View Full Version : Somali Pirates (or SE Asian for that matter)
tim lewin
09-04-2009, 08:17
Listening to the news this morning I heard reports of the US merchant vessel captured by Somali pirates, recaptured by her company but with the captain held hostage in a lifeboat/raft? The USS Bainbridge has raced to the scene. The Bainbridge is a cold war era design guided-missile cruiser of immense complexity size and of course financial value, cost of replacement probably north of 500 mln usd. Our tactical planners once again seem to have got their global conflict predictions completely askew. Do we still need ships like the Bainbridge, or for that matter the new Darings? who exactly, or even inexactly, might we confront with these technological jewels? Remember the USS Cole, again, a product of cold war era planning, mortally wounded by 3 men in a rubber dinghy, it was incredible she was not lost, and even more incredible that she was powerless to prevent the attack. How will Bainbridge defend herself against hand fired close range stingers fired from speedboats? Hornets atacking a hippo in a box.
How much would it cost to build 20-40 fast patrol craft (as used by more modest Navies) and convert 3-4 type 42s, there being precious little else left available, to mother and vector them using look-down radar from ship-borne choppers?
Food for thought.....
tim
well i have always been an admirer of the danish fyvisken class, they can be rerolled as either a patrol, aaw or minehunter with in 24 to 48 hours i think just by fitting a different equipment outfit on the open stern. everything from sidescan sonar and mine disposal vehicles to sea sparrow missiles
astraltrader
09-04-2009, 13:37
How much would it cost to build 20-40 fast patrol craft (as used by more modest Navies) and convert 3-4 type 42s, there being precious little else left available, to mother and vector them using look-down radar from ship-borne choppers?
Food for thought.....
tim
That is a very sane and cogent suggestion Tim.
A set up like that would be much more useful in dealing with these pirates than anything we have going at the moment...
Terry
Because it is a 'very sane and cogent suggestion' from Tim is the very reason that it won't happen. Or if it did it would be a first and no doubt entry into service would be after they were no longer needed!!!
Mik
astraltrader
09-04-2009, 15:45
Couldn`t argue with that Mik!:(
NASAAN101
10-04-2009, 01:22
Guys
This that just me or is this getting very very old: two ships that got captured were MV Faina and And MV Sirius Star..
Nikki
Ladies and Gents,
This strikes close to home. I played American Football in college against Maine Maritime College and the homes of the two graduates that are held captive lie equidistant North and South from my home. It seems to me that there are two questions:
1. Why are we tollerating this failed state that is the home of these pirates in the first place?
2. Why are the navies of the world not providing adeqate security?
If my history is right, in the days of British Naval power, an Admiral was dispatched with a fleet to clean up the high seas. Later, after the USA gained it's independence, we cleaned out the Barburry Pirates.
I've got a great idea. Let's get our navies together and clean house, rather than wait for the UN to pass a resolution. These are second rate pirates and we're paying off at a cool $1M per ship. Why don't our governments have a problem with this? Where is the outrage? Where's the action? It's a discrace.
Fred
astraltrader
10-04-2009, 11:43
Too true Fred. The problem is it isnt costing the Governments any money as it is paid for by the insurance companies and then the higher premiums charged!
But of course you are right something should be done.
I think Tim is right in that until we have a few squadrons of ultra fast patrol boats out there based from a larger warship[s] we are fightinhg them with the wrong tools.
Francis Stanley
10-04-2009, 13:25
Ladies and Gents,
This strikes close to home. I played American Football in college against Maine Maritime College and the homes of the two graduates that are held captive lie equidistant North and South from my home. It seems to me that there are two questions:
1. Why are we tollerating this failed state that is the home of these pirates in the first place?
2. Why are the navies of the world not providing adeqate security?
If my history is right, in the days of British Naval power, an Admiral was dispatched with a fleet to clean up the high seas. Later, after the USA gained it's independence, we cleaned out the Barburry Pirates.
I've got a great idea. Let's get our navies together and clean house, rather than wait for the UN to pass a resolution. These are second rate pirates and we're paying off at a cool $1M per ship. Why don't our governments have a problem with this? Where is the outrage? Where's the action? It's a discrace.
Fred
Answer: Lack of Spinal Fortitude.
The government(s) is(are) far too busy with their political correctness agenda's to ever make a decision that will upset the human rights brigade.
Because we have to be really very nice to muslims. Its not just a question of pc.
They have their smelly little fingers on the oil taps.
CTF-151 is currently tasked with anti piracy duties out there.
Somalia is a soverign nation whos actions and territory we are bound to respect.
Certainly there are too few warships out there and the situation would benifit from a large number of small vessels rather than a small number of large vessels.
Also routing of vessels further ofshore may help or even a convoy system of sorts.
But remember it is a big sea and the warships have to be lucky every time the pirates only once.
That's all true.
How about bringing back the Marines? Each ship could have a squad to provide security. They would 'ship' the dangerous routes and then be rotated back by navy ship to the start point again. They would carry the kind of weapons to make short work of these pirates. The Merchant Marine is just out gunned and ill trained.
Fred
Are you suggesting putting Royal Marines on foreign flagged vessels on the open sea?
How many countries do you think will authorise british troops on their vessels, how many will have accommodation for them and just how many Royal Marines do you think there are?
Say you put 10 on each ship and 500 vessels a day transit those waters plus you have to give them some down time so you need twice that number at least to rotate so a minimum of 10000 Marines.
The current operational strength of the Royal Marines is about 7500.
Who pays for these extra men? if the shipping companies do then they become mercenaries.
In fact that is a better idea get the shipping companies to hire mercenaries to protect their own vessels.
Oh by the way I wasn't aware the Marines had Left.
Mentioned convoys but I'm not sure how practical they will be although they had them out there recently through the straights of Hormuz did they not when the Iranians were being ansty.
designeraccd
10-04-2009, 17:20
One thing is for sure: a relatively few "BIG" warships with PC Rules of Engagement will at best (as we have seen) have a very limited effect on these thugs. As I see it, the wrong weapons (a "handful" of big warships) with a lack of political WILL, has provided those scum with a profitable "business" with almost 0 downside. Meanwhile you and I REALLY get to foot the bill as the higher cost of insurance ultimately gets passed on into the price of the goods the merchant ships carry.
What a wonderful world...for those thugs that is. What stopped the Barbary Coast pirates was the application, by USMC primarily, of massive DEADLY force; but History is just so boring now isn't it? :rolleyes:.........DFO :mad:
A policy of 'shoot to kill' (which instinctively I would prefer) would only bring down the wrath of the muslim ummr (brotherhood). The rational side of my psyche tells me that native populations would put pressure on the governments of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE and Iran to raise oil prices to punish the murderous western infidels. Venzuela would join in just for the hell of it.
Can you imagine the result on top a cyclical trade recession ?
PS this is the real reason why the west does not poison water supplies in the NW frontier areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan, to flush out Bin and the boys.
Doesn't international law still allow us to hang pirates?
ivorthediver
10-04-2009, 20:01
Whats wrong with Keel hauling them
Modern hull coatings mean there aren't enough barnacles
We could send them a consignment of Cat o' nine tails and re institute flogging around the fleet.
designeraccd
11-04-2009, 00:40
And people that know me think I'm NOT PC!! HA! Of course, I wouldn't disagree with you Kev! Unfortunately if one knows History and human nature it is obvious that the current "effort" is NOT EFFECTIVE; we should TAKE the WAR to those scum on times and places of our choosing............DFO :mad:
Somalia is a soverign nation whos actions and territory we are bound to respect.
Somalia is actually the biggest reason for and the biggest problem in all the pirate activity.
There has not been a central, effective government in Somalia since about 1991. So no judicial, court, legal, police or penal system since 1991.
In other words, completely lawless. And, if we look at history, piracy seems to always have resulted from such conditions.
It appears that there is not even a way to prosecute these pirates, as Somalia would have jurisdiction over them, and then, no legal system there to even accept responsibility. There have been reports in just this year alone where Dutch and French forces captured pirates, only to release them back to Somalian soil as there were no courts anywhere willing or able to take jurisdiction to prosecute these individuals.
To topic at hand, it does appear to make sense to have small, fast patrol craft on scene to augment the larger naval ships.
After all, it is exactly what the pirates are doing. They are operating off mother ships, using small fast boats to effect their capture of merchant vessels.
A little turn about would certainly be effective. After all, one does not need the overwhelming fire power of an Arleigh Burke class destroyer to engage these pirates.
designeraccd
11-04-2009, 02:09
How true...a big Burke is overkill....except for the apparent fact that they AREN'T allowed to use their weapons! PC for me and thee, oh..but NOT those thugs: no rules for them. DFO :mad:
NASAAN101
11-04-2009, 02:53
Guys!
This that just me or is this getting very old? Two sigh profile ships that got captured were MV Faina and And MV Sirius Star.. Then a US ship.. did anyone hear this: An American skipper held hostage by pirates tried to swim to freedom Friday but was recaptured seconds later when the bandits opened fire within view of a U.S. destroyer. can you say crazy?? destroyer USS Bainbridge, is only of 200 yards away from the covered lifeboat, my thing is this free draft over to it and get a line on the slowing tow it out to another Destroyer? what do you guys think?
Nikki
Just to play devils advocate here, why should you send my son to defend the profts of a foreig shipping company who'd rather pay a ransom that enage prvate security (mercenaries) themselves?
Why should we use our gold and spill our blood just to keep the shipping companies premiums low?
p.s I've just seen something about how they'd been using convoy system recently under the protection of a German warship... there was about 4 merchant ships with it in the photo.
p.p.s. Shipping companies hiring ex-SAS, etc, is nothing new... they were doing it when the 'Straits of Homuz' was a hotspot in the 90s.
Certainly the onus for protecting those vessels should first and foremost lie with the owner/operator of the vessel, it is they who are sending the vessel there in the first place for profit so they should provide adequately for its protection.
If they can't do that then don't send it there, surely the cost of mercenaries is less than the ransom demands and who knows they may lower their insurance premiums too.
Also there is a huge problem with somalia I know, I am aware they have no Government to speak of and no police,courts or prisons but those are very difficult to impose from outside. I really don't think we want to invade another country to put in place a system of government, especially not a moslem country.
As to pirates in international waters:-
Piracy is of note in international law as it is commonly held to represent the earliest invocation of the concept of universal jurisdiction. The crime of piracy is considered a breach of jus cogens, a conventional peremptory international norm that states must uphold. Those committing thefts on the high seas, inhibiting trade, and endangering maritime communication are considered by sovereign states to be hostis humani generis (enemies of humanity).
