Identify Mons Star

[Paddy]

Greetings all.

I have a problem which someone may be able to help with.
The attatched pictures are ( according to family members ) my grand father and grand mother.
I know that the arm badge is for a sadler and he was a tailor in civy life.
He wears sprurs and jodpurs so it could be a cavalry regiment ( if all regiments did not have horses in those days )
The problem is I have my grand fathers service docs and he died on the 4th Oct 1918 as a private in the new RAF, only three weeks after signing on.
This is no problem as he could have had previouse army service, EXCEPT I have been assured ( from the pic by the P,R,O)that his war medals are,,,,
1914 star, the British war medal and the victory medal.
As the Mons star, or 1914 star was not issued until after 1917 it seems unlikely that a corporal would have been released to become a private in the RAF, especially as he only lived three weeks from signing on.
If anyone can definitly say from the photo that the first medal is the Mons star, I will have to say it is not my grand father.
I am hoping someone will say there is room for doubt.

Paddy

[Joseph]

Have you had a look at the Medal Index Cards online to see if you can find a match?

What is his name and number.

Regards Charles

[Paddy]

Have you had a look at the Medal Index Cards online to see if you can find a match?

What is his name and number.

Regards Charles

Hi Charles.

I have his service docs and he was not alive long enough to get a medal there is nothing listed under the RAF official number.
I don't know if the powers that be can give me a service number for preveouse service using the RAF number

Paddy

[james_harvey]

Hi I have just taken alook at the photo, the man is wearing the 1914 or 1914-15 star, both looked identical and the war medal and the victory medal.

The war and victory medals were not issued until 1921 as the war medal covered operations in russia until 1920.

based on that info the man cannot be the grandfather who died in 1918. could it possible be your other grandfather? or did your grandmother remarry after the war and this was her new husband??

regards

James

[Paddy]

Hi I have just taken alook at the photo, the man is wearing the 1914 or 1914-15 star, both looked identical and the war medal and the victory medal.

The war and victory medals were not issued until 1921 as the war medal covered operations in russia until 1920.

based on that info the man cannot be the grandfather who died in 1918. could it possible be your other grandfather? or did your grandmother remarry after the war and this was her new husband??

regards

James

Hi James.

I have just been using Astraltrader's method of following up attatchments and turned up your post on my "potential" grandfather.
Sorry I had not replied but I had gone off on another tangent, still looking for info.

Can you tell me how you can be sure that the medal is THE MONS STAR.
Is the ribon layout peculiar to the three mentioned medals, to the exclusion of others.

Paddy.

[Egypt]

I'd say that the first medal in the row is actually a 1914-15 Star, both look very similar, but to be a 'Mons Star' there would have to be a bar on the medal ribbon. (Fairly standard WW1 trio of Pip, Squeek & Wilfred)
Rgds,
Michael

[Choppy Sea]

The medal is identical to my fathers, 1914-1915 Star.

[Paddy]

I'd say that the first medal in the row is actually a 1914-15 Star, both look very similar, but to be a 'Mons Star' there would have to be a bar on the medal ribbon. (Fairly standard WW1 trio of Pip, Squeek & Wilfred)
Rgds,
Michael

Thanks Michael and choppy sea.

I can try and move on to other angles now.
Unfortunatly we leave these questions untill the last one who could have put us straight has died.

I supose it all hinges on when in 1917 the mons star was issued, my grand father was injured about last few days of sept to , I guess 3rd oct, as he died in Bries Norton on the 4th.
I belive that he, like a lot of Irishmen, was a long time regular and maybe the then new RAF would sound enticing if the powers that be would consent in 1917 - 1918 to release an army corporal into the RAF.


Paddy

[jainso31]

The authority for the award of the 1914 Star was:-

Army Order 361 of 1919
Amended by AO 52 of 1920
" "70 of 1921

NB All officers,warrant officers,non-commissioned officers and men who actually served underfire or were present on duty within range of the enemy's mobile artillary in France and Belgium between 5th August 1914 and midnight 22/23rd November 1914,and were on the strength of,or attached to units and formations fulfilling the above requirement were entitled to the 5th Aug-22 Nov.1914 CLASP to the 1914 Star.

the authority for the award of the 1914-15 Star was:-

Army Order 20 of 1919
Ammended by AO 383 of 1919,310 of 1920,71 of 1921 and 346 of 1922

Medals were starting to be issued post 1920 some as late 1924.

PS. I don't think the man in the photograph can be your Grandfather.

[Paddy]

The authority for the award of the 1914 Star was:-

Army Order 361 of 1919
Amended by AO 52 of 1920
" "70 of 1921

NB All officers,warrant officers,non-commissioned officers and men who actually served underfire or were present on duty within range of the enemy's mobile artillary in France and Belgium between 5th August 1914 and midnight 22/23rd November 1914,and were on the strength of,or attached to units and formations fulfilling the above requirement were entitled to the 5th Aug-22 Nov.1914 CLASP to the 1914 Star.

the authority for the award of the 1914-15 Star was:-

Army Order 20 of 1919
Ammended by AO 383 of 1919,310 of 1920,71 of 1921 and 346 of 1922

Medals were starting to be issued post 1920 some as late 1924.

PS. I don't think the man in the photograph can be your Grandfather.

Thanks jainso,
That is the conclusion that I have come to, I am now trying to trace the picture as my grand father's brother, I have been assured that the uniform is of the Royal Irish Lancers and I am trying that angle.
I gather they may have served in India about that time.
Paddy.

[jainso31]

The 5th (ROYAL IRISH)LANCERS were situated as follows:-
4.8.14 Dublin in 3rd Cavalry Brigade
Later in Aug 1914 to France in 3rd cav, Brig.
6.9.14 to Gough's Command,
13.9.14 " " Became 2nd Cavalry Brigade
No further Change
This unit was in the Great war from start to finish and all those men on the Regt's muster roll on the dates stipulated; were entitled to the 1914 Star with Aug-Nov.bar

Ref. British Regiments 1914-18 by Brig E A James OBE TD
20th Century medals to the British Army by Major M W Poulsom

jainso31
Always on the Lookout!