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astraltrader
02-09-2009, 18:14
One of our members Alan [Guz rating] recently provided us with some interesting posts about a Sailors cemetary situated just down the road from where he lives in Greenwich - known as the East Greenwich Pleasaunce. It is a quiet haven that contains a burial ground for around 3,000 sailors who spent their last days at the local Royal Hospital. Their remains were re-interred in 1875 when the original burial site, Goddard's Garden, in central Greenwich, was subject to disruption when the Greenwich railway was extended to the East Kent coast.

The memorial tablet, on the western wall of East Greenwich Pleasaunce, is dedicated to the memory of 3,000 pensioners of the Royal Hospital, whose remains now lie opposite.

The following posts about Alans visits to this cemetary are exactly as they appeared in a different part of the forum - The Wardroom.

Following requests from various other members including [Qpr] Dave and [Little] Harry, I have collated them all into this new thread.

Guz rating
03-09-2009, 15:16
Hello Bee,

I have just got back from the sailors cemetery in Greenwich. Just down the road, from where I live. I've got loads of shots of the grave markers. These I will download later. And take advice regarding posting. They are mostly ww1. Some go back to the mid 19th century. When I was down thire I could almost feel the sadness of the relatives. I was upset with the state of the collapsed head stones, broken grave surrounds. I will get in touch, with the Greenwich Royal Naval Ass. To see what we can do, I intend to post this as a thread to get as much feed- back as I can. I know the members of the wardroom will surport me, with there most welcome advice.

Good night Bee, talk to you later.

Alan

Bee
03-09-2009, 15:55
Well done Alan,

I'm sure you're local R.N.A. will come up with something....maybe it could be a good project for cadets??? Also, sometimes it helps to get the local paper covering the story...just a thought.

Looking forward to seeing your pictures when you get them scanned in...if you have any problems with the scanning the mods are good with their help. I would tell you how to do it...but I speak "female" logic (according to my husband)....:)....so it might be better to get one of the men :rolleyes:

The thread idea is a good one.

G'night from Uz in Oz

qprdave
03-09-2009, 15:55
You have my support, Alan

A thought occurred to me. Would it be any good contacting the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. They seem to be the people who might be able to help. But you are right, It might be better if you got the Support of the R.N.A. and perhaps the British Legion first.

Also, Bee's idea about getting the local Sea Cadet's and local newspaper involved is a good one. The press are good at making local authorities feel guilty!

Good luck

Dave

Guz rating
03-09-2009, 20:37
Hi Harry and Ivor, In case you have missed my last post about this could you please read it. I really would value your advice and suggestions on this matter. At the moment I am investigating who is responsible for the up keep of the sailors cemetery. There are 3000 sailors buried at "East Greenwich pleasance". Most of them veterans of Trafalgar. One of the headstones reads Captain Henry Parker R.N. Midshipman of the Belle isle, at Trafalgar. Died April 17th, aged 84. When I discover more I hope to post it in a new thread. I have down loaded the photo's they look okay, but I don't know how pusser it is to post them.

Regards Alan.

harry.gibbon
03-09-2009, 20:55
Alan the ideas/suggestions put forward since your posting #1482 seem totally sensible routes to follow.
May I add that it might be expeditious to make enquiries at the local council offices and/or library as to the ownership the sailors cemetary... military or church or civil authority for instance? It might even be private and/or bequeathed land! The old Greenwich RN College records may even hold a clue.

These are just my cursory thoughts at this stage. Hope it broadens the idea base for you mate.

Little h

Wafu
03-09-2009, 22:58
Hello Bee,

I have just got back from the sailors cemetery in Greenwich. Just down the road, from where I live. I've got loads of shots of the grave markers. These I will download later. And take advice regarding posting. They are mostly ww1. Some go back to the mid 19th century. When I was down thire I could almost feel the sadness of the relatives. I was upset with the state of the collapsed head stones, broken grave surrounds. I will get in touch, with the Greenwich Royal Naval Ass. To see what we can do, I intend to post this as a thread to get as much feed- back as I can. I know the members of the wardroom will surport me, with there most welcome advice.

Good night Bee, talk to you later.

Alan

The local councillors are always good for a hit, especially at voting time;)

Guz rating
04-09-2009, 01:21
Alan the ideas/suggestions put forward since your posting #1482 seem totally sensible routes to follow.
May I add that it might be expeditious to make enquiries at the local council offices and/or library as to the ownership the sailors cemetary... military or church or civil authority for instance? It might even be private and/or bequeathed land! The old Greenwich RN College records may even hold a clue.

These are just my cursory thoughts at this stage. Hope it broadens the idea base for you mate.

