View Full Version : NEWS: HMAS Success Sex Betting Scandal
kookaburra
05-07-2009, 05:43
Uh-oh. This one is all over the news here today: The Age
Betting-on-sex scandal should be investigated: Gillard
July 5, 2009 - 12:24PM
An alleged contest among sailors to have sex with as many female crewmates as possible needs to be fully investigated by the Australian Defence Force, Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard says.
Ms Gillard said nothing should preclude women from enjoying a full and rewarding career in the Australian Defence Force.
A group of sailors from HMAS Success was sent home and an inquiry launched after they allegedly organised a challenge to have sex with as many female crewmates as possible.
"Obviously this is a matter for our defence forces to deal with and to fully investigate," Ms Gillard told Network Ten today.
She said both the government and the nation had been saying for a long time that women should be able to join the army, the navy or air force.
"We don't want to see anything that precludes women from having a good career in our armed forces if that is what they choose to do with their lives. Clearly these allegations need to be fully investigated," she said.
"In the first instance we need our defence hierarchy to get on with the job of investigating these claims and taking appropriate action."
The Seven Network reported that the sailors allegedly detailed their contest in a document called "The Ledger" where dollar values were placed on each woman's head, during an overseas deployment in May.
Larger amounts were offered if the sailors could sleep with a female officer or a lesbian and sailors challenged each other to have sex in various locations, including on top of a pool table, the report said.
The arrangement was discovered while HMAS Success was visiting Singapore.
The captain ordered the sailors to immediately return home to Australia after they were formally interviewed.
The Defence Department confirmed a formal inquiry was underway but said "the veracity of any allegations has yet to be confirmed".
"The individuals were removed from the ship after an equity and diversity health check, which led to a formal inquiry being initiated," a defence statement said.
"During the equity and diversity health check a number of concerns were raised by female crew members. These concerns are now subject to formal inquiry."
AAP
patroclus
05-07-2009, 06:12
As a matter of interest, what is an "equity and diversity health check"?
kookaburra
05-07-2009, 06:55
Um - good question!
astraltrader
05-07-2009, 19:58
Probably a check for STD`s.
SCRG1970
05-07-2009, 20:08
Who said allowing women at sea would end in "tears"? Excuse pun !!
Regards
Gerry
harry.gibbon
05-07-2009, 23:10
There but for the Grace of Gawd goes the RN ....
How does any Navy get out of something like this???
The practice of sending men and women to sea in a warship together ... well now how many of us old hands said it was fraught with problems !!! ???
Ships crewed exclusively by females? is that the answer?
Don't know the answer but sure as hell wouldn't want a member of my family embroiled in this one... nightmare!!!
Little h
The very reason why I left the RAN.
This was just too obvious! I was the Quality Control of Training officer on HMAS Stalwart when they tried to turn it into a training ship to save it from sale. I could see the problems right from the outset and indicated as much in my report to the training command.
RAN post 1992 is littered with stories like this - male and female fraternisation.
Funny how you want something so much that when you get it, it was nothing like what you expected it to be.
John O'Callaghan
06-07-2009, 07:25
Hi All!
I told Their Lordships years ago. No good will come of closing down Bugis Street. They would not listen!
Here's to the Old Navy!
Rum,Sodomy and the Lash!
And I don't know which I miss the most!
you're a sick lad number 8.. but you have got a good sense of humour
wagga
John O'Callaghan
07-07-2009, 03:01
Wagga Old Mate.
With some things in this world it's either laugh or cry.Have you seen the price of hankies these days?
Cheers John O'C.
Jackaroo
30-10-2009, 23:50
No sex ledger but navy investigation continues October 21, 2009 .
THE Royal Australian Navy says its investigation into claims of sexual misbehaviour by sailors on the supply ship HMAS Success is still under way.
Senior officers told a Senate estimates committee hearing in Canberra yesterday that the navy had never suggested that the sailors ran a competition with a ''sex ledger'' on how many female shipmates they could sleep with. They said that claim was made by the media and it was not part of the current investigation.
The Opposition's defence spokesman, David Johnston, said this week that navy investigators concluded months ago that the claim, widely repeated around the world, was not true. He said four petty officers, sent off their ship in disgrace, were owed an apology.
Senator Johnston asked the Chief of the Navy, Vice-Admiral Russ Crane, and the Defence Minister, John Faulkner, about the allegations, but he was told they couldn't do or say anything about the issue until the navy had finished its inquiry.
Senator Johnston said the system was fundamentally flawed and corrupt. ''I don't think our leaders can hide behind this option."
He said that for the past five months the accused sailors had been in Sydney and prevented from returning to their ship.
