View Full Version : Cap Ribbons/Tallies
Shipswriter
26-03-2008, 14:00
Greetings to everyone.
I am a new member and I hope that you will all forgive my naivety asking this question. I have just started collecting RN cap tallies and just want to confirm the meaning / significance of the dot that is sometimes seen after the ships name. Does this define a particular era of tally or does it have other significance? Can anyone help?
Many thanks and apologies if I'm asking a question thats been answered many times before.
John Brown
26-03-2008, 14:06
Welcome to the forum Ships.
I expect one of the current or ex matelots will be able to answer this for you soon.
Regards...John
Shipswriter
26-03-2008, 14:18
John
Many thanks for the welcome. I'm not that familiar with forums but I must say this one is particularly interesting.
I hope someone can help me out
herakles
26-03-2008, 20:36
Welcome Shipswriter! It's always good to have another member.
If there's anything about using the forum you don't understand, send me a private message (PM) (Click on User CP)
romft1945
27-03-2008, 08:23
Hi and welcome to the site I have just had a quick at some of my cap tallies and the only one with a dot at the end is a Polish one so sorry cant help Probably a full stop ?
ROM
Greetings to everyone.
I am a new member and I hope that you will all forgive my naivety asking this question. I have just started collecting RN cap tallies and just want to confirm the meaning / significance of the dot that is sometimes seen after the ships name. Does this define a particular era of tally or does it have other significance? Can anyone help?
Many thanks and apologies if I'm asking a question thats been answered many times before.
May I also welcome you.
Pre WW11, Tallies, had a full stop after the name.
Post WW11, Tallies, the stop was removed.
More information on cap tallies can be found on Google NHCRA - RN Cap Tallies.
Good luck in your research
Shipswriter
27-03-2008, 19:44
Many thanks everyone for the help and the welcome - much appreciated
Kevin Denlay
28-03-2008, 13:07
An RN cap tally from HMS Electra (supposedly genuine) just sold on eBay for over 250GBP! And here I was biding 70GBP thinking I had a chance! Yeah, right, fat chance!
K
The following may be of interest? I am told that pre war cap ribbons bore a fullstop after the ships name and are quite rare. I have 2, Pelican and Mermaid, both of which were issued post war. Update. Please www.nhcra-online.org/19c/captallies.htm
alanbenn
27-04-2009, 19:14
Mousey, the cap tallies with full stops don't come up for sale that often, if the ones you have are full length, ie. not cut then they can fetch upwards of £100 each. Obviously the popularity of the ship and/or the rarity of them determines how much they would sell for.
But certainly the ones I've seen on ebay sell very well, the average price is usually around £25-£45 but with a few interested bidders can go much higher.
Regards
Alan
Guys, I have a tally with "HMS PUNCHESTON" the quotation marks are actualy on the tally, any ideas why....... It was given to me by my sea daddy, an old 3 badge AB on the Reclaim.
Gary
Jan Steer
28-04-2009, 07:43
You are correct Mousey. They do have a full stop after the name. I have a collection of ribbons, some my own and some ww1. I have ROB ROY uncut and unused and even an unused Italian one from "EMMANUELE FILIBERTO". I guess they must both be quite rare.
best wishes
Jan
Hi there,
Just throwing this out there on the off chance there may be a collector who has what I'm looking for.
Canadian cap tallies. Buy/Sell/Trade, whichever you prefer.
Please e-mail me at jim7966@sympatico.ca
Thank you very much.
fearless_rs
29-09-2009, 08:45
What about misspelt tallies? I can remember Navy News reporting a wrong batch of H.M.S. BOSINGTON instead of H.M.S. BOSSINGTON.
Cap tallies with full stops were phased out around 1956 depending on stocks held. Care has to be taken when buying cap tallies, vessels built 1940-45 did not normally have named tallies unless they remained in commission after 1945
Another thing regarding cap tallies, if I may divert the current discussion.
With regards to the wearing of tallies bearing the ships name or "H.M.S." or "HM DESTROYERS" etc during wartime.
I am constantly receiving 'helpful' advice from veterans saying in no uncertain terms that images we hold are faked and that during the war all cap tallies read "HMS" only, for secrecy reasons etc....
Now, I understand that many of the photographs the museum holds are to some degree posed but there are an awful large number of images where the cap tally still reads the name of the ship even as late as 1943/4. Sometimes these names are incorrect but more often than not they are correct. This is particularly the case with shore establishments.
