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designeraccd
05-03-2009, 01:45
Opinion & analysis
Russia set to build new aircraft carrier
19:28 | 03/ 03/ 2009




MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti military commentator Ilya Kramnik) - Russia's state-controlled United Ship-Building Corporation (USBC) has disclosed some specifications of a new-generation aircraft carrier currently being developed for the country's Navy.

Unlike Soviet-era aircraft cruisers of the Kiev class, the nuclear-powered ship with a displacement of 60,000 metric tons will not carry any cruise missiles.

Analysts have speculated that the new aircraft carrier's design would be based on that of the Admiral Kuznetsov and Ulyanovsk, the last Soviet-era carrier, or even a new 40,000-ton aircraft carrier ordered by the Indian Navy and being co-designed by Russian specialists. The latter's keel was laid on February 28, 2009.

It appears that the new warship will closely resemble advanced NATO carriers also displacing 60,000 metric tons. This revelation has been indirectly confirmed by media reports about the interest of Russia's top naval brass in the projects of France's Thales, a leading developer of advanced CVF carriers for the British Royal Navy and PA-2 carriers for the French Navy.

Her dimensions will match those of the PA-2 with a standard displacement of 59,000 metric tons, while her full displacement will total 75,000 metric tons. Unlike the French carrier, which will have a gas-turbine propulsion unit, the Russian ship will be powered by a nuclear reactor and will have a different air wing.

The carrier's air wing has received most of the attention. At present, Russia has two types of carrier-borne fighters, namely, the Sukhoi Su-33 Flanker-D and the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29K Fulcrum-D.

Su-33 planes based on the Admiral Kuznetsov are gradually becoming obsolete. Consequently, it would be inappropriate to resume production of these aircraft for the advanced carrier.

Russia has now begun manufacturing MiG-29K fighters for India's Vikramaditya carrier, a revamped version of the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft cruiser. This warplane is more advanced than its predecessor, the basic MiG-29 version which entered service with the Soviet Air Force in 1983.

Although batch production of MiG-29K fighters can begin in the next 12 to 24 months, they cannot be called ideal carrier-borne fighters that must be big and heavy enough for full-fledged strike missions.

Consequently, a carrier-borne version of the fifth-generation fighter, namely, the Prospective (Promising) Aircraft System of the Frontline Aviation (PAK FA) now being developed by the Sukhoi Design Bureau, remains the best possible option so far.

The heavy-duty PAK FA fighter will probably have a standard take-off weight of about 30 metric tons and will be fitted with 117-S power-plants developing a thrust of 14.5 metric tons and even more powerful turbines in the future.

The new plane can be used as a multi-role fighter and will also be able to fly strike and air-defense missions. The sufficiently large new-generation carrier will accommodate an air wing comprising 30 to 36 heavy-duty fighters, not to mention aircraft of other types.

A mixed air wing comprising 24 heavy-duty and 24 light-weight planes, including MiG-29Ks or advanced light-weight fighters, can also be deployed onboard the carrier whose deck and hangars will also accommodate unmanned combat air vehicles (UCAVs), helicopters and auxiliary multi-role planes.

Still it is unclear whether the new carrier will be equipped with catapults or a ramp, like the one in the bow section of her predecessor, the Admiral Kuznetsov. Analysts are hotly debating the advantages and drawbacks of each take-off method.

Little is known about the development of advanced auxiliary carrier-borne aircraft, namely, AWACS-type long-range early-warning planes, anti-submarine warfare (ASW) helicopters, etc.

The construction site has yet to be selected. Technically speaking, St Petersburg's Baltiisky Zavod (Baltic Shipyard), which has already built large-tonnage civil vessels and Project 1144 Orlan nuclear-powered cruisers of the Kirov class, can complete the carrier.

The Severodvinsk-based Sevmash shipyard in northern Russia, currently upgrading the air-capable cruiser Admiral Gorshkov for the Indian Navy and building a dry dock for ships with a displacement of up to 100,000 metric tons, is another option.

As there are plans to commission between three and six new carriers, the parties involved must settle various production, deployment, escort, crew-training and accommodation issues, as well as numerous other one.

All these issues must be solved using a nonrecurring procedure, thereby increasing the carrier program's chances of success.

After all it ONLY takes billions of rubles...if we can print "funny money" dollars; why not rubles, too??? DFO

CGRET
05-03-2009, 17:43
DFO,

If you remember what I said in a earlier post about not doubting there ability to bounce back? Well, now you have it.

Regards
Charles

designeraccd
05-03-2009, 17:49
When I SEE the ship AFLOAT with aircraft..I'll BELIEVE...IF I live soooo long!

