HMS Belfast

[tim lewin]

In 1939 my father, the newest officer in the Navy joined HMS Belfast, the newest cruiser in the Navy. Here are some contemporary pictures of those times. Stories will follow.
tim

[Melv.]

My Father in Law served on the Belfast (WW2) as well Tim

William Seymour Percival Macey!! Yes, I know, that's a lot of names to have! :D
Good job he was always known as "Bill"

[Alan B]

I've got a photo of Belfast when she was brought back to Pompey for a refit in the 90s that might be of interest. It's 390kb, is this too big to attach? If so, how can I make it smaller please?
Ta
Alan
Ok I think I've sussed it

[Alan B]

When they brought the Belfast home for a refit.

[Alan B]

And another of Liverpool from my Dads album.

[Batstiger]

I would like to suggest that a Sticky be made of this ! It is a terrific page full of excellent photographs of HMS Belfast as she is to-day.
For all you ex matelots it will bring back hundreds of memories of life on board. All you want to make it perfect are the hum of the fans and that special smell which is hard to describe but all mariners would know it if they smelt it.


It should attract one or two comments especially when you see the guy in his Hammock. How on earth does he stay in it and when you get to the crews bathroom ask yourself " where has all the Rainbow soap gone?"

http://rpmshipboat.fotopic.net/c884703.html




Bob.

[jbryce1437]

Some great photos amongst them. Recognise most of the electrical gear as I had two DC ships and it wasn't until 1972 that I joined an AC ship.

[Alan B]

Give me a Hammock any day. And that's enough of this AC-DC lark too :D

Alan

[tim lewin]

Last friday I had a meeting aboard HMS Belfast from where i went to the National Maritime Museum and Greenwich Old RN College. It was a very stormy day so I snapped of a couple of pics of the sky which I thought some of you might equally enjoy! The bofors gun was in the process of maintainence at the time; and yes, i did get soaked.
tim

[Stan.J]

Nice photos Tim, and you should have had your brolly

[Batstiger]

Nice pictures Tim. My doesn't that sky look threatening?

Bob.

[herakles]

Yes, dramatic pictures.

I thought the English sky always looked like that! :D

[tim lewin]

I can assure you it was more than a threat! within 20 metres of the ship it was solid water and hail, fortunately there is an overhang on the adjacent building, within 10 mins it was gone but the streets were in flood and empty, the cab to Greenwich only took about 10 mins.

[tim lewin]

For those of you not familiar with that part of london the enormous conglomeration of new buildings seen between the cupolas of the ORNC are the banks huddled together on Canary Wharf at the top end of the Isle of Dogs, next to them is the FSA, financial regulatory agency. There is a foot tunnel under the Thames from Greenwich to the Isle of Dogs, very popular with buskers, and a few years ago the Docklands light railway was tunneled through next to it. The stormy sky over the banking centre struck me as rather symbolic!

[ceylon220]

HMS BELFAST came out to Singapore to take over from the cruiser CEYLON in1959 but the night before we were due to sail a couple of the crew played a prank and sneaked aboard her and retrieved the Admirals flag and replaced it with a white bed sheet,when this was discovered by the O.D. the ships company were mustered and the 2 crew men (RMs ) owned up to the prank, I believe they were given a warning, at least they sailed home with us, but these pranks were played out by other ships company during the 60s and 70s,
all good clean fun.


Great pictures of her in the war paint.

[jonti]

On July 29th 2008, the Telegraph (UK) published the obit. of Capt. 'Andy' Palmer, an ex-Ganges boy, who had a strong claim as Torpedo Officer of 'Belfast' to have sunk the Scharnhorst in 1943. The obit. covers his RN and post RN life and is very interesting. It should be still available on the Telegraph website, www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/2467560. Rob T

[Batstiger]

HMS Belfast,built by Harland & Wolff,launched 17/3/1938.Museum ship,River Thames,21/10/1971.

At the start of the Second World War the 18th Cruiser Squadron was part of the British effort to impose a naval blockade on Germany. As part of this squadron, Belfast intercepted the German liner Cap Norte on 9 October 1939 as the liner was trying to return to Germany disguised as a neutral ship.

At around 1:00 a.m. on 21 November 1939 she was seriously damaged as she left the Firth of Forth, with twenty-one men injured, by a magnetic mine laid on 4 November by the German submarine U-21 under the command of Kapitänleutnant Fritz FrauenheimHYPERLINK \l "cite_note-0"[1]. The mine broke the keel and wrecked the hull and machinery to such an extent that repairs at Devonport took nearly three years.

She returned to service in the Home Fleet in November 1942 under the command of Captain Frederick Parham. Improvements had been made to the ship during repairs, notably bulged amidships to improve her longitudinal strength and stability, and fitting the latest radar and fire control; her displacement had risen from 11,175 to 11,553 tons, making her Britain's heaviest cruiser.

She was made flagship of the 10th Cruiser Squadron, under Rear-Admiral Robert Burnett, in which capacity she provided cover for Arctic convoys to the Soviet Union. On 26 December 1943, in what became the Battle of North Cape, the cruiser squadron, consisting of Norfolk, Belfast and Sheffield, encountered the German Gneisenau class battlecruiser Scharnhorst, and with the battleship HMS Duke of York subsequently sank her.

Belfast was part of the escort force in Operation Tungsten in March 1944, a large carrier-launched airstrike against the Tirpitz, at that stage the last surviving German heavy warship, moored at Altafjord in northern Norway. Tirpitz was hit by fifteen bombs and severely damaged, but not destroyed.

Belfast was modernized between January 1956 and May 1959. During this refit all the AA guns (4 inch and 40 mm) were removed and replaced by more modern weapons of the same calibre. All the gunnery control equipment and radars fitted during wartime were also replaced. Finally the original bridge was rebuilt and enclosed to face the new constraints of NBC warfare and the original raked tripod masts were replaced by lattice masts. These alterations were very similar to the bridge structure and masting fitted on the new Tiger class cruisers.

Between 1959-62 the ship operated in the Far East on exercises and "showed the flag". In December 1961 she provided the British guard of honour at Dar-es-Salaam during the Tanganyika independence ceremony.

The ship left Singapore on 26 March 1962 for the UK where she made a final visit to Belfast and after an exercise in Mediterranean was paid off on 24 August 1963. Following a campaign led by Rear-Admiral Sir Morgan Morgan-Giles DSO OBE CM, a former captain of the ship, she was brought to London to become a museum ship and was first opened to the public on Trafalgar Day, 21 October 1971.

The ship is currently painted in a camouflage scheme officially known as Admiralty Disruptive Camouflage Type 25. In the real timeline, HMS Belfast carried that paint scheme from November 1942 to July 1944. The anachronism is augmented by the fact that HMS Belfast in 1942-1944 had a distinctly different appearance from today, her silhouette and equipment having been vastly modified during her extended refit from January 1956 to May 1959.

B a t t l e H o n o u r s-ARCTIC 1943 - NORTH CAPE 1943 - NORMANDY 1944

[Gary Charles]

I know this is a different thread, but, in Alan B's photograph of Belfast returning for a refit you can see in the background the Queens Hotel. Part of the white building next to it used to be an RN nursing home. Does anybody have further information about this nursing home?
Gary.

[tim lewin]

Judge orders girl to write apology for killing HMS Belfast's cat A teenager who drowned a rescue cat adopted by the crew of HMS Belfast has been ordered to write a letter of apology as part of a nine-month supervision order.


Last Updated: 8:07PM GMT 14 Nov 2008

The 16-year-old, wearing a distinctive white hoodie, was spotted by a security guard throwing the animal into the Thames from a gang plank connecting the ship to its dock in London.

Kilo, who was rescued from Battersea Dogs and Cats Home, has not been seen since February 9 and is missing presumed dead.

The teenager, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was part of a gang of three including her boyfriend who were spotted near the ship in the early hours of the morning.

She denied hurling the cat into the water, but Camberwell Green Youth Court heard that a security guard recognised her distinctive outfit.

The court also heard, at an earlier hearing during which the youngster was found guilty of an offence contravening the Animal Welfare Act, that the girl's boyfriend had written her a letter offering to take the blame.

The youngster, who giggled throughout the hearing, also denied claims by police that all three were drinking heavily on the night the cat was drowned.

She was ordered to complete a nine-month supervision order by District Judge Sue Green who also insisted that the teenager write a letter of apology to the staff of HMS Belfast.

Judge Green said: "The offence is one which has caused enormous distress not merely to staff of HMS Belfast but a lot of right-minded members of the public who were upset by your disgraceful behaviour."

Judge Green said that she expected the youngster "whether she liked it or not to write a letter of apology to staff from HMS Belfast and I would like a copy of that letter sent to me".

Pc Scott Jarmy, the officer in charge of the case, said that the staff of HMS Belfast had received correspondence from around the world commiserating them for their loss.

He said that in the days after Kilo's death the ship's second cat Oscar, also a rescue cat, had disappeared himself and is believed to have made his home elsewhere.

Pc Jarmy said: "We were hoping for a brief custodial sentence. She showed contempt for the legal process by laughing during the trial and today but hopefully she will learn from what happened."

Asked by the court whether she had anything to say, the youngster said: "I don't know what to say, I'm sorry for what happened."

[herakles]

The lost generation. They're not all bad. Get this girl out of circulation - no I don't mean gaol - and show her how the others live and what is expected of living within society. Punishment is useless. The writing of a letter is a good idea - assuming she can write.

[Jan Steer]

No, I don't think she is sorry for what she did but she is sorry that she got caught doing it and that is something altogether different!
Jan

[vivian]

Thanks for that update Tim. There is some justice, but nothing they can do that will really make a difference. There is that segment of society who just "don't get it" and never will.

I agree with you Jan, she is just sorry that she was caught and writing a letter will just be something else she can laugh about.

regards
Vivian

[astraltrader]

I agree Richard that a custodial sentence would be useless.

I think that a new way of thinking regarding suitable punishment is needed.

Perhaps parading her around for a day with a placard of her horrible crime hung about her neck might give her an idea of the revulsion felt by people in general about this sort of cruelty. I feel sure she would think twice before doing such a thing again.

One has to wonder what her parent[s] had to say about this - probably they should have been in the dock with her.

[herakles]

The inescapable truth is that this child, like so many others, is a product of her society and her parents. And it's a never ending cycle. For instance, we learn to be sorry - to take responsibility for our actions.

But how to break it? What needs to change? A return to "the good old days" perhaps? What was different then? One thing - at that time, I called everyone over the age of 21 "sir" and it was quite natural that I did.

[Jan Steer]

I am reading all your comments with interest and I feel, as I'm sure you all do, that what is needed is a change of attitude by our society. Those that must set an example are the authority figures with help of course from the rest of us. Sometime ago I suggested to some local magistrates that instead of prison, offenders should be put to work in the local community painting old folks bungalows, repairing pavements or whatever. They all agreed with me until I added that these criminals should be made to wear orange jump suits with "CRIMINAL" displayed on the back and there names in capitals over the breast pocket. Shock! Horror of horrors! The magistrates could not believe that anyone would seek to stigmatise these people in this way. What was Mr. Steer thinking of!!
See what we are up against chaps?
regards
Jan

[astraltrader]

I agree Jan - it is almost as if our society has a death wish with our present system of punishment options.

[herakles]

Only yesterday an English man was jailed for giving his young son a smack on the leg for running away after dusk.

[iantownsend]

I'm a new member (see "son of an old salt"). My Dad was on the Belfast from 1942 to 1944. Attached is one of his photos showing what the old girl went through in the north atlantic.
Ian

[jbryce1437]

Welcome to the Forum Ian and thanks for sharing that chilly looking photograph with us. It gives a graphic illustration of the conditions that the crews endured in the Arctic.