Their names and reputations were still under a cloud. ''The navy has left them swinging in the breeze.'' It should have corrected the record once it knew that the media reports were untrue, he said.
Jackaroo
30-10-2009, 23:53
Navy credibility in the balance as three deny sex ledger claim
Andrew Bolt From: Herald Sun October 23, 2009
IT was May 9, in Singapore, and three sailors were being marched off HMAS Success, carrying what possessions they'd scrambled together.
One was Chief Petty Officer Jason Thomas, a family man and holder of several commendations from the Navy for his leadership and "devotion to duty".
Why he and the two petty officers with him were now being thrown off their ship, after a cursory "equity and diversity health check", was a mystery to him, and a savage humiliation.
The officers herding them off were yelling at the crew to "clear the passageways and do not look at this person". Their captain later said "a rotten core" had been "removed".
Thomas was left in Singapore without a bed or support, and the other two were whisked off to the airport.
Even worse was to follow, in an extraordinary saga that shows how some allegations are too politically loaded now for even sensible people to question, let alone laugh off.
For weeks the Navy would not tell the men their alleged crimes. But in July, and to the trio's astonishment, Channel 7, clearly briefed by a Navy source, announced they'd run a "sex ledger".
The allegation ran around the world. It was claimed the men had put a price on the head of every female sailor on board the Success - extra for lesbians and officers - with the money paid out to any man who could bed them.
The Navy, asked to comment, refused to confirm or deny the allegation, but gave the media all that was needed to assume the story was spot on.
It told Channel 7, for instance: "The matter concerning sailors who were returned to Australia from HMAS Success in May 2009 remains under investigation, so the veracity of any allegations has yet to be confirmed ...
"Navy has a stringent equity and diversity policy that aims to support Navy people and demands a
working environment free from unacceptable behaviour."
Prime Minister Kevin Rudd then bought into the "scandal", saying these "alleged behaviours" were "disturbing".
His deputy, Julia Gillard, said she feared such alleged behaviour would stop women joining the Navy.
But here's the bizarre thing.
It's not just that the three men deny there was any "sex ledger", and that no proof of one has ever been produced.
Nor is it just that the closest the Navy could come to backing up the "sex ledger" story with, say, Thomas, was to warn him in July it might criticise him for allegedly joking to a female colleague and friend in a taxi in Sydney last March that if she didn't do the right thing he'd "put a bounty out on your head, then the boys won't leave you alone".
Nor does the circus end with Thomas producing records to show he wasn't in Sydney at that time, anyway.
No, what caps it all off is that when grilled in a Senate estimates hearing this week by Opposition defence spokesman David Johnson, senior Navy officers said the Navy had never suggested the sailors ran a competition with a "sex ledger", and that the claim had been made by the media and was not part of the current investigation.
So why hadn't the Navy, when asked about this fabled ledger in July, immediately cleared the sailors of this stain on their reputation? Why hadn't it spared Rudd and Gillard from commenting on something that didn't actually exist, and from commenting to the detriment of three innocent men?
W’ere told, five months after their humiliating eviction, that the men are still being investigated.
This now smacks of finding a crime to fit the punishment. Thomas, for instance, is warned he may face adverse findings for not telling a blind drunk and abusive female sailor in a bar in Qingdao that she should "consider making an equity and diversity complaint" after she lurched over and claimed some other drunken sailor she'd fronted had called her a "Lebanese loose lady".
Never mind that the woman later apologised to Thomas for her behaviour, and seemed not to want to take the matter further. Never mind that Thomas had other things on his mind that night, like trying to stop fights between sailors and bouncers, and organising cabs to take crew, including another drunk woman, back to the ship.
The Navy's five other "proposed findings" against Thomas seem both as trivial and tenuous, and I'm not surprised he claims he's the victim of a vendetta by a former shipmate and friend he'd warned wasn't fitting in.
Were Thomas's attempts to keep harmony in the always-charged atmosphere of a ship, especially one with a mixed crew, always rigidly by the book and perfect?
I don't know, although I doubt any of us could escape criticism from people so determined to find fault.
But has he deserved this terrible humiliation? Absolutely not.
astraltrader
31-10-2009, 00:42
What an awful tale that brings nothing but disrepute to the RAN.
These three men should be cleared and apologised to at once unless something of substance is produced PDQ!
I agree with you and the others Terry....How terrible and humiliating for these men to have such a character assassination (and how terrible of the media to make it into headline news around the world without first being absolutely sure of the facts.)
Bee
p.s. If it were found to be true...shouldn't all parties be punished....women included - for wouldn't the Navy be considered their place of work. If this kind of thing were going on, that would destroy the trust of the loved ones left behind and everyone would be cast under a shadow...to the R.A.N.'s detriment.
