The Pipes

[ivorthediver]

Well this is progressing along nicely ..........We now know all about WATCH'S
and we have now had the SHIPS BELLS explained to us............................
PAY ATTENTION YOU AT THE BACK......

Now the PIPES

Assuming that the Bosun's pipes and the "pipes" are the same.....yes I know that you should never assume anything ! [As an American friend used to say to me" never assume anything ...if you do you will make an Ass of you and me"

Very true words.. as I learnt to my cost!

How and when are they used,
Is there a set order of notes ,
Do they vary in pitch .. or..length
Are they identified by their "melody"
or
Is there a page in the Seaman's Manual that covers it ....if so can I see a copy of it please Derick :confused:

[Jan Steer]

Yes Ivor there is a page in the seaman's manual that covers it. In the days before PA systems in ships the pipes made on a bos'ns call were a quick and accurate way of communicating information to the ship's company. I think that they were retained in the fleet after the advent of PA systems mainly to maintain tradition. We all learned them in training and onboard ship you heard the different pipes daily so the sounds and the messages they conveyed were quickly soaked up and remembered. "Call the hands" and "pipe down" and everyone's eagerly awaited, "up spirits" followed shortly after by "hands to dinner" I'm sure are remembered by all ex-matelots. The "still" and the "carry on" were another two heard regularly. Batstiger Bob tells us that he was quartermaster often so I'm sure that he can give you far more info than I can. I only used a bosn's call when as a sparker on a sweeper in a naval port I took my turn as QM along with most other crew members. In sailing ship days it was an offence I believe to whistle onboard as quite apart from the fact that it might interfere with pipes being made, it was said that the whistler was whistling up an ill wind and sailors are a superstitious lot.
Shanty singing on warships was also frowned upon as again pipes might not be heard. Hope this is helpful

best wishes
Jan

[qprdave]

For a start, Ivor. It is not a Bosun's pipe it's a Bosun's call. You make pipes with a call. With that sorted out.

I have only come across and used a few pipes

Call the Hands

Pipe Down

Still

General call

Pipe the side

There are three "Notes" High, Low and Trill. The trill is made as if you are rolling your Rs, Something I have never been able to do.

Call the hands was a mixture of high and low

Pipe down (Go to sleep) Was two short high notes and a trill from high to low

Still. Used when anyone on the upperdeck is required to stand to attention. i.e. Colours and sunset, Saluting another warship as it passes.

General Call. when using the main broadcast it is used to call attention that a pipe is about to be made. It is a mixture of high and low something like Toowit toowoo

Piping the side. Used to salute certain people when arriving on board. Royalty, Admirals and Captains of seagoing ships. This means that Lt Blogs, Captain of a minesweeper is entitled to piping the side. Captain Smith of HMS Dryad is not.

I hope that this has explained it a bit

[Batstiger]

Did you never eat in the Navy? What about "Hands to Dinner"?

Bob.

[qprdave]

Bob. Can't remember ever having and using a special "Hands to dinner" pipe.

I am surprised that I can remember this much!!!!!!

[ivorthediver]

Thank you Jan that is most helpful and illuminating

[ivorthediver]

For a start, Ivor. It is not a Bosun's pipe it's a Bosun's call. You make pipes with a call. With that sorted out.

I have only come across and used a few pipes

Call the Hands

Pipe Down

Still

General call

Pipe the side

There are three "Notes" High, Low and Trill. The trill is made as if you are rolling your Rs, Something I have never been able to do.

Call the hands was a mixture of high and low

Pipe down (Go to sleep) Was two short high notes and a trill from high to low

Still. Used when anyone on the upperdeck is required to stand to attention. i.e. Colours and sunset, Saluting another warship as it passes.

General Call. when using the main broadcast it is used to call attention that a pipe is about to be made. It is a mixture of high and low something like Toowit toowoo

Piping the side. Used to salute certain people when arriving on board. Royalty, Admirals and Captains of seagoing ships. This means that Lt Blogs, Captain of a minesweeper is entitled to piping the side. Captain Smith of HMS Dryad is not.

I hope that this has explained it a bit

Much obliged Dave , I realise its a difficult subject to illustrate...and I knew you would have a crack at it ...so thank you

If I send you a blank cd do you think you could whistle up a few for me ?
You have told me you have still got your pipes[ Bosun's calls] on a white lanyard have you not ?