[Dannemois]

Seeking information on HMS Belfast post war. Interested in dates Dec 48 to April 49. Appreciate any help given

regards
roy

[slingerspark]

this is my first reply to a post, but I know what I would like to do to that young BRAT because thats all she is. the minority of youngsters these days think that things like that are funny, but he majority are very good but the others think everything is all a good laugh oooooohhhh!!! i could get on my high horse but I think i will leave it there slinger

[John Odom]

I am recently retired as a high school chemistry teacher. In our school, we had the fewest fights, and generally the best discipline of any school in the district. Teachers were required to treat students with respect. I promised my students I would do that on the first day of each term. Whe one disrespected me I talked to them privately after class. It worked. I was seldom disrespected a second time.

Once I was sent to another school to hold an in-service work-shop for teachers, this school had a vacant classroom for the workshop, ours did not..

It was terrible. I heard teachers cussing students, and there were several fights in the hall outside the room where I was holding the workshop. Teachers were calling the students derogatory names both to their face and behind their backs. The teachers speech was filled with profanity. Adults are partly to blame for our kids behavior.

My son is now 50, and I was always, and occasionally still am, complimented on how polite he was/is. Sir, and Ma'am were used by his parents, and he learned it. My last principal used to dress me down (gently) for calling her Ma'am. I told her I couldn't help it, it was now automatic! (She was 12 years my Junior, but my superior.)

[Benbow]

Bring Back the Cat !!!!

The Cat O Nine Tails, Spare the rod ,spoil the child. The PC Brigade have made the world a miserable place and these young hoods know there is no punishment to fit any crime.:mad:

What a sad cruel little girl she must be? In a few years she will have offspring that will be even worse under their mothers tutorlidge. :(

We are in a downword spiral and I don't know where the last step is!

These 3 youths seem have a life it would seem that revolves around Anarchy !

[BECA@CLEAR.NET.NZ]

Judge orders girl to write apology for killing HMS Belfast's cat A teenager who drowned a rescue cat adopted by the crew of HMS Belfast has been ordered to write a letter of apology as part of a nine-month supervision order.


Last Updated: 8:07PM GMT 14 Nov 2008

The 16-year-old, wearing a distinctive white hoodie, was spotted by a security guard throwing the animal into the Thames from a gang plank connecting the ship to its dock in London.

Kilo, who was rescued from Battersea Dogs and Cats Home, has not been seen since February 9 and is missing presumed dead.

The teenager, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was part of a gang of three including her boyfriend who were spotted near the ship in the early hours of the morning.

She denied hurling the cat into the water, but Camberwell Green Youth Court heard that a security guard recognised her distinctive outfit.

The court also heard, at an earlier hearing during which the youngster was found guilty of an offence contravening the Animal Welfare Act, that the girl's boyfriend had written her a letter offering to take the blame.

The youngster, who giggled throughout the hearing, also denied claims by police that all three were drinking heavily on the night the cat was drowned.

She was ordered to complete a nine-month supervision order by District Judge Sue Green who also insisted that the teenager write a letter of apology to the staff of HMS Belfast.

Judge Green said: "The offence is one which has caused enormous distress not merely to staff of HMS Belfast but a lot of right-minded members of the public who were upset by your disgraceful behaviour."

Judge Green said that she expected the youngster "whether she liked it or not to write a letter of apology to staff from HMS Belfast and I would like a copy of that letter sent to me".

Pc Scott Jarmy, the officer in charge of the case, said that the staff of HMS Belfast had received correspondence from around the world commiserating them for their loss.

He said that in the days after Kilo's death the ship's second cat Oscar, also a rescue cat, had disappeared himself and is believed to have made his home elsewhere.

Pc Jarmy said: "We were hoping for a brief custodial sentence. She showed contempt for the legal process by laughing during the trial and today but hopefully she will learn from what happened."

Asked by the court whether she had anything to say, the youngster said: "I don't know what to say, I'm sorry for what happened."

I really do despair at incidents such as this because it is so indicative of the way things are now. What is society doing wrong when this sort of thing is not a rare event? I am not P.C., I admit it! I feel like throwing this excuse for a human being into the river after the cat!

[mik43]

As has been commented on elsewhere on the forum, the PC and do-gooder brigades have ensured that these **** know that they will get away with whatever crime they commit with a slap on the wrist or someother nanby-pamby punishment. Even if they re-offend they know that it will only be another slap on the wrist etc. As for not being named because of their age, if their old enough to do such a despicable deed, then they should be named.
I'm not a great lover of cats because they use my garden as a toilet, but in no way do I condone such an act as this.
Mik

[astraltrader]

And as I have said elsewhere - if underage then their parents names should be published as well.

[herakles]

As usual, there's been no follow-up to this story. Well, none that I have found. Did the wretched girl write the letter?

[astraltrader]

Same as you Richard - no more info.
Once the media have their money full of shock-horror, they are looking for the next outrage rather than as you say following the story through.
I cant speak for anybody else - but I feel the need for some closure over this.

For example I would love to hear that the caretaker[s] of Belfast had got hold of a pair of unwanted cats and given them a new home - so at least some good could come out of this...

[vivian]

I would like to see what this girl actually writes that would be counted as a meaningful apology, not that I think it will mean anything to her. As for punishments, if the judges would just apply what the law already allows we might be getting somewhere, but they don't or they won't.

regards
Vivian

[doug.birch]

I think this is a case for the Cat of Nine Tails, a dispicable act of cruelty
Doug.Birch.

[astraltrader]

I see merit in both of what you say - but I still would like to see that two unwanted cats had found a home in the Belfast and that a great tradition has not been abandoned because of a despicable and mindless act of cruelty.

No matter what else does or does not come from the previous vile and sad act, this has to be the bottom line.

"Out of darkness, cometh light."

A fine saying that I know will find favour in one of our members at least.

[CGRET]

I to see the merit in that in some form or another.

Here in the States that form of cruely not tolerated in any form. Moreover, If in this case if the parental control is not up to level it should be then, "maybe" the parent's in conjunction with this child should be held accountable and NOT left up to the court's to give guidance on proper conduct in the public domain.... It is sad that this young generation is in some case's a wild bunch of kid's out of control!


Regards
CGRET

[herakles]

I've suggested one possible solution here: http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3232

[astraltrader]

Yes we have all discussed solutions. I was just trying to put across an additional need which I felt was as well as being an admirable sentiment was also a vital consideration for the future.

The need to ensure that the keeping of a ships cat or cats on Belfast was not lost because of this outrage.

Sadly despite mentioning this twice all that came back were the same views that whilst I totally agree with them, have already been mentioned.

[herakles]

Here's a thought for you Terry. Maybe some of the English members could donate a cat (or two) to HMS Belfast on behalf of all the members. Assuming that they don't have any now.

[John Odom]

On the subject of animal cruelty, I have a non-naurical story from another era of my life.

For many years, I worked as a fire and explosion investigator in the private sector. I mostly worked for insurance companies. There was a lot of Arson here in Tennessee, and it was seldom prosecuted. The state had only three investigators.

Shelbyville Tennessee is the center of the Tennessee walking horse industry. Everybody there is in some way connected to the horse business.

One day I got a call to investigare a fire near Shelbyville. When I got there I found the house had been soaked in kerosene, but the fire had gone out because there was too little air. The windows were all closed. During the fire there had been a horse tethered between the house and the garage, The horse had injuries from pulling on its halter and lead.

The Insurance company denied the claim and sued for a declaratory Judgement that they did not have to pay, and we won that case. The District Attorney agreed to prosecute a criminal case on the charge of arson. We thought we had a fool-proof case, but we lost. The maximum penalty then for arson was 5 years. We couldn't bring a criminal case for arson again, because of the double jeopardy prohibition. The DA then got the Idea of prosecuting for cruelty to the horse. The penalty for that was 15 years. We won. Everyone was up in arms over cruelty to the horse, but seemed to think Arson was OK!

[tim lewin]

Dear All,
As you know I do various things to help the Belfast where the ship's director is a good friend. Years ago when HMS Corunna came to the end of her seagoing days the owners presented my father with her wheel, actually the emergency steering position aft wheel which was up on the Staag deck. A kindly chippy (was it one of you?) made a spindle for it and turned it into a glass-topped coffee table which followed him around the MoD until he retired and then went into his office at home where it annoyed everyone who walked past because they caought their legs in the spokes. After he died there was no room at my house for it and it sadly languished in my barn until one day the Belfast director bemoaned to me that when his ship had been handed over someone had made off with the tandem wheels of the emergency steering position to make coffee tables. "A-ha! a goood home if ever i though of one, an a nice reversal of fortune. A ship's wheel belongs in a ship, not under a coffee cup. Duly presented, he drove off with it securely lashed to the spare wheel of his Morgan promising joy in the fullness of time; we have waited a year or so while the machinery, and wheel, were renovated. This has just been finished, here are a couple of shots, tomorrow we will wet the baby's head and I'll take a few more for you. Corunna's wheel is the nearest one.
I think it looks absolutely fine, the old chap would be pleased as punch, he served in Belfast from her commissioning to mining in 1939.
The steering position is in the centre of the Admiral's flat, directly above the rudder, directly below the centre of the quarterdeck.
tim

[oldsalt]

Well done Tim, every time I visit London I try to go around Belfast again.

[tim lewin]

Here is the actual wheel in 1956 aboard Corunna. The ship was always heavy to steer to starboard which given my father's predilection for dramatic manouvres caused greif to the QM. He had the chippy onboard replace the king-spoke of the wheel in the wheelhouse with one several inches longer so that when the order came down the voicepipe "Stbd 20" he could stand askance to the wheel and heave it over fast enough to put the lee rail under.

Further back in the posts on Corunna and steering there is the mystery story of the "steering breakdown" in the river leading up to Belfast.
tim

[tim lewin]

Dear All,
Some time ago we launched an appeal in Russia to try to raise funding to replace both of the masts aboard HMS Belfast, the existing ones are just too degraded by time and tide to be repairable. The rationale behind this was to comemorate Belfast's two years of service on the Kola run (on which she was usually supported by the Tribals). This service culminated in the Battle of North Cape and the sinking of the Scharnhorst on Boxing Day 1943. The idea was to have the masts made from Russian steel, by Russian engineers in a Russian shipyard close to Archangelsk, all very symbolic. The finished items would be shipped in sections to London in a Russian flag ship and then the old one would be removed by a floating crane alongside and the new ones lifted into place. We succeeded in gaining support from then-President Putin and the cabinet and some donations from industrialists but unfortunately the economic wind changed and there is now no longer the abundance of cash in Russia that there was when we started.
To help us with the appeal I enlisted the help of a group of Russian artists and film technicians to make a short DVD. I wrote the script, the IWM and the ship provided the materials and images, they did the rest. To launch the appeal we had a party in Moscow in the British Embassy which the Ambassador Sir Anthony Brenton kindly put at our disposal. The party was a huge media success and raised a lot of interest in the project but unfortunately not too much in extra loot! The video we displayed on a big screen greatly impressed one ofthe Embassy's youg security people who went on to post it on You Tube which I discovered only yesterday. Here is the link, it is in russian but there are sub-titles.

http://mft39.multiply.com/video/item/56/The British Royal Navy ship HMS Belfast

this would not cut/paste so i had to re-type it myself so i hope it works for you. Will try to C&P later.
I will post some pictures of the party later; the booze at the event was sponsored by Russkiy Standard vodka which you can now buy in UK supermarkets, and Massandra Wines from the Crimea, the estate built by Nicholas II to make wine for his own palaces.
good luck with the link
tim

[Toby]

Hi - I'm new at this but I'm trying to research my family tree, and have some meagre forces information. Apparently my paternal grandfather was a Major in the Royal Marine Commandos, and at some point on the Belfast, and his father was a Chief Petty Officer and at some point associated with HMS Vivid.

I would be really grateful if anyone has any ideas as to how I might go about researching this!