Little h

Thank you Harry for your post. The land was purchased by the Royal Navy for the sum of 6,000 thousand pounds, from The Westcombe Estates. The old sailors grave yard was in the way of a railway tunnel they wanted to drive. The 3000 remains were transferred. The sailors hospital was taken over by by the National Health as a trust. A few years ago when they rationalised the NHS the Greenwich Trust ceased to exit. So I think the problem is with the change over. But as far as i'm concerned they are still obligated for the upkeep of the cemetery. I will keep you informed about any progress I make next week. Thank you again Harry.

Alan

harry.gibbon
04-09-2009, 13:02
The Sailors Cemetery Greenwich:-

http://www.greenwich.gov.uk/Greenwich/YourEnvironment/GreenSpace/ParksGardens/Greenwich/HistoryOfEastGreenwichPleasaunce.htm

and

http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/labels/Open%20Spaces.html scroll down to nearly the end!!!

and this link is absolutely brimming full of info:-

http://fegp.typepad.com/friends/history/

Little h

Guz rating
04-09-2009, 18:29
The Sailors Cemetery Greenwich:-

http://www.greenwich.gov.uk/Greenwich/YourEnvironment/GreenSpace/ParksGardens/Greenwich/HistoryOfEastGreenwichPleasaunce.htm

and

http://www.thegreenwichphantom.co.uk/labels/Open%20Spaces.html scroll down to nearly the end!!!

and this link is absolutely brimming full of info:-

http://fegp.typepad.com/friends/history/

Little h

Thank you Harry for the great links. I learnt more about the "Pleasaunce" in the past hour than I did from the good intended misinformation over the past twenty years. Thank you again Harry for your help it's very appreciated.

Alan. (The Greenwich Phantom)

PS This is the second time I have written this post. I hit the submit reply button,and it disappeared. It must be me.

Guz rating
12-09-2009, 01:35
Guzz. Have you tried the Greenwich R.N.A. yet?

Thank you Dave for reminding me. I wrote this earlier on today and lost it in the ether.

I first phoned "Greenwich Council" on Tuesday as they are responsible for the upkeep of the park and grave yard. But not graves head stones, or grave surrounds. I then contacted the "War Graves Commission". They said the W.G.C's
remit is for war graves from the First World War. I said these sailors are vets from "Trafalgar," and many other naval historic engagements. I asked if she could direct me to someone, who might be able
to help. She said there is nobody that she knew of. I asked what the legal position would be if I did the work myself. She said the graves are the responsibility of the relatives. I then phoned the R.N.A. they directed me to the Greenwich branch. I phoned a Mr Boyton and left a couple messages to no avail. I will try him again on the weekend. I also think a call to the Admiralty won't go amiss. If I get no response from them. I will use my nephews who are lawyers. I talked to them about it at my birthday, and they are willing to help. The youngest is back in the London office in two weeks, It will be good to have him on the ground. And his Dad can keep him on the case. I will keep you informed of the progress as it happens.

Alan

harry.gibbon
12-09-2009, 14:43
Alan, your post #1694 great efforts being made by you Sir, you are to be applauded for your tenacity. I wish you every success! Little h

Guz rating
12-09-2009, 16:42
Thank you Harry for your response. i am determined to get something done. I would feel guilty visiting the graves, if I did not try my best.

Kindest regards

Alan.

qprdave
12-09-2009, 17:22
Guzz
Can I add my "well done" to your efforts. May I repeat a suggestion that I made some time ago. If you get no joy from the Authorities, you could try the local Sea Cadets and get the media involved. If you could get both of them involved, it would be good publicity for both. The Cemetary and the Sea Cadets.

Dave

Guz rating
12-09-2009, 17:37
Guzz
Can I add my "well done" to your efforts. May I repeat a suggestion that I made some time ago. If you get no joy from the Authorities, you could try the local Sea Cadets and get the media involved. If you could get both of them involved, it would be good publicity for both. The Cemetary and the Sea Cadets.

Dave

Thank you Dave,

The Sea Cadets is a great idea, I have approached my local paper. they said they would be in touch. The Sea cadets gives this a real human touch.

Alan.

qprdave
13-09-2009, 18:05
Guzz

Thanks for posting the Gravestone in another thread. These must be saved and looked after. I hope that you efforts will bear fruit.

Good luck

Dave (In a Dressing Gown!!!!)

Guz rating
13-09-2009, 21:07
Guzz

Thanks for posting the Gravestone in another thread. These must be saved and looked after. I hope that you efforts will bear fruit.

Good luck

Dave (In a Dressing Gown!!!!)

Dave when I saw the head stones I nearly cried mate. I was looking at a major part of Naval history. The important part, the men who manned the ships. Allowed to crumble away. As though they did not matter.

Alan.

PS Dave I will be contacting the Greenwich Sea Cadets on Tuesday evening.

Guz rating
13-09-2009, 23:14
I thought you might like to see this photo.