Very grateful for the type of " Call's" and for when they are used , and the only one I would recognise from seeing to many War films would be the "Piping the Side" one LOW ......High......descending to low again..

Fascinating to hear and must take a lot of practice to get right..many thanks

[Batstiger]

Bob. Can't remember ever having and using a special "Hands to dinner" pipe.

I am surprised that I can remember this much!!!!!!


Hands to dinner went like this:-

Pipe the side-Pipe the side- Pipe the side finishing with a waver- Pipe down.

There might have been two pips between the first and second Pipe the side.

Or something like that, hope you can understand it.

Bob.

[qprdave]

Yes I remember it now. Just needed a little kick up the backside.

Thanks Bob

[ivorthediver]

Derick ....Where's your manual please

[ivorthediver]

OK its been a busy day and I have just heard three bells on the first watch
so I am off to my pit with my newly polished crossed spanners, by the way Chiefy has laid a new axminster in my cabin with a lovely motif of two crossed spanners beneath a bronze propeller on a dark blue background.

Must get L.S. Gouldsberg to run me up some new matching curtains for me.
[Well rank must have some privileges I'm told]

Good grief !.... some one has fitted me a Bidet in my cabin....thats handy my steward can wash my socks now..

[qprdave]

No, I'm afraid that I haven't got a call. I was only given one when I was Quartermaster/Bosun's Mate. Had to give it back when job changes came around.

If I remember rightly. When I was at Ganges the Junior who came top of the class was presented with one. I think that it was engraved, Unfortunately never came top of the class.

I first learnt how to use a Busun's call when I was in the Sea Cadets

[John Odom]

This site has recordings of USN bosun's pipes:

http://www.npc.navy.mil/CommandSupport/NavyMusic/AUDIO.htm

There are other nautical recordings there too, authorized for USN ceremonial use.

There are calls for sale on ebay.

[Batstiger]

Start practising, you will all be tested before "Pipe down" tomorrow.

http://www.btinternet.com/~FOURTHGILL.SEASCOUTS/bocallpic.htm

Bob, Chief Bosun's mate.

[Derek Dicker]

I will say this only once, todays lesson comes from Manual of Seamanship 1951.

Piping.

[ivorthediver]

I will say this only once, todays lesson comes from Manual of Seamanship 1951.

Piping.


Well done Derek, what took you so long ?

I knew you would find it and "answer the call"

Can you still get copies of the "Manual of Seamanship" per chance ?

not a modern copy I hasten to add !

[ivorthediver]

Start practising, you will all be tested before "Pipe down" tomorrow.

http://www.btinternet.com/~FOURTHGILL.SEASCOUTS/bocallpic.htm (http://www.btinternet.com/%7EFOURTHGILL.SEASCOUTS/bocallpic.htm)

Bob, Chief Bosun's mate.

Hi Bob ,
You have stirred a memory there ...my dear father was always telling me to "pipe down" as a lad but never realised it was a Naval term.

Live and Learn eh

Regards Ivor

[Francis Stanley]

I'm going to hate myself for addmiting this but :o ......At Ganges I was.. a... er... well .......a call boy! :p

IT JUST MEANT THAT YOU HAD TO DO THE CALLS FOR YOUR DIVISION WHEN THEY WERE THE DUTY ONE, OK!!

Basically you had to take a test on all the calls then when your division was duty you did call the hands, Out pipes, hands to dinner and Pipe down.

[ivorthediver]

I'm going to hate myself for addmiting this but :o ......At Ganges I was.. a... er... well .......a call boy! :p

IT JUST MEANT THAT YOU HAD TO DO THE CALLS FOR YOUR DIVISION WHEN THEY WERE THE DUTY ONE, OK!!

Basically you had to take a test on all the calls then when your division was duty you did call the hands, Out pipes, hands to dinner and Pipe down.

Full marks for your bravery ,and to Sailors to !!! I take my hat off to you ...but thats all. :eek:

[qprdave]

I'm glad that I didn't have to admit that I was a errrr....Call Boy at Ganges. I couldn't pass the test as I couldn't do the trill.