Toby

[qprdave]

Hi Toby

Welcome to the forum

The best way to start is to get their Service Records. Below is a link showing you how to go about it.

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3131

Use the search facility on this website (top of the page) and put in Vivid and Belfast, individually, of course. Don't put HMS before as the search facility won't look for 3 digit words.

Good luck on your search

[Toby]

Thanks very much for the answer. I shall send off for more information though I have no idea as to dates/periods!

Toby

[hmshero]

In 1939 my father, the newest officer in the Navy joined HMS Belfast, the newest cruiser in the Navy. Here are some contemporary pictures of those times. Stories will follow.
tim

Hi Tim,

Love the pictures of Belfast. My Dad was on board for the same time that your Dad was. Dad was a submarine detector. He claimed that in his short sea going wartime career that he sank a U-boat but was never given credit for it. Do you have any knowledge of the Belfast ever attacking a U-boat? For the remainder of the war he was shore based.

Regards,

Ken Ettie
ken_ettie@hotmail.com

[Don Boyer]

In the early summer of 1962, I was living in Pearl City, Hawaii, next to Pearl Harbor. I used to ride my bike over to the navy base and hang out on weekends with friends. I saw HMS Belfast there, moored at the pier close to Merry Point landing. She was and is the only British warship I've ever seen up close and personal. All the RN and RAN ships in Singapore I saw from a distance four years later. I seem to remember that her paint had a greenish cast to it compared to the duller gray of the US Navy vessels in harbor at the time (which included the heavy cruiser St. Paul). Pear harbor's waters can take on a greenish cast, so I wonder if this impression was more reflective than anything -- didn't RN ships on the China station wear a white paint scheme???

[astraltrader]

Thats right Don - white to fo's'c'le deck level, medium grey above, or sometimes all white.

I am not sure when it changed.

[Chris Howat]

Was not buff used for some upperworks?

[Scurs]

Don.............I remember USS ST PAUL, she was on opposite side of jetty to us (HMS CEYLON), in Hong Kong........1959, and we were berthed "69" (our bows ,opposite her stern). Shortly after that we sailed for home, having been relieved by HMS BELFAST, whom in 1959 at least, was painted standard RN light grey.

[tim lewin]

dear Ken, just seen our post; let me investigate with the museum and get back to you. this could be a whole new story!
tim
PS I visit the ship frequently, the director is a good friend, so i will try to take some pics for you next time, this will be week after next.

[Boilers]

When they brought the Belfast home for a refit.

Great photo !!

[Stan.J]

I think all ex-Naval men consider the paint used on H.M.Ships was nicknamed "Crabfat". Cheers,Stan

[Don Boyer]

Don.............I remember USS ST PAUL, she was on opposite side of jetty to us (HMS CEYLON), in Hong Kong........1959, and we were berthed "69" (our bows ,opposite her stern). Shortly after that we sailed for home, having been relieved by HMS BELFAST, whom in 1959 at least, was painted standard RN light grey.

"69"? Why (blush) we always referred to it as a "Chinese landing." Wonder where that came from? :)

St. Paul and Los Angeles were in and out of Pearl a lot in those days. They were the last all-gun Baltimores in service. Only the Newport News lasted longer as a gun ship. I miss ships like that...big gun bruisers, who's main function was so obvious compared to todays pared-down sleek vessels with their minimal gun armament and missiles tucked away in vertical launchers.

Terry and all: Thanks for clairifying the paint scheme. That pale off-green tint I remember after all these years was simply reflective.

Regards,

[Scurs]

Don...........bit off topic........but...............SEATO Exercise 1959..............long line of warships line astern. Do you recall, PTA's (Pilotless Target Aircraft) used in AA Shoots?
At each "pass" the next ship in line fired at it...............Head of Line, our friend ST PAUL, followed by ROCHESTER, CEYLON, NEWFOUNDLAND, ROYALIST - all Cruisers........then enough Destroyers & Frigates to start a small war.

Each ship fired - PTA flew on happily.........until..........right at end of line came HMS ALERT, no gunnery radar, no gunnery director, One Twin 4" more for display than threat - Bang, one shot............splash one PTA! It had defied the combined firepower of all !

[tim lewin]

Dear Scurs, watching a historic video of the development of the Gloster Meteor the other day there was a bit about the 'planes success at downing V1 bombs; the clip showed a V1 flying straing and level at a fixed speed/heading with a massive amount of artillery blasting away at it and missing every time; a chap with a shotgun might have done better.

[Scurs]

Tim............way back when............either I read it somewhere, or was told it on a course......was the fact that the MRS3 with associate 965 radar, was the first AA system in the RN whereby radar was the PRIMARY mode of control (hitherto VISUAL had been), and even then, the accuracy rate was around 48%!!

On the strength of the above statement, one of the articles I wrote for 2nd Commission, HMS AJAX, Magazine was titled "What goes up, usually misses" :D

[Don Boyer]

Don...........bit off topic........but...............SEATO Exercise 1959..............long line of warships line astern. Do you recall, PTA's (Pilotless Target Aircraft) used in AA Shoots?
At each "pass" the next ship in line fired at it...............Head of Line, our friend ST PAUL, followed by ROCHESTER, CEYLON, NEWFOUNDLAND, ROYALIST - all Cruisers........then enough Destroyers & Frigates to start a small war.

Each ship fired - PTA flew on happily.........until..........right at end of line came HMS ALERT, no gunnery radar, no gunnery director, One Twin 4" more for display than threat - Bang, one shot............splash one PTA! It had defied the combined firepower of all !

The big boys occasionally need their hawse pipes rubbed in it to bring out the best in the gunnery departments! I would bet words were said by Captains to gunnery officers after, and their must have been some good ribbing! :) I would bet HMS Alert had an expert war-trained gunnery team.

1959 was before my time, but I know all the ships. Rochester has always been my all-time favorite American heavy cruiser with her two sisters Albany and the strangely abandoned Oregon City. These modified Baltimore-class ships were completed too late to see duty in WWII, but their compacted bridge structures, designed to clear arcs of fire for the AA battery, and single stack made for particularly handsome ships. Rochester served in the Pacific for many years as a flagship. My father as an Air Force Captain rode Rochester from Japan to Viet Nam as part of one of the first Military Assistance Groups we sent over there.

[astraltrader]

I agree with Don about the Rochester being the most handsome of all the American heavy cruisers.

Without any doubt she was a beautifully proportioned ship.

This picture shows her as she was in 1957.

[Don Boyer]

And that's my very favorite photo of Rochester, probably the best ever taken of her. Modified slightly from her "as built" condition with the removal of a quad 40 mm. (now a twin 3"/50 cal.) from amidships to expand office space for her flagship role. She would soon loose the bow twin 3 inch as well, as it was always getting damaged in heavy seas. Fast, sleek, powerful, the epitome of what a heavy cruiser was!

Thanks for the post, Terry.
Regards,

[NASAAN101]

Guys,
dumb question about Belfast! when she took scharnie on in 1943, was she the one to finish her off? she was also, in Korean War..
Nikki

[hmshero]

dear Ken, just seen our post; let me investigate with the museum and get back to you. this could be a whole new story!
tim
PS I visit the ship frequently, the director is a good friend, so i will try to take some pics for you next time, this will be week after next.

Tim,

I had the pleasure of visiting the Belfast in 2002 and was given special permission to visit the ASDIC room. What a thrill to see where my dad had worked and "was blown up". Dad said that the ship rose so high in the water that when it settled he and many others found themselves temporarily pinned to the ceiling. What a surprise that must have been.

Ken

[hmshero]

Guys,
dumb question about Belfast! when she took scharnie on in 1943, was she the one to finish her off? she was also, in Korean War..
Nikki

A little off topic perhaps, and simply a note of interest, but my uncle was a gunner on the KGV and was sickened by the carnage. He did what he had to do but there is no glory in killing especially when you consider how many times the Bismarck was hit. He visited with the Bismarck survivors some years ago, as a special guest, when a TV documentary was made of the event. When asked about them all he said was "they were a fine bunch of lads".

Co-incidentally one of my friends father and two uncles were on the Bismarck. The uncles did not survive. This tends to change one's perspective on the matter.

Of course one cannot take such events out of context or one's perspective becomes distorted but we should not lose sight of the human element.

[Rob Hoole]

Here's me on board HMS Belfast last Thursday (I'm the one on the right).

The female Medical Services officer is Lt Cdr Jan Ouvry, grand-daughter of Cdr John Ouvry DSO RN who was the first to render safe a German magnetic mine in WW II. See entry for 27 Nov 09 on the 'Latest News (http://www.mcdoa.org.uk/News_Frames.htm)' page of the MCDOA website for further information and photos of this commemorative event.

[hmshero]

Here's me on board HMS Belfast last Thursday (I'm the one on the right).


The female Medical Services officer is Lt Cdr Jan Ouvry, grand-daughter of Cdr John Ouvry DSO RN who was the first to render safe a German magnetic mine in WW II. See entry for 27 Nov 09 on the 'Latest News (http://www.mcdoa.org.uk/News_Frames.htm)' page of the MCDOA website for further information and photos of this commemorative event.

I see behind you the ship's bell. Can anyone tell me how this is so when the Belfast's bell is on display at the Ulster Transport Museum near Belfast?

[Pusser509]

That is a silver bell presented to the ship by the (I think) City of Belfast. Most large ships have several bells. The frigates I served in had at least two, one for harbour use and a "christening" bell which has engraved on it the names of children christened on board. I have a better photo of the silver bell, but I would have to re-size it in order to post it.

Cheers

Don

[Big Al]

I was in the Quarterdeck Guard on Belfast in 1971 when she was handed over in the Pool of London. On completion we were allowed to tour the ship and see what the accomodation and messdecks were like. Being a Gunner the most interesting parts were of course the TS and the Turrets. We wre also lashed up to free beer which went down exceedingly well. I have tried to find the photographs taken but to no avail.

[Rob Hoole]

By the by, the officer responsible for delivering HMS Belfast to her current berth near Tower Bridge was Lt Cdr Robbie Robinson MBE, RN, a dear old friend now deceased. He was a fascinating character and his DT obituary here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1456681/Lt-Cdr-Robbie-Robinson.html) is well worth reading.

[jbryce1437]

Nice to read his obit. He must have been a nice man.

Jim

[tim lewin]

the silver bell aboard HMS Belfast was presented to her when she was commissioned by the City of Belfast but then put into store when the war began, very shortly afterwards, and a standard pussers brass bell issued for war service. After war service the brass bell was replaced by the "Belfast" bell. If you look inside the rim you will find the names of the 54 childred who were christened aboard during her service. This silver bell was refurbished a couple of years ago and the names re-inscribed as was the lettering as years of elbow grease was wearing them away. I forget the excact weight of the silver but I think its in the region of 34 kilos, very heavy, you wouldn't run very far carrying it!
tim

[emason]

Pardon my ignorance, but why would christenings take place on board RN ships? Is this a Navy tradition for serving seaman's children?

[oldsalt]

Pardon my ignorance, but why would christenings take place on board RN ships? Is this a Navy tradition for serving seaman's children?

There is a long standing tradition of having christenings onboard, the ships bell inverted is used & the childs name engraved on the bell. My son was christened in Tiger, I don't know the origin of this tradition, but I expect someone will give an explanation.

[emason]

I have just found this thread Tim and viewed the video - it worked fine. The contemporary footage of the Belfast and Scharnhorst was particularly interesting. I thought the Battle of the North Cape was covered well in the time available, simplified perhaps but all the essentials were there. Pity the second line of subtitles was clipped though.

How is the appeal going?

[jbryce1437]

Although the site says that the clip lasts for 13 minutes. It appeared to stop after 2 minutes. Some nice footage on view.

Jim

[emason]

Although the site says that the clip lasts for 13 minutes. It appeared to stop after 2 minutes. Some nice footage on view.

