View Full Version : RN Destroyers: C Class
Looking through the photographs of the CA's there are two photo's of Cavendish the one on the left has her Pennant No as R 15 and the one on the right supposedly shows her as D 15 refuelling from HMS Arbitter the ship in the photograph is not Cavendish note the twin 4.5s in turrets all the CA's had single mountings. I suspect this ship is HMS Loyal. any input much appreciated.
Hiya Big Al
D15 has got the same twin 4.7s as the "J", "K" and the Tribals. As you say the "C"s had single 4.5s. This photo is a mystery to me too.:confused: Perhaps Melv or John Brown can shed more light on this.
Alan B
Hi Allan,
HMS Loyal was the only one I could come up with, as her original Pennant No was F 15, but the wartime system of Pennant Nos changed and the Cs were R Cavendish was R15 and reverted to D 15 after the war and kept this till she was scrapped in 1967.
AlZictorini
02-09-2007, 20:54
A clue is the pacific blue/grey camo visible on the ships hull. Searching the listings in “Pendant Numbers 1944-1945” by Lt Cdr. John M Maber RN (retd) Warships Supplement 104 (British Pacific Fleet – Destroyers), HMS Nizam had the Pendant D15 from 1944 – 45, returning to G38 on leaving the Pacific. HMS Nizam was a N Group Javelin Class Destroyer, these ships had the same gun mounts as the one in the mystery picture. Hope this solves the problem?
Regards
AlZictorini
AlZictorini
I think you've hit the nail on the head
Nice one, nuvver prob solved.
Alan :D
astraltrader
11-04-2008, 20:14
Hi I have this photo of an un-named destroyer with the pennant D 15. I assume because of the twin 4.5 mounts that it is of Nizam rather than Cavendish?
tonclass
11-04-2008, 20:27
This is Cavendish, Terry (6th Destroyer Flotilla) Not Nizam.
astraltrader
11-04-2008, 20:36
If you say Ton - but what about what was written in the first post in this thread? I always thought it was Cavendish until I read that!
tonclass
11-04-2008, 20:55
I meant the pic you posted on page #6. That is Cavendish. Haven't checked the CA file yet.
C class destroyers,
would any of the members have any pics of "chequers"...i have a mate ,who is in the association ,and meets each year,......and i know he would be most great full ,if you could , oblige, it would make a old matelot very happy. :)
cylla
tonclass
11-04-2008, 21:37
How's this Cylla ?
Batstiger
11-04-2008, 21:55
Do you think he would want one from the air as well?
Bob.
astraltrader
11-04-2008, 23:22
Hi Cylla - I have got a few although they are not brilliant.
That is really great of you all, for putting your selfs out for me ...i am going to send them to him via e.mail. ....we got to know each other last year ,and hope to meet again this year.
cylla
tim lewin
14-04-2008, 04:30
If you lookk back through the earlier posts you will find other stuff about Chequers; I asked if anyone had any memories of her commission in 1949/50 in the Med. My father was the flotilla gunnery officer and Prince Philip was the first lieutennent. They served mainly in the Med but were sent to the Persian Gulf when the Iranians nationalised the oil refinery at Ibadan.
All best
tim
tim lewin
14-04-2008, 04:32
PS. Tribals were equipped with four twin 4.7 main armament not 4.5...one of which, "Y" was subsequently replaced with one of the twin 4" dual purpose mountings
sure everyone knew that!
Re picture 4
This must have been Mac's draft before he joined the Unwanted with all that smoke and steam!!!!!!!!!!!
astraltrader
29-04-2009, 22:32
OK David [Mousey].
I have now cleared the decks for you to start loading your pages tomorrow!
I look forward to reading them!!:)
ivorthediver
30-04-2009, 05:14
Hi I have this photo of an un-named destroyer with the pennant D 15. I assume because of the twin 4.5 mounts that it is of Nizam rather than Cavendish?
Forgive me for going off at a tangent ,but I notice on most pictures of ships, presumably entering port , have the crew mustered on deck, fore and aft, but who is the one just aft of the bow standing alone please, and what would his "Duty" be in that situation ?
Regards Ivor
Forgive me for going off at a tangent ,but I notice on most pictures of ships, presumably entering port , have the crew mustard on deck, fore and aft, but who is the one just aft of the bow standing alone please, and what would his "Duty" be in that situation ?
Regards Ivor
He is the Officer of the Foc'sle. That is his place when everyone is "fallen in" for entering/leaving harbour. When everyone "falls out" and the ship is about to come alongside the Bunting Tosser will go up there ready ro raise the Jack. Unless it is before "Colours" or after "sunset"
Batstiger
30-04-2009, 14:04
I think you will find that he was called the Cable Officer.
Ivor, I like the mustard bit, I am sure you had mustered in mind before the error?
Bob.
Was it Comus that took a shell hit in the for'd boiler room during the Korean war?
Was it Comus that took a shell hit in the for'd boiler room during the Korean war?
Not strictly Comus but the attached may be of interest to all those who served in or are interested in the C Class. Note 3 more attachments to come as there appears to be the limit for one posting? With all due acknowledgements to the author and publisher. Re Chequers please also see thread about Sliema Creek. Best wishes to all.
[QUOTE=oldsalt;50519]Was it Comus that took a shell hit in the for'd boiler room during the Korean war?[/QUOTE
Herewith one of the final 3 attachments of general interest. I will have to obtain advice from the Moderator re the other 2 which are possibly over the limit for single attachments - 2.23 mb and 2.55 mb respectively. I will post the page on Comus asap. I dont know about Comus' boiler, have not read that page yet but have a look at Concorde's turret!
Was it Comus that took a shell hit in the for'd boiler room during the Korean war?
Herewith page on Comus as promised.
Hi I have this photo of an un-named destroyer with the pennant D 15. I assume because of the twin 4.5 mounts that it is of Nizam rather than Cavendish?
I think those are single mounts fwd, not twins.
Chieftain on North Sea exercises 1955
Was it Comus that took a shell hit in the for'd boiler room during the Korean war?
Hopefully the final four - I have split them into single pages which may need a 90 deg turn? Apols about the quality but hopefully its better than nothing?
Was it Comus that took a shell hit in the for'd boiler room during the Korean war?
Comus making smoke as promised and the Chequers photos turned 90 degs.
Thats all for now.
H.M.S CHAPLE.
What this all about {...only leaving the mess to work whilst at sea ...}...i don't think so ,i spent many a hour in the fender storage on the Mohawk at sea ,before starting another duty in the S/R,s dining .
And look at the state of Scylla,s flight deck.....ah wot..
cylla
H.M.S CHAPLE.
What this all about {...only leaving the mess to work whilst at sea ...}...i don't think so ,i spent many a hour in the fender storage on the Mohawk at sea ,before starting another duty in the S/R,s dining .
And look at the state of Scylla,s flight deck.....ah wot..
cylla
Would that be Chaplet Cylla? Glad someone has looked at my initial efforts. Got to take the rough with the smooth. At least it was not been for nowt?
Hi DAVE ,
Can you remember the time,s out of working hours ,and you were apart of the " sea boats crew" ....sitting about by the sea-boat ,either reading a book [ you bought of sew sew ,no piccy,s]or just loafing about ,getting bronze,and getting paid for it .......oh happy days.
