View Full Version : Emergency Control Position.
ivorthediver
06-05-2009, 18:18
Forgive my ignorance lads , but do modern or indeed post war RN ships still have Emergency Control positions, as I have had some difficulty in locating them in some of the ships photographs displayed
Regards Ivor
Forgive my ignorance lads , but do modern or indeed post war RN ships still have Emergency Control positions, as I have had some difficulty in locating them in some of the ships photographs displayed
Regards Ivor
I remember that, I think that it was the Unwanted that had an Emergency Conning Position. I remember that the 1st Lt. used to man it, when required. I seem to remember that it was used when we were doing a TOWEX. There was no wheel. Just a Compass and voice communications.
ivorthediver
06-05-2009, 20:51
Thanks David,
But is it still a section used on RN Ships ?
tonclass
06-05-2009, 21:09
All the 'Ton's had their emergency con in the tiller flat under ther sweepdeck.
Ton
I am sure that the tiller flat was the emergency steering position. Not the Emergency Conning position. But I have no experience of Minesweepers. I would have thought that all ships would have an E.C.P. where the Officer there can see everything as they would from the bridge and bridge wings.
But is it still a section used on RN Ships ?
Having left the navy 31 years ago, I have no experience of modern warships.
I would say that there must be a E.C.P. somewhere. It might not be a platform on the upper deck. It might be in the operations room or somewhere within the Citadel.
Now that may contradict what I have just written. There are times when the ship is theoretically "conned" from the operations room. A blind entrance or exit to a harbour for instance. and the ship is conned by R.A.D.A.R.
Quite often at Portland, there was a "Blind Exit" exercise when we (S.O.N.A.R.) closed up and looked for the "hole" in the breakwater and they would steer the ship by S.O.N.A.R.
If the ship had "ahead throwing" A/S weapons i.e. Hedgehog, Squid and depth charges the Helmsman would have a A.S.D.I.C. Repeater in front of him. When a submarine contact was confirmed the order would be given to "Steer by A.S.D.I.C." this would make sure that the ship was always heading for the target.
I think-------------long time ago --
On a destroyer the emergency conning position was midships on the upper deck --with compass and communications to the emergency steering position
in the tiller flat .Emergency conning was if the ships bridge had been destroyed.
On Hermes the PSP[primary steering position] was in a small compartment on 6 deck midships and entry gained via a trunking from 3 deck .Conning orders were from anyone with communication to the PSP.As mentioned it wasn't always orders from the bridge.
Emergency --same again --tiller flat and communication required.
Fred
This was where the E.C.P. was on the Unwanted
ivorthediver
07-05-2009, 05:00
Thank you lads,
On the Manxman it was the forward section of the aft superstructure , and as far as I am aware it had most basic items ie voice pipes, compass,steerage,
in case the forward bridge was taken out ......but I may be wrong here .
Not sure if she had a "Citadel" ops room...but I am sure "Bob" would know
that .
As I said earlier its not always obvious where it is.....interesting points raised by Dave though in so much as various methods of entering port ...Radar etc
negates the need for a pilot when entering a foreign port..? :confused:
tim lewin
07-05-2009, 05:25
Here is a picture of Belfast's emergency steering position, it is exactly above the rudder, below the middle of the quarterdeck. And a picture of Corunna's emergency steering position which was aft on the STAAG deck, all ships could also be conned, steered, directly from the rudder head in extermis but someone had to tell the poor chaps in the tiller falt which way!
tim lewin
07-05-2009, 05:34
I should add for those that missed the previous separate posts that the wheel shown in the Corunna pic (nearest camera in this one) is actually the same wheel shown in the Belfast pic; the Port-side one. When Corunna went the way of all ships (nearly) my father got the wheel as a memory. He had it converted to a coffee table. After he died I got the wheel but when through my friendship with the director of HMSB who told me that both his emergency steering wheels had been liberated before Belfast became a museum, i presented him with mine. The other, Stbd side wheel, came from an auction. I know that this wheel is the emergency wheel as the main wheel has a long "king-spoke", Corunna was a heavy ship to steer so my father proposed that the chippy lengthen the centre spoke, the one with the brass ferrule, thus when he felt inspired to make a 30 degree turn the QM could swing the longer spoke twice as fast and spill even more tea, dinners, etc of the watch below.
tonclass
07-05-2009, 11:58
Dave, you are right I was getting the two mixed up:(:confused:
I would expect that the Manxman did have a Citadel.
