Storms at Sea

[kookaburra]

On the 21st of December 1989, French photographer Jean Guichard - a specialist in photographing lighthouses - approached La Jument lighthouse off the Western coast of Brittany during a great storm.

The keepers had been sheltering in the lantern room, and fearing the 1911 lighthouse - built on a rock 300 yards off Ushant Island - was about to be destroyed, had called for help.

Hearing Guichard's helicopter approach, and thinking this was the rescue, keeper Theodore Malgorne stepped out of a door at the base, and stood watching, his hands casually in his pockets as a vast wave engulfed the lighthouse from behind him.

The seven frames that Guichard managed to snap off at that moment almost instantly became world famous, perhaps the most famous lighthouse photographs of all time.

And Malgorne? He managed to turn around and slam the door in time, escaping unharmed. The lighthouse, it follows, and I'm glad to say also survived.

Extreme weather shots are always appealing, and I'm adding several more here, mainly of the big storm that hit Britain and France in March last year. Of course this is a ball of string, but always glad to see more. P.S. FYI, Melbourne is in the midst of an historic heatwave as I post this, and expecting 44C+ (about 112-115F I think) later today.


Is it just me, or are the extreme weather events becoming much more frequent. Many scientists say so.

[kookaburra]

Just to give a naval dimension to this thread: On December 18 1944 the USN Task Force 38 was hit by a typhoon off the Philippines with three destroyers capsized and sunk, 28 ships damaged and 790 lives lost.


The same task force was struck by a small but intense typhoon off Okinawa on June 5, 1945, with 36 ships damaged, including the carriers Hornet and Bennington, while the cruiser USS Pittsburgh lost 104ft of her bow, later recovered (pics below).

The destroyer USS Warrington also sank during a hurricane in the Bahamas in 1944 with heavy loss of life. At the time one of the US Navy chiefs said no modern warship should be lost to weather, but water had got into the Warrington's engineering spaces killing her engines - thus leaving her helpless in the hurricane. And the following year, the typhoons in the Pacific showed that nature remained bigger, even than the U.S. Navy.


Here is a link listing all United States naval ships lost to severe weather in its history.

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq102-2.htm


On October 15-16 1951, during the Korean War many ships of the United Nations forces were damaged by Hurricane Ruth , including HMS Belfast (carley floats and stanchion lost) and HMS Unicorn, a number of USN ships (I don't have the details), and most notably the Australian carrier HMAS Sydney, which appears to have hit the worst of the storm. Sydney lost a firefly aircraft overboard, and had five others damaged beyond repair when their undercarriages collapsed and deck fixings came adrift. The ship also suffered fires in her electrical circuits which caused smoke to get into her ventilation systems. Minor injuries to personnel only (pics below).

[herakles]

I've always found storms at sea most exciting and pictures of them fantastic. But I've never seen any as great as those lighthouse ones. Quite awesome - and I use the word with its correct meaning.

To be on a ship in a giant storm must be an extraordinary experience. I've often marvelled at descriptions of ships sailing around the Horn. I recall one ship actually turned beam over beam in one storm.

Then there was that terrible Sydney Hobart race when so many lives were lost. And a Fastnet some years ago as well.

Hang in there K. At least a few have read this interesting thread. Perhaps one of them will deign to reply.

[tonclass]

Have a LARGE, FRAMED version of your first pic, Kook, on my living room wall !! It's superb !!!!!!

[herakles]

Is it just me, or are the extreme weather events becoming much more frequent. Many scientists say so.

It is just you. Many scientists say that extreme weather events are not more frequent. Bear in mind that there is a great deal more reporting of events than there used to be.

For instance, I can still remember extreme weather in Melbourne in my youth. Just as hot and frequent as it is today.

Perhaps this isn't the place to raise the great global warming lie.

[kookaburra]

One of the truest rhymes I ever heard ...

Red sky at night
Sailors delight
Red sky in the morning
Sailor take warning


I abided by it always...

Below, a couple of my own pics from a small boat off Bruny Island on the southern tip of Tasmania last March, and same area an hour earlier (it was not a storm really, just some swells, but the pics of this magificent but very changeable coastline just appeal to me). But first, HMAS Melbourne also experienced some ups and downs from the Southern Ocean rolling into the Great Australian Bight.


EDIT: But ...here's a link to some more TRULY spectacular lighthouse/storm photos from Cornwall ...do take some time to look at them, you'll be rewarded.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7247833@N04/2328199509

[herakles]

The rhyme often has shepherds instead of sailors. But why not? Both have an avid interest in the weather. It's a very old saying.

This from the Wycliffe bible:

"The eeuenynge maad, ye seien, It shal be cleer, for the heuene is lijk to reed; and the morwe, To day tempest, for heuen shyneth heuy, or sorwful."

It also appears in Shakespeare (doesn't nearly everything :))

"Like a red morn, that ever yet betoken'd wreck to the seaman - sorrow to shepherds." (Venus & Adonis)

There is reason to put some reliance on the saying. Which is more than can be said for many others, like:

St Swithin's Day, if it does rain
Full forty days, it will remain
St Swithin's Day, if it be fair
For forty days, t'will rain no more

St Swithin's Day is the 15th July.

It's worth considering that Weather Bureau people still have major difficulties forecasting weather.

[kookaburra]

Thanks for that erudite expansion on the rhyme Herk.

In view of your comments on La Jument, I just want to make sure you didn't miss the further truly spectacular lighthouse photos that I edited in as a link later to my previous post.

Here it is again here : look at the whole series

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7247833@N04/2328199509


My interest in the Cornish coast is that it's where my forebears came from, a mix of miners, fishermen and seamen.

I don't have a complete genealogy but I put up that court hearing link in an early Australia section post on the Chief mate of the brig Elizabeth who died in a pistol duel on Garden Island in 1826. In the 19thC another was a RN surgeon, another a quartermaster on HMS Sealark who died and was buried on Ascension Island; another was the captain of a pilot boat in Devon, and another the superintendent of the HM dockyard at Plymouth. Most however were miners and mining captains (superintendents).

It's a very small clan, but when the Cornish tin began to play out in the 19C, or the tin found in Malaya proved cheaper to access, they spread to every corner of the globe, wherever there was mining - from remote deserts of Bolivia to South Africa and Australia. Many of their lives ended rather tragically, reducing our numbers even further.


