Jutland?

[Jan Steer]

I have mentioned elsewhere that my grandfather served in the Persian Gulf campaign, the Dardenelles etc. He also fought at Jutland and I have in my box of bits his base metal Spinks commemorative medal. Would he have bought this or would it have been issued? Was a Jutland medal ever issued?
There is no mention of an issue on his records.
regards
Jan

[astraltrader]

Jan as far as I know this medallion was released in 3 different base metals including silver. From what I can remember they were released for some form of Benevolent fund raising...

[Jan Steer]

Tks Terry. I gather that they were sold in aid of naval orphans. I have never seen or heard of a Jutland medal awarded to our people though.
jan

[astraltrader]

You are right in that there was never an official medal struck for those who were participants...

[Wombat]

After the war the Admiralty was going to issue bars for the British War Medal, and one of them was going to be for Jutland. A great shame, but due to the difficulty of administration and cost the bars were never issued, however I have seen a bar Jutland on a miniature BWM.

I know someone who has a miniature group including the BWM & bar Jutland, so if I can get a photograph, I will post it later.

The Jutland medallion was indeed sold to raise funds for War Widows & Orphans. I have seen them suspended on a Red White & Blue Ribbon and added to the end of groups, (BUT THEY ARE NOT OFFICIAL).

Wombat,
(James).

[Jan Steer]

Thanks James. You have answered a question that has long puzzled me.
Jan

[Odin]

Adding to Wombat's comments. I have also seen the bar Jutland 31 May 16 on miniature British War Medals. I was lucky enough once to see the group of full size and miniature medals to a Lt Cdr who was at Jutland on HMS Invincible. He was one of the very few who survived the sinking. His miniature BWM had six bars including Falkland Islands and Jutland.

The Navy drew up a list of bars for issue with the BWM and these were actually approved by King George V. These are listed below:
General Actions: Heligoland, Falkland Islands, Dogger Bank and Jutland
Single Ship Actions: Cap Trafalgar (Carmania), Emden , Konigsberg, Leopard (Achilles and Dundee) and 21 April 17 (Swift and Broke)
Fighting in Sea Areas: North Sea, Narrow Seas, Home Seas, Arctic, Baltic, Mediterranean (each of these bars would have had a year date - 1914, 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918)
Special Services: Minsweeping, Minelaying, 'Q' Ships, Submarines, Baltic S/Ms, Marmora S/Ms,
Actions with Enemy Land Forces: Belgian Coast, Dardanelles, Gallipoli Landing, Gallipoli, Suez Canal, Zeebrugge Ostend, Ostend 10 May 1918
Ops in connection with those on Land: Mesopotamia, Red Sea, German East Africa, German SW Africa, Pacific Islands, Cameroons
Services in Serbia and Russia and Post Armistice: North Russia 1918-19, Eastern Baltic 1918-19, Mine Clearance 1918-19, Serbia, Siberia 1918-19, Russia, Black Sea 1918-20, Caspian

The Army never finished drawing up their list of bars and although the Navy ones had already been approved, in the end no bars were every issued for the full size medal.

[Harley]

Odin, I take it you're referring to Lieutenant Cecil Stanley Sandford, later Rear-Admiral C. S. Sandford, O.B.E.?

Simon

[Jan Steer]

Thanks Odin. The breadth of knowledge that you and others display never ceases to amaze me. My hat is on and I am saluting Sir!
Jan

[Wombat]

Thanks Odin.

A very comprehensive list.

More important, your time and trouble is appreciated.

Wombat,
(James).

[Odin]

Simon

'I take it you're referring to Lieutenant Cecil Stanley Sandford, later Rear-Admiral C. S. Sandford, O.B.E.?'

Spot on - his great nephew had his medals. I got a copy of Sandford's papers for him and still have a second copy of them somewhere which I will try and dig out. His OBE was for his services on HMS Invincible from the Falklands through to Jutland.

Thanks to the others for the kind words - remember British Medals are my first interest and so if there is anything that I can possible help other Forum members with then feel free to ask.

[Odin]

Referring back to the original question - The Battle of Jutland medals were by F Bowcher for Spink and Son and were sold to raise money for Naval Orphanages

They were made in two sizes and using several different materials:

45 mm dia ... silver ... bronze ... white metal
22.5 mm dia ... gold ... silver

A photo is given below:

[james_harvey]

odin

didn't the admiralty propose 22 clasps? its a shame they weren't issued as it would make collecting ww1 groups more interesting,

is there a list of what ships served in what battles/areas in ww1?

regards

james

[Odin]

James

No if you look at the earlier list I posted and then think that for North Sea for example there would be 5 bars (North Sea 1914, North Sea 1915, etc thro' to North Sea 1918). That gives you 30 bars for the Sea Areas alone and the total I think is more than double that. I don't think they had got as far as working out which ships qualified for the various bars. Also you have the complication that if you qualified for Jutland 31 May 16 you probably wouldn't get the North Sea 1916 bar as well.

I would imagine that medal claims would have taken for ever to sort out as each man's combination of bars would be different as sailors moved to other vessels.