so I found that my 2nd great grand uncle served in the Royal Marines.
On the 1861 Census he is shown as being on the Renown at Beirut Syria.
My question is how would one go about finding information on the ship and it crew, I would appreciate any information whatsoever and thank you in advance.

joncee

[herakles]

Welcome to the forum joncee. I expect you will get the information you require.

[Ednamay]

My son (preparing for the next lot of DIY) has unearthed a book that was one of my father’s treasures, and a pleasure from my childhood when I was allowed to look at all the photographs of ‘the navy at play”.

In 1920 Prince Edward, Prince of Wales, set off with his staff on the Renown to do (presumably) the equivalent of ‘the grand tour’, the ‘finishing school’ for young gentlemen in the 18th and 19th centuries (‘the gap year’?)

They travelled by way of Barbados and the Panama Canal, where they had some problems because of an earth fall in one of the cuttings.

It was forecast they would cross the equator on Friday 16th April at 11 pm, at longitude 160 west.

Victor E. Marsden wrote this published account of the voyage and adventures and commented “In a British ship of war the ceremony is always observed with that thoroughness which characterises the work of the Royal Navy, and is equally noticeable in its play. The British matloe dearly loves a bit of play-acting and is adept at impersonation; 1,400 men had the best part of a day in health-giving frolic, to say nothing of the countless hours of anticipatory pleasure in preparing for weeks beforehand “the book of the words”, costumes and “business” for the age-old ceremony of “Crossing the Line”.

During this period they also collected the names of everyone who had already crossed the line, how many times, whether they had already paid their respects to Neptune (which also indicated who had not yet done so). Some 400 faced initiation.

Neptune gave notice of his imminent visit, dated 10th April 1920. The receipt of this information sowed the seed of a counterplot, for why was a pagan Roman God using the Christian calendar? Long story short, they planned to ‘baptise’ him, either in the enormous bath being prepared, or in the sea itself!

Neptune made an initial visit about 9pm on 16th April, to greet the arrivals and to warn of his full-party arrival on 17th.

Neptune informed the Prince that soap would not be necessary (because the waters were already polluted with ‘shee-boo’, otherwise known as Pusser’s Vinolia [see my thread Words, words, words] but a ‘goodly towel would be a luxury after the bathing process’

The day dawned and the party arrived, with all due pomp; the party consisted of NEPTUNE Mr. Enright, AMPHITRITE Sergt. Redman, PRIVATE SECRETARY (otherwise IMP) Mr. Robertson, JUDGE C.P.O. Collins, JUDGE’S CLERKS Ch.Sto. May, Shpt Bickerstaffe, and numerous others playing the parts of the doctor and his assistants, the barbers and barbers’ assistants, the police, the bodyguard, the herald, the trumpeters, the Officer Bears and the Bears, plus the riggers.

Their costumes were mostly of canvas, bedecked with paint and thrums. The doctor’s stethoscope was the headpiece and and tubes of a voicepipe ; the lancet was a sea service cutlass and a gauge glass as a clinical thermometer. The pills were dough, seasoned with quinine, and the lathering brush was a large size whitewash brush; the ‘soap’ was a mixture of flour and water, coloured black, red and white.

Marsden continues:- The bath was erected on the starboard side, between the two forward turrets, and a stout platform, roomy enough to accommodate the principal actors, a few privileged spectators, and perhaps a dozen novices at a time. It was reached by two gang-boards from the port side. (I hope this is of interest to the Renown followers).

Enquiries to each mess concerning names and numbers also went to the Prince’s staff, with the response that “HRH the Prince of Wales has not yet Crossed the Line............
Rear-Admiral Sir Lionel Halsey has crossed the line on upwards of 200 occasions -- recommended for the Order of ‘The Old Sea Dog’.......Captain Dudley North has crossed the Line nine times, and has been personally decorated by His Majesty..........
also mentioned were Lieut.Col. Grig and Lord Claud Hamilton, who had crossed the line but not been initiated, and Sir Godfrey Thomas, Bart and Captain the Hon. Piers Legh, who were novices.

After King Neptune’s arrival and procession came the presentation of orders and honours. The Prince became a ‘Companion of the Royal Order of the Equatorial Bath’; Rear Admiral Halsey became a Knight Commander of the Ancient Order of The Old Sea Dog; in his response he informed Neptune of the names of the instigators of the counter-plot, Colonel Grig and Lord Louis Mountbatten, who were promptly arrested by the ‘police’.