I noticed that it stops and starts again. Try again and wait a bit longer.

[jbryce1437]

Many thanks Bill, tried a couple of more times with AOL and it wouldnt run past two minutes. Managed to view it with Firefox though;)
Jim

[TheNavyWouldNotHaveMe]

On the occasions Belfast has been moved to drydock for maintenance, has she been towed as essentially an inert object, or has she had manual / emergency stearing ?

[INVINCIBLE]

She was last moved over seven years ago when she was towed to Portsmouth for docking and painting. She has no power and therefore depended entirely upon the tow. I had an office onboard BELFAST at the time and we were moved ashore to Tooley Street for the period of the docking. It was quite impressive to see her being towed under Tower Bridge and then brought back.

[astraltrader]

I know it is a ludicrous idea but I wonder what it would both take and cost to get her back to full working order??!!

[tonclass]

Just wish she could be re-docked and that ridiculous paint-scheme removed. She looks awful dazzle-painted in her current build !!!!!!

[Scurs]

Terry...........get her back in working order? Be cheaper to build a couple more aircraft carriers (large) I reckon! :D

[astraltrader]

Probably right my friend! :)

[Don Boyer]

I was wondering about that...who decided to put her in the Atlantic camo scheme Belfast is in? I think the decided to put the USS North Carolina in a camo scheme as well. All that does is cost more money for paint.

I liked the paint scheme Belfast had in her last visit to Pearl Harbor. That very light paint color made her the bell of the ball in harbor that week! Made the American gray even duller looking. :)

[astraltrader]

We did as well Don.

Sadly the decision to paint her in "wartime dazzle" was probably a misguided attempt to make her more attractive to tourists!!

[NASAAN101]

Terry,
Bite me:P i like the color she has..
Nikki

[Krieg1981]

I know it is a ludicrous idea but I wonder what it would both take and cost to get her back to full working order??!!

That would be fantastic!

[Jackaroo]

Why not move HMS Belfast to the new RN museum?

[steve roberts]

Hi Jackaroo.I think the RNA london would complain bitterly about that! Their branch uses the Wardroom for their meetings!!...Steve:rolleyes:

[Jackaroo]

Hi Jackaroo.I think the RNA london would complain bitterly about that! Their branch uses the Wardroom for their meetings!!...Steve:rolleyes:

They can move somewhere else:D

[Dave Hutson]

But then Jackaroo they would have to shell out for the meeting place.:eek:

My sis's office is adjacent to her berth and she recently had lunch on board. Said it was a great tour but still couldn't see why her brothers spent years in grey boxes on rough waters. Girls !!! I ask yer :confused:

Invincible - You probably knew Scouse Hill [Ronnie - Ex Chief Sparker] who operated the RNARS station on board, usually over the Easter Weekends ??

Dave H

[tim lewin]

some of you might remember our long fought campaign, actually slightly longer that the real campaign, to bring the plight of Belfast's masts to the awareness ofr our Russian friends in recognition of her two years on the Artic convoys. Well, I am delighted to tell you that results are now a-coming. The Russian Government and big industry has heard our call and in swinging into action. This report from the Evening Standard will hopefully be the first of several culminating in the full job being accomplished. I shall keep you all closely informed and with pictures as the situation develops.
In the words of the Admiralty to Adm B.F. aboard Duke of York after hearing of the sinking of the Scharnhorst "Grand, well done"....

Which was followed by a signal from Adm. Fraser to "uncle Bob" aboard Belfast, "I'm off to Russia, follow me when you can"!!
tim

[steve roberts]

Hi Tim.That's great news! No more than the grand old lady deserves...Regards Steve.:)

[ekd]

Any chance of some Russian money for a new car, for an ex Belfast lad?

Yes, that's the Belfast in the background (see foto), just having been moved from Whale Island to No3 basin in 1970.
I was living on H.M.S. Belfast at the time, (Bellerophon accomodation ship); whilst we readied H.M.S. Palliser from reserve.

I was going on leave on the Friday, the day this event happened.

I normally parked my car in Whale Island whilst the Belfast was in reserve there.
The Belfast had been earmarked for the London museum job, and had to made safe for the public beforehand, hence the requirement to be worked on in No3 basin.
Because the Belfast was being cold moved into No3 basin, and my car was in the Whale island car park, I thought that it was going to give me a headstart in the Pompey traffic on Friday, if I moved my car around to the No3 basin area the night before, and get a flyer. This would save time in getting the ferry back from the dockyard to Whale Island to retrieve my car.

What a BIG mistake!

During the Thursday night at around 2 am, a stoker on a tug, berthed on the sea wall, went on deck for a smoke.

He saw about four drunken "sailors?" break into my car, remove the guard-rails of the basin, and push the car into the dock.
If he had not seen this, my car would still be there, I expect.

As we berthed Belfast alongside on Friday, I was piped to the Gangway. I was met by a Dockyard Admiralty Constable. "Is that your car?" and he pointed over the starboard side. I was just in time to see this photo being taken!

Nobody was ever charged with anything. But the tug guy said they headed for a County class destroyer, berthed nearby.

It ruined my leave. I'd just put a new engine in it. I was back on the train.

Happy days!

Yes, great and happy memories of the Belfast, despite this episode.


regards

[Guz rating]

Thats a real sad story mate, I thought that kind of thing only happened to me. Did you ever get the car working again.

Guz

[steve roberts]

That sounds like one of the many pranks that we used to get up to on returning from shore. Usually nothing as serious as your episode. It was mostly trying to nick your "Chummy" ships lifebelt at the top of the brow, or indeed trying to slip her mooring wires(an Impossible task sober never mind drunk). I was involved in an incident when on Hermes in Hamburg. Drunk as a skunk, I was stood alongside the ship trying to throttle a poor inoffensive German road sweeper (Who happened to be wearing a Uniform) and demanding to know what he had done with my ship! The Gangway staff were in stitches, and the bosuns mate was sent down to rescue the poor bloke and drag me back on board!!! Happy days...Regards Steve.:D

[ekd]

Thats a real sad story mate, I thought that kind of thing only happened to me. Did you ever get the car working again.

Guz

No, Guz. I just couldn't afford the time. The corrosion from the salt water had caused too much damage. I just claimed on the insurance, and bought another. I made sure how and where I parked it from then on!

regards

[tim lewin]

wandering away from Belfast but reflecting on parking, portsmouth and Hermes; my father once parked the family navy blue cortina alongside H whilst at pompey while the mast was being painted, we were still picking off the tiny grey spots when it was sold for a mark 2 cortina years later. (He was a cortina fan, we went right through to a mark 4 and then after a passt interlude, back to a mondeo)
tim

[steve roberts]

Hi Tim.Remembering your Father,I bet he just put it down to his own fault for parking there! Some Skippers would have gone raging mad!...Regards Steve.:)

[harry.gibbon]

That sounds like one of the many pranks that we used to get up to on returning from shore. Usually nothing as serious as your episode. It was mostly trying to nick your "Chummy" ships lifebelt at the top of the brow, or indeed trying to slip her mooring wires(an Impossible task sober never mind drunk). I was involved in an incident when on Hermes in Hamburg. Drunk as a skunk, I was stood alongside the ship trying to throttle a poor inoffensive German road sweeper (Who happened to be wearing a Uniform) and demanding to know what he had done with my ship! The Gangway staff were in stitches, and the bosuns mate was sent down to rescue the poor bloke and drag me back on board!!! Happy days...Regards Steve.:D

You Bl..dy medics, always knew there was a killer instinct in you!!! :p
Bet thats why they stopped letting you lot use the tourniquet:eek:
"Aaah yes, this looks like the best way to stop that blood pumpin out of his foot ...lets put the contrivance round this narrow part 'between his chin and his shoulders' ... tighten it up and that should clog up them two carotid arterial routes, oh yeh might as well give them two vertibral pipes round the back there a wee pinch as well while we are at it":(
"Look I told you so .. his 'sole' has all dried up:D job done"...
"Lets get a few more hundred geezers and scratch one of their arms and make holes in the other we can say it's preventative medicine":D

Little h

[steve roberts]

Now Now Little H. No need for disparaging remarks like that.Wot would we 'ave done all day,if you lot didn't want a few days of watch,and a sleep in anice sick bay bunk?As for the holes in your arm.We had to keep our darts eye in for a game o' arrow's ashore? Many regards Steve.:D

[tim lewin]

Absolutely right, or even "spot on"! i think a tiddley ship was better than a shiny car. Driving him home still in uniform once from H at portsmouth we passed through Cowdray Park where the village street were lined with waving people, we waved back and carried on. Only when we got home we worked out that HRH had been playing polo there that day and that everyone was so used to seeing him in uniform in a dark-coloured car they automatically thought we were him! I should add that I was wearing my "beatle cap" fashionable at the time...

[Don Boyer]

ekd --- what a story! Over here in "my" navy, we have our pranks too, but it seems a bit much to cost a mate a car just for a laugh. Still, I have to say, seeing the photo of the car with Belfast in the background does cause a bit of a chuckle. Sorry it happened though, imagine it set you back a tad.

Tim: Good to hear Belfast is getting the attention it needs. I know we don't know each other that well, but something tells me you had more to do with that turn of events than you are posting.

Any chance they'll ever put her back in her original paint???

Take care, friends

[Vegaskip]

While working in Air Traffic Control at Arbroath, I was sent up to paint the railings round the roof and the flag pole. Finished the railings, but complained it was too windy to do the pole, told to get on with it so feeling a bit 'bloody minded', I did....Spent the afternoon with rags and white spirit,but with great satisfaction of 'I told you so!'

[tim lewin]

Thanks Don, to cut a very long story short it all began at a christmas party 3-4 years ago, at least well down over the horizon of memory now. Somewhere around the third glass of claret i found myself in conversation with the consulting engineer for the Museum who was bemoaning the state of the masts and that there was no budget to fix them.

Around this time the Russian steel industry was going great guns making money hand over fist so in an expansive gesture I asked him if he had ever though of asking the Russians. (sine qua non that Belfast had a long and intertwined history with them via Arctic convoys etc). He replied that he didn't know any and wouldn't know where to start. Knowing hundreds of Russians from my experience working there i said leave it to me and we'll have it done in a trice. Ha-ha....Russia is not a country where "trices" are much recognised.

We put our heads together and came up with a plan, and a project name of "Last Witness" for understandable reasons. We decided to prepare a document for general circulation (PDF attached which for some unaccountable reason has 2 copies the same). We later used this as the story board and commentary in Russian for a DVD. The DVD is on the web somewhere, it was made by a group of Russian artists. I will try to find it and re-post it later.

Initially we got some seed-money from some of the Russian industrialists but the main reaction was that the Govt would rather see charity funding be directed to Russian projects at home which was quite understandable, they urged us to get Govt approval of the project. This was not as easy as it sounds. Eventually we found our way to put the files on the desk of the President who immediately approved for us to seek funding from Russian industry. We held a major launching reception in the British Embassy in Moscow to which we invited all the great and good we wanted to approach plus all the heads of the Russian Military. Sods law then determined that the top Russian football team was drawn to play a game in Manchester, UK, so on the night of the party which we had spent months planning, all those with the dosh were in Manchester while we had a splendid get together with the admirals, generals and military attaches! great blokes but bereft of cash.

Another attack was planned and put into operation, just in time for the global economy to collapse!

Now in 2010 we are into the 65th anniversary of the ending of the War; the Russians take these celebrations very very seriously and thus our project "Last Witness" has once more come alive, it ticks all boxes and give a great opportunity to remember how "When the fate of the World hung in the balance" we forgot politics and did the biz.

The rest is in the article but we will keep the story going in the press as we are not quite there yet. It is the mainmast that need replacing first as this is now almost supported by the scaffolding round it; the foremast is in better condition but not good enough to repair. The main expense is lass in the fabrication of the replicas than in the works to dismantle the old and re-fit the new while still keeping the ship open to the public.

