fire on nuclear sub

[herakles]

From the BBC today:

Twenty die on Russian submarine


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45188000/gif/_45188127_russia_primorye_0811.cmp.gif
At least 20 people have died in an incident involving the failure of a fire extinguishing system on a Russian nuclear submarine, local media report.
Russian Pacific Fleet spokesman Igor Dygalo said both sailors and shipyard workers died in the incident, which occurred during sea trials.
He said the submarine itself had not been damaged and there had been no radiation leaks.
Military prosecutors are investigating the incident.
Injured evacuated
The submarine, whose name and class have not been revealed, has been ordered to suspend sea trials and return to port in the far eastern Primorye territory, Capt Dygalo said.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45188000/jpg/_45188128_94b14c34-b063-42b1-beba-20a071678efb.jpg The sinking of the Kursk was Russia's worst submarine disaster

"I declare with full responsibility that the reactor compartment on the nuclear-powered submarine is working normally and the radiation background is normal," he said, quoted by Itar-Tass news agency.
There were 208 people on board at the time, 81 of whom were servicemen.
Twenty-one injured people have been evacuated from the submarine, sources at the fleet said.
Reports say the incident occurred in the nose of the vessel. The nuclear reactor, which is in the stern, was not affected.
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev is being kept fully informed about the incident, his press service said.
Deputy Defence Minister Alexander Kolmakov and Navy Commander-in-Chief Vladimir Vysotsky are flying to the scene of the incident.
Russia's worst submarine disaster happened in August 2000, when the nuclear-powered Kursk sank in the Barents Sea. All 118 people on board died.

[designeraccd]

Based on the pic, dated 2004, with the AP blurb...looked like a Victor III. OOPZZ...actually an Akula! Of course the way the roooshun "news release" was written it "implied" it was a new sub going on her first dive. After how many years of sitting at dockside???

Loss of life is, as always, regrettable...more so in a situation like this. DFO :(

[herakles]

The pic is of course Kursk.

[battlestar]

G'Day All

There are some countries that shouldn't have complicated toys! They keep breaking them. And the rest of the world worries if an accident will take them with it:rolleyes:

[herakles]

Actually I was wondering how old this sub is. Is she a newbie or one that's been lying around unused for some years?

[designeraccd]

The sub in ? is actually ID'd as a "new" Akula: I wonder if it is the one the Indian Navy has "leased"? If so, unfortunately it seems to go along with the fine record daaa roooshunnz have created with the CV x-Gorshkov for the Indians.

DFO

[battlestar]

G'Day All

The sub in ? is actually ID'd as a "new" Akula: I wonder if it is the one the Indian Navy has "leased"? If so, unfortunately it seems to go along with the fine record daaa roooshunnz have created with the CV x-Gorshkov for the Indians.
DFO

YEAH, it is designeraccd:rolleyes:

From 'Seawaves'
The future INS Chakra (ex-RFS Nerpa) suffered an accidental discharge of her fire suppression system while undergoing trials with Russian personnel in the Pacific November 8th. The accident killed at least 20 and an unknown number of other injuries. The injured were transferred to destroyer Admiral Tributs for faster passage to port. Escorting Chakra/Nerpa is submarine rescue ship Sayany.

A quicker response by the Russians, they learned from Kursk!

[designeraccd]

Yup, better response and while lives were again lost...not all of them! Given the large # of personnel on board that could have really been tragic. Their engineering and redundancy seem to @ equal that of the USN's trouble prone new LPD....not good! DFO :eek:

[battlestar]

G'Day

Yup, better response and while lives were again lost...not all of them! Given the large # of personnel on board that could have really been tragic. Their engineering and redundancy seem to @ equal that of the USN's trouble prone new LPD....not good! DFO :eek:

True enough for the sub, yet the LPD San Antonio is the lead ship, the problems that seem to be occuring with her are not repeated (Yet wih luck) on her sister ship New Orleans in the Pacific.