That,s the days we had "whalers " for sea boats ,not rubber ducks......
cylla
Hi DAVE ,
Can you remember the time,s out of working hours ,and you were apart of the " sea boats crew" ....sitting about by the sea-boat ,either reading a book [ you bought of sew sew ,no piccy,s]or just loafing about ,getting bronze,and getting paid for it .......oh happy days.
That,s the days we had "whalers " for sea boats ,not rubber ducks......
cylla
Imagine trying to pull or should I say paddle a rubber duck along the 1 mile regatta course. Anyone remember the whaler races in Grand Harbour for the What ??? Cup. Believe the RFAs were allowed to enter? Also the tricks some got up to in order to make their whalers lighter. Was'nt a rule introduced that they had to be capable of being dropped as a sea boat/lifeboat?
Not strictly Comus but the attached may be of interest to all those who served in or are interested in the C Class. Note 3 more attachments to come as there appears to be the limit for one posting? With all due acknowledgements to the author and publisher. Re Chequers please also see thread about Sliema Creek. Best wishes to all.
A few more of the 1st D.F. CH'S. Apols for poor quality but in those days we 'poor' boys/od's could only afford 127 film type cameras - open out Kodak's with black bellows. David.
tonclass
05-05-2009, 21:19
Mousey, would love to see all these these pix scanned individually !!
Rik do you mean the 5 of the 1st D.F.? Does it make a difference one at a time?
Herewith my latest offering of Chequers off Suda Bay and 3 of her in dry dock Malta. All in 1951 I think. I have done them seperately so that you can compare them with the 5? All poor due only 127. Some of our crew came back onboard via the supporting beams, after having had a few of course! I was very impressed of the foto showing TWO destroyers side by side in the same dry dock. Cant remember the thread? The placing of the beams had to be spot on. I would not fancy walking around underneath though.
MOUSEY,
Was this the photo ,you were referring too ,of two ships in the same dry dock ??
cylla
FISH & FISHING PART 1. Fotos in both parts were taken by self from Chequers in May 1951 apart from the one from Chivalrous. Not up to good standard due Kodak 'open out' camera, black bellows and looking down into a prism smaller than a oxo cube, with 127 film. Please bear that in mind when you are looking for the depth charge in PART 2. Anyone apart from Tim remember that type of camera? Now got a Nikon Coolpix S210 the size of a credit card. Still learning to use it!
FISH & FISHING PART 2. In those days I believe fish cost about £2k? Woe betide anyone who lost one. Imagine the work involved in lowering a boat, towing the fish back, getting the 'rope' round it so it balanced and then getting it back on board. Wonder if anyone out there was involved in doing it and can enlighten us? Believe the depth charges were 'war surplus?' Certainly in my time there seemed to be no problem dropping one when we wanted fresh fish for tea. David.
Mousey, would love to see all these these pix scanned individually !!
Good Evening Rik. Please clarify which pix you wish me to scan in singley? Hope my latest efforts are ok? I am very impressed with the way you can magnify them on this site. I have not seen the detail before so ye olde Kodak was not so bad after all. 127 alls forgiven. Regards David
I dug into my album and found the attached photos. I had posted two of our crash boat, HMS Charity, on passage to Singapore in 1949 in a different thread but have repeated them here for those who might have missed them. They were taken from the flight deck of HMS Triumph. The other two are of HMS Cockade when she was part of the group escort off Korea. From memory, the jackstay transfer was the doctor attending a casualty aboard Cockade. He looks remarkably cheerful about it.
Ken
tonclass
07-05-2009, 18:48
Hi David. Have sent you a PM.
MOUSEY,
Was this the photo ,you were referring too ,of two ships in the same dry dock ??
cylla
Thats the one Cylla. TKS V.M. Sent an earlier thank you but seems to have disappeared? David.
tonclass
07-05-2009, 19:02
Some pix of Chieftain
ivorthediver
07-05-2009, 19:35
Some pix of Chieftain
Great pics ...love to see them stretching the steel a bit
Great pics ...love to see them stretching the steel a bit
You wouldn't say that if you was on a Type 14 (Blackwood Class) Frigate. They would roll in the Pool of London!!!
ivorthediver
08-05-2009, 05:28
You wouldn't say that if you was on a Type 14 (Blackwood Class) Frigate. They would roll in the Pool of London!!!
Yea but not so bad below the water line...... Eh
Some pix of Chieftain
Great photos they bring back many memories of my time on Chieftain
1955/56 we certainly got around in those days,
Brian.
PUZZLE PICTURE ~ PLEASE PROVIDE THE ANSWER
I took the attached in April 1953 in Leghorn. On the reverse I noted "Sqdn PTI showing off with a prodgy." The puzzle is ~ where was I standing when I took it? I cant figure it out? Are we lookig at A or Z gun? What is that low 'barrier' in the foreground? I will check this thread with genuine interest. Thanks in antic. David.
tonclass
08-05-2009, 18:17
'A' gun David. You can see the jackstaff and anchor cables.
jbryce1437
08-05-2009, 19:14
Looks like three abreast, pic taken from inboard ship, showing gun of middle ship and the bow and jackstaff of outboard ship just in view to the right.
OK Rik. Agreed looking forward. Now that I have used this sites' magic magnifier, which is not available when you initially post. Whole load of detail I have never seen before. I'll end up posting all my old 127's just to see details I did not realise exist. Agree with JBryce1437 that I must have jumped over onto inboard CH to take foto. Now only need to know what that low barrier thing is in the foreground? Theres always an answer. Its just a matter of finding it! Thank you both. David.
PUZZLE PICTURE ~ PLEASE PROVIDE THE ANSWER
I took the attached in April 1953 in Leghorn. On the reverse I noted "Sqdn PTI showing off with a prodgy." The puzzle is ~ where was I standing when I took it? I cant figure it out? Are we lookig at A or Z gun? What is that low 'barrier' in the foreground? I will check this thread with genuine interest. Thanks in antic. David.
Hopefully an 'improved' version of foto. David
Jan Steer
10-05-2009, 19:06
Came across these C type postcards in my collection and thought I should share them with you.
best wishes
Jan
harry.gibbon
10-05-2009, 19:40
Came across these C type postcards in my collection and thought I should share them with you.
best wishes
Jan
Hi Jan, someone has got to be the first and it looks like falling to me...
I see One Battle Class and two C's revealed in your postcard posting.
I know Corunna starts with a C But...
Little h
Jan Steer
11-05-2009, 07:40
Thanks little H. I had the devil in me at the time but you are the only one that noticed proving, I think once and for all, that comms rates are the brains of the fleet !!!
best wishes
Jan
tim lewin
11-05-2009, 09:18
the picture of Corunna escorting Eagle was takenSummer 1956 in the Med. Not sure whch day exactly but it was one of dozens taken the same day by a chopper from Eagle.
tim
harry.gibbon
11-05-2009, 13:16
Thanks little H. I had the devil in me at the time but you are the only one that noticed proving, I think once and for all, that comms rates are the brains of the fleet !!!
best wishes
Jan
Oooh careful Jan, Ivor will be on our case and expect us to be parading between watches with side-swipers and earphones hanging off our money belts ... ah la the stokers and their wheel spanners!!!! Little h
Oooh careful Jan, Ivor will be on our case and expect us to be parading between watches with side-swipers and earphones hanging off our money belts ... ah la the stokers and their wheel spanners!!!! Little h
Little h
Be careful of Ivor....He bites and admits it in another thread!!!!!
