The Strangest Ship Photo of All [Archive]

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kookaburra

17-02-2009, 09:54

Look, I just don't know whether to believe this or not, but perspective plays strange tricks, and the provenance looks good.

From the GPO, Hobart 1950: This is what goes with it.

Inscription: Hobart G.P.O. and Shipping. No. M12. MERCURY PHOTO
From © The Nevin Family Collection 2008. ARR.

This unusual photograph was acquired as a postcard with a Kodak insignia for the postage stamp and the studio stamp of Ash Bester's Real Photo copyright on verso. A copy is also held at the Archives Office of Tasmania, and dated at 1950, with no further information.

The ship's funnel is huge, bearing testimony to the deep waterfront location of this small city on the Derwent River. The measurements - 86 - 108 -119 - are possibly measurements used by the layout printers at the Mercury newspaper office. Further information would be welcome.

Added on Tuesday, August 12, 2008

You can see it larger - much larger - here:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hC30sWZ-gmw/SKFW-3fDD_I/AAAAAAAACvk/_as1mE29pg0/s1600-h/funnel2.jpg

I'd be interest if anyone has a more curious ships photo:

mik43

17-02-2009, 13:45

You've got it all wrong KB, it's a new advert for giving up smoking!!! For those outside the UK, there is an advert on UK TV which shows lots of fag on their ends dotted around and people standing on top who are being rescued because they have given up the weed!! Said funnel looks like one of those!!
Mik

kookaburra

17-02-2009, 15:09

Good one Mik. Despite everything, I'm very gullible sometimes you know. :)

herakles

17-02-2009, 17:46

Doesn't look like a ciggie to me. It looks like a ship's funnel.

(Stops before ranting about anti ciggie adverts)

John Odom

17-02-2009, 18:31

If the location and building are still extant, a photogrammetricst could determint the dimensions of the funnel.

Harley

18-02-2009, 13:29

It's definitely a funnel, as one can see a gigantic lifeboat and ventilator next to it!

Someone has being having fun methinks...

Simon

mik43

18-02-2009, 14:41

Simon
Being serious, I agree with your thoughts, it is a montage, but a very good one I must say. Looking at it casually the overhead tram power cables appear to support the funnel. However on looking at it closely you will notice that the funnel stays end at the edge of the funnel. But what ship is it, a local ferry perhaps??
Mik

John Brown

18-02-2009, 14:44

The photo may or may not have have been tampered with but I think the funnel, lifeboat and ventilator belong to the 'Blue Funnel' line TSS Nestor. See passages taken from the net....

'The NESTOR of 1913 had a long and busy life. During World War I she was a troopship for the Australian Expeditionary Force, and in World War II evacuated British children to Australia. She completed her final round voyage to Australia in 1950 and was broken up at Faslane. This photograph emphasises the size of her funnel, probably the biggest ever painted in the famous blue! ' (Photo Attached)

'In the same year, two of the largest cargo / passenger vessels ever ordered by Blue Funnel, the 14,500gt, "Nestor" and "Ulysses" which were purpose built for the Australian route, with a passenger capacity of 350 each. Nestor apparently, had the tallest funnel of any ship ever built.'

This entry from the National Archives shows that Nestor did visit Hobart and probably frequently.....

'Liverpool: TSS Nestor (Blue Funnel Line) travelling from Australia to Liverpool.
Embarking at Brisbane, Sydney, Hobart, Melbourne, Adelaide, Fremantle, Cape Town and Durban.'

Any other offers?

Regards...John

kookaburra

18-02-2009, 15:08

Grand detective work John. Hmmm. "Apparently the tallest funnel of any ship ever built' and frequently visiting Hobart. Could my credibility make a comeback?

Here's a little map and description of the Hobart GPO, which does indicate that its on the brow of a hill at 9 Elizabeth Street overlooking the wharves:

http://www.communitywalk.com/location/hobart_gpo/business/7421

stewart mcloughlin

18-02-2009, 21:33

If that's I real pikky, I think I have a visit to make in Burton's window.
If that's the tallest funnel, then where's the water line? She must be berthed at a cliff face and with the funnel so close to the road it's overlapping her deck. Is the dockside at Hobart constructed like that?
Stewart

John Brown

18-02-2009, 23:12

kookaburra

18-02-2009, 23:49

I've been having a ponder on this and here is my suggestion....