A young Australian, who had been greatly involved with sports and activities on board, and with costumes for the production, became a Member of the Order of the Crusted Barnacle; there were two further presentations, Commander Campbell (Companion of the Order of the Soused Herring) and Captain Clark (Knight of the Honourable Order of the Ginned Sardine) before proceeding to the main event of the day.

Everyone with a part took his place (the bears in the bath and the miscreants, marked ‘To be drowned’, in the hands of the police), etc., so Admiral Halsey brought forward the Prince; having no crimes, he was to be initiated by lathering in two colours, to be shaved by the giant wooden razor and ducked ‘three times thrice’ by the bears.

Ranged along the edge of the bath were three tipstools, wooden folding seats with an iron catch at deck level; when the initiate was breathless from the lathering, the barber kicked the catch and precipitated the victim into he water. After his immersion, the Prince put a cap-cover over his dripping hair and went up to watch the fun.

After this the criminals were dealt with; after the command “Off Caps” the appropriate ‘Article of War’ (much adapted) was read. Lord Louis Mountbatten was the greater criminal, being a Naval Officer, and after the “on Caps” he was sentenced to the barber and ducking ‘Four times four”; he survived to watch Col. Grig being lathered in three colours but only ducked “Three times thrice”.

Eventually all the initiations were complete and the initiates were presented with a certificate. In the evening the Warrant Officers were entertained by the Officers’ Mess and the men had an al fresco sing-song on the quarter-deck to round off the occasion.

This account was written by Victor Marsden of the Morning Post, who was attached to the Prince’s staff. It was printed by W.C. Penfold & Co. Ltd, 88 Pitt Street, Sydney, Australia and published by Angus & Robertson Ltd, 89 Castlereagh Street, Sydney, in 1920. I think everyone on Renown received a copy. It would be interesting to know whether any other copies are extant, this one is a bit fragile

I hope this gives you a bit of a chuckle over this weekend (and later?)

Edna

[culverin]

The career of HMS Renown from 1916 - 1948 is a superb example of the way a capital ship can, over the decades she saw front line service in the Royal Navy, be updated to ensure her capabilities remain at the fore front of naval thinking and technology.
A remarkable achievement which i believe puts her on a par with Warspite.

[BCRenown]

Renown saw no action during WWI, but during WWII she twice put twice her number to flight and survived. In 1942 her excellent gunnery performance allowed her to be specially exempt from Home Fleet gunnery practice.

An Admiralty Board of Inquiry had to be set up to end the practice of over-speeding her engines. Her post reconstuction designed maximum speed was set at 29.9 knots. After trials it was set at 30.75 knots. Yet, the boys were able to get 32 knots out of her on several occasions. Such a flogging of her engines, however, was afterward only permissable when Winston Churchill was aboard, of course. On one such occasion his daughter Sarah was nearly washed overboard after some young officer had invited her to a stroll on the quarterdeck. Admiral Cunningham sailing aboard Renown for his first time in 1943, remarked quite favourably of her seakeeeping qualities.
The surrender of German forces in Norway was signed aboard Renown. President Harry Truman inspected Renown near war's end. Two princes of Great Britain undertook a number of world tours in her. Both of them later became kings. Renown fought against all three Axis powers and survived a winner and fully intact. Broken up in 1948 by the tools of man, as she was built by, God spared her the more indignate fate of Warspite and she remains undefeated by her enemies or by mother nature.
It's HMS Renown that ultimately deserves the honour being preserved among all of the empire's capital ships. So so sad that she wasn't.

Monty

[qprdave]

Monty

Do I note a very slight bit of bias in your last post;)

[designeraccd]

While she certainly survived intact and put in plenty of war cruises; I forget: what MAJOR ACTION did she fight in that caused the loss, from her guns, of an Axis warship?

Now after her rebuild no doubt she was a handsome, modern looking (except for archiac bow shape) major warship. DFO ;)

[RNfanDan]

Now after her rebuild no doubt she was a handsome, modern looking (except for archiac bow shape) major warship.

Archaic?

(I know what the word means; I am questioning its usage.)

[BCRenown]

Hey Dave, Designer;

I love your reponses (except for the archaic bow thing) but I think you both need to further research more on the effective uses on capital ships in wartime, and the story of HMS Renown and her deterrant effects when facing Scharnhorst and Gneiesnau on one occasion and Vittorio Veneto and Giulio Cesare on the other. My point being, the renowns, despite being totally outgunned, were afraid of neither and maintained the pursuit during the whole time, irregardless of the consequences.