Alan.http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56100&stc=1&d=1252883535

qprdave
14-09-2009, 00:02
Alan

Here's a bit about HMS Belleisle that Henry Parker served on

HMS Belleisle
The Belleisle was originally the French Formidable which was captured in 1795, and renamed,since there was already a Formidable in the British Navy.

In 1803 HMS Belleisle joined Nelson’s fleet in the Mediterranean where she served for the next two years in the blockade of Toulon, and took part in the chase of Villeneuve’s fleet to the West Indies. On return she called briefly at Plymouth before rejoining the British fleet off the Spanish coast, and in the Battle of Trafalgar sailed into action second in Collingwood’s line between the Royal Sovereign and the Mars.

Hargood’s steady disciplined approach to the enemy was noted by a young 16 year old Lieutenant Nicolas in the Royal Marines onboard Belleisle, who described the ‘eastern horizon as covered by ships’ of the French and Spanish fleets. Soon after 9 am. Captain Hargood sent his crew to breakfast, and Nicolas commented on the subdued atmosphere in the wardroom as fellow officers conversed quietly and inevitably speculated on their fate in the battle. The instructions from the captain were clear and concise as they aimed for the black hulled Spanish Santa Ana (112 guns), ‘Gentlemen, I have only to say that I shall pass under the stern of that ship. Put in two round shot and then a grape (shot), and give her that.’ During this approach Belleisle had to endure fire from the ships in the enemy line which caused casualties and damage, but when it was suggested that the ship turn to allow her to fire a broadside in return Hargood firmly replied, ‘... we are ordered to go through the line, and go through the line she shall, by God’.

Belleisle continued in silence until she passed under the stern of the Santa Ana which received a full broadside, and with military precision simultaneously delivered a broadside from the other side into another ship. Watching her from HMS Victory, Nelson exclaimed ’Nobly done, Hargood’. Hargood hoped to engage the French Indomptable (80 guns) but Belleisle was run on board by the French Fougueux (74 guns) and they remained locked together for 20 minutes before the French ship drifted away. Both badly damaged each other and Belleisle lost her mizen mast, and then both main mast and fore mast as she was engaged by the French Achille (74 guns) and Neptune (84 guns). Two Spanish ships also joined this battle which Belleisle had to fight single handed until other British ships intervened. The masts and wreckage on her decks and over the sides impeded replies from her own guns but some were levered into stern ports to continue the fight, and although her ensigns were shot away a flag was tied to a pike which was lashed in turn to the stump of the main mast to show that she was still in action.

The Belleisle was the only British ship to be totally dismasted at Trafalgar, and a quarter of her crew became casualties 33 dead and 93 wounded. Captain Hargood was himself knocked down by a splinter, and was later observed calmly sharing a bunch of grapes with the Lieutenant of marines while continuing in command. Belleisle took possession of the Spanish Argonauto (80 guns) when she surrendered sending Lieutenant of Marines John Owen across in the one surviving boat with a party of seamen, ‘On getting over Argonauto’s side I found no living person on her deck, but on making my way over numerous dead and a confusion of wreck across the quarterdeck I was met by the second Captain at the cabin door, who gave me his sword, which I returned, desiring him to keep it for Captain Hargood to whom I should soon introduce him. With him I accordingly returned to the Belleisle leaving the Master of the Belleisle in charge’. Exhausted captors and captive then joined Hargood for tea.

Dismasted and out of control the crew of Belleisle attempted to rig jury sails when the battle ceased, and she was eventually taken in tow by the frigate Naiad. Once at Gibraltar Belleisle was temporarily refitted to return to England where pemanent repairs were made at Plymouth. In 1806 she returned to duty with the Channel Fleet and later sailed to the West Indies and American waters, where she saw further action. She was sold out of the Navy in 1814.

astraltrader
14-09-2009, 00:06
Interesting stuff Dave - but why in the Wardroom??:confused:

qprdave
14-09-2009, 00:34
Terry.

I don't really know. I just put it under the picture that Guzz posted of Henry Parker who served on the HMS Belleisle at Trafalgar

It could be that I don't want to leave the Wardroom in my dressing gown!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave

Guz rating
14-09-2009, 14:08
Interesting stuff Dave - but why in the Wardroom??:confused:

Terry,

My interest in the "Belleisle" and Captain Henry Parker. Came about after a visit to a little park in my locality. The park contains the remains of three thousand sailors. All in some way connected to the Greenwich Naval Hospital. My reason for posting on the wardroom thread. Was to test the water. The response and valued advice I received encouraged me to take it further. I will now take take the information I have gathered to the wider forum. And I would be very grateful for any advice, as to the best thread to put it on. I respect and admire the time and efford you put in on our behalf. I worry that the wardroom is seen as a bit irrelevant. But for for the wardroom I would never have posted. When I first joined I read all the posts on the various threads and felt I had nothing to contribute. I would not dare try to speak for Ivor, but I'm sure the wardroom became what he intended. A place to wind down after a hard day on the Threads. And sound out ideas.

