View Full Version : ENGLISH........
designeraccd
13-02-2009, 12:52
This is a newspaper article written by a old High School friend who was an ENGLISH teacher in High School. It might be of interest? I might add that he-usually-finds my uhh..."creative" use of words amusing, which is how they are meant! DFO
Denny, a high school buddy who now lives in Elkhart, Indiana, sent me an email the other day with the message “What can one say?” Attached was a photo of a hand-written sign on the door of what I assume is a butcher shop. It reads : SORRY WE CLOSED WE OUT OF MEET. Maybe the owner's native tongue is the same as that of the crocodiles in the cartoon strip “Pearls Before Swine.”
City officials in Birmingham, England, recently voted to remove all apostrophes from the city's street signs because they “confuse people.” I'm sure many people wish the apostrophe would disappear from the language--much easier than learning how to use it properly.
A syndicated cartoon, “Bliss,” shows a man commanding his dog to “Lay down,” while the dog is thinking, “It's 'Lie down,' not 'lay down,' stupid.” Does your dog know the difference between the two words? Do you?
Don't you find it ironic in an age in which we are all asked to communicate more with others that this nation's de facto official language, English, is becoming dumbed-down? Attempts to make English our national language have sparked heated debates about whether doing so is discriminatory. Like nearly everything else, the issue has been politicized. To declare a national language, it is said, would be racist. It would deny immigrants equal access to government and the workplace. Other countries do not believe that to be true.
To become a citizen of Norway, one must complete 300 hours of tutoring in the Norwegian language or have documented sufficient skills in Norwegian or Saami, the language of the Lapps. The French presume that if one wants to be a French citizen, one must know the French language. Those who wish to hold Mexican citizenship must have a basic knowledge of the Spanish language and the history of Mexico and be “integrated” into Mexican society.
Immigrants to this country have always brought their cultures and their languages with them, However, those immigrants understood that the preservation of their culture was a familial responsibility, not a national mandate. Older friends who are second-generation Americans remember their parents admonishing them that Polish, or German or Lithuanian were acceptable in the home or one's ethnic community, but that mastering English was the key to their success in America.
English is the language of commerce and the law in this country. English is the language of our literature. It is the language of international air travel. English is a mandatory second language in the schools of many foreign countries. Our language is recognized for its power and influence everywhere, seemingly, except here.
Proponents of bilingualism should look to Quebec. I recall a trip to Quebec City some years ago. In many retail establishments, staff people would not speak to me in English until they were sure I was an American. If I had been from the province, any business transacted would had to have been in French. There have been political movements by French-speaking Quebeckers to secede from the rest of Canada. Do we want that kind of division here?
Frankly, Americans, in general, don't set a very good example when it comes to learning our native tongue. A quick Google search will provide many examples. There's a village sign which reads, “English is our language. Learn it. No excetions.” How about a marcher in a rally carrying a sign which reads “I have a draem”? Or a car dealer who advertises “We bye used cars.” A protester who carries a placard announcing “Get a brain morans.” And then there's my personal favorite, a crossing sign painted on the pavement which reads “SHCOOL.”
Our nation has always been adept at bringing immigrants into the fold without destroying their native cultures. Look at the variety of ethnic restaurants which flourish. The worlds of fashion, music and entertainment have been influenced people of all ethnicities. Even our language has absorbed words and phrases from other languages like “savoir-faire,” “aficionado,” “angst,” and “verklempt.”
The deterioration of English is no peccadillo. Nor should it be dismissed mere zeitgeist. We all need to get some chutzpah before English becomes moribund. Establishing English as a national language would serve to reaffirm its importance to all our citizenry.
herakles
13-02-2009, 18:50
I understand that Quebec is the only place in the world that doesn't use the word "STOP" (at road intersections etc).
The situation with the English language is a thorny one. Made doubly so as it's the standard lingua franca of the world. Living here where I do, I hear much incorrect English but I excuse that as after all it's being used as a second language.
But the post above is referring to situations for those who are native speakers.
Part of the problem is that English is constantly evolving. In this regard it's almost unique in that it's very construction encourages this. Look at a dictionary of other languages. They are all quite small. Not so for English.