The sub is like a second hand car, hope India can get a refund!:rolleyes:

[designeraccd]

As the saying goes: Buyer BEWARE! Given wottah gr8 steal of aahh deal the Indians are GETTING with the still incomplete carrier.....lotz of luck!

It would be interesting to know how good the newly built Indian ships, like the Talwars, have been? Of course given the "joy" we have been going thru with the new LCS....oh boy. DFO :rolleyes:

[battlestar]

G'Day All

As the saying goes: Buyer BEWARE! Given wottah gr8 steal of aahh deal the Indians are GETTING with the still incomplete carrier.....lotz of luck!
It would be interesting to know how good the newly built Indian ships, like the Talwars, have been? Of course given the "joy" we have been going thru with the new LCS....oh boy. DFO :rolleyes:

The Talwar class was newly built, and the Indian Navy were determined to get it right. Talwar itself had a few teething problems, but the next two were ok.

The Delhi class destroyers on the other hand were nothing but trouble, the first two caused a delay in the Mumbai, before she blew a engine plant prior to a commissioning in late 2000, the changeover of the engine plant ensured an January 2001 commissioning. It is said that all the defects in the Delhi class were fixed by 2003.

As for the carrier...no plans in Russian hands, and a new 1.8 billion ruble price tag! No wonder India started building it own CV in Mumbai this year, by the time Russia has finished, the Indian built one might just be in service!:rolleyes:

Damn right Buyer Beware! You would have thought India would have learned its lesson, which it might have with the purchase of an ex-USN Austin class LPD in resonable nick, but time will tell there too.

[designeraccd]

isn't this a soooo-prize? BEND OVER.............:eek:




India set to pay more for Russian submarine


NEW DELHI: At least 20 people on board the new Russian Akula-II class attack submarine called ‘K-152 Nerpa’ , were killed in an accident on Saturday
during trials in the Sea of Japan off Vladivostok. This submarine is apparently the same vessel that was to be transferred to India in July-August 2009, sources said.

In January 2004, India had also signed a $1.5-billion package deal with Russia for refit of decommissioned aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov and 16 MiG-29 K fighters. But with the package deal now being renegotiated, India might well have to pay another $2 billion to get Gorshkov by 2012. Already, there are indications that a part of the huge cost escalation could be linked to Russia demanding more for Nerpa over the initial $650 million.

The acquisition of nuclear submarines is crucial for India to fulfil its long-standing quest to have a viable nuclear weapon triad — the capability to fire nukes from the air, land and sea.

Nuclear-powered submarines armed with nuclear-tipped missiles , are, after all, considered the most lethal, survivable and effective platform for launching nuclear strikes, especially for a country like India.

India had leased a ‘Charlie-I ’ class Russian nuclear submarine from 1988 to 1991 to give its Navy first-hand experience in nuclear submarine operations, deployment and maintenance. That submarine , too, had been rechristened INS Chakra. The US then had strongly opposed any lease extension, and the expertise gained was steadily lost since India did not operate any other nuclear submarine thereafter.

The Navy will primarily use Nerpa, which will not come equipped with long-range strategic missiles due to international treaties like the Missile Technology Control Regime, to train its personnel to handle the indigenous ATVs (advanced technology vessels). The first of the three indigenous nuclear submarines being constructed under the hush-hush ATV programme at Visakhapatnam is also slated to begin sea trials by early-2009 .

Though India only has 16 conventional diesel-electric submarines at present, with six Scorpenes to be delivered between 2012 and 2017, the objective is to operate at least three SSBNs (nuclear submarines armed with longrange strategic missiles) by 2015.

They will constitute a crucial component of the ‘‘ minimum credible deterrent’ ’ against China , which has 57 attack submarines , including a dozen of them nuclear ones, with new Shang-class (Type-093 ) nuclearpowered attack submarines on the way.

[designeraccd]

More info and????