So here we have a rebuilt WWI British battlecruier (not a heavily armoured by any means) having the guts to face down two well armoured (13 inch belts) German battleships in one scenario and willing to square off against Italy`s most modern battleship and her rebuilt consort in the second.

All of this took place when the United States Navy was not even involved in the war and when they hadn`t a single capital ship that could even keep pace with Renown`s enemies even if it had been. Renown did what she was designed to do. Whether she sank her enemies or not she at least put them to flight, retained the initiative and saved precious lives.

While I deeply admire and respect all of the battleships of WWII, only USS Washington and HMS Warspite deserve to stand with HMS Renown. She was always there through thick and thin.

Yes Dave, I am biased toward Renown, but it`s more her fault than mine, ;)

Monty

[culverin]

Renown is a prize name taken from the French fireship Renommee, captured in Dec 1651 by the Nonsuch with the name a literal translation.
The battlecruiser Renown was the 7th RN ship to bear the name.
Her sister Repulse was 11th of name.
Almost from their time of completion the 2 sisters could always be told apart, and from their early 1920's refits could never be mistaken.

[BALTICSUBS]

Renown saw no action during WWI, but during WWII she twice put twice her number to flight and survived. Yep, good point, happy it is not you writing those silly Wikipedia sites. See below.

What the Great Wikipedia says.

The Second Battle of Heligoland Bight was a naval engagement in World War I. On 17 November 1917, German minesweepers clearing a path through the British minefield in the Heligoland Bight near the coast of Germany were intercepted by two British cruisers, HMS Calypso and HMS Caledon, performing counter-minesweeping duties. The German ships fled south toward the protection of the battleships SMS Kaiser and SMS Kaiserin, commanded by Rear Admiral Ludwig von Reuter. The two cruisers engaged the German battleships, while their own screening force of the battlecruisers HMS Tiger, HMS Renown, HMS Repulse, HMS Courageous, and HMS Glorious were coming up to assist.
All personnel on the bridge of HMS Calypso, including her captain, were killed by a 12-inch shell. HMS Repulse, Captain William Boyle, later Admiral of the Fleet William Boyle, 12th Earl of Cork and Orrery, briefly engaged the German battleships, but the Germans made it back to the safety of their own minefields with the loss of only a minesweeper.

What the Log Book of HMS Renown says on the 17th of November 1917.
ADM 53/57616At Rosyth, Cleaning ship, refitting, preparing for undocking, ( I think we get the picture).


What the Log Book of HMS New Zealand says on the 17th of November 1917.
ADM 53/52650
Action Stations, saw & heard gunfire ahead. ( I think we get the picture).

It was extremely stupid to throw these ships, with the exception of HMS Tiger, into a battle where one German hit could be there end, but as with Hood they don’t seems to have heeded these warning even this far back. Had the finances been available I’m sure all pre Jutland ships would have been scrapped and new modern ships built.

Battle Cruiser Strength. CAB 24/24
On a detailed comparison, taking vessels of Approximately the same age, the First Sea Lord remarks That RENOWN & REPULSE are completely outclassed and not fit to even engage HINDENBURG
20th of August 1917.
Jellicoe.

The armour protection of "REPULSE" and "RENOWN" calls for serious consideration. With a belt of only 6 inches they are dangerously liable to destruction by a single hit and in view of their high-speed and powerful armament it is considered that, as soon as the new shell has been supplied to all battle cruisers, no time should be lost in fitting the additional protection which is now in course of preparation for them.
REPULSE-1916-31 knots, 8 x 15 inch guns..............
RENOWN-1916-31 knots, 8 x 15 inch guns..............
Unfortunately these ships are practically unprotected at present and have only a 6” belt between the Turrets and are highly liable to blow up by enemy shell fire. It has been approved to raise her 6” belts and fit them with 9” belts & ? bulge on both sides. This may take 5-6 months for each in the dockyard. These 2 ships have anti-torpedo protection bulkhead.

Signed) ERIC GEDDES

31st of August 1918.

[BCRenown]

REPULSE-1916-31 knots, 8 x 15 inch guns..............
RENOWN-1916-31 knots, 8 x 15 inch guns..............


Of course the "Gallopers" each carried only 6 x 15" guns. Renown achieved 32.58 knots on trials.

The improvements in protection were actually suggested by the Director of Naval Construction while the ships were under construction but the First Sea Lord wanted them in a hurry and would not tolerate any delays.

Monty

[BALTICSUBS]

REPULSE-1916-31 knots, 8 x 15 inch guns..............
RENOWN-1916-31 knots, 8 x 15 inch guns..............