As stated in my previous post, the TSS Nestor is said to have had the tallest funnel ever built and did dock in Hobart. At some point, this would have been a local newsworthy event i.e. 'the ship with the tallest funnel so far built, visits Hobart'. To illustrate just how tall the funnel was, a local newspaper or magazine may have published this photo with the funnel added to a shot of a local landmark (the tower) to give a size comparison. This would also explain why the heights are marked on the photo.

I'm sure we have all seen photos of a similar nature where, for example, a ship is shown standing on her stern next to the Empire State Building or Eiffel Tower to give an idea of her length?

Feasible?

Regards.....John

I think you have come up with the answer there John - and again great congrats on the detective work identifying TSS Nestor. The photo was taken for the Hobart Mercury, a venerable and still extant newspaper. And I think the printer's height markers in the photo confirm your deduction.

As that library site asks for further information on the photo, I'm going to pass your information on.

Stewart Forgive my ignorance, what does 'make a visit in Burton's window' mean? Local expression, or a gap in my education? Just curious:)

Well, pondering your question about a cliff-face for a while, from my memory of a visit last year there is a small walled escarpment falling from a park towards the Hobart waterfront thereabouts (the waterfront is a thrumming, beautifully preserved place, btw, and Hobart Australia's second oldest city).

I was thinking at that point that the photo could be either a 'cut and paste job' or a photographer's zoom trick distorting the perspective. However, again, I've now concluded John has come up with the correct answer.

The pics here are

(1) Although not large, the only one I could find showing the GPO in relation to the waterfront (the lighted tower towards the right). It seems too far away from the waterfront for the photo we're discussing to be 'real.' It's a composite comparative height exercise as John has suggested.

(2) A 2008 photo of my own of Hobart waterfront, with the area under discussion just right of the picture/

(3) A series of historic photos found while researching the topography question, which I am adding now for the sole reason that ...well, they're so lovely and nostalgic for ships and port buffs. Hope you all enjoy them, as much as I did finding them.

They're all worth a look.

EDIT: ah, I think I get the Burton's expression. In Melbourne the greatest department store is Myer, famous for its window displays, particularly at Christmas. And there's an old expression ....(if that's true) 'I'll bare my bum in Myer's window.'
But have I got this right - and where's Burton's??

herakles

19-02-2009, 00:59

I seem to remember a Burton's in England. The only Burton I know however is as in "going for a Burton".

kookaburra

19-02-2009, 02:27

If this photo is real, I'll bare my bum in Harrod's window. Then I'll go round to Marks and Spencers. :)

http://uk.archiseek.com/scotland/edinburgh/burtons.html

astraltrader

19-02-2009, 06:48

I seem to remember a Burton's in England. The only Burton I know however is as in "going for a Burton".

That phrase was with reference to the "free" de-mob suit given by a grateful British nation to the large number of de-mobbed sservice personnel after the end of the Second World War.

Burtons were the chain of gentlemens outfitters chosen to receive the vouchers for these suits.

Hence "Going for a Burtons".

Great pictures of Victorian Hobart - Jeff.

Commodore Armiger

19-02-2009, 07:58

I am pretty sure that "Going for a Burton('s)" pre-dates de-mob 1945.

Burton upon Trent in Staffordshire was (and to some extent still is) THE brewing centre of England: home of Bass, now Coors. Burton "India Pale Ale" kept the warmer parts of the British Empire fuelled for over a century. "Gone for a Burton's" was one of the famous adverts and I think (and am trying to confirm) taken over by British troops as a euphemism for dead, as in: "Whatever happened to Corporal Smith?" "Oh he went for a Burton in an ambush last month.".

herakles

19-02-2009, 09:08

Dying was my understanding of the term. Especially in use in the RAF/RAAF.

John Brown

19-02-2009, 09:13

Kookaburra

Many thanks for your acknowledgement of my efforts regarding the funnel photo. It was a great idea for a thread and hope more such posers will be posted.

With regard to 'gone for a Burton', I doubt the true origin of this will ever be established. As well as CA's beer explanation and among others I found this one...