For those who don't know what the Citadel is:-
The Citadel is the part of ship (Normally the central part) that contains all the vital organs to run and fight the ship. i.e. Engine room, Boiler room, opps room, SCR. This area can be closed down and the air pressure is raised slightly to keep gas, radio active fallout from entering the Citadel. Entry and exit is strictly controlled by using one perhaps two doors that can be used as an airlock. If someone has to enter the Citadel from outside, he has to go through the airlock that leads to showers. He then has to strip off and shower. The decontam team will then check for any decontamination. If he is cleared he then dresses in clean clothes an then continues into the Citadel.
The bridge is not in the Citadel and the ship is controlled from the opps room. via the bridge of by direct link to the wheelhouse.
The citadel remains "closed down" until the ship has passed the danger area. The ship is then washed down using built in spray nozzles in the deck. When this is complete a "Monitor" team will be sent out and the whole ship is checked and manually hose down any "hot spots". Only when this has been carried out and the ship has been declared clean, the Citadel is opened up and back to normal routine.
Fairlead
07-05-2009, 13:20
Back to the orignal question as to ECPs in todays ships - think about it, why build a facility, fit and wire it when it is never likely to be used. Technology in navigation and radio equipment now means that you can, using a handheld GPS and a personal radio con a ship in an emergency from 'anywhere'.
I am sure there is still a manual steering method in the tiller flat - but that is something different.
FLOAT - FIGHT - MOVE - bring back memories?
Fairlead
Looking at the Belfast's E.S.P. It certainly looks a lot cleaner and tidier than the ones that I have been in. They have been dank and smelly places. What with the smell of hydraulic fluid that abounds and the equipment that the Seaman and engineering Dept. such as rope (Jenny of Hong Kong fame comes to mind!!!!) and grease etc. doesn't make it a pleasant place to be (unless it is just after Captains rounds.
As for the original question that Ivor put. He did ask for modern and post war information. I probably am correct in saying that the majority of members here left the Navy 30,40,50 yrs ago. We give our knowledge about how it was then. We leave the modern Navy to those that experienced modern times. And us older ones learn from that.
ivorthediver
07-05-2009, 17:33
Looking at the Belfast's E.S.P. It certainly looks a lot cleaner and tidier than the ones that I have been in. They have been dank and smelly places. What with the smell of hydraulic fluid that abounds and the equipment that the Seaman and engineering Dept. such as rope (Jenny of Hong Kong fame comes to mind!!!!) and grease etc. doesn't make it a pleasant place to be (unless it is just after Captains rounds.
As for the original question that Ivor put. He did ask for modern and post war information. I probably am correct in saying that the majority of members here left the Navy 30,40,50 yrs ago. We give our knowledge about how it was then. We leave the modern Navy to those that experienced modern times. And us older ones learn from that.
Thank you all lads for such an informative and thorough answer,
you may ..only may ...get me to think more of you" Deckstrollers" / "Gull Perches" if you keep this up .................all kidding aside ..I am grateful for your answer's as always, and the little bits that get added to the answer as it unfolds......as these are priceless and help give a better understanding of just How Complex a RN fighting Ship ...is...was....and how the crew dove tailed to " make it happen " I would have loved to have been on one to see how it all worked...................but life had a different plan for me
Keep the answers coming lads it is fascinating reading...
In the event that a bridge was taken out was it realy as dire as the films like "Sink the Bismark" portray or worse ?
