Crimean War (Baltic theater only): help for detailed research

[Commodoro CIPO]

Hi all,
it's my first post on tis forum and I hope I did pick the right one. I am doing a research as preparation for a video documentary I will be doing on the subject. I am focusing on the Viapori island (now called Suomenlinna and located in front of Helsinki) bombarding on the summer of 1855. I am trying to reconstruct the 2 days of that event and I will also rebuild everything with 3D models in a computer animation. I have been gathering lots of information on Internet but I still need to go into more details. I am interested specifically on the following:

- more details about the waponry used in those years: pictures, measurements, potentiality of the cannons, mortars, missile on board of the British ships (as the "HMS Duke of Wellington"). How every of those weapons have been used, recharged and operated.
- how the ships of the lines were used and which tactics have been adopted for such events. How the ships usually were located and used in such bombarding missions
- some more pictures an details of the used ships to be able to rebuild credible 3D models
- also same info about the French ships (limited in numbers but still active in the bombarding)

I will not go into more details and first I will wait to hear any feedback or suggestion on how to move on.
Thank you again for the time in reading and possibly answering my questions.
All the best
Cheers
CIPO

[Commodoro CIPO]

HI again

no one knows anything about it ? AM I in the wrong forum/thread ?
Please, let me know where I can find more info.
Thank you for all the help you can give :)
Cheers

[Commodore Armiger]

Many of the sea-dogs on this forum are interested in WWII or later and in photos. Though there are experts on the RN in the "Age of Sail", if only one can attract their attention.

I am the only person that I know of to have started a thread on the Baltic aspect of the Crimea: http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=972 .

This thread is about a Midshipman at the bombardment of Sevastopol, but gives a first-hand commentary of what it was like aboard a wooden wall during a bombardment: http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=839

My first question must be how much you have read already. I have, for example a book called "The Crimean War" by Paul Kerr that, like most books on the period, concentrates on the Crimea itself but has reproductions of relevant pictures at pp 33-34 and 146-147 and a useful picture of a shore bombardment, albeit of the Russian fleet attacking Sinope.

Two books: "War at Sea in the Age of Sail" by Andrew Lambert, and "War at Sea in the Ironclad Age" by Richard Hill have a lot of useful stuff and extensive "further reading" lists. The latter has a very useful two page plan of the Siege of Sveaborg.

Basil Greenhill and Ann Giffard's "The British Assault on Finland 1854-1855. A Forgotten Naval War" is said to be the best recent (1988) work on the subject.

"Nelson's Navy" by Brian Lavery provides masses of detailed material about wooden fighting ships and their men. Don't be put off by the title. Most of the content applies equally to the 1850s. Explosive shells had developed, and of course some of the ships had steam engines (though principally as auxiliary propulsion for manoeuvre in harbour and when the wind was particularly inconvenient). Otherwise life aboard was virtually unchanged - but impressment had gone and the lash was all but eliminated. Oh and uniforms for seamen had come in.

Archibald's "The Wooden Fighting Ship in the Royal Navy" also has masses of useful info and pictures.

This site has lots of useful background, but you have to look for it: http://www.pdavis.nl/Russia.htm . (http://www.pdavis.nl/Russia.htm) as does this: http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

The (British) National Maritime Museum can provide access to pictures and plans (for example of HMS Duke of Wellington): http://www.nmm.ac.uk/ and is probably your best bet for an introduction to real experts.

[Commodoro CIPO]

Many of the sea-dogs on this forum are interested in WWII or later and in photos. Though there are experts on the RN in the "Age of Sail", if only one can attract their attention.
First of all thank you for the detailed answer, I really appreciate it.

I am the only person that I know of to have started a thread on the Baltic aspect of the Crimea: http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=972 .
In fact I already read the original material from the Finnish embassy (BTW: I live in Helsinki).

This thread is about a Midshipman at the bombardment of Sevastopol, but gives a first-hand commentary of what it was like aboard a wooden wall during a bombardment: http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=839
Very interesting, it gave me some insight of the life on board.

My first question must be how much you have read already. I have, for example a book called "The Crimean War" by Paul Kerr that, like most books on the period, concentrates on the Crimea itself but has reproductions of relevant pictures at pp 33-34 and 146-147 and a useful picture of a shore bombardment, albeit of the Russian fleet attacking Sinope.
Given the fact that reading is a never ending experience :) .... I have a little collection of material:
1) The history of the british navy, from the earliest period to the present time.
By C.D. Yonge. Vol III (ch 44). 1866

2) The history of the baltic campaign of 1854. From documents and other materials furnished by Vice-Admiral sir C.Napier, K.C.B edited by G. Butler Earp. 1857

3) Pictorial history of the russian war 1854-56 with maps, plans and wood engravings.
W.&R. Chambers. 1856

4) A treatise on naval gunnery.
By general Sir Howard Douglas, Bart. 1860

Newspapers (in Swedish and Finnish):

Borgå Tidning (#62, 11 Aug 1855)
Finlands Allmänna Tidning (#186, 13 Aug 1855)
Finlands Allmänna Tidning (#199, 28 Aug 1855)
Finlands Allmänna Tidning (#237, 09 Oct 1855)
Ilmarinen (#33, 18 Aug 1855)
Morgonbladet (#61, 13 Aug 1855)
Viborg (#64, 14 Aug 1855)
Viborg (#65, 17 Aug 1855)
Viborg (#68, 28 Aug 1855)
The History of the Baltic Campaign

I also compared those news with the one on US newspapers and they don't match .... it is probably due to a different political view on the matter :)
I lack direct info from Russian archive and I am working on this side. I did also some research on mine blocades and the involved technology, I went through also the biografy of the Nobel family (Immanuel and Alfred) to better understand the new sea mines.

