RN Frigates: Type 15

[tim lewin]

Here is an excellent article from Ships Monthly about the type 15 conversions of wartime emergency class destroyers sent to me some time ago but well worth a read.

[Ian Richardson]

I am currently carrying out research in to the history of Type 15 Frigaters, and would be particularly interested in hearing from anyone who served on these ships. In particular accommodation, quality of food, incidents etc.

In additiion;

Were the Squid anti submarine mortars fitted to some of the ship re cycled from war built ships.

As above but the twin 4 inch Mk XIX turrets and guns.

What problems were there with corrosion where the new aluminium superstructure was rivetted on to the old steel hull.

How did the ships compare with the more modern Captain Class Type 14's and the Whitby/Rothesay/Leander Classes.

[Fairlead]

Ian,
It would help us all if you filled in your profile so that we know who we are talking to.
I served in HMS WHIRLWIND 63 - 64 so if you have any specific questions about her I will try and answer them

Fairlead

[oldsalt]

I had two Type 15's, Troubridge & Vigilant , to compare the coverted to unconverted , I served in Wrangler before she was converted. The 15's had a general messing i.e. food was prepared in the galley, which was then collected by individual mess'. This arrangement was a vast improvement on the canteen messing of the old destroyers. Extending the iron deck up to fo'cstle level was a safer & drier way of getting along the upper deck to the machinery spaces for example. All these opinions are my own, maybe others will disagree. Regarding the Vigilant, she was, I think, the only one in the class where the ERA's mess had a scuttle in the aft bulkhead looking into the Limbo morter space. During her conversion ,a crafty Tiffy followed the Docky marking out the scuttles added the extra one.

[qprdave]

I was on the Undaunted 1967-1969

I seems that a lot of the Type 15s were rebuilt differently. The Undaunted had a Galley and dining room. She also had a flight deck installed over the quarterdeck. This was provided to give Wasp pilots a platform to practice their deck landings. Day and night. This normally made us a bit late returning to Portland after the days exercises were completed. We didn't have any F.A.A. on board. The flight deck crew consisted of Stokers for emergency fire fighting and mainly seamen for the flight deck crew that secured the Helo when it landed.

The accommodation were part bunks, part hammocks and part camp beds. The mess that I was in had four bunks. The Killick of the mess had one bunk and the senior Juniors had the other three. As one left then the next senior took over the bunk. I had a bunk for two days before I was drafted off.

In 1968/69, the 4" gun was taken off and replaced by a cabin for the classes that we had on board for A/S (Sonar) training. They normally used it in the daytime as they were victualled ashore in a hotel at nights.

We did have problems with the ship cracking amidships by the boats and funnel. We had a quick repair job at Portsmouth then we went to Chatham (Home Port) for the job to be done properly.

I was also on the Russell (Type 14). I will post that soon

Dave Blackwell.

ps.
Keep coming back as I am sure we will post more as we remember events.

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Ian,

I was on Undine in 1954/5 and Verulam 1959.

You are going to get a lot of info coming your way and I will try and fill some gaps.

Back later.

Dave H

[Scurs]

Served in Type 14 (KEPPEL) 1960-62 (see avatar), was towing crew in URANIA (Type 15) 1962 but never served in one that was i n commission.

[qprdave]

Have you seen these Ian?

Don't know if you will learn anything that you don't already know

[BIG LES]

I was on the Venus for a while !.i also took malcom on sea triels whilst she was in reserve.Also served on the Torquay,But give my a batch two leander(Charybidis) anyday

[Scurs]

Big Les...............dunno about Batch 2 Leanders, but finest ship I served in was Batch 1 Leander (AJAX). :)

[qprdave]

I feel that the Type 15s were superior to Type 14s. If we assume that the Type 15s were "Brand New" after the conversion except for the Hull there is very little difference in ages between the two.

The Type 14s were probably good for what they were designed for solely for A/S work. They were also cheaper to run than their contemporaries.

They were not very good sea ships and would roll on a pond. Where as the Type 15s were good sea ships. The Type 15s, in my opinion were more stable, having 2 screws to the Type 14s 1.

The Type 14s had all bunks, which was a great improvement on the Type 15s. Meals on a Type 14 had to be collected from a servery and taken down the messdeck to be eaten. whereas the Undaunted, as I have stated before had a dining room.

The Type 15s had a main passageway almost throughout the length of the ship with a hatch going down to get to the after mess decks and Tiller Flat. The Type 14s only had a passageway from the bows to the beginning of the Iron deck. This made it difficult for the crew who lived down aft. The Iron Deck was out of bounds for a lot of the time due to weather. Access down aft was by walking over the top as far as the quarterdeck. not very good if you were carrying your plate/platter full of food in fough weather and high winds.

On the whole Type 15s were better than Type 14s. If my last ship wasn't HMS Hermes, then the Undaunted would have been the best ship that I had been on. Enjoyed it greatly.

[jackdusty1]

I served on the Undaunted 1959 (Cyprus-Malta) she had a galley midships where we collected our meals for the respective mess in my case port aft known as the misc. messdeck. stbd to us was the watchkeepers mess and aft of both the juniors messdeck. As I recall the food was OK depending on the weather! Hammocks where the norm. Uckers, Crib and Chase the Lady our sea time entertainment, with the occasional movie shown in the stokers mess and at the showing of cartoons the cry of Good old Fred! was heard from all and sundry. My action station post was above the main magazine "yanking" the shells upwards toward the gun loaders. During one exercise? off Cyprus the Captain calmly informed us "that there were Russian submarines in the area"
and our "new toy" would be fired. Incidents!! there where many, most importantly our "bump" with the Maxton and my predecessor selling most of the stores.

[qprdave]

Hmmmm
Jackdusty.
I wonder when they put in the Dining room. It was the compartment aft of the Galley separated by a serving hatch. Can you remember what the compartment was?

[qprdave]

The Dining Room entrance was opposite the Heads. Not a pretty sight when queuing in the Burma Road and looking through the heads door and seeing Arthur Ibbotson L/S UC1 sitting in the cubicle with the doors open and his No. 8s trousers around his ankles.

Having the dining room so near the heads was pretty handy, as a Junior, during rough weather!!!!!!!!

[harry.gibbon]

Were there Julian or Gregorian calendars around when you woz a Junior Dave:D

[qprdave]

I dunno. We did have one with "Eric the Viking" on it. Signed!!!!!!!!!

[Scurs]

qprdave...........can "black cat" that............ours said "Noah is a Nozzer"!

btw Type 14's had bunks, but not totally. I think we had 4 or 6 bunks in the mess onboard KEPPEL.........the rest slept in micks or camp beds.
Right about Burma Way only extending half the ship though, we were "all right jack", mess just forrard of Galley, opposite Sick Bay/Coxn's Office, and down hatch.
In roughers, poor old stokes down aft was "watch on,stop on" and configned to messdeck..........couldn't get along upper to galley. I think they had a supply of emergency rations stashed in a caboosh somewhere!!

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Ian,

Pick up PM on Verulam

Regards

[qprdave]

Hi Scurs.

Thanks for the Black Cat.......Remind me to do the same at a later date.

I guessed that the sleeping arrangements were different on other ships. I don't know why or when they decided to put all bunks in the Russell. Probably during a reasonably long refit time.

[oldsalt]

Bunks in Frigates & Destroyers, I did'nt get a bunk till 1961 in the Ark Royal.:(:(

[qprdave]

Yeah we sure was pampered....Not like you Old Salts, Old Salt!!!!

[jbryce1437]

Only aspired to a bunk, as a killick, on the Undaunted in 1968. I also served on the Ark in 1964/67 and had either a camp bed of hammock. Only an Admiral had a bunk on the Ark at that time, apart from Noah ;-)
I was an electrician on the Undaunted and I remember that all of the circuit diagrams referred to the old terminology for the decks. They certainly didn't refer to the convention that I had been taught. Instead of referring to 1 deck, 2 deck, etc. the books referred to the old destroyer terms, such as Main Deck, Lower Main Deck, etc. The diagrams for circuits installed post Type 15 conversion, were inserted as addendums.
I presume that the electricians at White's must have been paid by the foot of electric cable that they laid, as it was usual for circuits down aft to be supplied from fuse boxes up forward, when a shorter run could have been made from a fuse box nearer to the run.
Like the other Type 15's, her main electrical circuits were 220 volts direct current, whereas the later Type 14's were powered by 440 volts alternating current, stepped down to 115 volts ac for lighting and domestic circuits.
I don't think the dining hall was installed when she was converted and may have evolved due to the reduction in complement, etc.
When you consider the armament that these ships had as destroyers, ie 4 main single gun mountings, plus secondary mountings, two quadruple torpedo launchers, etc., then consider the number of crew to man, and supply, the mountings in action, they must have been very cramped, considering they did not have the additional space created by the extra deck fitted during the conversion.

[harry.gibbon]

I presume that the electricians at White's must have been paid by the foot of electric cable that they laid, as it was usual for circuits down aft to be supplied from fuse boxes up forward, when a shorter run could have been made from a fuse box nearer to the run.
Like the other Type 15's, her main electrical circuits were 220 volts direct current, whereas the later Type 14's were powered by 440 volts alternating current, stepped down to 115 volts ac for lighting and domestic circuits.

As a former BICC Cables Company employee it all looks like sound business sense to me ... the source of my Pension perhaps:)

Little h

[benbow30]

I served ON both type 15/14s First the Volage Converted in about 51.i was on her 54/55 in Derrygood ship General Messing and Hammocks.Then the Exmouth in 57/58 Most of the time at Cowes, as far asi can remember we all had hammocks i did any way and general messing.Bad sea ships had some rough times durring builders sea trials.
BENBOW30

[qprdave]

Was the Russell the only Type 14 to be all bunks or were all of them converted during their lifetime

[tomsam]

Hi Ian,having read your question post I have decided to reply as I am very interested in Type 15's. I have been away from these oppo's with nothing being posted for a while as I have been away from places that have computers, ( NO! not in jail )just travelling and poor relatives.However nothing changes with this mob, you only got a half hearted welcome to the forum, so from me a "Welcome Aboard " However it does help if you fill in your profile info. Also not many of your questions were answered,so I will endeavour to answer some of them. I seved on the Relentless in 1962/4 as a T.A.S (UW)**. As qprdave rightly points out, a lot if not all of these ships were built with some difference,be it build design, messing, weapons/ordanance or manpower. Relentless was one of the first to be converted and these ships were among the first surface ships fitted with periscopes LOL. As far as the guns go, as you know the four inch HA/La ( Dual Purpose ) was a very common gun mounting in use for many years and were indeed "Recycled" . As far as HMS Relentless goes ,her right hand barrel was fired in anger on the Chinese in the Yangtze Incident,and as the Relentless was not there it must have come from one of the famous ships that were there. As far as the Squid goes, some had the Mk 10 Limbo Mortar and some the Squid, The Squid was a wartime weapon and was recycled right through to the Type 61 Frigate ( Salisbury ) Being the last warship to be so fitted. So to condense my answer Yes the two main weapons were new/recycled from ship to ship but as to where from is very hard to establish except as mentione regarding the Relentless who had a brass plaque denoting such.You can always become active in our sister site,http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk where you will find a wealth of information on type 15's. These ships were also used as sea training ships and had an area above the enclosed bridge, ( Wikipedia states that this was for training purposes) however in HMS Relentless' case this was classed as the GDP or Gunnery Direction Platform.
So Ian I hope this helps and if as you say you are interested in these vessels,then don't do as many do ( Ask and Run ). Stay and share your research as we all have things to input however small.
PS don't believe qprdave when he says he was of the chosen few, In exercises I once had a near miss of a target when under local control of the port Limbo.( UC's , Who needs em you say );) LOL,
Tomsam

[qprdave]

Ouch Tomsam!!!!!!!!
I am devasted that I am getting stabbed in the back from a fellow T.A.S. Rate. Information such as that should be locked up and kept as far away from the stokers and Ivor, in particular, as possible!!!!!