So no you know what we get up to in our spare time!
tim

The pdf was written by me and several of the pics are from my cardboard box, the PQ18 pic of the bomb was taken from Ashanti's bridge. The young bloke in the duffel coat is my father in 1943. I took the contemporary pics with my little digital camera (now broken) so you see, anyone really can do anything. Its not brains that gets projects like ths done, its not knowing when you're beaten

[tim lewin]

http://mft39.multiply.com/video/item/56/The_British_Royal_Navy_ship_HMS_Belfast

this is the link to the video, it was put on the web by one of the young security people at the party in the Embassy.

[steve roberts]

Hi Tim.Thanks for those two links.It really shows the work put in to obtain funding for the project.Hope every thing goes well in getting the funds needed..Many regards. Steve.

[tim lewin]

THanks Steve, the next two big dates will be 24th March when the Russians come to present medals to veterans onboard, then May 9th which is Victory Day. In Russia Victory Day is a public holiday, they also have a public holiday for Armed Forces Day which was last week.....we are not so respectful

[JackW1208]

Well done Tim, I hope you have the success that Belfast richly deserves.

Jack

[tim lewin]

once things get going i will snow you all with photos of masts coming down , masts going up, veterans bemedalled and all the goings on that will be associated with the actions.
thanks for all the good wishes
tim

[INVINCIBLE]

But then Jackaroo they would have to shell out for the meeting place.:eek:

My sis's office is adjacent to her berth and she recently had lunch on board. Said it was a great tour but still couldn't see why her brothers spent years in grey boxes on rough waters. Girls !!! I ask yer :confused:

Invincible - You probably knew Scouse Hill [Ronnie - Ex Chief Sparker] who operated the RNARS station on board, usually over the Easter Weekends ??

Dave H


Dave,

Just seen your post. I think I met Ronnie once, but not absolutely sure. Fortunately BELFAST is used a great deal and over a number of years I was lucky enough to meet many of those who came onboard. Some RNA Branches used my office at the weekends for their meetings. The only shame was the high costs charged by the onboard caterers - I am sure that if their charges were more reasonable then many more worthy ex Service organisations would use this unique venue.

[tim lewin]

Dear All,
Today is the day we should find out how much we have impressed the Russians withour appeal to fund the replacement of the rusty masts. Attached is the programme fotr the event which will see a high-ranked official from the Russian President's administration present medals to a representative selection of veterans, several from the Belfast Association.

There was an article in yesterday's evening standard who are being very helpful with publicity on the project but since the Govt in its infinite capacity for helpfulness has decreed today will be the day they add to our misery by issuing the budget most of the journalists who had promised to come have been redrafted to Westmenister. Which would we prefer to hear about!!

I will post as many pics as possible tomorrow or friday.

Tim

[Don Boyer]

Tim: Hadn't come back to this post very quickly....but my congratulations on the culmination of such great effort. Things are looking good, and I find that it's truly great from my point of view. HMS Belfast is the only British warship I've ever been "up close" to, when she stopped in Pearl Harbor enroute home from the Chinas Station for the last time.

Well done. I look forward to reading the .pdf.

Regards,

[INVINCIBLE]

Tim,

Very good news.
I still do not like BELFAST in her "war paint". When I joined her she looked like this - so much more attractive!!

[TheNavyWouldNotHaveMe]

I'm thinking of building a model of Belfast as she is today. One area I'm struggling for pictures of is facing forwards, looking at the rear of the superstructure from the boat deck - effectively looking at the 'hangar doors' as was.

Anyone able to help with a picture or two ?

[tim lewin]

Is that a set of pics as she is now or as she was then? its no problem for me to send you all the pics you need as i am there more or less weekly, just say the period you need. Now pics are of course easier!

The event yesterday went very well;

the veterans, including some Russian, all got their gongs from Vladimir Osipov from the President's Administration. The ship got a special framed citation for her physical role as the "Last Witness" from President Medvedev in his capacity as Commander in Chief as well as President of Russia, signed and sealed in his own hand, and a copy of the signed Presidential order authorising support from Russia for the mast replacement project. This was presented by the Ambassador who was there with several of his staff. The shipyards and Lloyds Register were there ready to do the actual fabrication work and engineering so with a fair wind, all should now go ahead over the summer.
There was huge coverage on Russian TV, it was on all channels my friends in moscow called to say, but our own TV was pretty limp being overshadowed by Darling's utterly missable budget. The Evening Standard will cover it again today (i was told).
I left the picture taking to the ship's photographer so i hope to post these later today or tomorrow when they send them. Foolishly i dropped my digital camera a few months ago and havent got round to replacing it yet, it was one week outside its 3-year guarantee!
MacLaren stood above the boatdeck and piped his lament to HMS Edinburgh and the lost souls from the convoys; the Massandra winery gave some 1945 port to reception for the old chaps to drink a toast. There was a musical duo who played traditional Russian wartime tunes while the beautiful Russian lady journalist from the biggest circulation paper there danced with all of the old chaps to celebrate their medals. Admiral Alan West, Lord West, made a sterling speech, the 1st Sea Lord attended, Admiral Sir Jim Eberle was there as president of HMS Belfast Association, he served in her as a junior. A young Russian author, Ivan Mazur, who has written a book about the Arctic Convoys gave copies of his book to the veterans. I would say that it was a thoroughly comradely get-together which will ultimately deliver the goods in the shape of new masts. The mainmast must be done first, if it were not for the scaffolding genorously donated by SGB this would be a danger to life and limb.
All best and thanks to you all for the good wishes and support.
tim

[TheNavyWouldNotHaveMe]

Hi Tim - thanks for the offer. I'm looking at her 'as is' and I have a pretty good general set, plus loads downloaded from the web.

It was only when sorting them I realised that I didn't have any looking towards the 'hangar' ( cafe !) and I need to see how this changed after her refit.

[Don Boyer]

Congratulations Tim, on the culmination of the efforts to restore Belfast. We all know that you were the main driving force behind that all happening. I hope you receive the recognition you deserve for helping to preserve on of history's truly great ships.

We are all proud of what has been accomplished and look forward to pictures of those masts in place!

Best regards,

[astraltrader]

Ditto from me Tim.

Well done to both you and the Russians.

[tim lewin]

Thanks everyone; really it was, is, a huge team effort, no heroes, just a great bunch of dedicated people; here is the summary of the media coverage so far, you might need to be quick-ish to utilise the links, actually most are fairly similar, but it gives measure to the depth of interest in the old girl.

I will look thru my pics for the back of the old hangers, the one on the left is now the Walrus Cafe, the one on the right is now termed the Gunroom and used as a meeting venue which can be hired. even if I cannot find any now i will be there on tuesday so will take some fresh ones then.

As I no longer have an office in the City i try to use, and get all my firends to do the same, the ships facilities whenever poss as every time they earn something it helps. I noticed yesterday they were working away on restoration of one of the Bofors (port side, aft) I already did a bunch of pics on a bofors restoration so you prob don't want more, they are all the same. I was taling with the director this morning about what to do about the radars on the foremast when it comes down. Ideally the answer is to remouve the wornout and very heavy motors from the non-functional sets and to find a way to convert one of the old scanners to use a modern outfit so there is something going round and the kids can see how things work.

[tim lewin]

Dear All,
Here are some pics of the event last wednesday which capture some of the flavour; the pics are each around 2mb plus so for the sake of ease of posting i put them into a reduced PDF, if anyone wants the original in all its megapixel detail i am happy to send it direct, just drop me a pm and t'will be done in a trice.
It was a great day, now down to work.
all best
tim

PS. I will go to the ship on wednesday and will not forget the pics of the boat-deck etc....

[steve roberts]

Hi Tim.Thanks for posting those pictures.It looks to have been avery moving event.Regards Steve.

[tim lewin]

http://www.culture24.org.uk/history+%2526+heritage/transport/maritime+history/art77311

Here is another article on the event; the site is rather good and might appeal to forum members as it covers a wide range of museums including maritime ones and an "what's on" in museums.

The trick now is to make sure we keep the momentum rolling along and the promises so ernestly made are fulfilled, organisation and encouragement!

All best
tim

[jbryce1437]

Hello Tim, thanks for keeping us up to date and I do hope the new masts come to fruition soon. Some lovely photographs in your link.

Jim

[NASAAN101]

guys,
She was always be one of my favorites! I'm just glad Britain still has her! here my favorite Colors with her! let me know what you guys think!
Nikki

[tim lewin]

Dear Nikki, the paint scheme of Belfast is a subject of endless debate, camo or plain "crabfat" grey? Number or no number (C35) but at the end of the day its only paint and not hugely difficult to change from time to time.

For those who do not know the A & B turrets are aimed and elevated to theoretically straddle the motorway services petrol station and cafe at Scratchwood on the M25 London orbital highway, about 12 miles or 19 kms distant, i have never thought to ask why!
tim

[NASAAN101]

tim,
she's still a cool ship! She was one of 14 ships that help to sink Scharnhorst! Force 1 was: HMS Belfast, Norfolk, Sheffield, Musketeer, Matchless, Opportune, Virago and Force 2 was: HMS Duke of York, Jamaica, Savage, Scorpion, Saumarez, Sword, Stord. what do you guys thing?
Nikki

[alanbenn]

For those who do not know the A & B turrets are aimed and elevated to theoretically straddle the motorway services petrol station and cafe at Scratchwood on the M25 London orbital highway, about 12 miles or 19 kms distant, i have never thought to ask why!
tim


Tim, if you've ever stopped off at Scratchwood services you'd know why, service is terrible:D

Here's a great shot of the 'Old Lady' one of my favourites in plain pussers grey.

Regards
Alan

[alanandbren]

Alan, have to agree on this one, is she going into Guz? I think our cruisers were the finest warships in the world, they were absoloutly beautiful

[INVINCIBLE]

Alan, have to agree on this one, is she going into Guz? I think our cruisers were the finest warships in the world, they were absoloutly beautiful

Agree our cruisers were most certainly fine looking ships, particularly the Southampton class. The Edinburgh class (BELFAST & EDINBURGH) were unusual in that they had the second funnel set behind the mainmast, which made them look slightly odd as all the other contemporary British cruisers had the two funnels between the two masts, even the TIGERs. A question I was often asked when working on board BELFAST was "Is she a light cruiser or a heavy cruiser? - (answers on a postcard....)

[NASAAN101]

Guys,
Do they have her guns pointed upward, or can people touch them?
Nikki

[INVINCIBLE]

Guys,
Do they have her guns pointed upward, or can people touch them?
Nikki

Rather depends on how tall you are. I was standing and holding the camera at eye level when I took this picture. You can however go inside the turrets.

[NASAAN101]

Guys,
She's still a hack of a ship! I wish i had a passport to come see her, I'd spend all day with her! A those cover in the guns or what? Dose anyone know were i can find a good book on her?
Nikki

[tim lewin]

Dear All, some of you were lookingfor pics of the back of the bridge of HMS Belfast and the boat deck, yesterday I was there planning ofr the grand hooley for the dedication of the completion of the installation of the new masts which is provisionally scheduled for Trafalgar Day this year so i took thes pics to help with the planning and which should fill the request for the old hangers site, they are 2.2mb each if you need to see every flake in the paint, just ask by pm. The view looking aft shows the mainmast which is now so rusty it needs scaffolding. The 4" gun is an extra to show how well they are restoring these.
all best
tim

[tim lewin]

http://mft39.multiply.com/video/item/56/The_British_Royal_Navy_ship_HMS_Belfast

for those who did not see it here is the link to the Russian web copy of the belfast video

[MelQuick]

Tim

Terrific video. I remember seeing HMS Belfast on her frequent visits to Portland when I was detached to HMS Osprey for 4 months.