I have been vindicated....Just got to find evidence that Stokers bite as well and I will be proved innocent when my appeal comes up!!!!!
Jan Steer
11-05-2009, 15:08
Lads, lads..... I think that instead of Ivor making overtures to the stokers he would be much better placed as a plate layer in the wardroom. I believe they got a grat issue of grovelling pads for their knees and he seems to be doing a lot of that just lately!!
best wishes
Jan
Came across these C type postcards in my collection and thought I should share them with you.
best wishes
Jan
Morning Gents. Dont know if you saw my earlier 'poor' 127 offerings. Herewith, hopefully an improvement showing Chivalrous and Chieftain when they were in the 1st D.F. or was it 1st D.S. (NATO CHANGE?) in early 1950's. With thanks to Terry for his tutoring. Regards David. P.S. Not really an improvement. OVER enlarged?
Good try Mousey Don't give up. You'll get there eventually
Dave Hutson
08-06-2009, 19:17
GGCV de MWSP - Hi Mousey - so who was MWSP ??
The Malta Regatta was for the "Cock of the Fleet" which to the winner could be hoisted at the Main. And the Dhiagsa man painted it on his boat with pride when carried on board. Many a Jimmy caught a B*ll*ck**g for shaving his whaler and I remember ours was like rice paper - and we still didn't win.
That was when CinC Med [Louis M or Charlie Lamb- memory dims] said random checks would be carried out to drop whalers to establish seaboat
worthiness.
Yours aye.....Dave H
GGCV de MWSP - Hi Mousey - so who was MWSP ??
The Malta Regatta was for the "Cock of the Fleet" which to the winner could be hoisted at the Main. And the Dhiagsa man painted it on his boat with pride when carried on board. Many a Jimmy caught a B*ll*ck**g for shaving his whaler and I remember ours was like rice paper - and we still didn't win.
That was when CinC Med [Louis M or Charlie Lamb- memory dims] said random checks would be carried out to drop whalers to establish seaboat
worthiness.
Yours aye.....Dave H
Morning Dave H. Yes you are near the mark that I remember especially re whalers that were used had to be capable of being dropped as seaboats or even lifeboats - their crews were different remember? No doubt Lord Louis was involved. Whatever else he was fair minded and always well informed. C.S.1 first time round then C in C. I seem to remember that whilst we were away on our summer cruises, the RFA's etc., who were entitled to take part in the Grand Harbour race, got up to their tricks as you say shaving their boats. If only we could rewind and actually see what happened! Regards David. PS. Can't remember who MWSP was but certainly not as old as GGCV !!! ???
Just dug out an old 126 of Chivalrous refuelling alongside Glory in 51 or 52 for somewhere else and thought you would like to see it? The 1st D.F. then was Chequers, Chevron, Chivalrous and Chieftain. Re the good old whaler. Someone asked what was it length, its weight and its life saving capacity? Those who have seen the recent answer please wait and see if someone else replies. Ditto the following. Which of its fittings is connected with relegion?
CAVALIER. Theres still life in a C Class.
Apols for end of lines being cut off. Fault somewhere.
Can anyone advise best way to convert an email into an attachment suitable for the site to upload please? Had to printout and scan in. Must be an easier way? Still Nozzering.
CHAPLET. Re the attached. Can anyone advise what the quarter 'fittings' are? Was she converted for minelaying? If so they could be where the railway rails terminated in order to throw the mines clear of the hull? Obedient, which was converted for minelaying, had similar fittings as had Comet.
CHAPLET & COMET ~ MINELAYERS? Believe I am on the right track/rails.
C Class Destroyers by Harold Cox.
Comet. p.10. "Comet took on a new role, losing some armament, and gaing a consignment of sea mines, together with the necessary 2 rails at the stern which enabled the mines to be laid."
Chaplet. p.23. "Chaplet later became part of the 1st Destroyer Squadron, and was converted to a destroyer/minelayer, haveing one of her 4.5 main armament guns removed to allow this to happen. Destroyers were now in Squadrons, not Flotillas as heretofore."
Note: On Obedient there were 2 rails on both sides of the ship from the break to the stern, not just at the stern.
Dave Hutson
23-10-2009, 17:15
Hi Mousey, Sorry I didn't get back to you on MWSP - I shot thru to Spain for a few weeks, but now back on stream.
MWSP was HMS Chevron [D51] of the !st D.S.
Dave H
Hi Mousey, Sorry I didn't get back to you on MWSP - I shot thru to Spain for a few weeks, but now back on stream.
MWSP was HMS Chevron [D51] of the !st D.S.
Dave H
Tks Dave. Welcome back. Standby for wet stuff tomorrow. Shud have known MWSP. Worked her enuff as her leader. As you will see elsewhere did not realise some CH's had been converted for minelaying. Wonder what prompted their Lordships to start that? David.
Dave Hutson
23-10-2009, 18:42
Well if you consider the great number of Destroyers we had at that time it made sense to convert some of them to multitasking. I think great strides were made over the years with Destroyers and their capabilities. They don't build them today and the original Darings were probably the last of a line and love them or hate them they were impressive looking ships. Personally I could never love a Daring - to me the V&W's, the Battles, the Weapons, the Ca's, Co's and Ch's [and in particular the Chevron] were the Greyhounds of the RN [not wishing to offend any I have omitted or criticised].
Yep, Rain and Blow tomorrow - rig upper deck lifelines, put the potmess on and open the corned dog.
Dave H
Came across these C type postcards in my collection and thought I should share them with you.
best wishes
JanExcuse me Jan but Corunna does not belong. One simple way is REAL C's only had single gun turrets not doubles. Great cards. Tks.[/B][/B]
"put the potmess on and open the corned dog."
Dave H
Crikey Dave you lived high on the hog! Pot mess and Corned Dog? Your funds must have making a good return. Mousey.
harry.gibbon
23-10-2009, 19:50
GFXU here....
Aaah yes goffers and white horses everywhere .... on MWST we'd have the after galley and the 2nd W/T office flashed up, we also had the sick bay back there over the comms mess so we were quite self sufficient!!!
Little h
GFXU here....
Aaah yes goffers and white horses everywhere .... on MWST we'd have the after galley and the 2nd W/T office flashed up, we also had the sick bay back there over the comms mess so we were quite self sufficient!!!
Little h
The best Goffers were to be had ashore Harry. My daughter could not find anyone doing them a couple of years ago. Sick bay on a C? Never had one on Chequers but then again she was fitted out as leader and with all those hoffysir type staff on board I suppose they needed the space for their cabins.
Hi Cylla,
Tidied up the tears in Terry's photo of CHEQUERS.
Cheers
Bruce
harry.gibbon
23-10-2009, 21:09
No there wouldn't be David... I took the liberty of the fact that Battles as a class and Corunna had been referred to in recent posts ... so thought you might have clocked it by inclusion of call sign ... Camperdown a Battle 1st DS;):) (Both a C and a CA ;):))
Little h
Dave Hutson
24-10-2009, 12:40
Had a three badge Leading Tel who taught the whole mess the secrets of good canteen messing - so yes we lived well. {Always Roast Pork for Sunday dinner followed by big messtin Slab Fruitcake and Hammy Eggy Cheesey for Supper [wiv Beetroot]}.
