HMS Amsterdam

[Simon Major]

I'm hoping someone can help me please as I'm researching my family tree. My Grandfather Eric Major served in the Royal Navy between 1911 and 1919. I have a picture of him as a young man in uniform wearing an HMS Amsterdam cap tally, and other pictures of him wearing an HMS Zealandia cap tally. I've obtained his service record from the Admiralty website which shows his service on Zealandia but there is no reference in his record to any service on HMS Amsterdam. I can find little or no reference on the web to HMS Amsterdam for this period (only during WW2). If anyone can shed any light on why my Grandfather might be wearing an HMS Amsterdam cap tally but without any record of having served on that ship I would be extremely grateful. Thankyou.

[jbryce1437]

Could he have been in the Merchant Navy before joining the RN, and could it be SS Amsterdam, or can you read the whole of the cap tally. Can't find any record of a seagoing HMS Amsterdam at any time.
The battleship New Zealand was renamed Zealandia in 1911, to free the name for a new battlecruiser of that name.
This is a photo of HMS Zealandia in 1916

[Batstiger]

It's not like you to miss one Jim!
Here you are Simon a picture of HMS Amsterdam but that is all I can find on her to date.

Bob.

[Batstiger]

Sorry Jim and Simon wrong war !

[Batstiger]

Here's another of the New Zealand to make up for my previous mistake !

Bob.

[Simon Major]

Thanks chaps. When I look at the photo again the cap tally says something-MS Amsterdam. Now I suppose that could be RMS Amsterdam but he's wearing what to me definitely looks like a RN uniform (when I get my scanner sorted out I'll post the photo). I've got that photo of HMS Amsterdam but, yes, it's the wrong war I'm afraid! I'd worked out the HMS New Zealand / HMS Zealandia relationship (9 Jan 1912 re-naming) and it was definitely Zealandia he served on. Also have a photo where cap tally just reads "HMS" which I'm guessing is wartime.

[stontamar]

HMS AMSTERDAM built 1894, 1,777 tons, 17 knots. Commissioned as an Armed Boarding Steamer 20 November 1914 and returned 29 September 1919. Some source give in service date as 8 August 1914 and this may be the date on which she was requisitioned. Armed with one 4" and one 12 pdr. Pennant numbers carried were M.08 and by January 1918 it was changed to MI.00

By 1918 she was base ported at Chatham and her commanding officer was Commander John M Borland RNR DSO

Regards

stontamar

[stontamar]

Hi Simon

One explanation why you have a picture of your grandfather wearing a Cap ribbon bearing the name HMS AMSTERDAM and yet this vessel is not listed on his service record, is that it is possible the ship was a tender attached to a self accounting unit.

The mans service record usually identifies the pay list number and crews of tenders appeared seperately in the ledger.

If you would like me to try and interogate the service record please feel free to forward the electonic copy or link to;

carnock@davemallinson.fsnet.co.uk

Regards

stontamar

[stontamar]

Hi Simon

Please see the picture of the Armed Boarding Steamer HMS AMSTERDAM:

Regards

[stontamar]

I believe that photograph of the Pre-Dreadnought posted by Bob, which is identified as HMS NEW ZEALAND, actually deplicts her sister ship HMS HINDUSTAN. The distinguishing funnel bands identify this ship and date the photograph to c1909-11.

Please see the picture of HMS NEW ZEALAND below in which the ship is carrying the correct pattern single red band of both funnels dating this photograph also to the c1909-1911 period.

Regards

stontamar

[Simon Major]

Thanks again chaps for the info and the photos of New Zealand/Zealandia which I'm going to add to my growing collection (taking care not to confuse with Hindustan!). I'm going to take you up on your kind offer Stontamar and email you the service record and if you can add anything to what I've been able to glean from it then that would be a real bonus. In the meantime I'm going to try to attach a photo or two to this message.

[Batstiger]

Nice pictures Simon.

At last with a bit of help from my friends I can post the correct pictures.

HMS Zealandia. HMS Hindustan.

Sorry everybody I'll try and not let it happen again!

Bob.

[Batstiger]

I've touched up the photo's for you Simon getting rid of a few of the blemishes.
Wonder what happened to the fellows lanyard on the back row?

Bob.

[Simon Major]

Thanks Bob, those look great now. We've only just bought a scanner and we're still getting to grips with it so haven't worked out all the software gizmos yet. I hadn't noticed the missing lanyard (I'm not ex-navy see). My grandfather is back row extreme left; tough looking character. Looks different to the portrait photo - perhaps he'd had a hard watch!

[Batstiger]

Here is a better view of the Foc'sle for you Simon, you can almost imagine your grandfather standing there.

[Simon Major]

That is simply amazing! Where do all these superb pictures come from? I spent ages searching the internet and only came up with three photos of Zealandia, of which two are now seriously in doubt. Thank you very much - once again!

[stontamar]

Having looked at Eric Major's service record I can see do immediate connection to him having served on HMS AMSTERDAM. The record either shows him listed on various ships compliments under training (List 15) or in a complimented billet (List 5), there is no indiction from the Ledger details that he was serving on a Tender (List 12) or on loan.

However I am unsure as to the identity of the men in the various photographs. Simon mentions that his grandfather looks different in the group photograph and this does appear to be the case. I cannot read the cap ribbons worn by the group but presumably, if the man is Simon's grandfather, they read HMS ZEALANDIA as he was only drafted to the ship under training two days before the name changed. Also the age of the man in the photograpgh would rule out any possibility of the photograph dating to November 1911.

Incidentally, according to the service record HMS NEW ZEALAND changed name as from 1 December 1911 and not the 9 January 1912 as previously mentioned.

Regards - stontamar

[Simon Major]

Thanks to everyone for all the help you've provided. Great website!