'In informal British English, something or someone who has gone for a Burton is missing; a thing so described might be permanently broken, missing, ruined or destroyed. The original sense was to meet one’s death, a slang term in the RAF in World War Two for pilots who were killed in action (its first recorded appearance in print was in the New Statesman on 30 August 1941).'

However 'Gone for a Burton' was not the phrase Stewart used so......

Stewart

A long shot, but is 'a visit to make in Burton's window' a reference to the above-ground mausoleum of Sir Richard Francis Burton and Isabel Arundell, Lady Burton?

Regards...John

astraltrader

19-02-2009, 12:53

I accept that eventually in slang it was used to describe someone who was killed in action. Maybe it was a free suit after the end of WW1?

mik43

19-02-2009, 14:47

kookaburra

19-02-2009, 15:13

Returning to the main theme of this thread(!), well done John and KB for the pics. Once again the forum solves another mystery, watch this space for the next thrilling instalment of the 'forum mysteries', etc!!!
Mik

Funnels are fascinating aren't they? I never really thought I'd hear myself saying that. Anyway, here's one that's attributed to no less than three different ships on the net, if you look far enough. One of these identifications may be just a mental slip, and I think the funnel emerging from the building is for the same ship as the funnel going along the street.

Although the aperture is different.

The two- funnelled ship in the third pic is just a curiosity, but I'll try to keep the name of it written down around here somewhere on a scrap of paper.

Anyway, as for Burton's, I still think my interpretation of Stewart's comment may be right, but I notice he isn't saying anything yet.

stewart mcloughlin

19-02-2009, 19:40

I think the phrase has got it's meaning in various aspects, but yes, I was using it as regards the gents outfitters. They were a nationwide chain, and would have large display windows on the High Street, thus if you were in the wrong, your 'punishment' would be to show all your glory in a very prominent place. Sadly they are no more, as with Woolies, Dunn & Co., C & A., and all the other names we grew up with. Unfortunately the 'credit crunch' is biting into the subsequent era of retailers now. What next? :(
Stewart

herakles

19-02-2009, 21:07

No need to worry Stewart. Your PM has just announced that everything will start being good again In April!

I am wondering what year he means! :rolleyes:

designeraccd

19-02-2009, 21:11

Invention
Flettner's spinning bodies were vertical cylinders; the basic idea was that thanks to the Magnus effect, small motors powering a ship via rotating cylinders could propel it more efficiently than if they had driven a conventional propeller. These types of propulsion cylinders are now commonly called Flettner rotors.

His first idea was to produce the propulsion force by using a belt running round two cylinders. Later Flettner decided that the cylinders would be better rotated by individual motors. Flettner applied for a German patent for the rotor ship on 16 September 1922.

Rotor ship BuckauAssisted by Albert Betz, Jacob Ackeret and Ludwig Prandtl, Flettner constructed an experimental rotor vessel, and in October 1924 the Germaniawerft finished construction of a large two-rotor ship named Buckau. The vessel was a refitted schooner which carried two cylinders (or rotors) about 15 metres high and 3 metres in diameter, driven by an electric propulsion system of 50 hp (37 kW) power.

This info is THANKS to HMS Bergamot who POINTED me in right direction as I couldn't remember what they were called! Oldurr age...what mamory??! DFO :eek::D

NOTE...this pic simply shows an example of this type of "sailing" ship.

designeraccd

19-02-2009, 21:36

stewart mcloughlin

20-02-2009, 10:24

Strange you should mention our beloved great leader of whom the sun shines,
he gave his regular press conference on Wednesday,

"Dear People of Great Britain,

Due to the current financial situation caused by the slowdown of the economy, your Government has decided to implement a scheme to put workers 50 years of age and older on early retirement. This scheme will be known as RAPE (Retire Aged People Early).

Persons selected to be RAPED can apply to the government to be eligible for the SHAFT scheme (Special Help After Forced Termination).

Persons who have been RAPED and SHAFTED will be reviewed under the SCREW program (Scheme Covering Retired Early Workers). A person may be RAPED once, SHAFTED twice and SCREWED as many times as the government deems appropriate.