My three guesses (and they are just that) would be:
1) It took time for the policy to be phased in
2) I am guessing the wearing of shore establishments didn't matter as much due to the fact that the location of a dockyard wasn't in question even to the enemy.
3) People just ignored it due to pride and/or esprit d'corps
I am planning to go to the national archives to see if I can find the AFO which forbides the wearing of named tallies (if it exists) but in the meantime I wouldn't mind hearing you opinions.:confused:
Ian
Hello Folks
the original link at the start of this thread shows a page done by yours truely. I obtained information from not only the RN Museum and Library but also from the Greenwich Maritime Museum.
Unfortunately for my sins am also an avid tally collector and to date have been offered some good deals/trades etc... but have also been offered some right do-do.
HMS etc.. during WWII, depends on where the rating came from, if from a shore base and he was an old salt the chances are that he would have an old tally from previous visit - a lot of those going to sea would therefore keep their shore base tally on their white cap and use their issued HMS tally for their working cap.
The dreaded full stop, yep what has been mentioned is correct, if you are being offered a tally or see one on ebay then before you bid have a quick check on ships status and make sure it would have been around prior to WWII.
Unfortunately the same sort of weave was used right up to the early 1960s and at that time a lot of 25th anniversaries came around so lots of reproductions flooded the market and these are now being offered as genuine. Later issues are easy to spot as weave changed completely and the German manufacturered ones are even easier to spot as the thread used changed colour.
A good Full Stop tally should cost no more than £50 for a normal unit but if lost in action then it increases accordingly. Example a Royal Naval Division cap tally purchased 5 years ago for £20, now you would be lucky to find a genuine one for less than triple that price.....
If I can be of any help to others then dont hesitate to drop us a ditty.
Yours Aye
Danny
james_harvey
30-09-2009, 11:13
I have the wedding photo when Ted Biggs married my great aunt in 1943.
Ted survived the loss of hood as an ordinary signalman, yet in the photo he is a leading signalman with a Hood cap tally. I think as you say the sailors took a pride int heir ships and if they served pre war then they would have spares.
Regards
James
Danny.
I have recently obtained a book named Naval and Maritime Badges and Insignia of World War 2 by Guido Rosignolia published by Blandford Press, Poole, Dorset.
It is interesting and covers GB, USSR, Denmark, Germany, France, Italy, USA, Japan, Poland, Netherlands, and Finland. I dont know if it is still available, but it is an intresting reference on badges and Tallies.
Regards
Harry
fearless_rs
02-10-2009, 21:37
When out the Gulf onboard Charybdis in 1990, the rig for leaving harbour (Jebel Ali, Dubai) was No.10s (Whitefront, White shorts), with Cherry B Baseball Caps. On our return to Pompey, it was No10s, this time with caps.
I think our Captain didnt want to push the tropical rig too much.
Guz rating
14-10-2009, 13:49
I always thought cap tallies would be a great thing to collect, but it sounds like there might be some repros out there. I remember being put on a charge for not having the bow over my left ear.:confused:
Alan
stontamar
14-10-2009, 18:04
Collected cap ribbon for close on 50 years and I absolutely confirm that the market is awash with reproduction and fake ribbons extending to include examples held by some of the national museums. My advice is if you cannot tell the difference between these and genuine examples don't spend a lot of money and better still don't spend any money, the message must be buyer be aware.
How's this for a rare ribbon; SMS HINDENBURG found in a compartment when the ship was salvaged and taken into Rosyth. The ribbon was quite badly damaged by sea water and was impregnated by rust but I had it professionally cleaned, treated and conserved and then mounted on card. It was given to me when I was in my early teens by a neighbour who had worked as a diver on the salvage.
To any sailors who visited Whitby in the 1950's and who ended up rolling back on board with cap minus ribbon - I'm sorry!!!
stontamar
Guz rating
14-10-2009, 22:09
Collected cap ribbon for close on 50 years and I absolutely confirm that the market is awash with reproduction and fake ribbons extending to include examples held by some of the national museums. My advice is if you cannot tell the difference between these and genuine examples don't spend a lot of money and better still don't spend any money, the message must be buyer be aware.
How's this for a rare ribbon; SMS HINDENBURG found in a compartment when the ship was salvaged and taken into Rosyth. The ribbon was quite badly damaged by sea water and was impregnated by rust but I had it professionally cleaned, treated and conserved and then mounted on card. It was given to me when I was in my early teens by a neighbour who had worked as a diver on the salvage.