You was lucky super gollie - we had the snakepit on Chevron wiv the Paintlocker above and the for'ard FFO tanks below. I think the sickbay was next to the Cox'n's Office in the Ossifers Cabin Flat.
Thinks - them minelaying protusions out each side of the backend of Chaplet would have come in handy during the Cod Wars.
MWST must have been Chieftain or was it Chequers [earlier commission] ???
Dave H
harry.gibbon
24-10-2009, 12:46
Dave the answer is in my post #77 ... Camperdown!!!
I'm off to the Battle Class thread before I'm in bovver!
Little h
Dave Hutson
24-10-2009, 12:50
Sorry arry had a senior moment. Mixed 77 with one from Mousey saying he worked MWSP enough times when he was leader.
Must lay off the Night Nurse.
Dave H
This is the photograph that the thread refferred to at the begining It has taken me a while to find it again. If I encroach on anyones territory I apologise in advance, Helmet and Anti Flash on awaiting Incoming.
Had a three badge Leading Tel who taught the whole mess the secrets of good canteen messing - so yes we lived well. {Always Roast Pork for Sunday dinner followed by big messtin Slab Fruitcake and Hammy Eggy Cheesey for Supper [wiv Beetroot]}.
You was lucky super gollie - we had the snakepit on Chevron wiv the Paintlocker above and the for'ard FFO tanks below. I think the sickbay was next to the Cox'n's Office in the Ossifers Cabin Flat.
Thinks - them minelaying protusions out each side of the backend of Chaplet would have come in handy during the Cod Wars.
MWST must have been Chieftain or was it Chequers [earlier commission] ???
Dave H
You did live well Dave. I wonder what they have to eat on the new Darings? Bearing in mind of course the latest government guide lines. I had dumplings today but at least my daughter found some Atoria suet which was 'less fat.' Yes Chieftain was in the 1st D.S. (D.F.) so I should know hers too. I seem to remember Chequers' was something like MVCV. Bet Little h has a web site up his sleeve giving all the old callsigns. I've only found one which is not earlier enough. Anyway its too early on the 26th now so I'd better sling the Mick. Nite all. David.
harry.gibbon
25-10-2009, 23:35
Mousey.... how did you guess ...
MVCY de GFXU
Little h
harry.gibbon
25-10-2009, 23:58
Mousey me olde mate; I could however quite easily have had a senior moment and sent this...
GJME de GFXU
and that would have been me calling myself .... "Avatar this is Signature"
got it??:confused::confused::confused:;):D:D
Little h
tjstoneman
26-10-2009, 06:24
Big Al (post #81) asked about the ship referred to "at the beginning"; the photo in post #81 shows HMAS NIZAM wearing her Pacific Fleet pennant number of D15, as AlZictorini said in post #4 of this thread.
Tim
Mousey me olde mate; I could however quite easily have had a senior moment and sent this...
GJME de GFXU
and that would have been me calling myself .... "Avatar this is Signature"
got it??:confused::confused::confused:;):D:D
Little h
LITH DE MOUS QSL. TKS. Where did you dig it up from or is it one of the last few official secrets? Not much else is these days.
Dave Hutson
26-10-2009, 09:13
Whoa, Slow Down, Desist and wotsit.
All this callsign bizness is an infiltration from the Comms Only Thread.
Keep this up and little h will be asking us to authenticate our posts next.
[Thinks - can anyone remember the "Z" code for "Authentication is" anyone that is other than 'arry or Fairlead]
Dave H [GGNM GKZL MWSP the rest have vaporised]
Great signature photo Big Al - Goffers, Goffers everywhere but not a drop to drink.
harry.gibbon
26-10-2009, 13:49
David re:-LITH DE MOUS QSL. TKS. Where did you dig it up from or is it one of the last few official secrets? Not much else is these days.
which one...MVCY or GJME or GFXU???
Little h
David re:-LITH DE MOUS QSL. TKS. Where did you dig it up from or is it one of the last few official secrets? Not much else is these days.
which one...MVCY or GJME or GFXU???
Little h
All (thort I was going to get away with a shortish answer there but got caught by the 10 character rule).
Wots all this nonsence!!!!!
ABCDs XYZZs !!!!!!
Wots it got to do with C Class Destroyers.
Have the dit dit dit dah dah dah boys moved out of the Comms branch thread??????
Get back into the B.W.O. and do some work forthwith!!!!!!!!!!
Wots all this nonsence!!!!!
ABCDs XYZZs !!!!!!
Wots it got to do with C Class Destroyers.
Have the dit dit dit dah dah dah boys moved out of the Comms branch thread??????
Get back into the B.W.O. and do some work forthwith!!!!!!!!!!
Yes SIR but they were C Class C/S's. Wots a BWO? Was only on small ships. .- .-. p.s. -.-
B.W.O. = Bridge Wireless Office
Dave Hutson
26-10-2009, 16:11
Lookey, Lookey, Commee Sailors.
This is the C Class Destroyers thread - if you don't want the Forum Plods on yer backs get back on the subject.
MWSP .-.-. ...-.-
B.W.O. = Bridge Wireless Office
Ah, I see QPR, so they had one for 'them' and one for us. But wots that got to do with the C Class? We did'nt have them unless it was a later mod? P.S. I can almost hear you muttering "I give up." Would not blame you.
alanbenn
26-10-2009, 17:08
Wots all this nonsence!!!!!
ABCDs XYZZs !!!!!!
Wots it got to do with C Class Destroyers.
Have the dit dit dit dah dah dah boys moved out of the Comms branch thread??????
Get back into the B.W.O. and do some work forthwith!!!!!!!!!!
Dave, save your breath mate, one thing I learnt about communicators is, there's no communicating with 'em.......:p:p:p
Regards
Alan
I think that you may be right, Alan
Dave Hutson
26-10-2009, 19:03
Hey come on guys ...... See Comms thread ..... I capitulated and took the Comms jabber away from this thread and issued a warning so we could get back to Destroyer talk and a Communicator couldn't do more - cud ee???????
Come on Mr Moderator - back me up ....... pleezeeeeeeeeee!
Dave H
Congratulation Dave. You did well. I wouldn't have expected any different from you
My question to get back on thread.
Was there any difference in CAs and CHs. Or were they all the same class with the normal slight differences that you would expect in a class of ship..
Dave Hutson
26-10-2009, 19:52
Dave, I have just been reading up on the CA's and the only significant possible difference I an find is that, I believe, and one of our Gunnery experts may correct me, was that the CH's had four single 4.7's.
Dave H
QprDave & DH,
CA's,CR's CO's and CH's were all built under the war emergency programme and all were fitted out the same.
Armament:-
4x4.5" Guns
1xTwin 40mm
8x20mm
8x21"Torpedo Tubes
This armament was standard to all 32 ships, 8 per Flotilla.When the CA's were modified during the 50s X mounting was removed along with one set of Torpedo Tubes to make way for 2xSquid Mortars Carron being the first of the class.CH's introduced the Mk V1 Director and RPC for the main armament, again during the 50s one set of tubes was removed to be replaced with Squid.