Only persons who have been RAPED can get AIDS (Additional Income for Dependants & Spouse) or HERPES (Half Earnings for Retired Personnel Early Severance). Obviously, persons who have AIDS or HERPES will not be SHAFTED or SCREWED any further by the government.

Persons who are not RAPED and are staying on, will receive as much SH.T (Special High Intensity Training) as possible. The government has always prided itself in the amount of SH.T it gives out. Should you feel that you do not receive enough SH.T, please bring this to the attention of your local MP. They have been trained to give you all the SH.T you can handle.

We hope you have all enjoyed the holidays!

Sincerely,

Gordon BROWN"

:p:p:p

Stewart

kookaburra

20-02-2009, 13:00

The one posted above, at pierside...) per our MISSING friend, HMS Bergamot, was:

'Buckau' at Grangemouth, Scotland, with a cargo of timber.

If anybody on this forum knows "SAILS" (gedddit???....LOL!) it's Richard! DFO :cool::D

I'm in a quandry here over whom to acknowledge first: Stewart's wonderful piece of satire, or DFO's identification of the rotor ship Buckau. Exceptionally well done both, and HMS Bergamot for his part in the latter...and I'm still applauding John Brown for identifying TSS Nestor and solving the photo mystery, which I had no clue on at all. That was outstanding.

BTW, I'm really just a dockside ships gawker and I've been too embarrassed to ask. What is DFO?

Stand by for another poser, but - a day or two has gone past - so first I think I should clear up , as best I can, the messy business of the huge funnel coming out of a Harland and Wolff works building in Belfast, and either it, it or some other funnel proceeding down the road in another photo.

Sites, particularly Maritime Quest, variously identify the first funnel as being that of the Titanic, the RMS Olympic, and near sister RMS Britannic. And caption says its the Titanic's funnel on the road - but some details look different.

And the only insight I can give on that is in their various (extensive) collections of construction photos of this group of four-funnelled liners 'Quest,' in at least several instances, appears to use the same image for different ships - for example, images of huge bearings for one will also appear for another, with a worker standing nearby in a strikingly similar pose. Ah well. The funnel being lifted at dockside, which I'm adding, is identified as that of the Britannic.

NEW POSER Last image, not very big but clear enough for our purposes. The funnel's the starter.

The name of this ship - seen here on the other side of the world (ah, it won't save to disguise the location, so its at Greenock) - will remain immortalized for generations in my country, although nothing very drastic ever happened to it.

And look, I know what's famous to us is not always famous to you, but bear with me - some people here use the name of this ship to define themselves, as people that is. If someone gets the ship's name but not the story, let me know. Then again, noone may be interested at all - one never quite knows around here :)

mik43

20-02-2009, 14:28

Stewart, brilliant, absolutely blooming brilliant!!!

KB, don't know the ship but I don't think it is at Greenock, Gourock would be a better bet, over to you KC!

Mik

kookaburra

20-02-2009, 16:11

Stewart, brilliant, absolutely blooming brilliant!!!

KB, don't know the ship but I don't think it is at Greenock, Gourock would be a better bet, over to you KC!

Mik

It's late here and I don't want to deflect the applause due for the very clever piece of satire Stewart has posted.

Regarding the new mystery funnel, there's some indicative clue on the reason for ithe ship's fame in that first post.

I'll just leave one more clue here tonight before turning in: maybe more as necessary tomorrow, and so forth. First clue:

The runner Roger Bannister.

Oh, and btw, thanks Mik - the location here doesn't affect things.

kookaburra

21-02-2009, 01:46

Here I am back the next day and no guesses for my new mystery funnel, so - clearly time for some more clues (which should be staggered, but I'm not sure whether I am just playing with myself here) .

Those I have given thus far are:

1. some people use the name of this ship to define themselves, as people. In a sense I mean there are places where its name has passed into the language.

2. The runner Roger Bannister.

The new clues.

3. An Army court martial.

4. Bob Hoskins

5. There may be other forms of life, but in the end the aliens might be termed friendly.

herakles

21-02-2009, 01:58

I think you might be! :p

Who the hell is Bob Hoskins?

kookaburra

21-02-2009, 02:07

I think you might be! :p

Who the hell is Bob Hoskins?