To any sailors who visited Whitby in the 1950's and who ended up rolling back on board with cap minus ribbon - I'm sorry about
stontamar
Thank you Stontamar for your kind advice, I shall certainly do a lot of research before I commit myself. Lovely story about the SM Hindenburg cap ribbon.
Regards
Alan
Doc,
On Google images I came across a picture of Canadian AFO that stated it has come to their attention that men are wearing cap tallies that say HMC Destroyer, or HMC Minesweeper and the practice must stop. Now try as I might I can't find the image again. Also in the book "Sailor, A Pictorial History" page 141 published in 1977 there is a picture of a signalman wearing a tally (only the half of it visible) but it clearly says "Destroyer". So I would guess that these tallies were probably purchased ashore and used in place of "HMS" or "HMCS" without authorization.
TrotOneLower
21-02-2010, 10:28
Should you want Cap Tallies, or anything else for you memory box, this is a good place to go: http://www.navybluememorabilia.co.uk/default.asp
Hello Folks
the original link at the start of this thread shows a page done by yours truely. I obtained information from not only the RN Museum and Library but also from the Greenwich Maritime Museum.
Unfortunately for my sins am also an avid tally collector and to date have been offered some good deals/trades etc... but have also been offered some right do-do.
HMS etc.. during WWII, depends on where the rating came from, if from a shore base and he was an old salt the chances are that he would have an old tally from previous visit - a lot of those going to sea would therefore keep their shore base tally on their white cap and use their issued HMS tally for their working cap.
The dreaded full stop, yep what has been mentioned is correct, if you are being offered a tally or see one on ebay then before you bid have a quick check on ships status and make sure it would have been around prior to WWII.
Unfortunately the same sort of weave was used right up to the early 1960s and at that time a lot of 25th anniversaries came around so lots of reproductions flooded the market and these are now being offered as genuine. Later issues are easy to spot as weave changed completely and the German manufacturered ones are even easier to spot as the thread used changed colour.
A good Full Stop tally should cost no more than £50 for a normal unit but if lost in action then it increases accordingly. Example a Royal Naval Division cap tally purchased 5 years ago for £20, now you would be lucky to find a genuine one for less than triple that price.....
If I can be of any help to others then dont hesitate to drop us a ditty.
Yours Aye
Danny
Hi there Danny, just seen the tally page and would like to ask you if it is possible to get just a print out of some to put in my photo albums,i've finally got round to it, I need 8 to finish all 1950/60s, thanks for any help, STAN
Dreadnought
23-02-2010, 08:58
I am not collector of cap tallies ... as if I haven't got enough to collect ...!! But I was given these some years ago, and believe them to be genuine. They are full length, one looks as though it has been tied at the ends at some time in it's life.
Best viewed magnified
I am not collector of cap tallies ... as if I haven't got enough to collect ...!! But I was given these some years ago, and believe them to be genuine. They are full length, one looks as though it has been tied at the ends at some time in it's life.
Best viewed magnified
Clive
Both tallies still in use by Pusser so you got no problems with those ones mate
Danny
Hi there Danny, just seen the tally page and would like to ask you if it is possible to get just a print out of some to put in my photo albums,i've finally got round to it, I need 8 to finish all 1950/60s, thanks for any help, STAN
Stan
What ones you looking for mate I will see what I got and act accordingly.
Danny
Hi Danny, I would like to get Indefatigable,Sheffield,Surprise,Morecambe Bay, Phoenicia,Glentham, Davenham(H/kong flotilla) Tamar and Victoria barracks
(Southsea) I do hope I am not asking to much, and I thank you for any help, STAN
Doc,
On Google images I came across a picture of Canadian AFO that stated it has come to their attention that men are wearing cap tallies that say HMC Destroyer, or HMC Minesweeper and the practice must stop. Now try as I might I can't find the image again. Also in the book "Sailor, A Pictorial History" page 141 published in 1977 there is a picture of a signalman wearing a tally (only the half of it visible) but it clearly says "Destroyer". So I would guess that these tallies were probably purchased ashore and used in place of "HMS" or "HMCS" without authorization.
Thnaks Jim, thats quite useful. I wonder if something similar happened this side of the pond. Furthermore, the practice of wearing named tallies must have carried on in some quarters - even if it was outlawed in 1940.
I gues it is going to be a trip to the archives!