One major problem is how much change is allowed or is even acceptable. Should the letter "s" be replaced with a "z" for instance? Is it Labor or Labour? etc. Should we accept that officialdom has ruled that apostrophes will no longer be used on road signs?
Education is the key of course. But many children pass through a Western education quite unscathed. Quite a few never learn to read properly. Let alone write. Who knows someone who was taught English grammar at school - unless they are old fogies like us.
designeraccd
13-02-2009, 18:57
Hey...be careful there: I resemble that last remark!!!! HA! DFO :cool::D:D
"Education is the key of course. But many children pass through a Western education quite unscathed. Quite a few never learn to read properly. Let alone write. Who knows someone who was taught English grammar at school - unless they are old fogies like us."
You put me in mind of a wonderful boss I once had. She was German and was University educated in Germany, a very hard taskmaster (mistress?) to us all in the office. One day a client made the mistake of saying to her " Your English is very good....where did you pick it up?" Well !! She informed him quite strongly that she did not "pick it up", she had studied it. Of course we were all cringing in the background, but she put many a native English speaker to shame.
regards
Vivian
John Odom
13-02-2009, 20:24
The problem with English, is that so few use it correctly. I excuse the Joe in the street, what bothers me most are the media people who abuse and misuse the language. I am a retired Chemistry teacher and my colleagues, even the ENGLISH teachers constantly made gramatical and or spelling errors. The memos from the district office were laughable! No wonder the young people can't speak!
My local newspaper recently sent me an e-mail saying that they would print no more letters from me about the lack of correct spelling and grammar in the paper!
Maritime Michael Ian
13-02-2009, 20:46
When my children were small and going to our village school I used to find that the little bit of homework that they brought home was not corrected for spelling mistakes in spite of the work being marked by the head teacher! I took to correcting the mistakes myself, explaining to my children the reason and making them write the words correctly.
I marked the mistakes in red ink, putting a ring around them. I received a letter from the school telling me that I should not do it.... it was undermining their authority!!!! I went and physically pointed out that the school was where I expected my children to be taught properly, the teachers job was to teach and correct where necessary. My comments were not well received and there was continued friction between the HT and us for the remainder of the time that the children were at the school.
However our efforts did produce the right results.... my Daughter eventually went to Liverpool Uni and got a First Class Bachelors Degree in Archaeology, and my son has his own business writing computer programmes, both use English as part of their jobs!
Ian
herakles
13-02-2009, 20:56
Once a Melbourne Secondary school sent a letter home to parents. It had 27 spelling errors.
Ian, it became fashionable not to correct spelling errors at school less the poor dears creative talents were damaged.
designeraccd
13-02-2009, 22:24
Yes....one must be PC and not damage frail little egos! Beee-ESS! My first grade teacher (@1950) literally would use a 12" wooden ruler over a misbehaving students' knuckles....and I survived! Of course math, English etc boo-boos prompted such...uhh...INCENTIVE as well!
OTOH, compared to U.S.M.C. boot camp...well there was NO comparison. You simply did everything the CORRECT Marine Corps way-instantly-or you got to "pay" dearly. Gee: I survived that , too, and was endowed with self discipline I never suspected I could have. It has served me well for many (many) years! DFO :rolleyes::eek::D
herakles
13-02-2009, 23:20
I'm sure many of us here would be saying similar things about school and Armed Forces discipline. I certainly can. And it did us no harm. In fact it did us good.
These days of course, it's child abuse to chastise a child the correct way. As for the Armed Forces ... ... I presume they now have to say "pretty please".
designeraccd
13-02-2009, 23:38
Well even back when I was in Marine Corps boot camp D.I.s were NOT allowed to "physically" touch recruits. BTW...if you believe that one I have this nice bridge for you...in Brooklyn, such a deal I'll make you! DFO :eek:;):D
"It is a miracle I lerned to spel corecctly"
(sic)
herakles
14-02-2009, 05:54
If you can spell "miracle" properly, there's hope for you yet! :D
I have lived in England, America, and now Australia, all of which are English speaking countries, yet each one developed its own style of speaking and writing the same language. This has never been more apparent than it is today with all the modern technology and easy communications, that highlight the dramatic differences in both spoken and written word. Just one example is the way computers use an American spell check program. The English language is the only language where you can find a word spelt several ways, having several meanings, yet sounding the same.