I don't want to start giving my experiences about U.Ws.!!!!!!!!!

I shall be informing the T.A.S.I.s Association of this treachery!!!!!!!!!

Apart from the above drip.....Very good information

Dave

By the way. Who do you stick down the bomb room during action stations. Of course the only part of the seaman branch that can be trusted

[harry.gibbon]

Get the pair of yourselves orf the lads thread and over onto the Pingity Ping site :D:D such internal squablin the like of which I never witnessed from across the flat from EWO

Nuff said:)

Little h

[qprdave]

Get the pair of yourselves orf the lads thread and over onto the Pingity Ping site :D:D such internal squablin the like of which I never witnessed from across the flat from EWO

Nuff said:)

Little h
Yes Sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry Sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[harry.gibbon]

Good thread this, enjoying the interchanges ... whether the original questions are/have been answered or not;)

Gotta say though, that having done the cat-walks with the nosh in trays or fanny's and waiting in line at the galley for some great scran .... I know which falls into which category:) (based on Battles V Type 12's/Leanders).

Little h

[Scurs]

We do tend to digress.............:D Just like tot time innit?

Btw.......talking of things TAS (mysterious things to we Gunnery rates)........did you ever pre-load the Squid/Mortar Mk.10 with "Lights" before leaving harbour for exercises?
We did...............until.........................AB UW2 was showing his relief around, "........and when we want to fire we .......WUMP, WUMP, WUMP...........", three mortar projectiles neatly cleared the breakwater, and splashed down around Captain (F)...............rumour has it he was not impressed! :D

"Off Cap...did.........":D

[Sprayerjockey]

Hello All, just wanted to introduce myself as a newbie here ( Sprayerjockey) Shiner Wright( P/061067), I was in the Ursa (F 200) Type 15, (61-63) Squids were aft by the laundry ( 4 I think??) meals served up in the galley and bought down to the messdeck,( Stokers Mess aft) just past the naffi, bunks fitted port and starboard messes ( 4 or 6 per mess I think) killicks and 3 badges gold only; unless you were lucky(?) all the rest of the stokers slung micks and a couple of the lads on floor lockers. ( this was the norm in all the lower deck messes P Os & Chiefs messes had bunks fitted but micks were also slung in the P Os mess), one had to be carefull at night comming down the ladder in the stokers mess , ducking under the nearest mick banging your head and choking on the bubble dust?? and being swore at by owner ( doing rounds middle and morning watch) or comming inboard after a run ashore, if you slipped you could finsh up down the hatch into the starb shaft space, was a preety tight fit all round when all the micks were slung.
I was on the Ursa when we and the Battleaxe hit each other up in the loch in Scotland. I hope this bit of info might go along with the thread etc and be of use.

[qprdave]

Post #30

I can't remember having the mortars loaded leaving harbour.

For those that are interested. There were three types of mortar bomb

1) Practise (Yellow). These were mainly used during C.A.S.E.X. where we would fire one and then get the submarine to "indicate their position with a smoke flare". These were empty with 2 small holes in them. Once fired the seaboat would go away and pick it up. If it wasn't picked up for some reason, it would slowly fill with water and sink.

2) Inert (Black) Used for firing tests and, hopefully, weren't fired by mistake. (although I am sure quite a few disappeared into the ogin, never to be seen again.)

3) Live (Green) Pretty obvious what these were used for....Fishing!!!!

[Derek Dicker]

Hi Dave, was on the Ulysses 58-59, certainly felt safer with mortar mk 10, I think it was. At least it was aimed to port or stbd, not over the mast bridge like the dam squid type thing.

Derek (Bunts)

[jbryce1437]

Not so Derek, the firing arcs meant they could fire in a circle, including over the mast. This is the Undaunted on a fishing trip.

[qprdave]

Great Picture Jim

One thing that is baffling me. She is Captain(D) 2nd Frigate Squadron.and no flight deck!!!! I have read that the Flight Deck was put on in the late 50s and she "later" became Captain(D) 2nd Frigate Squadron. In fact you mention it in your website

Also above the Covered bridge there appears to be Officers there. I have also read that some Type 15s had an open bridge there. I can't remember the Unwanted having one. She did have a G.D.P. just in front of the mast as shown.

Pity there isn't a Pennant No. I wonder why?

Can you help me out here?

Is it the Unwanted?

[harry.gibbon]

Proper good pic that:) and mortar in flight to boot... great stuff Jim

Little h

[qprdave]

Yes, Derek

Jim is right. It was the advantage of the Mortar Mk 10 over the Squid that it could fire 360 degrees whereas squid could only operate about 45 degrees eitherside of the bows.

[Fairlead]

HMS WHIRLWIND was also D2 for a spell up to April 1962, when I joined her as an Acting RS to relieve D2's Chief. We then went to Chatham for a spell before returning to Portland for work-up prior to a year as West Indies Guard Ship.
This photograph of WHIRLWIND was taken sometime in 62 or 63 - comparing it with UNDAUNTED there are some marked differences in the radio and radar fits between the two ships, so I am guessing the UNDAUNTED photograph is much earlier.

Fairlead

[qprdave]

Thank you Fairlead.

I am questioning if Jim's Photo is the Undaunted.

If you look at your picture of the Whirlwind, you will see that the only thing above the Bridge is a guardrail. That is how the Undaunted was.

Now, if you look at the Undaunted picture, there seems to be an "Open bridge" with, what looks like Officers, or at least men. standing in the "open bridge"

[alanbenn]

One thing that is baffling me. She is Captain(D) 2nd Frigate Squadron.and no flight deck!!!! I have read that the Flight Deck was put on in the late 50s and she "later" became Captain(D) 2nd Frigate Squadron.



Dave, especially..for you!

Undaunted with flight deck.

Regards
Alan

[qprdave]

Fairlead

Something that I have just noticed on the Whirlwind just in front of the 4" gun, there is a black pole, No Harry not one of your Gizmo's, Is this the Periscope that I have heard that Type 15s carried. It had been taken off by the time that I was on there (1967)

[Fairlead]

Dave,
Maybe the fact theat the GDP has glass windows like some of the open bridges is causing the confusion

Did you notice the periscope?

Fairlead

[qprdave]

Thanks for the Picture Alan.

But you have just clouded the issue even more!!!!!!!!!

Going by the Black thick stripe, that denotes Captain(D). Your picture shows the Unwanted with a Flight deck but is not Captain (D). Yet Jim's shows her as Captain (D) without a flight deck.

Now could it be that this was before she was made Captain(D) and Jim's picture was Captain (D) at the same time?

curiouser and curiouser said Alice!!!!!!

[qprdave]

Yes. Did you read Post #41?

[qprdave]

I know that sometimes during the war, the Pennant No. was removed for security reasons. I wonder why Jim's picture has no Pennant No.?

WHERE IS JIM BRYCE WHEN YOU NEED HIM!!!!!!

[harry.gibbon]

re post #43 curiouser and curiouser said Alice!!!!!! all you need now is a 'gizmo' and you can join my band of the demented and confused mate!!!

Little h

[qprdave]

Something that has occurred to me Dahhhhhh.

Was the Undaunted Captain (D) right up to the end or did another ship take over that role after I left?

[Scurs]

2nd FS...............remember WHIRLWIND, she took over as leader from TEAZER, sometime 1961/62.

[Fairlead]

Dave,
The pole you refer to was (I think) a transmitter aerial - later replaced with a 32ft whip aerial.
The periscope was sited in the ops room and you can see it on the WHIRLWIND photo a few feet back from the front of the bridge looking like a thick black pole with a white top. Just for info - it had a metal cover on the deck so that when the periscope was stowed the optics were protected from scrub deck bosuns and in harbour it could be locked down to stop RP's oggling!

Fairlead

[ivorthediver]

Ouch Tomsam!!!!!!!!
I am devasted that I am getting stabbed in the back from a fellow T.A.S. Rate. Information such as that should be locked up and kept as far away from the stokers and Ivor, in particular, as possible!!!!!

I don't want to start giving my experiences about U.Ws.!!!!!!!!!

I shall be informing the T.A.S.I.s Association of this treachery!!!!!!!!!

Apart from the above drip.....Very good information

Dave

By the way. Who do you stick down the bomb room during action stations. Of course the only part of the seaman branch that can be trusted


I knew it ! :eek:

Truth will out , never mind Dave ...thought of you when I saw this ......

memories....... or did your Aide see to things like this for you , being one of the "Chosen Ones" :p

[ivorthediver]

I am currently carrying out research in to the history of Type 15 Frigaters, and would be particularly interested in hearing from anyone who served on these ships. In particular accommodation, quality of food, incidents etc.

In additiion;

Were the Squid anti submarine mortars fitted to some of the ship re cycled from war built ships.

As above but the twin 4 inch Mk XIX turrets and guns.

What problems were there with corrosion where the new aluminium superstructure was rivetted on to the old steel hull.

How did the ships compare with the more modern Captain Class Type 14's and the Whitby/Rothesay/Leander Classes.


Is this what we are talking about Gentlemen 54340

[astraltrader]

A perfect example I should say Ivor!

A good picture.

[ivorthediver]

Thank you Terry here is another shot from the Port side

[jbryce1437]

Ok, you go to a football match and all hell breaks out while you are away. The photograph of the Type 15 doing the mortar shoot was not captioned and there was a consensus of opinion, on another site some years ago, that it was Undaunted. I had a look of other pics that I had of Undaunted at the time and compared them with that one and they appeared to stand up to scrutiny - ie position of scuttles, aerials, and other upper deck fixtures and fittings. You will be aware that not all of the Type 15 conversions were identical, and even those conversions were changed over the years. I believe the flight deck appeared around 1958, but not sure if she had other spells as Capt D 2nd Frigate Squadron. I will look at all of my pics again and see if I can spot any similarities with other ships.

[qprdave]

"Was the Undaunted Captain (D) right up to the end or did another ship take over that role after I left?"

Looking at Alan's picture again. It must have been before I joined and not after I left as it still has it's 4" Gun in situ.

It must be very difficult to identify a ship and compare it with other pictures by items like deck lockers, radar etc as, over the years items would have been taken off, added on or just replace with a different shaped item. I suppose, even scuttles get blanked in for some reason or other.

[jbryce1437]

"Was the Undaunted Captain (D) right up to the end or did another ship take over that role after I left?"

Looking at Alan's picture again. It must have been before I joined and not after I left as it still has it's 4" Gun in situ.

It must be very difficult to identify a ship and compare it with other pictures by items like deck lockers, radar etc as, over the years items would have been taken off, added on or just replace with a different shaped item. I suppose, even scuttles get blanked in for some reason or other.

I have the same pic as Alan and it is captioned "pre december 1967", when the gun was removed. It is also prior to her becoming Capt D, which she became in 1967, not sure which month, when Captain Desmond Cassidi took command. She recommissioned in November 1966 with Lieutenant Commander Churchill as commanding officer. So, I assume, the photo lies between those dates.

You can find a profile for Desmond Cassidi here:
http://www.military-art.com/mall/profiles.php?SigID=732

[qprdave]

Jim. Thanks

But it is the non existance of the flight deck that is baffling me. It was fitted c1959. As I said previously. Your Website mentions that and "later became Captain(D)" I am wondering if your pic is another Type 15 who was Captain(D). Do you know why it would sail around without a Pennant No. The Only reason that I can think of is that the ships side was painted and the picture was taken before they painted the pennant No.

[alanbenn]

According to the write up I have with one of the undaunted photo's it says......

In 1952 she was given a full conversion to frigate by cowes, she was given a flight deck aft and a deckhouse in lieu of the twin 4.5 gun then after trials became leader 2nd frigate sqdn Portland.


So flightdeck fitted in 1952...

Regards
Alan

[alanbenn]

Sorry forgot the photo, however this photo is dated 1968 on the reverse.


