When were Medal Ribbons Issued for WW2

[james_harvey]

Hi All

I know you had to apply for the ww2 medals after the war, but 1 thing has been puzzling me,

My great great uncle served in ww1 and ww2, and was pensioned before ww2 but recalled and finally released feb 45.

I have his medals 14-15trio, 39-45 star defence medal and war medal and rn lsgc medals.

we also have his uniform bar consisting of the trio and ls ribbons and another one consisting the trio with 39-45 ribbon and the lsgc ribbon.

these 2 ribbons still have uniform attached to it as if it was cut of his uniform, if so when was the 39-45 ribbon issued as he had left the sevice before the war.

any help greatly appreciated

regards

james

[Odin]

I believe the 1939-45 Star was originally called the 1939-43 Star and they started to issue the ribbon for it before the war ended. Also the Africa Star was sanctioned before the war ended and ribbon was issued for that. But initially the idea was that you could earn either the 1939-43 Star or the Africa Star but not both (so people only got one ribbon).

After the war they then designed and issued the complete series for WWII. They had changed their ideas about the various stars which meant you could receive both the 1939-45 and Africa Stars.

[james_harvey]

Hi Odin many thanks, wasn't the ribbon for the atlantic issued before the end of the war, as i am sure i have seen a letter in a book where they received the ribbon and instructions for wearing it, I can't remember the name of the book but it was about the war in the atlantic and was full of photos.

regards

james

[Odin]

As I mentioned earlier the 39-45 Star was originally announced as the 1939-43 Star and the Africa Star covered the campaign in Africa from 1940-1943. So entitlement to either of these medals would have been quite clear by even early 1944.

However the Atlantic Star covered up until May 1945. Also a major condition of the award of this particular star was that recipients had to first have earned the 1939-45 Star. So given these complications I find it very difficult to believe that ribbon for this medal would have been issued before the war ended.

[james_harvey]

hi odin, if i can find the original book in the library i will scan the original letter thye had a photo of.

i may have read it wrong,

regards

james

[Odin]

That would be excellent James as I have never seen any mention of the Atlantic Star being sanctioned before the end of the war. Thanks.

[AngusOg]

I have recently been in touch with MODMO regarding my Fathers medal entitlement and in the letter (see attachment) they sent to me they indicate that the medals were mailed to him in 1949 and he was invalaided out of the service in late 1943. The people at MODMO were extremely helpful although the medal entitlement for my father was missing his RNR LS&GC medal ... I have Data Protection people doing a trace for me ( I have the original medal ). I doubt if the medals mentioned in the previous posts were issued during the hostilities. Of course those who performed outstanding feats of heroism etc. recieved their decorations as part of the propoganda war the rest had to wait.

[Odin]

Thanks for that - I was unsure how they recorded the issue of WWII Medals. They obviously had some sort of card index, as they did in WWI.

His RNR LS&GC would have been issued shortly after he had served the required qualifying time. Therefore that would not have been recorded with his WWII Medals.

I suspect the card referred to in the MOD Letter records only WWII Medals and possible General Service Medals / Naval GS Medals issued just after WWII (eg clasps Palestine 1945-48 and SE Asia 1945-46). This would be similar to WWI cards which show 1st WW Medals (1914/15 Star, BWM, Victory etc plus India General Service clasp Afghanistan NWF 1919 and General Service Medal clasps like Iraq [1920] ).

[james_harvey]

Odin

what was the correct way to wear medals during the wars, should the complete row be at the top or the bottom?

I have seen photos where the in complete row is at the bottom like the officers jacket that came with a set of medals and i have seen other photos where the incomplete row is at the top.

regards

james

[Odin]

Because the Navy wear their ribbons on a jacket quite high up the length of the row is quite limited (sometimes only 3 ribbons can be accomodated). So often they tend to spread across more rows than their Army equivalents (who usually manage to get 4 ribbons in a row).