Well, I didn't want to get too obvious with the clues (something as yet I think I can't be accused of).

But Herk, I thought YOU of all people would know this ship - in fact I was going to put up a request that you not blow the whistle on it too early.

Bob Hoskins is a British actor (the landmark Pennies From Heaven TV mini-series).

I think I'll give those on the nether side of the world one more chance to naming the ship, or give the answer late tonight.

herakles

21-02-2009, 02:12

I can't find my whistle! Seriously, I've no idea.

kookaburra

21-02-2009, 02:43

I can't find my whistle! Seriously, I've no idea.

With that admission of defeat, I'll PM you with a further picture clue and then the answer I'm preparing after giving the U.K. forumers one more day's chance at it.

You've subliminally known about this ship for decades, but it's a bit harder for them. In a broad public sense they only began to learn the story of this ship (a great story btw) in 2004.

herakles

21-02-2009, 02:46

I await the PM with baited breath! :o

Now I am really intrigued.

kookaburra

21-02-2009, 08:12

Good morning U.K. sleepy-heads. Hmmm, as you would see from the preceding few posts, while you were resting Herakles has been tried and found wanting on the new mystery funnel poser, which - having been POM-ed the answer, he finds had simply slipped by his generally encylopaedic knowledge on Australia-linked ephemera.

Therefore, I feel it only fair to offer you more help.

Further clues:

6. What happened on one voyage of this ship was so awful that the British Home Office placed a 100-year ban on the release of case records.

7. Yet it was an extremely popular vessel in other ways, both with troops that sailed on her, and, much later, with thousands of British schoolchildren.

8. It also had a connection with British actor Warren Mitchell, and with Roberts Restaurant, a once very well-known kosher eatery at 17 Commercial Road near Gardiner's Corner, in the heart of London's crowded East End.

herakles

21-02-2009, 09:02

I'm older and wiser now. :o

John Brown

21-02-2009, 13:41

KB

I think it's.....

The Dunera?

As in the 'Dunera Boys' and 'Enemy Aliens' and with Bannisters coach having been one of her passengers.

Regards...John

kookaburra

21-02-2009, 14:08

John, I'm delighted - you've done it again! You have considerable powers of deducation.

For those who may not be familar with it, here is the Dunera Story (and don't fail to glance at the amazing list of people who were on the ship, and their achievements afterwards).

Congrats again John. You're the star of this thread.

The Dunera and her Boys

The 11,161 tons gross SS Dunera was built by Barclay Curle and Co in Glasgow and handed over to the British-India Steam Navigation Co in 1937. During WW11 she saw extensive service as HMT Dunera and carried New Zealand troops to Egypt.

In July-August 1940, however, a 57-day voyage from Liverpool to Australia became what Wiki terms as ‘one of the most notorious events in British maritime history.’

The ship, with a maximum capacity of 1500 including crew on this occasion carried around 3000 people - 2036 young German and Austrian Jews who had fled Europe, but found themselves classified as ‘enemy aliens’ in Britain, and 451 German and Italian PoWs, plus a contingent of some 350 British home guard troops.

Conditions on the ship were a nightmare. Ill-trained and led, the guards looted the internee’s possessions and beat them frequently. It is sometimes said they were referred to as ‘Jewish swine,’ but the guards generally failed to distinguish between the European refugees and Nazi fanatics on the ship. On arrival in Australia the physical condition of the internees was so bad that the first Australian to board the ship, Army medical officer Alan Frost filed a report that led to the officer in charge of the British guard unit, Colonel William Scott, being court-martialed.

The treatment of internees revealed by the case was so scandalous that the British Home Office placed a 100-year-ban on the release of the records.

In Australia the young Jewish refugees were at first held in internment camps at Hay and Orange in NSW, and later Tatura, Victoria, among PoWs and others with pro-Nazi sympathies. But they maintained active intellectual and cultural lives throughout, and one later said their situation was mild compared to what was happening in Europe. In 1942, after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, the Australian government released them, coining a new term that designated them as ‘friendly’ rather than ‘enemy’ aliens (one of the clues). Hundreds joined the Australian Army.