The storms of life, eh?

[herakles]

They are astonishing photos indeed! Thanks for the link.

Cornwall eh? That's next to England I think. :rolleyes:

Mine are from nearby Devon. All sailors. There's even a street named after us in Brixham. And the Common was once our family's. Been there for as long as I've traced back - hundreds of years. Grandfather played a very important part in the ship building for WW1. Hard to trace too far as so many records were lost in the bombings.

Storms of life - yes!

[kookaburra]

just adding that as I was posting these today, the temperature in Melbourne just after 3pm, with a high North wind, was ...


46.4 degrees Celsius = 115.52 degrees Fahrenheit

It's not the hottest weather I've ever experienced, which was 120F in Deseret California in 1995 (I've got an old front page from the Deseret News about that somewhere), and also felt something like it in various parts of the sub-continent and Australian outback, where temps sometimes exceed 50C. But with the ground multiplier effects in a city of almost 4m, let me tell you the impact of this in Melbourne is astonishing.

I need a cool hit before I dash out with some more water for my poor, poor plants (I've promised the hydrangeas I'll stand by them). Anyway, here we go - Aegis missile cruiser USS Lake Champlain in the Atlantic:

[herakles]

And now as I type, I'm listening to reports of many bushfires in Victoria. And Ingham in Queensland has had 870 mm of rain!

[kookaburra]

And now, at 5pm - in what those familiar with Melbourne's famous changeability will recognise, a 'southerly buster' has hit, and it looks like we're in for a major STORM.

Should be good. Unfortunately I lost my camera a couple of months ago.

[kookaburra]

Fires:


6.35pm: I am going to sign off the storm thread now, as the extent of the bushfires crisis becomes gradually apparent, and the incongruity here is no longer appropriate.

Essentially vast areas of the State are on fire, as it was on Ash Wednesday in 1983 and Black Friday in 1939, but the heat today has exceeded all records.

The temperature at Avalon Airport just outside Melbourne, was ...

47.9C = 118.2F

Many homes have been lost, and first reports are beginning to come in of people missing. In heavily forested Gippsland, (Southeastern Victoria- a heavily forested State ) the southerly change will only have the effect of turning a huge fire there into new forest areas, and fire service spokesmen say the towns of Drouin, Warragul, Neerim and Neerim South could be threatened.

There are huge resouces being sent there, however, and hopefully they will be okay.

If interested, please just monitor news bulletins for further info. Like California, these things get very big here. In 1983, the Ash Wednesday fires, there was ash falling on New Zealand from Victoria. K.

[herakles]

I've just listened to the ABC news. It's all very bad. Thankfully not as bad as Ash Wednesday though.

[rumrat]

Here's a couple of well worn old pix of the Arry in roughers in the Med 1972.

Dave

[mik43]

Hi K
Just for your interest, the Cornish, or to be PC - Cornwall, pics in your first post are Sennen and Porthleven respectively.

And for Herks, as I expect you remember, Cornwall serves one very useful purpose, it stops Devon being washed away........!!

Mik

[CGRET]

Just another day at the office,



Here's good photo's.
Regards
CGRET

[vivian]

Kookaburra, thanks for the pictures of the lighthouses and particularly the explanation behind the La Jument picture with the keeper standing in the door. I always wondered what he was doing standing there. Now I know. An amazing scene. I always fancied being a lighthouse keeper, but perhaps not there !!

regards
Vivian

[mik43]

Hi Dave

Are the pics of Victory taken at the USCG 'school' for boat handling?

Mik

[CGRET]

Mik,

Yes indeed. Very nice shot's of these classic's in action.


34327


Unknown as far as name goes, But a good shot of the ship at sea.

Regards
CGRET

[Maritime Michael Ian]

I travelled to UK in January 1965 and in the South China Sea we went into a hurricane and spent 4 and a half days in it. Water was being shipped on the bridge, 60 feet above the waterline! Most of the waiters were hors de combat. I think I'd rather face an Atlantic gale than go through that again!

Ian :(

[CGRET]

I to have had some nasty day's at sea. The Bering Sea, South China Sea, Pacific ocean. By far the worse storm was in the Bering Sea. The storm's in that part of the world tend to come out of the blue. On one trip the ship ran bow on into storm that with in 1 hour the swells were 35ft to 40ft with 3 to 6 ft seas on top. The winds were calm then peaked at 70 to75 miles per hour. The Commanding Officer after awhile decided he had enough of this and decided to make for shelter. In trying to make shelter in Dutch Harbor, Ak we had to quarter the seas for a short period. That put the ship at a 15 degree list to oneside. We also we shipping water off of the bridge as well both mast. The air search(SPS-40) was secured earlier in the day. Shortly after making shelter the crew was called out to break ice of the ship's weather decks and part of the superstructure. Those were long day's of ice,snow,wind and just flat out COLD!

[mik43]

Ian
I wouldn't be to quick to jump for an Atlantic Gale!! Been through two official hurricanes with waves 50foot plus and screaming winds 80 knots plus, and countless infamous 'deep Atlantic Depressions' mentioned on the BBC Shipping Forecast which were just as bad!! Made releasing a large met balloon off the backend when the deck was 6 foot above sea level on a calm day interesting!! The only saving grace of Severe Gale Force 9 and upwards was that the waves might be enormous but the wave length was long enough that the ship stayed dry, it might roll like a pig but at least it was a dry one!!!! I'm sure CGRET will agree with me on that one!!
Mik

[CGRET]

Mik,

I would agree with you.

Regards
CGRET

[CGRET]

Here is one of the USS Essex, USS North Carolina,



3506335064

Regards
Charles

[CGRET]

Ship's in sea storms,

37364


Bouy Tender in rough seas

Regards
Charles

[maccdale]

I'll have to dig out pics from the May 2009 storms in Surfers Paradise...That was a great initiation for a Canadian Boy expecting 10 days of sun and beach. When we left the beach was gone, just gone...

[Angus MacSporran]

KOOKABURRA. I believe that the typhoon you refer to in December 1944 was used by Herman Wouk in his famous story of USN destroyer life 'The Caine Mutiny', to depict the typhoon where Captain Queeg upset his crew enough for them to remove him from his command. This typhoon was vividly described in one of my favourite books of naval life.