Mel

[tim lewin]

Dear All,
You will remember me banging on about the campaign to replace the masts of HMS Belfast with Russian replicas made from Russian steel, in a Russian yard, by Russian engineers to symbolise and encapsulate the 24 months of service Belfast saw on the Kola Run culminating in the Battle of North Cape.
Earlier this year the Russian President took up the cause and ordered it done. This was in late March when a delegation cam to the ship from the Kremlin and presented medals to a group of veterans (see earlier pics).
The yard, Severnaya Werf in St. Petersburg, went immediately to work and by the time Victory Day, May 9th, rolled round the main work on the mast was done, and here they are, or at least the mainmast. There is some details to be completed and this is in process as i write. The intention is to dismantle the old and terminally rusted masts and install the new, reinstating all of the antennae, during September after the summer busy season. A dedication ceroemony about which i will post more when its cooked, is planned for October.
Also attached is a pic of the mainmast in its current condition, at least the scaffolding will be helpful in taking it down. And, since all kindness deserves recognition, the scaffolding is sponsored by SGB scaffolding company and is extremely important to the work in progress.
tim

[tim lewin]

dont know what happened to the pics in the last post but here they are....

[tim lewin]

Navywouldnothaveme; your pics of the back of the hanger have been posted but i can do it again if necessary in a private message to you....did you see them? maybe one of the moderators could consolidate the various Belfast threads?
tim

[Don Boyer]

Tim:

Just marvelous to see Belfast getting the attention she needs to remain a fine historic attraction for years to come. I certainly hope your part in seeing this through, and I know it's more than you admit to, gets the recognition it deserves! BZ and more.

Regards,

[harry.gibbon]

Tim,
Thank you for the updates both written and pictorial.

Further to Dons' post #102 above, the contents of which I wholeheardedly endorse.

May I say that your mentioning the sporsorship of the scaffolding suppliers is significant, since the hire and erecting of such structures is an extremely expensive item. I though this when you mentioned it in a previous report but I wasn't at that time clear whether the structure was sponsored or by whom.

So further BZ's I think, to both the Russians for their replacement masts and SGB for their scaffolding.


Little h

[tim lewin]

Thanks Harry, you are absolutely right;
now for something i would really appreciate the feedback of the Forum members on, you are my "focus Group.
In my limited role in this project i have proposed that the event should have a really spiffo souvenir programme book, more of a souvenir book than a programme. The content of the book would be some contributions from famous ex-Belfasts, a foreword from military historian. Lots of pictures, then/now; the synopsis of the Last Witness project with pics, and a DVD of some archive footage, the making and errection of the masts and a bit of a new idea; a famous reporter from the BBC has agreed to make despatches, as in a modern news broadcast, as though he was actually there reporting from the scene, live, of events in Belfast's history at which there were no reporters at all. I have in mind (1) the capture of SS Cap Norte in the first days of the war. (2) the final stages of North Cape (3) dawn on the 6th June 1944 as belfast runs out her guns to launch the first symbolic salvo onto the Normandy Beaches opening the Second Front. I though a different approach would be interesting and allow us to recreate eye-witness type action ....
Feedback please?
tim

[JackW1208]

Hi Tim, it sounds as if you have the makings of a good project for Belfast with the 3 events that you have mentioned. In this age of computer generated imagery, maybe that could be added to the 'live' comentary.
Just a little bit of feedback for you.

Regards
Jack.

[tim lewin]

thanks Jack, computer imagery def on the menu, take a look at the little film we put together to support the appeal a couple of years ago, i still have some copies but this one was put on the web by one of the embassy guards in the British Embassy in moscow who was covering the reception we had there to launch to project. Actually the materials all came from the efforts and skill of others who gave permission to use them so my litle team in moscow reassembled all the raw materials and did the voiceover in 3 sleepless days and nights to have it done in time.
This time we have more lead-time so i hope can do better.
tim
http://mft39.multiply.com/video/item/56/The_British_Royal_Navy_ship_HMS_Belfast

this is on one of the other Belfast threads but twice is better than never; hopefully one of the kindly moderators will combine them into one super-thread about Belfast.

[qprdave]

I have moved seven threads associated with HMS Belfast to here.

It is a good idea to do a search before starting a new thread. Not only does it keep everything together, It may contain information that the researcher is looking for without going through many threads.

qprdave

[astraltrader]

Thanks Dave - I would like to underline how important it is to check in our search facility to prevent all of this unnecessary duplication of threads.

[tim lewin]

For Alan Benn; dear Alan, you posted a splendid pic of Belfast, stern 3/4 view, poss entering Plymouth? can you poss tell me the date of the shot and who owns the copyright to it?
many thanks
tim

And very many thanks to the mods for combining the treads, all you say is 100% agreed with, i did do a search before posting and added to one of them but it was clear from that that it was time for some sewing with all these threads!

[alanbenn]

Tim, I'm not aware of any copyright on this photo, it is the 1st photo of Belfast in my collection so it was originally from my Dad's album, no date on it but it wouldn't be any later than 1963, he left the service that year.

Regards
Alan

[tim lewin]

Dear All,
Here is apic taken 2 days ago of the mighty barkee with the scaffolding going up apace round the foremast; this is to enable the engineeers to remove as much as poss of the mountings and fittings to be cleaned up ready for refitting to the new masts. The new masts are waiting shipment in St. Petersburg and will come over in September after the busy holiday period. The work will be carried out immediately by the Russian builders working with British engineers and heavy lifting equipment. As soon as we have the programme finalised for the dedication event, late october, i will post it.
all best
tim

[astraltrader]

Thanks for the update Tim!

[CGRET]

Tim,

Excellent coverage! Thanks for the update's on the HMS Belfast. A fine ship that deserve's the coverage and support of all!

Well Done!

Regards
Charles

[Dave Hutson]

Tim,

It still seems strange that the new masts for Belfast should be built by Russians. It only bears out a comment I made on another thread where the Royal Carribbean Line was asked why their ships were built in Italian Yards - the reply being because British Yards don't have the expertise any longer. A sad reflection I thought, on a nation which built the finest ships in the world.

But I guess there is a link if only the Russian Convoys.

Dave H

[tim lewin]

The link was mainly financial, there was absolutely no enthusiasm from British (or any other) donors when we concieved the plan to ask the Russians. At the time of the original plan the Russian steel industry was going great guns and making money hand over fist so we thought in recognition of the sterling services provided to Arctic Convoys between 1942-4 and her role in opening the shooting at the dawn of the second front (D-day) we asked them if they might like to participate. The symbolism was to use Russian steel, Russian engineers and a Russian yard and then deliver the masts in a "reverse convoy" to London. The plan evolved over time and now the Presidential administration has backed the idea, the masts have been built exactly to plan and will be brought over in September this year. There is no doubt that they could technically have been built by a British yard, its just that the Russians were more interested, more sympathetic and ready to do it without equivocation for which we should all be hugely grateful, we have had nothing but enthusiasm from them and a real "can do" approach.
I will keep you posted as things go forward, we will try to take lots of pics of the actual work ones it gets underway,
tim

[spruso]

Alan, have to agree on this one, is she going into Guz? I think our cruisers were the finest warships in the world, they were absoloutly beautiful

She is about to berth at Garden Island, Sydney, Australia. I would say by the skyline in the background that it would be her visit around 1959-60. I visited her and took some nice shots. Unfortunately the rotten Dockyard Police confiscated my film when I took the camera into the base. Must have thought I was 15 year old Russian spy.

Stupid thing was you could go for joy flights over the area and take as many photos as you liked!

Cheers
Bruce

[Dave Hutson]

Tim,

GM. Thank you for clarifying the situation form me. Now explained it seems a good project and further cements, or rather, welds her connection to Russia.
The return convoy idea is great. Look forward to any pics.

Regards

Dave H

p.s. TT's boys are always inquisitive, as was TT. [TT Lewin was Tim's father - Officer and Gentleman but above all the Matelot's Officer, whether in Ship Command or Flag Rank]

[CYLLA]

Hi Tim , having read your post on H.M.S BELFAST receiving her new masts.

I should gather they will require a huge floating crane to get the job done, or is it going to be a big boys meccano set .
It will be very intresting, but first they will have to remove all the rusty bits .

cylla

[tim lewin]

Dear Dave, they thought to put a C between the T's with me so i am TCT;

Scylla; With regard to the crane all this is in the hands of Houlders and Medtow the UK engineers who are providing the kit to do the job but the masts are not all that heavy, around 9-12 tonnes each, even complete but without all the ariels etc. Originally we thought they would be done in 12-15 foot sections but the yard has opted to make tham all of a piece and so we assume they wil do it in a single lift from barge to deck. I am not really in the engineering loop but will try to find out more as we go forward. I should add that much of the engineering side is being sponsored by Sovcomflot, the Russia cargo fleet altho i do not think they will do the delivery, ships too big, wrong routes and mostly wrong types. the delivery will most likely be one of the modern North Sea/baltic vessels with own gear, the sort that carry timber to the East coast.
Hopefully the sponsors will take advantage of the position ofthe barge and crane alongside facing the city and Tower to put their logos and names, this kind of sponsorship deserves all the publicity it can get.
tim

[Don Boyer]

Tim: Thanks for the update on Belfast.

From this side of the world, I have to say that HMS Belfast is the only British ship I have seen -- she came to Pearl Harbor I believe in 1963 enroute home from the China Station to pay off one last time. I was 15 years old and camera-less, unfortunately. Of course with Her Majesty's cruiser in port, the USN could not be outdone, so I believe the USS St. Paul or Los Angeles was in port at the same time! :)

But Belfast has a spot in me heart as the only rep. of the Royal Navy I've ever been close to. (I saw many in Singapore in 1965, but from a distance. I have 16mm movies of them, but have never had the money to get them converted to videos.)

I find it very sad, and a commentary on the times that no British donors stepped forward. Tim, you deserve GREAT CREDIT for creating the circumstances by which the deal could be done with the Russians and to create such a great public accomplishment of the two countries, once again, working together to accomplish a common goal as in the dark days of WWII. Big lesson there for the public and politicians to think about, although the terms seem to be becoming an oxymoron today.

Congratulations go out to you for such a determined effort done with the style and verve not unlike that of your father.

I will also have some actual cash going out to you for those books as well -- :rolleyes: as soon as Uncle Sam deigns to write me another paycheck!

Best wishes and Bravo Zulu, Tim!

[tim lewin]

Dear All,
Time for the next update; today work will begin formally on the dismantleing of the old rusty masts by a team of Russian engineers working with Medtow and Houlders. The Russians will live aboard during the work making them the most active ship's company in 40 some years! I am investigating the possibility of persuading a sponsor to put a fixed video camera in place on a vantage point across the river streaming real time pictures to the internet so everyone can appreciate the work as it progresses, i think the Museum is also considering the same thing. If we manage this i will let you know and post it here, as well as as many pics as i can take of "men at work"...
All best
tim

[tim lewin]

dear all, here is a pic of part of the rusty mast being removed; i plan to visit tomorrow and take more pics so hold hard and i will post them on tuesday.
tim

[tim lewin]

Dear All,
I visited the ship yestersay had took a load of pics of which these are representative samples, if anyone wants more in higher def then please contact me by PM. The work is racing forward, already some 8 days ahead of schedule. The scaffolding is used as a working platform while the masts and equipment is removed in stages and then craned off for restoration in the case of the equipment and smelting into souvenirs for the mast metal (replica tompions was the plan). There are 12 Russian engineers from OPK yard in St. Petersburg plus the operating team from Houlders and Medtow, you can see Medtow's crane alongside and the dismembered sections of mast in the barge. Remarkably they are able to keep the ship open but restricted access only to the midships section of the upperdeck. At this rate they could be done well within September. There should now be a daily run of pics to keep you all in the frame, as it were, of progress..
watch this space!
tim

[JackW1208]

Thanks very much Tim for the 'work in progress' photos.