[Derek Dicker]

Ahoy there Ivor

have checked Ebay for seamanship manuals, quite a few for sale of the 1951 edition

regards
Derek

[ivorthediver]

Ahoy there Ivor

have checked Ebay for seamanship manuals, quite a few for sale of the 1951 edition

regards
Derek

Thanks Derek I will follow that up .....

Kind Regards Ivor

[Batstiger]

There are also two Bosun's call on sale if you are interested Ivor!

Bob.

[Blaydon]

I have the Manuals volume 1 from 1979 and 2 from 1981, other than being tidied up the content on pipes is identical.

[harry.gibbon]

Yet another good thread I've been following; but .. Bloomin heck!!! what have you all done cohorts? :eek:

My guess is that by putting all this info (and the wherewithall of obtaining a Bosuns' call) in the direction of Ivorthediver, we will all be given 'hands off your c...s and grab your socks' and 'pipe down' at the beginning and end of every day for ever more;):o

Little h

[Fairlead]

The best Seamanship Manual for the history and calls is the 1937 Vol 1. A large pull-out stuck to page 437. There are plenty of second hand ones about so don't pay too much for one.
I have a small collection of calls all different - Photo when I get time.
I too was a Ganges Call Boy (Even though I was a sparker!) meant you could wear a chain instead of a lanyard at divisions!

Fairlead

[ekd]

The best Seamanship Manual for the history and calls is the 1937 Vol 1. A large pull-out stuck to page 437. There are plenty of second hand ones about so don't pay too much for one.
I have a small collection of calls all different - Photo when I get time.
I too was a Ganges Call Boy (Even though I was a sparker!) meant you could wear a chain instead of a lanyard at divisions!

Fairlead

Attached is the copy of the 1937 pull out, with 22 calls depicted. It is several times bigger than the size of the manual!
But I too, as a call boy, knew how to pipe all of these.. easy when your young and very keen!

[whalerman]

Having been a quartermaster on two of the ships I served on, the Bosuns Pipe was attached to a silver chain. I was also a call boy at HMS Ganges and was presented with an engraved Pipe and chain which you could wear instead of a lanyard when in Number 2 or 1 Dress uniform.

[Mac Hendry]

Still got my call with chain attached from when I was B.M. in the Hecla. The Blake carried two Marine buglers so we had bugle calls instead of pipes. I think they were the last sea-going buglers in the Royal Navy. This was 1971.

[Ednamay]

My father had two pipes, one plain and very worn, obviously it had been in everyday use, with a white lanyard, and another much brighter, shinier, engraved with tendrils, hanging on a chain, obviously for ceremonial occasions. Unfortunately they were lost when he moved house.

Edna

[alanandbren]

Still got my call with chain attached from when I was B.M. in the Hecla. The Blake carried two Marine buglers so we had bugle calls instead of pipes. I think they were the last sea-going buglers in the Royal Navy. This was 1971.

Still have mine as well Mac,
Alan

[mustang ali]

We get pipes here, or at least I think they're pipes, someone usually says salute colours at about 9am

Is it pipes or am I just crazy?

[Mitch Hinde]

Hi All

QM at Mercury had it easy, all the pipes/bugle calls were on a record in the OOWs cabin by the Main House.

Mitch Hinde

[Tony Fitt]

For a start, Ivor. It is not a Bosun's pipe it's a Bosun's call. You make pipes with a call. With that sorted out.

I have only come across and used a few pipes

Call the Hands

Pipe Down

Still

General call

Pipe the side

There are three "Notes" High, Low and Trill. The trill is made as if you are rolling your Rs, Something I have never been able to do.

Call the hands was a mixture of high and low

Pipe down (Go to sleep) Was two short high notes and a trill from high to low

Still. Used when anyone on the upperdeck is required to stand to attention. i.e. Colours and sunset, Saluting another warship as it passes.

General Call. when using the main broadcast it is used to call attention that a pipe is about to be made. It is a mixture of high and low something like Toowit toowoo

Piping the side. Used to salute certain people when arriving on board. Royalty, Admirals and Captains of seagoing ships. This means that Lt Blogs, Captain of a minesweeper is entitled to piping the side. Captain Smith of HMS Dryad is not.

I hope that this has explained it a bit

You forgot the most important pipe - Hands to dinner followed by "Up Spirits" The most important pipe of the day!!!!!!