In the United States, criminal prosecution of piracy is authorized in the U.S. Constitution, Art. I Sec. 8 cl. 10:
The Congress shall have Power ... To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
In English admiralty law, piracy was defined as petit treason during the medieval period, and offenders were accordingly liable to be drawn and quartered on conviction. Piracy was redefined as a felony during the reign of Henry VIII. In either case, piracy cases were cognizable in the courts of the Lord High Admiral. Pirates were legally subject to summary execution by their captors if captured in battle. In practice, instances of summary justice and annulment of oaths and contracts involving pirates do not appear to have been common.
Since piracy often takes place outside the territorial waters of any state, the prosecution of pirates by sovereign states represents a complex legal situation. The prosecution of pirates on the high seas contravenes the conventional freedom of the high seas. However, because of universal jurisdiction, action can be taken against pirates without objection from the flag state of the pirate vessel. This represents an exception to the principle extra territorium jus dicenti impune non paretur (the judgment of one who is exceeding his territorial jurisdiction may be disobeyed with impunity).[74]
In 2008 the British Foreign Office advised the Royal Navy not to detain pirates of certain nationalities as they might be able to claim asylum in Britain under British human rights legislation, if their national laws included execution, or mutilation as a judicial punishment for crimes committed as pirates.
My understanding is that UN resolutions and International Law, as exists right now, are factors in precluding prosecution against these pirates.
I do hope the learned members of this forum can inform me properly about this. I surely hate to think that laws in past years would allow prosecution, while recent laws are preventing this very act.
Am I wrong in believing that, although the ship's owners have the onus for the protection of their ship, it is the job of the Navy to keep the sea lanes open and safe for shipping?
Also does the common practice of a ship belonging to a company in one Country fly the flag of convenience of another cloud the issue of who should protect them?
Q ships crewed by western military personnel with some very unsavoury (but effective) habits ?
With the latest happenings I think the world is waiting to see what President Obama is going to do and will take note accordingly
Mik
There is a long history of merchant vessels being armed and able to protect themselves. We have become so civilized with the rule of law pervasive or the major countries became so powerful that we have neglected the failed state. This has become the major source of problems today from the African continent (take your pick of courntries) Bosnia and Serbia not so long ago, to Somilia to N. Pakistan to Darfur now, etc. We don't always deal effectively with countires who defy the international community but there are tools. We simply don't seem to realize what to do when States are hijacked by radicals or decend into chaos.
I would propose a more radical solution. Let the UN Security Council be empowered and required to replace the government of failed countries and to install a professional bureauracy for up to twenty years. That's enough time to grow and train leaders (talented young people sent to the world's best Universities), beginning with local elections in up to 5 years, regional elections in up to 10 years and national elections in up to 15 years based on specific objectives being met. At then end of that period, a stable productive country is welcomed onto the world stage. The problem we face today, is that these countries fail again and again and again. The foreign aid we send does no good without the elimination of the bad leadership unless you rebuild from the bottom up. In the long run, this is a cheaper solution and more humanitarian. Specific criteria can be developed to define a 'failed state' and once the criteria is met, the response is automatic.
Case in point: India and S. Africa are today successful democracies. India had generations of rule by GB and an efficient bureaucracy provided the stability when independence was achieved. S. Africa took a different path, but due to the wisdom of Mandella, chose an incremental approach to a broad democracy. Most of the failed states devolved into instability over repressive dictators (e.g. Zimbabwe).
Fred
It's a good idea, Fred. But I think that the U.N. would be and is innefective. There are too many Countries represented there that will be thinking "There but the grace of God" and "Will I be next" and therefore vote down any proposals.
Also there is so much politics that goes on in that organisation that certain Countries will also vote it down just because they don't like the Country that proposed it.
Add to that the majority of the people in the country will resent the intrusion of outsiders and see them as invaders, uninvited and unwanted, and will react accordingly. Even those who want stability most will balk at the idea of becoming embroiled in a guerilla war in a moslem country. The chances of any western nation taking land action against such nations is very unlikely.
That does not mean however that we should take no action, we should get the moslem states in the region involved in talks about an international anti piracy court. We should also track these pirates back to their home and put a Hellfire or 250lb bomb in their roof to persuade them and their compatriots to mend their ways after all with no government they can hardly complain to the UN.
...and islamic fundamentalists regard democracy itself as a symptom of western decadence. The only universities they recognise have the koran and nothing but the koran on their lesson plans. In the eyes of a substantial number of pakistanis and afghanis, the term 'western educated elite' would connote 'ungodly footstool of western imperialism' other than Turkey (!) can you give an example a moslem country that is a democracy ?
..then you have the divide between shia and sunni, feudalism, warlords, urban dweller versus peasantry
Yes it is a fudal, tribal and unusual country in which we really don't want to get involved.
Yes, it's complex problem and that's why it's still an ongoing situation after it hitting the major nightly news here.
The US has tried to tackle Somalia in the 90's under Clinton (Black hawk down) and left somewhat bruised. Given they already have 2 other conflicts in that theatre, it's unlikely they'll opt for a 3rd willingly.
The US ship that was taken recently, the rew had guidelines to offer no resistence and do as they were told. No doubt if policy was to put up resistence and if crew were hurt or killed doing so, well the million US $ would be as a drop in a bucket compared to the multi-milion payout the family would get in the resultant court case over there.
Maybe this is what is tieing the hands of the shipping companies re: mercenaries and resisting? The companies are hiring workmen, not para-military sailors.
But it must be cheaper in the long run for a company to sail its ship through the suez canal and run the risk of the million $ lost if the ship is high-jacked than route all their shps round the horn with all the costs and delays that would entail.
And hiring a team of mercenaries for each ship must also be uneconomical, if you ca't have the crew manning steam or water hoses, you'll need at least 4 and probably 6 mercs to patrol the ships railings. And this will be a additional cost on every passage through that area.
Taken all round, it must be cheaper to pay the million if and when the ship is high-jacked rather than bear additional expense for every voyage. The economics of chance?
Would the world be a better place if Somalia and its people simply...disappeared...
Send the bombers back to Fairford and get the daisy cutters out.
Lord, I sound more like a crypto-fascist with every day that passes. I must need help but hey - thats what listening to the news does to you
John Odom
12-04-2009, 12:42
Yes, ecconomics plays a big part here. Yes it does seem that the ship owners should pay the bill for protection. But:
Instead of freedom of the seas and right of free passage, lets consider what it would be if on land. It is the government's responsibillity to keep the streets safe. We don't like for every one to have their own armed force for protection. I've lived where each plantation owner had their own private army that accompanied them as they moved about. There was a lot of both guilty and innocent blood shed there. It was much better in those areas where a strong, but lawfully restrained, government policed the streets. Of course in other areas the government was the outlaw!
The western governments, either through the UN (unlikely) or some ad-hock alliance needs to respond with suficient force that piracy becomes unprofitable. With the ransoms being paid now it is a lucrative business with little more hazard than actual fishing.
Leaving the protection to the ship owners is not the best option.
The diffference is that it is the governments job to keep the streets safe in their own country not in someone elses or in land declared by treaty to belong to all.
But I agree that positive action is required and perhaps the most rescent action by US Special Forces will send the message to the pirates that it is a very dangerous thing they are doing.
A long time ago and in different parts of the African coast certain RN
ships decided to eradicate the slave trade by any means possible
They did it by destroying the ports and harbours and blockade .
The USN did the same at Algiers
Result was lots of political talk and no pirates /slavers
When killing wasps its pointless killing them singly --you destroy the nest
Fred
BBC News
USA skipper of Maersk Alabama rescued ---
Sniper fire killed three ''pirates '' and one pirate onboard the US warship attempting negotiations arrested.
Apparently the order was that if the skipper was in any way threatened then
the threat was to be taken out --one of the pirates pointed a gun at the skipper and it was deemed a threat.
Fred.
Well you must be aware of the French yacht with 4 crew taken? The French went in killed all the pirates but lost 1 of the crew in the process.
Well that's fair... same with the rescue of the US skipper. Play with fire and you'll get burned.
Clio said "Lord, I sound more like a crypto-fascist"
Yes clio.. 'smelly little fingers'? :-) A stranger would think you taught Philosophy to Attila the Hun! LOL
Seriously, you can't have put too much thought into that! ;-)
I put rather a lot of thought (and experience) into it. Thats the troubling part.
tim lewin
14-04-2009, 04:38
Just back after Easter; glad to see that this absurd situation has sparked so much agreement among us that the current position is ridiculous in the extreme. Unfortunately the pirates also hold more than 200 hostages in their home bases who will have to be negotiated for.
Fred is spot on with his references to the Barbary pirates, this was actually the making of the USN as a blue water navy. Up until then the USN had been pretty much homeland defence in its activities but the capture of Americans by the pirates inspired them to send a fleet to "clean them out" which they duly did gaining the rspect of the World. (North African Coast).
Of similar reference was the incident in the history of the Falkland Islands during a period of uninhabitation, the Argentines sent a military garrison there who build a simple fort, they then made the mistake of interdicting two American fishing vessels and arresting the crews. Washington sent a gunboat, destroyed the fort and sent the inhabitants packing, encouraging the Britis to return.
All of which suggests that the present international govt. action, or lack of it, is only encouraging the piratical activities of the Somalis and increasing the stakes, prices, for their success. Being Muslim is entirely incidental to these people, they are aquatic gangsters, they could just as easily be Christian or sun-worshippers, they need stopping with appropriate measures. Maybe we could take a leaf out of Nelson's book and blocade their base?
tim
Maritime Michael Ian
14-04-2009, 10:38
British history with regard to pirates is interesting! During the days of Good Queen Bess, we used pirates against French shipping and vice-versa. According to historian David Loakes our pirates were called Pirates by their victims and "Privateers" by historians! . The Huguenots were the French pirates and operated out of Calais and Le Havre amongst other smaller ports, harrassing our shipping, and we did the same from Devonport and other ports. The waters of the Channel, Western Approaches and Iberian coasts were fair game to both sides.
Our pirates were "unofficially" officially sanctioned by being issued with Letters of Marque! The queen's attitude to these adventurers was constantly ambivalent and much depended upon whose ships were being preyed upon. If English pirates plundered English or Scottish, Dutch, or Flemish merchantment, then they were, if caught, regarded as common criminals and were treated accordingly. If however, the ships were French, Spanish, Portuguese or Hanseatic then official eyes "were usually averted".