This video gives depth to your lighthouse waves! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJBVyNHkqZ0
Who wants to keep a lighthouse now?
Angus.

[INVINCIBLE]

You've probably seen this website:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cruel_Sea_(novel)

Does the sea on the cover of the book look cruel enough? Where are the huge waves and ocean abysses?
Any artists out there to take up the challenge?
Seagull

Seagull,

Some where else on this forum we have covered enormous waves and the cruel sea - not sure where. The difficulty at sea is the perspective - you see an enormous cruel wave towering over your ship but trying to photograph it accurately is difficult. I took some pictures of huge seas we encountered out in the Atlantic and some of them towered over the top of our frigate - quite a frightening experience - certainly teaches one respect for the sea.

[Seagull]

Invincible, these are fascinating photographs! Thank you for posting them. Any more? Or is this too far off the mark for this thread? Would anyone be interested in a 'Photographs of the Cruel Sea' thread!

Seagull

[INVINCIBLE]

Invincible, these are fascinating photographs! Thank you for posting them. Any more? Or is this too far off the mark for this thread? Would anyone be interested in a 'Photographs of the Cruel Sea' thread!

Seagull

Seagull,

Thank you - I suspect you are probably right that this is way off the thread. Nevertheless below is another of my photos and two others I have but did not take (I think I posted the last two somewhere else in the forum but am not sure where). There is a thread on freak weather but I don't think that covered waves.

[astraltrader]

Guys if you wish to start a Rough seas thread in either Shore Leave or even Everything Else then I will transfer the pictures from here.
It is a tad off topic for the Naval ficton thread even taking into account "The Cruel Sea" which was not really related to rough or stormy seas!

[INVINCIBLE]

Most of us have encountered heavy and frightenening seas at some time or other during our time at sea. Some areas such as the Agulhas current or off Cape Horn have produced spectacular waves. When in company it has been possible to see other ships lifting right out of the water. This topic has cropped up in various threads but I wonder if anybody has managed to capture any good photos of ships in heavy seas?

[INVINCIBLE]

Guys if you wish to start a Rough seas thread in either Shore Leave or even Everything Else then I will transfer the pictures from here.
It is a tad off topic for the Naval ficton thread even taking into account "The Cruel Sea" which was not really related to rough or stormy seas!

Terry,

Many thanks - agree - you are absolutely right. Have opened a thread under 'Shore Leave'. Must now hunt for some good pictures.

[astraltrader]

Well done. I have moved all the old posts from the naval fiction thread over to here and as well promoted the thread to "Everything Else" as there is both a serious and a naval side to your pictures.

[berry]

G'day,there was a KING SIZE GOFFERS thread which seems to have been
swept away !

[harry.gibbon]

G'day,there was a KING SIZE GOFFERS thread which seems to have been
swept away !

Berry,

King Size Goffers are still available from the goffer machine in the canteen flat, outside the NAAFI shop!!!! However if size is important, suggest you muster back aft in the sickbay flat:)

Look out though INVINCIBLE is searching for more of his goodly goffer pics.

It should have been a standing order that the ships phot' was on call during roughers/ruffers... purpose - big goffers, pic taking, safety harness wearing, for the use of!!

Little h

[berry]

Little h, size is always important,goffers,roughers whatever.........
we can handle it all,
regards
Sid

[INVINCIBLE]

There are some great pictures of the LEANDERS in rough seas. The design of their hulls made them such good sea keeping ships in rough weather. Some members of the forum must have some of thse pictures. Here are some old and rather poor quality of other ships: LEWISTON, a battleship, BLAKE, an old DARING, an old battleship. Don't know which the battleships are.

[JackW1208]

Re Lewiston, if the pic was taken between Dec 69 and Mar 72, I was onboard!!! If not, been in that situation many times, North Sea and Biscay.

Jack.

[tonclass]

HMS ARETHUSA in roughers

[Seagull]

Some gut-wrenching photographs! The winner for me so far is the third photo on post No 3.
Thanks everyone. Keep them coming.
Seagull

[INVINCIBLE]

Re Lewiston, if the pic was taken between Dec 69 and Mar 72, I was onboard!!! If not, been in that situation many times, North Sea and Biscay.

Jack.

Jack,
The picture was taken in January 1969 in the North Sea, so presumably you would have been onboard LEWISTON at the time. Nine Ton class sailed from Port Edgar (HMS LOCHINVAR) to Hamburg. The story ges that almost all were sea sick when the squadron ran into a force ten at 12 knot! Will not ask whether you held on to the contents of your......Not many people were fit enough to take happy snaps.

[INVINCIBLE]

HMS ARETHUSA in roughers

Rik,

Great pictures of ARETHUSA! I like the third picture, which shows the bows coming right out of the water. I have seen other pictures of LEANDERS in similar dramatic poses.

[INVINCIBLE]

Some gut-wrenching photographs! The winner for me so far is the third photo on post No 3.
Thanks everyone. Keep them coming.
Seagull

Seagull,

Thank you. Did you recognise the unmistakable ship silhouetted in the trough of the waves?

[astraltrader]

Here are a few pictures of Warships taken in very stormy seas.

The first two are quite well known shots of Scorpion taken in 1954.

The third one is the carrier Eagle taken again in 1954.

Picture 4 is a poor quality picture of Olna AGAIN from 1954 - what is it with that year?!!

Picture 5 shows Cavalier roughing it - apologies again for a less than satisfactory quality.

[designeraccd]

I just knew there was a GOOD reason I was a Marine...who stayed on dry land!!! DFO :eek::D:D

OTOH, my wife and I joined Coastie friends for a cruise in 1969 on the old Minnetonka from LA out to Catalina Island: I enjoyed the ride (mostly standing on the deck above the bridg), she turned...shall we say, GREEN and seas were maybe a 4-5' chop!!! :D

[Powers]

Re Invincible's post 17.

Picture 3 of post 3 looks like VANGUARD. Pleased I wasn't onboard at the time.

Regards.......... Paul

[INVINCIBLE]

Here are a few pictures of Warships taken in very stormy seas.

The first two are quite well known shots of Scorpion taken in 1954.

The third one is the carrier Eagle taken again in 1954.

