Destroyer I65 Dardanelles

[castlemaine]

G'day

Can anyone help me identify Pennant No I [eye] Sixty Five used to ferry Anzac re-inforcements during July 1915.

Main suspects are Colne Chelmer & Ribble.

Is there a complete listing of Pennant Numbers anywhere?

Thanks
Bluey

[jbryce1437]

I have a set of Pennant numbers that I have been compiling, but the I65 that I have on that list is the RCN ship St Clair, which was 2nd WW. The list is incomplete and I will be grateful for any additions.
If you email me at jbryce1437@aol.com I will send you a Word document by return with the latest version of my list.

Jim

[AlZictorini]

Interesting?

The above ships mentioned are of the E (River) Class of destroyers. Dittmar & Colledges book "British Warships 1914-19 (Ian Allan), Pendants", is one of the best books I have come across for Pendant numbers. Out of the 27 Rivers Class Destroyers listed within this book, 7 of them do not have Pendants numbers assigned to them, 3 of which are: Colne Chelmer & Ribble (Jed Kennet Usk & Welland being the others, NB all in China in 1914). You may find that a local Pendant Number for the Dardanelles was issued to Warships serving in this area. Common letters for these Destroyers was usually N, D & H.
This would be a good one to crack.

Good Hunting
AlZ

[Batstiger]

Hi Bluey.
I can't help you with the Pennant number but I do have a pic here of HMS Usk which was out there with that campaign and a bit of history with it where there is mention of the Chelmer etc.

Bob.

[castlemaine]

Thanks for the replies, have just got back on-line and am greatly impressed.

G'day Jim
Thanks for the list. On a quick run-through you seem to have the RAN pretty well covered, thanks.

G'day AIZ
Thanks, Just my luck! Would it be possible to list the 'gaps' in the I pendants?
We now have seven un-numbered ships, and if there are not too many missing numbers might be able to do a bit of guestimating.
Could you id HMS Rattlesnake for me pls.
As an aside JeFF Kennett was a fairly hi-profile State Premier 'down here' funny to see JeD Kennett on your list.

G'day Bob
Thanks, every litle bit helps. I don't recall any mention of Usk, and she may well be a candidate.

Bluey

[castlemaine]

G'day
My 'assignment' was to identify the Destroyer which landed Machine Gunners of the 8th Australian Light Horse Regiment on 27th July 1915. Strangely enough none of the personal accounts I accessed give the ships name. That is most unusual, as the men tended to record the minutest detail in their 'travel itinerary'. One man recorded ""HM Torpedoboat Destroyer I65" which had been 'interpreted' as one-six-five.

Personally, I am surprised that the number, not the name, would have impressed him. Had the number been painted prominently on the side, and you were in a ships boat alongside, fair enough! But on most pictures of the campaign no numbers are visible.

Can anyone give a date from which the numbers were painted on the hulls?

Bluey

[AlZictorini]

HMS Rattlesnake, D94 as of Feb 1915, no reported listing change until June 1918 when she became HC7.

HMS Foxhound, recorded as H16 in Jan 1918 changing to H58 six months later. There are reports that she may have used the Pendant H56 also but this is unconfirmed.

Pennant Numbers when painted on the side of the ships hull, these would have been easier to see than the ships name.

Try this link for a list of Pendants.
http://www.gwpda.org/naval/s0420000.htm

Note of interest:

I have found a trawler that was given the Admiralty Number 165. It was the Grimsby Trawler “Boreas” GY 338. She was converted as a minesweeper and fitted with a 6 pounder. Unsure if she went to Dardanelles (Trawler Minesweepers were sent). With this in mind, I’m unsure if she would have displayed the number 165 on her hull?

Also: I can only find that the 8 & 9th light horse landed from May 21, not July?

[castlemaine]

G'day AlZ [right this time?]

I am only 'helping out' but the man was a machine gunner who did not catch up with the 8th LHR until July.

Your list backs up the info you previously gave about the 7 'un-numbered' destroyers including my "suspects". That seems to suggest that he was not actually on a destroyer. I was too eager to assume that they would have numbers near the RAN and other "River Class" and therefore include I 65.

I have no quick access to a trawler [or minesweeper] Boreas, but many other 8th men mention "Clacton". Would you have access to her 'number', maybe someone transposed digits, rather than an eye for a one.

Thanks again for the time & effort you have taken.

Bluey

[AlZictorini]

Good Morning Bluey

HMS Clacton was a Screw Minesweeper, Pennant Numbers M30 from 1914 until Sep 1915 when she became the T04 (T Zero Four), she did serve in the Dardanelles in 1915 but I'm unsure of her arrival date (reported as being with the Minesweeper Newmarket in Jan 1915 at Sennen Cove Cornwall). She was sunk on the 3rd Aug 1916 by U73 at Chai Aghizi in the Levant.
She’s listed as being built in 1904 and being of 820 Tons, she also carried x2 12 Pounder Guns.