Most of these seamen were very experienced and indeed often ended up by joing Royal ships...so the Navy were able to get a reasonable supply of good seamen, especially when the threat to national security was used.
A lot of Queen Elizabeth 1st's revenue came from such activities. Some of the best pirates were Hawkins and Drake amongst others and their "voyages" were often financed by wealthy people in England...including the Queen herself!
Even the pirates who operated in the Caribbean were originally unofficially recognised for a time, but when attitudes started changing and those in the West Indies area started plundering all and sundry and, worse, murdering their victims then the attitude changed and all pirates were regarded as vermin and strenuous efforts were made to catch them and subsequently have them executed.
Force eventually cleared much of the seas of such people...and history has a knack of repeating itself, so force should be used as much as possible now, in my opinion. Only when those who undertake this activity are exterminated, together with their vessels, will piracy be contained. The old maxim of sending a gun boat to deal with the problem is still valid today.
Ian
Maybe we could take a leaf out of Nelson's book and blocade their base?
tim
Where's Superman™ when we need him? Or should I say Rambo as it's more his line?
Ckio said "I put rather a lot of thought (and experience) into it. Thats the troubling part."
:-)
The way I understand it this is not one organisation with one base but a large number of unconnected almost family or tribal buisnesses operating from all over the area so blockade would probably take more ships than we have.
The other problem is a blockade of everything prevents them from carrying out fishing and other legal buisness and it is a crime to prevent the free use for all, for legal activities. Also to be effective the blockade would have to be close in even inside territorial waters for which permissions must be obtained.
Maritime Michael Ian
14-04-2009, 14:25
Part of the answer MIGHT just come from some of the "villagers" who live along the coast! There was a news report a couple of nights ago where a local fisherman was interviewed who complained that legitimate people like himself were being subject to interrogation by "warships" and for them to prove they were not pirates, conversely they were also interrogated by the pirates, so as they put it... they were in a no win situation.
Still if enough legitimate locals were to take action that might be an answer!
Ian
The problems might be that the innocent locals who go up against these well armed gangs will likely die for their efforts. The task of dealing with these people on the ground should lie with the somali authorities, unfortunately there is no such thing as Somali authority so it is the old rule of he who has the most guns and least scruples wins.
Outside agencies will not work, if a foriegn soldier turns up and says "who are pirates" they will be told there aren't any there because the locals know that if they talk they are dead as soon as the soldiers go and if you offer incentives you will just get anyone accusing anyone else as they are so poor and they put so little worth on other peoples lives that they will kill an innocent for the chance of a better life.
The US Special Forces completed it's mission, but rather than a deterent, four more ships are captured. The pirates will be less likely to fall for the same tricks. Now, how do we rescure four more ships AND get a permanent solution in place? Why do we seem so powerless to put a stop to this? There have been a number of excellent suggestions made but it's hard to see any results. How long will it take to get a handle on this? Any thoughts?
Fred
tim lewin
15-04-2009, 04:33
While we think another US ship carrying food aid, SS Liberty Sun, was attacked last night with rocket-grenades by pirates but they failed to get onboard and no one in the crew was hurt, they were lucky.
I think that the capture of four more ships is not linked to the rescue.
Remember this is not one organisation but lots of small groups and their attacks are opportunistic. We only hear of some of the hijacks and we may simply be hearing about these because of the press hype. The NATO personnel say this number of incidents is not unusual due to the good weather.
We are powerless because these are citizens of a foriegn nation and they as previously stated should be taking care of the problem.
The problem most western nations have is that if we take these SOBs prisoner then who tries them? If we try them we cannot send them back to serve a sentence in Somalia as they would probably not enforce the sentence and he could appeal his deportation on the grounds he would be in physical danger there and so we would be stuck with him, then he would apply to have his family admitted and we have a bunch of them here we cannot get rid of.
The MOD guidelines to British commanders is not to take these guys prisoner.
We can only shoot at them to defend our own or other vessels when they are being attacked or are in immenent danger of deing attacked and there is absoloutly no other way to prevent it.
This requires our vessel to be right there and if it is then the pirates wont attack but the sheer volume of traffic around the horn of africa is immense and we do not have the assets to guard every ship.
Asymetric warfare is always very difficult for modern warfighting units even in their own territory so this is a problem which is not going away.
The merchant ships can help themselves not to become victims by using zigzag course, high speed, avoiding danger areas, not stopping and use of water hoses etc and the shipping companies can help by not sending vessels into the area that are slow and vulnerable.
The bottom line is that if the international community are to do anything about this issue then there are going to have to be a lot of descisions made and there has to be the political will to carry them out.
Just a quick thought.
The U.N. was mentioned previously.
As an effective organization, it is not. It is increasingly becoming more and more worthless as the years past.
Its actions now really equate to being no more effective than the discredited League of Nations, which it replaced.
It is really no more than a dodo bird, waiting for an extinction which will happen.
I would agree, the UN has no teeth and so when it makes resolutions they are ignored when they impose sanctions they are skirted and when they protest they are laughed at.
The only bit of the UN which has any real impact is the humanitarian aid part.
The nations of this world who wish to see this matter resolved are going to have to get together and come up with a workable solution and then enforce it and be prepared for the backlash from every Liberal, ill disposed or militant nation who accuses them of imperial warmongering.
What these people fail to remember was we imperialistic warmongers enforced law and order on a very large portion of the world quite effectively and so perhaps we know a thing or two about enforcing law and order.
Kev,
I would agree with your comments.
Regards
Charles
tim lewin
16-04-2009, 04:36
Reading this morning reports of a French frigate capturing 11 pirates and their mother ship i see that this "ship" is actually no more than 40 feet long, carrying two raiding skiffs. It was approx 500 miles off the coast of Kenya. What is not clear is how such a small vessel is able to cary sufficient fuel to get this far, and back. What action the French no propose is not clear. Both the French and Americans are now marked out for priority targets, and not for capture, now after the retaliation by both nations forces in repelling pirates and killing them. It looks as though this is all about to get measurably worse and more bloody.
tim
Maritime Michael Ian
16-04-2009, 14:56
There is the saying that "Those who fight by the sword, die by the sword", the only way, at present, is to eliminate these thugs as and where they can be found. But as previous members have posted we need fast patrol boats which we no longer have or build.
I also fully agree with Kev
Ian
Bring back a fleet of MGBs to chase them down and destroy them.
Or buy some of these Armidale patrol craft the Australians have built and fit them out with RHIBs and Marines and they can do the job.
They may require an up gun from 25mm to 30 or 40mm.
Maritime Expert: Pirates Attack About Once A Day
04/16/09 - 03:01 PM EDT
The Associated Press
RICHARD PYLE
NEW YORK (AP) — An expert in global business and transportation says it takes an incident like the recent attacks on U.S. ships off Somalia for modern nations to realize the threat posed by piracy.
Professor Larry Howard tells a conference at the State University of New York's Maritime College that there have been 1,845 pirate attacks at sea from 2003 to 2008 for an average of one per day. The college trains students for seafaring careers. Howard says this is unacceptable but concedes there are no easy answers.
He says nonviolent solutions don't work and the idea of "hot pursuit" by Navy warships is not likely to succeed either. Howard says government intelligence agencies should be able to find Somali pirates and either kill them or capture them for trial as criminals.
I would like to have heard his reasons for why violent solutions won't work. I do like the idea of turning loose the Special Forces but it would never happen. You can't tell pirate from civilian away from the sea and we've had bad experience in similar situations.
Fred
Convoy, Convoy Convoy.
Convoys work if your enemy is losing the war as the convoys pass by unmolested. That would not be the case here, which would demand that you convoy for perpetuity. The boardings should be more simply blunted by ubiquitous light defense: small arms. I don't care if you hop off a dory or a DDG, and whether you have a knife or an RPG in hand when you do: someone on deck with a semiautomatic rifle is going to perforate you when you come over the rail if he has come to regard the affair as "me or him", and that fact is going to mean that eventually such hijackings will not be undertaken.
Look at 9/11... it didn't herald a return to hijacking; it essentially spelled the end to hijacking because it made the stakes of submission too high. I think that escalation here might also be conducive to ending the scourge.
tone
I notice that our illustrious Government are keeping their heads down on this subject.
As each ship has gone to the scrapyard or has been boarded by sailors of a different nation who has just bought it. We were told that we have enough ships to "carry out our commitments" world wide.
This has proved that they have lied to us, all the time.
It wasn't that long ago, and many on this forum would have witnessed, that we could have carried out this piracy problem on our own. As it is, we wouldn't have enough, now to protect the U.K. from pirates coming out of Calais!
These Politicians should be held accountable for their actions even when they have left office. They may have second thoughts about destroying the British infrastructure and it's military.
How many "second homes" can be paid for by getting rid of one frigate!!!
Kenny Everett had the answer:
"Round 'em up, put 'em in a field and bomb the b......s!"
Convoys work if your enemy is losing the war as the convoys pass by unmolested. That would not be the case here, which would demand that you convoy for perpetuity. The boardings should be more simply blunted by ubiquitous light defense: small arms. I don't care if you hop off a dory or a DDG, and whether you have a knife or an RPG in hand when you do: someone on deck with a semiautomatic rifle is going to perforate you when you come over the rail if he has come to regard the affair as "me or him", and that fact is going to mean that eventually such hijackings will not be undertaken.
Look at 9/11... it didn't herald a return to hijacking; it essentially spelled the end to hijacking because it made the stakes of submission too high. I think that escalation here might also be conducive to ending the scourge.
tone
That's like asking your bank staff in the Lloyds branch at Kingston-Upon-Thames to tote AK47s and defend their till with their life!
The companies have hired sailors and crew, not paramilitaries. They're civilians doing a maritime job, not chancing their life on the next sailing.
I agree that the crew are the best people to stop boarders but it's not realistic to expect civilians to use firearms and use violence in such a predetermined way.
red devil
20-04-2009, 21:42
I would like to know, as a landlubber, how the hell these pirates can scale a mountain of a ship from a coggy boat?
Also, if we (navies) blast them out of the water, there soon would be no pirates and no expensive trials and imprisonment. We seem to know where their bases are, give them to the USAF to obliterate.
I would like to know, as a landlubber, how the hell these pirates can scale a mountain of a ship from a coggy boat?
They either target the pilot doors that are quite low down or they must come over the rails.
