HMS Calgarian

[linda555@btinternet.com]

my grandfather served on HMS Calgarian from Liverpool, does anyone out there have relatives who also served on her, can't find any information, I know she was torpedoed off Rathlin Island in 1918, but any other info would be greatly appreciated, thanks, my grandfathers name was James Pickersgill from Liverpool.

[SCRG1970]

Linda

HMS CALGARIAN was an Armed Merchant Cruiser Hired on 15.9.1914. She was torpedeod and sunk by U19 off Raithlin Island on 1.3.18.

Unfortunately I dont know her history before she was taken up into the Royal Navy.

Regards

Gerry

[astraltrader]

A not very good picture of Calgarian in service as an armed merchant cruiser plus a postcard of her before as an Allan line Liner...

[davemc]

My grandfather, too, served in HMS Calgarian right until it was sunk by U19 off Rathlin Island in 1918. His name was David Sutherland from Avoch on the Black Isle in Ross and Cromarty. He was a fisherman and in the RNR, so was called up in 1914.

He told me a few stories about life on board - and I remember in particular his account of the sinking. He ended up in the water with two other sailors - one badly injured - and astonishingly they were picked up by the submarine. He was taken back to Germany in U19 and spent the last months of the war as a POW. He returned home in 1919. The family has photos of him in naval uniform - with HMS Calgarian on his hat-band. One sits in front of me on my desk as I write. We also have some taken in the prisoner of war camp by the Germans and sent home via the Red Cross. He died in 1965.

I have read various short on-line accounts of the sinking, but have never seen a reference to any British seamen being taken prisoner in the action.

[Dreadnought]

Hi Linda, a very warm welcome to World Naval Ships Forums. I have moved your thread to this section. which is set up specifically to help people who are researching the naval history of family members

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[stontamar]

Linda

HMS CALGARIAN was an Armed Merchant Cruiser Hired on 15.9.1914. She was torpedeod and sunk by U19 off Raithlin Island on 1.3.18.

Unfortunately I dont know her history before she was taken up into the Royal Navy.

Regards

Gerry

Hi Gerry CALGARIAN was only completed by Fairfield Shipbuilding & Engineering Co Ltd, Glasgow (Yard Number 487) for the Allan Line Steamship Company on 16 March 1914. She conducted he maiden voyage to Canada in May of that year and was hired by the Admiralty as an Armed Merchant Cruiser on 15 September 1914.

Regards

stontamar

[stontamar]

My grandfather, too, served in HMS Calgarian right until it was sunk by U19 off Rathlin Island in 1918. His name was David Sutherland from Avoch on the Black Isle in Ross and Cromarty. He was a fisherman and in the RNR, so was called up in 1914.

He told me a few stories about life on board - and I remember in particular his account of the sinking. He ended up in the water with two other sailors - one badly injured - and astonishingly they were picked up by the submarine. He was taken back to Germany in U19 and spent the last months of the war as a POW. He returned home in 1919. The family has photos of him in naval uniform - with HMS Calgarian on his hat-band. One sits in front of me on my desk as I write. We also have some taken in the prisoner of war camp by the Germans and sent home via the Red Cross. He died in 1965.

I have read various short on-line accounts of the sinking, but have never seen a reference to any British seamen being taken prisoner in the action.

Hi davemc - this is an interesting story as accounts of the sink of HMS CALGARIAN. Reports state that she was hit by a single torpedo as she approached Rathin Island. The account goes on to state that the ship did not sink at this point and she was surrounded by no less than 7 destroyers, 2 sloops and 11 trawlers. U19 apparently penetrated this cordon and hit her with another two torpedoes which finally sank the vessel.

The question is with all this action and the number of RN vessels in attendance how did U19 manage to surface and pick up three survivors?

over to others!

Regards

stontamar

[qprdave]

Here's a report of the sinking of HMS Calgarian, published in The Times on the 7th Mar 1918

Dave

[davemc]

Here's a report of the sinking of HMS Calgarian, published in The Times on the 7th Mar 1918

Dave

Many thanks for this which I had not previously seen and to stontamar for commenting on my previous message.

It does seem incredible that my grandfather was picked up by the submarine given the proximity of RN ships. It's almost fifty years since I heard the story, so my memory may be playing tricks. However, I don't think I'm getting that fact wrong. I can only surmise that he was in the water for some time and the U boat was able to surface under cover of darkness.

That being said, I also seem to remember my grandfather talking about the U boat surfacing and shelling the ship. Could it be that I'm eliding two incidents - with the second being the occasion on which he was taken prisoner? It would seem incredibly unlucky for him to survive the torpedoing of the Calgarian, only to be sunk again and taken prisoner all in the last 8 months of the war.

I guess access to his war service record would throw light on the puzzle.

[stontamar]

Many thanks for this which I had not previously seen and to stontamar for commenting on my previous message.

It does seem incredible that my grandfather was picked up by the submarine given the proximity of RN ships. It's almost fifty years since I heard the story, so my memory may be playing tricks. However, I don't think I'm getting that fact wrong. I can only surmise that he was in the water for some time and the U boat was able to surface under cover of darkness.

That being said, I also seem to remember my grandfather talking about the U boat surfacing and shelling the ship. Could it be that I'm eliding two incidents - with the second being the occasion on which he was taken prisoner? It would seem incredibly unlucky for him to survive the torpedoing of the Calgarian, only to be sunk again and taken prisoner all in the last 8 months of the war.