An area for you to consider was the use of X-Lighter Landing Craft. These craft were designed for use in the Dardanelles; they were numbered X1 to X200. They would quite possibly just have had their number displayed on the hull side without the X flag superior. They would have been in use in July to land troops.

Have a look at this link for the best picture of a X-Lighter I could find.

http://www.papershipwright.co.uk/ps22/details.shtml

Regards

AlZ

[castlemaine]

"Morning AlZ,

Given the numbers you quote, "Clacton" looks pretty remote. The majority of references to her were about her work in transferring wounded to the Hospital Ships, so it's a pity about her fate.

Grasping at straws, I note from "arrowsmith" that "Foxhound" was H 16.
Apparently the destroyer was nominated from memory over 50 years later, two outa three numbers is not too bad. At least we can now rule out Scorpion, Scourge, and Rattlesnake who had numbers.

Thanks for the detail on the X lighters, but I am prepared to discount them. There is, to my knowledge, no reference to them being used prior to Suvla for ferrying Anzacs.

Thanks again,

I'm off back to the jig saw puzzle, and the laws of probability.

See Ya!
Bluey

[stontamar]

Hi castlemaine

Going back through old postings I came across your request relating to the landings by the 8th Australian Light Horse Regisment on Gallipoli in July 1915.

As a long shot have you tried contacting the Australian War Memorial's Research Centre enquiry service – see http://www.awm.gov.au/research/infosheets/intro.asp

This centre holds copies of the Australian Army war diaries - First World War - Class 10/13 AWM4, 10/13/3 - 8th Australian Light Horse Regiment July 1915. Please see http://www.awm.gov.au/research/index.htm

Hope this is of some help, presumably the unit's war diary should make reference to any embarkation on a destroyer or other ship/vessel prior to landing.

Regards

stontamar

[castlemaine]

G'day Stontamar

Thank you for the interest & assistance.
Several other people, more acquainted with AWM and other official records, are also 'on the case'. I undertook the more 'ask around' approach, and am happy with the results despite not getting THE answer.
The major problem with this query is that it relates to a relatively small party of re-inforcements, including some machine-gunners, and whilst the 8th ALH Regiment is well documented, our man slipped under the radar.

An intersting 'sidetrack' from the query led to a couple of chapters in "ABC's" Admiral Cunningham, book "A Sailor's Odyssey" re his time as captain of the "Scorpion" during the Dardanelles Campaign.

Thanks again

Bluey

ps

we have just revived a project downunda to provide access to 'our' WW2 Corvette Museum Ship. It was one of the 60 "Australian Minesweeper" or "Bathurst Class" Corvettes. The wip website is at
http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/hmascast/index.html

thanks for the heads up on the book about the Buangor Corvettes

Any tips and links [our initial pre-occupation] would be appreciated

[Barry Wilkinson]

With reference to HMS Clacton my great uncle Walter C Turner served on her as an Engineer Lieutenant RNR until December 1915 when he was invalided home and discharged. He was originally the ship's second engineer working for the Great Eastern Railway and was commissioned when she was taken over by the Admiralty. I have his daily diaries which I am currently working on and can confirm that she arrived at Lemnos on Saturday 10th April 1915 having sailed from Devonport on Thursday 25th March 1915. The dairies halt immediately on his leaving the Clacton but I know that he returned to GER service as he was presented with an inscribed gold watch (which his great grandson owns) by the GER when his ship the SS Cromer was involved in an incident with a U-Boat in the North Sea in 1917 (echoes of Captain Fryatt and SS Brussels!). However, despite extensive research I am unable to find out any more about this so any help would be very much appreciated.

Barry Wilkinson (ex-Warrant Officer RN)

[historydavid]

Barry, all I have on the incident:

On 15th June 1915 the SS Cromer, 812 grt, was persude by an unidentified U-boat near the Galloper, but escaped by her own speed.

[herakles]

Also: I can only find that the 8 & 9th light horse landed from May 21, not July?

I am not aware of any landings of the Light Horse in July either. I presume that replacements were sent to Gallipoli from time to time however.

As well as the 8th and 9th, the 10th was also present.

Irritatingly, the article in Wiki on the Light Horse almost completely ignores their actions at Gallipoli.

[Barry Wilkinson]

Barry, all I have on the incident:

On 15th June 1915 the SS Cromer, 812 grt, was persude by an unidentified U-boat near the Galloper, but escaped by her own speed.

Thanks David for your quick response - I shall keep digging! I presume the 1915 means 1917!!

Best wishes

Barry Wilkinson

[Barry Wilkinson]

The 'Clacton' diaries read as follows for the 27th July 1915:
'Arrived Anzac 2.00am - discharged troops and stores. Stood off shore and took on wounded etc. and left Anzac at 12.30pm for Mudros'. The previous day (26th) reads 'Weighed anchor (at Mudros) 6.30pm - to SS Aragon - embarked 500 troops and left at 8.15pm for Anzac'

[historydavid]

Hello Barry, sorry for the misunderstanding. The incident I referred to did take place in 1915. I don't have anything on the 1917 incident you refer to.