Doc
Doc,
Some "evidence" for you: Norfolk Navy Yard 1941 (probably July)...not sure why 129 given her pendant number was 67
alanbenn
07-03-2010, 12:19
Dick, up until 1940 aircraft carriers were allocated pennant numbers with prefix letter I, so her pennant number was probably I-29. After 1940 the prefix I was allocated to destroyers.
Regards
Alan
Hi all,
I wonder if anyone knows the best place to buy authentic RN cap tallies from
:)
Mitch Hinde
19-07-2010, 22:35
I have "Commander Far East Fleet", does this qualify as one the longest.
The last T almost disappeared in the bow over your left ear.
Mitch
ceylon220
21-07-2010, 21:24
Remember seeing this young lass in Portsmouth in 1958 sporting a skirt covered in RN ship cap tallies, often wondered if these were her trophies from past "achievements" with our young matelots ashore;):rolleyes:
Wouldn't mind tallies from ship's/establishments I served in......only got one (Keppel), did have (Ceylon) but lost it.!
So Danny........if available, what price roughly and where to buy, for following:-
GANGES, EXCELLENT,CEYLON, ORION,SURPRISE, PHOENICIA, PEMBROKE, AJAX, CHICHESTER.
Here is one of my cap tallies, with a souvenir from a great run ashore in Hamilton ,Bermuda.
I have placed it in the picture frame of the ship
The odd one out is of H.M.S BELLEROPHON,which i was going to put with my H.M.S BELFAST frame,but it did not seem correct.
cylla
stontamar
28-07-2010, 22:08
QUOTE - Thanks Jim, thats quite useful. I wonder if something similar happened this side of the pond. Furthermore, the practice of wearing named tallies must have carried on in some quarters - even if it was outlawed in 1940.
I guess it is going to be a trip to the archives!
Doc
The practise did continue after war started, I have a couple of examples of cap ribbons in my collection issued to ratings drafted to ships that were commissioned post 1939. It would appear these were issued to a limited number of crew for wearing at the ships first commissioning ceremony. I believe they were subsequent withdrawn and the ratings reverted to the wartime standard H.M.S. ribbon. I do not know when this practice ceased.
Other examples seen suggest that ribbons were worn for propaganda purposes, examples of this can be seen in photographs taken of EXETER crew on their return to the UK after the River Plate action and likewise with DORSETSHIRE crew after the action against the BISMARCK.
Regarding the H.M DESTROYER – CRUISERS – MINESWEEPER etc ribbons, these were never official issue although photographs of ratings wearing these ribbons are not too difficult to find. It is one of those examples where Jack is seen to push the boundaries of what he wore as opposed to what he was supposed to wear (official uniform), incidentally a trait not restricted to the lower deck. Presumably the naval tailors had a hand in selling these ribbons but I guess the chances of seeing them worn on board or in the dockyards would be severely limited by the attentions of the regulators. More likely they were worn well aware from the attentions of the naval authorities, for example when the ratings were on home leave.
QUOTE - Some "evidence" for you: Norfolk Navy Yard 1941 (probably July)...not sure why 129 given her pendant number was 67
Dick
Regarding the pictures of ratings wearing H.M.S. FORMIDABLE cap ribbons; my first question would be, can the date and location be verified. Were all the photographs taken at the same time and location and what relevance has the buoy showing HMS I29 or is it 129 and why is the crest not HMS FORMIDABLE’s crest?
If the location is Norfolk (July 1941) what is the mast in the background of the second picture? Presumably the picture post-dates her commissioning in October 1940 added to which the crew are in whites effectively ruling out first commissioning photographs. The mix of ship named ribbons and the standard H.M.S. ribbon in the group photograph also suggests that it was a stage-managed event done for the benefit of the camera. More questions than answers unfortunately!!
Finally a comment regarding the use of the full stop after the ships name and the relevance this has to dating the ribbon. The use of this device continued after the war and was not restricted to ribbons belonging to ships first commissioned before the war. Design of the ribbon, font size and design the material and weave are all important identifying features in assessing those that are authentic ribbons from the reproduction and fake ribbons. There are unfortunately masses of these ribbons offered for sale and, as previously stated, it’s a matter of buyer be aware. It is easy to spend lots of money on worthless junk.
Regards
stontamar
Wouldn't mind tallies from ship's/establishments I served in......only got one (Keppel), did have (Ceylon) but lost it.!
So Danny........if available, what price roughly and where to buy, for following:-
GANGES, EXCELLENT,CEYLON, ORION,SURPRISE, PHOENICIA, PEMBROKE, AJAX, CHICHESTER.