I leave the mistakes written by Geddes & co as they were, sometimes they can' even spell the names of the German ships.

[patroclus]

Renown is a prize name taken from the French fireship Renommee, captured in Dec 1651 by the Nonsuch with the name a literal translation.
.

This was repeated in 1747 - the second RENOWN being the French frigate prize RENOMMEE taken in that year.

[BCRenown]

I leave the mistakes written by Geddes & co as they were, sometimes they can' even spell the names of the German ships.

I hear ya man, I just want to make certain everyone else hears you as well. ;)

[Don Boyer]

My two pence worth, I've always felt Renown as rebuilt for WWII was as handsome a ship as ever sailed. I note the Germans up around Narvik in 1940 wanted nothing to do with her, "weak" armor, fewer bigs guns, whatever -- she smacked them good and they decided to go home.

I've said in other posts, those RN ships, good, bad or indifferent all have that really annoying tendency to shoot at you regardless. That backbone built and defended an empire for many hundreds of years, and helped give birth to several other navys that have prospered by emulating their seniors. Hopefully, the trend will continue.

[BALTICSUBS]

I've said in other posts, those RN ships, good, bad or indifferent all have that really annoying tendency to shoot at you regardless. That backbone built and defended an empire for many hundreds of years, and helped give birth to several other navys that have prospered by emulating their seniors. Hopefully, the trend will continue.

True Don, but i would feel mightly let down if i were a crewman of Hood, Queen Mary, Invincible, & Indefatigable. Geddes himself talks of new ships to be bulid after Jutland to give the RN confidence again.

On the other issue i raised, i hope whoever writes the junk and misleading comments on Wikipedia sites does some primary source homework, really not so hard, log books do not lie.

[Ednamay]

No-one has mentioned crew morale in any of these posts.

My father served on Renown when she took the Prince of Wales to Australia. Because of his staff / retinue, there was tremendous pressure on accommodation on board, but it was all taken in good part. There was a lot of what my father called 'josh and jollity' on board, at all levels, especially at the Crossing the Line ceremony.

My father remembered her as a 'happy ship' or even 'chummy ship'; Did this feeling of teamwork last?

Edna

[culverin]

Ref the 2 # 16 and 20.
There was a 3rd Renommee taken too, in 1796, but she retained her French name as Renown was already the name of a serving ship, the 4th RN ship of the name by then.

[BCRenown]

No-one has mentioned crew morale in any of these posts.

My father served on Renown when she took the Prince of Wales to Australia. Because of his staff / retinue, there was tremendous pressure on accommodation on board, but it was all taken in good part. There was a lot of what my father called 'josh and jollity' on board, at all levels, especially at the Crossing the Line ceremony.

My father remembered her as a 'happy ship' or even 'chummy ship'; Did this feeling of teamwork last?

Edna

From everything I've read about HMS Renown it seems she was always a very happy and effecient ship even as a "scate" ship early 1944, when her company consisted of many that had seen some sort of detention at one time or another.

Monty

[NASAAN101]

Hey Monty,
Do you know of Any photos of these to big girls together? I have them on my ships list, and all that but I'm trying to find a photo of them together, for my deck top! I may joke around about the two ships but they are nice looken ships! Its just sad either one were together during the bismarck chase, those two along with KGV and Rodney, could they together have sank bismarck or would she have been able to run them off like she did with the two cruisers?
Nikki

[BCRenown]

Hey Nikki,

I could probably count on one hand the number of photos I've seen of Renown and Repulse together. They are indeed rare. Here's one showing the sisters together in the mid to late 1920s. Taken from HMS Hood, it shows Repulse leading Renown and two other capital ships.

[GaryH]

Renown AND Repulse were both happy ships for pretty much the duration of their service lives.
Even in the final days of her life, old Repulse was a far happier ship than PoW!
Renown was just fantastic though :)

[NASAAN101]

hey Guys,
I may joke around about these two old girls, but they are nice looking ships! Its just sad either one were together during the bismarck chase! Could Renown and Repules together with KGV and Rodney, could they have sank Bismarck or would she have been able to run them off like she did with the two cruisers? the Fire power they had were the same guns Bismarck had, 8 x 15inche Cannons! What do you guys thing?
Nikki

[BCRenown]

The nominal maximum speeds of the ships in question in 1941:

Repulse - 28-28.5 knots.

Renown - 30.75 knots (32 knots achieved by overspeeding her engines).