After the war, they were offered residency, and while about half of the young European refugees returned to Britain, 1000 or so chose to remain in Australia. A considerable number of ‘The Dunera Boys,’ as they were known, became very prominent in Australian life, and elsewhere. There have been many books, TV documentaries in Australia, the U.K. (in 2004) and Germany, a 1985 TV mini-series and film made about them. 'The Dunera Boys’, starring the British actors Bob Hoskins (‘Pennies From Heaven’) and Warren Mitchell was widely acclaimed.

There is now a ‘Dunera Boys’ museum at Hay, the site of their first main internment camp.

The Dunera Boys included:

Economist Professor Fred Gruen, who was a major figure in the Australian Academy of Social Sciences, and whom had considerable input on national economic policy.

Professor Henry Mayer, a political scientist, now also deceased, but once an old friend of mine. He wrote a landmark textbook on the Australian Press and was a major player in national media studies and policy.

Professor Hugo Wolf, political scientist

Franz Stampfl , athletics trainer, who coached the British four-minute-mile record breaker Roger Bannister (another of my clues).

Wolf Klaphanke, who later invented synthetic camphor.

Helmut Newton (originally Ernst Heidrich Frollick) who became a world-renowned photographer.

Henry Talbot, Adi Felder, and Hans Axel also became widely celebrated photographers.

Fred Lowen, furniture designer and artist, who founded the well-known Fler furniture
brand in Australia.

Sasha Wiener, textiles manufacturer and father of Julian Wiener, the first and only Jewish cricketer ever to play in Tests for Australia.

Henry Lippmann, writer on the Australia immigration experience.

Composer Felix Werder.

Actor Max Bruch

Others who achieved fame were anthropologist Leonhard Adam, artist Ludwig Hirschfeld-Mac, who'd taught at the Bauhaus, art historian Franz Philipp, film-maker Kurt Sternburg, physicist Hans Kronenburger, judge Stephen Strauss and mathematician Felix Behrend

Frederick Schonbach, Erwin Fabian and Klaus Friedeberger worked as cartoonists and illustrators, for the Australasian Post, which had a celebrated art department in the early postwar period.

All this from a group of 2000 people, mostly I think the 1000 who stayed in Australia?. Amazing.

The question of British and allied treatment of European Jewish refugees is a much bigger subject, but ‘The Dunera Boys’ became an enormous plus for Australia, and the generic name by which they became known entered the language.

I have less info on those that returned to the U.K., but in the hardships of immediate postwar Britain, my impression is that their prospects may have been more limited.
I’ve mentioned Franz Stampfl. Three companions who returned, Robert Aufrichtig, Arthur Spitz, and Joseph Nissenfeld combined to make a great success of Roberts Restaurant, a kosher eatery at 17 Commercial Road near Gardiner’s Corner in the heart of
London’s East End.

.

HMT Dunera also went on to other things: she was at the invasion of Madagascar in September 1942; the Sicily landings in July 1943; in September 1944 she carried headquarters staff for the US 7th Army’s invasion of Southern France; and transported occupation forces to Japan later.

In 1960 she was refitted by Palmers at Hebbern-on-Tyne as a pioneer educational cruise ship in which role she is seen in our 1963 funnel poser pic in Scotland. Over seven years, at least 10,000 British schoolchildren went on her cruises.

She was sold for scrapping in Bilbao in 1967.

That's it. And John Brown does it again -a very worthy winner. The third pic here is one of the many 'Dunera Boys reunions, 1997 I think - although I've seen other dates on the same pic.

herakles

21-02-2009, 18:49

I'm very impressed John. I confess to complete ignorance of this tragic story. But I easily recognise the names listed above. Felix Werder needed a bit more K!

If only this was a unique story. But alas it isn't. I immediately thought of the frightful business when England shipped hundreds of institutionalised children to the Dominions, often without telling their parents or telling them that they were dead. Barnados has a lot to answer for.

To make matters worse, some of the children sent to Australia went to a Roman Catholic institution in Western Australia where many were shockingly abused by priests. The story was well told in the TV series "The Leaving Of Liverpool" which I fear may now not be obtainable.

As with the Dunera Boys, I am aware that quite a few of the children did well in later life. But I don't have details.

John Brown

21-02-2009, 19:45

KB & Herakles

Many thanks for your congratulations. I'd never have got it without the clues.