Regards

Alan.

Guz rating
14-09-2009, 14:23
Terry.

I don't really know. I just put it under the picture that Guzz posted of Henry Parker who served on the HMS Belleisle at Trafalgar

Dave

Dave
Thank for the post about the "Belleisle" I really enjoyed reading it.I have a picture of a painting of HMS Belleisle. When I find it I will post.

Alan.

astraltrader
14-09-2009, 18:18
Alan and Dave - if you want me to put the posts about Captain Parker and HMS Belleisle into a new thread or something please let me know either here or by PM, and I will see what I can do for you.

I will need a list of the post numbers from here that you would want moved, along with your preferred choice of thread title.

I will leave the decision up to you.:)

qprdave
14-09-2009, 18:38
Thanks Terry I am sure that we will want your help. We will get back to you shortly

astraltrader
14-09-2009, 22:01
I will do my best - has anybody a thread title that they wish me to use??

qprdave
14-09-2009, 22:10
What about as Alan suggested:

The sailors Cemetery - East Greenwich Pleasaunce

astraltrader
15-09-2009, 02:08
Anyway Alan and guys - I have put all of the posts together and moved them to a new home here. I have "tidied up" a couple of the posts for easier reading but essentially they are as originally written.

I hope all this meets with your approval. Funnily enough as I was doing this I reached and passed my 5,000th post and I can`t think of a nicer way of doing this!:)

To all members reading this - could you please start at the begining of the thread as despite the dates on the posts it is completely new.

qprdave
15-09-2009, 03:31
Another Burial at the Cemetery

Admiral Sir Astley Cooper Key, GCB, ADC, FRS (18 January 1821 - 3 March 1888), English admiral, was born in London, and entered the navy in 1833.

His father was Charles Aston Key (1793-1849), a well-known surgeon, the pupil of Sir Astley Cooper, and his mother was the latter's niece. After distinguishing himself in active service abroad, on the South American station (1844-1846), in the Baltic during the Crimean War (CB 1855) and China (1857), Key was appointed in 1858 a member of the Royal Commission on national defence, in 1860 Captain of the steam reserve at Devonport, and in 1863 captain of HMS Excellent and superintendent of the Royal Naval College.

He had a considerable share in advising as to the reorganization of administration, and in 1866, having become rear-admiral, was made Director of Naval Ordnance. On 4 June 1868, he was admitted a Fellow of the Royal Society. Between 1869 and 1872 he held the offices of Superintendent of Portsmouth Dockyard, Superintendent of Malta Dockyard, and second in command in the Mediterranean.

In 1872 he was made president of the projected Royal Naval College at Greenwich, which was organized by him, and after its opening in 1873 he was made a KCB and a vice-admiral. In 1876 he was appointed commander-in-chief on the North American and West Indian station. Having become full admiral in 1878, he was appointed in 1879 principal ADC, and soon afterwards First Naval Lord, retaining this post till 1885. In 1882 he was made GCB. He died at Maidenhead on the 3 March 1888.

Biography

Memoirs of Admiral the Right Honble. Sir Astley Cooper Key, G.C.B., D.C.L., F.R.S., Etc by P. H Colomb


Alan

Have you seen this web page of a few that are buried there. Seems that there are some important people there including a French Ambassador to England

The Greenwich branch of the Royal Naval Association holds an annual Service of Remembrance, on the Sunday nearest to 21 October (Trafalgar Day).

He has a Great Granddaughter. Emma Charlotte Cooper-Key was born on 23 December 1958
From 1985, her married name became Chittenden. From 1989, her married name became Abdy Collins

He has a Great Grandson. Linden Cooper-Key was born on 23 December 1958 at Islington, London, England

He has a Great, Great Granddaughter. Pandora Lorna Mary Cooper-Key born 1973.


http://www.greenwich.gov.uk/Greenwich/YourEnvironment/GreenSpace/ParksGardens/Greenwich/EastGreenwichPleasaunceCemetery.htm?colorscheme=3

qprdave
15-09-2009, 04:13
Captain Mark Halpen Sweny

The gravestone of Captain Mark Halpen Sweny, which is in the Pleasaunce. He was born in 1785 and joined the navy in 1798. At the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805 he was acting lieutenant on board the Colossus and was severely wounded. He was wounded again when serving as lieutenant in the Africa in 1808. He survived to the end of the war and had the satisfaction of being the senior lieutenant in the Northumberland warship that took Napoleon to exile on St Helena. In 1838 he was eventually promoted to captain. He received a pension for his wounds and ended his days in Greenwich Hospital. He died in 1865 and the inscription on his gravestone reads: ‘Mark Halpen Sweny, Captain Royal Navy, Served in H.M.S. “Colossus” at Trafalgar, Died 25th. Novr 1865, Aged 82 Years’. There are one or two other gravestones of Trafalgar veterans here, but many more lie in unmarked graves within the Pleasaunce, having been moved from the earlier cemetery.