Picture 4 is a poor quality picture of Olna AGAIN from 1954 - what is it with that year?!!

Picture 5 shows Cavalier roughing it - apologies again for a less than satisfactory quality.

Finally a shot of the USN destroyer Paul.F.Foster.

Terry,

Great pictures. I think the first four were taken in the North Atlantic, during the major NATO Exercise MARINER in September 1953. The ships ran into a terrible storm and many sustained considerable damage.

[INVINCIBLE]

Re Invincible's post 17.

Picture 3 of post 3 looks like VANGUARD. Pleased I wasn't onboard at the time.

Regards.......... Paul

Paul,

Absolutely right, unmistakably VANGUARD.
Ships in harbour can also be subject to a bit of roughers as shown by this shot of Devonport.

[astraltrader]

Invincible - I am glad you liked them.

Here is another "mixed" batch of ships caught in stormy seas.

The first one is probably my all time favourite of this type of photograph - the troopship Somali battling the elements!!

Next up is an interesting shot of the cruiser Dunedin taken some time during WW2.

Third is an unknown cargo ship again taken during the war.

Fourth is a French photo-postcard - unknown ship again.

Last is of an escort carrier facing rough seas in the North Atlantic during 1944.

[harry.gibbon]

To the contributors of these pics ... thank you!!

It's really nice to reminisce from the safety of one's armchair... and think about times spent in these conditions.

Aah well we got through it OK. I just thank my lucky stars that in my service career, I didn't have to 'fight the ship' during any major maritime wars!

My heart goes out to all those who had to fight the oceans and an enemy.


Little h

[Seagull]

These photographs hit the solar plexis! Thanks to all who have posted photographs.

Re. Photo No 3 of Post 3 - see
http://www.gwpda.org/naval/vanguard.htm


HMS Vanguard
by David Horne

Stand still! Stand Still! Ye leaping waves
And mourn along with me
For a gallant ship has crossed the bar
Of the great eternal sea:
A flash, a roar, a blood red flame,
Then a huge overwhelming cloud,
And a thousand soles are wrapped within
The ocean's winding shroud.
Ten thousand doors do ever lead
To death upon the deep:
Sometimes they open silently
Sometimes our hearts do creep
When a blinding flash, and a deafening crash
Sends a good ship to her doom
And her gallant crew are hid from view
Within a watery tomb.
Oh! Little we know of the price men pay
Who guard the silvery sea,
Who keep our homes inviolate
Each town, each winding lea;
We reckon it up in paltry cash
In bars of gleaming gold
But the ransom's dyed in a ruddy tide-
The blood of warriors bold!
So bare your heads ye landsmen all,
Who live at home in ease,
And pray the Lord that ye worthy be
Of the men that hold the seas;
Of the mighty Vanguard who are stood
So valiant in the strife,
Of her gallant crew that flashed from view
Through death to endless life!

From the Chatham News, 24 July 1917, courtesy of Jonathan Saunders.

[rumrat]

Rik,
Re your pix of AJAX mate ,Its not AJAX it's ARETHUSA taken in the Med 1972.
Regards
Dave

[tonclass]

Rik,
Re your pix of AJAX mate ,Its not AJAX it's ARETHUSA taken in the Med 1972.
Regards
Dave

Cheers Dave. Will amend accordingly...

[rumrat]

NOTTINGHAM in a spot of Roughers September 2004.
Pictures Crown Copyright from MOD Picture Library.
Regards
Dave

[rumrat]

MANCHESTER Bouncing about a bit.
Picture from the MOD Picture Library
Crown Copyright.
Regards
Dave

[rumrat]

MAXTON Transiting the Eastern Med en-route to the Suez Canal 1974.
Regards
Dave

[Dreadnought]

There are some good pics of ships in storms here guys:

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3379&highlight=storms

.... including some of yours Dave ..

[astraltrader]

In which case they need to be merged which I have now done.

Well done Clive I completely forgot that we had an earlier version of this thread!

[astraltrader]

Great pictures Dave[Rumrat]. Many thanks.

Just before and after WW1 a series of postcards were released featuring ships in stormy seas.

I show a selection of these here.

1. Austria.
2. Amazone.
3. Chile.
4. Himalaya.
5. Orvieto.
6. Otranto.
7. Souriah.

[harry.gibbon]

There is a powerpoint presentation of 50 slides to be found at Storm-op-zee (storm at sea) some of which have been used in the forum in various threads, but worth a look... having trouble linking it to this post however.

Little h

[MelQuick]

Gentlemen

Wow!!! Now I know why I joined the Air Force.

Great pictures - thanks for sharing them with us.

Mel

[astraltrader]

A pleasure Mel - a few more that might be of interest.

The first one is of a British destroyer in a convoy to Malta - I would love to know her name!!

The second is of the RCN Corvette Eyebright taken during 1944.

The third is of a Hunt Class destroyer in the Med - again I would love to know which one she is.

Finally the last is of a squadron of French torpedo destroyers taken from the same series as I showed in my post #61.

[MelQuick]

Terry

Many thanks.

Mel

[Bumble Wood]

Hey thanks for the story. I have seen this photo many times and marvelled at the incredible moment captured on film. I have heard varying comments over the years that the lighthouse keeper in the shot survived or perished. I am gladdened to know that he survived. I'll bet this photo graces his walls.

[astraltrader]

BW - if you are going to make any comment about an earlier post could you possibly also give the post number?

I assume in this case you are referring to post #1?

many thanks.

[skipperbob]

As is usually the case I was looking for something else entirely when I came across these pics. I have seen many photos of the December 1944 typhoon that hit TF 38 but I never saw these before and I thought I would share them. According to the captions they were taken from the cruiser USS Astoria CL90 and they were taken as the seas started getting heavy before the typhoon hit. One destroyer is a Fletcher class and the other looks to be an Allan B Sumner class. They just struck me as being really impressive! Hope you enjoy.

[spruso]

Here's a few more. USS Cowpens and Astoria I think - same typhoon.:(:(:(
Cheers
Bruce

[Scurs]

Terry.............your Post 64...............Not sure which book, but have seen same photo (your first one) of Destroyer, Second Battle Sirte, listed as HMS KIPLING.

On another thread I think the Hunt Class was suggested to be HMS Pytchley ?