Regards
Jack.

[tim lewin]

Thanks Jack, i have agreed with the ship to post me a few pics daily, i dont commute any more, so will keep you all appraised of the progress as it goes forward. I investigated the possibility of positioning a fixed camera on the roof of the adjacent building to film the work and stream it to the net in real time but the price of a camera good enough to make it worthwhile was just too much. I have however sealed the deal on the making a a documentary on the project so will keep all member in the loop on this.
tim

[tim lewin]

there goes the last part of the foremast.
The director of the documentary film visited the ship yesterday to scope out and meet the director so will keep you posted on this aspect as well.
tim

[tim lewin]

here come the new masts, up the river and alongside; now tell me that's not the best sight in the world, short of a heat-haze above the funnels.
tim

[Dreadnought]

Great photos Tim, and very glad to see the work that is being undertaken. Whilst I understand and appreciate the Rusian connection, I am, along with others who have mentioned the same, very disappointed at the lack of British interest in sponsoring the work, and that the masts couldn't have been fabricated here in the UK. Quite extraordinary and baffling.

[harry.gibbon]

Perhaps that is what happens when what is left of the British Steel Industry now belongs to Tata of India, and other overseas companies.

There are however plenty fabricators around the UK and it is dreadfull that they have not become involved.

Little h

[tim lewin]

i hope things might change as awareness develops of how much benefit a firm can gain form participation in such projects but i am not surprised at all. When we did the malta memorial on Tower Hill, covered elsewhere on this site, i begged BAE Systems for help in casting bronze plaques with the engravings on them, this was suppposed to capture the symbolism of the fact that companies making up the group had built many of the ships and aircraft committed to the defence of Malta, there was almost no interest at all in doing this and in the end the small stone-mason company donated the black marble in memory of one of their partners father who served in Malta minesweepers during the siege. As it happened theis was actually a much better result as they give a fine contrast to the Malta limestone and no green dribbles! i think perhaps when you do this sort of thing you have to appeal to the personal relationship of the people in power to the event/outcome you are trying to accomplish and build on that. The Russians appreciate the memories of WW2 much more than we do, every family has a relative who was there and despite the stories of cold-shoulders shown to seamen in Kola they remain both hugely appreciative and fascinated by those times, an signally grateful to the sailors who took part.
tim

[tim lewin]

I am told that the first new mast will be stepped on wednesday so that should be the next batch of pics; if anyone lives nearby you should get a good view from the Tower or the nearest embankment.

There was a question of placing coins under the new masts or if this was only for new builds, my advice was to do it and to do it with Russian and British coins. Anyone got any insight into this custom and advice?

[Rob Hoole]

Tim, thanks for keeping us so well briefed.

This explanation seems as good as any other:

Coin under mast (http://www.answers.com/topic/coin-under-mast)

How it all got started, and why you still need one there

Sailors have long believed a coin under the mast brings luck. This ritual is believed to have started with the Romans, whose custom it was to place a coin in the mouth of a dead person to pay Charon, the boatman who ferried the souls of the dead across the River Styx to Hades. Hades in those days was simply the home of the dead, not the specific domain of Satan in the modern colloquial sense.Of course, there may be some of you who are convinced that you are headed for hell anyway, no matter what happens. So you might want to forgo the coin-placing ritual and spend the money instead on wild women, liquor, poker, new gear for the boat, and other sinful pleasures. What’s to lose?

More cautious boaters will realize that placing a coin under the mast is another way to earn points for the black box in which your boat’s luck is stored. It’s a cheap price to pay.

Skeptics should note that even the U.S. Navy takes this ritual seriously. Officers of the USS New Orleans, launched in 1933, placed 33 coins—pennies, nickels, and dimes—under her foremast and mainmast. All were carefully placed heads up. And the destroyer USS Higgins, commissioned in April 1999, had 11 coins specially selected for her mast stepping, some of them very rare and going back to Roman times.But you don’t need to use rare or expensive coins. In fact, in the days of wooden ships, when even skilled artisans earned comparatively little, it was regarded as imprudent to use gold. Besides, there wasn’t much point in paying Charon more than he could find change for. Rather, select a coin that means something to you, one that was minted in the year the boat was launched perhaps, or one from the year you were born.

Incidentally, most people glue the coin in place with epoxy or 3M 5200 these days, but it does worry me; I hope Charon can get it if the need arises.

[tim lewin]

Dear Rob, very many thanks for that, all looks pretty convincing. I have posted it on to the ship so i hope they will go for it.
Watch this space!
tim

[tim lewin]

Dear All,
The time set for stepping the new mainmast is 0700+/- on wednesday morning, early commuters along the embankment on either side or crossing London Brifge should have a fine view. The mast will be hoisted inboard in a single lift. Plenty of pics on thursday....
tim

[Batstiger]

Thank you for keeping us informed Tim, it should be an interesting spectacle for those lucky enough to be in the area..

Bob.

[Clive 58]

Tim,

Thanks for the updates. I'm really enjoying this thread.

It's about time I visited HMS Belfast once more. Perhaps October half-term will see her fully re-opened again.

Cheers,

Clive.

[astraltrader]

A fine thread update Tim - thanks for all your work with this.

[doug.birch]

Dear Tim, thanks for keeping us up to date with the installing of the masts.
What a site to see, oh to be in England, please post some photos,best wishes. Doug.Birch

[tim lewin]

Dear All, the real pleasure in this is your appreciation, thanks for your support. Here are yesterdays pics, most of the intervenint time has been in cleaning up the mountings and preparing for today's big lift of the mainmast into position which should go off at around 0730. Yesterday when i got there there were BBC and Russian TV crews on site interviewing the engineering team and generally geting confused on the price, or more to the point, value, of the project. As lawyers would put it, for the avoidance of doubt, the value of the project is a little bit north of $2 million by the time the mast have bee copied, brought over, all the hire of equipment taken into account, the provision and payment of engineers, removal and reinstatement of all the rigging, radars, meteo systems and making good so dont be over impressed by the talk of much lower figures the press seem to have got stuck in their minds.
tim

[Don Boyer]

Great progress, Tim. Can't wait to see the mast in place. When is the foremast due, and what coins were chosen to place under the mainmast?

Looking forward to seeing her new mast in place. You have been very modest, but I know you have been the key driving force behind all of this. Your father would have been so proud of your efforts. I know he is looking on.

Best Regards,

[tim lewin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMIzKR7oIOU

this is the russian news from yesterday, some of the roubles were mine

[jbryce1437]

A great clip Tim and a great insight into the work being done, although I will have to brush up on my Russian:D

Jim

[Don Boyer]

I wondered what those guys were speaking :rolleyes: Great to see the progress. Tim, congratulations on another "step" toward refurbishing that fine old warrior.

Regards,

[tim lewin]

yesterday's mounting of the main, more to follow

[oldsalt]

She is looking good, I spent several hours onboard a couple of years ago, I purposely went alone. Being ex Engine Room , it brought back many memories. How I wish there had been more vessels saved, it would have been enthralling to look over my first ship Vanguard. Incidentally & a bit off course, have the machinery spaces in Cavalier been opened up yet? Keep up the good work Tim.

[Hugh Williams]

Hi,

This is really a fine project. It is great to see the ongoing work. A visit to the ship's bridge is quite thrilling, particularly when the audio production of the Battle of the North Cape is experienced. Unforgettable.

Regards,

Hugh Williams

[harry.gibbon]

yesterday's mounting of the main, more to follow


Tim,

Re pic #4;
Dare I suggest that the flying of the Union flag by all those other cranes on the right of your picture, gives one the impression that the operators/owners of said structures felt that they were actually part of the evolution and that although unable to participate, they were certainly 'willing' the project on!!!!

Little h

[tim lewin]

monday morning is the big day for the foremast, starting at 0730 but likely to take all morning for those of you in the region, then there is all the kit to reinstate but completion day is set for 24th.
tim

[astraltrader]

Thanks again for all your efforts in keeping the forum up to date Tim - it is greatly appreciated.

[tim lewin]

Dear All, here we are; its hard to say what these six pictures represent, the task of replacing the masts is almost complete, the next couple of days will see the repainted and cleaned up radar scanners and rigging go back up and all the halyards rerigged. The task will be completed on the 24th when there will be a private celebration to thanks the Russian shipwrights for their incomparable effort in completing this huge project, two weeks ahead of the anticipated scedule. Thanks go too to the British team from Medtow and Houlders and all the incredible genorosity of the sponsors. Once its all over I will write a longer article for you but for now lets just allow ourselves a huge grin of satisfaction!

[Rob Hoole]

Thanks Tim. I'm certainly grinning. You must be very proud of your achievements and have every right to be so.

[astraltrader]

Seconded Tim - well done indeed! :)

[Clive 58]

What fantastic photo's!

This has been such a great project to follow.

Well done to all concerned, especially you Tim.

Cheers,

Clive.

[mustang ali]

must admit, it's a good lookin ship, love tha paint job, why cant RN vessels be like that nowadays, like the Visby Class Corvettes of the Swedish Navy (love the 57mm BOFORS, pity we cant do that with our 4.5" guns)

[Jackaroo]

Nice to see you tidying up the ship for my forth coming vist:D:D

BZ to all for the hard work in keeping HMS Belfast as a living museum.

[Don Boyer]

Tim this makes what "three years before the masts" on this project?

Congratulations and Well Done from the other pond.

Regards.

[Francis Stanley]

Tim
I would like also to congratulate you in your involvement with this project and the way you take time from what is I am sure a busy schedule , to keep us all abreast of the project.
If it were not for people like you keeping our rich heritage alive, the world would be little poorer. So thank you on behalf of my grandchildren for allowing them the opportunity to see it as it was.

[tim lewin]

Dear Don, actually more like five years, we struck on the idea at the 2005 christmas party!
Here are yesterdays photos, the arials going up, this just leaves the standing/running rigging left and its job done. They have also restored all of the signal/running/anchor etc. lights on the masts so its not just the masts that have been done. Unfortunately its not poss to revive the functionality of the old radar as some of the motors are DC and high voltage for which of course the is no longer a power source.
The rest of the job will be completed on friday after which the ship will throw a thank-you party for the Russian and British workers who have done such a splendid job to makes this dream a reality, this spirit could do with some replication on a wider scale elsewhere in life.

[tim lewin]

Dear All,
On firiday night the ship threw a party for the team and to say thanks and farewell to our wonderful Russian engineers and specialists who have driven the pace of the refit over the past weeks. Russian Standard provided the vodka, the food was good old shepherds pie. By one of life's curious coincidences i would like to throw in a connection. On the night of September 24th. 1942 HMS Somali broke in two and sank in the Arctic seas after being towed 600 miles by her sister ship Ashanti, it was the night my father was MID for his part: the Belfast "Last Witness" project was created by me in 2005with his memory in mind, how fitting that fate should bring the completion of the project to the same point in time 68 years apart!

more pics of the ship to follow...

[Don Boyer]

Congratulations, Tim, on a job superbly well done. I know all of us on the forum are so proud of your efforts and the final results. Those who served on HMS Belfast past and present no doubt take great pride in seeing the results of your hard work, and of all associated with the project. From Pearl Harbor, where I saw Belfast on her last commission, Bravo Zulu!

Best Regards,

[brian james]

congrats tim!!!!!!!!great job i recognize the old"293"aerial......i "cut my teeth" on that!!!!!!on a"dido" cruuiser!! regards from oz...

[tim lewin]

Thank-you all for your kind thoughts and wishes which i will pass on to the team in the ship; i thought you might like to see John Hamilton's representation of Belfast turning towards the radar echo of Scharnhorst at North Cape.
tim

[Dreadnought]

Absolutely fantastic job Tim. You should be, and I am sure you are, extremely proud. A marvellous achievement.

[harry.gibbon]

Fantastic job and excellent outcome Tim.