Mate
Apologies for delay in getting back to you but been off busy getting myself sorted for daughters wedding, day was good and just had grandkids for 2 weeks (help).
Anyway, the tallies you are after have two choices: (1) check navy news I believe a company who advertise on there will create modern weave tallies of your choice, last time I used them was to create a tally to celebrate my lads birth and this now is pinned above his bedroom door (12 years later).
Other way is to find yourself a decent dealer, I use dave down in Dorset area, he has provided me with some nice tallies over the years and have been using him for almost 10 years if not longer..... his prices seem fair, I dont usually compare dealers on prices as like superstores you will always find a cheaper one eventually. I got his number somewhere, I know he does the military collectors fairs etc... and will dig details for you on my next set of days off (wed/thur coming). Am at a militaria fair in Bromley on Sunday 31st July, will take some numbers if I see tallies you after.
There is another way but sometimes takes a bit of time and that is get "Medal News" and watch out for any militaria fairs in your area and pop along.
As for price - depends on how desperate you are, I have seen stupid prices bound around for tallies and have found myself outpriced for quite common tallies. I refuse to pay over £10 for any unit post war, ignore any stories attached to tallies ie. "I got this of a sailor when he left HMS xyz" etc... if it was that important why they selling it then? dealers sell, collectors would rather trade LOL my HMS Hood cost me zip, came from my uncle whose brother died onboard - is it real, possibly, weave is good, style is relevant but who actually knows my HMS Ramilies cost me zip, got given in pub by old fella who saw some of my spare tallies in Dads saloon bar....
Danny
Danny..............looking after Grandchildren?....that just about qualifies you for "CDM & Bar"......or at least Sippers!
Seriously, thanks for your comprehensive reply to my query. Starting with Navy News (copy of which is on table), I shall investigate.............also rummage in spare room, there are still some mysterious boxes to check for absent "Ceylon" tally.......when I moved from Cambridge in 1994, things got put in all sorts of places.........might still have tally........somewhere! :)
stontamar
01-08-2010, 11:18
As a cap ribbon collector for 50 years I must say that the companies that are producing fake and reproduction ribbons are an absolute menace and in any other field of collecting would be shunned by serious collectors and in some cases those selling and manufacturing fakes for profit would be prosecuted. So why do people continue to purchase these fakes?
Another point that I believe should be made is that while the original purchaser may know that they are buying a fake or reproduction ribbon I have seen lots of examples where the original purchaser has passed on the ribbon to their family only for their family to believe it is original. I have even seen this process extended to ribbons held by National museums. Fakes bought in and then either by design or by default being treated as original.
It has made the ribbon collecting hobby one that is fraught with danger for unsuspecting collectors and for those that are unable to identify this rubbish a very costly affair. This commercial practice has, in my opinion, completely spoilt the hobby. I have over 3000 ribbons and very rarely add to this number now due to the state of the hobby.
Final point I would make is that with ribbons produced over the last part of the 20th century and into the 21st it is impossible to identify those that are obtained from a genuine service source and those that have been manufactured for the collectors market. With the old type weaved ribbons there was a minimum batch order so, for example, fakes and reproductions tended to be concentrated on well known ships (HOOD, KELLY and ROYAL NAVY DIVISION being but a few well known prime examples and perhaps even more ludicrously the PRINCE OF WALES falls in to this category) but with the modern computer design products (full width gold thread on the reverse of the ribbon) ribbons with any name or unit can be produced as a one off.
Hope this may help any unsuspecting collectors.
Regards
stontamar
As a cap ribbon collector for 50 years I must say that the companies that are producing fake and reproduction ribbons are an absolute menace and in any other field of collecting would be shunned by serious collectors and in some cases those selling and manufacturing fakes for profit would be prosecuted. So why do people continue to purchase these fakes?
Another point that I believe should be made is that while the original purchaser may know that they are buying a fake or reproduction ribbon I have seen lots of examples where the original purchaser has passed on the ribbon to their family only for their family to believe it is original. I have even seen this process extended to ribbons held by National museums. Fakes bought in and then either by design or by default being treated as original.
It has made the ribbon collecting hobby one that is fraught with danger for unsuspecting collectors and for those that are unable to identify this rubbish a very costly affair. This commercial practice has, in my opinion, completely spoilt the hobby. I have over 3000 ribbons and very rarely add to this number now due to the state of the hobby.