[astraltrader]

Thanks for the identification of Kipling, Ray.

Greatly appreciated! :)

[tim lewin]

Cruise Liner in Big Antarctic Seaway

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20101209/video/vwl-antarctic-cruise-ship-tossed-b
y-mass-15af341.html

this reminded me of HMS Urchin in "the great storm" which can be read on the appropriate thread.
the even lost a bridge window and comms, as we did!
tim

[bluestreak]

What amused me was the comment about "not expecting such rough weather!"

[CYLLA]

Hi TIM

Your attachment did not open , but could this be the same "goffer" ???

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1337062/Cruise-ship-slammed-enormous-Antarctic-waves.html

cylla

[John Odom]

History has shown that high seas can come up at ANY TIME is the southern oceans. Modern cruise ships look to me like they are disasters waiting to happen, with all the superstructure and windows and complex electronics subject to damage from the slightest bit of moisture.

I can understand for the Caribbean market where they are close to ports and the weather radar will give adequate warning of adverse conditions, but in the Southern Oceans?

I went through a typhoon on the SS General W.H. Gordon in the pacific. I was glad we had portholes, not picture windows! We lost some boats and a bridge window was smashed. A modern cruise ship would have been doomed!

[hornpipe]

Call that a storm? Bring on the Babbies Heads and RBG! Seriously, that ship is too small for an Antarctic Cruise ship and I believe it has run into serious safety problems on previous cruises to the ice?
BTW is the "great storm" involving the Urchin the same one in 62/63 in the Bay that also involved the Virago and an RFA? If so, I may have a photo or two tucked away in me ditty box.
h

[INVINCIBLE]

Another goffer picture from the 60s. Note the jack at sea!

[Derek Dicker]

Mng Invincible

Strange photograph, noted she is flying a union jack, also my critical eye of an ex bunting noticed she has a single black ball hoisted at the yard arm. This indicates the vessel is at anchor, so it would be correct to fly the jack. Some safe anchorage with weather like that.


Derek (Bunts)

[JackW1208]

A bit of skulduggery going on there, methinks!!!!!

Jack.

[Seagull]

Invincible: that is a excellent one for a Xmas card. Do you have copyright? !
Seagull

[Mitch Hinde]

Hi All

Similar if not same photo published in Warship World some time ago. It was finally acknowledged as a montage by some clever leading phot.

Mitch Hinde

[INVINCIBLE]

Invincible: that is a excellent one for a Xmas card. Do you have copyright? !
Seagull

I don't have the copyright but I don't believe there is a problem as it was not copyright protected being just a filler on the back of the 1966 Plymouth Navy Days brochure and not attributed to anyone. It became quite well known at the time. It does have a black ball and the jack but the anchor appears to be up......

[NSR]

It looks like the Starboard anchor is up but the Port cable is visible so it may be down.

Ken

[tim lewin]

dear Hornpipe, the great storm of Urchin was that dreadful winter of 62/3 but we were alone, sent to help a rudderless tanker of Cherbourg in a force 12 Nor'Easter, the going was fine, it was the coming back that took the froth off the coffee! its in here somewhere, think its in the thread about Urchin, Venus, Virago, Queenboro et al, the mods will direct you.
tim

[INVINCIBLE]

Hope members can open this impressive drop of roughers!

[harry.gibbon]

Hope members can open this impressive drop of roughers!

Not on my screen INVINCIBLE ... must have blown itself out:)

Little h

[INVINCIBLE]

Not on my screen INVINCIBLE ... must have blown itself out:)

Little h

Harry,

Thanks, guess you are right. Don't know what happened there or why it did not upload. Anyway here is another go.

[Batstiger]

HMS Blenheim.

[INVINCIBLE]

Two more drops of "roughers"!

http://video.uk.msn.com/watch/video/terrifying-ride-for-nz-fishing-boats/2ghl7m9o?from=CA3_news

http://video.uk.msn.com/watch/video/antarctic-cruise-ship-tossed-by-massive-waves/2gbpvfbc

[Stokers Son]

The corvette Pirie
Here are some photographs of Dads. The first four are of Pirie in Bight and the last is off Okinawa in April 45
John

[INVINCIBLE]

Great photo in today's "NEWS" of HMS Edinburgh about to go "green", taken by Lieut John Jackson. Edinburgh in the South Atlantic.

[Shinysheff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVoMtPFtEg0

Try this one out! Cruise ship with no power. Scary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVUFj35BNKM&feature=related

And here's a video taken inside the ship. Wow.

[Scurs]

Shiny Sheff................certainly no worse than messdeck in Type 14 Frigate during Force 10 gale..............difference is, we were expected to put up with it as a matter of routine...........I guess Cruise Ship passengers are not! :D

[Shinysheff]

Yep, they're paying ludicrous amounts of money to be at sea rather than being payed a pittance to be out there. :)

[eskimosailor]

On the 21st of December 1989, French photographer Jean Guichard - a specialist in photographing lighthouses - approached La Jument lighthouse off the Western coast of Brittany during a great storm.

Is it just me, or are the extreme weather events becoming much more frequent. Many scientists say so.

Are there two similar lighthouses in the background in pic 3?
Steve

[eskimosailor]

While at Portland, 737 squadron, we took 4 Wessex helos out on RFA Engadine for training. After a quick trip to Rotterdam we left for the Western Approaches late one night. It was quite rough, and we spent a lot of effort checking the hold-down chains of the helos on the hangar.
The following morning we were told by the ship's crew that for some time during the night Engadine was making 3 knots in reverse.
Here's a picture I took from the bridge of Eskimo while crossing the Indian ocean. Sorry it's so dirty. Like all my slides it got affected by mould while in store at one of my homes.
Steve

[bert-261]

This is H.M.S. Phoebe somewhere off the coast of west Afica in Nov 1970, as I recall the upper deck was out of bounds for three days and during one middle watch she heeled over till the engine room inclinometer hit the stop at 45degs. It could only have been for a second or so but hanging on for grim death and praying hard it felt like a lifetime. Also during the big blow of '86 I was working for RMC on coastal dredgers and we were out in the channel on the 1.200t Sand Swift throughout that night. We could not get into any harbour and eventually ended sheltering in St Catherine's Roads off the Isle of Wight, riding on both anchors with the main engine turning slowly just to hold position. Personally I had the midnight till eight a.m. off that night and slept right through. bert-261

[John Odom]

There is some very good rough water video from Tierra del Fuego here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=T4FIS1FnOQg

[Shinysheff]

There is some very good rough water video from Tierra del Fuego here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=T4FIS1FnOQg


Excellent stuff, that French Frigate is taking a battering.

