Russian Submarines of the Great War

[BALTICSUBS]

Hi All,

thought i would start this one as there seems little on this subject. I have atatched a photo here, any ideas, thinking Beluga.

I have an interest in the AG14, Gepard, and Akula, does anyone know if they have ever been found? I know Bars was, but these other ones?

Cheers DB.

[Antoine]

Hello!

As I know those submarines (and also the "Lvitsa" and the British E18) haven't been found yet.

[BALTICSUBS]

Hi Antoine,

i have pretty much nailed where E18 will be through a lot of research, mainly from the German archives as the British really had no idea whatsover with what happened to her, and hope to do the same with Gepard as when she went missing the British sent one of their submarines out to where she had patrolled. The loss of Gepard virtually ended the desire by the Russian crews to go to sea at all.

Akula is a tricky one, there was a massve storm when she went missing as the British E19 was also out at the same time. The Russians thought the fitting of four mines on her stern had effected her C of G and thought she could have rolled end over end, or one of her mines had come loose and sank her, but then again i read the Germans found 4 mines they attributed to her, so she is a real mystery. I have seen a comment that she was sighted sheltering from the storm off Osel Island, but i have not had this confirmed.

In the book i was reading, which was by a Russian Submarine Officer for their navy on tactics used in WW1, he said they would go through minefields as the chance of hitting one were slim with the narrow submarine hull. I certainly know the British went over minefields, but only when they knew they were set at a depth not to touch the draft of a submarine hull.

Another is the German U-10, from my understanding she has not been found, but there is evidence she hit one of her own minefields, and by this i mean she was given a designated patrol area, and it contained a fresh German barrier.

Cheers BD.

[designeraccd]

Speaking of the OLD Akula............DFO :)

[Antoine]

The same photo;):

[Antoine]

The lost Baltic submarines:
- the "Akula" -- last time was seen November 15, 1915 off Oesel and then missed; they supposed she had overturned in storm and sunk or was blown up by a German mine (4 officers and 29 men lost);
- the "Som" -- rammed by the Swedish steamer "Entermanland" and sunk off Olandsgaff May 10, 1916 (2 officers and 16 men lost);
- the E18 -- missed in period of May 12-20, 1916; they suppose she was blown up by a mine off Memel;
- the "Bars" -- missed after May 6, 1917; she was found by the Swedish warship "Landsort" off Gotska-Sanden (58°21'N, 19°51'O); they supposed she submerged below the limited deep (4 officers and 34 men lost);
- the "Lvitsa" -- missed after June 1, 1917; they supposed she was blown up by a mine or torpedoed by a German or British (E19) submarine (3 officers and 30 men lost);
- the AG15 -- sunk off Lum during a training submerging June 8, 1917 (18 men lost); she was raised June 16 and then re-commissioned but took no part in actions;
- the AG14 -- sunk off Steinort July 7 (or September 18), 1917 probably because of mine hit (25 men lost including her commander senior-lieutenant A. von Essen);
- the "Gepard" -- sunk off Filsand after October 12, 1917 probably because of mine hit (6 officers and 27 men lost).
In October 1917 after the Bolshevik "revolution" some actions were really finished.
I want to notice that main losses and many accidents (I didn't mention them) of Russian submarines happened after the events of February 1917 when chaos began in the country.

[BALTICSUBS]

Hi Antoine,

in 1929 and 1930 the British were looking into the loss of the E18, and the Russian submarine Som is mentioned, as it was always believed that E18 was sunk by the German ship K, but she had attacked Gepard and Bars at this time. I have many copies of diary notes and so forth, but the Memel theory for E18 was they heard that the Germans had laid anti submarine nets after they sighted E18 on the 28th of May of Memel. She was however sighted again by the UB-30 and heading home on the 1st of June, British dates, not the Russian dates of the time. If she followed the course that all the British submarines were using at this time she would have gone over a fresh mine barrier laid by the Germans in April, and these were west of Osel. E18 would have had all known mines around Memel plotted on her charts, and there were no new ones there.

These barriers were laid with strict radio silence, will all maps also being destroyed and not for circulation. This is what was catching them out, as in the past, due to the Magdeburg's signal's book being captured, they knew every location of every German mining operation prior to this, but not these barriers.

