Unknown Battleship

[kc]

I have attached a photo of an unknown battleship, which was cropped from a larger photo of the crew of HMS Cornflower at Malta (to appear on the site soon btw). Perhaps someone can identify the ship?

[Steve]

Hi,
I think it's one of the 'Queen Elizabeth' class - the 6'' battery is further aft than 'Iron Duke' class and she has a breakwater fitted forward of her 6'' battery. Also, I cannot see a derrick stump mast fitted just forward of the second funnel and the aerial spreaders appear to be fitted directly to the funnels, as in the QE class. I would date the photo as just after WW1 but before modernisation. The QE's were in the Atlantic fleet until 1924 then the Med fleet but they were modernised (Warspite 1924, QE 1926, Malaya 1927, Valiant 1929, Barham 1930). If you have a date for the photo that would help a bit!

regards

Steve

[kc]

Hi Steve, thanks for the info. On first viewing, I thought it was probably Iron Duke or Queen Elizabeth, but did not have the tools to hand for any proper identification. As regards the date of the photo, there was no indication of the date on the photo - the only writing being HMS Cornflower. I will always post any information I have on unidentified ships, but most of the time the information just doesn't exist. Having said that, HMS Cornflower was in existence between 1916 and 1941, which hardly narrows the date down any :confused:.

[AlZictorini]

I think Steve has hit the nail on the head here, it is a Queen Elizabeth Class Battleship.

As for the date and the ship?

This is a long shot but, you will notice the aft funnel does not appear to have the search light (x4) cluster attached to it (see attached pic), these I believe were added to some of the ships in the class whilst in service and not during launch. Note the guns are also missing the distinctive bags adjoining them to the turrets (ie, missing the usual trimmings). The sailor’s uniform would also imply that the ship is in a warm climate. I'm edging a bet her by saying it is in fact an early "HMS Queen Elizabeth" on her initial tests in the Mediterranean in 1915 or during her dispatch to the Dardanelles a little later?

I've cleaned up the original picture a little to aid ident (see other attached).

[kc]

That is very detailed analysis of the ship - I'm impressed. I knew when I posted this one it would be difficult to get the actual ship, purely because of the fact it is not a photo of the ship as such, but the ship happening to appear in the background of a crew photo. I'm happy to go with Queen Elizabeth Class with the details above, but I guess probably the only way to know which one is to cross-reference port visits at Malta of HMS Cornflower with any of the class - if only we had the info! I know some global port records were 'kept' to a certain extent and are becoming available online, but I've yet to see any port visit records from Malta any time pre-war. I'll keep a look out for any we may stumble across.

[tjstoneman]

HMS Tiger perhaps?

[Harley]

I'd be wary calling it a QE-class. The killer for me is the Armoured Director atop the Conning Tower. The only time I can recall seeing that sort is on HMS "Tiger" or the KGVs. I will scour some photos for clues...for as far as I'm aware, the QEs and the Revenge class were all fitted with the same sort of smoot sided armoured director.

And after a brief check, I'd say it's definitely an Iron Duke class...the shape of gunhouse roofs suggests a 13.5-inch turret at any rate. Can't be a KGV because it hasn't got a spread out set of tripod legs on the fore mast.

Harley

[tonclass]

Can anyone put names to these unknown Battleships ?

Update:

1. Konig at Scapa
2. Glorious 1918
3. Possibly Anson
4. ?
5. HMS Tiger
6. ?
7. ?

[Harley]

I'm away from my copies of Breyer, Parkes and Preston atm so this is reasoned conjecture, and why I can't give you specific ships!

Pic 1 is a König class German BB I think. Pic 2 is either "Courageous" or "Glorious". Pic 5 is annoying me. Pic 6 is definitely a QE in the foreground, a Revenge at back left, probably a QE at back right. I suspect Pic 7 are all Revenge class BBs taking a cruise (brilliant picture by the way).

Vaguely yours,
Harley

[qprdave]

Ref Picture No. 7

I notice that the seaboats are run out. can anyone answer why?. Was it standard routine when at sea or was this taken during the war and it's a safety practice if attacked?

[HMS Bergamot]

I'm pretty sure that Pic no 4 is either 'Triumph' or 'Swiftsure'.