Regards
Alan

[qprdave]

Thanks Alan.

We have information that the Flight deck was put on c1959. Gun and director was taken off in 1967 at Chatham. Jim and I was on it then.

If what you are saying is true. Then what was the Unwanted doing messing about the ocean as Captain (D) in 1952. I think that the Type 15 conversions took about two yrs to complete. So that would take it to about 1955 when completed.

Conversion at J. Samuel White, Cowes, 1953-1954

Is it Me....
Am I missing something that everyone can see???????

[alanbenn]

Dave, Found the answer to your query re; pennant number.

The photograph was taken during a 'sea days demonstration' it also points out that the captains motor boat is stowed on the quarterdeck to leave the midships clear for anti submarine torpedo tubes which only a few of the class were fitted with.

Hope this helps

Regards
Alan

[CYLLA]

Hi ALL ,

Only been on a type 15 for a week , for sea training . And the upper deck was completely new ground to me , being a "sprog".

I have read many article about there refits , and changing the silhouettes .

But one thing has got mi interested in , Was the funnel ever made larger ??
Due to it losing that destroyer profile.
Did the exeter weight , make a lot of difference , i.e speed and machinery spaces.?

I have posted this piccy , i hope it,s a decent size .

cylla

[qprdave]

Thanks for the picture of Relentless, Cylla

It never occurred to me that the funnel was overlarge. I know that it kept many a watch on deck warm sitting against it. But thinking about it now, I wonder why it wasn't fitted with a funnel similar to the Type12s. I am not sure when the first Type 12s were laid down. The Type 15s were being converted not that long before. The plans for the Type 12 were already there. Perhaps it was just cost that decided the issue

As far a speed is concerned, The Undaunted still could manage around 32knots when I was on it in '67-'69. Also the Rapid did take part in that race for the fastest ship in the fleet. Can't remember what the other ship was (a CA, I think) and who won. There is a thread about it in this forum. I must admit the Undaunted did shake, rattle and roll when at high speed

[alanbenn]

Tut, Tut, Dave, the other ship was none other than the Cavalier which Ivor is currently showing photo's of!!!

Regards
Alan

[qprdave]

Oooooops

Sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[astraltrader]

Good pictures Alan and Cylla.:)

[Ian Richardson]

Pleased I can give something back! HMS Undaunted was converted into a Type 15 Frigate at J.S. White Cowes, between 15.10.51 and commissioned on the 23.7.54 as a trials vessel for the Underwater Establishment Early photos of her show her armamanet cacooned. She became part of the 2nd Training Squadron on 20.8.55, refitting from 1.58 to 11.3.58 when she joined the 6th Frigate Squadron. The helicopter deck was fitted in 1959. Prior to about 1960 vessels that carried the broad black funnel band designting them Captain (D) or (F) did not carry their pennant numbers. After this date the "Leaders" carried the pennant numbers in addition to the funnel band. The picture of Undaunted firing her Limbo's looks like an Admiraly official picture, so I think there is little doubt it is Undaunted probabley about 1958/59 before the helicopter deck was fitted.

[qprdave]

Thanks for that Ian. Answered most of the questions. I am assuming then, that when I was on the Undaunted it was her second time as Captain(D). First Captain(D) of the 2nd Training Squadron and then, second, Captain (D) of the 2nd Frigate Squadron

[alanbenn]

Ian, it is indeed an official admiralty press release photo, I assume taken to demonstrate the newly fitted Limbo's after her refit.

Regards
Alan

[jbryce1437]

Regarding the funnel, I'm not sure if the original funnel was refitted, at its original size, when the new superstructure was added. Everything was just lifted up by two decks?
The added decks on the Type 15's were all aluminium, so there wasnt any great addition in weight, bearing in mind that most of their original armament was removed. They certainly lived up to their names as Fast anti submarine frigates.
Question;
On the quarterdeck was a bathy? winch which, I believe was used in the pursuit of submarines. What was the purpose of the piece of kit. I know that it was prone to blowing fuses if someone tried to recover the piece of kit whilst the ship was still steaming at a fair rate of knots, the motor being overloaded by the additional strain.

[qprdave]

A Bathythermograph measured the tmperature of water at a given depth. A piece of glass like a microscope slide is used. It is smoked one side to give it a black look. It was slid into the Bathy which was made of Brass. When a sleeve was twisted around the Bathy to cover the slide hole, it lowered a stylus onto the smoked side of the glass. There is a small bellows inside and the stylus is connected to it. It is also connected to a coil that reacts to Temperature. Once it is dropped over the side the pressure moved the bellows and the the temp moved the coils. When at the depth that you require you put a brake on the Bathy winch and then hauled it in.

Once retrieved the slide is taken out. The slide is put into a viewer which has the depth printed down the side and temp along the top. This then will give you the changes of temperature and at what depth these changes are at.

The changes can then be transferred to a graph and with the help of a perspex template the actions of the SONAR beam can be worked out.

[benbow30]

Volage Type15 converted at J.S Whites at cowes 51/54 then to 3rd. training Squadron at derry (Red Hand Gang) Where a lot of type 15s. finished.
I joined her in July 54.
Peter Musselwhite
Benbow30.

[oldsalt]

I have the plans of Rapid after conversion, she was one of the earliest conversions. If there is a specific query anyone has that can be seen in Rapids conversion I will do my best to provide an answer.

[qprdave]

Thanks Keith. I will remember that in future

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Benbow,

Makes thee and me same vintage , I joined Undine October '54 , saw Volage in Derry when we visited - we were Capt F [6th FS] at that time.

Dave H [Blake 8 - 243 Class]

[jbryce1437]

I have the plans of Rapid after conversion, she was one of the earliest conversions. If there is a specific query anyone has that can be seen in Rapids conversion I will do my best to provide an answer.

Great news Keith, I dont suppose they would scan or be photographed.
Thanks for the explanation about the Bathythermograph Dave.
I believe that Undaunted spent some time in the Derry Squadron, but I have never seen a photograph of her with the red hand on the funnel.

Jim

[oldsalt]

Great news Keith, I dont suppose they would scan or be photographed.
Thanks for the explanation about the Bathythermograph Dave.
I believe that Undaunted spent some time in the Derry Squadron, but I have never seen a photograph of her with the red hand on the funnel.

Jim

The sheets the plans are drawn on are too large for me to scan. I can, however, tell you where I got them, they were'nt too expensive. The details are :- John Lambert Plans. 6 Chestnut Close. Pine View Park.Maulden. Beds.
MK45 2FR. I've just add a thought if you log onto the name, perhaps more details may be provided. I'll give it a try & let you know.

[oldsalt]

The sheets the plans are drawn on are too large for me to scan. I can, however, tell you where I got them, they were'nt too expensive. The details are :- John Lambert Plans. 6 Chestnut Close. Pine View Park.Maulden. Beds.
MK45 2FR. I've just add a thought if you log onto the name, perhaps more details may be provided. I'll give it a try & let you know.

Just log onto John Lambert Plans, all the info is there also other ships too. Good hunting. :D:D

[jbryce1437]

Oldsalt, many thanks for that source, will look it up

Jim

[Ian Richardson]

Ian,
It would help us all if you filled in your profile so that we know who we are talking to.
I served in HMS WHIRLWIND 63 - 64 so if you have any specific questions about her I will try and answer them

Fairlead

Gordon,

Sorry, I haven't got the hang of submitting replies on this site yet, but any information regarding HMS Whilwind in the Caribben will be useful.

Also do you know what happened to her wreck after she sank at her moorings as a target ship? Regards, Ian R.

[qprdave]

Ian

this web page was found by Little h

It is all about SONAR but there is quire a bit about Type 15s and the trials they did with SONAR and A/S weapons. It starts from p156

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bw46M1qI9gMC&pg=PA135&lpg=PA135&dq=asdic+in+royal+navy&source=bl&ots=WxCot-5qpn&sig=bKMvFrY4iMi7PE0T5ybnYNM8vSg&hl=en&ei=k_GiSojPDc_E-Qbtlaj4Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=asdic%20in%20royal%20navy&f=false

[Juan90]

I served on Undaunted in 1971 and she was Captain D but there was definately no flight deck then... I may be old as my grandchildren tell me but I would notice a helicopter on the ship!;)

[qprdave]

I am sorry to disagree with you but she had a flight deck in 1970 when I was there and she had it when she was sunk. Here's a picture after the first attempt.

[astraltrader]

Here is a good view of her helicopter deck...

[Macadian]

I am sorry to disagree with you but she had a flight deck in 1970 when I was there and she had it when she was sunk. Here's a picture after the first attempt.

Indeed she did.....not pretty but a flight deck non the less.....:cool:

[tomsam]

I have a poser for all you type 15 buffs. Why was HMS Rocket the only one of the conversions to have a "Rubbing Strake " fitted. I don't recall seing one when she was a Destroyer.
Les
P.S I don't know the answer

[tim lewin]

A very fine pic of the old girl at speed, still burning the matresses I see!

[Ian Richardson]

Many thanks for that useful information, it certainly provides a lot more in depth information.

the article is now complete and should be appearing in "Warship World" very shortly.

Once again, many thanks.

Ian R

[Laurie Fielder]

Served on HMS Wizard 1954 to end of '55' on the Ulster Squadron out of Londonderry. For some reason believed to have been a depth charge explosion was shorter than her sister ships. When joining her in Guzz she was rolling in the fitting out basin. Was a cow of a sea boat, her first heave was mine for 3 months never been seasick since !!
We were messdeck messing and slept in hammocks. Food was mediocre but that was probably the cooking. The galley range was oil fired .
She was fitted with the LIMBO A/S mortar two 3 barrelled units

[alanbenn]

Laurie, welcome to the forum. Look forward to reading more posts from you and any ships photo's you may have would be most welcomed.

Here's a fine shot of your ship Hms Wizard.


Regards
Alan

[qprdave]

Nice one, Alan. I do like the Type 15s. Probably because of the good time I had on the Unwanted

[alanbenn]

Dave, I agree they looked the part, I loved getting photo's of these ships from my Dad when I was growing up in the 1960's.

There weren't that many left when I joined in 1971.

Anyhow hope this photo brings back a few happy memories for you.

Regards
Alan

[Batstiger]

Great picture Alan, I will borrow that one if you don't mind. It appears to be the same as the one Terry posted but without the grain.

Cheers, Bob.

[Dave Hutson]

Agree Alan,

They were great looking ships even though a touch top heavy. The conversions from Destroyers to Frigates made them very modern and I certainly enjoyed my time on the Fighting 141 [Undine] and Verulam. Verulam was novel with no armament being UDE Trials ship - the big disadvantage was being on the 2nd FS and taking part in every Thursday war at Portland over 15 months - advantage - any Workup after Verulam was a doddle.

Dave H

[qprdave]

I agree about the Thursday War, Dave. I had the privilage of doing it twice. 2yrs on the Undaunted and 2yrs on the Russell. As you said. Workup seemed a doddle after that.

[Polycell]

I am currently carrying out research in to the history of Type 15 Frigaters, and would be particularly interested in hearing from anyone who served on these ships. In particular accommodation, quality of food, incidents etc.

In additiion;

Were the Squid anti submarine mortars fitted to some of the ship re cycled from war built ships.

As above but the twin 4 inch Mk XIX turrets and guns.

What problems were there with corrosion where the new aluminium superstructure was rivetted on to the old steel hull.

How did the ships compare with the more modern Captain Class Type 14's and the Whitby/Rothesay/Leander Classes.
I served on both Virago F76 and Troubridge.
Virago I hated albeit a good ship I just hated being on it.
She was twin 4 inch gun single turret . Strange semi circular bridge, Mortar Mk 10 good for fishing!!
Messes were krap or the greenies and stokers messes were no bunks all Micks. No dining hall two galleys one for the Ships company and one for the bunhouse. Scran was collected from the galley and taken to the mess.
It was a DC ship ie ships supply was DC conversation machinery for AC and strange weapons voltages.
Troubridge had a modern Type 12 etc type bridge better ship than Virago.
Type 12s which I also served on (Plymouth) was far and away better all bunks dining hall etc better all round ship.
One thing about the type 15s they certainly had a good turn of speed!!
Fred

[harry.gibbon]

Re Polycells'...Type 12s which I also served on (Plymouth) was far and away better all bunks dining hall etc better all round ship.