Hope this helps.
tjstoneman
26-10-2009, 20:51
Dave,
The Ca class had different fire control directors to the Ch, Co and Cr classes (known as the 'K' Tower, significantly different visually from the Mk VI director fitted to the other three classes), and the later three classes had Remote Power Control for the main armament (which didn't show externally, but the extra weight meant that the forward set of quadruple torpedo tubes was omitted, thus the Ca class had eight tubes, the remainder only had four). Not sure what reference indicates that the Ch class had 4.7" guns - all my references say that all four classes had 4.5" Mk IV weapons.
Tim
Dave, I have just been reading up on the CA's and the only significant possible difference I an find is that, I believe, and one of our Gunnery experts may correct me, was that the CH's had four single 4.7's.
Dave H
Good evening you 2 Daves. Leave me out the David family for now. Knocking on a bit so sometimes get a bit confused who you are referring to. Anyway attached is a bit of tech. info. Does it help? Note there are also the CR's which nobody seems to mention. Have a bit on them too if you want it? As for the guns, yes the Gunnery Branch will correct me too but I believe they ALL had single barrel turrets. Best wishes Mousey P.S. Lit h note the leader had + 36, rather high?, but would account for why we did not have a sick bay on Chequers. From memory all the heads of Depts. were commanders except Jimmy the 1 ~ the Duke, only a 2 and half ringer.
Dave Hutson
26-10-2009, 21:07
Thanks guys - we are well and truly back on thread. But I think we all agree they were great ships.
Dave H
[QUOTE=tjstoneman;80782]Dave,
The Ca class had different fire control directors to the Ch, Co and Cr classes (known as the 'K' Tower, significantly different visually from the Mk VI director fitted to the other three classes), and the later three classes had Remote Power Control for the main armament (which didn't show externally, but the extra weight meant that the forward set of quadruple torpedo tubes was omitted, thus the Ca class had eight tubes, the remainder only had four). Not sure what reference indicates that the Ch class had 4.7" guns - all my references say that all four classes had 4.5" Mk IV weapons.
Tim[/QUOTE
Apols Tim re nobody referring to the CR's. We were posting around the same time. Still no GIZMO ?
Thanks for the detailed answer to my previous question everyone
harry.gibbon
26-10-2009, 21:46
Gents, since Qpr's recent question, 4 other contributors have referred to their 'sources/references/reading-up' info, with only Mousey dropping in a pair of attachments. The main thrust of the differences between the types is apparently the main armament and its associated gun direction systems... plus the removal of a set of tubes.
Point of my post is that with the apparent wealth of source information, which I am assuming includes pics, and the relatively large numbers of vessels in the 4 classes to go at; the matter of this 'Gizmo' on the early directors has not been able to be resolved.
This was clearly a piece of equipment fitted not just to the C classes but on a very few of the very early Battles .... (no I am not wandering off thread) BUT it was a fit on only the early versions of the Mk VI Gun Direction Platforms !!!
I hope all of the contributors will therefore search again their sources to establish if there is any reference to the thing!!!
Little h
Mainly for the Dave/David Bros. but Lit h maybe interested. For completeness herewith Tech. Info. I have. Apols for dupes but better to have it all in one post? I have info on individual ships of the class. Please ask. If no reply the Admiral of Moderation has caught up with me. Await details of my Court Martial. I may need a good defending officer!
Dave Hutson
27-10-2009, 10:49
Sorry guys, put it down to a Communicator trespassing in the world of Gunnery.
The 4.7 memory came from an article I did years ago on HMS Codrington.
She was the result of a class of Post WWI Prototypes [namely Amazon and Ambuscade. built 1926]
They were the first to be fitted with 4.7's and this was to continue until late in 1943 when the CA's emerged. The first to be fitted with 4.5 were the "Z" class [Myngs, Zambesi, Zebra, Zenith etc].
The reason I did the article on Codrington [D65 built 1929] [Although a C she was the first of the "A" class] was she had 5 x 4.7's the fifth being sited aft of the funnel and fitted for hi altitude firing. The rest of the class the "A"'s Antelope, Arrow, Ardent etc had 4. Codrington's extra gun didn't do her much good because she was sunk in Dover Harbour by enemy aircraft 27 July
1940.
Apologies for causing confusion. Permission to reenter the C Class Destroyers Club?
Dave H
Try as I might, I still cannot track down any information on the elusive GIZMO but it will not deter me. You cannot get away from the fact that even in the 60s they looked like Warships.
Here are a couple of Cavendish entering Malta in 62. And one when she was laid up in Pompey 67.
Here are a couple of Cavendish entering Malta in 62. And one when she was laid up in Pompey 67.The mods dont exactly enhance her lines do they? Bit of a dogs dinner compared with the original.
tonclass
04-11-2009, 22:29
Shame the last pic is so grainey. First two are excellent Al.
astraltrader
05-11-2009, 00:52
I agree with Rik - the first two are very good Al. Many thanks. :)
Rik,Terry,
Cheers the last one was sent to me by a m8, but I dont have anything to sort it out with Programme wise. Any suggestions?.
CHEVRON & HER ELUSIVE GIZMO:
May I request you check out the Spent Rounds thread in respect of the GIZMO. As you will see Chevron, in the early 50's, had what has now become known as a 'gizmo' on top of her director. This appears to be unique, in that form anyway, to her. The quest has been to find out what it was and its purpose. So far, to no proven avail. Any comments or suggestions Gentlemen? Preferably post on the Spent Rounds thread please. Thank you.
ltotenby
23-01-2010, 09:57
Evening All - regarding 'C' Class Destroyers, has any kind matelot got a decent to good photograph of HMS CROWN, R46 (I think) , 1945..... Would be very grateful............ George
harry.gibbon
23-01-2010, 13:19
re post #53!!!!
I think you are standing starboard side 'B' gundeck facing forw'd, the vent mesh is facing aft as you'd expect !!! just my belated opinion of course:p
Little h
tjstoneman
23-01-2010, 13:44
George,
You asked for photos of HMS CROWN. I don't think she ever sailed as "HMS", being handed over to Norway as HNoMS OSLO before completion. There is a photo of OSLO at http://picasaweb.google.com/pingbosun/DESTROYERSSECONDALBUM#5166346310407697682 (although captioned "HMS OSLO").
Tim
ltotenby
23-01-2010, 14:40
TIM - Many thanks for that info, really appreciated. At least I now have a photo and some info.... Cheers, George
jbryce1437
23-01-2010, 20:04
A couple of pics of Oslo, ex Crown
ltotenby
24-01-2010, 16:15
Many thanks for those pics 'beer bosun' - much appreciated.. George
Here are a few of Carysfort
COCKADE Paying off in 1958
Choppy Sea
30-01-2010, 13:17
The CH class destroyers were originally built with four turrets but X turret was later removed because they were found to be top heavy. Anyone who served on these ships will know that they rolled very heavily and would turn over onto their sides when the wheel was hard over.
The CH class destroyers were originally built with four turrets but X turret was later removed because they were found to be top heavy. Anyone who served on these ships will know that they rolled very heavily and would turn over onto their sides when the wheel was hard over.