We are now in a transition period where all these individual styles appear to be merging into one new form of English, as more people have access to other countries and other people via technology. There are still those who try and keep the old standards and traditions, but they seem to be getting fewer in number as time goes on.
The last big transition was in 1066 when the Normans invaded England, and insisted their language was the only one to be spoken, the results of which can still be found spread throughout the English language today.
I am personally not the best of spellers. I think what is more important is that people still make an effort to communicate regardless, as in the end that’s how we really learn. I am sure most people can remember first learning to drive a car, and being told by their instructor that “it’s easy”. The truth is it’s only easy when you know how.
Wombat,
(James).
herakles
14-02-2009, 17:41
I must say I find American spell checkers an irritation!
It is said that the only reasonably stable version of the English language is the written one.
1066 didn't see a great change in English. Our language is one of few that has survived a major occupation by a foreign power. Most people in England kept speaking English as the Normans kept to themselves. Certainly quite a few new words filtered in.
One of the biggest contributors to the language is Greek.
The really big changes took place a little later. These were often grammatical or spelling ones. It is at this time that our language devolves from its German ancestor.
If you haven't yet done so, try reading some Chaucer. With a little practice it does become easy.
This frere bosteth that he knoweth helle, This friar boasts that he knows hell,
And God it woot, that it is litel wonder; And God knows that it is little wonder;
Freres and feendes been but lyte asonder. Friars and fiends are seldom far apart.
For, pardee, ye han ofte tyme herd telle For, by God, you have oft-times heard tell
How that a frere ravyshed was to helle How a friar was taken to hell
In spirit ones by a visioun; In spirit, once by a vision;
In the same way, I have studied the earlier Anglo-Saxon language, the one Bede used. It's remarkably similar to the language of today.
Maritime Michael Ian
14-02-2009, 18:08
We have friends in Rotterdam, from my passenger shipping days, who are my son's God Parents. Their English, and especially spelling, is excellent. People in Europe who are taught English invariably seem to have better spelling skills than many of our "younger generation". I had to write a 20,000 word thesis for my MA in 2006 and the students were advised that marks would be deducted for incorrect spelling!
I too dislke US spellcheck software, likewise the "new" habit of mobile phone texting shorthand!
Ian
herakles
14-02-2009, 18:24
The Dutch! Ah! The language with three "a's" in a row. Europeans are good with other languages because their own language is so structured. They are taught their native language thoroughly.
Some very good points Herakles.
You are right; Chaucer is not an easy read. Speaking of which, have you read “Seven Pillars of Wisdom” by T.E. Lawrence. I have read this book four times, the second time just to clarify what I had read the first time. He has to be the only person I have come across who can write a thousand words just on how to open and close a door!
I find him a fascinating individual, and he was certainly an educated man.
Wombat,
(James).
herakles
15-02-2009, 06:12
You are right. Chaucer is not an easy read. But my point is that we still can!
I've not read "Pillars of Wisdom". It's a book I've always wanted to read. There's no doubting Lawrence was well educated and also highly intelligent.
Vegaskip
15-02-2009, 15:37
Seeyou Jimmy, ah dinny ken whit yous r blethern aboot, try livin in a place wi a name ca'ed AUCHTERMUCHTY an youl no ken whit fouk 'r sayin,in fact jist alang the wie fae us AUCHANDINNY , an ah dinny ken whit thayr sayin anaw, bit wi seem tae git on awright.
Weel its a braw minlicht nicht so an awaw tae ma scratcher.
Aw th'best Jum.
designeraccd
15-02-2009, 16:50
From an old High School buddy, now a RETIRED English teacher:
Canterbury Tales--had to study it twice, once for each degree. Both times in Middle English. Easier to read than to speak. What's fun are all the double meaning words like "quaint" which is a code word for a certain female anatomical location.