Regards

[HMS Bergamot]

And I'm fairly certain picture 1 was taken at Scapa Flow, and shows Konig with Markgraf behind her.

Cheers

[tomsam]

Hi all. Pic 5 is annoying me as well Harley. The upperworks look exactly like HMS Anson, the "Admiral" class Pre Dreadnought but the funnels don't seem to have a clean up and down line. I even thought there may have been another ship behind giving false lines to the ship.Anyway I'll keep thinking.
Tomsam

[Harley]

I'd totally forgotten about this thread. "Good-oh" as they say.

I knew picture 5 was annoying, and I now know what it is - H.M.S. "Tiger", presumably under reconstruction at some point in her relatively long life.

Harley

[astraltrader]

Ton the first one is definitely Konig at Scapa - I have the same photo on a postcard in sepia...

[tomsam]

I am going completely crackers. :o The number 5 pic I referred to should have been No3. I took the left hand group as 1234 then ......... What a load of cobblers I am just getting old.
The wording is pertinent though. Number 3 does look like HMS Anson ( Admiral Class ).
Tomsam

[astraltrader]

Well spotted Simon - that is a fine picture of Tiger that I have never seen before.-Thanks Rik - btw!

What about this one anyone have an idea which QE she is? It sort of looks like she has a big cat perched on the front upper turret! It has to have been taken at a Navy Day - look at all the people swarming all over her...
Also 2 other mystery battleships-any takers please?

[John Brown]

Terry

Picture number 3 looks like it could be KMS Lutzow ex Deutschland.


What do you think?


John

[John Brown]

Terry

Pic no. 2 looks like the SMS Goeben.

Here's a pic of her flying the Turkish flag...

(Or possibly Moltke?)

Pic no. 1.......I'm not saying it is Queen Elizabeth herself but is it just coincidence that she was involved in the Malta convoy 'Operation Tiger' in 1941 and here we have a ship with what could be a Tiger on it's B turret?

John

[astraltrader]

I think you could be right on all 3 counts John.
Your identification of 1 and 2 tie in with my thoughts and 3 is a logical reason for the big cat on top of the turret. I can see them using that at a Navy Days. I couldn`t think of any link to the QE`s until your suggestion.
Well done sir!

[Harley]

Terry, your pic No. 1 is definitely (I think) the "Queen Elizabeth" after her 1925-1927 reconstruction. Reconstructed similar to "Barham", but with a pole mainmast. "Barham" had a tripod mainmast.

Harley

[astraltrader]

Cheers Simon that ties in with JB`s excellent theory! Thanks mate.

[tjstoneman]

Not sure about the identification of Terry's picture No 1 as QUEEN ELIZABETH. In her 1926-27 refit, when the funnels were trunked, her after superstructure was increased in height to accommodate signals staff and equipment. She also had a signal yard on her maintopmast. Neither is visible in the photo. It's not BARHAM (which had a tripod mainmast), nor VALIANT (which had platforms for pompom directors on the foretop and screens round the foremost searchlight towers). That leaves MALAYA and WARSPITE, which were very similar at this stage; MALAYA's crest was a lion, which could explain the big cat on 'B' turret. I therefore think it's MALAYA, probably after November 1929 (when she joined the Atlantic Fleet - to which both Nelsons belonged) and before October 1934 when she paid off for refit.

[astraltrader]

Maybe TJS - it has to be said the cat looks more like a Tiger than a Lion!

[brian hill]

My apologies for an extremely out-of-date reply, but I've only just chanced across this enquiry.

I agree with Harley (03-04-2008 13.02) that the ship is an Iron Duke class. I'm pretty sure the ship is HMS Benbow. The voice pipes immediately beneath the overhanging Navigating Platform have exactly the same pattern as on a photo downloaded from the Internet. Voice pipes were not always identically placed on ships of the same class, and Marlborough's and Iron Duke's are quite different to those of Benbow (within small limits).

I hope I've uploaded the comparative picture of Benbow correctly. I'm not very au fait with either forums or computers.

Regards, Brian

[culverin]

ref #8 pic 2 glorious 1918 pic 5 tiger quite early

[jbryce1437]

Post #8 pic 7. I have a very similar pic captioned "british fleet 1938" with the lead ship being Royal Oak, no id's for the ships astern.

Jim