All CH CA CO When first built had four MOUNTINGS also torpedo tubes on what we called the iron deck.Some also had STAAG at some point in there lives and a few namely cavalier for one had sea cat plus squid as well(that is why X mounting was removed to accommodate the squid .Two triple barrel squid weighed
more than a mounting .Also they raised the super structure for a sea cat magazine.So the weight bit does not come into it They also rolled as destroyers do when at speed :D:D
tjstoneman
30-01-2010, 16:31
Les,
I'not seen any photos of 'C's with a STAAG mounting; I'd be interested to see one. Many of the ships were completed with a twin Bofors 40mm Mk IV, known as a Hazemeyer, some had the twin 40mm Mk V mounting and CAPRICE had an old quadruple 2-pounder mounting. Some of the Ca class were later fitted for a Seacat launcher, but only two (CAPRICE and CAVALIER) actually had the Seacat system fitted - the others had a single 40mm where the Seacat launcher was supposed to go.
Tim
We were fitted for but not with seacat we did not have the aft bofor either .I remember well bacause the GI had his office in what would have been the saecat magazine(bofor mag ) he also lived up their too the staag were taken off early doors in there life i think by the early 60 to mid there were only a few type 15s with stagg .Cant help wih photies i have non only of the carysfort i was on
Good evening you 2 Daves. Leave me out the David family for now. Knocking on a bit so sometimes get a bit confused who you are referring to. Anyway attached is a bit of tech. info. Does it help? Note there are also the CR's which nobody seems to mention. Have a bit on them too if you want it? As for the guns, yes the Gunnery Branch will correct me too but I believe they ALL had single barrel turrets. Best wishes Mousey P.S. Lit h note the leader had + 36, rather high?, but would account for why we did not have a sick bay on Chequers. From memory all the heads of Depts. were commanders except Jimmy the 1 ~ the Duke, only a 2 and half ringer.
"yes the Gunnery Branch will correct me too but I believe they ALL had single barrel turrets."
David H (cant leave you out the David family) I'll get you out the do do before those G.I.'s come calling. Single barrel mountings dear boy - they were open at the breach end - turrets are enclosed. Yes they were all commanders except the Duke. Well remember Cdr (E) in his white overalls. Did you know that the skipper, Killer Mike, was brother of P. Margarets 'friend' the air attache? I'll sign off a Mousey so you dont have to consult confused.com
"yes the Gunnery Branch will correct me too but I believe they ALL had single barrel turrets."
David H (cant leave you out the David family) I'll get you out the do do before those G.I.'s come calling. Single barrel mountings dear boy - they were open at the breach end - turrets are enclosed. Yes they were all commanders except the Duke. Well remember Cdr (E) in his white overalls. Did you know that the skipper, Killer Mike, was brother of P. Margarets 'friend' the air attache? I'll sign off a Mousey so you dont have to consult confused.com
Yes they are mountings !!!!.All the H O DEPTs were two ringers on us (carysfort ).The jimmy a lt commander submariner the skipper was a commander big G little g on of only 4 or five serving at the time :D
Dave Hutson
31-01-2010, 12:12
Hi Mousey,
Have been away for a few days so had to refer right back on this one. Many thanks for trying to rescue me from an onslaught by our Gunnery experts, but, sorry, I never said CH's had Turrets, all I said was that they sported 4 x 4.7's. I believe that was in answer to someone saying they had 4.5's. But all this gunnery systems is interesting.
Dave H
p.s. I believe also they were mountings, not Turrets.
Choppy Sea
03-02-2010, 19:56
Take a look at my photos on page three HMS Chevron thread. The big one of her entring harbour with awnings up will show you what took the place of X Gun. As I said the X Gun was removed to correct the excesive roll of this class. As a matter of interest, someone mentioned the sick bay, this was at the forward end of the after superstructure before the hatch leading down to the after seamans messdeck.
Take a look at my photos on page three HMS Chevron thread. The big one of her entring harbour with awnings up will show you what took the place of X Gun. As I said the X Gun was removed to correct the excesive roll of this class. As a matter of interest, someone mentioned the sick bay, this was at the forward end of the after superstructure before the hatch leading down to the after seamans messdeck.
Twas me Sir who mentioned not remembering Chequers having a sick bay. I believe someone else who was also on Chequers pointed out that this was due to the excessive number of hosifers we had onboard including a white overalled Cdr (E). Better go round that buoy again and get the history right?
Choppy Sea
04-02-2010, 08:58
Twas me Sir who mentioned not remembering Chequers having a sick bay. I believe someone else who was also on Chequers pointed out that this was due to the excessive number of hosifers we had onboard including a white overalled Cdr (E). Better go round that buoy again and get the history right?
Mousey, we are trying to remember something which happened some 58 years ago, schoolkids today dont know what happened yesterday. I remember the sickbay because we lost a frogman at Port Fouyad and the Doc asked me to help him prepare the body for burial, with the help of an extra tot from Jimmy. Keeping in touch through this forum helps us and reminds us of what we experienced all those years ago. Splice the mainbrace.
By the way the frogmans name was M/E "Darkie" Gaish.
tim lewin
04-02-2010, 11:15
You are right, the doc was Bob Askam (wife Betty) i am sure, he helped to look after me when i contracted polio. Chequers was of course at the head of the Persian Gulf at the time. I have attached the relevant chapter from Lewin of Greenwich, in which you will find Bob's name in the last couple of lines. He and his family remained a close friend right up until his death, and my parents, around 10 years ago. As for refrences to myself, i am sure Richard Hill has dramatised this a little, i have only the vaguest memories of this time.
I have never tried to atachg a Word file before so i hope it works. You will also find in it references to HRH and numerous others i'm sure you will remember. Tony Troup who took over as No.1 i am sure was the son of the chap who wrote "on the bridge" which was for decades the only manual for watchkeeping officers. I have a copy somewhere, had two, but gave the first ed to HMSB.
good luck
tim
tim lewin
04-02-2010, 11:37
The bit about Chequers begins about half way through the chapter, i should have said.
There is a bit about Bellona at the beginning tho...
and a lot of rugger in between!
tim
Choppy Sea
04-02-2010, 20:16
You are right, the doc was Bob Askam (wife Betty) i am sure, he helped to look after me when i contracted polio. Chequers was of course at the head of the Persian Gulf at the time. I have attached the relevant chapter from Lewin of Greenwich, in which you will find Bob's name in the last couple of lines. He and his family remained a close friend right up until his death, and my parents, around 10 years ago. As for refrences to myself, i am sure Richard Hill has dramatised this a little, i have only the vaguest memories of this time.