I watched something a while ago, was it 'Long way round'? Someone was going from arabia to india, they got a merchant ship (a big container ship) and the crew told them that at night, they must not venture outside and/or open any doors.
Basically, the crew locked all the doors and hatches to the accomodation block and below and that was it.
p.s I glimpsed something tonight on the news about the candian navy having a go...
hot persuit into someone elses territorial waters is one thing red devil but bombing someone elses sovriegn territory is quite different.
An excellent, well researched article in the Boston Globe (USA) that brings up many of the issues raised here.
Interesting that the Canadians, after chasing the Pirates had to let them go because there were no Canadians attacked. What about the shoot first rule and then you only need to worry about returning the bodies. I didn't see the white flag ... Did anybody see a white flag?
Fred
The (smaller, faster, cheaper) future of sea power
We have the world's largest navy. They have speedboats and machine guns. What now?
SEAL trainees on the move in 2005. Both the Navy and Marine Corps have plans to boost the ranks of their special forces.
By Drake Bennett
April 19, 2009
IN THE PAST few years, with the US military battling vicious insurgencies, first in Iraq and now in Afghanistan, there has been plenty of talk about the nettlesome nature of the challenges it faces: "irregular warfare" and "asymmetric threats" are the catch phrases of the day. A military long oriented toward stopping Soviet tanks on the plains of northern Germany and facing down potential adversaries with the promise of nuclear annihilation has had to retool, both physically and mentally, to combat opponents that are as elusive and tenacious as they are low tech and loosely organized.
The Army has transformed its counterinsurgency strategy, moving away from a reliance on "shock and awe" to a suppler set of tactics that play off of local culture, political fissures, and the leverage that development aid can provide. If Iraq and Afghanistan have taught us anything, it is the limits of overwhelming military might.
Still, when most of us think about irregular warfare, the images we have are Fallujah, or eastern Afghanistan, or perhaps Vietnam. But as the recent standoff with three Somali pirates highlighted, asymmetric battles aren't just limited to land. And though the Maersk Alabama incident ended unequivocally in the favor of the US Navy, the image of a 9,200-ton guided-missile destroyer called into action against a lifeboat only drove home the sense that this isn't really what today's US Navy was built to do.
In fact, the front-page coverage of the piracy problem comes in the midst of a broad debate over the Navy's identity - what its mission should be, how it should be armed, how its sailors should be trained. At its heart is the question of just how concentrated our naval power should be, whether it makes sense to rely as much as we do on a relatively small number of immensely powerful, cutting-edge weapons platforms. Some voices, both in and out of the Navy, are arguing that it needs, in essence, to spread itself thinner, to rely less on the might of its aircraft carrier groups and to field instead a fleet of smaller, faster, cheaper ships.
The worry is that, despite its unquestioned preeminence on the high seas, the American Navy may not be equipped to protect us from some of the smaller scale but still lethal maritime threats we face. Piracy is one of them, but it's hardly the most dangerous: seaborne terrorism, nuclear proliferation, drug smuggling, and human trafficking are others. Almost all of them have taken on a new urgency as the seas grow more crowded, and at a time when military planners have to worry as much about stateless threats as more traditional opponents. And in a climate in which the Pentagon budget the Obama administration proposed two weeks ago seeks to shift billions of dollars from the development of big-ticket weapons systems to the unmanned drones, special-forces teams, and other measures vital to counterinsurgency efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, the pressure on the Navy to change is only likely to grow.
"Terrorism, insurgencies, eight years after 9/11, the US Navy is still not built and equipped and trained to deal with them," argues John Patch, a retired Navy commander now teaching at the Army War College. "They don't have a hammer to hit this nail."
Within military circles, there is a sense that the Navy, traditionally the most conservative of the services, is playing catch-up. But it has started to make changes, commissioning smaller warships meant to operate in coastal regions, developing new submarines (and retrofitting some old ones) to deliver SEAL teams to potential hot spots, using aerial drones to gather intelligence and experimenting with unmanned patrol boats, and ramping up a program that gives young officers intensive training in the history, politics, and culture of the countries to which they will be deployed.
Some officers and experts, however, caution that, alarming as they may seem, irregular threats should not be the Navy's primary concern, and focusing too much on them may in the end distract from larger-scale developments with global implications - the fast-growing Chinese navy, for example, and the tensions it is creating in the Indian and Western Pacific Oceans.
Still, finding the right mix of responses for a grab bag of dangers is not a new problem for the US Navy. And in facing today's asymmetric threats, it can draw on a tradition of irregular warfare that stretches back - through the riverine patrols of Vietnam, the PT boats of World War II, and the expeditionary force that quashed the Philippine independence movement a century ago - all the way to the Navy's campaign in the early years of the Republic against the North African Barbary pirates.
The Navy has long fought in the "irregular environment," says Rear Admiral Philip H. Greene Jr., director of the Navy Irregular Warfare Office. "We have a legacy of engagement, and we're very proud of the mix of forces that we now can bring into this environment."
Perhaps nowhere is American military dominance clearer than in its Navy. As large as the 13 next largest navies combined, it boasts 11 aircraft carriers to Russia's one - the Chinese navy, despite its rapid recent growth, has none. While most nations' navies restrict themselves to patrolling territorial waters, the American Navy rules the open seas, steaming forth from bases around the globe.
The size and structure of the Navy are legacies of the Cold War. Overwhelming naval power, American strategists thought, was vital to countering the superiority of Soviet ground forces in Europe - in theory it would allow the United States and its NATO allies not only to overwhelm the far smaller Soviet navy, but to take the fight to the Soviet homeland with carrier-based planes. At the same time, our fleet of nuclear-missile-armed submarines wandered the world's oceans to ensure that even a devastating nuclear attack on the United States wouldn't wipe out our ability to respond in kind.
This mission was offensive, rather than defensive, and left little room for smaller seaborne threats, even if those threats were aimed at the Navy itself. Stephen Flynn, a national security expert at the Council on Foreign Relations, served as a Coast Guard patrol boat captain in the 1980s, and recalls being called in to guard a guided-missile cruiser in Norfolk harbor when the Navy was worried about a potential terrorist attack on the vessel. "They were asking me how I was going to protect the Navy," he says.
But the Navy's attitude changed with the 2000 Al Qaeda attack on the USS Cole in the Yemeni port of Aden, when two suicide bombers in a skiff full of explosives blew a hole in the hull of the American destroyer. The Navy instituted a "force protection" training program for sailors, teaching them to use small arms and chase down shipboard intruders. Ship defenses that had been focused on missiles, torpedoes, and aerial attack were augmented with weapons to take out smaller, close-in threats. In particular, the Close-in-Weapon-System, a robot-guided Gatling gun installed on most American ships to shoot down missiles and attacking aircraft, was modified to take out incoming watercraft as well.
In the years since, other fighting forces have helped perfect the art of asymmetric naval warfare. While the Tamil Tigers are today near defeat, for years they inflicted heavy losses on the Sri Lankan navy with a fleet of fishing trawlers and freighters, and speedboats used in suicide attacks. The Movement for the Emancipation of the Niger Delta, or MEND, has wreaked havoc on the Nigerian oil industry with a ragtag flotilla of small craft, crippling offshore oil platforms, blowing up pipelines, and kidnapping and killing oil company employees and Nigerian soldiers.
The Iranian navy has built much of its fleet around what naval strategists call "swarming tactics," employing loose packs of light, fast boats that quickly converge on larger ships in sneak attacks. And in a massive 2002 war game that pitted an unnamed rogue Persian Gulf military "Red Team" against the US fleet, the Red Team, led by a retired Marine lieutenant general named Paul Van Riper, was able to sink 16 US vessels - including an aircraft carrier - in a matter of minutes using coordinated attacks of swarming small craft and cruise missiles.
The US Navy has taken steps to respond to these sorts of threats. It is developing what it calls the Littoral Combat Ship, a fast craft a third of the size of a destroyer meant to operate in the near-shore waters where irregular navies usually are, and with the capacity to carry and put ashore dozens of Humvees full of troops. Like many US Navy programs, it has been plagued by cost overruns, but in his 2010 Pentagon budget recommendations Defense Secretary Gates ordered three of the ships and set the goal of eventually buying 55.
And, as the Somali pirate hostage standoff drove home, among the best assets the Navy has in asymmetric situations are the SEALs. Founded by President Kennedy as the Navy's unconventional warfare and clandestine arm, they got their start carrying out counterinsurgency missions in Vietnam and have become perhaps the best known of the military's special operations forces. And while today they often operate far from water - tracking Taliban leaders in the mountains of Afghanistan, among other missions - the Navy has in recent years been working to find ways to better incorporate them into naval missions.
The new Virginia class nuclear submarine, for example, has the capability to stealthily deploy SEAL and other special-forces teams using a small sub piggybacked onto it, and some older Ohio class submarines have been retrofitted with a similar capability. The number of SEALs is set to grow in coming years, and the Marines, too, are expanding their special-forces ranks.
Seeing the success of drones in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Navy has also begun deploying its own - a drone launched from the USS Bainbridge destroyer gathered crucial intelligence during the Somali pirates standoff.
The Navy is also testing unmanned boats as a possible solution to the problem of how to patrol vast stretches of water like the ocean off Somalia.
Navy officials are also quick to point to their efforts to work collaboratively with the other American maritime branches like the Coast Guard, with its expertise at boarding ships and interdicting smugglers. Rear Admiral Greene emphasizes efforts to reach out to local governments and navies in areas of concern like the Gulf of Guinea, to take advantage of local knowledge and to try to help address the political roots of regional instability. To further facilitate these collaborations, the Navy has greatly expanded its Foreign Area Officers program, which gives young officers an intensive education in the language, politics, and cultures of countries to which they will be posted.
Still, those naval scholars and officers most concerned about asymmetric threats see these changes as little better than a face lift. The Littoral Combat Ship may be smaller and cheaper than a destroyer, but it's still a large and very expensive ship - too big to be maneuverable in a truly littoral (i.e. near-shore) environment and probably too expensive for the Navy to be able to afford more than a few dozen. A better solution, argues Milan Vego, a professor of operations at the Naval War College, would be to take that money and spend it on a larger fleet of smaller, simpler ships - lightweight corvette warships, for example, and patrol boats that are updated versions of the Swift Boats that plied the rivers and deltas of Vietnam. That way the Navy could be in more places at any one time, which makes sense in a world in which many threats are diffuse and individually weak rather than concentrated and powerful.