DFO :eek::rolleyes::D

mik43
06-03-2009, 15:28
I can't agree with your last comment DFO as your first post shows considerable detail of what is required. The Russians are not known for giving out detail if they don't think they can deliver. President, sorry, Prime Minister Putin will not want to lose face with the rest of the world if nothing happens on this project as it would go against his current project of the Russian navy showing the flag around the world - especially in the US back yard of the Caribbean - after all the publicity about it.
Regards
Mik

designeraccd
06-03-2009, 15:59
Even in Russia it takes LOTS of Rubles to build prestige CVs...and with the world economy going DEEPER in the toilet (to anyone who doesn't understand that; put simply it means the WORLD economy is in deep TROUBLE, with not exactly much money to spare...for anything.)...good luck! DFO :(

mik43
07-03-2009, 15:55
Point taken DFO, but as has been shown in the past, Russia can always find cash for defence purposes even when the country is running a bit short on the roubles.
Mik

designeraccd
07-03-2009, 16:37
No doubt czar Putin's priorities do NOT match those of our new ULTRA LIBERAL President and his co-horts pelosi and reid........... I shudder to think of what this world will be like in 5-10 years. Hope I'm wrong! DFO :eek:

mik43
09-03-2009, 16:33
So do I!!
Mik

Blaydon
12-03-2009, 09:07
We will have to see how this pans out after all they are going to have a steep learning curve to operate a conventional fixed wing carrier. Even more so as their fleet has been in decline for years and I suspect personnel will be less than up to speed. Operation of fast fixed wing assets from a flight deck is a complex and dangerous undertaking even for the most higly trained and experienced crews so I will watch this space with bated breath to see what they do. Of course if they have problems we will probably never hear about them as their period of openness seems to have come to an end.

designeraccd
12-03-2009, 12:21
Same can be said about bubba bill's chicom friends and their carrier plans. Really having high sortie rates 24/7 from a CV is anything but easy...and we have 19-20 year old "kids" doing it...PROs! DFO :D

Blaydon
12-03-2009, 12:29
Yeah thing is the us carrier fleet has all these chiefs and warrant officers who have been doing this for decades and can pass their knowledge and experience on, the russians do not have that to rely on. there will be many mistakes and fatalities until they work it out for themselves.

mik43
12-03-2009, 15:55
Agree with your comment Kev, but it hasn't stopped the Russians in the past!!
Mik

designeraccd
12-03-2009, 16:20
Yes, what's a few more bodies??? Sacrificied...........by either czar vlad's boys or the chicoms??? Other than a sub, nuke or D/E; nothing more complex to operate EFFECTIVELY than a big CV. DFO :rolleyes:;):D

Blaydon
12-03-2009, 16:36
Certainly I was not suggesting that the cost in lives would stop the russians from doing what they want to do they seem to hold the lives of their servicemen in low regard and their public expect less of a debt of care from their government than ours. Add to that the fact that their public will be hard put to find out about anything that happens and they can pretty much do as they want. It says a lot for the secretive nature and paranoia when a map of the country constitutes a classified document.

CGRET
12-03-2009, 16:56
I seem to recall Putin did say something to the effect the Russian Navy would or was on a come back. Now, it remains to be seen if this press release is a mix up or propaganda or the real deal. Either way both the Russian and the Chinese have been studying Carrier operation's for years. The Russian's have a head start and the Chinese are behind the eight ball.

I myself will have the wait and see approach on this one since no photo's or a artist concept drawing has made it to the public domain.

Regards
Charles

Blaydon
12-03-2009, 17:06
The reintroduction of long range air patrols and the flexing of muscles in Gorgia would seem to suggest that the hawks have again taken over the kremlin and so I would doubt that this is just propoganda. I think Putin and his henchman are serious about re-creating their military giant and putting him to work.

designeraccd
30-03-2009, 13:32
SUBMARINE plans, too..............

Report: Russia building new nuclear submarines
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

MOSCOW -- Russia said that new submarines will be armed with improved nuclear-tipped cruise missiles, a state-connected news agency reported Friday.

ITAR-Tass quoted the Defense Ministry as saying that the first in a series of six atomic submarines, the Severodvinsk, will join the navy in 2011. At least five other submarines of the same type will be built by 2017, it said.

The new hypersonic cruise missiles with increased range are designed to strike "aircraft carriers of the potential enemy if they pose a direct threat to Russia's security," the ministry said, according to ITAR-Tass. It said the missiles are also capable of hitting land targets.

A Defense Ministry spokesman declined to comment on the report.

Russia has increasingly relied on nuclear weapons to compensate for the decline of its conventional forces.