This would have been the case only after refit. Falmouth (Type 12) as built fit, had no dining hall, JR's messes had only ships side bunks, the rest were in hammocks.

Little h

[Polycell]

Re Polycells'...Type 12s which I also served on (Plymouth) was far and away better all bunks dining hall etc better all round ship.

This would have been the case only after refit. Falmouth (Type 12) as built fit, had no dining hall, JR's messes had only ships side bunks, the rest were in hammocks.

Little h
I can't vouch for what was on the Type 12s prior to refit sorry. All I can say was that Plymouth was far and away a better class than the Type 15s and Plymouth was a great ship.!!

[oldsalt]

Troubridge & Vigilant were my two type 15's , also served ondoard Wrangler pre conversion. I thought the 15's were good ships, sturdy & reasonably easy to maintain. At that time I had never had a ship with bunks fitted, so I can't comment on that. The food was fair for that time , certainly a vast improvement on Wrangler's canteen messing. In Troubridge we survived some of the worst weather I have ever encountered, 1957 in the North Atlantic,she stood up to the conditions well. Previous to conversion these Emergency class destroyers had a long iron deck which was dangerous to cross in bad weather, the after mess's had to struggle for'wd to collect meals & even worse get them back to their mess ,hanging onto food dishes & a safety line. Vigilant was slighty different to other 15's, in the ERAs mess we had a porthole in the after bulkhead looking into the Squid bay, when she was converted a crafty ERA standing by the re-build followed the guy marking out porthole positions & chalked in an extra one. Vigilant was a Dartmouth training ship, when the young gentlemen did their engine room time asked what the third turbine throttle control was for ,we used to say "to make the ship go sideways", for those unfamiliar with the main engine controls, the cruising throttle was in a fore & aft line as opposed to the ahead & astern throttles which were situated in a thwartship position. :):D

[INVINCIBLE]

At "EXPLOSION" we have an Admiralty model of the Type 15 conversion HMS RELENTLESS with a strange gun/ASW weapon. As she already has two Limbos aft what is the strange weapon with four barrels in the turret.

[whalerman]

One of my vivid memories of Undaunted 1963 apart from the flightdeck. Was due to the 40/60 being on the roof of the Ops room when it fired the ARL Tables and radar displays tripped and flakes of paint and dust etc showered down from the deckhead. Rather upleasant

[culverin]

Post WW2 the RN planned a multitude of different destroyer conversions to assorted different categories of, predominantly, frigates to meet the expectations of the new nuclear era.

Only the types 15 and 16 conversions ever happened, with varying degrees of success. All the others were consigned to the "daft" and "we do not really need" it file. Aggravated by the "we cannot afford it anyway" opinion. Four of the Battle class also underwent extensive and expensive modifications.

[Dreadnought]

Thanks Tim, some photos in the Gallery here:
http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1396&highlight=conversions

[Derek Dicker]

Mng Tim, many thanks for paper clipping, HMS Ulysses was my first draft after leaving Ganges 1958, should have joined her in Malta, but because of the bump up the back of Undine, joined in Guz number 1 dock, eventually sailed for the med in December 58.


Derek (Bunts)

[Pelican]

I have recently been given an article concerning the title of this thread which I thought some of you might like to see it? The pics were set within the article but I scanned them seperately so that you can see them better hopefully.
If the Moderator moves this post to another thread please advise me via p.m. Thank you.

[Lancashire Steve]

Thanks for posting it - these conversions have always intrigued me and the article explains a few things. It has to be said though that compared with how they started out, the converted vessels were hardly things of beauty. Must have still been impressive at full speed though - I'd like to have seen that race.

[Pelican]

HMS WAKEFUL transiting the Keil canal.

[qprdave]

I have moved 2 threads of the A/S Destroyer conversions to keep them all together and to avoid duplication of posts

Dave

[tonclass]

HMS WAKEFUL transiting the Keil canal.

Any chance of a BIGGER scan of your pic ? It would be much appreciated. Somewhere around the 300/400dpi rate would be superb !!

[MelQuick]

Hi Mousey

Thanks for sharing the pictures with us.

Mel

[Pelican]

Sorry Rik thats the only version I have. Heres one of Andromeda to make up. Did we have a Keil Canal squadron in those days?

[Pelican]

ROCKET & UNDAUNTED
Rocket ~ re the earlier pic of her with a 'rubbing strake.' The following may be of interest? "Hi Mousey, HMS Rocket had spray deflecters under the focsle they were like girders very handy while on Iceland patrol during the cod wars, she also had an unusual top to the funnel with an air vent all around above the air vent was always painted dark grey. I was on her from Nov 1960 to May 1962."
Re my earlier comment about the Keil Canal Flotilla/Squadron ~ many a true word in jest?
Undaunted ~ "The Kiel canal again with HMS Undaunted plus her demise."

[Pelican]

WHIRLWIND A few pics.

[Pelican]

UNDAUNTED - UNWANTED ? & WAKEFUL
Some self explanatory memories and further pics of Undaunted's demise. Apart from the 1st post the others on this thread are less and a year old. Maybe its early days but a little surprised of limited response(s).

"Hi Mousey here are the first and second attempts at sinking HMS Undaunted, the first shot was a hit under the starboard side of the bridge she was taken back to GIb and tidied up then taken back out for the second shot port side amidships. Yes when the guns were fired the paint and fire retardent cork would come off the deckheads all the superstructure was thick aluminium, I remember that on HMS Undine in a force 12 in the arctic a big wave hit us and split the starboard side which soaked the supply officer in the cabin opposite the wheel house, he dashed down the burma rd in his red silk pyjamas asking the watch on deck to look at his hole!"

"I can't let this pass without comment on Hms Undaunted, or unwanted as we affectionatley called her. I served on her 1955/6, and compared with other ships I had served on she was the most comfortable and she was a good sea boat. Several things of signifigance happened whilst I was aboard her, I got married and my mates on board formed a guard of honour at my local church, I picked up the hook, and my first daughter was born, on the down side my left arm was broken in three places whilst i was slipping the Dundas to sea and her back spring got me, I was P7R for six months, and I still have my hurt certificate. I have the ships company photo on my memorabillia wall Lt/Cdr Bloomer was in command, and Lt Swaby (Lord Swaby) was Jimmy. It was sad to see the way Undaunted met her end, she deserved better than that."

"Did my sea training from Ganges on Wakefull. We met Robin Knox Johnson off Falmouth on his return from his round the world jolly. First time I slept in a mik, and Jimmy Green opened a scuttle in roughers (rough weather) because he was feling seasick, the goffer (wave) came in the mess like a 12 inch firemain and all our mik's (hammocks) were WW (could mean well wet?)."

[Pelican]

UNDAUNTED & ROCKET ~ FURTHER COMMENTS:
HMS Undaunted was sunk in 1974 so it was before the Falklands war. I was on board her March 63 to September 64, in Portland as Capt D. She was fitted with AGUTI ( spelling ) screws the leading edge of each blade had air holes in and air was pumped in as the blades rotated to stop the cavitation, there were windows in the tiller flat above each screw where the boffins could fit their cameras on the trials. She also had a large electric winch on the quarterdeck that I believe was used when she was messing with the variable depth sonar that was later fitted to the Leanders. The type 15 was a great seaboat and with out doubt the Rocket was the best, all the lockers in the passage ways and in the messes were high enough to clean under it seemed as the first one they had put more thought into it .

[harry.gibbon]

UNDAUNTED - UNWANTED ? & WAKEFUL
Some self explanatory memories and further pics of Undaunted's demise. Apart from the 1st post the others on this thread are less and a year old. Maybe its early days but a little surprised of limited response(s).

David,

I have to admit to being a tad confused, insofar as a) I think this thread has been the subject of merging at some time and b) your most recent posts seem to leave us (the forum members) reading one half of an exchange you are having with someone eslewhere.

Re a);
16.10.07 - the thread is opened providing information
18.08.09 - the thread receives post #2 from a researcher
same date - post #8 provides the same information as contained in post #1
24.09.09 - post #89 the researcher advises job done and look out for an article arising from same.
Since then many of us have offered 'exchanges' about the class.

Re b);
Could you please clarify what this other debate is that you are having about the class and if we are being asked to respond to the 'other party' by proxy?
Note; pic #1 in your post, this is a repeat of that posted in post #84 on 07.09.09

Would you clarify 'Keil canal squadron' please.

Ta vy much
Little h

[Pelican]

David,

I have to admit to being a tad confused, insofar as a) I think this thread has been the subject of merging at some time and b) your most recent posts seem to leave us (the forum members) reading one half of an exchange you are having with someone eslewhere.

Re a);
16.10.07 - the thread is opened providing information
18.08.09 - the thread receives post #2 from a researcher
same date - post #8 provides the same information as contained in post #1
24.09.09 - post #89 the researcher advises job done and look out for an article arising from same.
Since then many of us have offered 'exchanges' about the class.

Re b);
Could you please clarify what this other debate is that you are having about the class and if we are being asked to respond to the 'other party' by proxy?
Note; pic #1 in your post, this is a repeat of that posted in post #84 on 07.09.09

Would you clarify 'Keil canal squadron' please.

Ta vy much
Little h

Morning Harry. Briefly what happened.
I was given the article which I thought would be of interest to Forum members. Asked Mod. which thread to post it on. Told to start a new thread and he would move it if necessary. Started "WW II Destroyers converted to A.S. Frigates." Eventually found it had been moved to this thread and took my cue from this thread's title. Posted info elsewhere and received pics and info that I have posted on here. I did not and have not read whole thread including 89 referred to. The Keil Canal Sqdn. remark was a sarkey reference to the number of Type 15's which had transited it. My conclusion. Its been an interesting exercise and I've learnt a lot about Type 15's. As we are often reminded the info on the Forums is not just for the present members but for future ones. Trust the above deconfuses you? David. P.S. I've been in enough trouble with the Mods without being in trouble with you as well!

[Pelican]

HMS URCHIN.
When she was in the Red Hand Squadron, Northern Ireland, 1954.

[Dave Hutson]

That one I remember Dave - went alongside her in Derry when I was on UNDINE.

[Pelican]

That one I remember Dave - went alongside her in Derry when I was on UNDINE.
Dave ~ understand the other ships in the squadron at the time the pic was taken were Volage, Wizard and Tumult.

[Dave Hutson]

Guess so mate. Undine was only visiting - we were the 6th F.S. then.

[harry.gibbon]

Morning Harry. Briefly what happened.
I was given the article which I thought would be of interest to Forum members. Asked Mod. which thread to post it on. Told to start a new thread and he would move it if necessary. Started "WW II Destroyers converted to A.S. Frigates." Eventually found it had been moved to this thread and took my cue from this thread's title. Posted info elsewhere and received pics and info that I have posted on here. I did not and have not read whole thread including 89 referred to. The Keil Canal Sqdn. remark was a sarkey reference to the number of Type 15's which had transited it. My conclusion. Its been an interesting exercise and I've learnt a lot about Type 15's. As we are often reminded the info on the Forums is not just for the present members but for future ones. Trust the above deconfuses you? David. P.S. I've been in enough trouble with the Mods without being in trouble with you as well!


Cheers David,

Pretty much de-confused:) now mate. I would guess that there are plenty more miles left in this topic/thread yet, since there were enough of the type to have a go at in their various guises/fits, so might run a while yet.

I think your thread title was the better of the two! ... but a simple removal of 'Information Needed' from the present title would equally suffice, so perhaps it's over to the Mods on that one!!!