Kind Regards and my thanks Ivor
"get me to think more of you" Deckstrollers" / "Gull Perches" if you keep this up"
Hmmmmmmmmmm. Does that mean that we would have think more of Stokers?????
That is a pretty big thing to ask just for answering your questions, Ivor!!!!!!!
This could be a good time to be invited down the stokers mess at tot time!!!!!!!!!!
ivorthediver
07-05-2009, 19:16
"get me to think more of you" Deckstrollers" / "Gull Perches" if you keep this up"
Hmmmmmmmmmm. Does that mean that we would have think more of Stokers?????
That is a pretty big thing to ask just for answering your questions, Ivor!!!!!!!
This could be a good time to be invited down the stokers mess at tot time!!!!!!!!!!
Dave , How many times do I have to invite you ....you are always welcome as long as you come down in your No1's like all the other Stokers do, when not keeping your keel from the abyss..........
I have even offered you the much sought after !st decant of the Captains reserve but have yet to have the honour of your company in the Mess.....
one other point ...please don,t bring your pet Gull with you as it is bound to make a mess on the Carpet in the Stokers Mess and you know how touchy Cheify gets about his Axminster Carpet with the Gold props motif on the dark blue background ......;)
harry.gibbon
07-05-2009, 21:15
Dave , How many times do I have to invite you ....you are always welcome as long as you come down in your No1's like all the other Stokers do, when not keeping your keel from the abyss..........
I have even offered you the much sought after !st decant of the Captains reserve but have yet to have the honour of your company in the Mess.....
one other point ...please don,t bring your pet Gull with you as it is bound to make a mess on the Carpet in the Stokers Mess and you know how touchy Cheify gets about his Axminster Carpet with the Gold props motif on the dark blue background ......;)
Ivor and Dave,
As one lowly ex pale faced sparker I have observed in all your recent exchanges (magic tho they are ) that no mention of the revered 'wheel spanner' has been made.... why has this stokers 'badge of office' not reared its head or at least done a turn!!!
Little h
Little h
I wonder if Custer mentioned bows and arrows and tomahawks when in polite company????????
You didn't answer my question from a few days ago, Harry. Who was big h?????????
harry.gibbon
07-05-2009, 22:28
Little h
I wonder if Custer mentioned bows and arrows and tomahawks when in polite company????????
You didn't answer my question from a few days ago, Harry. Who was big h?????????
Dave,
a)Nice of you to consider me amongst the 'polite' ... hmmm... I am even having probs with armfuls of skinny gold ring!!! I feel a 'Morse keys and earphones' moment coming on.
b)yep twas answered in cyprus patrol thread post #36 I fink
Little h
tim lewin
08-05-2009, 04:46
The emergency steering position in Belfast is slap in the middle of the Admiral's flat, hence very tiddley. The tiller flat is down the trunking behind the wheels and not nearly so swish!
You mention the wheel spanner, indeed the "mace" of the engine room regalia. I can remember being told about a senior ERA in either Corunna or poss Urchin who enjoyed a hair of the dog, feeling the need while on duty but very absorbed by watching his clocks he send a junior rate to fetch the bottle from his locker. The lad returned not with the tot bottle but a bottle of meths. Without taking his eyes off the guages he took a massive thirst quenching draft before the effects made themselves apparent. With a great roar he dropped the bottle and began to chase the lad round the engine room with the wheel spanner with general havoc until restrained by the rest of the lads. Anyone remember this?
tim
ivorthediver
08-05-2009, 04:53
The emergency steering position in Belfast is slap in the middle of the Admiral's flat, hence very tiddley. The tiller flat is down the trunking behind the wheels and not nearly so swish!