A very sad story. I did see 'The Leaving of Liverpool' and was shocked by what I learnt from it.

John

kookaburra

27-02-2009, 00:53

A big ship glides in stately progress up the Thames High Street to the East India Docks, as a group of children play in Saville Street in Tilbury...

Well, I hadn't consciously set out to find another funnel poser, but happened upon this evocative image , and felt it had some similar qualities to the first pic-post in this thread. Unfortunately I couldn't find it large, so anyone interested in identifying her may have to use the 'zoom' facility.

On this occasion I'm pretty sure the image is totally 'real,' and not the composite exposed by John Brown's excellent detective work on the first pic in the thread.

I don't have a big story to go with this ship, although she was pretty grand - too grand, as it turned out, to be entirely suitable for use as a troopship around the period this was taken. The other clues I'll offer here are the first word in her two-word name is a sort of reference to the countries she visited on her regular runs, and the second word is a reference to the personage who looked over them.

There is also a 'something like' reference in this post to the shipping company she served, which I am sure will also suit your attempt to identify her. Follow the words and not the money.

Good luck to the thousands whom I'm sure will now be striving to identify this ship from her funnels.

Commodore Armiger

27-02-2009, 07:43

MS Dominion Monarch?

kookaburra

27-02-2009, 08:52

Well done, it is the Shaw Savill Line's Dominion Monarch.

Word clues to the shipping company were 'sure,' and 'suit' pointing to 'Saville' Street.

herakles

27-02-2009, 09:02

I was going to say that! :D

kookaburra

27-02-2009, 09:29

I was going to say that! :D

Ah well, since we're all gentlemen around here and the 'honor system' applies, we'll accept your chit and you get second prize.

kookaburra

27-02-2009, 12:56

Well, that went off quickly. Here's today's strange ship photo.

And information? Looks like someone's in for a surprise!

That's the clue, btw.

John Brown

27-02-2009, 15:23

KB

This is a picture of the Russian Foxtrot Class diesel electric sub B-39. She is now part of the San Diego Maritime Museum.

Here is another view....

Regards...John

herakles

27-02-2009, 16:40

Hmmm. I wasn't going to say that! ;)

Maritime Michael Ian

27-02-2009, 17:07

Re Burton's.... I thought it was a reference to the Burton's overcoat or mackintosh... one went to Burton's to get good clothing!... but I guess it has been lost in the mists of time!!

Re Flettners Rotors.... wern't the ship(s) called Rotor Ships??? don't know how many were built though.... I thought only one as an experiment!

Ian:)

TACKLINE

27-02-2009, 22:18

Re 'Gone for a Burton'. I always understood it meant the serviceman had been killed,and he'd gone to be measured for a wooden overcoat.
Tackline.

kookaburra

27-02-2009, 22:34

KB

This is a picture of the Russian Foxtrot Class diesel electric sub B-39. She is now part of the San Diego Maritime Museum.

Here is another view....

Regards...John

Well done yet again John. The submarine is the Russian B-39, and the sail training ship precariously in front is a replica of a British 18thC frigate originally named 'Rose' but which the San Diego maritime museum has as 'HMS' Surprise. She was used in the film 'Master and Commander.' Mine was a flickr photo posted by John Frazier.

Back to Burton's, although if you read back through the thread I feel that conversation is beginning to come full circle. Stewart appears to have originally used the expression here in relation to the shop windows of the men's outfitters in Edinburgh.

herakles

27-02-2009, 22:50

I understand that for the film 'Master and Commander' two exact frigates were built. One never sailed, the other did. The actors were all required to learn precisely how to run the ship.

kookaburra

27-02-2009, 23:41

I always thought that the 2003 'Master and Commander: The Far Side of The World,' was to be the start of a series of films based on Patrick O'Brian's hugely popular novels, and was looking forward to the next. But from Director Peter Weir's comments reported here on Wikipedia it sounds like that won't be the case. Pity. It appears gross takings of $95m odd wasn't enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_and_Commander_(movie)

herakles

27-02-2009, 23:47

We were all hoping that and have been so disappointed that none will follow.