Final point I would make is that with ribbons produced over the last part of the 20th century and into the 21st it is impossible to identify those that are obtained from a genuine service source and those that have been manufactured for the collectors market. With the old type weaved ribbons there was a minimum batch order so, for example, fakes and reproductions tended to be concentrated on well known ships (HOOD, KELLY and ROYAL NAVY DIVISION being but a few well known prime examples and perhaps even more ludicrously the PRINCE OF WALES falls in to this category) but with the modern computer design products (full width gold thread on the reverse of the ribbon) ribbons with any name or unit can be produced as a one off.
Hope this may help any unsuspecting collectors.
Regards
stontamar
Mate
Tks for your very serious sounding input! apologies if our little chat about finding an ex-matelot a tally (fake or real) to complete memories seems to have rubbed a sore point but hey ho life goes on.
Collectors soon learn right and wrong, in fact I consider it a right of passage - we all been diddled or in most cases we all just not stepped back and considered the shiney looking tally as being too good to be true - either that or just not having been there seen that or done it, I especially like the collectors who offer me tallies from the trawlers that went down south in '82 - bless em we wore HMS or our last draft or shore base but then again I did have a few made up for crew as mememtoes and I believe so did a lot of other Naval Parties at the time - so thats me in trouble yet again!
You will be pleased to note that the BIG naval museums all have their own systems to check real from fake so the number being stored will be down to all but zero in coming years, most enter after being donated by family members and they are not turned away to save upsetting family who think they are doing what their family member would have wanted.
Still you will be pleased to note that I took great joy in pointing out to a dealer today who was offering a "ROYAL ARTILLERY" pre WWI tally at a very high cost that it was a modern weave tally........ I think the frown and evil glare he gave me said it all....
Danny
Found the notice finally.
whalerman
02-08-2010, 10:12
Must get up in the loft.
I have in a box a lot of memorabilia from my navy days including Cap Tallies from Ships/Shore Establishment I served in.
Ganges, Dryad, Virago, Undaunted, Ark Royal, Barossa, Cochrane, Keppel and F.O.S.N.I. (Flag Officer Scotland and Northern Ireland). Unfortunately I never got to wear the FOSNI one as I was promoted to Petty Officer on my Draft to MHQ Pitreavie
Brett Hendey
03-08-2010, 05:39
Like Clive, I am not a collector of tallies, but I have three in my 'naval bits and pieces' collection. They are full length, clearly well worn and named to:
HMS KENYA
HMS ZULU
HMS BULWARK
I feel an attachment to the HMS ZULU one, because I live in a province of South Africa that is overrun with Zulus.
Regards
Brett
Hello, i am a new member and I have a question regarding the value of hat tallies. I found one from the USS Lexington CV 2. What are the general values of something like this.
Hello Mate
good to see you on the listings.
Ah tallies - I will be upfront mate, value, all comes down to who collects what, when and why sort of thing.....
Have seen USN tallies go for as little as a few quid right up to a nice handy little wad of notes..... most collectors usually go for the RN ones. I like a lot of other collectors have been priced out the market mate by others paying over the top prices.....
The most I've coughed up for a USN tally is about £25 notes, if you looking to see and have an account on ebay then give it a go, if in good nick you might make a few bob, the cut ones or shortened ones usually stay a bit lower in price...
Unfortunately mate its a cut throat business.... and we all out for a bargain... it dont help that "she who must be obeyed" found my last smuggling device so until I can find a new way of sneaking tallies into the collection I am up the swanny without a paddle LOL
Danny
Thanks for the greeting Danny!
LOL, I don't have one of those female stop me getting my stuff problems-THANK GOD. I did get this one for a bargain--- less than one dollar if you can believe that and I am giving you the ABSOLUTE truth about that I appreciate the post and would like to note that the Lexington was a pretty famous USN ship [with all due respect to you guys]....
cheers!
Dave
Jan Steer
21-05-2011, 08:28
Please forgive my ignorance gentlemen but in my day American sailors wore 'pork pie' hats. Where did they have their cap ribbons?
best wishes
Jan
Teuchter
21-05-2011, 14:35
Good point Jan - I was wondering that too!!
stontamar
21-05-2011, 14:53
Please forgive my ignorance gentlemen but in my day American sailors wore 'pork pie' hats. Where did they have their cap ribbons?
best wishes
Jan
Hi Jan
I am not quite sure when, as my knowledge of the USN is very limited, but the design of the cap worn by USN ratings changed. Please see the attached photograph as an example.
