Medals: Fred Weysom

[nigelweysom]

here is a picture of the medals that my dad Fred Weysom was awarded for his service aboard HMS Whirlwind from 1944 to 1946 19629

[John Brown]

Many thanks for sharing those with us Nigel. My father has a similar set with the difference that instead of the Italy Star he has the Atlantic Star.


Regrds...John

[james_harvey]

my grandfather was awarded the 3945 star, burma star, france and germany star and war medal.

Very nice group to include the defence medal.

Regards

James

[Odin]

I see he has the Pacific bar on his Burma Star, which is effectively another medal.

The most awards for UK personnel were five stars and Defence and War medals.

1939 - 45 Star
Atlantic Star / Air Crew Europe Star / France & Germany Star
Africa Star
Pacific Star / Burma Star
Italy Star
Defence Medal
War Medal

Where one of the multiple choice stars was earned first it was also possible to qualify for a clasp for a second star
eg Atlantic Star with clasp France & Germany Star or Pacific Star with clasp Burma
However if you were entitled to Atlantic Star and Air Crew Europe Star and France & Germany Star you only got one star and one clasp and missed out on the third one.

[nigelweysom]

Odin thanks for the info, it will be helpful for many I'm sure
Nigel

[Wellbran]

Yes the Burma star with bar is pacific star included my dads are like that BUT he should have the Pacific ribbon somewhere but one of those British quirks you could not have too many stars! WHY NOT? some bright spark at the MOD DECIDED it probably Also Dad had a ribbon bar with the pacific ribbon and on that was a silver fleur de lys, also Africa Star and King george the VI lapel badge which I beleive wax for carrying an injury....which for my Dad was a bit rich as he was completely messed up by 3.5yrs in Fukuoka camp 2b Nagasaki POW camp injured while working in the Dry Dock there and fell into the Dry dock during the rush to get out of the way of a USAF raid!

[Odin]

I've done a picture representation of the list of WWII Medals with all the ribbons and possible bars awarded.

The medals are worn in the order shown working downwards and then across (if applicable) with the exception of the France and Germany Star which is worn after the Italy Star.

Note that eligibility for the Air Crew Europe Star stopped when the France & Germany Star started.

So the maximum possible is five stars, two medals plus four bars and two emblems although I'm sure no one individual qualified for the lot.

[Wellbran]

Well as a boy I used to say to my dad Dad! you hae many medals you must have been good, his reply was..."well by the time I got home they did not know what to give me so they gave me one of each" Brilliant answer Dad! took me many years to work it all out lol!

Inidentally He never rated any of the medals eexcept one!...his Boxing medal, as he said "I won that in my own right" He used to keep all the others in a jam jar on the top shelf of the kitchen, he just did not want them. His logic was, " what good are they to me" can't argue really!

[Seagull]

I've really enjoyed reading all these posts!
Seagull

[Seagull]

PS. Especially the one about the jam jar! Please tell your dad.
Seagull

[james_harvey]

I did read somewhere, the top brass only qulaified for 5 stars and the 2 medals hence why they then issued the bars to stop the ordinary service men qualifying for more campaign medals then the chief of staffs.

At one time you couldn't get the 1939-45 star and the africa star, but regulations were relaxed towards the end of the war making it possible to qualify for both, and in most cases the 39-45 star had to be earn't 1st.

Because of this service men serving on the artic convoys and in the atlantic ocean for less then a year only qualified for the 39-45 star only.

Regards

James

[INVINCIBLE]

Odin,

Most informative - well done. What sort of cash value do these medals have - any ideas? You could add the distinctive dark blue and white PDU (LS & GC) medal, which is often seen with fine collections. Probably quite a few members of this forum have been awarded that medal.

[TACKLINE]

One medal that has not been mentioned is the Malta medal,which I hold along with five others.

[Odin]

In answer to the question about the value of WWII Stars / Medals, the real problem is that they were all issued unnamed. So unless there is a named medal with them (such as the Naval Long Service & Good Conduct Medal)then there is no chance of knowing who the recipient was. That, in my opinion, really undermines the 'worth' of the medals.

Some years they had a relatively low value with the exception of the Air Crew Europe Star which has always been highly valued. It also led to the fact that copies were made of the ACE. Now the values of all the stars have increased unfortunately so has the number of copies being made but now all of the medals are being copied. Some of these copies are very good and difficult to tell from originals. Plus WWII medals are still being issued and these also differ slightly from the originals (some genuine medals have larger rings for the ribbons, others have the ring unsoldered). So it is a bit of a minefield out there. However if you have a group mounted on dirty ribbons that has been in the family for years then you are usually on safe ground that they ok.

Some approximate values:
1939-45 Star £10 .... Atlantic Star £25.... Air Crew Europe Star £175 .... Africa Star £12 .... Pacific Star £30 .... Burma Star £15... Italy Star £10 .... France & Germany Star £15.... Defence Medal £15 .... War Medal £10

But if you had a group of say a 1939-45, Atlantic and Africa Stars plus a Defence and War Medals you wouldn't be able to easily sell them for over £60
hope that helps

[INVINCIBLE]

In answer to the question about the value of WWII Stars / Medals, the real problem is that they were all issued unnamed. So unless there is a named medal with them (such as the Naval Long Service & Good Conduct Medal)then there is no chance of knowing who the recipient was. That, in my opinion, really undermines the 'worth' of the medals.