Bismarck - 30 knots ( a little more on trials, if I recall correctly.)

To have Renown and Repulse engage Bismarck in the Denmark Strait would be to invite disaster for at least one of the battlecruisers. However, other than to protect Ark Royal from a possible breakout by Scharnhorst and Gneisenau from Brest, I see no reason why Renown could not have helped King George V and Rodney in the 'final' battle with Bismarck. Given that Bismarck failed to score a single hit, Renown would have been safe enough. It's no wonder the Renowns (at least the lower deck) concluded the Home Fleet wanted the glory of the kill for itself.

That being said, I have read that the Renowns were quite peeved at not being given the opportunity to go up against Bismarck. Actually, they were quite happy when they learned they would not have to face Bismarck alone. I think (admittedly, further research is required on my part) the Renowns' main gripe was that they were not included in the kill even after King George V and Rodney were already present.

Repulse of course, was detached to Newfoundland to refuel well before the final battle and could not have been there. Otherwise, I think the two battlcruisers would have been as effective as the two battlships in destroying the already crippled Bismarck.

Nikki, as for using the battlcruisers instead of the heavy cruisers for shadowing purposes, I think the cruisers performed an outstanding job. Speed may not have been a determining factor but, we must remember that, unlike the cruisers, neither Renown nor Repulse was equipped with radar at that particular time. That would certainly have given Bismarck a considerably greater margin for escape.

Monty

[oldsalt]

How do you overspeed turbines ? Gagging boiler safety valves maybe.

[BCRenown]

Not sure, I think it's done by increasing boiler pressure.

Renown's new machinery was designed to give her a top speed of 29.9 knots @ 108,000 shp. After successful speed trials this was reset by the Admiralty to 30.75 knots @ 120,000 shp. On several occasions during WW II Renown was able to work up to 32 knots using 160,000 shp. An Admiralty Board of Inquiry was finally set up to "put an end to the practice of overspeeding her engines". Only when PM W. Churchill was aboard were exceptions allowed.

All of this according to Peter C. Smith's - "Hit First, Hit Hard - HMS Renown - 1916-1948.

Monty

[rab.m.]

How do you overspeed turbines ? Gagging boiler safety valves maybe.
I think it was probably done by adjusting the turbine overspeed governor,
Rab.

[ekd]

I think it was probably done by adjusting the turbine overspeed governor,
Rab.

Ohhhh! A Governor. On the main engines??? Tell us more.:confused:

Oldsalt is right. If the throttles are wide open, the only way to increase speed is to gag the saftey valves, and then increase the boiler pressure. Very very dangerous!

[NASAAN101]

Monty,
My thing was using them along with KGV and Rodney, when they confronted bismarck on May 27th, 1941! what do you thing?
Nikki

[ekd]

I think it was probably done by adjusting the turbine overspeed governor,
Rab.

Rab, I can't recall an overspeed governor on a main turbine engine..plenty on auxilliary machinery.:confused:

[BCRenown]

Monty,
My thing was using them along with KGV and Rodney, when they confronted bismarck on May 27th, 1941! what do you thing?
Nikki

Renown and Repulse + King George V and Rodney = Bismarck sunk

[NASAAN101]

Monty,
My thing is let those four have at it with Bismarck, while the Cruisers and Destroyers keep watch if Prinz Eugen shows up!! what do you think?? that way the Cruisers and Destroyers can have at it with her!
Nikki

[culverin]

Renown and her sister Repulse started out as the 6th and 7th in the Royal Sovereign class.
Then Jackie Fisher returned.
Things changed, and they were to change very rapidly indeed. When Fisher expressed an opinion everyone listened.
Jellicoe listened, liked what he heard and the re birth of these two commenced.
An 8th ship Resistance was cancelled at the same time.

[Ednamay]

No-one has mentioned crew morale in any of these posts.

My father served on Renown when she took the Prince of Wales to Australia. Because of his staff / retinue, there was tremendous pressure on accommodation on board, but it was all taken in good part. There was a lot of what my father called 'josh and jollity' on board, at all levels, especially at the Crossing the Line ceremony.

My father remembered her as a 'happy ship' or even 'chummy ship'; Did this feeling of teamwork last?

Edna
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alfredthegreat - you also have stories about this ship but I cannot access you - are you not a member??
Edna

[jainso31]

He is NOT on the Members List Edna,unless he posts under a different name.
Culverin I agree with you whole heartedly about Jackie Fisher's decision,without which we would have been without those magnificent ships.

jainso31

[alfredthegreat]

Hello. I'm an ancient landlubber. Have a few handwritten details of voyage of Renown as above. Maybe someone out there hoping for some corroboration and I could possibly help? I'm in UK.