qprdave
15-09-2009, 04:35
Dr. Sir John Liddell

Just a small obituary

Guz rating
15-09-2009, 15:49
Hi Dave,

Loads of great information, I have the headstones of most of the people you mentioned. With the exception of the ones ringing the graveyard. I will get pictures of them then the weather clears up. You don't have those complaints any more Dave. About Admiral Ashley Cooper and his G.G. Grand daughter I may have her phone number. Today I phoned all the sites I could find from Devon to London. Even the 1809 Club no one was aware of the cemetery. Tomorrow I have an appointment with Peter Van De Muir Of the Greenwich National Maritime. I will let you know how if goes. I was thinking this must be the largest concentration of "Trafalgar" veterans in the country. I think Dave this may be a long road. But a worth while one.
http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56209&stc=1&d=1http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56210&stc=1&d=1253029592253029591
Alan.

Bee
15-09-2009, 15:57
Great work Guz and all,
This is really starting to take off. I'm amazed that a graveyard of such significance had been let "fade". Thankyou Guz for bringing it back into the public focus.
Also well done Little h and qprDave for "unearthing" more info. about these men who deserve to be remembered.
Plus thankyou Terry for getting the thread up and running...and congrats on your 5000 plus postings.

Regards,
Bee :)
p.s. Looking forward to reading more.

astraltrader
15-09-2009, 16:14
Thanks Bee - appreciated.

qprdave
15-09-2009, 17:26
Alan

If you could post some more pictures of the Gravestones and see what we can dig up (no pun intended).

I agree with you. This could be a long haul!!!!!!!

harry.gibbon
15-09-2009, 22:10
All right boys marry-up for the long haul; two-six and with a big heave we will I am sure help Alan with anything towards which he directs us.

Terry you've done an grand job; and

Dave your role in the provision of info for us all about those interred is both most interesting and invaluable to the overall effort.

Hope the Sea Cadets idea reaps rewards also

Little h

Guz rating
15-09-2009, 22:35
Dave I'll start down loading now. By the way, I phoned the Sea Cadets really nice helpful people. I spoke to the P.O. She said she would leave a massage for the commanding officer to phone me. She saw no problem with the Sea Cadets tiding up the graves...... I'll down five Photo's at a time, it won't take 10.

Alan.

qprdave
15-09-2009, 22:43
That is good news about the Sea Cadets. You need to try and get the local media to come down and get some pics in the local paper. They will deserve the publicity. It might even help recruitment and get a few more kids off the streets.

Guz rating
15-09-2009, 22:48
Sailors headstones.It will only it only download two at a time.

Alan.http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56268&stc=1&d=1253054534http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56269&stc=1&d=1253054534

Guz rating
15-09-2009, 22:57
http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56270&stc=1&d=1253055170http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56271&stc=1&d=1253055170http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56272&stc=1&d=1253055170

Guz rating
15-09-2009, 23:10
http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56273&stc=1&d=1253056107http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56274&stc=1&d=1253056107http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56275&stc=1&d=1253056107http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56276&stc=1&d=1253056107http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56278&stc=1&d=1253056107

qprdave
15-09-2009, 23:18
B Henderson

London Belle
HENDERSON, Bruce, Seaman, RNR (Shetland Section), L 465, Died of illness

London Belle

In 1892, the Victoria Steamboat Association received the large new Koh-I-Noor, and the London, Woolwich & Clacton-on-Sea SS Co ordered a larger steamer to match her. This was the London Belle of 1893, which at 280 feet and 738 gross tons was to remain the largest vessel in the Belle Steamers fleet. She was the first Thames steamer to have triple expansion engines, which were fitted to all subsequent Belle Steamers. She operated the main daily sailing from London to Clacton for most of her Belle Steamers career, later joined by a smaller steamer which would continue to Yarmouth. After war service she did not return to servoce until 1923, making no sailing for the P.S.M. syndicate. She ran for the Royal Sovereign Steamship Company and the associated R.S Steamship Company mainly from London to Margate and Ramsgate (the other remaining Belle Steamers passed to the connected East Anglian Steamship Company which ran the Essex services). She was for breaking up in 1929.

Guz rating
15-09-2009, 23:43
That is good news about the Sea Cadets. You need to try and get the local media to come down and get some pics in the local paper. They will deserve the publicity. It might even help recruitment and get a few more kids off the streets.
[SIZE="3"

That's a great idea Dave as soon as I get a date from CPO Webster I'll notify the South London Press. Nice picture of the steam ship. But downloading the headstones is a pain in the arse.:eek: Some times I can down four, other times it times out. never mind it's all in a good cause.