[oldsalt]

Yes, I have to agree ,that is roughers. The worst weather I encountered was in Troubridge in the N. Atlantic 1957, no photos exist ,so it is hard to make comparisons.

[harry.gibbon]

Rogue Waves - Defining Their Characteristics for
Marine Design
Keynote address by Douglas Faulkner
Emeritus Professor of Naval Architecture and Ocean Engineering,
University of Glasgow,
Glasgow,
Scotland


Abstract.

A brief history of the increasing awareness of freak (rogue) waves
includes their proposed use for survival design and for forensic investigations of
marine accidents. In particular, extreme wave heights which have elevated steep
faced crests have been shown to be much more damaging than present design
rules and codes allow for. The market and technical trends in trading ships and
in offshore installations are outlined. The nature of such extreme abnormal seas
is illustrated, including their effect on trading ships and on FPSO/FSU vessels.
Design to provide some capability to survive such wave actions is then
discussed and some critical operational conditions are suggested for further
study. Provisional design criteria are suggested.

1 Introduction

This paper introduces the need for a paradigm shift in thinking for the design of ships
and offshore installations to include a Survival Design approach [1,2] additional to
current design requirements. At present ship primary structure is designed to
withstand length dependent linear waves not exceeding 10.75 m high which are meant
to represent a lifetime extreme in North Atlantic winter conditions [3]. Green water
pressure loads from class society rules lie in the range 26 to 60 kN/mm2.
Service experience, advanced analyses and experiments show that these are quite
inadequate standards to withstand the actions of realistic large steep elevated waves.
Moreover, it seems that most mariners feel that weather routing does not provide
adequate protection to cargo ships from these extre me storms by issuing effective
weather avoidance actions. Too often decisions are governed by charter dates rather
than by ship safety.

1.1 Brief History
Draper first aroused my interest in exceptionally high freak waves [4] by suggesting
these were not curious and unexplained quirks of nature. He added, their occurrence
can be calculated with an acceptable degree of precision, and he identified two aspects
of their statistics.
But it was an aircraft engineer, Buckley, who first suggested that ship hull girder
design required a new approach [5]. Further research work for the US Navy identified
extreme and climatic wave spectra for use in ship structural design [6] followed by his
first application of survivability design using first principles [1] because present rules
and criteria were inadequate. He was doing no more than transferring aircraft design
principles to ships.
These publications, together with the analytical work undertaken for Lord
Donaldson’s Assessment of the loss of the m.v. DERBYSHIRE led me to postulate [6]
that a steep elevated abnormal wave probably collapsed the forward hatch covers
during typhoon ORCHID. This was followed by a more technical paper covering all
possible loss scenarios in the light of the final underwater survey of the wreckage [7]
and by experiments. The Honourable Mr. Justice Colman’s report [8] confirmed the
quite inadequate strength requirements of cargo ship hatch covers (which go back to
1966). He also criticised IACS’ recent 1998 rules and suggested they too were
inadequate. He suggested they should be based on extreme steep elevated waves and
ultimate strength criteria, that is, on survival design.
In September 1998 a WMO Conference was held in UNESCO, Paris [9] at which
Keynote papers were presented by myself for ships (based on my DERBYSHIRE
experience) and by C. Grant for offshore installations. The need to characterise
abnormal/freak waves for design and operation was accepted and a whitepaper report
by the COST 714 Management Committee outlined research needs to achieve this.
This was worked up in detail and presented to the European Commission who
authorised it as the “MaxWave” Project which was approved and announced at a
recent conference in Brest [10].

1.2 Market and Technical Trends
Trading Ships. Recent market projections suggest that by 2012 ship freight may
double to about 13 billion tonnes carried over 20% longer voyages of about 5000
nautical miles. Technically, this suggests more larger ships to meet the economies of
scale are needed to meet the increasing demands from developing countries. Some of
the shorter shipping routes are likely to include faster freight carriers.
Given the present difficulties in finding/producing well trained crew, and in
providing effective inspection, maintenance and ship traffic control, it seems
reasonable to expect perhaps a three-fold increase in marine accidents and losses.
Offshore Developments. Oil and gas demands will continue to increase, mainly
because of increasing living standards in developing countries. Nuclear power is
unpopular, we cannot depend on Middle East supplies and other land based
exploitation is limited. Inevitably the increased demand is likely to be met mainly
from offshore oil and gas installations, much of them in harsher deeper water
environments. Again, the risks will become greater even though the industry is
generally rapid in responding to increased knowledge.
Safety. The new environmental knowledge arising from MaxWave and other studies
could hardly have come at a better time to provide more realistic environmental data
for survival design loads. At the same time the use of better fatigue and ultimate
strength modelling (which is now available) should ensure the best prospect of
limiting severe damage and losses in both industries.

2 The Cruel Sea

Lord Nelson said “I can commend men and ships, but I cannot command the wind and
sea”. Adlard Coles likened some extremely chaotic seas to a witche’s caldron. Most
of the illustrations are from his excellent book [11]. The challenge now is to model
them sufficiently well so that designers can begin to design marine structures having
some capability to survive such seas.

2.1 Survival Seas
Pyramidal waves are usually generated as standing waves which are non-translatory.
They usually occur within the circle of maximum wind speed in revolving tropical
storms. Figure 1 shows a prize winning photograph of such a wave off south Japan. It
is not dissimilar to Hokusai’s painting “The Wave” of 1830.
Figure 2 shows breaking interactions between several steep waves. It looks as if it
comes from another world with extreme chaos and a near vertical wave crest rising
against the background sky. Figure 3 is also from the North Atlantic and shows the
sort of near breaking wave front which nearly capsized the QUEEN MARY when
carrying 15,000 American troops in WWII. Note the freak wave coming up astern.
Figure 4 shows a deep water wave front breaking without interruption from 200 m
to nearly 350 m. Figure 5 shows a boiling following sea which would be bad news
from any small ships or boats.
I could not resist including Fig. 6 which is taken from the front cover of Ochi’s
book [12] which nevertheless deals almost entirely with Gaussian linear waves! A
better book for dealing with high asymmetrical waves by Tucker and Pitts is to appear
shortly [13]. For recent insights into wave generation physics the book by Komen et al
[14] can be recommended. From a bibliography of freak wave observations by
mariners and others I select three by Nickersen [15,16,17].