In December, the chief of the Russian military's general staff, Gen. Nikolai Makarov, said Russia will keep its arsenal of tactical nuclear weapons, which he said were necessary to counter a massive NATO advantage in conventional weapons.

Tactical nuclear weapons have a much shorter range compared to strategic nuclear weapons. They are intended for use within a theater of battle.

The United States and the Soviet Union decided in 1991 to eliminate some of their non-strategic nuclear weapons and withdraw others from duty, including those used by navy ships.

But in 2006 Russia signaled it no longer intended to abide by that decision when then-Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said that Russian submarines were carrying tactical nuclear weapons on patrol.

Earlier this week, the Russian navy's deputy chief of staff said the role of tactical nuclear weapons in the Russian navy may grow. Vice Adm. Oleg Burtsev said the increasing range and precision of tactical nuclear weapons makes them an important asset.


What are "friends" for? DFO :rolleyes:

Blaydon
30-03-2009, 14:16
That would seem to be a good excuse to have a larger fleet of less expensive vessels so that when the Sovs vaporise one fleet it is not as much of a loss as it might otherwise be.

And for all that the cold war is over??? that seems to be a direct reference to conflict with NATO.

designeraccd
30-03-2009, 14:41
Indeed, a handful of SUPER targets....may only make for good target practice for certain countries. However, nothing like building...for the LAST war! DFO :rolleyes:

Blaydon
30-03-2009, 14:47
The problem was that during the cold war this same threat existed and despite the USN being aware that in the event of a concerted attack on a carrier battle group with Nuclear tipped missiles that some would get through, they persist with the same battle groups but with less anti air units against the same threat.

designeraccd
30-03-2009, 21:03
SSSHHHHHHHHH...you aren't supposed to notice that tiny detail. Of course no F-14s with LONG range multiple target Phoenix missiles, instead the "super" Hornet...sure, I believe. DFO :rolleyes:

Blaydon
30-03-2009, 21:06
How many targets can the Aegis system actually fire on at once?

It would seem that terminal guidance is provided by SPG-62 radars and so missiles fired have to be deconflicted as far as impact time is concerned so that the number of SPG radars is not overwhelmed.

So for example if an Aegis ship puts up 10 missiles, and the time of impact is the same for all, but only has 2 SPG radars only 2 can be guided to impact the other 8 will lack terminal guidance and illumination.

I do not know how long this terminal phase is but if the missiles are supersonic and the standard missile has a range of 25nm then between coming into range and hitting its target a mach 2 missile takes 1 min 15 seconds not a long time.

Also what did the pacific testing tell us about how far away a ship needs to be to be safe as they do not have to aim for the ships just for a point close enough to render them mission non effective and some of the russian missiles carry 350kt warheads.

designeraccd
29-04-2009, 12:16
Missle subs..........

Red Star Wednesday
April 28th, 2009 by Steeljawscribe
Several items on the docket today:

If at first you don’t succeed…

From Ria Novosti comes word the much troubled Bulava SLBM 0 will be tested five times in the coming year:

Despite five failures in 10 trials, Russia’s Defense Ministry is planning to complete a series of Bulava tests and put the ICBM into service by the end of 2009.

“Considering that we must ensure reliable performance characteristics of the [Bulava] missile, we have decided to raise the number of additional test launches to five, if everything goes well,” Vladimir Popovkin said.

Popovkin, who is visiting the Russian exposition at the IDEF-2009 arms show in Turkey, said that a faulty detail caused a test launch failure in December last year, and that the on-board systems would undergo additional ground testing in June-July prior to the next test launch.

At the same interview, it was revealed that sea trials of the Yury Dolgoruky, Russia’s first Borey class strategic nuclear submarine, are due to start in the summer, and two other Borey class nuclear submarines - the Alexander Nevsky and the Vladimir Monomakh - are currently under construction at the Sevmash shipyard. They are expected to be completed in 2009 and 2011 respectively. Russia is planning to build a total of eight submarines of this class by 2015.

CGRET
29-04-2009, 18:23
Kev,

The Aegis information out in the public domain say's upwards of 20 or more can be tracked, and fired at. But yes you correct about the Carrier Task force and the reduction in AA weapons. Now is that because of the advancement in missile technogly? But if memory serves me correctly the Nuclear weapons stock pile last I heard was at the pre-1967 level. Again that information is dated!

Regards
Charles

ozpirate
10-09-2009, 06:52
One thing I will be waiting for are the drawings or first pictures of any new Russian Aircraft Carrier.
It seams quite a few nations around the world are in the process of building helicopter or jet capable ships so why not the Russians.
Mick