Little h

[Pelican]

HMS VIRAGO
Doing some sea time and in dock plus some info of her history.
As a destroyer she had a very illustrious history in WWII in Russian convoys. She had the distinction of taking part in the most northerly naval engagement in WWII (Battle of North Cape) and the last major engagement, (Battle of Malacca Strait)

[MelQuick]

Here's a few.

Mel

[MelQuick]

- - - and a few more.

Mel

[Pelican]

Here's a few.

Mel
Mel. Cannot see the 7th's pic pennant number to look up name? The more you look at them the more you appreciate the amount of work that went into the conversions, leaving aside the calculations of balance - not being top heavy etc. The original engines must have been well built to last the course or perhaps they were 'reconditioned.' If posts continue like yours maybe we will end up with the full set!

[MelQuick]

Cannot see the 7th's pic pennant number to look up name?

Hi

The pennant no is in the title of each pic.

Mel

[Pelican]

Cannot see the 7th's pic pennant number to look up name?

Hi

The pennant no is in the title of each pic.

Mel
Silly me Mel. Blank moment. I should not stay up so late at my age! I also see her name is in the bottom righthand corner of the pic.

[Derek Dicker]

Hi all have a looksee at this link.


www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/u+v_class.htm




Derek (Bunts)

[Pelican]

TYPE 14'S - THE CAPTAIN CLASS?
I do not know anything about them apart from earlier posts in this thread. Were they built in their own right or were they also conversions? Appreciate this is not the correct place to pose the question apart from they are minus 1 from this threads subject. Info much appreciated. Incoming expected from our Mod. Wish someone would introduce me to the finer points of the 'Search' facility please, perhaps via a pm. Thank you.

[tjstoneman]

Mousey,
Although the Type 14s were named after RN captains from the days of sail, they were rarely, if ever, referred to as "Captain class" ships; the class was usually called the Blackwood class after the ship which was supposed to be the first-of-class (although HARDY actually commisioned first). There's a thread on this class at http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1457.
The Captain class frigates (sometimes called the Captains class) were actually US-built ships transferred to the RN during the Second World War. The USN referred to them as destroyer escorts (DEs), and the RN ones came from two distinct classes - the Buckley class and the Evarts class. An example was HMS BICKERTON (http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5503).
Tim

[qprdave]

Mousey

The type 15s and 16s were converted as a stop-gap until the Type 14s and Type 12s were built

I was on Undaunted and Russell and Type 15s were by far better sea boats than the Type 14s

Dave

[Pelican]

TYPE 14's
Thank you Tim and Dave.

[Pelican]

UNDINE & ROCKET
I have received the following information and pics:
HMS Undine after being kissed on the back side by HMS Ulysses on the 27 October 1958 at 0355 Hrs off the Ushant light in the Bay of Biscay, A fast passage out to the med 4 ships in line Blackpool Undaunted Undine and Ulysses, we lost power and Ulysses ran into us. Good job the watches were changing as it meant two thirds of the mess were on deck, she came inboard into the after seamen's.
HMS Rocket showing off her stem. The ship's bell has been in the care of the Maidstone Sea Cadets since the 1960's.

[Derek Dicker]

Mousey, I was due to join the Ulysses in Malta on her arrival, but change of cunning plan joined her in Guz instead. Continued the trip to the Med in December 58, sick as a dog all the way through the Bay of Biscay, got my sea legs.

Derek (Bunts)

[Pelican]

Mousey, I was due to join the Ulysses in Malta on her arrival, but change of cunning plan joined her in Guz instead. Continued the trip to the Med in December 58, sick as a dog all the way through the Bay of Biscay, got my sea legs.

Derek (Bunts)
Ditto Derek 7 years earlier. Med fleet went out into the Atlantic for joint exercises with Home fleet. When not on watch I spent 3 whole days on the flag deck with water and ship's biscuits. Down below I was know as 'seafever' but it did the trick and I have never been sick since.

[Pelican]

UNDINE & ROCKET
I have received the following information and pics:
HMS Undine after being kissed on the back side by HMS Ulysses on the 27 October 1958 at 0355 Hrs off the Ushant light in the Bay of Biscay, A fast passage out to the med 4 ships in line Blackpool Undaunted Undine and Ulysses, we lost power and Ulysses ran into us. Good job the watches were changing as it meant two thirds of the mess were on deck, she came inboard into the after seamen's.
HMS Rocket showing off her stem. The ship's bell has been in the care of the Maidstone Sea Cadets since the 1960's.
ROCKET ~ FURTHER INFO ON THIS PIC:
"The picture of the Rocket has its own tale, we were with the carrier Hermes and unfortunately got caught in a typhoon in the South China Sea, we were running out of FFO and as you can see by the flag R we were trying to take fuel from the carrier using the astern method hence the group of dab toes on the focsle. we were in the shelter of the carrier at the time. Admiral RED Le FANU was onboard the carrier, ex Ganges Captain."

[Pelican]

UNDINE & ROCKET
I have received the following information and pics:
HMS Undine after being kissed on the back side by HMS Ulysses on the 27 October 1958 at 0355 Hrs off the Ushant light in the Bay of Biscay, A fast passage out to the med 4 ships in line Blackpool Undaunted Undine and Ulysses, we lost power and Ulysses ran into us. Good job the watches were changing as it meant two thirds of the mess were on deck, she came inboard into the after seamen's.
HMS Rocket showing off her stem. The ship's bell has been in the care of the Maidstone Sea Cadets since the 1960's.
Rocket in the opposite position.
I am told that there is/was a pic of URSA in the 'bow up' position showing off her asdic dome? If anyone has a copy please post it.

[astraltrader]

ROCKET ~ FURTHER INFO ON THIS PIC:
"The picture of the Rocket has its own tale, we were with the carrier Hermes and unfortunately got caught in a typhoon in the South China Sea, we were running out of FFO and as you can see by the flag R we were trying to take fuel from the carrier using the astern method hence the group of dab toes on the focsle. we were in the shelter of the carrier at the time. Admiral RED Le FANU was onboard the carrier, ex Ganges Captain."

David I presume FFO stands for Fuel Furnace Oil - can you please try and remember to explain this rather than use an acronym that only ex-navy members would know.

Many thanks. :)

[harry.gibbon]

Re pic in post #139 this clearly shows an anti submarine frigate at its best.....

.... if the sonar reports can't be believed, then shove the bows down and have a look see from the bridge!!!:)

Little h

[Antipodean Andy]

Thanks for this thread, guys. I've had a ball reading about these ships. They certainly gave their fair share of service. Great pics too.

None survive in foreign service?

[Dave Hutson]

Hi Dave, Nice pic of Undine's rearranged back end and new back door in #135. Four years earlier that was the Boy's mess where I languished for six month's until I reached the dizzy age of Ord Tel. Killick of the Mess was a grizzly old three badger named "Stripey" Snellgrove. We shared that mess with the QM's and Bosun's Mates. Aft of us was the Tiller Flat and For'ard another Seaman's Mess.

Not the best of places to start your seagoing career because in any roughers and the screw coming out of the water the vibration and noise was something else. However, it was good for combating mal de mar.

Thanks for the memory. Yes they were good ships and goodlooking ships, most of them with a history.

Dave H

[tim lewin]

Dear Dave, or other moderator, sometime ago when we all first begun the forum i posted the story of Urching in the Big Storm of 1962 which some of the members of the time remembered being there! I wonder if with your superior skills you could find it and add it it (ditto the story of Urchin's stern) as the pics of Rocket are close to the tale, actually the oggin came right over the top of the bridge!
tim

[Pelican]

Dear Dave, or other moderator, sometime ago when we all first begun the forum i posted the story of Urching in the Big Storm of 1962 which some of the members of the time remembered being there! I wonder if with your superior skills you could find it and add it it (ditto the story of Urchin's stern) as the pics of Rocket are close to the tale, actually the oggin came right over the top of the bridge!
tim
Good evening Tim. How nice to hear from you after what we used to call/say "Long time no see." Not sure which Dave you are addressing? Certainly its not me as I do not have 'superior skills' regarding the search box and its complications. In fact Terry the Mod has just kindly forwarded some information on how to use advance search. The point of this post is to ask those more experienced to please respond to Tim's request because I am sure many of us will be more than interested in the results. Thank you

[astraltrader]

Dear Dave, or other moderator, sometime ago when we all first begun the forum i posted the story of Urchin in the Big Storm of 1962 which some of the members of the time remembered being there! I wonder if with your superior skills you could find it and add it it (ditto the story of Urchin's stern) as the pics of Rocket are close to the tale, actually the oggin came right over the top of the bridge!
tim


Tim and Mousey - this can be done but the trouble is that if they are added here they will go right back to the start of this thread as they were posted a long time ago. In which case most people would miss them anyway!

In view of this it might be worth Tim reposting them again so they would lead on from these posts.

It is either that or I can post a link to them so that members can view it from here.

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=985

.

[Scratcher]

My first ship,HMS Urchin's stern removed to be given to HMS Ulster.

Peter.

[tim lewin]

Dear Terry and Scratcher, i have sought this pic of the stern transplant for years so many thanks: the story of this can be found in my post #1 on 13-09-2007 in the "queenborough et al" thread together with a lot of other stuff on type 15s.
Will look for the storm story now.
Scratcher, were you there with my father, Terry Lewin? it was he who regaled me with the story but i was actually there for the storm.
all best
tim

[tim lewin]

The storm story is post #10 in the same thread, 13-02-08 Queenborough, Venus, Urchin, Wizard etc. Maybe you could kindly add the link Terry?
Tim

[tim lewin]

Apologies Terry, you already did it, many thanks; Scratcher, you would prob enjoy these extra stories on Urchin and T15s. Do you by any chance have the pic of Ulster's stern, from memory they were docked stern to stern?
All best
tim

[Scratcher]

Tim,Sorry that is the only picture I have of the stern,I will dig out my Service Doc's and check the dates Re time on Urchin.Onboard Urchin from April 1960,until Sept 1960.

Peter.

[Scratcher]

Apologies Tim,I did have a picture of HMS Ulster's Stern damage.

Peter.

[astraltrader]

Interesting pictures Ray. :)

[Pelican]

Tim and Mousey - this can be done but the trouble is that if they are added here they will go right back to the start of this thread as they were posted a long time ago. In which case most people would miss them anyway!

In view of this it might be worth Tim reposting them again so they would lead on from these posts.

It is either that or I can post a link to them so that members can view it from here.

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=985


.
THANK YOU Tim, Terry and everyone else for the further information.

[tim lewin]

Thanks all and to Scratcher for that splendid pic, worth almost 1000 words but makes my little story so much more real.
Ozzie Andy, there are no type 15's left in the world, Ulster was the last to the best of my knowledge and that thanks to Urchin's donation. These were conversions of emergency class destroyers, built from whatever steel could be found, generally referred to as "black steel" it rusted much more extravagantly than pre-war ships but then when they were built they were built for the moment, not to last 25 years plus. If you read the other thread which Dave kindly linked this one to you can see some of the stories of rust effects. I have had this discussioon with the former director of HMS Belfast several times when we have drawn comparisons with the original parts of the ship and those modernised during and after the war, in fact there is no comparison, the wartime and post war product is rubbish, it blows at the seams, it laminates it does all the things you would prefer a steel ship not to do.
tim

[Pelican]

I knew it ! :eek:

Truth will out , never mind Dave ...thought of you when I saw this ......

memories....... or did your Aide see to things like this for you , being one of the "Chosen Ones" :p
We appear to be viewing a toaster that can cope with 4 slices of bread? Tell us more of these dark secrets?

[Antipodean Andy]

These were conversions of emergency class destroyers, built from whatever steel could be found, generally referred to as "black steel" it rusted much more extravagantly than pre-war ships

Thanks, Tim. They were good looking ships before and after the conversion which is more can be said for other wartime classes that were modernised and kept going. I had a chuckle at a very serious subject though when I thought of steel rusting '"extravagantly".