"We have too few ships, and the ships are too big," Vego says.
Some have suggested reshaping the organizational structure of the Navy to take better advantage of these smaller ships and the tasks they're suited for. In an article in the current issue of Proceedings, a magazine put out by the US Naval Institute, a Navy commander and historian named Henry Hendrix argues that the Navy should no longer be oriented around its mammoth aircraft carriers, which he argues are of limited usefulness, enormously expensive, and vulnerable to the types of torpedoes and missiles smaller navies increasingly possess.
Instead, he proposes creating a new category of warship group called the Influence Squadron that would combine two transport ships and a destroyer with a Littoral Combat Ship, a patrol boat, and the M80 Stiletto, an even smaller, highly maneuverable craft. The squadrons would patrol the world's coastlines, chasing pirates, interdicting arms smugglers, and carrying out the Navy's traditional public relations task of providing a highly visible reminder of the reach and ubiquity of American sea power.
Such a change would also demand a basic shift in thinking among naval officers, argues Martin Murphy, a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments. Long accustomed to the freedom of maneuver and broad buffer that comes with operating in open water, much naval doctrine isn't well suited to the messiness of irregular coastal fighting. The sheer cost of the ships that make up much of the fleet, Murphy adds, have made leaders reluctant to put them in situations where they might be lost or damaged.
To operate in the coastal environs where irregular threats tend to cluster, officers and strategists would have to grow more comfortable with the uncertainties that entails.
"In shallow water, there are plenty of obstacles, and surprise and deception are much easier to deploy against a ship. Electronic sensors are not likely to be as effective," he says. "It requires a different attitude about risk."
Because of the cost of any warship and the length of its lifetime in service, changes like those Vego and Hendrix propose would be long-lasting. And some thinkers in the Navy are reluctant to fundamentally reshape the force to face problems that may prove ephemeral or immune to military solutions.
Others worry that an undue focus on asymmetric threats could obscure other increasingly symmetrical threats. "I also think we've got to keep focus on the big picture," says Ron Christenson, a retired rear admiral who's now an executive at Lockheed Martin. And the big picture, he and others argue, is China.
"They're announcing they're going to go big, with submarines, aircraft carriers, and long-range missiles," he says. "And that threatens only one major power in the world, and that's us."
Drake Bennett is the staff writer for Ideas. E-mail drbennett@globe.com.
© Copyright 2009 Globe Newspaper Company.
I read more into this last night and the 'why? behind the piracy and how it got started.
It seems during the civil war when there was no govt. in Somalia, western trawlers would sail into somalian waters with their probably illegal nets and litterally de-fish the seas.
They also had 'mafia-run' chemical waste disposal firms dumping radio-active wastes from western hospitals, etc, in their waters as well.
In response, somali fishermen would approach such trawlers and dumping ships and ask them to stop which evolved to them asking them at gunpoint for 'tax'.
... and from there it's but a short step to where we are today.
So we (westerners) deprive the locals of a living and western govt.s don't lift a finger... yet when they start to take their living the only way left to them, we send in the gunboats.
It does put a different spin on things.
TCC,
That's a very interesting comment and really in-depth thinking.
Thanks,
Fred
Well, I think we were all expecting this. The stakes are getting higher.
Fred
Italian Cruise Ship Fires on Pirates By NICOLE WINFIELD, AP
posted: 11 MINUTES AGOcomments: 234filed under: Pirates News, World NewsPrintShareText SizeAAAROME (April 26) — An Italian cruise ship with 1,500 people on board fended off a pirate attack far off the coast of Somalia when its Israeli private security forces exchanged fire with the bandits and drove them away, the commander said Sunday.
Cmdr. Ciro Pinto told Italian state radio that six men in a small white speed boat approached the Msc Melody and opened fire Saturday night, but retreated after the Israeli security officers aboard the cruise ship returned fire.
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Modern-Day Piracy AP500 photos The commander of this Italian cruise ship, shown in May 2008, said his crew successfully fended off a pirate attack off the coast of Somalia. The ship's Israeli privacy security forces returned fire when six men in a small white boat attacked the ship, he said. Click through this gallery to see more photographs related to recent acts of piracy.(Note: Please disable your pop-up blocker)
"It felt like we were in war," Pinto said.
None of the roughly 1,000 passengers and 500 crew members were hurt, Melody owner Msc Cruises said in a statement issued by its German branch.
Domenico Pellegrino, head of the Italian cruise line, said Msc Cruises hired the Israelis because they were the best trained security agents, the ANSA news agency reported.
Separately, the Turkish cruiser Ariva 3, with two British and four Japanese crew aboard, survived a pirate attack near the Yemeni island of Jabal Zuqar early Sunday, said Ali el-Awlaqi, head of the Yemeni El-Awlaqi Marine company said.
"Pirates opened fire at the cruise ship for 15 minutes then stopped for no reason," he said, adding that the cruiser was heading to Aden, Yemen, to fix a broken engine.
Civilian shipping and passenger ships have generally avoided arming crewmen or hiring armed security for reasons of safety, liability and compliance with the rules of the different countries where they dock.
Saturday's exchange of fire between pirates and the Melody was one of the first reported between pirates and a nonmilitary ship. International military forces have battled pirates, with U.S. Navy snipers killing three holding an American captain hostage in one of the highest-profile incidents.
It was not the first attack on a cruise liner, however. In December, pirates opened fire on a U.S.-operated ship carrying hundreds of tourists on a monthlong luxury cruise from Rome to Singapore, but the cruise liner was able to outrun the pirates. In early April a tourist yacht was hijacked by Somali pirates near the Seychelles just after having dropped off its cargo of tourists.
Saturday's attack occurred about 200 miles (325 kilometers) north of the Seychelles, and about 500 miles (800 kilometers) east of Somalia, according to the anti-piracy flotilla headquarters of the Maritime Security Center Horn of Africa.
Lt. Nathan Christensen, a spokesman for the U.S. Navy 5th Fleet, noted that the distance from the Somalia coast was a sign of the pirates' increasing skill.
"It's not unheard of to have attacks off the coast of the Seychelles, we've even had some in the past month," he said. "But at the same time, it is a sign that they are moving further and further off the Somali coast," demonstrating a "definite shift in their tactical capabilities."
Pinto said the pirates fired with automatic weapons, slightly damaging the liner, and tried to put a ladder on board. But he said they were unable to climb aboard.
The commander said his security forces opened fire with pistols, and the ANSA news agency said the pistols had been kept in a safe under the joint control of the commander and security chief.
Cruise line security work is a popular job for young Israelis who have recently been discharged from mandatory army service, as it is a good chance to save money and travel.
The Spanish warship SPS Marques de Ensenada was meeting up with the liner to escort her through the pirate-infested northern Gulf of Aden, the Maritime Security Center said.
The cruise ship was headed as scheduled to the Jordanian port of Aqaba. The Melody was on a 22-day cruise from Durban, South Africa, to Genoa, Italy, returning to the Mediterranean for spring and summer season cruises.
Meanwhile, Somali pirates on Sunday demanded a $5 million ransom for the release of two Egyptian fishing boats hijacked earlier this month, and the safe return of their crew, Egyptian Foreign Ministry official Ahmed Rizq said in Cairo.
"Tribal sheiks are trying to mediate to convince the hijackers to release the boats and the sailors, but it's clear to everybody that we are dealing with piracy that has no other purpose but money," he said, adding that the negotiations were between the hijackers and the boats' owners.
Pirates have attacked more than 100 ships off the Somali coast over the last year, reaping an estimated $1 million in ransom for each successful hijacking, according to analysts and country experts.
Another Italian-owned vessel remains in the hands of pirates. The Italian-flagged tugboat Buccaneer was seized off Somalia on April 11 with 16 crew members aboard.
On Saturday, the Foreign Ministry dispatched a special envoy, Margherita Boniver, to Somalia to try to win the release of the tug and crew. In a statement, the ministry also denied reports by relatives of the crew that an ultimatum had been issued by the pirates.
Associated Press writers Rukmini Callimachi in Nairobi, Kenya, and Ahmed al-Haj in Yemen contributed to this report.
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. Active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
2009-04-26 06:15:22
High quality radar AND high quality crews operating it + choppers with marksmen/sharpshooters/snipers on board to puncture the RIBS or hole the small boats and 1st class comms to co-ordinate. And to think in my day, the mid 50's, we had just one ship, the Loch Alvie covering the gulf and arabian sea and on down to Mogadishu to prevent gun running but still found time to take tons of millet to Socotra because they were starving! They recovered every tin that went down the gash chute and made a boat out of them before we left. Perhaps practicing for the future? P.S. We even went up to Hargeysa via Berbera to give them a hockey lesson in the main square. They were poor but happy in those days. By coincidence I came across a nurse from Hargeyhsa in The Heart Hospital London 18 months ago. Small but unhappy world.
tim lewin
29-04-2009, 04:50
News this morning is that a Russian ship has stopped and captured a mother vessel with 29 pirates; waiting for more data.
tim
Seems these pirates are easilly confused as they attempted to attack a french warship confusing it for a merchant vessel.
The French CO launched a couple of RIBs full of commandos and his armed helicopter and they decided not to fight, several AK-47s were found.
tim lewin
06-05-2009, 04:54
thats modern naval architecture for you!
This just began circulating on the Internet. Sorry, the pictures don't copy into the text. The pictures are of a modern cruise ship, the described weapons and passengers holding same.
Fred
THE ULTIMATE ADVENTURE CRUISE
To The Point News
Tusday 12 May 2009
To The Point is excited to offer the ultimate adventure cruise along the pirate-infested coast of Somalia!
We board our luxury cruise ship in Djibouti on the Gulf of Aden near the entrance to the Red Sea, and disembark in Mombassa , Kenya seven adrenaline-charged days later.
Starting at $5,200 per-person (double occupancy, inside room) and $6,900 (veranda complete with bench rest), you'll relax like never before.
That's because you are welcome to bring your own arsenal with you. If you don't have your own weapons, you can rent them from our onboard Master Gunsmith. Enjoy reloading parties every afternoon with skeet and marksmanship competitions every night!
But the best fun of all, of course, is Pirate Target Practice.
For the object of the cruise is to sail up and down the Somali Coast waiting to get hijacked by pirates. The weapons rental costs are as follows.