stontamar
Sean Roberts
21-05-2011, 19:06
At hte time the USS Lexiington(Carrier) Commisioned,I believe the lower deck ratings below the rank of CPOwere wearing what were known as 'Slob' Hats,.The typical type of hat depicted in many a film.I believe the individuals ship was notated in a sewn on shoulder patch.???
derek s.langsdon
22-05-2011, 12:32
Regretably do'nt have cap ribbons for my old Dad's WWII service with H.M.S.Northern Wave or H.M.S.Asturias,when he probably wore just H.M.S.The two ribbons I found amongst mementoes in his cap box were from H.M.S.Leopard (no full stop after name) and the Italian R.N.E.F.Duca D'Aosta (with a small star at each end).....My own old NatSvc issue ('46) copy of "A Seamsn's Pocket-Boo(printed June '43-Price if purchased Is.3d) instructs on pages 98/99 Kit Layout, that "The cap ribbon must be worn so that the H.M.S. is directly over the nose and it must be tied in a reef bow over the left ear"...further instructions are specific on the lanyard/scarves/overcoats etc.--derek=L
derek s.langsdon
22-05-2011, 12:38
Add my last -should read Seaman's Pocket Book .and see kit list says two cap ribbons issued to all on joining (with one blue one white cap)-derek-L
Thanks for the greeting Danny!
LOL, I don't have one of those female stop me getting my stuff problems-THANK GOD. I did get this one for a bargain--- less than one dollar if you can believe that and I am giving you the ABSOLUTE truth about that I appreciate the post and would like to note that the Lexington was a pretty famous USN ship [with all due respect to you guys]....
cheers!
Dave
Dave
Yep I can believe..... sometimes you get genuine seller who just clearing out loft/attic or shed and I have felt pangs of guilt as I hand over my few pennies for something I've hunted hight and low for.... still I always tell them "it gone to a good home" and will eventually be passed to my lad - then again I've seen the glint of greed in dealers eyes as they watch you flick thru their books of tallies whilst you try and work out how a tally you saw only last month for £10 is now being listed for £50.........
And yes I have heard that the Lexington was well known in certain parts of the world...... LOL
Danny
Danny,
Well, I had very few pangs of guilt as I watched the tick tock of the auction clock and crossed my fingers, that I can honestly say. I almost feel bad for em, but its kinda hard feeling bad for people who are selling their uncle's stuff just to make a few bux. I mean come on, when I want to make a few bucks, I grab a shovel and head out the door and find some extra work to do....But hey, whatever. I just keep telling myself the same thing 'its going to a good home'...
:cool: I kinda figured y'all knew the Lady Lex's history... LOL...
thanks for the info, you guys are just confirming my suspiciouns that I got a nice bargain. Actually the whole set of stuff she was selling cost me a bit more than the tally did [but it was worth it-- there was a scrapbook page too with all stuff/articles centered around the ships participation in the search for Amelia Earheart--the period from which all this came from--]...so I figure put the tally in with the Lexington's paper with the article for the search, the photos of the ship and a few more bric a brac...its history that just needed to stay together.
cheers
dave
Jan Steer
23-05-2011, 18:38
Siggy/Danny, I do hope that I have misundertood or misinterpreted your words above. It seems that offering just a few pennies to a genuine person clearing out their loft is a little unjust. Maybe by offering close to the going rate you may alleviate your feelings of guilt.
best wishes
Jan
Jan
mate a few pennines can be anything from a few quid to about £20 per tally - so a figure of speech mate...... have also found that when it comes to collecting you gotta be firm matey, they is going to sell no matter what and a dealer will start lower than a collector and make it sound like they giving a good deal, then they sell on to a genuine collector and make a HUGE profit..... like lawyers, you can't do without dealers but they not always in it for the love of it.
So if it came across as heartless then perhaps you have to be in the end, but it doesn't stop the odd twinge and yes perhaps it does make you add a few more but at least most collectors will have more twinges than a dealer.
Dan
I agree with Danny a 'few pennies' is a figure of speech. And furthermore, if its an ebay auction item and they got it started at .99 cents who am I to clue em in? That's what they want to start the bid at then so be it. All bets are off on whether or not the item will go for good money or will be a BARGAIN score. Dealers well, dealers will go the extra mile to bleed EVERY cent out of a collector. I tested one recently by offering to sell them some letters that I had purchased at a reasonable price--you know 'played dumb'. Well as expected, the dealer came back and offered to take em off my hands at HALF of what I paid for em. Think they saw one too many episodes of 'Pawn Stars'. Sorry to any dealers out there--in this day and age of digital post it yourself media, I don't [we actually] need you to make a buck.