[tim lewin]

Dear Mousey, if you go to the thread that Terry gave the link to you will find the whole story of Ulster's unfortunate reversing accident and the how and why of the need for the transplant; also the story of the big storm and others.
All best
tim

[Pelican]

Dear Mousey, if you go to the thread that Terry gave the link to you will find the whole story of Ulster's unfortunate reversing accident and the how and why of the need for the transplant; also the story of the big storm and others.
All best
tim
Have done Tim. Got the picture now. Thank you.

[Darleydave]

Wakeful entering Ponta Delgado 6.10.1966.

I remember ending up at a wine tasting festival but not too clear on leaving.

Dave

[CYLLA]

Where would you be in the photo Dave , up fwd some where.??

cylla

[Tony Fitt]

I served on Verulam 67-68 she was a trials ship for the 2001 Sonar being fitted in our nuclear submarines,. Spooky but i was drafted to submarines from her. All armament was removed and we carried a WW2 barrage balloon which was fitted to submarines which then dived so we could check the bearing accuarcy of the Sonar v the visual or radar bearing. Does anyone have any pictures of HMS Verulam?

[Destroyerman]

Tony,

I have a few, pre and post conversion. As the thrad indicates, you would probably want post conversion.;)

[Tony Fitt]

Tony,

I have a few, pre and post conversion. As the thrad indicates, you would probably want post conversion.;)

Yes please but it would be nice for to see the before and after pictures

[Destroyerman]

Tony,

I don't know if there are any better quality images of HMS VERULAM out there, but these are all I have.
1. Self explanatory. (But no pendant number).
2. R 28? Probably late 1945.
3. Post conversion.
4. Portland?
5. Basking at anchor.
6. Paying off after distinguished career.
7. Probably at the breakers yard.

[Tony Fitt]

Have saved all those. Many thanks she was the only ship that i served on that i had no phots for. Many Thanks

[limpet44]

:)So the old F29 got a mention at last.She was my first draft ,joined her at Portland 1961.after basic UC training at Vernon. She was indeed a trials ship for sonar type 2001.the sonar dome was apparently 60ft .She was also fitted with type 164 but never used.I was shown down to the messdeck, the Killick "Titch" Brookfield informed me there was no room in the mess so i must make up a camp bed in the diving store in the tiller flat,, nice, but i could eat in the mess.Lt.Cmd Wemyss was the skipper, we always seemed to be canteen boat,towing splash targets etc, thats if we weren't out in the middle of the pond pinging/listening.I think Whirlwind was senior ship, she was relieved by the Wakeful, then the Whirlwind came back to Portland for her workup,before going to the West Indies,we had to act as rioting dockies when she came alongside.We were fine till the Booties got ashore, they don;t skylark around like us matelots do they? Good ship pity about the accommodation.

[ivorthediver]

We appear to be viewing a toaster that can cope with 4 slices of bread? Tell us more of these dark secrets?


Picture taken aboard HMS CAVALIER whilst I was wandering around her at Chatham Docks
Dave and Harry would refer to this and the Iron as a means of supplementing there mess meals ....

Regards Ivor

[Pelican]

Picture taken aboard HMS CAVALIER whilst I was wandering around her at Chatham Docks
Dave and Harry would refer to this and the Iron as a means of supplementing there mess meals ....

Regards Ivor

Ivor - got there in the end.

[Dave Hutson]

:)So the old F29 got a mention at last.She was my first draft ,joined her at Portland 1961.after basic UC training at Vernon. She was indeed a trials ship for sonar type 2001.the sonar dome was apparently 60ft .She was also fitted with type 164 but never used.I was shown down to the messdeck, the Killick "Titch" Brookfield informed me there was no room in the mess so i must make up a camp bed in the diving store in the tiller flat,, nice, but i could eat in the mess.Lt.Cmd Wemyss was the skipper, we always seemed to be canteen boat,towing splash targets etc, thats if we weren't out in the middle of the pond pinging/listening.I think Whirlwind was senior ship, she was relieved by the Wakeful, then the Whirlwind came back to Portland for her workup,before going to the West Indies,we had to act as rioting dockies when she came alongside.We were fine till the Booties got ashore, they don;t skylark around like us matelots do they? Good ship pity about the accommodation.

If you go into the "Search" header and punch in "Verulam" it will direct you to all the threads or posts [your choice] regarding the non Fighting 29. I was on her 59/60 after she was converted for UDE's trials program.

Dave H

UDE - Underwater Deveiopment Establishment [Portland]

[D01Caprice]

I joined Grenville in January 1957 when she was employed as Captain (D) at Portland. A helicopter landing platform was fitted at Chatham that summer. The C.O.s were Captain Robertson DSC and Captain H.R.B (Dick) Janvrin DSC. I left Grenville in October 1958 for an FC2's course before joining Caprice emerging from Yarrow's Yard after extensive modernisation. At all times that I was in Grenville she displayed her pennant number F197.

[fulcrum]

Served on the Ursa July ’61 to Jan ’63, she was in Malta dockyard for months on end, the dockyard was taken over by a South Wales company – was it Baileys? We lived in the fleet air arm base at Hal Far. Don’t remember her as being a particularly happy ship. I went from the mess (stokers) to the Captains Table to be rated to killick and came down as no badge killick of the mess! We were very short of LME’s. Awarded myself a bunk!
On return to UK operating at night Clyde area had an argument with (I think) Battleaxe we had bow badly damaged back to the capstan. After a bit of a patch-up we went astern to Plymouth!

[Old Salt]

Served in Zest for two weeks as a Sea Cadet in 1956 : a seamanship course, learned a lot about living in the RN also. Even showed me how to walk with a little bit of a swagger.

Served in Ulster in 1971 for three weeks seatime when she was the Navigation Training Ship for HMS Dryad. A fine ship to drive, albeit in some tight places ! Jim Weatherall was the CO, a brilliant shiphandler. Probably why I still remember his name.

[INVINCIBLE]

Members of the forum interested in the Type 15 may like to be aware of a presentation on the those ASW frigates this coming Sunday at Explosion. Quote below:

Mark Brady returns to the Conference Hall with another lecture in the long running Sunday series, this time on Type 15 ASW Frigates.



During 1944 the British Admiralty learned that Germany was developing submarines which when fully-submerged would be much faster, and have far better endurance, than previous U-boats. Such craft were not deployed to significant effect during the war; but after 1945 increasing tension between the Soviet Union and the USA, in a period when the Russians were building submarines in extraordinary numbers, raised fears of a Third Battle of the Atlantic in which war-built escorts might be unable to defend mercantile convoys against enemy submarines. It was therefore decided to rebuild a number of war-built destroyers as Fast Anti-Submarine Frigates; and the resultant Type 15 conversions were revolutionary because they incorporated wartime lessons concerning seakeeping, ergonomics and habitability as well as having the latest anti-submarine weapons and sensors.



Mark will concentrate on the period between 1947, when the Staff Requirement was issued, and completion of the last Type 15 conversion in 1957. By then the international situation and perceptions of the submarine threat had changed: they were no longer required primarily as anti-submarine escorts, but their design was sufficiently sound that Type 15s remained in operational service a further 10 years and in second-line roles until the early 1970s.

http://www.explosion.org.uk/visitor-info/events-calendar/icalrepeat.detail/2011/01/23/46/53%7C54/MjlmZTJiM2FhZWNhMWVhNjhmYjcwYmQ2OTgzODUyNDk=/type-15-asw-frigates-sunday-talk-with-mark-brady.html

[Derek Dicker]

Hi all,

I remember joining Ulysses at Devonport dockyard, November 1958. Just qualified as a junior signalman from Ganges, crossing the gangway from the number one dock, kit bag and hammock.
She had returned to Devonport enroute Med, when hit the back end of the Undine. Was due to fly out to Malta to Join. Change of plan.
Of course being a junior bunting the first task was to paint the bloody mast.
Sailed for the Med late December 1958, sick as a dog all the way to Gib.
Force 8/9 all through the bay. not been sea sick since.
Remember Chief Yeoman Smith great guy looked after the young ones.


Derek (Bunts)

[alanandbren]

Hi all,

I remember joining Ulysses at Devonport dockyard, November 1958. Just qualified as a junior signalman from Ganges, crossing the gangway from the number one dock, kit bag and hammock.
She had returned to Devonport enroute Med, when hit the back end of the Undine. Was due to fly out to Malta to Join. Change of plan.
Of course being a junior bunting the first task was to paint the bloody mast.
Sailed for the Med late December 1958, sick as a dog all the way to Gib.
Force 8/9 all through the bay. not been sea sick since.
Remember Chief Yeoman Smith great guy looked after the young ones.


Derek (Bunts)

Should have stayed a seaman Derek,

Alan

[Teuchter]

[QUOTE=oldsalt;68689]Bunks in Frigates & Destroyers, I did'nt get a bunk till 1961 in the Ark Royal.:(:([/QUOT

You were lucky then Kieth - as a killick on the Ark in 64/65/66 I slept in a hammock or camp bed!!:D

[Pelican]

"Members of the forum interested in the Type 15 may like to be aware of a presentation on the those ASW frigates this coming Sunday at Explosion. Quote below:"
Thank you for the information Invincible. I posted it on another Forum where it has created interest and memories. e.g. The periscope in the enclosed bridge of Whirlwind which was put to good use sometimes! P.S. What is a bunk?

[INVINCIBLE]

"Members of the forum interested in the Type 15 may like to be aware of a presentation on the those ASW frigates this coming Sunday at Explosion. Quote below:"
Thank you for the information Invincible. I posted it on another Forum where it has created interest and memories. e.g. The periscope in the enclosed bridge of Whirlwind which was put to good use sometimes! P.S. What is a bunk?

Interogative bunk query - I had a hammock in URCHIN, my only Type 15 but thereafter always a bunk including two carriers and a cruiser (except in MoD during the Falklands when we had camp beds for a couple of months). When I arrived in FALMOUTH we all had bunks though not sure whether they had hammocks earlier in FALMOUTH, Little H would know.

[oldsalt]

Re bunks in Ark Royal, I was in 4V2 mess & being CPO's we had bunks. In the TV programm " Sailor" filmed in Ark ,the ratings mess decks had bunks of course the programme was filmed at a later date. T did you have to use a hammock or camp bed because there weren't enough bunks. I used a camp bed for a few months, sleeping in the Planned Maintenance Office, it was air conditioned.

[harry.gibbon]

When I arrived in FALMOUTH we all had bunks though not sure whether they had hammocks earlier in FALMOUTH, Little H would know.

Yes; Plenty hammocks pre-modernisation in JR's messdecks early 60's. Comms mess for instance was a shared broadsides messdeck, with (IIRC) the Seaman watchkeepers on stbd side/Comms port side - all hammocks bar 4 bunks each side(inboard on ships sides) for the killicks of respective messes.
I used a campbed in EWO so that freed up a bunk.

Sorry to digress about Type 12 issues on the Type 15 thread, but there was a hint that I respond:);)
Little h

[INVINCIBLE]

Yes; Plenty hammocks pre-modernisation in JR's messdecks early 60's. Comms mess for instance was a shared broadsides messdeck, with (IIRC) the Seaman watchkeepers on stbd side/Comms port side - all hammocks bar 4 bunks each side(inboard on ships sides) for the killicks of respective messes.
I used a campbed in EWO so that freed up a bunk.

Sorry to digress about Type 12 issues on the Type 15 thread, but there was a hint that I respond:);)
Little h

Harry,

Thanks - all trace of hammocks gone when I joined her in Dec 72, before setting off for USA. Very comfortable ship but agree not really relevant to Type 15, though they too were very comfortable ships.

[INVINCIBLE]

There was a splendid presentation today on the Type 15 in Explosion Museum, in Gosport. There was a fine model on display. The lecture was followed by a viewing in the special reserve collection of a Limbo Mortar Mk 10, together with handling room, Bidder E, and Bofors guns etc. I wonder if any members of the forum were inthe audience?