I have never tried to atachg a Word file before so i hope it works. You will also find in it references to HRH and numerous others i'm sure you will remember. Tony Troup who took over as No.1 i am sure was the son of the chap who wrote "on the bridge" which was for decades the only manual for watchkeeping officers. I have a copy somewhere, had two, but gave the first ed to HMSB.
good luck
tim
Tim, thanks for the info which I found very interesting. As regards Abadan the article mentions that the Ist Squadron went there which is what I had in mind but I was corrected by Mousey who actually took part. Then the article goes on to name only four of the Squadron which is the most likely. We may be on different tacks with "Doc". The person I am refering to was a leading Sick bay Attendant on Chevron who joined the ship in 1952 shorty after I transfered from HMS Liverpool on to Chevron, he was the only medical staff that we carried. He was a tall slim chap who wore thick rimmed glasses and played the guitar in the dogwatches, aged about eighty now. The previous SBA was crash drafted and promoted after he attended to an American airman from a plane which crashed in the eastern med, when this man was seen by surgeons in Bighi the SBA recieved a citation and promation for his excellent work on the airmans scalp which was almost detached from his head. M/E Gaish died I think the morning before the queens coronation under questionable circumstances, four frogmen went to inspect the ships bottom at about 06.00 but only three came back up. These three went down several times but could find no trace of him. A deep sea launch arrived from Forth and the diver on his way down bumped into the body. Their gear at the time consisted of backpack nose clip and mouthpiece which had to be bit on and the mouth kept completely closed. If sea water entered the mouthpiece the reaction with the crystals inside gave off a toxic gas. When the body was found the mouthpiece was completely detached from his mouth. The bit about the seawater and crystals is only what we were told. Porpoise were ruled out because sentrys all around the ship had not reported any underwater movement until the frogmen went down . But it may have been possible for an enemy frogman to have entered the area at the same time as our men. As far as I know no apparent reason was given for the death. His funeral was low key because terrorists ashore had made it a habit to dig up servicemen, mutilate the bodies and hang them in trees. Luckily this did not happen to M/E Gaish. Thanks again for your very interesting articles.
tim lewin
05-02-2010, 04:56
The book it came from was called "Lewin of Greenwich" by Richard Hill (who only recently retired after years as editor of the Naval Review and is a noted Naval historian) the book is quite easily available through the second hand dealers.
Thanks very much for the extra info, there is nothing like memories of people who were there, even after all these years.
good luck
tim
Twas me Sir who mentioned not remembering Chequers having a sick bay. I believe someone else who was also on Chequers pointed out that this was due to the excessive number of hosifers we had onboard including a white overalled Cdr (E). Better go round that buoy again and get the history right?
I've just mentioned on the Comms thread that I wondered what Doc's and SBAs did when they had no patients? Not remembering the sick bay I would not remember that either of course.
steve roberts
05-02-2010, 11:22
Hi Mousey.See my post onthe comms thread.Cheers Steve.:)
INVINCIBLE
31-03-2010, 15:55
The book it came from was called "Lewin of Greenwich" by Richard Hill (who only recently retired after years as editor of the Naval Review and is a noted Naval historian) the book is quite easily available through the second hand dealers.
Thanks very much for the extra info, there is nothing like memories of people who were there, even after all these years.
good luck
tim
The book is available from the Royal Naval Museum bookshop in Portsmouth and I have seen it for sale in several other bookshops at a reduced price. It is an excellent book and much more than just a biography of a great man (my first captain!) but gives a very good overview of the Royal Navy at that time. Strongly recommended.
tim lewin
01-04-2010, 04:55
Thanks for that; when it went out of print i was lucky enough to secure the rights to republish it as an e-book from both the publishers and the author. This is how i am able to send you different chapters. There are a couple that are missing from the master CD RH sent me which i must have re-typed. I plan to republish later this year with a sort of forum to each chapter so people can submit their own memories to each, and of course with many more pictures, most of which foru members will have seen by now! But, having said that, it is a thoroughly comprehensive overview of the RN from 1939-1983 and thanks to RH's very careful research fills in a lot of detailed blanks. Most of the small recollections he obtained direct from a catalogue of people who are listed in the index.
tim
Cavendish, was our Capt D, consisting of Cavendish, Comet, Carysfort, and Contest, always thought there was a fifth, but cant remember, Contest was D48
I only have a stock photo of Contest which I gathered from this site but when I was on her in the late 50s the iron deck had been fitted with mine rails which were a tripping hazard. However, they were responsible for saving the life of a leading E.M. We were going north off the East Coast in heavy seas with lifelines rigged. The LEM was going aft on the iron deck when he was hit by a wave and knocked over. As he started to slide towards the ships side his toolbag jammed in the mine rails and he was able to hang on and work his way back onto the deck.
In the same storm a boy seaman was lost from a CA, I think it was Carysfort. The flotilla turned back and searched for about three hours but in the dark it was hopeless and eventually we were forced to give up.
Ken
I only have a stock photo of Contest which I gathered from this site but when I was on her in the late 50s the iron deck had been fitted with mine rails which were a tripping hazard. However, they were responsible for saving the life of a leading E.M. We were going north off the East Coast in heavy seas with lifelines rigged. The LEM was going aft on the iron deck when he was hit by a wave and knocked over. As he started to slide towards the ships side his toolbag jammed in the mine rails and he was able to hang on and work his way back onto the deck.
In the same storm a boy seaman was lost from a CA, I think it was Carysfort. The flotilla turned back and searched for about three hours but in the dark it was hopeless and eventually we were forced to give up.
Ken
A boy was lost off the carysfort in that storm .His kit was sold severall times over and it raised an ansome sum for his mother(family)
On the Contest we had Squid mountings, the midships tubes were removed ,and above q/deck we had a twin bofor, this was 55/56, Staags were just coming in then and we didnt have one had single bofors each side of bridge,
A boy was lost off the carysfort in that storm .His kit was sold severall times over and it saised an ansome sum for his mother(family)
I was on that excersise when the boy was lost , Roxboro was our skipper then i think and Goldsmith the jimmy think they put quite a bit in the whip round for sale of kit, i remember the life lines on deck and going along them to engine room with a fanny of kia, to get the live steam pipe in its for us on watch ,bloody rough sea`s that time,
Com. Roxborough was the skipper of Contest at that time. He went on to become Captain of Ark Royal and appear in the series 'Sailor' and finished as an Admiral.
The kye drain was on the stand-by fuel oil pump in the engine room near the 'vaps. In another thread I have described the cooking expertise of Geordie Browell, the leading stoker on my watch. He had a lovely touch with a steam drain.
The LEM I mentioned was Fitzgerald. We had another close shave earlier in Silema Creek but that is a different story
Ken
Lewin of Greenwich - would be grateful if 'Invincible' or anyone else could provide the ISB number please.
NSR's reference to the 'rails' brought back sore shins memories obtained on Obedient. Recent postings of minelaying on the Minesweepers and Minelayers thread are interesting as we never actually carried mines or knew how they were laid.
The loss of the Boy on Carysfort was so sad. Once I was promoted to O.D. I became involved in the Canteen Committe and was certainly very impressed with the results of a kit auction when we lost someone in the bone yard. Equally we lost all of our funds on Loch Alvie when there was a bit of a to do with a Guz cruiser in the canteen at Trinco. They lost theirs too!
Com. Roxborough was the skipper of Contest at that time. He went on to become Captain of Ark Royal and appear in the series 'Sailor' and finished as an Admiral.
The kye drain was on the stand-by fuel oil pump in the engine room near the 'vaps. In another thread I have described the cooking expertise of Geordie Browell, the leading stoker on my watch. He had a lovely touch with a steam drain.