Rent a full auto M-16 for only $25/day with ammo attractively priced at $16 per 100 rounds of 5.56 armor-piercing:
On a budget? Rent a full-auto scope-mounted AK-47 for only $9/day with 7.62 ball ammo at $12 per 100 rounds:
Hello! Nothing gets a pirate's attention like a Barrett M-107 50-cal sniper rifle; only $59/day with 25 rounds of armor-piercing ammo affordably priced at only $29.95.
Need a spotter? Our professional crew members can double as spotters for only $30/hour (spotting scope included, but gratuities are not.)
Want to make a real impact? Rent an RPG for only $175/day with three fragmentation rounds included!
Also included: Free complimentary night vision equipment - and throughout the night, coffee, pastries and snacks are always available on the main deck from 7pm until 6am.
Our deluxe package comes complete with gourmet meals and all rooms offer a mini-bar.
But that's not all! Twin mounted miniguns are available for rental at only $450.00 per 30 seconds of sustained fire!
We guarantee that you will experience at least two hijacking attempts by pirates or you'll receive an instant $1,000 refund upon arrival in Mombassa.
How can we make that guarantee? We operate at 5 knots just beyond 12 nautical miles off the coast of Somalia , thus in international waters where pirates have no rights whatever. In fact, we make three passes through the area's most treacherous waters to ensure maximum visibility by Somali "mother ships".
We repeat this for five days, making three complete passes past the entire Somali Coast . At night, the boat is fully lit and bottle rockets are shot every five minutes with loud disco music directionally beamed shoreside to attract maximum attention.
Testimonials from previous participants in the Somali Cruise:
"Six attacks in 4 days were more than I expected. I bagged three pirates, my wife nailed two, and my 12-year old son sank two boats with the mini-gun. This wonderful cruise was fun for the whole family" -- Fred D., Cincinnati , OH
"Pirates 0, Passengers 32! Well worth the trip! Can't recommend it highly enough!" -- Ben L., Bethesda , MD
"I haven't had this much fun since flying choppers in ' Nam . Don't worry about getting shot by pirates... they never even got close to the ship with the crap they shoot and their lousy aim... reminds me of a drunken juicer door-gunner we picked up from the motor pool in Phu Bai!" -- Dan J. - Denver , CO
Come on board and bag your own clutch of genuine Somali pirates! But cabin space is limited so you need to respond quickly. Reserve your package before May 31st and get a great bonus - 100 rounds of free tracer ammo in the caliber of your choice. So sign up for the Ultimate Somali Coast Adventure Cruise now!
A letter from today's Daily Mail.
Why not mention the good things our Navy does?
AS A soon-to-be ex-member of HM Forces, thanks to the Strategic Defence Review, I am getting a little peeved with the newspapers having a go at the work I have been doing for the past 22 years. The unfortunate shooting Incident on the submarine HMS Astute was a one off but it has given the media the ammunition, as it were, to start having a go at all things Royal Navy.
The policy of letting pirates go is not one that the commanding officer of HMS Cornwall made by himself. He works to rules of engagement that are set out by politicians.
What the media ‘forgot’ to mention was that the guns and equipment used by those same pirates were disposed of and the pirates were released in such circumstances that there was no way they would be returning to their pirate grounds any time soon.
I have conducted the same anti-piracy patrols on two of Her Majesty’s ships in the past few years, both of which are being scrapped before their time this year, one of which was HMS Cornwall herself. Also not reported is that the couple from Tunbridge Wells were warned not to sail their little yacht in that area, yet they ignored all advice. Can the taxpayer be expected to fund protection of holidaymakers who were warned not to proceed, but carried on anyway?
The reason for giving the pirates medical attention is a hearts-and-minds exercise devised so the word is passed around the pirate community that the Royal Navy will be fair with them if they board their vessels while at sea and shooting will not be necessary.
What the media fall to report are positive incidents, for example the 13 crew members of a vehicle transport that was about to capsize in the Indian Ocean and the bravery of the ships’ company of HMS Chatham — and the pilot who flew his Lynx helicopter in near cyclone conditions to airlift these crew members to safety.
This is not to mention the numerous other seafaring rescues I have encountered in my Navy service.
So, please, can we have some positive reports of military performance?
For the majority of the time, it is not the fault of serving members of the Armed Forces but of the restrictions put on them by a Government that still sends us to more political wars and then cuts pay and privileges.
I’m not just talking about this Government — it has been going on for years. It’s a good job we don’t have a union!
Name and address supplied
John Odom
21-04-2011, 18:34
I think that most, if not all, of the members of this forum like the Royal Navy. We all realize that the problems with the RN, and USN, are created by the politicians.
I hope that the Navies of the world will be better equipped and given more freedom in dealing with thi pirates.
I for one, an American, appreciate your service in the Royal Navy. which since the end of the war of 1812 at least, has been our friend and ally.
Old Salt
21-04-2011, 19:26
This is a MN view from Michael Grey, mariner, who now works for Lloyds;
Thursday 21 April 2011 Lloyds List
Michael Grey
Thursday 21 April 2011
I WAS speaking to a group of Maritime London cadets last week, young people who always radiate a great degree of optimism in their career prospects. They have a good system of training, where their sea time is split between different types of ships in different trades, so they get some idea of the diversity of the industry they are joining, which is no bad thing.
I left them with the wish that they would be happy in their career — which, after all, in an age when we are encouraged to consider the social worth of a job, must be considered one that is absolutely essential to the health and wealth of the world.
Then, on the train coming home, I was reading an article about what we mean by “happiness”, with the launch that day of some hopeful body called “Action for Happiness” — which, coming along a few weeks after the Prime Minister’s wish for a “National Happiness Index” seemed to be trying rather too hard to attain the probably unattainable.
I was very happy during my years at sea, but never had to contemplate the hazards of operating in pirate-infested waters. Happiness was not having to be locked down behind steel doors throughout a blue water passage.
Happiness was not contemplating the sea as viewed behind wreaths of razor wire. Happiness was not doubling and trebling up watches on a ship which was certainly not manned up for such perpetual vigilance, with people straining their eyeballs for days on end to see whether the small dot on the horizon exhibits any hostile intent.
How could you be happy when standing in the ship’s hastily-constructed “citadel” and wondering whether, if push comes to shove, the pirates will have enough high explosives or cutting equipment with them to break in? And then, because you have read the newspapers and articles about nonsensical proscriptions by bureaucratic South African jobsworths on ships carrying arms through their ports — or pirates victimising seafarers from nations that have been a bit more robust than others and tales of torture and killing — you may conclude that hoping a seafarer will be happy in his work needs to be expressed with a certain irony.
It remains a struggle to keep the minds of governments on this continuing maritime outrage when there is so much going wrong in the world. It was good to hear Tom Mangold’s BBC Radio 4 programme which devoted a full 40 minutes to an excellent analysis of the Somali problem, but too many people in the West remain ignorant of the issue.
I was talking to a group of Indian shipmasters recently, who politely suggested that if it had been 600-800 Europeans or American citizens being held in horrible captivity by heavily-armed criminals, the endless arguments about rules of engagement might become more focused. And of course they are absolutely right. The refusal to give this story the legs it deserves, the liberal breast-beating about “evidence” and human rights and whimpering about the industry doing more to defend itself is — let’s use the R-word — downright racist.
There is a huge hardening of attitudes in the industry, afloat and ashore, provoked by the apparent successes of the criminal gangs and the lack of consistency in the approach to prosecution of captured pirates. Seafarers want serious action to sort this problem out once and for all. They want guns visible on board — and armed guards, willing to use them. They want a blockade of Somalia and an armed response to people who are waging war on seafarers.
BIMCO president Robert Lorenz-Meyer, summed it up perfectly when he spoke in Singapore about the lack of adequate national legislation and too many nations wearing kid gloves in their dealings with the pirates, when a mailed fist would be a lot more useful to deal with people who are coming near to cutting some of the world’s busiest sealanes. He called for a blast of protest from the sirens of all the ships in all ports every noon, until governments who have shrunk from the problem can no longer ignore the deafening noise.
Piracy — there have been calls for the very name to be banned as unhelpful — has been going on far too long. Navies are stretched and merchant mariners worry they will lose patience at the costs of the protection they offer. There is worry about something truly hideous happening, the fear factor is growing — and even the statistics fail to calm people who read about increasing violence and brutality by the criminal gangs who are ranging wider all the time.
And there is the strong belief that despite the valiant efforts of the IMO, too many governments have been failing to take the problem seriously. It may be vaguely interesting that Liberia has the death sentence for piracy — but as one shipmaster wryly commented, Liberian and Panamanian frigates appear somewhat thinly distributed in these hazardous waters.
Too many flags are fine financial vehicles, but lack firepower when such is needed – and it is not sweet reason and fine liberal values in pursuit of happiness that will lance this ugly boil.
Brian
I guess it is easier to solve this awful problem from the comfort of an armchair as opposed to the bridge of a ship in this contenious area.
If we catch these criminals in the act of attacking an innocent vessel that is going about its lawful business then my thoughts are that the attackers should be dealt with in a firm manner that would send out a signal to all their compatriots, but...... My brain also has other thoughts. :(:o
The problems arise when we observe a vessel that is carrying armed civilians that are equipped with boarding ladders (or paraphenalia capable of allowing folks to scale the sides of a ship) RPGs and other offensive type weapons. My own thoughts are that these people are afloat for one reason and one reason only.... However am I the judge and jury and what right do I have to make these assumptions. Are these people trained killers intent on capturing ships or are they merely selling arms to other folks that 'want to defend themselves' I live in a country where there are very strict firearms laws but sadly Somalia has no law so who am I to declare that these folks are guilty of anything?
I served for a short period of time in Aden and during my time there it was quite common for children to throw grenades or molotov cocktails at British patrols. Were these children terrorists?
How easy to say yes, but the facts behind any headline grabbing story may in fact be more grey than black and white. Imagine if you will that you are a Somalia resident sat at home with your family when all of a sudden the door bursts open and in comes Mister Bad Guy. He holds a knife to your wife's throat and hands over a gun and tells you to join a boat otherwise he will kill your wife and children.
This happens in a number of homes until there are sufficient numbers to crew a boat. None of the so called pirates are volunteers and all have been forced by local war lords to carry out an act of piracy, or face the consequences of refusal.
If this were to happen to you or I.... Would we laugh in the knife wielding man's face knowing full well that they would indeed murder our family, or would we comply with their orders? If these so called pirates get killed then have we actually killed a pirate or have we killed some unfortunate person that was simply a victim?
Somalia is a lawless country and until it decides to join the 21st century then I fear this problem is not going to be easily resolved at least not in the short term.