[ivorthediver]

There was a splendid presentation today on the Type 15 in Explosion Museum, in Gosport. There was a fine model on display. The lecture was followed by a viewing in the special reserve collection of a Limbo Mortar Mk 10, together with handling room, Bidder E, and Bofors guns etc. I wonder if any members of the forum were inthe audience?

Well I for one would have loved to have been there , but I spent the morning going through the Sky channels looking for Explosion thinking it was on the box :o

I was educated by mousy and intend visiting the place maybe next weekend :D

[john heffernan]

I am trying to find M.E.2 John Harwood who was in HMS Raleigh, class 218 1964. The Instructor was CPO Crosby. After passing out, I think he was drafted to HMS Londonderry. I would appreciate any information or anyone who can put me in touch with him.

[Pusser509]

Strange. All the posts in this thread since 23 January seem to have disappeared. Tech problem?

[Pash]

I am currently carrying out research in to the history of Type 15 Frigaters, and would be particularly interested in hearing from anyone who served on these ships. In particular accommodation, quality of food, incidents etc.

In additiion;:cool:superstructure was rivetted on to the old steel hull.

How did the ships compare with the more modern Captain Class Type 14's and the Whitby/Rothesay/Leander Classes.



I served on 3 type 15 frigates.

H.M.S Undaunted was my first ship from Jan 1962 to 1963. 2nd frigate squadron. I joined in refit in Rosyth. We were undertaking trials with an Agouti ! system that passed LP air down the shaft and out of the propeller tips. To this end we did clear water trials off Gib often at high speed. As I remember she was still capable of 33 knots. Rattled a lot though. I served as a Junior MEM and received a Captains Commendation for helping put the funnel cover in a gale alongside Q pier at Portland.

At one point we had a squadron race with all the other members of the squadron back from Den Helder (Netherlands) . We were faster than all the other ships which included type 12 and type 14 frigates so we pulled well ahead. It was a great sight. However we lost a main lubricating pump and had to slow right down and go down to one shaft for a while and we eventually came third (I think) the race was won by an old Hunt Class destroyer. The only one left This had been stripped down and had no armament. The Captian used to take her to sea wearing a riding helmet !!
I cant remember the name ?? Yes I can (just came to me) it was HMS Brockelsby !!

HMS Virago 1963 I joined for three months from HMS Sultan where I had upset the Commander and was sent to sea when I should have been working in his office. On the Virago I gained my ME(1) rate. I was Gear room watch keeper. Loved the freedom and responsibility of that job. We visited Ireland (Waterford) and Liverpool as well as the Isle of Man it was summer and we all had a great time. Left the ship in Devon port where we had to prepare her for reserve. She was later scrapped.

HMS Grenville 1969 to 1971 This was running as admiralty surface Weapons trials ship. I joined as a petty officer (Mech 3) straight from the 2 years Mechs course at Sultan (MQC 115) I left as a CPO (Ist Class Mechanician)
This was the best ship i ever served on. ThePOs mess was a wonderful group who worked hard and played harder. We had some great times from visiting places all over the UK and Europe and even going to Canada and the USA. I received the telegram of our first child (a boy) being born just off Malta in 1971. The mess was watching a movie (Carry on Cowboy) we never seen the third reel!!

On this ship I was boiler room then engine room part of ship. gaining my Boiler ticket (BWK) and Unit Ticket (UWK) and serving as Chief of the Watch. The Grenville could still reach high speeds well over 30 knots. biggest problems we had was with the main engine condensers causing contaminated feed water and I spent many hours inside them.

We slept in an annex outside the POs mess aft but ate and lived in the mess.
food was brought from the main Galley and we had a small pantry and a mess man.

The TOT came to an enduring this time and we made a small wooded coffin and placed into it the final tot of neaters in a bottle. I was very well made and lined with silk. I wonder what happened to it ??

Great ships great people and great times.

Peter

[oldsalt]

Great trip down memory lane, thanks.

[Allan SINCLAIR]

Where have all the threads post-Jan 23rd gone, please?

[Destroyerman]

I served on 3 type 15 frigates.

H.M.S Undaunted was my first ship from Jan 1962 to 1963. 2nd frigate squadron. I joined in refit in Rosyth. We were undertaking trials with an Agouti ! system that passed LP air down the shaft and out of the propeller tips. To this end we did clear water trials off Gib often at high speed. As I remember she was still capable of 33 knots. Rattled a lot though. I served as a Junior MEM and received a Captains Commendation for helping put the funnel cover in a gale alongside Q pier at Portland.

At one point we had a squadron race with all the other members of the squadron back from Den Helder (Netherlands) . We were faster than all the other ships which included type 12 and type 14 frigates so we pulled well ahead. It was a great sight. However we lost a main lubricating pump and had to slow right down and go down to one shaft for a while and we eventually came third (I think) the race was won by an old Hunt Class destroyer. The only one left This had been stripped down and had no armament. The Captian used to take her to sea wearing a riding helmet !!
I cant remember the name ?? Yes I can (just came to me) it was HMS Brockelsby !!

HMS Virago 1963 I joined for three months from HMS Sultan where I had upset the Commander and was sent to sea when I should have been working in his office. On the Virago I gained my ME(1) rate. I was Gear room watch keeper. Loved the freedom and responsibility of that job. We visited Ireland (Waterford) and Liverpool as well as the Isle of Man it was summer and we all had a great time. Left the ship in Devon port where we had to prepare her for reserve. She was later scrapped.

HMS Grenville 1969 to 1971 This was running as admiralty surface Weapons trials ship. I joined as a petty officer (Mech 3) straight from the 2 years Mechs course at Sultan (MQC 115) I left as a CPO (Ist Class Mechanician)
This was the best ship i ever served on. ThePOs mess was a wonderful group who worked hard and played harder. We had some great times from visiting places all over the UK and Europe and even going to Canada and the USA. I received the telegram of our first child (a boy) being born just off Malta in 1971. The mess was watching a movie (Carry on Cowboy) we never seen the third reel!!

On this ship I was boiler room then engine room part of ship. gaining my Boiler ticket (BWK) and Unit Ticket (UWK) and serving as Chief of the Watch. The Grenville could still reach high speeds well over 30 knots. biggest problems we had was with the main engine condensers causing contaminated feed water and I spent many hours inside them.

We slept in an annex outside the POs mess aft but ate and lived in the mess.
food was brought from the main Galley and we had a small pantry and a mess man.

The TOT came to an enduring this time and we made a small wooded coffin and placed into it the final tot of neaters in a bottle. I was very well made and lined with silk. I wonder what happened to it ??

Great ships great people and great times.

Peter

Great memories Peter. Even more so, considering that we were messmates on HMS UNDAUNTED.:D Wonderful to hear that you are well after 50 years.

Good ships, the type 15's (and type 16's too).

Sandy.

[johnny07]

I served ON both type 15/14s First the Volage Converted in about 51.i was on her 54/55 in Derrygood ship General Messing and Hammocks.Then the Exmouth in 57/58 Most of the time at Cowes, as far asi can remember we all had hammocks i did any way and general messing.Bad sea ships had some rough times durring builders sea trials.
BENBOW30

Was that because the 14 only had one screw. :confused:

[johnny07]

Interogative bunk query - I had a hammock in URCHIN, my only Type 15 but thereafter always a bunk including two carriers and a cruiser (except in MoD during the Falklands when we had camp beds for a couple of months). When I arrived in FALMOUTH we all had bunks though not sure whether they had hammocks earlier in FALMOUTH, Little H would know.

I was in Falmouth in 1962 on the Derry Squadron, Iwas in the POs mess port side aft across the Burma Road from the NAAFI shop. We had bunks then.

[INVINCIBLE]

I was in Falmouth in 1962 on the Derry Squadron, Iwas in the POs mess port side aft across the Burma Road from the NAAFI shop. We had bunks then.

Johnny

Thanks for that - interesting. Harry says in post #181 above that there were plenty of hammocks for junior rates in Falmouth pre modernisation. Rank has its privileges !

[Pinger]

I am currently carrying out research in to the history of Type 15 Frigaters, and would be particularly interested in hearing from anyone who served on these ships. In particular accommodation, quality of food, incidents etc.

In additiion;

Were the Squid anti submarine mortars fitted to some of the ship re cycled from war built ships.

As above but the twin 4 inch Mk XIX turrets and guns.

What problems were there with corrosion where the new aluminium superstructure was rivetted on to the old steel hull.

How did the ships compare with the more modern Captain Class Type 14's and the Whitby/Rothesay/Leander Classes.

If it is of any help I served on Ulster F83 followed by Vigilant F93, the former was one of only three with a higher enclosed bridge than early conversions, the other two being Troubridge and Zest. I run a website fore HMS Ulster, leave me a message there at www.candoo.com/ulsternorrie (http://www.candoo.com/ulsternorrie)

[Pinger]

I am sorry to disagree with you but she had a flight deck in 1970 when I was there and she had it when she was sunk. Here's a picture after the first attempt.

I was Staff NBCDI 1974-77 and 'Unwanted' had her flight deck then and I did an inspection of her after first attempt at sinking her failed. Frighting stuff to think massive damage sustained on an empty, no fuel or ammunition ship hit by a missile with no warhead.

[ivorthediver]

Can you please tell me whether HMS Troubridge had the same type of squid layout aft as HMS ZEST :confused:

[Scratcher]

Ivor,I think you will find that both ships were fitted with A/S Mortar Mk10,not Squid.When they were converted to Type 15's.

Peter.

[ivorthediver]

Ivor,I think you will find that both ships were fitted with A/S Mortar Mk10,not Squid.

Peter.

Thank you Scratcher , I am in the throws of making a 1/96 scale model of HMS TROUBRIDGE and only have plans of others which whilst type 15 's differ on some points and I'm not sure what the changes are , other than the bridge detail

[oldsalt]

Ivor,I think you will find that both ships were fitted with A/S Mortar Mk10,not Squid.When they were converted to Type 15's.

Peter. Is that, what we ignorami, called the Limbo?

[Dave Hutson]

Is that, what we ignorami, called the Limbo?

Was when I was on Undine Keith - as you said in another thread - are we getting old - you bet your life we are - but we is still here.;);):)

Dave H

[ivorthediver]

Is that, what we ignorami, called the Limbo?


Give me time and I'll try to get a picture on this thread :)

[tjstoneman]

Squid (Mortar Mk 4) and Mortar Mk 10 (codename was "Limbo" but rarely referred to as such) are discussed in a thread on this site (http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5902).
Tim

[ivorthediver]

Squid (Mortar Mk 4) and Mortar Mk 10 (codename was "Limbo" but rarely referred to as such) are discussed in a thread on this site (http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5902).
Tim

Readily acknowledged Tim .....just trying to find out if it was fitted to HMS TROUBRIDGE for reasons outlined ....but thanks

[ivorthediver]

Can you help me please :)

I have plans for HMS RAPID a Type 15 ....and to date I have little or no detail of the type 10 A/S mortar fitted to HMS Troubridge ...has any one got any pictures or photograph's of this please :o

[Polycell]

They were fitted to Troubridge when I was on there in 63!

[jbryce1437]

I have several photos of Troubridge, which show her Mk 10 Mortar Mountings, unfortunately not of very good resolution. I have attached one of her and one of another Type 15 which shows the layout of the mountings which were, generally, the same throughout the class.

Jim

[MelQuick]

Jim

Nice pics of Troubridge.

Mel

[astraltrader]

Ivor - Its very difficult to find a decent picture of Troubridge that shows the Limbo mortars at all clearly. Whilst I have many pictures of Troubridge they tend to be emphasising the bows rather than the stern.

I show this picture not because it is a particularly good picture of the ship but because it at least shows you exactly where they were fitted on Troubridge.