[Scurs]

Like our good friend QprDave.......the trill was something I never COULD do, for I too found it impossible to "roll my R's".
Very embarrassing when I was QM having to get the Bosun's Mate to pipe Hands to Dinner, or Pipe Down..........was all right as long as call didn't require the trill.! :o

Last time I used one, was 1992 (24 years after leaving RN), when "crewing" HMS WARRIOR and piped "Queen Victoria" onboard - problem was I "ran out of puff" half way through piping the side, so it WAS a rather shortened version! :D

[mustang ali]

so is it pipes I hear at 9am or just some weirdo with a whistle

[Francis Stanley]

so is it pipes I hear at 9am or just some weirdo with a whistle

Ali

During the winter the flag is hoisted at 9 AM ( 8AM in the Summer) normally the still is piped, once the flag is up the carry on is piped and the RN is switched on for another day :)
The flag is brought down again at sunset in the winter and in the summer once sunset is after 9 pm it becomes evening colours at 9 PM.

[mustang ali]

cheers francis, that clears that up

[harry.gibbon]

or just some weirdo with a whistle

Tut tut ... 'weirdo' ... used to describe a crew member on one of HM Ships:mad: and you a self professed devotee of the Royal Navy:eek:

Retract or withdraw my good man:(

Little h

[mustang ali]

Harry,

I shall withdraw my statement (if i knew how)

[kenharrow]

I have two boatswains calls, one which was given to me as a small boy 'to play with' by my father- he was at that time (1949-52) Cox'n of Bleasdale.
The other was issued when I was PO of the towing crew (DILSUP) to pipe Lord Louis Mountbatten onboard HMS Cavalier when she was towed from Portsmouth to Southampton on Trafalgar day 1978, that was the only time that pipe was used!!

[mustang ali]

i don't get these naval terms, boatswains, cox'n, etc.

[ekd]

I was watching a TV programme tonight called "Pirate Patrol". A RAN vessel in the gulf of Aden.

A lady sailor was piping the 'still' during evening rounds.

What a disgrace!

She had her thumb and forefinger around the call in the correct position, but the three free fingers straight up in the air.

It was just the low note..... But she was blowing hard!:eek:

Many a call boy would have cringed to think they could have got away with that! :(

Who teaches these people the pipes these days?:D

I felt standards are a bit more laxed! If you're gonna do it, do it properly, I would have thought:D

[John O'Callaghan]

Hi ekd! In the modern Navies the Bosuns Calls are all digital therefore there is no need to move the fingers. This has been brought about by workplace health and safety concerns for operator injury to the carpal tunnel. Also the pitch has been lowered to avoid hearing injuries, particularly to ships dogs. The SPCA threatened their Lordships with animal cruelty action if the old traditions were continued.
Cheers John O'C.

[ceylon220]

When based at LOCHINVAR and in married quarters at Rosyth in 1960,I had to catch the MFV to cross the water to the base each morning(except when on duty watch),one morning when landing on the jetty I was met by the 1st Lt and told to report to the quarter deck, this I did(never refused orders in those days) and was handed a Bosuns pipe, the duty LS was adrift for colours and I was stand in----has anyone ever heard of a LM(E) doing colour duties let alone blowing a Bosuns whistle--anyway I played a note when the ensign was hauled up and another note when it reached the top, must have done something right as the 1st Lt said " Well done Leading hand", thank goodness I was never asked again,cannot remember if when in training at RALEIGH if Stoker took part in flag duties,never heard of one using the Bosuns pipe/whistle----there is always a first ---did I make history that day??????????:D

[ceylon220]

Scurs-Ray if my memory serves me right did`t the seamans mess deck have a parrot aboard the CEYLON which would mimic the "pipes" or was that another ship-----quite a lot of Cockatoos were liberated around the Med on our way home!

[Scurs]

Dave.........yes, spot on mate. It was the "Top Part of ship" messdeck, above ours, just forr'ard of Canteen flat. The parrot was an "African Grey" and I think the owner/handler was a Maltese lad, Able-Seaman Frankalanza (whom I also served with in 1962-63 in SURPRISE).