Your right with what was happening after the first Revolution, as in the diary notes they were saying the Russian crews were sabotaging their vessels, and of course the Germans laid another fresh batch of mine barriers in 1917 before the submarine campiagn began again which i will soon have a look at. So with this in mind, it could help to understand Gepard's loss as well. These barriers, the mines were generally 50 meters apart, so you are still unlucky, as E18 was, to hit one.

the AG14 -- sunk off Steinort July 7 (or September 18), 1917 probably because of mine hit (25 men lost including her commander senior-lieutenant A. von Essen, don't know too much about this one, where is this info from? I just have notes saying he was overdue, and in the end they gave up and declared him lost. His relative is part of the Deep Sea Productions in Sweden that dive on wrecks in the Baltic.

The Akula loss caused great concern, as the Gepard and Bars were also modified to carry mines, but the crews were not happy and were blaming the loss of Akula on these with what the British called, primitive arragements, so when the Bars or Gepard, can't remember which one, was ordered out in the icy conditions of January 1916 to lay mines as a cover for a surface operation, they said their submarine had developed mechanical problems, and the E18 was sent out in her place, of course she did not carry mines.

Cheers DB.

[Antoine]

ESSEN 1st, von, Antony Nikolaevich (29.07.1888 -- 1917). Born in Reval. Education: the Naval School (1908), 2nd degree navigating officer (1911), 1st navigating officer (1912). From hereditary gentry, son of admiral N. O. von Essen, commander of the Baltic Fleet in 1911-1915. Married, had a son. Member of editorial board of the Military Encyclopedia. Participant in the World War I in Baltic Sea. Deserts: St. Stanislav's 3th degree (1913), St. Vladimir's 4th degree with swords and bow (1915), St. Georgy's arms (1915), St. Anna's 3rd degree with swords and bow (1916). In 1912 was punished (4 month of a fortress) for assault a midshipman. Pardoned by the Tsar. Knew French, English and German. Senior-lieutenant. Lost in action aboard the submarine AG14 in July 1917 (according some sources 20-23.09.1917).
Officer of the watch of the training vessel "Gertsog Edinburgsky" (1908), officer of the watch, navigating officer of the cruiser "Admiral Makarov" (1908-1912), student of the Naval Academy (1913-1914, didn't conclude), navigating officer of the training vessel "Rynda" (1914), navigating officer and interpreter of the E9 (1914-1915), observing officer of the British submarines' repairing (1916), navigating flag-officer and of the chief of the Submarine Division (1916-1917), commander of the AG14 (22.01.1917 - 07.07.1917 or 23.09.1917).

[BALTICSUBS]

Hi Antoine,

thank you for the bio on von Essen. The British officers in the Baltic had nothing but respect for him as they believed he was the best of the lot. He was of course under a great teacher in one Max Horton. They also thought his father was brilliant, and his death was a great loss to the Russian navy at the time.

There are some other Russian officers i would love to know if you have anything on, E1, Boris Miller, E8, Dentre, E8, Pavlov, E18 Polycarpov, (killed when E18 failed to return), will look up the others tomorrow.

Miller ended up in Australia after WW1, and served in their airforce during WW2.

Cheers DB.

[erikradstrom]

AG14 is found east of Gotska sandön at almost the same place they found Bars.

http://www.uboat.net/forums/read.php?23,68295,68295#msg-68295

[BALTICSUBS]

So still missing we have,

Akula November 1915.
Som May 1916
U-10 May/June 1916
E18 May/June 1916.
Lvista, May 1917.
Gepard, my dates show she sailed for the last time on the 25th of October 1917. On the 31st they searched for her. The date of the 12th of October, that must be from the old 13 day behind Russian dates.

Has Som been found ?

[BALTICSUBS]

Looks like Gepard is missing no more.

http://www.stockholmnews.com/more.aspx?NID=4027

[BALTICSUBS]

Here is the underwater footage. Around the 20 minute mark & beyond, very clear images of the conning tower with hatch closed.

http://www.sjofartsverket.se/upload/Film/V...lmer/Gepard.wmv

They also tell me Bars found in the 1990s, is possibily the Lvista.

[CGRET]

Balticsubs,

Apparently the link may not be active anymore. Do you have another link?

Regards
Charles

[BALTICSUBS]

Hi Charles, no other link but will ask.

DB

[mik43]

From the BBC news site today:

Sub's wartime grave discovered


By James Landale
BBC News


The wreck of a British naval submarine lost for more than 90 years has been found in the Baltic Sea off the coast of Estonia.

HMS E18 - with its complement of three officers and 28 ratings - went out on patrol in May 1916 and was never seen again.