Alan.[/SIZE]:D:D

Guz rating
15-09-2009, 23:50
http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56284&stc=1&d=1253058590http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56285&stc=1&d=1253058590http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56286&stc=1&d=1253058590

Guz rating
15-09-2009, 23:57
http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56287&stc=1&d=1253059026http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56288&stc=1&d=1253059026

Guz rating
16-09-2009, 00:11
http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56289&stc=1&d=1253059804http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56290&stc=1&d=1253059804http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56291&stc=1&d=1253059804

Guz rating
16-09-2009, 00:20
http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56292&stc=1&d=1253060409http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56293&stc=1&d=1253060409http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56294&stc=1&d=1253060409

Guz rating
16-09-2009, 00:27
http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56295&stc=1&d=1253060763http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56295&stc=1&d=1253060763http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56297&stc=1&d=1253060763

astraltrader
16-09-2009, 01:12
Alan [Guzz] - Could you please see my PM.

qprdave
16-09-2009, 03:11
Hailey W.G.

Ordinary Seaman RN J/19917
HMS Europa
2nd October 1915
HAILEY, William G, Ordinary Seaman, J 19917,Died of illness

HMS Europa was a ship of the Diadem-class of protected cruiser in the Royal Navy. She was built by J&G Thompson, of Clydebank and launched on 20 March 1897. On the outbreak of war she was assigned to the Ninth Cruiser Squadron operating in the Atlantic and in 1915 she was operating off Moudros, participating in the Dardanelles Campaign, for which she received the battle honour Dardanelles 1915 . She survived the War and was sold on 15 September 1920 and broken up in Genoa.

qprdave
16-09-2009, 03:16
Holman, Thomas Holloway

Captain RN

1804 Joined Royal Navy 3rd February
? Wife Elizabeth
1828 Lieutenant. Daughter Ellen Susanna Baptised at Swanage
1849 Commander
1866 Died, 13th March

qprdave
16-09-2009, 03:27
I have a feeling that the Seamen on the "SS" ships were not on Royal Navy duty but were RNR serving on normal working merchant ships. Although they might have been on there if the merchantman was armed. But there again, their rate is Seaman and not "Ordinary" or "Able" Seamen

qprdave
16-09-2009, 19:31
Kemp P.

Sub Lt. (A) RNVR
KEMP, Percy, Ty/Act/Sub Lieutenant (A), RNVR, FAA, 769 Sqn, Condor, 11 December 1942, air crash, killed
769 Squadron was a Training and Ancillary Squadron

Guz rating
16-09-2009, 20:30
Kemp P.

Sub Lt. (A) RNVR
KEMP, Percy, Ty/Act/Sub Lieutenant (A), RNVR, FAA, 769 Sqn, Condor, 11 December 1942, air crash, killed
769 Squadron was a Training and Ancillary Squadron

Dave I meant to ask you this before, it concerns fatalitles on board peacetime ships. About eight or nine on board the Eagle in four weeks when I was aboard her. Double figures on board the Sarratoga. Air crew crashing and ditching, and others I can't recall. I know I was shocked.

Alan

Dreadnought
17-09-2009, 15:56
Hi Alan,

Thanks for posting the headstones of some of the GRHS instructors. Particularly that of James Spencer. If you read my Great Uncle's memoirs regarding the school (posted in my 'Royal Hospital School' thread), he mentions Spencer, who was in fact his Instructor in charge of Company Number Six.

In H.D.T Turners's book about the school, he makes some observations about the people buried in the Pleasance. Some of which you have discussed here and featured. I will leave them in the text anyway. These observations were made by an Old Boy in 1977 ..

" .... there are still about 200 graves and headstones remaining in four separate little groups. The most impressive of these is one with a full size anchor on the grave, and is of a Rear Admiral who was President of the Royal Naval College. The most interesting grave is Captain Edmund Cooper-Key's grave; he was Captain Superintendent of the School from 1906 to 1922. He died in 1933. His Father was the first President of the Royal Naval College, Greenwhich and was Vice-Admiral Sir Astley Cooper-Key.

Other members of the School staff buried there include Lieut. Commander S.T.P. Yeo, who was Chief Officer of the School from 1925 to 1933, and Captain Charles Burney who was Superintendent of the School from 1870 until 1887.

The following graves of instructors who are buried with their wives include Henry Williams, who was at the School for 21 years and died in 1903 aged 59; Arthur Daniels who was at the School for 22 years died 1904; Alfred Randall who died in 1908 aged 68 years and Walter Maby who was at the School for 20 years and died in 1929 aged 65 years. Other graves include two Headmasters, Albert Escott F.R.A.S who died in 1891 aged 51 and George Pulsford F.R.A.S who died 1899.