Once again the media, anyones media, have got it all wrong and have 'printed' a story which is a total fabrication, all in the holy grail of promoting 'sales'. Regretably it isn't the first such story and even more regretably it won't be the last. For the poor people involved it will stay with them - they will be marked as 'the one(s)'.
It wouldn't have happened in Kook's days!!
Mik
fearless_rs
31-10-2009, 17:06
I cant help wondering if our Australian friends are making heavy weather of this incident. The bottom line is the age old natural thing that happens when male and female are put together. Just because there is a No touching Rule does not mean it wont happen. Onboard Fearless, if we didnt see it, what could you do? On a big ship, with lots of places to hide, where there is a will? What could have, and should have been kept onboard Success is now a world story without any obvious conclusion and the reputation of the RAN is now dmaged.
John Odom
31-10-2009, 17:16
I hope, that if solid evidence of wrongful acts by the accused is not forthcoming, that Australian law will permit the injured men to sue the """"" off of the officials who have so abused their powers.
John O'Callaghan
16-11-2009, 10:01
Folks! what we have here is an example of a naval system that has become so PC and fearful of telling the Government bad news that Senior Officers in the New Generation Navy either knee jerk or freeze up at the hint of a scandal. The children overboard incident of a few years ago where politicians sprouted outright lies whilst the Brass weren't game to say a word to refute the lies to protect the Navy's reputation is an example.They want to project the illusion of modern sailors as being warrior monks(or nuns) without too much emphasis on the warrior(it might upset people you know). I'm not under the illusion that the old days were perfect with sailors often being lewd,brewed and tattooed but at least when someone stepped over the mark there was someone able to take swift action and not turn it into a Royal Commission.
Cheers John O'C.
Dave Hutson
16-11-2009, 12:01
Remember the Journalists Prayer folks.
Never ever let the truth get in the way of a story ... no matter who it hurts ... it sells papers ... and that is our business.
No apology will be made by them , but the RAN will rise above it , like we always have to when the gutter press spout their poison .
Dave H
John O'Callaghan
16-11-2009, 17:28
Hi Dave H. The press have a role to play in these scenarios and I wish they would be more honest and less sensational. Unfortunately Politicians will always use a situation to their political advantage and damn the truth. However the navy Brass need to stand up for the service and honour they are very free to talk about and the men and women they command and expect to follow them into the valley. Even if it means being prepared to go out there and say the press/politician is wrong or doesn't know what they are talking about .they espouse it within the service and are prepared to be brutally frank to the accused but it doesn't translate to outside The problem is not just in the RAN but is very widespread when one looks at how recent world events have been handled.
Cheers John O'C
Dave Hutson
16-11-2009, 18:48
Well said mate , I agree with every word , never trust a Politico and always read between the lines.
Dave H
Don Boyer
16-11-2009, 23:18
Truly a mess when you see good sailors under the gun because of media hysteria and the (usual) refusal of those on high to live up to the stars they wear on their shoulders. Hope you keep this thread current.
The US Navy has been integrating women into at-sea billets for years now. We had our "Tailhook" scandel, we've had bad scenarios regarding rapes, and we have a continual problem with sending young girls to sea with young men and having them come back pregnant. Who would ever have guessed things like that could happen?
Slowly but surely, it seems to be working out. Educating men to not be such stupid, dull twits around women seems to be the biggest problem --stopping the silly harassment and innuendos and the like so that the work environment can be a level playing field and women can be more comfortable in their jobs. I'm sure it's not easy, and I'm sure the next FOX NEWS impartial and unbiased news story on the next military sex scandel will hit any day now.
I have heard that the final arrangements are in place to integrate women aboard an American nuclear submarine -- the absolute last bastion of the all-male crew. This will probably be the arena for the next mess that will make headlines and be resolved simply because over time the issues seem to settle themselves, given fair policies in place and room to complain if they are not.
I find the fact that men and women aboard ships often don't quite work out to best advantage to be rather minor (barring abuse, of course) in the big scheme of things. And I find things like Congress or other political entities drawing conclusions to be absurd while they have their hand on some page boys privates...or are out snorting coke and cutting deals with lobbyists...or getting re-elected by money rather than merit...the list is endless.
Gone Asiatic
17-11-2009, 08:13
As a matter of interest, what is an "equity and diversity health check"?
The Inquisition:eek:
ex success stoker
12-04-2010, 23:49
As a matter of interest, what is an "equity and diversity health check"?