Those that suggest convoys have a point but do they realise how busy this area is and how many ships a day sail through this stretch of water?
What about equipping merchant vessels with LRAD (http://science.howstuffworks.com/lrad.htm)?
I guess I will stick to my armchair and sink every alleged pirate vessel that is in international waters :)
John from the English Riviera
Just when I think I have heard eveything, something else pops up. From the Daily Telegraph:
Health and safety defeats Marines who tackled Somali pirates
Marines who have defeated Somali pirates in the Indian Ocean were sent for "training" by health and safety officials before being allowed to re-enact their encounters at the Royal Edinburgh Military Tattoo.
Members of HMS Montrose's counter-piracy team board hijacked ships using a technique called "fast roping" in which they slide down ropes without harnesses and with their hands protected by asbestos gloves. The men planned to display the technique at the event and were astonished to be told they would have to undertake training with an industrial rope-access firm.
They were also not allowed to simulate shooting pirates, who would instead have to give themselves up as part of a re-enactment of last year's successful Ocean Shield operation. The Marines were sent to a council facility in Edinburgh before health and safety officials at the local authority and the Historic Scotland agency approved the display.
They were shown how to abseil to the standards expected in an industrial environment and have not been allowed to "fast rope" in the show, which is performed every evening in August.
A senior military source said: "Historic Scotland thought everything looked far too dangerous and the Marines were told to tone everything down. That included abseiling down the walls of the castle and the re-enactment of the fast roping on to the 'captured' ship.
"The Marines were also not permitted to shoot the pirates. Instead all the bad guys surrender. It is all a bit sad really."
Donald Bisset, a rope access expert at Web Rigging in Edinburgh, added: "They are trained in fast-roping, that is how they get on to the decks of ships that have been taken over by pirates. "I don't think the council was very happy with that from a health and safety point of view so they were told they had to abseil. Someone at the council put them in touch with us. "We just set up the ropes for them and were on hand to make sure they were doing it safely."
One member of the audience was not impressed. "I thought the re-enactment of taking over the pirate ship looked like something you would expect to see in a children's pantomime," said Ross McNeill, from Glasgow, who took his father, Bill. "I certainly don't think it would put off real-life pirates, it would just encourage them.
"My dad felt it had all been a bit emasculated by health and safety concerns. I remember going when I was younger and there were motorbike riders on see saws and a stunt where they took a gun apart, hoisted it over a wall and then reassembled it and fired it. That is the sort of thing you remember."
Alan Smith, a spokesman for the tattoo, denied that health and safety concerns had adversely affected the counter-piracy boarding unit's display, adding: "It is a matter of opinion whether there is a stunt or not. There are health and safety concerns with everything we do but nothing so far that has stopped us in our tracks."
Lesley Brown, of Historic Scotland, which is responsible for Edinburgh Castle, said all the procedures in the show had to be checked against health and safety standards and "risk assessed for impact to the castle".
derek s.langsdon
12-10-2011, 18:40
Doubtles all media will carry the story of British Forces storming an Italian cargo ship taken over by Pirates, but I like this Editorial from my local Eastern Daily Press:
"A Victory at last in long war on pirates"
Just when many were wondering whether defence secretary Liam Fox might jump ship over the allegations about a personal friend improperly engaging in his public duties,our defence forces have jumped ship to pull off a brilliant mid-ocean rescue.
The Royal and U.S. Navies went in hot pursuit of an Italian cargo ship when it was seized by pirates far of Somalia on Monday,with a happy outcome to a boarding operation yesterday. The key fact here was that the crew of Italians,Ukrainians and Indians attacked on a voyage from Liverpool to Vietnam were able to lock themselves in a secure area and to continue steering the ship while summoning help.
But the proximity of US and UK naval vessels was also vital. as was the speedy arrest of 11 pirates who had been denied their intended hostages to ransom at great cruelty and vast profit.
Somalia still exists on maps but in reality it is a failed state. The worst in Africa and possibly the world,It is beset by voilent thugs.some of them Islamics and some just plain gangsters.
Piracy is the biggest growth industry in the country that used to be Somalia
and riv als drought in the Horn of Africa as the greatest challenge to the planet. At least 10 ships and 251 hostages are currently held. Poor Judith Tebbutt whose husband David was murdered when she was abducted last month, is just one. Piracy flourishes because of poverty and chaos but also becaused it pays. It must be far more vigorously challenged,both in the design of ships and in the vigour of military response and legal retribution.
Set to rise again in the coming post-monsoon months,Somali piracy ruins tourism across the Indian Ocean and ravages global trade. But we can cheer a notable victory and an embattled defence secretary,remarkably calm under fire,has further demonstrated his competence.
A MOD spokesman later identified our RFA Fort Victoria currently on NATO counter-piracy opertions east of Suez as being the ship sent to assist the Italian merchant vessel MV Montecfrist along with an American frigate
derek-L
Rob Hoole
20-10-2011, 13:02
MoD website: Royal Navy, Marines and RFA jointly capture pirate mother ship (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/RoyalNavyMarinesAndRfaJointlyCapturePirateMotherSh ip.htm)
Teuchter
20-10-2011, 18:34
Makes good reading - thank you Rob
Well is the government slopping shoulders AGAIN, where any vessel flying a British ensign ,will be able to supply there OWN armed guards.Will it increase there insurance policy ????? making our goods cost more.
If we had the correct royal navy ships in our fleet[s] we would be able to do this ourselves.
I appreciate we have no more ton class sweepers ,but that size vessel baby sitting a couple of ships,or three.,in convoy around the horn might be most economical in the long run.
cylla
jainso31
31-10-2011, 12:26
You have made a very interesting point there Cylla-the parent company of the ship to be so protected will be responsible for paying the mercenaries that is for sure.Whether the new set up would incur heavier insurance fees,that I can't say.BUT--
When I had an anti rollbar fitted to my wife's sports car for safety purposes-that was classed as an "extra" and up went the premium.Insurance Coy's are like banks -they do not lose.
jainso31
battlestar
31-10-2011, 16:49
Elite commandos storm lawless Somali war zone to snatch tribal leader embarked onboard Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship Cardigan Bay.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2054936/Somalia-Commandos-storm-war-zone-snatch-tribal-leader.html
Battlestar
jainso31
31-10-2011, 18:18
Now that truly is a piece of good news battlestar-what more can I say.Thanks for the nod about the book.
jainso31
battlestar
31-10-2011, 21:42
Now that truly is a piece of good news battlestar-what more can I say.Thanks for the nod about the book.
jainso31
Yes, Jainso31, its always good news when the Empire DOES strike back!
What Book, may I ask?
Battlestar
jainso31
01-11-2011, 06:38
Liberty Call--you included a link battlestar.
jainso31
You have made a very interesting point there Cylla-the parent company of the ship to be so protected will be responsible for paying the mercenaries that is for sure.Whether the new set up would incur heavier insurance fees,that I can't say.BUT--
When I had an anti rollbar fitted to my wife's sports car for safety purposes-that was classed as an "extra" and up went the premium.Insurance Coy's are like banks -they do not lose.
jainso31
Hi Jim ,
just found out why the merchant navy has to D.I.Y ...:eek:
http://tinyurl.com/6bf3yed
No warships left defending Britain after Defence cutbacks
jainso31
01-11-2011, 15:59
I see that Cylla-terrible state of affairs not to have a single ship for FRE.It must make you Old sweats blood boil, because deep down; you will know the shame that has been brought upon us by this inept government.:mad:
During the time of the Crimean War when the government of the day wanted the Highlanders to fight a war for them-they were told to send the sheep which had supplanted the indigenous population in the Clearances.So nothing has really changed.:(:mad:
jainso31
derek s.langsdon
19-11-2011, 07:23
From "Politiken" Copenhagen Nov 14thl-).(just seen today-dsl
"7 Somali Pirates released"
"The Danish support warship ABSALON on anti-pirate patrol off Somalia,released seven pirates last weekend and sent them back to Somalia.
Coordinating with a Japanese monitoring aircraft and one of the Absalon's helicopters,they netted a fast boat contaiining the pirates who were questioned and their boat searched.
The Danish Navy said that several "items" which could be used in pirate attacks were confiscated, the crew were questioned and eventually put back onto their boat with enough water and fuel to reach the Somali coast.
They were released because they were not in the process of a "Concrete attack'", and had not refused interrogation ".
Methinks the Iron fist of he RN and US Navies preferable to Denmark's Velvet glove !! which have left these perishers free to raid another day !
derek-L
derek s.langsdon
29-12-2011, 10:48
from "Il Messagero" Rome December 29th 2011 (story written Wednesday)-dsl/edited
No further word today from the Italian vessel "Henry LEVOLI" following a radio message from it's Captain that Pirates had taken over the ship late Tuesday in the Arabian sea off the coast of Oman.He was able to say that no violence had been involved.
"Il Messagero" does not specify type of vessel but from a photo it appears to be a small cargo ship with a complement of six italians 5 Ukrainians and 7 Indians . The Italians include the Captain Augustine Musumed, a cadet,and the ship's cook.
The Captain's family In Italy say they are in touch with the Foreign Ministry
who are coordinating negotiations/rescue.
derek-L
derek s.langsdon
30-12-2011, 14:57
Todays "Times of Oman": reports that the Italian "tanker Enrico Tevoli"
( a slight change on name from yesterdays "Il Messagero: Henry Levoli"--is today heading towards Harardhearne,Somalia.The Pirate base.
The Italian vessel with an 18 man crew had sailed from Fuzaral (UAE)when it was seized off the Oman coast.-approx 215 nautical miles East by Northeast of Salalah early Tuesday morning.
derek-L
derek s.langsdon
31-12-2011, 07:18
Captain Augustine Musumeci of the "Enrico Tevoli" (described as the "Henry Ievoli " in today's news item, reports that :-
"We are anchored off the Somali coast and the crew is well"
The vessel hi-jacked by Somali pirates three days ago carries a cargo of 15,750 tons of caustic soda--not of much use to the pirates who one assumes will be
demanding a cash ransom.
derek-L--(from todays "Corriere della Sera" Milan).
BlackBat242
01-01-2012, 02:51
Ares: Operation Atalanta To Go Ashore? (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a3c4e10fb-36f0-43fd-bbbf-ec9bd5094783&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest)
The EU is closed between Christmas and New Year, but the Frankfurter Allgemeine (FAZ) newspaper reports that the EU Political and Security Committee on Dec. 20 tasked the commander of Operation Atalanta to rework the operational plan for the counter-piracy mission so that Somali pirates can be combated ashore.
