The Awesome Power of Hitler's Navy:

[kookaburra]

I can't think of much more to say, really.:)

[designeraccd]

yup, hard to see those U-boats in this pic!!! LOL!! Fortunately they weren't enough, but for a while...things got awfully iffy because of them. DFO :D

[John Odom]

We sometimes tend to make fun of our enemies, until they beat us! Early in the war, the USMC taught that the Japanese were nearsighted and incompetent fighters. We found differently at Guadalcanal. Racism played a part. We were better than they in our eyes, and the reverse in theirs.

Both Japanese and German technology was better than ours at the start of the war. (Torpedoes, Optics)

Germany might have won, if hitler hadn't tried to micromanage things.

[John Brown]

Joking aside..

It looks a very interesting photo Kooka!

Do you have any info on it?


Regards...John

[kookaburra]

Joking aside..

It looks a very interesting photo Kooka!

Do you have any info on it?


Regards...John

John, I happened on it when searching for world warship postage stamps of all things, and it just caught my eye. It was something to do with a 1930s epic flight by the German aircraft in the photograph, and I think it was taken in Bermuda. I'll post further detail if I can find it again.

[Wombat]

It looks like this is the aircraft in the picture. Dornia Do G-1.

Wombat,
(James).

[Batstiger]

I couldn't resist it!

Bob.

[kookaburra]

Just to fill out what the photograph is really about: it's from a website detailing the history of Bermuda's aviation pioneers, and this is one of five German float plane landings in Bermuda from between 1936 and 1939 as part of a Deutsche Luft Hansa service that operated between Germany and Brazil, with various refeulling stops in between.


The site with some more photographs is here:

http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bermuda-online.org/1930aviationpilotradio.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bermuda-online.org/aviation.htm&usg=__VtrZB3QSibniv3gcLRu2gg_mq5w=&h=145&w=285&sz=9&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=yspbF-FSrffceM:&tbnh=59&tbnw=115&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlufthansa%2Bbermuda%2B1930s%26gbv%3D2 %26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

The actual account of this landing - of a single-engine float plane - is a little confusing. Work it out from the site as you will. K.

Here's the relevant text:

The most famous of the aircraft shown below of the Ha 139 was the Nordwind in Deutsche Luft Hansa livery of about 1938. When Luft Hansa - Lufthansa - founded in 1926 began in services from Germany to Brazil in 1936, it used five models of the Dornier Do 18. They were improvements on the Dornier Wal (Whale) flying boats. Lufthansa stationed the depot ship Shabenland (a converted cargo ship) west of the Azores. The aircraft landed alongside and were then winched up or down for fuel or repair, or caterpult take-off from the ship. On September 11, 1936 the aircraft began arriving in Bermuda, complete with their Nazi insignia. The first arrival was Captain Baron F. W. von Buddenbrock. There were four more visits to Bermuda by various German float planes including several by the Ha 139 made by Boem und Voss of both aircraft and battleship fame. They flew into Bermuda to get more fuel. They landed in Hamilton Harbor. Engines were four 600 hp Junkers Jumo 205C 12-cylinder diesels. Span was 88 feet 7 inches (27m). Length was 63 feet 11.75 inches (19.5 meters). Wing area was 1,259.38 square feet (117 square meters). Catapult take off weights were 38,581 pounds (17,500 kilograms). Maximum speed was 196 miles per hour (315 kilometers per hour) at sea level. Operational ceiling was 11,480 feet (3,500 meters). Maximum range was 3,395 miles (5,300 kilometers). They continued until the war of 1939 to 1945).

[Pelican]

I have extracted the attached from a slide show doing the rounds on the net. Perhaps someone would be good enough to identify her and the Moderator can move her to the correct thread? Some may even wish to go a bit further and identify the ship that Hitler is aboard and the occasion? Or is this all well known?

[chris westwood]

I have extracted the attached from a slide show doing the rounds on the net. Perhaps someone would be good enough to identify her and the Moderator can move her to the correct thread? Some may even wish to go a bit further and identify the ship that Hitler is aboard and the occasion? Or is this all well known?
I think she's the Deutschland, later renamed Lutzow.

[Grosser Kreuzer]

Correct, it's DEUTSCHLAND later LüTZOW.

GK

[MMM]

The ship in background is Deutschland indeed but hitler is on board of Scharnhorst (most probably) during launching of Tirpitz.

By the way has anybody noticed only one single officer is "brave" enough and saluts in normal way instead of Nazi salute?

[Don Boyer]

John, I have to mention here even though it's a bit off-thread that you are quite correct that we had silly racist concepts of the Japanese early in the war, and learned quite quickly to put that aside, because their soldiers were some of the toughest combat fighters ever put in the field of battle. However, against the Marine Corps at Guadalcanal they were destroyed as a cohesive fighting force from the start, a trend that continued on every island battle from then until August 1945. They never surrendered and island, we never failed to take them. Truly a brutal formula for warfare, and one that has lessons for today's wimpy approach to "victory" in our little wars we keep getting invovled in.

Regards,

[Don Boyer]

Miro -- I had noticed that same officer saluting in a previously posted version of this same photo, and also mentioned it. What do you think his next duty station was? Eastern Front? SS Headquarters in Berlin?

[MMM]

Nazi salute was compulsory only for public employees not military forces.
After 20.07.1944 (attempt on Hitler's life) German forces was ordered to use it instead of customary Wehrmacht style.