Anyway, said parrot shouldn't have been able to fly as it's wings had been clipped......."shouldn't"! Frankie brought the bird up onto foc'sle one day , bird took off.....cleared guardrail with a few inches to spare, and "splashed down" a few hundred yards further on. The seaboat got called away to rescue the bird......it was brought back onboard, dripping, bedraggled, and looking totally fed up....none the worse for the ducking. I wonder what happened to it? :confused:

[ekd]

Hi ekd! In the modern Navies the Bosuns Calls are all digital therefore there is no need to move the fingers. This has been brought about by workplace health and safety concerns for operator injury to the carpal tunnel. Also the pitch has been lowered to avoid hearing injuries, particularly to ships dogs. The SPCA threatened their Lordships with animal cruelty action if the old traditions were continued.
Cheers John O'C.

Thanks John,............. I knew there was something odd about it.;)

Even the Captain looked a bit digital, not like the old analogue ones we had, who could dish out 14 days No. 9's!

Maybe they should all stay at home, and fight the wars/pirates from their own settees, with one of those 'fingers and thumb operated handsets', just to make life a bit more easy!; and save a few bob!:D

[limpet44]

Remember as a newly rated Mickey Mouse Killick 1965 RNB,it went like this..Report to MAA, "oh shit, not already?" "Yes Master??" ""got a job for you lad" " Yes master" ""Want you Killick in charge of the piping party" "Yes Master,which piping party??" "Well the piping party at the funeral"" " Right Master,, who's funeral??" "" Winston Churchills"" " But he's not dead yet Master" " No but he soon will be," " Right Master"
Absolute freezing day,Tower Bridge Pier .. Pipe the side had to be good, stood about six feet in front of us was Mountbatten.

[ekd]

Remember as a newly rated Mickey Mouse Killick 1965 RNB,it went like this..Report to MAA, "oh shit, not already?" "Yes Master??" ""got a job for you lad" " Yes master" ""Want you Killick in charge of the piping party" "Yes Master,which piping party??" "Well the piping party at the funeral"" " Right Master,, who's funeral??" "" Winston Churchills"" " But he's not dead yet Master" " No but he soon will be," " Right Master"
Absolute freezing day,Tower Bridge Pier .. Pipe the side had to be good, stood about six feet in front of us was Mountbatten.

Brilliant, Limpet! :)

[Scurs]

Limpet..........your lucky, stop dripping! I spent days marching round and round Whale Island Parade Ground, lugging a gun carriage prior to Churchill's funeral.! Didn't do the actual funeral as PTO (Parade Training Officer.....aka "Crazy Horse") decided that anyone with a beard "spoilt the uniformity". :)

[limpet44]

SHAVE OFF!!! what a.... pity.

[Scurs]

Limpet.........my sentiments entirely! :D

Btw......I see we are "Old Ships", both trod the decks of "CHI" (Chichester), in my case 1967-68. :)

[John O'Callaghan]

Ekd! Having paid for my (detected) crimes with No9s and various other numbers. Generally called 'Chooks' in the RAN. I can assure you that many Captains,digital or analogue came from the same basic model.
Cheers John O'C.

[limpet44]

Not Once but twice Scurs. I did my basic ping bosuns sea training on Keppel in 1961. Portland. I guess when you were on the Chi, you were Hong Kong guardship.??
Those were the days, had skin like the lee side of a sun kissed peach.:cool:

[Scurs]

Limpet......was certainly in KEPPEL when you did your course (served in her 1960-62). :) Can't remember what Mess number, but was in the mess opposite Sick Bay and down hatch!

CHICHESTER, in 1967-68 was Londonderry Squadron (though we only went there once, maybe twice). Joined her September 1967 in Pompey, left her in Chatham October 1968. I was GOW or "Routine Office Ghost".......nice quite number, lived, worked and slept in Office opposite after PO's Mess, next to Chief Stokers grot.

[limpet44]

:eek:Was on the Londonderry in Londonderry 1963, remember the winter?? We were frozen alongside on the Foyle.this was before the troubles, but we were armed with a WW11 .38 and six rounds on the gangway as QM. the six rounds were wrapped up in maskers in our great coat pocket, if the ship came under attack, we had to contact the OOW for permission to unwrap the BULLETS to return fire. yea right on.

[Scurs]

Winter of 63?..........nope was quite happy RA at HMS PHOENICIA (Manoel Island, Malta) at the time! :D