Two books: "War at Sea in the Age of Sail" by Andrew Lambert, and "War at Sea in the Ironclad Age" by Richard Hill have a lot of useful stuff and extensive "further reading" lists. The latter has a very useful two page plan of the Siege of Sveaborg.
These I don't know. Would it be possible to get a few copy/picture from the Sveaborg material only ?

Basil Greenhill and Ann Giffard's "The British Assault on Finland 1854-1855. A Forgotten Naval War" is said to be the best recent (1988) work on the subject.
I already located the book that you suggest above on the local national library, I will look into it :) thx

"Nelson's Navy" by Brian Lavery provides masses of detailed material about wooden fighting ships and their men. Don't be put off by the title. Most of the content applies equally to the 1850s. Explosive shells had developed, and of course some of the ships had steam engines (though principally as auxiliary propulsion for manoeuvre in harbour and when the wind was particularly inconvenient). Otherwise life aboard was virtually unchanged - but impressment had gone and the lash was all but eliminated. Oh and uniforms for seamen had come in.
Need to look into it.

Archibald's "The Wooden Fighting Ship in the Royal Navy" also has masses of useful info and pictures.
Any good picture you could suggest ?

This site has lots of useful background, but you have to look for it: http://www.pdavis.nl/Russia.htm . (http://www.pdavis.nl/Russia.htm) as does this: http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

The (British) National Maritime Museum can provide access to pictures and plans (for example of HMS Duke of Wellington): http://www.nmm.ac.uk/ and is probably your best bet for an introduction to real experts.

Thank you, got those good links. I don't seem to find the blue print of the HMS Duke of Wellington. Any idea about it ? That would be really great :)

Again thank you for all the help.
Cheers
CIPO

[Commodoro CIPO]

HI ... I just got this link from an other person helping me:
http://www.nmm.ac.uk/contact/buy-ship-plans/ (its the National Maritime Museum which can provide copies of the plans).

Now I need to get in touch with them :)

[Commodoro CIPO]

HI again,
anyone here has this book: The Sail and Steam Navy List: All the Ships of the Royal Navy, 1815-1889 ? (amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Sail-Steam-Navy-List-1815-1889/dp/1861760329/ref=sr_11_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1235154468&sr=11-1)).
I would like to know if I can find there plans of the HMS Duke of Wellington and other ships from the Crimean War. Someone can provide the book index ?
Just to be sure before I will buy it :)
THX

[tinduck]

Hi CIPO. I have "The Sail and Steam Navy List: All the Ships of the Royal Navy, 1815-1889", but as the title suggests, its mostly a listing of the ships with technical details, there are some plans but they are not of a very large size and there isn't one of the Duke of Wellington.

Are you aware of the Crimean War Research Society?
http://cwrs.russianwar.co.uk/cwrsentry.html

They might be able to help with your query

Dave

[Commodoro CIPO]

HI Dave,

thank you for the precious help.
Could you please verify that the book has the ship plans for one of the following "ladies" ? :) In order of size/importance.

Neptune, St.George, Royal George, St. Jean d'Acre, Princess Royal, James Watt, Nile, Majestic, Caesar, Prince Regent, Monarch, Cressy, Boscawen, Cumberland, Edinburgh, Hogue, Blenheim, Ajax, Imperieuse, Euryalus, Arrogant, Amphion, Dauntless, Leopard, Cruizer, Archer, Valorous, Odin, Magicienne, Desperate, Conflict, Vulture, Fragon, Driver, Rosamond, Basilisk, Hecla, Bulldog, Porcupine, Lightning, Alban, Hospital-ship Belleisle.

And probably you can also check the Windsor Castle (1852) which was renamed Duke of Wellington in 1852 :)

Maybe if you could make a scan of one of the ship plan I would then understan if they ar usable for my purpose. Before buying the book I want to make sure i can be useful. For my CG reconstruction I will need a few vessels anyway to mak it more realistic.
I knew about the Crimean War Research Society and I have been contacting them about 1 year without much results. But I will try again now that I have a broader knowledge :)

Thank you very much again.
CIPO

[Commodore Armiger]

Have you read my private message?

[Commodoro CIPO]

I missed it :) But now I read it and replied :)
Thank you.
Cheers
CIPO

[Commodoro CIPO]

Hi guys,
got lots of new material and some ship plans.
Now I am trying to understand which gub boats and mortar boats were used to bombard Sveaborg. Any idea about the ship model used (need to reproduce them) ? And which cannons and mortar types have be used ?
THX
CHeers
CIPO

[SCRG1970]

CIPO

I do not have details of the specific ships involved in the bombardment but I have a listing of Ships on the Crimea Station 1854-1855 covering the period 17 Sept 1854 to 9 Sept. 1855.

It is split into 3 sections Sept 1854 to 22 Nov 1854, 1854-5, 1855 0nly.

If this would help I will gladly forward it to you.

Regards

gerry

[Commodoro CIPO]

Hi

thanks for the help. Please, let me see the list of 1855 only. I have also a list of the Baltic fleet but it seems I don't have the smaller boats.
Thank you
Cheers
CIPO

[SCRG1970]

List of Baltic/Crimea Fleets 1854-1855

Hope this helps

Gerry