This would involve changing the rules of engagement so that pirate vessels and installations can be attacked on shore and vessel protection teams can operate more autonomously from EU warships that up until now have had to be nearby. The European External Action Service has reportedly been tasked to reach agreement with the Somali authorities to support these changes, which they already do, according to the FAZ.
Participation of German forces in more aggressive operations would require a change in their mandate, which was renewed this month. This participation currently consists of three frigates with four Sea Lynx helicopters on board and three P-3 Orion maritime patrol aircraft. One of the frigates will be relieved next spring by the supply ship Berlin, from which a Sea King can operate, offering greater range than the Sea Lynx.
The FAZ reports that the British and French wish to conduct amphibious operations against pirates is opposed by the German Free Democrats, the junior partner in the German government, who fear that pirates could threaten reprisals against captured crews and civilian casualties.
On Dec. 21, the Italian tanker Savina Caylyn with a crew of 18 became the latest ship to be captured by Somali pirates.
derek s.langsdon
07-01-2012, 16:20
Carried by all US Papers today/this via colleague in Australia-edited-dsl
US Rescues Iranian Sailors--PR Coup.
For the US Navy it was like hitting the public relations jackpot !
An aircraft carrier strike force group that had just left the Persian Gulf
this week,stumbled across an Iranian fishing vessel in distress,hijacked by Pirates,
The event began Thursday morning in the Arabian sea 175 miles SE of Muscat
and involved a helicopter,the US Missile destroyer USS Kidd and cruiser USS Mobile whose crewmen boarded the Iranian Dhow "Al Molai" and released
the fishermen who had been held captive for 45 days.
The Pirates had tried to hide on board the Dhow but were arrested and taken
onboard The carrier USS John E.Stennis.A decision on their prosecution and by whom will be made in Washington.
After giving the fishermen fresh provisions and fuel ,the Americans
bid the happy Iranians farewell,but not before giving each a US Navy baseball cap to pose for pictures.
The US Navy say that they have given help to Iranian fishermen/seamen on several occasions. in the past usually handing them over to the Iranian Navy.
derek-L
jainso31
07-01-2012, 17:17
Carried by all US Papers today/this via colleague in Australia-edited-dsl
US Rescues Iranian Sailors--PR Coup.
For the US Navy it was like hitting the public relations jackpot !
An aircraft carrier strike force group that had just left the Persian Gulf
this week,stumbled across an Iranian fishing vessel in distress,hijacked by Pirates,
The event began Thursday morning in the Arabian sea 175 miles SE of Muscat
and involved a helicopter,the US Missile destroyer USS Kidd and cruiser USS Mobile whose crewmen boarded the Iranian Dhow "Al Molai" and released
the fishermen who had been held captive for 45 days.
The Pirates had tried to hide on board the Dhow but were arrested and taken
onboard The carrier USS John E.Stennis.A decision on their prosecution and by whom will be made in Washington.
After giving the fishermen fresh provisions and fuel ,the Americans
bid the happy Iranians farewell,but not before giving each a US Navy baseball cap to pose for pictures.
The US Navy say that they have given help to Iranian fishermen/seamen on several occasions. in the past usually handing them over to the Iranian Navy.
derek-L
A cracking piece of PR for USN-I bet the Iranian President would be furious-his people wearing American baseball caps and grinning ear to ear.
Such political kudos for the USA generally!!!
I note that they changed their modus operandi; in as much that they have detained the pirates to await a decision from Washington.
Good report Derek
jainso31
You may also note that the last time I heard, the Iranian state broadcasters had not mentioned the issue.
But I guess even there, twitter, facebook and google will get the message around slowly
derek s.langsdon
11-01-2012, 09:12
facts from AFP/dsl Jan 11th-am
Those Iranian fishermen always seem to be in trouble !. Yet another fishing
Dhow got into trouble yesterday as and it was lucky for them that the US Coast Guard Cutter "Monomoy" happened to be passing by and was able to give them a hand.
The American crew rescued six Iranians after their vessel broke down following a flooded engine room 56 nautical miles Southeast of the Iraq port of Qast.
They had fired a flare to seek help just before sunrise yesterday.
The "Monomoy" crew gave them water,blankets and a meal made in accordance
with Islamic law and treated one men for a minor injury.They then took them by inflatable to an Iranian coastguard ship in the vicinity.
The Iranians were overjoyed saying" without your help we would be dead"
(see earlier rescue story when there was a later message of thanks from the Iranian government).
derek-L
jainso31
11-01-2012, 11:23
----and more good press for the USA-it would be nice to think that these sort of humanitarian acts could bring some lasting understanding between the two nations.:):):):)
jainso31
BlackBat242
12-01-2012, 03:37
There has never been a problem between the majority of US citizens and the majority of Iranian citizens.
It is the radicals controlling the Iranian government and the leaders of the US that cannot co-exist.
derek s.langsdon
21-04-2012, 11:13
German Defence Minister Thomas de Maiziere says
"It's just a small additional option".......
He was referring to Chancellor Merkel's cabinet unaminously approving last Wednesday,that "Atalanta" military forces of which Germany is a key member,should extend their fight against Somali Pirates onto land
While the new mandate explicitly forbids ground forces,it would allow for raids to take place on Pirate bases up to 2 kilometres inland.
Germany's SPD Socialist opposition vowed to reject this plan when it comes before Parliament in May,saying that allowing "Air strikes" (like ship-carried helicopter troop raids) on land-based Pirate installations, would endanger Atalanta personnel and Somali civilians.. That thought was echoed in other German papers.
dsl
jainso31
21-04-2012, 18:21
Another snippet
Somali pirates attack German warship, smart?.
Pirates who attacked a ship off the coast of Somalia got more than they bargained for when it turned out to be a naval vessel – from an international force against piracy, Nato said today.
The pirates apparently mistook the FGS Spessart for a commercial merchant
ship when they targeted it in the Gulf of Aden, between Somalia and Yemen, yesterday afternoon.The German supply ship pursued the pirate boat, joined by two other ships, a frigate, a helicopter and a plane.
A Nato spokesman said: "Poor judgment by the pirates turned out to be a
real opportunity for seven nations representing three taskforces to work
together and strike a momentous blow for maritime safety and security."A boarding team discovered several weapons and transferred seven suspects on to another German frigate.
Nato said the detained suspects will remain on board until a decision is made as to where they will be prosecuted
jainso31
jbryce1437
15-05-2012, 21:33
Sterling work by HMS Westminster http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/15/three-pirate-vessels-raided-by-royal-navy_n_1517654.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cuk-ws-bb%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D108385
Jim
Where have all the pirates gone lately?
On holiday to Europe, maybe? GB, Spain, Italy, Greece, France, Belgium, Netherlands: etc,etc,etc.....:confused:
Any ideas?
Don Boyer
13-09-2012, 22:00
...and we would all much rather they have the vacations that the Royal Navy used to dispense to pirates instead. It's amazing how little problems one experiences with the minions of evil when they are dead.
...and we would all much rather they have the vacations that the Royal Navy used to dispense to pirates instead. It's amazing how little problems one experiences with the minions of evil when they are dead.
Amen to that.
ivorthediver
14-09-2012, 07:03
Well Don we could always get the shipwright to knock up a plank , but the Japanese fishing boats keep hunting down the Sharks to flavour their soups :eek:
phill rose
04-11-2012, 15:59
...and we would all much rather they have the vacations that the Royal Navy used to dispense to pirates instead. It's amazing how little problems one experiences with the minions of evil when they are dead.
Right on, when do we start.
On another site, full of civvies I must admit, when we got onto this subject I had to put up with "think of all the poor fisherman blah blah blah", made you want to be sick.
jainso31
04-11-2012, 16:47
The global economy piracy is in recession. Between 2006-2010 there were on average 225 attacks per year. Now it is down to 25. What with the fall of Kismayo, Al Shabab on the run and the continued improvement of things in Somalia.
The regular patrols by big US Navy ships with decks manned by muscly guys with thick necks and no sense of humour the future for the Somali pirates looks grim but; when do you say its all over and go home. He smiled and told me there is no number below which piracy has officially ceased
http://www.seychellesfamilyvarley.com/?p=1753
jainso31
Don Boyer
04-11-2012, 16:58
It has been noted that since some Somali pirates were blown away by snipers from the stern of a ship in the gloom of Easter Sunday, their enthusiasm has waned for tackling targets of late. Give them an inch, they'll resume, it's too profitable not to if the circumstances change. A real drop in numbers would occur only if their bases of operation and their financial support are eliminated and nobody wants to deal with that option yet.
SE Asian, Philippine and other pirates have been in successful operation for so long I don't even see articles on the subject anymore. The black sails still wander the seas -- too hard to root out, too easy to disguise. Has anybody read anything on these guys of late?
It has been noted that since some Somali pirates were blown away by snipers from the stern of a ship in the gloom of Easter Sunday, their enthusiasm has waned for tackling targets of late. Give them an inch, they'll resume, it's too profitable not to if the circumstances change. A real drop in numbers would occur only if their bases of operation and their financial support are eliminated and nobody wants to deal with that option yet.
SE Asian, Philippine and other pirates have been in successful operation for so long I don't even see articles on the subject anymore. The black sails still wander the seas -- too hard to root out, too easy to disguise. Has anybody read anything on these guys of late?
Don:
There certainly hasn't been anything in the Canadian media in the past few months ... whether that's due to the decrease in pirate activity or just that it's not a fashionable topic anymore, I'm not sure.
You mention Somali pirates being sent to their just reward on Easter Sunday ... what incident was that and which ship was involved?
Don Boyer
05-11-2012, 04:12
That was the incident when the merchant ship captain was being held hostage and was rescued. Just happened to be Easter Sunday when the SEAL snipers, firing Barrett .50 cals from the stern of a destroyer took out the Somali pirates who had all stepped out on deck, making the job easy.
I've always preferred .50 cal diplomats over the striped-pants kind anyway in these circumstances. They resolve issues very quickly at little expense. :rolleyes:
BlackBat242
05-11-2012, 13:01
Specifically, the Maersk Alabama in 2009.
Yes, its a Wiki page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maersk_Alabama_hijacking
Thanks for the information Don and Jon - I had forgotten about that incident.
Must admit that that kind of "diplomacy" certainly seems more effective in such cases!
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