Some years they had a relatively low value with the exception of the Air Crew Europe Star which has always been highly valued. It also led to the fact that copies were made of the ACE. Now the values of all the stars have increased unfortunately so has the number of copies being made but now all of the medals are being copied. Some of these copies are very good and difficult to tell from originals. Plus WWII medals are still being issued and these also differ slightly from the originals (some genuine medals have larger rings for the ribbons, others have the ring unsoldered). So it is a bit of a minefield out there. However if you have a group mounted on dirty ribbons that has been in the family for years then you are usually on safe ground that they ok.

Some approximate values:
1939-45 Star £10 .... Atlantic Star £25.... Air Crew Europe Star £175 .... Africa Star £12 .... Pacific Star £30 .... Burma Star £15... Italy Star £10 .... France & Germany Star £15.... Defence Medal £15 .... War Medal £10

But if you had a group of say a 1939-45, Atlantic and Africa Stars plus a Defence and War Medals you wouldn't be able to easily sell them for over £60
hope that helps

Odin,

Many thanks, sad to think that such great mementos of such great events are worth so little. I wonder why names were not inscribed on them. Our campaign medals, which are for comparatively minor incidents, do at least have our names on them and so may possibly be worth more.

[Brett Hendey]

I think that the World War II campaign medals were the only ones not named by Britain, presumably as an economy measure. This is most regrettable, since personalised campaign medals have always distinguished British medals from those issued in, say, the United States, Continental Europe and elsewhere. Named medals are researchable, so are much more highly prized by collectors. The WWII medals issued by South Africa and Australia were named.

Brett

[r.morrison]

In France, campaign medals are generally issued with a bar for each territory served in, and there are no lmits to the number of bars that can be worn. If you have qualified for it and the relevant office in Paris has edited the certificate, you can wear the bar.
Individual named medals have rarely been issued since the end of the first war.

[INVINCIBLE]

In France, campaign medals are generally issued with a bar for each territory served in, and there are no lmits to the number of bars that can be worn. If you have qualified for it and the relevant office in Paris has edited the certificate, you can wear the bar.
Individual named medals have rarely been issued since the end of the first war.

That is most interesting and I wonder how many other countries do not inscribe the medals they issue. In my ignorance I assumed that all medals were inscribed. When I worked in the Naval Secretary's office and HMS CENTURION I know that we went to great lengths to ensure that names were accurately inscribed. I wonder whether the fact that we, at least until recently, issue far fewer medals than most other countries has anything to do with it. Next time I am at an antique fayre I must look more closely at the medals, which invariably are on sale.

[Odin]

There are a number of British Medals that have been / still are issued unnamed. Several Victorian campaign medals were issued unnamed - Crimea for example (although some of these were subsequently named up by regiments). Most orders are not named OBE, MBE etc; in some cases they are enamelled and there is no place to add a name (eg CBE, CVO). Also some officers gallantry awards were unnamed (Military Cross, Distinguished Flying Cross etc) although now these are available to all ranks some are being issued named (such as the Military Cross). Victoria and George Crosses have always been named.

Very early medals such as the Waterloo Medal and the Military General Service Medal (Peninsula War period) were impressed ie stamped with the recipient's details. Quite a few victorian campaign medals were engraved, with many for India being done in a running script. Then by the 20th Century most medals were impressed (eg WWI). Then the RAF started using machine engraving for their medals. Now most medals are laser engraved. The problem with that is it isn't very deep and you feel as if you could easily rub the name off (although adding another name might be difficult unless you have access to a laser engraver). For a collector the style of naming on a particular medal is often a key to whether it is genuine or not - most collectors try to remember the styles for those medals they collect so they can hopefully spot a dodgy medal.

The WWII medals seem to be a case of post war austerity. The Stars were stamped out en-mass and are not particularly attractive. The Defence and War Medals were issued in cupro nickel rather then silver, again saving a few shillings. Also a silver medal has to be struck twice but cupro nickel medals can be done in a single strike (never understood why as cupro nickel seems harder). So leaving the names off was also a further cost saving. After the WWII medals were issued Boots and Timothy Whites offered a medal naming service. Sometimes you see WWII medals that have been named in neat small capitals - these were done by Boots / TWs.

[james_harvey]

Odin,

Most informative - well done. What sort of cash value do these medals have - any ideas? You could add the distinctive dark blue and white PDU (LS & GC) medal, which is often seen with fine collections. Probably quite a few members of this forum have been awarded that medal.

I collect medals and have not heard of the PDU medal. Is it the same as the Royal Navy LSGC Medal?

James

[INVINCIBLE]

I collect medals and have not heard of the PDU medal. Is it the same as the Royal Navy LSGC Medal?

James

James,

Yes you are right the 'PDU' medal is the affectionate nickname for the distinctive blue and white ribbon Long Service and Good Conduct medal. There are several thoughts as to why it is called 'PDU' it has been suggested that it derived from the fact that when it was awarded a bonus was paid and the man's Service Certificate was annotated "Paid Up" in the appropriate column against the award of the medal. it was not awarded to officers but a man promoted to officer retained the medal and ribbon if he had been awarded it before promotion.

[Dreadnought]

Hi Nigel,

Just changed the thread title so as it is more readily identifiable to your Dad ... hope that's ok.

Cheers

[nigelweysom]

Hi Nigel,

Just changed the thread title so as it is more readily identifiable to your Dad ... hope that's ok.

Cheers

ok by me
Nigel

[jainso31]

My late fathers medals are as follows:-
1939/45 Star
Atlantic Star with the Arctic Star added to ribbon
Africa Star
Pacific Star
Defence Medal
1939/45 War Medal
RNR LSGC Medal and bar
He also has the unofficial Dunkirk Medal


jainso31