[alfredthegreat]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alfredthegreat - you also have stories about this ship but I cannot access you - are you not a member??
Edna

Validation only recd this AM. If you remember I was able to e-mail you directly on Friday. Bear with me, all. Bit of a dummy at this end.

[alfredthegreat]

When HMS Renown left Portsmouth on the 26 Oct 1921 her particulars were noted (by a serving member of crew) as follows:
6 x 15" guns: 12 x 4" guns: 2 x 21" torpodo tubes: speed 32 and half knots: displacement 32000 tons: Capt Hon H Meade: Comm Hon R Drummond: length 795ft: breadth 90ft: draught 32ft: complement 1220 officers and men.

Upon arrival back at Portsmouth 22 June 1922, mileage recorded as 32,396.

An official document logs the total distance of the Far East Tour as 28857 miles. Apologies for anything that may seem erroneous. Corrections well received. Alf.

[Ednamay]

When HMS Renown left Portsmouth on the 26 Oct 1921 her particulars were noted (by a serving member of crew) as follows:
6 x 15" guns: 12 x 4" guns: 2 x 21" torpodo tubes: speed 32 and half knots: displacement 32000 tons: Capt Hon H Meade: Comm Hon R Drummond: length 795ft: breadth 90ft: draught 32ft: complement 1220 officers and men.

Upon arrival back at Portsmouth 22 June 1922, mileage recorded as 32,396.

An official document logs the total distance of the Far East Tour as 28857 miles. Apologies for anything that may seem erroneous. Corrections well received. Alf.

Sorry, can't find my copy of the official tour book amongst the DIY detritis - will continue looking!

Edna

[Ednamay]

Hello. I'm an ancient landlubber. Have a few handwritten details of voyage of Renown as above. Maybe someone out there hoping for some corroboration and I could possibly help? I'm in UK.

See under HMS Renown; I have a copy of the official record (as far as Australia), currently buried in the depths. Will search.

Edna

[alfredthegreat]

17 June 1922 Gibralter. Evening boxing match. Contestants: AB McConaky v AB Lovegrove. AB Acklam v AB Lyttle. Boy Hilton v Boy Carr. Tel Cook v Sto Tongs. Ord Sea Wallace v Bug Alltimes. AB Ives v AB Marchant. AB Flowers v Pte Connor. Ld Sea Watkins v AB Collyer. Boy Snell v Boy McIntyre. Corp Chase v Pte Smith. Referee Lieut Billyard-Leake. Judges Lieut Halsey & Sub-Lieut Eykyn. Timekeeper Mid Dolphin. M.C CPO Lawler.

[alfredthegreat]

Request:- My father served on the Renown in 1922 when it was on the "Royal" tour. I have a small momento of that trip in the form of a "Special Ticket" issued to the crew's of the Renown and Durban. My request is, does anyone know where i might be able to find the crews list for that trip or years 1920-1922. I'm trying to make up a history of the family for my grandchildren so any information would be welcome.


Hello stan-the-man. Only today have read your message from 2007 and see you were interested in the Renown cruise 1921/22. What was your father's name? Are you still browsing and contactable? If so read my earlier posts.

[dean1964]

I have a Book of photographs of the World tour of which my Grandad was on I belive

[Ednamay]

Alfred - glad to see you back; our DIY is well on the way (now our new boiler is installed) so I will hunt out the Australian printed record.

Edna

[ludsie]

Renown certainly was a handsome warship that saw service in all theaters. Shame that we couldn't think of way to preserve her but then again I guess this thread does.

[TCC]

Sorry, can't find my copy of the official tour book amongst the DIY detritis - will continue looking!

Edna

Pathe film of the trip

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=18253

Plus there's more clips of the trip if you care to look.

[Feffer]

Hello all, have only recently found this website, my grandfather was also on the Royal Tour of 1921 and I have a lot of memorabillia from that visit. Namely a pass giving them access to the transport, a large photo album with Japanese postcards, and some photographs of the Prince of Wales on board. In addition, my grandfather, who was a stoker on board, also captained the football team that played the Japanese (not sure whether they were navy or what?!) and we have a large photograph of the team with shirts displaying Prince of Wales feathers! His name was Robert Nunnery, and he joined the Royal Navy when he was 13 and a half by lying about his age!! My father has more information in his head than I have, but I wonder if anyone else has any info. Many thanks.