LAWL
Knowing Lawl, he DID indeed figure out ALL the "code words"...D.O.M.: (Dirty Old Man!!)
This frere bosteth that he knoweth helle, This friar boasts that he knows hell,
And God it woot, that it is litel wonder; And God knows that it is little wonder;
Freres and feendes been but lyte asonder. Friars and fiends are seldom far apart.
For, pardee, ye han ofte tyme herd telle For, by God, you have oft-times heard tell
How that a frere ravyshed was to helle How a friar was taken to hell
In spirit ones by a visioun; In spirit, once by a vision;
herakles
15-02-2009, 18:33
Oh Jim, you make such a valid point. There is huge variety of spoken English in the UK. The American differences pale into insignificance.
Chaucer is hard to speak but by no means impossible. The trouble with the even earlier English is that no-one knows how to say it.
Cnut cyning gret his arcebiscopas and his leod-biscopas and Þurcyl eorl and ealle his eorlas and ealne his þeodscype, twelfhynde and twyhynde, gehadode and læwede, on Englalande freondlice.
(Cnut, king, greeteth his archbishops and his people's-bishops and Þurcyl, earl, and all his earls and all his peopleship, greater (having a 1200 shilling weregild) and lesser (200 shilling weregild), hooded(ordained to priesthood) and lewd(lay), in England friendly.)
Anglo Saxon English is however a highly developed language as the epic poem Beowulf ably demonstrates.
It must be fabulous to have such a command of the English language. I can understand why traditionalists fight so hard to keep it.
Jimmy, my cousin talks just like you!! My wife once offered to post a letter for me that I had written to my cousin. She addressed the envelope Glasgow, ENGLAND!!!! Won’t repeat my cousin’s comments but I think there were a few words similar to what you wrote.
Wombat,
(James).
herakles
15-02-2009, 20:46
One has to tread a slippery slope concerning the protection of the language.
It is a living language so it's going to keep changing.
Yet I find myself correcting quite a lot of alternative spellings - like the dropping of the "u" as in "Labor", the use of "z" instead of "s" etc.
I'm quite irritated that Webster altered the language only because he was an Anglophobe.
However, some American words that annoy some such as "dove" as the past tense of "dive" and Fall instead of Autumn, are quite valid as they are words that were in legitimate use everywhere once.
American English is a reflection of 17th century English just as Australian is of the 18th century.
Commodore Armiger
16-02-2009, 09:59
I have noticed several instances on this forum of the use of the term "ex-patriate".
"Expatriate" is one who is living outside the country of his/her birth.
"Ex-patriate" means someone who was formerly a patriot, i.e. a traitor.
There are millions of people across the world who can properly be called the former, but precious few of those would be pleased to be labelled the latter!
[QUOTE=herakles;37210]I understand that Quebec is the only place in the world that doesn't use the word "STOP" (at road intersections etc).
Sorry but you are wrong. There are also France, Martinique, Guadeloupe and French Guyane where Arrete substitute Stop.:D:D:D
BTW Frech have Arrete, Stop and Halt to expres STOP:):)
The English language is the only language where you can find a word spelt several ways, having several meanings, yet sounding the same.
Wombat,
(James).
Please give me a breake!
Do you really think English is notable exeption? Sorry but you are totally wrong. In every language there are words spelt several ways and having more than one meaning:D:D:D
Hawaiian being one of those.
Regards
Charles
[QUOTE=herakles;37210]I understand that Quebec is the only place in the world that doesn't use the word "STOP" (at road intersections etc).
Sorry but you are wrong. There are also France, Martinique, Guadeloupe and French Guyane where Arrete substitute Stop.:D:D:D
BTW Frech have Arrete, Stop and Halt to expres STOP:):)
And even such a word as computer in French is ORDINATEUR:eek::eek::eek:
Please give me a breake!
Do you really think English is notable exeption? Sorry but you are totally wrong. In every language there are words spelt several ways and having more than one meaning:D:D:D
Shouldn't that be "break" and "a" notable "exception"? :D :D :D
Wombat,
(James).
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