Equity and Diversity (E&D) is a term used to promote Equity and Diversity within the workplace. A person shall not be ill treated due to their gender, sexual preferance, race or religion. basically designed a healthy workplace for all people.
ex success stoker
13-04-2010, 00:02
Hi gentlemen
This story just keeps going and going... Now as this was my ship before i discharged i know all the people involved, especially the gentlemen being investigated. There is much more to the story (or should I say much less) than what has been released and what has been released has been here say.
Now the senate inquiry is currently taking place as I type and there have been some surprise statements. I will not go into the nitty gritty of it but lets just say this has been the balls up of all balls ups with the way the RAN has handled this from the very beginning. All these allegations are bottomless and in the real world they would have not made it this far in investigations.
This strikes a raw nerve with me because its not just the men being investigated but its the whole engineering dept past and present they are feeling the brunt of this. As you can imagine your ship mates especially those in your department are like your brothers (and sisters) and when they hurt you hurt! I have a great pride for HMAS Success and damn proud to of served on her.
There have been statements given during the current inquiry for example from a senior officer (2nd) that there is an excessive drinking culture onboard HMAS Success and that is total bollocks!! I know for a fact that she was one of the biggest ashore runners during port visits who frequently consumed high amounts of alcohol. Now personally i have no issue with this as you have to let your hair down but you know what they say, 'People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".
This all started from the CO of the ship in his handling of the situation with was very poor and unprofessional to say the least. The ongoing treatment of the men who were booted from the ship to the point of when they were walking off the gangway the entire ship staff who were in the vicinity were ordered not to look at the men as they walked from their mess and off the ship. Now how would that make you feel?
There is so much I have to say about this and 1 year on I feel just as disgusted at these boys treatment and they are good mates of mine.
That’s all for now I have had my rant.
Thanks for reading
Its really a shame to bet on something like this!!! this man should be punished!
There are so many cool things to bet on, there is really no need to bet on sex just to high.. thats awful! They should just bet on sports (http://www.bestbetting.ca/) and everything is allright..
??? Punished for what - the case has yet to be proved.
Teuchter
21-01-2011, 08:52
Its really a shame to bet on something like this!!! this man should be punished!
There are so many cool things to bet on, there is really no need to bet on sex just to high.. that's awful! They should just bet on sports (http://www.bestbetting.ca/) and everything is allright..
I note this is your first post Braindy - are you for real or some sort of recruiting agent for BEST BETTING in which case Braindead might be a more fitting "handle"
If you are genuine I apologise for my humour (or lack of it as you may feel) in advance however to those of us who served in the Navy (any Navy) this particular issue is one so unjust that perhaps it should not be ridiculed especially by a newcomer to the forum who has not introduced himself nor filled in any details in his "joining routine"
braindy - I wish you better times on the forum than your initial posting has invited, and hopefully you wont be put off by the responses you'll be getting.
The thing is, this is not a new story and it has already caused an unbelievable amount of official time and effort to sort out the mess (not to mention the heaps of bad publicity).
The real scandal is that proper service proceedures were not followed in the first place. However, after a long and painful Commission of Inquiry, the allegations of unprofessional behaviour against the 3 men involved remain unsubstantiated. Furthemore, the sailors removal from the ship and their subsequent treatment was found to be flawed and biased with charges of 'inappropriate interference' now under legal investigation.
Mac Hendry
21-01-2011, 10:45
Its really a shame to bet on something like this!!! this man should be punished!
There are so many cool things to bet on, there is really no need to bet on sex just to high.. thats awful! They should just bet on sports (http://www.bestbetting.ca/) and everything is allright..
Maybe "braindy" is short for braindead. When was innocent until proved guilty dropped ?
alanbenn
21-01-2011, 13:21
I don't think this is a genuine post, it looks like a betting scammer that has got through the net by posing as a genuine member.
The fact that he has underlined bet on sports......which links to a betting website is a bit of a clue.
Please don't follow the link as he probably gets money from you doing so.
I'm sure KC will look into this and delete the relevant posts.
Regards
Alan
Teuchter
21-01-2011, 13:58
That's what I figured Alan!
Then I was the only gullable one rising to the bait.
Fortunately I didn't open the link.
John O'Callaghan
22-01-2011, 08:03
Back to the original subject.How do these poor b........ds recover reputation and career after this fiasco.
Cheers John O'C.
TV News in Oz, 11am 25 Jan, says results of the inquiry into the HMAS Success
Sex Scandal will be released in a few weeks.
Cheers
Bruce
As a former Success Sailor and knowing two of the accused, I thought it pertinent to post the attached (UNCLASS) Signal from the Boss...
Seems as though that
1. This issue is not going away,
2. That NGN has failed in this instance,
3. That the principles of "natural justice" may not be applied, and
3. Changes are a comin' - one way or the other
Cheers
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