An example to all just how such an evolution should go, so a well deserved big BZ goes to you and all involved the 'refit' crew.

Little h

[Hugh Williams]

Hi Tim,

If I may make so bold....wonderful job. Great.

Regards,

Hugh Williams

[designeraccd]

Great to see your sole surviving WW2 cruiser being taken care of (unlike our poor Olympic...:eek:)! I well remember flying over her on approach to London Heathrow; was a treat to briefly see this magnificant piece of Naval History!! DFO :D:D

[Dreadnought]

Above post edited as stated. Could members please not use text speak. See Forum Code of Conduct:

http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7503

Thanks

[tim lewin]

just in this morning; first view of the ship without her scaffolding or the barges alongside, this is the first time she has been seen with free-standing masts for ages.
We plan to smelt the steel from the old masts and produce a very limited edition of 100 replica tampions the first batch of which will go to the VIPs to say thanks, the rest to ber sold to raise funds for on-going support and maintainance, though you might like a sneak preview of the mockup, the finished item will be polished/lacquered steel. I think roughly the size of a CD in an oak frame A4 size with a vellum script underneath to say what-how-when details; needless to say they will be outrageously expensive!

[Rob Hoole]

What a lovely sight. Thank you Tim and BZ.

[Teuchter]

Very well done - mega BZ!!!

[designeraccd]

Still a HANDSOME example of an all gun cruiser! She has always been to my eyes the best looking of the WW2 RN light cruisers; although the one thing-compared to other warships-that always struck me is the center tube of the 3 being on the different "attitude" because of the way her mounts were built.
Can't think of any USN triple mounts that did that.

NICE photo! DFO :D:D

[JackW1208]

Excellent work Tim!

Now, what will it take to get her flashed up and steaming down the Thames?

Regards
Jack.

[Hugh Williams]

Excellent work Tim!

Now, what will it take to get her flashed up and steaming down the Thames?

Regards
Jack.
Hi,

In answer to that, without being political, more guts and brass than is being portrayed by our leadership in the recent past. of course gun support in the littorals is not really needed is it?

Rant over!

Regards,

Hugh Williams

[tonclass]

Tim, you and your associates have done a fantastic job in getting her restored, but I have one huge complaint.... Her colour scheme. Who decided to turn a re-modelled and re-built warship back into her wartime livery ? I could understand it, if she hadn't been modernised, but she has !! It's like taking an 80 year old woman and dressing her up in mascara, false eyelashes, lipstick and putting her in a miniskirt and kinky boots..... (Calm down gents ;)) It just doesn't look right.

Am I just the only one or do others feel the same ???

[tim lewin]

it is only paint! when she first came in 1970 something she was in natural crabfat complete with B&W number (C35), actually thinking back, without number; then they added the number, then they decided to redecorate in dazzle. Maybe next time she goes down to pompey for a spruce-up the colours will change again, i can propose it as your special request if you like? maybe we need a straw poll of our forum focus group? those for crabfat and number please express yourselves; those for camo please do the same! now thats democracy!

For general interest, when she was brand new she was in dark gray...

[Pelican]

Tim, if you've ever stopped off at Scratchwood services you'd know why, service is terrible:D

Here's a great shot of the 'Old Lady' one of my favourites in plain pussers grey.

Regards
Alan
And from the other quarter.

[tim lewin]

Dear Mousey, that is an absolutely splendid shot i have not seen before, are you ok if i include it to my souvenir programme book for the royal event on 19th october, that what you can call "opeing A arcs"!!
tim

[Pelican]

Dear Mousey, that is an absolutely splendid shot i have not seen before, are you ok if i include it to my souvenir programme book for the royal event on 19th october, that what you can call "opeing A arcs"!!
tim
I am sure that will be ok Tim. Will send you a copy direct and try to ascertain when and where it was taken. Kind regards David.

[tonclass]

it is only paint! when she first came in 1970 something she was in natural crabfat complete with B&W number (C35), actually thinking back, without number; then they added the number, then they decided to redecorate in dazzle. Maybe next time she goes down to pompey for a spruce-up the colours will change again, i can propose it as your special request if you like? maybe we need a straw poll of our forum focus group? those for crabfat and number please express yourselves; those for camo please do the same! now thats democracy!

For gen interest, when she was brand new she was in dark gray...

Great photo Tim. Would love to know what the general concensus is regarding colour scheme.

[alanbenn]

I have added a poll to the top of the page for members to put their preferred option.

Regards
Alan

[tonclass]

I have added a poll to the top of the page for members to put their preferred option.

Regards
Alan

Cheers Alan. Have cast my vote.

[Pelican]

Cheers Alan. Have casted my vote.
Ditto ~ clever stuff

[karen]

Have casted my vote as well..

Karen

[designeraccd]

Those shots added by Tim are fantastic; talk about a "time machine" (the early ones)! The ones before the storm have a very "moody" look to them due to the clouds; nice! :D:D


In my opinion she would look better without the camo; voted accordingly!

The sad story about the ship's cat and the neanderthal that killed her certainly makes a sad statement about our so called civilization...or lack thereof. In the Corps we had "methods" of handling cretins like that and they had little to do with the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). However, they got the POINT over and job done. DFO :mad:

[Jackaroo]

In my opinion she would look better in pussers grey like I stated in an earlier post; voted accordingly!

[Pelican]

SECOND THOUGHTS
Is HMS Belfast part of the I.W.M.? If so then dazzle is appropriate and correct. If not then I think she looks her best in pussers.

[Don Boyer]

I"ve always preferred the wartime greys -- to me, camoflage, no matter what pattern or colors seemed to make money for paint companies and not do one much good at sea, although effective under certain "ideal" conditions.

I voted for the wartime grey!

[Pelican]

THE STARBOARD SIDE
A couple of more fotos - possibly already posted?
Re the second anchor ~ 'suspended' ~ perhaps those that know would kindly explain the reason for this? It must have been quite an evolution?

[Hugh Williams]

THE STARBOARD SIDE
A couple of more fotos - possibly already posted?
Re the second anchor ~ 'suspended' ~ perhaps those that know would kindly explain the reason for this? It must have been quite an evolution?
Hi ya,

Great photos.

Thanks.

Hugh Williams

[Rob Hoole]

THE STARBOARD SIDE
A couple of more fotos - possibly already posted?
Re the second anchor ~ 'suspended' ~ perhaps those that know would kindly explain the reason for this? It must have been quite an evolution?

See the Catting the Anchor (http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?p=112741) thread. Essentially, this was done to allow the cable to be parted at the first half-shackle so it could be lowered through the hawse and secured to a buoy.

[Pelican]

See the Catting the Anchor (http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?p=112741) thread. Essentially, this was done to allow the cable to be parted at the first half-shackle so it could be lowered through the hawse and secured to a buoy.
Many thanks Rob. As soon as I saw the word catt the anchor relationship came back ~ vaguely. That thread is really worth reading. Full of interesting information.

[CYLLA]

I have been catching up on this thread, [being a old ship that i was on]and seeing those new mast,s that she has erected , they really do look smart.
It is a pity that those two radar Ariel's ,if they could turn ,say by a electric motor when the ship is open to visitors,in stead of looking so static,it could create some atmosphere to her looks.Not being of the R.P branch i wont get technical.

[tim lewin]

THAT IS IN THE PLANS! UNFORTUNATELY EVERYTHING HAS A PRICE.
sorry, forgot to cxl caps lock.
We planned a few years ago to find a sponsor who might pay for this but it is not as easy as just putting the plug in, the motors are all antique high voltage DC and so it would mean stripping out all the ancient giblets and installing modern components to the old casings. We had the idea to do this and to join the moving bits to refurbished display screens for an education programme. Maybe later!

Meanwhile; URGENT APPEAL, especially for Doug Birch and anyone else.
I am writing the souvenir book/programme to go with the event on the 10th october. I want to include a section on a "Tribute to the White Berets"...this will be quotes from a handful of those who were there. Doug can you pen something for me on your experience? an anecdote or memory that sticks in your mind, i would be very grateful.

I shall be glad when its all over and i can enjoy a tot.
tim

[tim lewin]

Dear All, i just posted this in a PM but then thought it might have a wider appeal.
Lots of you like model-making and several have asked about detail of HMSB.
There is an exceptionally useful book with detailed drawings of every nook & cranny of Belfast called;

"Anatomy of a ship, HMS Belfast" published by Conway Maritime Press, price approx £15 quid,

There you go, ever helpful!

[tonclass]

Latest score: Pussers Grey 21 v 3 Dazzle Delight ;)

[astraltrader]

I voted for grey as well.

I wonder who preferred the camouflage??

[tonclass]

Tim,

is this an indication as to how folk feel ?? Are you able to get things changed to appease the majority ????????? We want some Pussers Grey m8......

[Don Boyer]

I've always preferred the wartime greys, so it wasn't ME, Terry! :)

I noted in the Pacific in WWII there were a huge variety of dazzle patterns for ships of all classes, but once the kamikaze started showing up with dismal regularity there was a real run on Measure 21, dark navy grey.

I've read a lot on the camoflage "science" in WWI and II, and the stuff you can find online and in books on all the varieties of markings and became convinced that dazzle patterns were effective under some circumstances against submarine observations and the rest just made enormous amounts of money for paint manufacturers when you get to the bottom line.

On the other hand, the patterns developed for American subs in the Pacific seemed to be really effective at reducing their observability at night and poor weather conditions, making surface operations a bit safer. But these colors were not "dazzle" patterns, they were greys and blacks, with some white for the limber holes. Many sub commanders commented on the effectiveness of this pattern.

Belfast is nothing if not "colorful" in her dazzle pattern, but I'd still rather see that grim warhsip grey. Appears most of us do.

And a question for us uneducated Yanks...what is "pussers grey"? I know the rum, but how did the term get tacked to grey wartime paint?

[tim lewin]

Dear Don,
the term pusser originally derived from the purser (them as held the purse) and were therefore responsible for the supply of everything, and financial jiggery pokery for paying for it, it came to mean anything officially supplied, be it rum, paint, clothing etc. and as standards became part of life pussers ....became standardised to a specification. It also has another connotation which means right and proper, so if something is "pusser" it is done right. yesterday when we had our discussion and planning meeting for the grand hooley on the 19th for the Belfast we were talking about the arrangement of the RNA standards, piping the still, and all the RN0type details that make it all look right, i said this has got to be done absolutely pusser, to which all the old salts nodded sagely and agreed!
there you go.
tim

[Don Boyer]

Thanks Tim. Learn something new here on the forum almost every day. :)

[tim lewin]

We have a unique opportunity to make a really singular souvenir of the project; we are arranging for a foundry to melt down some of the steel left from the old masts to cast them as 6" gun tampions which will be mounted on a block of symbolic oak approx A4 size with a stainless steel engraved plaque underneath. Somrthink like the attached. The run will be 1-100 and no more. The first dozen of so will go to the VVIPs on the ceremony on 19th October, the rest will be sold to raise additional funding for the continuing maintainance of the ship. You are my market research focus group, i estimate that a priice for these should be approx £70-00 including p&p to UK destination, what i really would appreciate is your opinion on this price as no noe has experience of doing this before. This is not an offer to sell, its just research but when the finished item is ready i will post pics again and if anyone wants to purchase i will tell you how to do it.
All thanks
tim

[tim lewin]

come on chaps, 18 of you have looked at the picture and no one has told me what they think the price should be! too much? too little? i really need your views, please!

[Jackaroo]

Tim, with what you have described and that there will be only 100 produced I suggest a price of $99.99. + p&p world wide and UK.

[mustang ali]

cast my vote, i think the dazzler paint job. personally i think all ships should have that sort of "camoflauge" style paint job

[Don Boyer]

For me, $50 --- for everybody else $200. :D

OK, it was a nice try....

I think around $200 would do it! I'll let you do the conversion to pounds...