:D
Jan Steer
24-05-2011, 18:38
Thankyou for putting me straight gentlemen. Clearly my belief in human nature is very misplaced. I will bear everything you have told me in mind when I offer my collection of 1st ww and post ww2 tallies for sale.
best wishes
Jan
This whole business is totally new to me. I never thought there could have been a market for such things. See how naive I am! I have all my old cap-tallies: Collingwood, Bulwark, St.Angelo, Excellent, Terror, Blackpool, and lastly Victory for the week I was doing discharge routine. I also have Belfast because a mate of mine was on her in the Far East - I don't know how I came by it. Some runs ashore ended a little hazily. My brother who did World War II service only wore HMS tallies. I was told it was so that if the ship was sunk none of the hats floating in the sea could betray its identity. It made sense to me. That would not apply to shore-base cap-tallies. The thing about a HMS tally was that it was possible to have the M over your nose and the bow over your left eye - Oh yes, my bro always put a silver threepenny bit in the knot of the bow. You can't do that with Collingwood, and anyway by the mid fifties it was forbidden - centre the name over your nose and the bow over your left ear. As sprogs we all tried to get away with bow-waves in our hats and got picked up for it by crushers when ashore. By the time I had got my first badge the thing to do for jolly jacks with some time in was to pull the hat hard down and square never mind bow-waves they only showed your lack of time in - see attached photo. I realise that last bit is off topic - sorry. Anyway - I have all my cap-tallies. I wouldn't sell them for anything. The only person they mean anything to is me and possibly in future, one of my sons. My plan was always to mount them up with some pic of the ships and frame them, but as yet I haven't got around to doing that.
Nobby_N
Thankyou for putting me straight gentlemen. Clearly my belief in human nature is very misplaced. I will bear everything you have told me in mind when I offer my collection of 1st ww and post ww2 tallies for sale.
best wishes
Jan
Oh Jan now you mad at me ....... its not a case of putting ya straight mate, its a case of I would rather my son sell my own collection of er a few tallies to another collector than go direct to a dealer ........ both may offer a reasonable price in their eyes for the single tally or the whole collection but I believe that the collector would be offering the price out of interest and affection for the article whereas the dealer would only be thinking I know who would like that and I can still make a profit
Still in the end I will leave that problem to my son, I will be well gone, fired from a chaff launcher during the Thursday War if I get my way, and I would imagine that like your own collection, unless the collector has just won the lottery I can see a single collector purchasing the whole lot in one go .. I know that I couldn't for example purchase your collection in one hit, so the dealers win .... I was lucky with 60% of my own collection as I knew someone who worked for a large maritime insurance company section and this company was given a tally by every naval unit over a very long period - they were going to take a dozen black bin bags of tallies and burn them but I have given them a good home and hopefully my son will do the same!
Danny
Jan Steer
25-05-2011, 12:16
Danny, thanks for your reply but no offence taken or implied. Your hobby is a bit of a mystery to me that's all.
best wishes
Jan
Jan
Its not a hobby! OMG its a way of life LOL
I like the smell of napalm in the morning but I like walking up to dealers at military fares and pointing out that the tally they have on their table priced at £180 is a 1980s reproduction and then walking off.......... been told to "f off" a few times but it is so satisfying LOL
Glad we good
and if any dealers reading this and sulking - I loathe sum but not all LOL
Danny
Danny,
:eek: how could you do that? I just hope they have some potential victims er customers standing there when you unload on em.
Dave
lodesman
11-12-2011, 17:26
Every month in a certain Ex Services Club magazine there's an add 'Cap tallies/ribbons wanted by collector, top prices paid' Same person sell's them on e-Bay with a starting price of £100 each!! It annoys me to think people will virtually give away their tallies to what they see as a genuine collector, & he does that!!:(
John O'Callaghan
12-12-2011, 23:21
lodesman old son!While I sympathise with your lament.Unfortunately it's called 'Free Enterprise'
Cheers John O'C.
Geoff Gilbey
16-12-2011, 17:10
lodesman old son!While I sympathise with your lament.Unfortunately it's called 'Free Enterprise'
Cheers John O'C.
Their must be a good business opportunity for the manufacturer of tally's to reprint old tally's. It would destroy the market for the cowboys and give everybody a chance to own the ribbons of their choice. I saw Hms Anzio tally advertised on Ebay and it sold for £45.00 when I was own the Anzio they were probably half a crown.
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