There are a few graves of young boys between the ages of 12 and 16 but only one that actually states he was a Royal Hospital Schoolboy. This is Owen Sexton who died in 1932 aged 15.

There is also the grave of Benjamin Bevans who was for 20 years Verger and Yeoman of Greenwhich Royal Hospital Chapel and died in 1927 aged 84 years. Further interesting headstones include Thomas Joseph Mott, Crimean veteran who died in 1913 aged 72 years and was Seamanship Instructor to King George Vth, Sir John Liddell K.C.B, M.C, F.R.S, Main Director of the Medical Department of the Royal Navy who died in 1868. John Davidson M.D.C.B, Inspector General R.N, who died in January 1881 aged 64 years."

Don't know how many of those you have spotted ...??!!

Clive

qprdave
17-09-2009, 16:12
Memoirs of Admiral Cooper Key


http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CIoJAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA415&dq=cooper+keys&lr=&as_brr=1&ei=PF-ySta0FoaskAT7ksGDBA#v=onepage&q=cooper%20keys&f=false

qprdave
17-09-2009, 16:19
Enlarged Obituary of Sir Astley Cooper Key


Sir Astley Cooper Key, born in 1821, was the second son of Mr. Charles Aston Key, Surgeon in Ordinary to H.R.H. the late Prince Consort, his mother being the daughter of the Rev. Samuel Lovick Cooper, of Great Yarmouth. He was early destined to the sea, and was educated at the Naval College, Portsmouth, where he distinguished himself, obtaining the first medal and a lieutenant's commission in the navy, which he entered in 1835. His career in the service was remarkable and his promotion rapid. In 1844, at the age of 23, when junior lieutenant of H.M.S. Gorgon, that vessel was stranded off Montevideo. Lieutenant Key rescued the ship, and was officially mentioned in despatches for his services on the occasion. The wreck of the Gorgon brought out in him that power of applying science to the wants of the navy which subsequently distinguished him; and his book descriptive of the operations undertaken by him, and which resulted in the recovery of the Gorgon, displayed marked ability and clearness of thought. In 1845, the following year, he was wounded in the action of the Obligado while in command of the Fanny, and there displayed a gallantry which earned his early promotion to the rank of commander. After this Commander Key served for three years in the Bulldog on the coasts of Italy and Sicily, and was made a captain in 1850. He served in command of the Amphion in the Baltic, taking part in the capture of the forts of Bomarsund and other operations. At the end of the war, when the honours were distributed, he was nominated a C.B. In the following year, 1650, he married

Charlotte Lavinia, youngest daughter of Mr. Edmund A. M'Neill, of Cushendun. county Antrim. In 1857, being placed in command of the Sanspareil and a squadron of gunboats, he served at C&l- cutta during the Indian Mutiny, and received the thanks of the Governor- General. His next exploit was when serving in China in 1858, where he commanded a battalion of seamen a! the capture of Canton, and where be secured, with his own hand, Commissioner Yeh as he was in the act of escaping over a paling at the back ot his yamen. Yeh, who is said to have ordered the beheading of about 100,000 rebels, was sent as a prisoner to Calcutta, where he died peacefully in 1859.

On the signing of the treaty of peace at Tientsin by Lord Elgin and Baron Gros in June 1858, Captain Cooper Key returned to England, and was chosen to represent the Navy on the Royal Commission which was appointed to consider the state of our defences. At that time great excitement prevailed in this country respecting the action of the French Government in building the plated frigate Gloire, which was the first ironclad steam frigate built, and was the immediate precursor of the Warrior, our first ironclad steam frigate and for a long time the largest vessel in the world except the Great Eastern. In 1860 Captain Cooper Key became captain of the Steam Ordinary at Devonport. After remaining three years in this post he passed to the Excellent, where he found himself in first charge of the great development of the iron plate and the heavy gun. It will be remembered that it was at this time that Sir Edward Be»d,

who had already built the Enterprise as a specimen of an ironclad seagoing vessel, was appointed Chief Constructor of the Royal Navy. The great changes in gunnery necessitated the creation of a new office at Whitehall, and Captain (afterwards Rear-Admiral) Cooper Key filled the post of Director-General of Naval Ordnance until 1869, when he became Superintendent of Portsmouth Dockyard. He was next appointed second in command in the Mediterranean and Superintendent of Malta Dockyard. At the end of 1872 he was appointed President of the Royal Naval College, Greenwich, and filled this post for three years, being appointed Vice- Admiral in 1873 ; and in January, 1876, he became Commander-in-Chief on the North America and West Indies station. About this time he married Evelyn, daughter of Signor Vincenzo Bartolucci and Clementina Dundas, of Carron Hall, Stirlingshire. He was promoted Admiral in 1878, and in 1879 he was appointed Principal Naval Aide-de-Camp to the Queen. In 1880 the University of Oxford conferred on him the honorary degree of D.C.L.; and two years later, for his services in the Egyptian expedition of 1882, he was made a G.C.B. Since 1879 Sir A. Cooper Key held the office of Principal Naval Lord of the Admiralty under two successive Administrations, and he was sworn a Privy Councillor in 1884. He was placed on the retired list of Admirals in 1886, since which time he principally resided at Laggan House, Maidenhead, where he died on March 3, after a very brief illness.