I'll not forget the scene when Crowe plays Waltzing Matilda on his violin to an admiring Maturin!

jonti

04-03-2009, 05:32

'Dominion Monarch' was in her day, one of the largest tonnage vessels powered by diesel engines. My uncle was the staff captain on her during WW2when she sailed between UK and Australia many times without escort and avoided any trouble. Apparently she was too fast a target for Uboats. Rob T

BECA@CLEAR.NET.NZ

09-03-2009, 18:29

Well, that went off quickly. Here's today's strange ship photo.

And information? Looks like someone's in for a surprise!

That's the clue, btw.

A great picture, full of interest. What is the sailing ship please?

kookaburra

10-03-2009, 00:31

A great picture, full of interest. What is the sailing ship please?

Beca, the sailing ship was discussed in one of the posts below: it's the HMS Surprise replica of an 18th century British frigate - built for the 2003 film 'Master and Commander,' and now berthed at the San Diego Maritime Museum, as is the submarine.

kookaburra

26-03-2009, 13:40

aufrichtig

31-03-2009, 10:48

kookaburra

02-04-2009, 21:35

Hi:

Thanks to those of you who mentioned my father, Robert Aufrichtig, who was among those despatched to Australia on board the Dunera.

Thanks, too, for the references to Roberts Restaurant, which was owned and run by my parents until the local council issued a compulsory purchase order for a new ring road scheme.

My father spoke little about his Dunera experience. I have recorded that which I know on my website at http://www.aufrichtigs.com/01-Holocaust/Dunera/Robert_Aufrichtig_-_Dunera_Internee.htm. If anyone has anything further to add I'd be pleased to include it.

Thanks
Ronny

PS: Family name used to be Aufrichtig, not Autrichtig.

Ronny, very delighted to hear from you, and thanks for taking the effort to sign up and let us know you had read the item. I've edited in a correction on the name spelling.

What a truly extraordinary group of people those refugees who went on the Dunera were. Best wishes, K.:)

John Brown

02-04-2009, 22:15

Any theories people? I must say I have no idea - and neither does freeparking who posted this on flickr, so there's no point looking there.

The Elizabethan ship looks quite real, doesn't it? It must be in California...I wonder if William Randolph Hearst ever had a galleon made for himself?

KB

My guess is that the ship is a replica of Columbus's 'Santa Maria'. Your suggestion that the photo may have been taken in California might be correct as the city of Santa Maria is near the coast of that state. Perhaps the ship was in the city that bears its name????

Regards...John

kookaburra

03-04-2009, 18:34

On the basis of the model John, I'm prepared to award this one to you. A replica of the 'Santa Maria' it is, unless anyone wants to argue otherwise. Congratulations, you've done it yet again!

Beautiful model, btw.

kookaburra

04-04-2009, 13:40

Question: Did the RAn"s Grumman Trackers Really Burn?

On December 5, 1976, Australians awoke to the shocking news that almost the entire fleet of the Royal Australian Navy's Grumman Tracker anti-submarine aircraft had been destroyed in a massive hangar fire at HMAS Albatross, the RAN Naval Air Station at Nowra, on the NSW South Coast.

They were also told that a sailor was in the brig, nursing an almight hangover.

But did this really happen?

In the months that followed, rumors began to circulate that around the same time members of the Pitjatjanjara tribe in Central Australia had seen naval aircraft circling Uluru (Ayers Rock), waggling their wings and generally behaving in a disoriented fashion. They were last seen flying in a Westerly direction into the notorious Simpson desert.

For those with an American sense of geography, I have provided a map, and just want to say that Uluru is about 2000 kilometres inland from HMAS Albatross, and almost 1000 from the nearest coast.

In short, there are absolutely no submarines out there!

I'll leave it up to you to advance any theories. For the moment, I'm tentatively captioning the first photograph here 'LOST.';)

culverin

22-08-2011, 19:39

Not certain how the # above got here, or why.
Either way, there were 12 trackers involved in this big bonfire in H hangar that night of 4-5 Dec 1976, but not all were destroyed as some were pulled clear whilst burning and salved.
The planes were from VS816 and VS851 squadrons, the VS denoted a fixed wing anti sub squadron.
What seems peculiar is the haste in which the lost planes were replaced and the deal done with the USA for their supply.