[buster185]

Ivor, re Troubridge, here are a couple of clips from Pathe. About halfway through the first clip, it shows the Limbos on a Type 12 which had the in-line configuration. This gives some good close-up detail of the mountings and how they are loaded and move. The ship in the second clip is a Type 15 fitted with the off-set configuration, not so detailed but shows the correct configuration for your model. Hope this is helpful.
Regards
Buster



http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=67195

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=64151

[tonclass]

Ivor - Its very difficult to find a decent picture of Troubridge that shows the Limbo mortars at all clearly. Whilst I have many pictures of Troubridge they tend to be emphasising the bows rather than the stern.

I show this picture not because it is a particularly good picture of the ship but because it at least shows you exactly where they were fitted on Troubridge.

Interesting pic, Terry. Have you ever seen it in colour ?

[tim lewin]

business end of Urchin's limbo.....

[ivorthediver]

They were fitted to Troubridge when I was on there in 63!


Thank you Fred I thought they were but needed confirmation

Regards Ivor

[ivorthediver]

Thank you Jim , Terry , Buster , Rik , Tim.....for taking the time and trouble to find and post those for me ....which are very useful to me and will help to piece together the information I am trying to obtain

Whilst I am slowly collecting the information to build the model I still have large gaps to fill on HMS TROUBRIDGE superstructure ...both detail and identification of fittings .........easy for you :) as you were there at the time ........difficult for me :o as I have never seen her ...so again my thanks

[ivorthediver]

How were the Morters fired ... By charge or by compressed air please?

[Scratcher]

Fired by a Charge,the size of such charge depended on the type of Bomb been fired.Light,Inert,Live.The breech on the Mortar is shown in Picture No 3 that I sent you.

Peter.

[Derek Dicker]

Hi All. A complete live pattern was great for fishing in the Med.
And of course a great sight.
Ulysses 1958/59


Derek (Bunts)

[Dave Hutson]

Agreed Derek - Undine 1955 - Med [Home Fleet Spring Cruise]

[ivorthediver]

Was the propeller on the back a means of arming the Mortar as it sank or was this all done prior to firing please Peter
Regards ivor

[qprdave]

With the Squid, there was a cable that came out of the nose of the bomb. This was used to pass the relevant information (Depth) to the bomb prior to firing. As the bomb was fired, it was ripped out.

With the Mark 10, there was a thin copper ring about 6 inches down from the front and the information was passed to the bomb through this.

Dave

[Scratcher]

There were no propellers Ivor just a Fin/Tail unit to give some stability to the projectile whilst in the Air.

Peter.

[qprdave]

Fired by a Charge,the size of such charge depended on the type of Bomb been fired.Light,Inert,Live.

Scratcher

In my experience the inert was never fired. Being filled with concrete it was used for drill practice

Mind you, I am sure that more than a few were fired off in error.

Dave

[Scratcher]

I'll speak to my source,how dare he give me duff info.

[ivorthediver]

Fired by a Charge,the size of such charge depended on the type of Bomb been fired.Light,Inert,Live.The breech on the Mortar is shown in Picture No 3 that I sent you.

Peter.


Thank you Peter ,

Light Mortar
Live Mortar

What are the differences in charge here please Peter :confused:

[ivorthediver]

With the Squid, there was a cable that came out of the nose of the bomb. This was used to pass the relevant information (Depth) to the bomb prior to firing. As the bomb was fired, it was ripped out.

With the Mark 10, there was a thin copper ring about 6 inches down from the front and the information was passed to the bomb through this.

Dave

Thank you Dave,
very much for that , but how was the information passed through the copper ring ...was it just a copper ring..... or a p.c.b..... capable of analising the data sent please :confused:

[ivorthediver]

There were no propellers Ivor just a Fin/Tail unit to give some stability to the projectile whilst in the Air.

Peter.


OK understand now thank you Peter ....I thought it may have been an arming device as found on Bombs as they fall to the ground :o

[ivorthediver]

what technical detail could be loaded into this Mortar other than depth setting please :confused:

[qprdave]

Nothing Ivor

The bearing and range are dictated by the bearing and angle of the mortar barrels

[Pusser509]

Thank you Scratcher , I am in the throws of making a 1/96 scale model of HMS TROUBRIDGE and only have plans of others which whilst type 15 's differ on some points and I'm not sure what the changes are , other than the bridge detail

I am attaching a scan of the Mk 10 Mortar arrangement in HMCS Crescent. It is likely the same as Troubridge. Hope it might be of some use.

Cheers

Don

[ivorthediver]

I am attaching a scan of the Mk 10 Mortar arrangement in HMCS Crescent. It is likely the same as Troubridge. Hope it might be of some use.

Cheers

Don


Many thanks Don , very grateful for your help here

Regards Ivor

[Tony Fitt]

what technical detail could be loaded into this Mortar other than depth setting please :confused:

Max range 1000 yds! as an ex submariner of that era if a ship was that close to a submarine stand by to abandon ship Mk 8s incoming!!!!

[qprdave]

Max range 1000 yds! as an ex submariner of that era if a ship was that close to a submarine stand by to abandon ship Mk 8s incoming!!!!

That is certainly true, Tony.

But..........

A surface ship will very rarely hunt submarines alone. Would it be wise to be at periscope depth, lining up your shot when another ship is coming in fast to do the business.

Captain Walker had the right idea. one ship keeping in contact and others doing the attacking.

It also has to be remembered that most A/S ships had a Wasp on board or was in company with other ships that had them. They were equipped with Helo dropped torpedo's.

[oldsalt]

During my time I never saw a ship carrying a Wasp helicopter with torpedoes. I am pretty certain they were not in WW2.

[qprdave]

Sorry Keith

This is not about type 15 Frigates in WW11. In fact they didn't exist until the early 1950's. Type 15s did survive into the early 60s & 70s when the Wasps were flying and were capable of carrying Anti-Submarine Torpedo's. Anti-Submarine warfare was the primary worry in the Royal Navy until the Eliat was sunk by missile fire by a small fast boat in 1967.

I still think that a submarine would think twice about being at periscope depth to fire a torpedo when there were other A/S Frigates in the area.

Later, it would be much more difficult for a submarine to get close enough to fire a torpedo. Hunter Killer submarines would be much further out and A/S Helo's would be out there as well all well capable of attacking and sinking a submarine closing to attack.

I am not sure the strategy is now when submarines can carry longer range missiles.

Dave

[qprdave]

Thank you Peter ,

Light Mortar
Live Mortar

What are the differences in charge here please Peter :confused:

There were three types of Mortar Bomb. Live, Light, Inert

Live. Carried nearly 400lb of Torpex. Used in attacking Submarine. Coloured Green

Inert. Carried nearly 400lb of Concrete. Used for drill in Handing room and bomb room (Magazine under Handing room). Also used by the Tiffs (Artificers) to test the firing mechanisms. Coloured Black

Light. Empty. Used during exercises to fire at the position of the submarine. The Submarine was then asked to indicate it's position by smoke. Recovered after use. Small hole in it to let water in slowly, so, if it is not picked up it will sink. Coloured Yellow or Orange

Dave

[oldsalt]

Sorry Keith

This is not about type 15 Frigates in WW11. In fact they didn't exist until the early 1950's. Type 15s did survive into the early 60s & 70s when the Wasps were flying and were capable of carrying Anti-Submarine Torpedo's. Anti-Submarine warfare was the primary worry in the Royal Navy until the Eliat was sunk by missile fire by a small fast boat in 1967.

I still think that a submarine would think twice about being at periscope depth to fire a torpedo when there were other A/S Frigates in the area.

Later, it would be much more difficult for a submarine to get close enough to fire a torpedo. Hunter Killer submarines would be much further out and A/S Helo's would be out there as well all well capable of attacking and sinking a submarine closing to attack.

I am not sure the strategy is now when submarines can carry longer range missiles.

Dave

I served in Wrangler before she was turned into a Type 15, I served in Troubridge & Vigilant when they were Type 15. I left the RN in 1972 & there were no Type 15s carrying helicopters then. All the Type15s were of course WW2 destroyers before conversion. They may certainly have been capable as you say, but it didn't happen, if it did which Type 15 are you talking about.

[qprdave]

Type 15s did survive into the early 60s & 70s when the Wasps were flying and were (the wasps) capable of carrying Anti-Submarine Torpedo's.

I didn't say that Type 15s carried Wasps, Although, on the Undaunted, during exercises we did have a Wasp loaned from Portland that was tied to the flight deck. (Undaunted was equipped with a flight deck to exercise pilots in deck landings and take offs). And it carried out mock attacks on submarine contacts. Although Undaunted wasn't fitted to carry torpedo's, I am sure that they would have been in time of tension (possibly in the 4" magazine). If we had gone to war during that time, I am sure that the rest of the Type 15s would have had a heli-pad fitted.

The reason of my post was to question that a submarine would definitely attack a warship if it came within range of the Mk.10. When other escorts were searching and attacking it.

Dave

[Tony Fitt]

Type 15s did survive into the early 60s & 70s when the Wasps were flying and were (the wasps) capable of carrying Anti-Submarine Torpedo's.

I didn't say that Type 15s carried Wasps, Although, on the Undaunted, during exercises we did have a Wasp loaned from Portland that was tied to the flight deck. (Undaunted was equipped with a flight deck to exercise pilots in deck landings and take offs). And it carried out mock attacks on submarine contacts. Although Undaunted wasn't fitted to carry torpedo's, I am sure that they would have been in time of tension (possibly in the 4" magazine). If we had gone to war during that time, I am sure that the rest of the Type 15s would have had a heli-pad fitted.

The reason of my post was to question that a submarine would definitely attack a warship if it came within range of the Mk.10. When other escorts were searching and attacking it.

Dave

The primary weapon of RN Submarines was the Mk 8 Torpedo with a range of 2500 yds so we had a massive range advantage over rhe Mk 10.

[qprdave]

I totally agree with you Tony.

As A/S ships would work in in groups. and to sink one of them would bring the others in. Would a Submarine Captain risk his boat on what might be a suicidal attack just to sink one escort?

When Captain Walker brought in his plan to have one ship in contact all of the time and others attacking together giving the U-Boat Captain no room to manoeuvre. They suffered a terrible toll.

Modern times, they can now stand off and fire missiles but Hunter Killers would be there to try and stop that. If they got past the Hunter Killers, A/S Helo's would be there with their dunking sonars of Sonobouys.

Having said that. I feel as if we are going way off topic from Type 15s.

Perhaps a new thread could be started to carry on the discussion.

Dave

[Pash]

I totally agree with you Tony.

As A/S ships would work in in groups. and to sink one of them would bring the others in. Would a Submarine Captain risk his boat on what might be a suicidal attack just to sink one escort?

When Captain Walker brought in his plan to have one ship in contact all of the time and others attacking together giving the U-Boat Captain no room to manoeuvre. They suffered a terrible toll.

Modern times, they can now stand off and fire missiles but Hunter Killers would be there to try and stop that. If they got past the Hunter Killers, A/S Helo's would be there with their dunking sonars of Sonobouys.

Having said that. I feel as if we are going way off topic from Type 15s.

Perhaps a new thread could be started to carry on the discussion.

Dave


Its not that far off topic and just makes it more complicated to hold a thread in my view.
I agree AS frigates Type 15s included dont usually act individually.

The point is not a confrontation between weapons (MK8 Torpedo vs MK 10 Mortar) Its between weapon systems (ships vs submarines) Fact is ships In WW2 certainly gained the upper hand.
Of course the AS mortar is limited in range but the type 15s were fitted with a very effective long range sonar and hunting a submarine often took time allowing more than one ship to take part. Not too mention other ships with helicopters etc.

The Undaunted certainly had a flight deck when I was aboard (1962 to 63) and Wasps often landed took off and were carried.

I agree with you, as an ex submariner (for a short time) and I had 3 type 15s I would rather be a Skimmer any day when it comes to AS action.