7/4 Maritime Regt. (R.A.) - 11 Sep. 1941

[stewart mcloughlin]

Good afternoon
I am conducting research into our village war memorials, and thought to be one of our casualties was:-
Gnr. 1580530 Frederick Scholes who was killed with 9 colleagues on 11th September, 1941. His CWGC states that he is remembered on the Plymouth Naval Memorial.
Can anyone provide me with links of this man to the Preston area of England and what this particular unit was engaged in to suffer casualties.
Searched naval-history.com and National Archives but without any success.
This was the period when operations were being pursued against northern Norway, though no inference is placed on any connection with my inquiry.
Regards

Stewart McLoughlin (new boy)

[Alan B]

Hiya Stewart
You could try
www.cwgc.org
There's 2 F Scholes there.
Hope this helps
Alan

[stontamar]

Hi Stewart

Following members of 7/4 Maritime Regt, RA reported killed on 11 September 1941

BASS, Thomas, Gunner, RA, 1588844
BROADHURST, George, Gunner, RA, 1566850
CANE, Donald A, Bombardier, RA, 1478540
COOKE, Ernest, Gunner, RA, 1566823
GARLICK, John, Gunner, RA, 1567456
JACK, Robert, Gunner, RA, 1567403
MOORE, George S, Leading Bombardier, RA, 1567248
PEET, Peter, Gunner, RA, 1560561
PHILLIPS, William W, Leading Bombardier, RA, 1535781
SCHOLES, Frederick, Gunner, RA, 1560530

My guess would be that they were gunners serving possibly on one or more of the merchant ships that were sunk while sailing in Convoy SC 42 (Sydney, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia to Liverpool) by U-boats on that date:

BERURY – 1 dead
EMPIRE CROSSBILL – 49 dead no survivors
GYPSUM QUEEN – 10 dead (reports give date of sinking as both 10 & 11 September 1941
STONEPOOL – 42 dead

In all fifteen ships from this convoy were lost but there is contradiction between various references as to which U-boats actual sank which ships. Any readers are invited to read the numerous account of this major convoy battle to form their own opinion.

Regards

stontamar

[stewart mcloughlin]

Many thanks gentlemen.

I shall follow your suggestions, particularly with regards to the ships lost.
However, presumably the Merchant Navy war memorial at Tower Hill will only list merchant sailors. Don't know, but I'll certainly follow that as a start.

Regards

Stewart McLoughlin

[stontamar]

These men are commemorated on the Plymouth Naval Memorial. So far I have been unable to connect these men to any of the ships listed but I still believe that the odds are stacked heavily in favour of the deaths occuring during the battle for convoy SC 42.

Regards

stontamar

[stewart mcloughlin]

Thanks for your extra.
Am I right in thinking that there would not have been a stand-alone war diary for SC42?
Would each ship have kept it's own log and that would be it? Logs of course on many occasions going down with the ship.
Would mixed service i.e. Royal N./Merchant N. casualties on the same ship have been filed anywhere as a complete record, or only in their respective branches?
I have a later inquiry that I have traced the naval casualties on board a troop-ship, but cannot, so far, trace the Army casualties of which there were more of. Seems so far that 'each looked after it's own'. Is this so?
Stewart McLoughlin

[stontamar]

Hi Stewart

Records for Convoy SC 42 are held by The National Archive under ADM 237/219.

Convoy escort, provided by the Royal Canadian Navy through to the Momp (Mid Ocean Meeting Point), included the destroyer HMCS Skeena and corvettes Kenogami, Alberni and Orillia. They were augmented by additional escorts from Convoy HX 147 and ON 13.

Senior officer of the escort was Lieutenant-Commander Jimmy Hibbard in HMCS Skeena. See Library and Archives Canada RG24-D-1-b Volume 3814 File No (creator) 1012-8-13 (Decorations and Awards - Actions by HMCS SKEENA while Escorting Convoy SC42).

I do not know why the R.A. personnel are on the one hand commemorated on the Plymouth Naval Memorial yet casualty records seem to excluded a link to the vessel they were lost on.

I would suggest that you write to the Royal Artillery Museum and ask their advice and enquire as to what information they hold relating to the 7/4 Maritime Regt, RA.

The Royal Artillery Museum
Royal Arsenal
Woolwich
London
SE18 6ST
ENGLAND

Tel: (020) 8855 7755

Research Enquiries: research@firepower.org.uk

Also i believe, and I am no expert in the subject, that ever person sailing on a merchant ship has to be registered on that vessel. As mentioned I am no expert and the wording may be wrong but I would take some advice regarding crew lists.

Hope this helps


stontamar

[stewart mcloughlin]

Certainly intriguing, for a novice that is.

I shall do as you suggest.

Many thanks

Stewart

[stewart mcloughlin]

I think you have put me on the right track.

Visited some other sites and found the 7/4 Maritime Regt. were indeed on convoy SC42.

Have found that Bass, Broadhurst, Cane, Cooke and Moore, were on board the 'Stonepool' which was sunk by U.207, Capt. Fritz Meyer.

Have had difficulty finding the crew/casualty lists of the other ships Berury, Empire Crossbill and Gypsum Queen but still on with it.

R.A. archive on holiday until later in the month. Had Blair's 'U-boat War' book from the library, but it's the 42-45 edition. Ah well, if things ran smoothly this research game would be easy, but wouldn't provide that 'Eureka' moment.

Many thanks.

Stewart

[stontamar]

Hi Stewart - I see your research is progressing well and at least you have found details of five of the ten men you listed. Excellent work.

Regards

stontamar

[stewart mcloughlin]

Would never have done it without your pointer.

Awaiting Blair's 39-42 from the Library and replies from RNM Portsmouth, Army Museum and N.A.'s at Kew on the reference you mention.

On going. Sod's Law I've found five, but not my man amongst them.

Thanks

Stewart

[stewart mcloughlin]

I think this thread is all but closed now.

Have now traced a niece and brother of our man Fred Scholes, who have the telegram notifying his death on board Empire Crossbill on the date reported.
Tea and biscuits in the near future to exchange information.
Many thanks for all pointers and information, particularly Stontamar, who led us towards convoy SC 42 immediately. Absolutely spot on.
Regards to all over the festive period.
Stewart McLoughlin