You mention the wheel spanner, indeed the "mace" of the engine room regalia. I can remember being told about a senior ERA in either Corunna or poss Urchin who enjoyed a hair of the dog, feeling the need while on duty but very absorbed by watching his clocks he send a junior rate to fetch the bottle from his locker. The lad returned not with the tot bottle but a bottle of meths. Without taking his eyes off the guages he took a massive thirst quenching draft before the effects made themselves apparent. With a great roar he dropped the bottle and began to chase the lad round the engine room with the wheel spanner with general havoc until restrained by the rest of the lads. Anyone remember this?
tim
Was not me.....but I do like the smell of meths :rolleyes:
In modern mine hunters, our emergency steering position is in whats called the prop room, where we could take direct control of the voith schneiders propulsion units. Its usually manned with one stoker and a QM when at specials, it has a compass repeater and voice comms with the bridge.
ivorthediver
08-05-2009, 17:59
In modern mine hunters, our emergency steering position is in whats called the prop room, where we could take direct control of the voith schneiders propulsion units. Its usually manned with one stoker and a QM when at specials, it has a compass repeater and voice comms with the bridge.
Hi Dave ......what in Christendom is voith schneider propulsion unit please?
some sort of shrouded propeller housing perhaps ? :confused:
Hi Dave ......what in Christendom is voith schneider propulsion unit please?
some sort of shrouded propeller housing perhaps ? :confused:
http://www.voithturbo.de/vt_en_pua_marine_vspropeller.htm
Try looking here Ivor.
It might as well be"Russian" to us dabtoes!!!!!
ivorthediver
08-05-2009, 18:47
http://www.voithturbo.de/vt_en_pua_marine_vspropeller.htm
Try looking here Ivor.
It might as well be"Russian" to us dabtoes!!!!!
What a fascinating piece of engineering and so practical for use on Minesweepers...I had no idea that propulsion had become so advanced
Thank you for Ferreting this out for me Dave ..Much obliged
Vegaskip
08-05-2009, 18:58
Ivor, I remember someone made a model VS it was in Model Boats mag.
ivorthediver
08-05-2009, 19:03
Ivor, I remember someone made a model VS it was in Model Boats mag.
Thanks for that Jim........ I better start looking in back issues
Regards Ivor
jbryce1437
08-05-2009, 19:18
Have a bit play with your own ship here:
http://www.voithturbo.de/545950.htm
ivorthediver
08-05-2009, 19:28
Have a bit play with your own ship here:
http://www.voithturbo.de/545950.htm
Thanks very much my friend ....first ship I have taken to sea since promotion to Captain ! :)
Try Commodore, Ivor
Don't let them take some of the perks that you have earned!!!!!!!
alanbenn
08-05-2009, 19:36
Jim, great link. Took to it like water off a duck's back and these seaman made out it was difficult!!:p
Regards
Alan
Jim, great link. Took to it like water off a duck's back and these seaman made out it was difficult!!:p
Regards
Alan
Sorry Alan
Didn't pay too much attention
Too busy writing my thesis proving Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong!!!!!! and N.A.S.A. has just called wanting my advice on warp drive for their trip to Alpha Centauri
alanbenn
08-05-2009, 20:03
Dave, I wouldn't bother sending it to them THEY asked me the same thing years ago........sent it off only to be told they thought it was too advanced for them...did I have anything easier?
Regards
Alan
They did say that a Brit tried to help them. But they couldn't understand Geordinese!!!!!!!!
ivorthediver
08-05-2009, 20:15
They did say that a Brit tried to help them. But they couldn't understand Geordinese!!!!!!!!
You two want locking up ........It was me who solved the riddle of Warp Drive
it was easy...... with a warped sense of humour like mine ! :rolleyes:
Sorry Ivor. Living in the U.S. has got me into the habit of taking bits of world history and saying that I invented/saw it first
ivorthediver
08-05-2009, 20:36
Sorry Ivor. Living in the U.S. has got me into the habit of taking bits of world history and saying that I invented/saw it first
You have been working to hard Shipmate.....how about having a tot and hitting the sack..... by your self...... I mean
Can I take this set of crossed chrome spanners off now ? ...its giving me back ache.
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