The correct way for wearing medal ribbons on a tunic is for the first medal to be in the top row, nearest the centre of the body. Then work across towards the shoulder, then drop down and start again at the centre and work outwards. For a neater appearance tailors align the rows at the end nearest the shoulder.

When medals are mounted for wear they should be worn in one line only. The maximum width should be 5 / 6 medals so if there are more than that, they need to be overlapped. In practical terms the maximum you can wear is around 13 / 14 medals in one row (unless you want to look like Russ Abbott in one of his TV sketches!).

The correct order of wear for WWII Medals is Orders (eg MBE), Gallantry Awards (eg Distinguished Service Medal), Campaign Medals (Stars etc), Coronation Medals (eg GVI Coronation 1938), Long Service Medals (eg Naval LS&GC). However the Victoria / George Cross would take precedence over any orders etc and be worn first.

The order for WWII Medals is: 1939-45 Star Atlantic Star Air Crew Europe Star Africa Star Pacific Star Burma Star Italy Star France & Germany Star Defence Medal War Medal 1939-45.

It was not possible to earn all these awards - the maximum number of stars awarded was five with one from each colour group, with bars for the second entitlement in a colour group. So technically the maximum would be 5 stars with 2 bars and the Defence and War Medals (if you don't include the extra bars - 1939-45 Star bar Battle of Britain and the Africa Star bars 1st Army, 8th Army or N Africa 1942-43).

For Canadians the Canadian Volunteer Service Medal is worn after the Defence Medal but before the War Medal 1939-45. For other commonwealth awards (Africa Service Medal, Australia Service Medal, New Zealand War Service Medal etc) these are worn after the War Medal 1939-45.

[james_harvey]

thanks odin

Regards

James

[james_harvey]

Hi Odin,

My mistake again, I found the book in the library, The Atlantic star by David A Thomas.
The letter was dated 8 August 1946 and with it was encloseda 2 1/4" piece of ribbon.

I read the book in 1998 and assumed it was granted in 1945.

Sorry for the confusion

Regards

james

[Odin]

Thanks for clearing that up James

As you are probaly aware all the WWII Ribbons have some significance in terms of the colours used. I'll cover those mainly awarded to the Navy

1939-45 Star
Equal stripes of Dark Blue (RN & Merchant Navy) Red (Army) Light Blue (RAF)

Atlantic Star
Watered Blue, White and Green (to represent the colours of the sea)

Africa Star
Pale Buff (Sand of the desert) Red central stripe (Army) narrow Dark Blue stripe (RN and MN) narrow Light Blue stripe (RAF)

Pacific Star
Dark Green (Jungle) with Red edges (Army) central narrow Yellow stripe (Beaches of Pacific) and narrow stripes of Dark Blue (RN/MN) and Light Blue (RAF)

War Medal
Red White and Blue to represent British National Colours

[james_harvey]

Thanks odin

Just a shame the medals were not named.

James

[siggy63]

Like another member on this thread I started doing research on my Uncles wartime career in the Royal Navy, he started off onboard HMS Howe but due to tendancy to be a lower deck lawyer he was transfered to MTBs and served from 41 to 45 in the Med as he told me "Chucking grenades at the Germans"

Anyway, he was issued his Africa Star ribbon in 43 but the medals came in 1947. After contacting HMS Centurion to confirm his medal entitlement they also send me his "North Africa 42-43" bar which had not been sent when medals sent so it would seem its always a good idea to check as even after over 60 years they still send any outstanding bars.

Danny

[jainso31]

in Aug.1943,after the soccessful end of the campaign in North Africa and the turn in our fortunes against the Uboat; Mr Churchill wanted the Forces to have something to wear, in the way of a ribbon to show the nation's appreciation.
So the Africa Star ribbon was issued to all who served in the Desert from 1940 and the 1943 Star ribbon to everyone else who had served from 1940.
Issue began on 1st Nov.1943.



jainso31