Imperial Japanese Navy dives on Force Z wrecks?

[Kevin Denlay]

Gents

In March 1942 the IJN salvage vessel Seishu was sent to find/dive the wrecks of HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse, with their main target being Prince of Wales so as to get her latest ‘fittings’ if possible.

Over the years in various books I have seen it stated (or should I say 'implied') that they found and dived ‘them’; "them" as in both ships, but………………….

I have just now read an excerpt from what would be considered an informed source by an IJN officer who authored ‘Chinbotsu ei senkan tansaku ki’ ('An Account of the Search for the Sunken British Battleships' is the translation given in what I am reading) that said they only found and dived Repulse (and removed some items from her) but were disappointed that they could not locate PoW. They then went back to Singapore to replenish and instead of going back out to continue searching as intended were called away for a job in Java and never went back.

Does anyone know if they, or others later (but still during the war), eventually dive PoW also?

TIA.

Kevin

[MelQuick]

'Removed some items' from Repulse? What a bloody cheek! Both ships are war graves.

Mel

[berry]

It's still a bloody cheek,although they would not have been war graves in 1942,and even if they had have been that would not have stopped them poking about.Did they say what 'items' were removed from Repulse ??
regards
Sid

[Rob Hoole]

It's still a bloody cheek,although they would not have been war graves in 1942,and even if they had have been that would not have stopped them poking about.Did they say what 'items' were removed from Repulse ??
regards
Sid

I imagine it would have been anything of potential intelligence value. I'm sure we would have done the same if we thought we could retrieve enemy code books, operational plans, force dispositions or useful technology.

[patroclus]

It was standard practice for the RN to dive on sunken U-boats in both WW1 and WW2 when the water was shallow enough. This was particularly the case in WW1 when many U-boats were sunk in the shallow coastal waters of the UK. The purpose, of course, was to recover intelligence material (and to identify the sunken boat).

[Benbow]

A very good book which graphically details how RN divers entered recently sunk U-Boats in WW1 is "U-Boat Intelligence 1914-1918" author Robert M Grant .

Dusty Millers Secret War Part 1

http://www.divernet.com/Wrecks/159195/dusty_millers_secret_war_part_1.html

Dusty Millers Secret War Part 2

http://www.divernetxtra.com/wrecks/dusty1098.htm

Another story here

http://www.gwpda.org/naval/ub4.htm

[berry]

Benbow,terrific stuff re Dusty Miller and 'flying-squad'.All new to me .Thanks vy much.
regards
Sid

[Kevin Denlay]

Re the above question as to what was recovered, according to the Japanese they recovered only some AA shells and some AA weapons. After all, they were not really interested in 'old' Repulse, it was the radar gear, etc off the new PoW they were after, but could not relocate her at the time (and never went back to her dive her again during the war).

And as Rob and Patroclus said, we (the allies) would have done (did) the same during the war. Besides the subs mentioned above there is also the case of the IJN heavy cruiser Nachi, sunk with a huge loss of life in Manilla Bay in late 1944, that had items salvaged from her in March 1945 by the USN. So I would hardly call what the Japs attempted/did “bloody cheeky”. What is rather cheeky though is that several times since the end of the war Japanese salvage firms have tried to gain salvage rights to both wrecks. Now that is being 'cheeky' or insenstive to say the least.

However, as for the war graves issue, and I don’t mean to be offensive here but…………….. I would like to point out that the British Government itself seemingly does not give a damn about war grave status when it suits them. Take for instance the 1981 salvage of the gold from HMS Edinburgh, which is/was a war grave. Seems the war graves issue takes second place when large sums of money are involved. Somehow smacks of a double standard to me.

Don’t get me wrong, I think it would have been remiss of them to leave that much gold laying there but………………….the powers that be can't (or, actually, it seems they can) have it both ways. That is, when it suits them a war grave is not a war grave.

[patroclus]

Re the above question as to what was recovered, according to the Japanese they recovered only some AA shells and some AA weapons. After all, they were not really interested in 'old' Repulse, it was the radar gear, etc off the new PoW they were after, but could not relocate her at the time (and never went back to her dive her again during the war).



Why would the Japanese not have been interested in the 284 and 286P radars of REPULSE?

[Kevin Denlay]

Why would the Japanese not have been interested in the 284 and 286P radars of REPULSE?

I have no idea, I am just going on what is stated in IJN literature/sources I have seen.

[GilligansIsland]

Re - Dusty Miller part 2, the leading seaman E. Blackford mentioned is in fact Edwin Blachford, my grandfather, I've sent 2 messages to Divernet a long time ago about the error & not received any response, not happy!

James

[Andy H]

I have no idea, I am just going on what is stated in IJN literature/sources I have seen.

Maybe they thought or associated an old ship as having old and not upto date radars, as maybe they assumed the PoW would have!

Regards

Andy H

[Mk VII]

Natal, Bulwark and Vanguard have all had salvage rights to them sold over the years, and the Jutland wrecks have also been pillaged in the 1950s.

[Benbow]

I think Risdon Beazley Marine salvaged a lot of the wrecks around the UK.

Here are some interesting links.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risdon_Beazley

http://www.risdonbeazley.co.uk/page10.html

http://www.divingheritage.com/thomasbraykern.htm

http://www.shipwreckcentral.com/about6.htm