Friday, November 14, 2008
The Nerpa Incident Goes Hollywood
As a rule, I try to avoid giving instant analysis of major incidents like the Russian Akula II submarine Nerpa incident. When strange things happen, usually the action that caused the strange event is strange in itself. Sure enough, as the details emerge from the investigation of the Nerpa incident, it is beginning to read more and more like a Tom Clancy novel.

To review the details, the incident occurred while the submarine was submerged in the Pacific during builders trials. Media reports claim there was somewhere between 208 and 224 people on the submarine, about 3 times more than normal. During the early evening hours a fire suppression system in the first two compartments, which includes the forward torpedo room and the adjacent section, suddenly activated releasing freon into the compartments. Due to the large number of people on the submarine, many people were sleeping in both compartments as the submarine was operating in a hot bunk schedule for shift rotations. About one hundred people were in the two compartments, about half that number sleeping. Also in the second compartment just behind the torpedo room was the staff for the Russian Pacific Fleet.

Upon release of the Freon 20 people were killed and 21 people were seriously injured. Most of those who were killed were asleep, and inhaled the freon upon its release only to sufficate themselves. Four of the twenty one injured were immediately evacuated by helicopter, while the other seventeen were transferred off the submarine to nearby naval vessels after the submarine surfaced. From the design descriptions discussed regarding the Nerpa, there are seven sections to the nuclear submarine, and six have the Freon based fire suppression system. The only section that does not have the fire suppression system is the section that contains the nuclear reactor. Only the first two activated, and did so with no warning.

At first the incident was thought to be a malfunction of the fire safety equipment, but investigators have concluded there was no malfunction. Like any good novel where mystery and conspiracy play into the plot, RAI Novosti is reporting the Russians have a villain for the incident, indeed they have a confession.


A crew member activated without permission a fire safety system on board the Russian nuclear submarine Nerpa, causing the deaths of 20 people, investigators said on Thursday.

"Military investigators have determined the person who activated, without permission and any particular reason, a fire safety system on board the submarine. He is a sailor from the crew, and he has already confessed," Vladimir Markin, a spokesman for the investigation at the Prosecutor General's Office said.

Criminal charges have already been brought against the crew member, and he faces up to seven years in jail.
This has created a stir among many analysts in Russia. The offending crew member is either a high ranking officer, or there is a conspiracy, there really isn't much middle ground here. The system is designed so it can be activated locally, in the next adjacent apartment, or from a bridge central control station. There are safeguards that prevent the system from being activated except by a high ranking officer, codes that would prevent just anyone from activating the fire suppression system.

The question of a conspiracy is being raised, although very quietly. The manufacturer has already told the media it is impossible for just any crewman to activate the fire suppression system, meaning if it is simply some member of the crew as the official investigators are claiming, then that person must have had some inside knowledge regarding how to activate the system from either an officer on board or some outside source from the shipyard.

If you caught this news early enough, you will notice that many official news agency articles discussing the news of a crew members involvement have been edited. This is almost certainly some form of censorship to stop the speculation that is contributing to quiet rumors of conspiracy. Was someone attempting to kill the Pacific Fleet Commander and his staff? Was someone attempting to kill members of the Amur Shipbuilding company personal that were on board? Was this just a random act of violence by a crew member? If so, how did the crew member know how to activate the fire suppression system? If this submarine is being leased to India, is Russia simply blaming a human to cover up a serious malfunction to insure the deal doesn't fall through? The Industrial espionage theory with a Russian twist has popped up a few places.

It is also odd that the crew member is reportedly facing a penalty of only 7 years for killing 21 people on the ship, particularly when by the account of a number of Russian Navy experts, there are several questioning how some junior crew member could even activate the fire suppression system in the first place. Since the announcement of the confession, news regarding the submarine appears to have dried up. It could be because of the weekend, or it could be the Russians are going to try to make the story disappear.

Regardless, as more details emerge, there are now more questions than answers, and once again a real life submarine incident in Russia trumps even the best Tom Clancy story for mystery and conspiracy. Who is ready to believe the new official story,that it was some junior crew member? Hmm...


From a Naval Blog.................