The submarine was one of a handful sent to the Baltic during World War I by Winston Churchill, the First Lord of the Admiralty, to disrupt German shipments of iron ore from Sweden and support the Russian navy.

E18 left its base in the Russian port of Reval - now Tallinn, the capital of Estonia - on the evening of 25 May 1916 and headed west.

The following day she was reported to have engaged and torpedoed a German ship.

A few days later, possibly 2 June, she is believed to have struck a German mine and sunk with all hands.

Appendicitis

Following the submarine's loss, Tsar Nicholas of Russia gave posthumous medals to the crew, including my great-uncle, Luke Landale, the 1st Lieutenant, who was awarded the Order of St Vladimir. He was just 27 years old.

The submarine was found last weekend close to the Estonian island of Hiiumaa by a Swedish marine survey company, MMT.


Luke Landale, right, and crew were given posthumous medals
They were guided by information provided by an Australian descendant of one of the crew, Darren Brown - an airline engineer from Melbourne - who has spent years researching the submarine's history.

His great-grandfather, Signalman Albert Robinson survived the loss of E18 because he fell ill with appendicitis shortly before its last patrol and was confined to his bed.

The Swedish survey vessel, the MV Triad, deployed a remote-operated vehicle and obtained the first pictures showing the 181ft (55m)-long submarine in remarkably good condition.

The Baltic water is cold, brackish and anoxic which means wrecks suffer less rust and degradation than in other seas.

There are also fewer potentially damaging ocean currents.

Photographs from the seabed show the submarine with its hatch open, suggesting that it was sailing on the surface when it hit the mine.

David Hill, an expert in E-class submarines who has examined the images, said: "Without a shadow of doubt they do show an E-class submarine and certain details indicate that it is probably E18."

Successful missions

The owner of the survey company, Carl Douglas, said the discovery was the fruition of almost a decade of work.

"We will now complete our mission to document this wreck and inform the relevant authorities," he said.

"We want to investigate the exact cause of the sinking - and to honour the fallen by telling their story."

The E-class boats were considered to be Britain's most successful submarines during World War I.

E18's sister ship, E19, once sank four German transport ships on one day in October 1915.

These were the submarines that flew the Jolly Roger after successful combat operations to cock a snook at the snobbish, surface-based admirals who looked down on their submerged colleagues.

Such was the success of the eight submarines in the Baltic that it was here the Germans developed the convoy system to protect their shipping.


Submarine's wartime wreckage found

E18 carried five torpedo tubes and a 12lb gun on deck. It had a top surface speed of 15 knots, submerged it could make 10 knots.

With its four diesel and electric engines and its twin screws, it had a surface range of about 3,000 nautical miles; submerged it could cover more than 60 nautical miles.

But the Baltic was a dangerous place for submarines. Not only is its entrance between Denmark and Sweden extremely narrow, but the sea itself is shallow, providing few deep hiding places.

Rarely did E18 reach its diving limits of about 200 ft.

E18 was the only E-class submarine lost on active service in the Baltic; the rest were scuttled by the Navy off Helsinki in April 1918 to avoid capture by advancing German forces.

Of the 57 E-class submarines that were built during World War I, 26 were lost.

'Pants down'

Conditions on board the E-class submarines were pretty basic and extremely cramped.

There was just one bunk which the three officers shared; the ratings slept where they could.

The heads - or toilets - were more often than not a bucket. The weather in the Baltic was also extremely cold, with much of the submarine's superstructure freezing over the moment it surfaced.

E18, which was launched in early 1915, was once bombed by a Zeppelin airship after its captain, Lt Cdr Robert Halahan, surfaced so he could go to the loo on deck rather than in the cramped conditions down below.

As such, he was literally caught with his pants down.

Shortly before E18's last patrol, Lt Cdr Halahan was told by a fortune teller that his life was "in grave danger".

So he asked the local Vice-Consul's wife if she could inform his own wife of his death - if E18 was lost - before the official Admiralty telegram reached his home.

The story of E18's ill-fated voyage is to be retold in a documentary, Churchill's Lost Submarine, made by Mallinson Sadler Productions.

Regards

Mik

[BALTICSUBS]

Gepard footage now here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSov0pCPW9I


E18 here. Good to see the Russians finally rate a mention for being lost on E18.
PS. www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF8QcB_u6m0

[CGRET]

It is a graphic reminder of the cost of war.

The moving point's in the clip is the telegraph at flak speed and the other is the Deck Gun pointed skyward.

Regards
Charles