Customary saluting officer's next post would be probably still Kriegsmarine.
In 1938 when photo made, nobody in Reich even dreamt of Western front, Hitler was "pigeon of peace", who wanted only unite all Germans (in Austria and Sudettenland in Western Czekoslovakia) plus Memel (today's Lituania) and Pommern Corridor (in Norhern Poland)to West Prussia.;) And common poeple did believe it (in England and US as well).

And to be strict ordinary Kriegsmarine officer had nothing to do in SS headquarter, "too high threshold for his legs" (Polish equivalent for to be not worthy to cross SS threshold).

By the way this pic is quite curious if quantity of Nazi saluting officers considered. Usually officers used standard salute. Maybe presence of Fuhrer influenced them so much? Or maybe being so happy getting next wonderful toy (BB Tirpitz), prohibited earler by Versaille Treaty, they put out old custom to endear their "donor".( Oh these Military Men all over the World, how they love their "toys". They were, and still are ready to do everything to get them)

The pic of DD Bernd von Arnim commisioning illustrate quite well the approache to saluting. Please note civils ashore (Nazi salute) and officers gathering in the vicinity of rear guns (all saluting in normal style).

I also dare to put here a pic of Hitler as "pigeon of peace" and happy Chamberlain who sold an other piece of other's land to preserve "Free World's" peace of mind.

[designeraccd]

From the books I have the Kreigsmarine, overall, had the least Nazi "influence" of the military and "normally" in the Navy they did use the regular salute. Perhaps, as Miro suggested, the officers were so overcome by the prospect of the mighty new Tirpitz that they were "carried away"

We have the majority of our "newcasters" over here that GUSH about virtually everything the current occupant of 1600 PA. Ave does...no matter how high he PILES our unpaid debt, or how many laws he jams thru that the common "folks" per surveys oppose. Like Adolf, he knows better.

Isn't "hero" WORSHIP a wonderful thing?

OTOH, don't believe FDR, whatever his faults, had any delusions about Adolf being a man of peace. Now wanting a piece of this, that and that COUNTRY..yes. Unfortunately during 30s and up til 7 Dec 41 the majority of US remained isolationist in outlook. That worked so well, too. :eek: One note of disagreement with Miro: in my military expierance: nobody "enjoyed" war or the "toys" that went with it. Of course I wasn't a lofty Admiral or General, just a lowly USMC Corporal!

Back to Lutzow: forgot she had that small, angled funnel cap prewar. DFO ;)

[Pelican]

DEUTSCHLAND
Just to say 'thank you' to all those who have posted information - learnt a lot.

[Jackaroo]

Nazi salute was compulsory only for public employees not military forces.
After 20.07.1944 (attempt on Hitler's life) German forces was ordered to use it instead of customary Wehrmacht style.

Customary saluting officer's next post would be probably still Kriegsmarine.
In 1938 when photo made, nobody in Reich even dreamt of Western front, Hitler was "pigeon of peace", who wanted only unite all Germans (in Austria and Sudettenland in Western Czekoslovakia) plus Memel (today's Lituania) and Pommern Corridor (in Norhern Poland)to West Prussia.;) And common poeple did believe it (in England and US as well).

And to be strict ordinary Kriegsmarine officer had nothing to do in SS headquarter, "too high threshold for his legs" (Polish equivalent for to be not worthy to cross SS threshold).

By the way this pic is quite curious if quantity of Nazi saluting officers considered. Usually officers used standard salute. Maybe presence of Fuhrer influenced them so much? Or maybe being so happy getting next wonderful toy (BB Tirpitz), prohibited earler by Versaille Treaty, they put out old custom to endear their "donor".( Oh these Military Men all over the World, how they love their "toys". They were, and still are ready to do everything to get them)

The pic of DD Bernd von Arnim commisioning illustrate quite well the approache to saluting. Please note civils ashore (Nazi salute) and officers gathering in the vicinity of rear guns (all saluting in normal style).

I also dare to put here a pic of Hitler as "pigeon of peace" and happy Chamberlain who sold an other piece of other's land to preserve "Free World's" peace of mind.

I like the pic of DD Bernd von Arnim commisioning Miro.

[BALTICSUBS]

We can be thankful the German navy was indeed only a small one, from carriers down to cruisers they seemed to have done more damage than the RN did to them. Here is a very quiclky put together list of direct action leading to a loss. The Bombers seemed to have faired much better.

Courageous
Glorious
Ark Royal
Eagle
Hood
Barham
Royal Oak
Edinburgh torpedoed by U-boat, then destroyers scuttled by crew.
Naiad
Hermione
Charybdis

Bismarck, (disabled by RN gunfire, scuttled by crew)
Scharnhorst
Karlsruhe, torpedoed by RN sub & scuttled by crew.
Konigsberg, sunk by Land based carrier aircraft, raised 1943.

[John O'Callaghan]

Hi All! I understand that the German Navy was never as heavily 'Naziised' as were the Army or the Airforce.Naval Officers tended to be less political than their counterparts in the other sevices. Key Nazi leaders such as Hitler having served in the Army and Goering in the Airforce combined with a more European continental focus meant the Nazis never really recognised the value of sea power and tended to leave the Navy on the sidelines except for political purposes.Mind you the navy eventually suffered for this neglect being behind the other services for equipment like aircraft, aircraft carriers etc.In fact apart from a few impressive and technically advanced ships the Navy was years behind being ready for WW2 when Hitler decided to invade Poland.
Cheers John O'C.