2.2 Effects on Ships
The bibliography of the occurrence of rogue waves and their effect on ships and
yachts is extensive. A sample has been given in references [2,6,18].
Fig. 7 is a sketch of a 256,000 dwt VLCC in 1977 meeting an elevated wave
generated in the southerly Agulhas current which opposes the prevailing sea. The crest
height above the deck could be accurately judged from the bridge as the foremast was
totally submerged, and the crows-nest reinforced windows were smashed in. The
estimated wave height was about 30 m, and had the vessel been a bulk carrier laden in
dense ore she would not have survived.
Fig. 8 shows a distressed fishing boat struggling to remain hove to in seas
described as 40-50 ft. high accompanied by 60-65 knot winds. Fig. 9 also shows a
cargo vessel about to encounter a long spilling breaker. Fig. 10 is a remarkable picture
of a Great Lakes bulk carrier deluged on the beam by a wide rogue wave. Had her
hatches been designed to just meet the 1966 LC requirements this wave would have
breached the ship in several holds.
Figs. 11 to 14 show container ships in distress. In Fig. 11 the ship is experiencing
fore end slamming and loss of freeboard. The ship is approaching a wall of water at
mast height in Fig. 12 and Fig. 13 shows dislodged and smashed containers. In Fig. 14
the large APL China lost 400 containers with 700 or more damaged and a complete
hold flooded. Three other 4500 TEU container ships were caught and damaged in the
same storm in November 1998 in the NE Pacific. They limped into Seattle and other
ports and eventually the total loss of cargo and damage to containers and ships was
reported as being about $3 billion.

2.3 Abnormal Waves
Reports of extreme sea states in deep and shallow water frequently refer to a single
high wave, or the “wave from nowhere” or sometimes there are several successive
high waves, for example, the “Three Sisters”. Summaries of observed freak waves are
provided by Nickersen [15,16,17]. These include very steep “walls of water” and long
generally shallower troughs. Another phrase used by mariners is “holes in the sea”.
These could well be unusually deep troughs, or perhaps a shallow trough which
appears to be deep. For example, as seen from a ship which has mounted a high crest
with a steep back face dropping into what might well appear to be a “hole in the sea”
even though the trough is shallow.
Abnormal (Freak or Rogue) waves are individual waves of exceptional height
and/or abnormal shape. Some put exceptional as > 2 Hs, but there are many waves
which exceed this. I prefer a value > 2.4 Hs (2.5 was used in refs. [2,6]). Although we
do not yet know enough about their generation physics they are generally transient
and we can perhaps begin to classify them as follows:

A. Extreme waves in stationary seas arising from different frequencies getting into
step, as Draper puts it [4], or indeed from non linear superposition and phasing of
many wave frequencies.

B. Steep elevated waves which arise from:
a) wave and opposing current interactions
b) focussed wave groups and their interactions
c) refraction around shoals or from inclined seabeds (beach effects)
d) wave caustics from diffraction at coastlines and around islands
e) young waves are steep, especially in intensifying winds.

C. Episodic waves in deep water from outlying events. These too can have very
steep elevated crests and include the Three Sisters group generally intruding at 30o
to 50o from the predominant wave system.

D. Breaking waves (progressive open orbits); it is claimed that high velocity very
steep crests which arise are generated from energy overshoot actions. The two
categories are spilling and plunging breakers, but the latter can be ignored in
deepwater.

E. Standing waves (no progression) which arise from:
(a) opposing wave trains
(b) crossing wave systems
(c) rapid changes in wind direction, for example, the pyramidal waves which occur
within tropical cyclones
(d) coastline diffraction which may lead to wave interference actions.
Previously I have included as a separate category revolving tropical storms (RTS)
because the seas generated are significantly different from those observed in other
storms. This is because the input energy is rotational which restricts the fetch and at
the same time it is advancing at a speed of 5 to 12 knots initially and up to 25 to 30
knots as the RTS recurves northwards (in northern hemispheres). Moreover, the rate
of change of wind speeds is generally faster than in other storms and the waves are
young and generally very steep, with pyramidal waves inside the radius of maximum
wind, as described above. When added to any existing swell and longer fetch wind
waves the maximum wave height may well exceed 30 m.
Steep elevated waves with crest amplitudes as high as 0.74 x wave height have
been recorded. The crest kinematics are complex, but toward the top of the crest the
forward velocity can be twice that at the mean waterline. Weather expert Houghton
and wave scientist Judi Wolf [20], in describing the devastation in the 1998 Sydney to
Hobart Race, which claimed six lives and sank five boats, recalls: seas of 15 m were
common and 20 m waves were encountered with considerable regularity. Boats were
encountering waves of double the expected height and a 300% increase in steepness –
lethal by any standards.
Finally, we should note that real sea is usually 3-dimensional. Although new
physics is tackling this it will be some while before it can be reasonably modelled.
However, improved 1-dimensional and 2-dimensional models of the sea will surely
provide a major step forward even for Survival Sea modelling.

3 Survival Design

This subject was introduced in 1.1. The underlying thinking is that when one
examines serious ship damages and losses, as Buckley has done, it becomes clear that
in many cases they could not be caused by the normal extreme sea conditions used in
present design. We need to look at the effects of individual waves, or sequence of
waves, of exceptional height and/or abnormal shape. Then, modelling the actions of
such waves would provide inputs to critical ship conditions (e.g. excessive water on
deck, rolling, etc.) for which some relatively low safety factor should be applied in
design so the ship has some capability to survive these conditions. This is the essence
of survival design [1,2] which would then become a necessary addition to or
replacement of present design rules.