I guess access to his war service record would throw light on the puzzle.

Hi davemc- yes the service record would be useful and should be available through The National Archives. Unfortunately the RNR records are not available on line but I have copied TNA information that will help you find the document.


RNR Ratings serving between 1914-1919

These records, arranged in service number, are held on microfiche in series BT 377 . Name indexes are available within the same series on microfilm covering the period back to 1860.

It is important to note that as the medal rolls also provide a man's service number, it may be far quicker to look for his medals before looking for a service record (see section on medals).

The document ADM 23/170 gives information on Admiralty pensions granted to RNR ratings from 1922 to 1925.

See also the Research Guide on Royal Navy: Operational Records First World War, 1914-1918.

It may also be worthwhile checking the service records of Merchant Seamen for the war period. See the Research Guide on Merchant Seamen: Sea Service Records, 1913-1972.


It would be really interesting to see the service record if you decided to obtain a copy. I find the whole subject of reconciling memories and recollections with recorded history a fascinating subject.

Also would it be possible to post the two photographs you mention?

Regards

stonatamar

[anne bolderston]

my grandfather's name was Tommy Agney and he served and died on the calgarian, was from Liverpool and worked for the Allen Line as a merchant seaman, he joined the royal navey when world war one broke out.
My grandfather was leading stoker on the calgarian when she was torpedoed,he along with the men on his watch from the engine room got off the calgarian and went ashore on Rathlin island, when the ship didin't sink he and the 14 men who served with him in the engine room volunteered to go back on board to put out the fire and see if they could bring her into port. while they were onboard the u19 came back and fired two more torpedoes, my grandfather and the men with him were trapped in the engine room and went down with the ship.

[stontamar]

my grandfather's name was Tommy Agney and he served and died on the calgarian, was from Liverpool and worked for the Allen Line as a merchant seaman, he joined the royal navey when world war one broke out.
My grandfather was leading stoker on the calgarian when she was torpedoed,he along with the men on his watch from the engine room got off the calgarian and went ashore on Rathlin island, when the ship didin't sink he and the 14 men who served with him in the engine room volunteered to go back on board to put out the fire and see if they could bring her into port. while they were onboard the u19 came back and fired two more torpedoes, my grandfather and the men with him were trapped in the engine room and went down with the ship.

Hi Anne the Commonwealth War Graves Commission have listed your grandfather as serving in the Mercantile Marine Reserve service number 686138 with the rate of Leading Fireman. As he was not recovered Tommy Agney is remembered on the Plymouth Naval Memorial.

The National Archive provide the following information relating to the MMR.

The Mercantile Marine Reserve (MMR) was formed of merchant seamen serving on merchant vessels requisitioned by the Admiralty for wartime service, some of whom may also have served in the Royal Naval Reserve. Service details can therefore be sought from BT 377 . Although there is no separate sequence of service records, it may be possible to trace an individual who received the MMR medal in BT 351 . Digital images of the medal cards in BT 351/1/1 and BT 351/1/2 can be searched and downloaded from DocumentsOnline. It is also possible that records of service may be found among the merchant seamen's records of service.

Tracing those who served in the MMR is not easy and there were an variety of TX124 agreements under which they served. If you require further information I am sure members of this forum will help if at all possible.

Regards

stontamar

[anne bolderston]

Here's a report of the sinking of HMS Calgarian, published in The Times on the 7th Mar 1918

Dave

Thankyou for posting this report - we've never seen any article referring to the sinking of the ship before.
It has left me feeling somewhat confused.
I'm unsure what date The Times went out with this report - but I know it more than week before my grandmother was informed.
In fact it was only by accident she found out - as she bumped into one of the crew from the Calgarian, who also lived in Liverpool and it was he who told her about the ship sinking & my grandfathers death. She hadn't had official notice. From the way the story goes (as I heard it) the surving crew were told to keep a low profile - is this anyone else's understanding?
It was this crew member that told her they had disembarked onto Rathlin Island and he had returned to the ship from there in the period between the torpedo attacks.
I wonder if he lied to her or if my grandmother was confused?

[George Hargreaves]

Hi,

Here she is in dazzle as painted by crew member C.E. Tarani. This from a book called Razzle Dazzle which stated that the painting is in the Maritime Command Museum in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

Cheers,
George

[linham]

I am new to this forum but my reason for posting is that my grandfather William McGhee was a Marconi Wireless Operator, but in 1914 at the beginning of the war he was called into the Royal Naval Reserve and served on board HMS Calgarian. As far as I know he was on this ship until immediately before it was torpedoed in March 1918.

Does anyone know where I would be able to find his complete service record for both Marconi and the RNR?

I have attached a photograph of the HMS Calgarian football team in 1916 (my grandfather is the one with the ball on his lap).

[alanbenn]

Linham, welcome to the forum and thank you for posting the wonderful photo of your grand-father in the football team.

Hopefully someone with the info will be able to tell you how to get records of Marconi, your grand-fathers service records may well prove easier to get hold of.

If you take a look at our new members section there are some good tips to be had for your time on the forum, we also have a section explaining how to apply for service records, it may well be that due to the date of the records you require they could be available online from the records office, I'm sure someone will know better than I do.

Regards
Alan