Strange Uniform for a Leading Seaman?

[Francis Stanley]

Here is a riddle for you stalwarts of this great forum.

The attached photo shows Ernest Legg who served 1916 - 1921, he was about 16 when he joined up.
places served, Scapa flow, and later HMS Calcutta C1919 - 1921
The photo was taken around the time of service on board Calcutta.
This uniform seems a bit strange for a leading hand does it not? (we think he was a seaman)
Anyone with suggestions as to why he would be wearing this and not the "fore and aft" rig?
Also the medal ribbons, we know he had a Victory medal, any idea what the other one could be

Thanks in anticipation

[Derek Dicker]

Hello Francis.
the only suggestion I can make is that he might be Maltese, perhaps a stwd or cook. Not too sure when the RN took recruits from the Island. I remember when I joined in 1957 all S&S branches did not wear fore and aft rig.

Derek (Bunts)

[Francis Stanley]

Derek
Thanks for the suggestion but he was most definitely from England

[Guz rating]

Derek is spot on Steward Cook Writer or Stores. I had one when I joined in 1956. The medals i'll have a look at my uncles he was in WW1.

Alan

[Francis Stanley]

Alan
You may have a point as he worked in stores at Priddy's hard after leaving the RN, so he may well have been a storsey. Thanks to both of you for your input

[siggy63]

Hello
Reading the above has prompted (eventually) another question along same lines, have got a few photos of Sparkers in fore/aft rig rather than square rig, any ideas why that would be?

Thanks
Danny

[Jan Steer]

Without seeing the photos to which you refer shipmate I can give you but two possible explanations:
In the fifties I believe there was a move to put sparkers in fore and aft rig but Lord Louis wouldn't have it. Maybe your pictures show some sort of trial period.
I remember too that in the early seventies when it was decided to modify jack's rig several ideas were advanced. This resulted in some peculiar concoctions like bell bottoms with a fore and aft jacket, and such. Several men had to wear these strange outfits out and about to let the troops have a look at what had been proposed. Later my beloved bell bottoms were replaced with trousers with a crease down the front much to my annoyance!
Maybe your photos depict this trial.
Its just a thought.

best wishes
Jan

[Derek Dicker]

Hi Francis, been doing a bit of reserch in my memory banks.
Prior to my wife and I getting married we went to see the vicar of the local church at Rockbear nr exeter, my good ladys parish, the vicar after finding out that I was Royal Navy, proceeded to show us photographs of himself in the Royal Naval Flying Service, he was an artisian in the rig shown in your photograph. I have since found a web site which might put some light on the information you require.

www.britairforce.com

Hope this helps

Derek (Bunts)

[Jan Steer]

Alan
You may have a point as he worked in stores at Priddy's hard after leaving the RN, so he may well have been a storsey. Thanks to both of you for your input

A Storsey?! Surely you mean a "Jack Dusty"?

best wishes
Jan

[stontamar]

The uniform is that worn by Officer's Stewards possibly either showing Ernest Arthur Legg L10050 born 15 April 1899 from Farnham in Hampshire or Ernest Alfred Legg L8705 born 15 February 1899 from Menheniot in Cornwall.

Would be interest to find out if either candidate fits the bill?

The medal ribbons are somewhat more problematic, identifying ribbons from black & white photographs is not always easy and to be honest I cannot immediately see either ribbon as being that issued for the Victory Medal or British War Medal. If as suggested he was 16 when he joined in 1916 these would be the two campaign medals he would possibly have an entitlement to and the the most likely for him to be wearing. The problem of identification may be exacerbated by the lighting!

Regards

stontamar

[QUOTE=Francis Stanley;75395]Here is a riddle for you stalwarts of this great forum.

The attached photo shows Ernest Legg who served 1916 - 1921, he was about 16 when he joined up.

[Francis Stanley]

Stontamar
He would be the Farnham Hampshire Legg and that number is on the side of his Victory medal :) Thank you, how did you find it by the way?

[Francis Stanley]

A Storsey?! Surely you mean a "Jack Dusty"?

best wishes
Jan

Jan,
yes a Jack dusty :) I forgot my Jack Speak, I have given my self a days 9's ;)

[siggy63]

Have dug around my photo albums and finally found one of the photos I have of a Sparker in fore/aft rig

Right arm - Telegraphist branch badge
Left arm - Leading Hand rate badge
Cap - Kings crown

Back of another photos that came with the pair dates them both late 1945

Danny

[Francis Stanley]

Danny
Yes I see that the rig was more common than I thought, the only difference is the tie

[Chieftain]

Ref: EA Legg and the official number quoted....from 1908 until 1925 the prefix L and the number allocated indicate " Cooks and Stewards"

The system was reviewed again in 1925.

Excerpt:

From the 1st January 1908 [which lasted until 1925] the Admiralty decided to add a PREFIX to a new series of numbers. They used the letters J, K, L and M, where 'J' became executive [seamen and communicators], 'K' for Stokers, 'L' for Cooks and Stewards and 'M' for the other three Branches listed.

In 1925, Admiralty introduced a major change in pay scales, so that those joining from this year would enter on a lower pay scale than those who were already serving whose pay would remain the same. To be able to readily recognise the men on the Lower pay scale from those on the Upper scale, they changed the Official Number system. At the time of the change, the official numbers of the four lettered prefix systems had reach J115433; K66973; L15101 and M39555, so to differentiate, they started yet another series of numbers and added the letter 'X'.

[steve roberts]

Hi All. I remeber the Medical Branch wore "Fore and Aft" rig until the name was changed from Sick Bay Steward to Sick Bay Attendant and the rig changed to "Square rig".Therefor I assume Stewards wore the same rig and changed about the same time. Regards Steve.:)

[Mike B]

Have dug around my photo albums and finally found one of the photos I have of a Sparker in fore/aft rig

Right arm - Telegraphist branch badge
Left arm - Leading Hand rate badge
Cap - Kings crown

Back of another photos that came with the pair dates them both late 1945

Danny

I wonder if he is a telegraphist special and as far as uniform was concerned was entitled to wear fore and aft rig like S&S, sick berth and coder branches. All of the latter had to move into square rig by 1961.
Mike B

[TACKLINE]

Telegraphists in 1945 all wore square rig,as did coders.

[Mike B]

Telegraphists in 1945 all wore square rig,as did coders.

I agree that Tels did not wear Class III rig in 1945, however further research reveals that, according to the the 1945 Navy List, all Radio Mechanics, who wore the sparkers branch badge, did wear Class III rig. It also seems that Coders wore Class III rig at sometime before 1956 because AFO 1807/56 titled "Uniform - JRs of the S&S, Sick Berth and Coder Branches - Change of Rig. This AFO promulgated arrangements for changing from Class III to Class II rig for among others, Coder branch ratings below the rate of confirmed Petty Officer.
Mike B