3.1 The Survivability Envelope
NOAA has built up an extensive database of hourly wave buoy measurements over an
effective measurement period of about 10 years from a wide range of wave climates
around the USA coast and trading waters. Buckley has used this to define operability
and extreme survivability envelopes from climatic wave spectra (long term averages)
from a wide range of significant wave heights Hs and peak periods Tp. These are
shown in Fig. 15 [21]. The upper part of the survivability envelope from points S1 to
S2 was mainly defined by data from the category 5 hurricane CAMILLE of 1969.
Buckley then went on to include the worldwide data of Hogben et al [22] as shown
in Fig. 16. The top of the survivability envelope is split into the northern (1) and
southern (2) hemispheres. The southern envelope is more severe because of the
severity of the southern seas and the SW Pacific in particular. Its peak value of HS =
18 m is actually being used by the offshore industry for operations West of Shetland.
Buckley was delighted to find that his left hand envelope of waves of limiting
steepness of Fig. 15 corresponded within about 2% with Hogben et al’s data. In 1979
Hogben recommended to the ISSC that waves of limiting steepness be defined by:
2 Tp = 13Hs (1)
It may be noted that in fetch limited storms Buckley found the JONSWAP
spectrum with shape parameters between 1 to 3 gave good spectral modelling. A value
of 3.3 is widely used in the North Sea.
Regarding the operability envelopes, the lower regions may be said to
approximately correspond to normal extreme design for ships. However, the upper
bound points O1, O2 and correspond to occurrence levels of Hs of about once a year
(according to Buckley). These substantially exceed the maximum wave heights and
risk of once in 20 years implicit in ship design – see next section.

3.2 Critical Ship Conditions
A provisional but not comprehensive list of ship design related subjects which have
been suggested for Survival Design considerations includes:
(a) Primary hull strength
(b) Hatch cover and coaming strength
(c) Fore end protection
(d) Wave impact on hull and deck structure and fittings, and on bridge fronts
(e) Capsize, especially of small vessels
(f) Cargo shift, cargo damage
(g) Pooping damage
(h) Steering when hove to (inadequate rudder size)
(i) Hatchless container ships
The recommendations from the final DERBYSHIRE proceedings [8] should take
care of (b) for forward hatch covers in large ships, because the principles of survival
design are being applied. But, all hatch covers and coamings are vulnerable, and
smaller cargo ships must be included Of the remainder (a) and (d) are perhaps the
most important and are now briefly discussed.
Primary Hull Strength. Two independent dynamic simulations for the m.v.
DERBYSHIRE and for an offshore FPSO typical of those now operating in the
northern North Sea and West of Shetland have shown that maximum realistic wave
induced bending moments in the hull girder could well exceed present requirements
[3], perhaps by as much as:
- 40% in the hogging mode
- 80% in the sagging mode.
This is clearly serious and should be investigated further. In the last four years a
large container ship and a medium size bulk carrier have broken their backs, both
were maintained in reasonable condition. Two badly maintained tankers broke their
backs – the ERICA caused considerable pollution damage off the Brittany coast in
October 1999. It is not unreasonable to assume that a first principles survival design
approach, of the type illustrated above, would have provided an additional safety
margin to minimise if not eliminate such risks.
Wave Impact. A recent FPSP/FSU study for the HSE has shown that whereas present
green water design pressures range from 25 to 60 kN/mm2, whereas those derived
from bow damage experienced on SHIEHALLION, operating West of Shetland, have
been estimated as being of the order:
- 750 to 1000 kN/mm2 locally
- about 200 kN/mm2 globally.
My own analyses using survival design principles yield values about twice as
large. Either way, these results are an order of magnitude greater than present design
rules, and the same conclusion was reached from a similar recent study for the HSE
[23]. Clearly ship rules need to be changed. Fortunately, the HSE has substantially
increased its requirements for offshore installations.

3.3 Provisional Design Suggestions
Engineers are often faced with insufficient data from which to make decisions, for
example, relating to design equations. But, designs have to proceed so the best
present information should be used, with the hope that the resulting equations are truly
provisional until better data and/or analyses can improve them. With this in mind I
have made some survival design suggestions arising from my DERBYSHIRE work, as
follows:

A. For many ship structural applications the choice of survival Hs should be length
dependent, for example I have provisionally suggested:

...................(for formula - please open link below)

B. The associated Tp range to examine should be close to equation (1), and associated
wave lengths suggested are:

...................(for formula - please open link below)

C. Critical extreme waves for a notional a = 0.01 probability of exceedance assuming
12 hour exposure and pe = 0.4 times Longuet-Higgins are:

....................(for formula - please open link below)

D. Pressures for horizontal wave impacts:

.......................(for formula - please open link below)

E. Structural survival design should use ultimate strength modelling with suggested
load factors of 1.0 for plate elements and 1.5 for grillages.
Finally, using derived survival loads and load combinations, a properly validated large
amplitude nonlinear motion program, such as LAMP [24], should be used to evaluate
motions and internal forces in the ship or structure for component and system design.

4 Acknowledgement and Closure

This paper derives from my work for the DERBYSHIRE investigation and for
MaxWave, and I thank those who have inspired me in both endeavours. The
combination of new wave data and understanding combined with a paradigm addition
to design is a challenge where interactions between both communities are essential.

5 Figures................(are as included below - please open link to view)

Fig.1. Pyramidal wave off south Japan
Fig. 2. North Atlantic Chaos
Fig. 3. The ultimate North Atlantic storm
Fig. 4. South Pacific breaking wave front
Fig. 5. A boiling following sea
Fig. 6. Very steep breaking wave crest
Fig. 7. VLCC ATHENE and a 30 m wave off Port Elizabeth in 1977
Fig. 8. Cargo ship about to encounter a wall of water
Fig. 9. MV SELKIRK SETTLER encounters a beam on rogue wave in 1977
Fig. 10. Container ship plunging into moderate seas
Fig. 11. Container ship about to encounter a wall of water
Fig. 12. Dislodged and smashed containers
Fig. 13. The APL China with lost and damaged containers
Fig. 14. NOAA baseline Operability and Survivability envelopes
Fig. 15. Survivability and Operability envelopes for Northern and Southern hemispheres

References ......................(please open link below to view the 24 References).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
source here (http://www.ifremer.fr/web-com/molagnon/bv/Faulkner_w.pdf); where the photographs and diagrams listed as figures No's above, can be seen.


Little h