qprdave
17-09-2009, 16:29
Captain Edmund Moore Cooper-Key

Captain Edmund Moore Cooper-Key was the son of Admiral Rt. Hon. Sir Astley Cooper-Key.2 He married Florence Margaret Penelope Wigram, daughter of Captain Henry James Wigram and Penelope Emily Eyre, on 2 June 1898.2 He died on 25 July 1933.
Captain Edmund Moore Cooper-Key was invested as a Companion, Order of the Bath (C.B.).2 He was invested as a Member, Royal Victorian Order (M.V.O.).2 He gained the rank of Captain in the service of the Royal Navy.1 He lived at Landford, Fleet, Hampshire, England.

Guz rating
17-09-2009, 17:03
Clive,

When the remains were removed from Goddards Park the original grave yard. To the current resting place, the officers they buried in the east of the park. The graves of the seamen were buried in communal pits with markers. Containing names d.o.b. and place of birth. Unfortunately all missing. I have been informed by the National Greenwich Maritime Museum. Of two Portland stone tablets set into the wall. On the East side of the park, behind some bushes, but badly weathered. I'll see what I can see when I get down there again. I will try doing a rubbing, sometimes that works. There is a record of all the people buried in the cemetery. The guy I spoke to, was not sure were they are kept. I will see what I can find out, from the National Archives.

I have about 32 photographs of the headstones, Which was to show people what was been allowed to fall into disrepair. And very must an important part of our Naval history. A lot of the men interned in the Pleasunce were vets of Trafalgar and the Crimea. I will look out for the graves you mentioned. And I will send you a set if you want them.

Regards

Alan.

qprdave
29-09-2009, 23:13
Obituary of Captain Moubray

qprdave
30-09-2009, 00:03
Commander Robert Hussey Moubray

Pre 1837 Joined
1845 Lieutenant
1864 15th June Lt. R.H. Moubray to HMS Pembroke
1864 On the 16th Dec 1846. at Abbot's Ripton Church, Huntingdonshire. by the Rev. William H. Rooper. William H. Moubray, Esq R.N., Son of Lieutenant-Colonel Sir Robert Moubray, K.O.H. of Cockairnle, Fifeshire. to Selina Mary Anna, fourth daughter of John Bonfoy Rooper, Esq., of Abbot's Ripton
1866 17th May Promoted to Retired Commander

Guz rating
14-10-2009, 23:58
Commander Robert Hussey Moubray

Pre 1837 Joined
1845 Lieutenant
1864 15th June Lt. R.H. Moubray to HMS Pembroke
1864 On the 16th Dec 1846. at Abbot's Ripton Church, Huntingdonshire. by the Rev. William H. Rooper. William H. Moubray, Esq R.N., Son of Lieutenant-Colonel Sir Robert Moubray, K.O.H. of Cockairnle, Fifeshire. to Selina Mary Anna, fourth daughter of John Bonfoy Rooper, Esq., of Abbot's Ripton
1866 17th May Promoted to Retired Commander

Hello Dave and Terry,

An update on The Sailors Cemetery I have contacted several organisations in and around Greenwich with interest in heritage and naval matters since I arrived back from the North. Today I spoke to an inspector of graves who told me, I could not refurbish the graves, without the permission of the descendants. And I anyone did without this permission they could be leaving themselves open to prosecution. I did find out about the little markers of the lower deck sailors, which are all gone now. But the records still exists somewhere I was thinking of asking Tim as reluctant as In am imposing on this time, if he would have any idea were they might be located.

Regards

Alan

Neumann
27-03-2017, 21:08
This thread seems to have petered out, so is anyone still interested?

I recently found the references to the burial registers of Greenwich Hospital, it's school, and the Royal Naval Asylum. For example the Royal Naval Asylum register, which runs for 50 years from 1807, contains the names of 219 people, including over 170 pupils, whose funerals were presided over by the school's chaplain. The first death was of Sarah Skinner, aged 8 years, on 24th October 1807, just a few days after the RNA moved to Greenwich from Paddington. These records are in the National Archives at Kew; The RNA Death Register is in reference RG4/1679, a nonconformist register, and some, at least, of the Greenwich Hospital and Royal Hospital School Death Registers appear in RG8/16 as nonconformist records too.

I would be interested to know if anyone got any further with this topic.