The LEM I mentioned was Fitzgerald. We had another close shave earlier in Silema Creek but that is a different story
Ken
we hit a Gash barge coming out of Malta , on way to Suez fraca`s correct? Roxboro was only a two and half ringer then i think
we hit a Gash barge coming out of Malta , on way to Suez fraca`s correct? Roxboro was only a two and half ringer then i think
We also had a close shave when i was on her in 65 with a french sub
What year was she scrapped mid 60`s ? , we were up by Tower Bridge after coming back ,and the cook nicked our only motor boat,( he being steamed up) and left it on Wapping steps, unfortunately it got in the Daily Mirror, and all the thames bargemen as they went by gave several comments, lots of lively things happened on contest, a very hectic xmas in Gib was another, :)
CONTEST
Laid down 1 Nov 43. Launched from J.S. White's IOW yard 16 Dec 44. Completed 9 Nov 45. Into Reserve 59. Went to Grays to be broken up in Feb 60.
CONTEST
Laid down 1 Nov 43. Launched from J.S. White's IOW yard 16 Dec 44. Completed 9 Nov 45. Into Reserve 59. Went to Grays to be broken up in Feb 60.
Many thanks for information, must have shaved with the old lady many times, but theres still a lot of her former crews out there good easter to all of them
Originally Posted by Macnab
we hit a Gash barge coming out of Malta , on way to Suez fraca`s correct? Roxboro was only a two and half ringer then i think
I think that you are right that he was a two and a half at the time.
Regarding the gash barge, we scraped her while going astern out of French Creek and by the time we started to swing in Grand Harbour to line up fo the entrance we had picked up a list. Went back into French Creek and pumped ballast to bring the hole above water - a quick welding job and we were off again. The electricians did quite a bit of cussing as although the hole was quite small, it had flooded the starboard compartment by the stern tube where they kept their spares. They had to be hauled out, washed out with distilled water and dried before they could be restowed. It was the second time in two days but that is also another story.
Ken
A couple of not very good snapshots I took of HMS CAPRICE at Devonport in the late 1970's. The second shows her leaving for the scrapyard in, I think, 1979. unfortunately she's rather obscured by the large tug. (ROBUST, ROLLICKER or ROYSTERER)
Regards......Paul
astraltrader
09-05-2010, 01:39
Interesting pictures Paul.
VMT for posting them for us. :)
Paul,
CAPRICE Ended her seagoing days as Engineering officers training ship based at Devonport and was payed off for disposal by March 1973,In October 1973 she was towed to the Medway for scrapping,your photograph shows ROBUST towing her stern first out of Devonport prior to her being picked up by a deep sea tug for the tow to the medway.
Nice pictures by the way.
Regards
Dave
A little more info about CAPRICE. I find the position of the refuelling line interesting. Ours was taken onboard at the break. At least that was where it went inboard from. What a pong during refuelling!
Reference my post 156 and 'rumrat's' 158 above.
Dave, thank you for pointing out that my photos were early, not late, 1970's. I think I was getting a little mixed up between CAPRICE and ULSTER which also left under tow for the scrapyard at the end of that decade. (actually just discovered ULSTER left in Oct 1980)
In view of amended dates for CAPRICE, the photos may not be mine, possibly given to me by friends or colleagues, which used to happen quite often in those far-off days'.
Regards .......Paul
A little more info about CAPRICE. I find the position of the refuelling line interesting. Ours was taken onboard at the break. At least that was where it went inboard from. What a pong during refuelling!
We had (carysfort) fuel points port stb more or less of A gun just outside the fwd POs doors and used them most .We had them on the break also .We used those points when takinf FFO on whilst alongside also water
jbryce1437
11-05-2010, 18:52
Post #158 possibly shows Caprice being towed stern first by a Dog Class tug, with Robust taking over the tow to the Medway when clear of the harbour.
Re, post 162 above.
Jim, yes, it does seem a bit pointless using ROBUST for such a short journey as she and her two sister vessels were certainly 'ocean going' and took ARK ROYAL and EAGLE away on their 'scrapping' voyage a few years later. Maybe there was some contractual issue, but it still seems a little strange.
Regards.......Paul
HMS CAVALIER
The old Girl needs your votes please.
The link is self explanatory.
http://www.chdt.org.uk/NetsiteCMS/pageid/930/The%20National%20Lottery%20Awards%202010%20-%20vote%20for%20HMS%20Cavalier!.html
Thank you.
Derek Dicker
01-06-2010, 14:52
What more could I do, as an old CA man in the sixtys Caesar 8th DS
Derek (Bunts)
harry.gibbon
01-06-2010, 15:31
Done with pleasure...
What more could a ex Battle Blass (x2) man do but help save the next best;) ... well I am nearly a Ca man being ex Camperdown:)
Hope for success!!
Little h
astraltrader
01-06-2010, 15:31
And please what does CA stand for?
harry.gibbon
01-06-2010, 15:40
And please what does CA stand for?
The C class destroyers that started with the letters CA.. Please see:-
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/c_class.htm
Little h
Caprice Postie
19-08-2010, 17:23
I can confirm that in the case of the CA class the 4.5's did not have RPC initially. At least one, Caprice, commissioned without a DCT, the others were fitted with Mk5 directors and 285 radar. Caprice joined the Fleet before any of the 'Z' class commissioned. After escorting a number of convoys to Russia she was refitted and a DCT installed before sailing to join the East Indies station.
I joined her at Yarrow's yard in early January 1959 after she had undergone a total modernisation and maker's refit. RPC was fitted, the director was replaced with a MK.6M model with 275 radar, the fire control system was the new Flyplane 5, a set of TT's was removed and two Squid mortars situated where X gun had been. All modern materials were used to fit out the mess decks and my first impression was that I had joined Daddy's yacht. After sea and acceptance trials we sailed for Portsmouth being totally battered all the way by one of the worst seas that I ever experienced. Of the 14 members of the FX Seaman's Mess only 3 did not succumb to mal de mer. Even the C.O. complained that he had been thrown out of his bunk three times. Problems with the condensers held us up in Portsmouth until early April when we took off for Singapore having been given permission for a fast passage.
AFAIK the only ships on the FES at the time were ourselves, Cavalier and the frigate Crane. The Aussies chipped in Voyager and Vendetta and the Kiwis were represented by the frigate Pukaki. We were joined later by Carysfort and Cavendish (Captain D). We were a very happy and efficient ship and won most of the pots available for professional expertise and sporting prowess. In one exercise off the Philippines with the USN, after watching two US destroyers turn the sky black with exploding ordnance without even scratching anything, we shot down 4 radio controlled drones with only 13 broadsides.
I understand that she was sold to the breakers for a mere 15K sterling.
H.M.S. CAVALIER
I thought you might like to see this excellent foto of Cavalier which has just won a Lottery award for education. [For those who do not know, as I did not originally, after clicking on the thumbnail click again for a larger version]. For further details have a look at the Chatham Historic Dockyard site.
SCRG1970
05-03-2011, 15:23
CAVENDISH with CARYSFORT in hot pursuit.
Regards
gerry
culverin
05-03-2011, 16:46
Astraltrader and your # 168.
The 4 flotillas or groups as built comprised the CA, CH, CO, CR classes and each ship within that group had their names commence with each of the 2 letters.
However, there would also have been a CE group, but they morphed into the Weapon class, of which ultimately only 4 entered service. Celt and Centaur were the 2 commenced as such, the former becoming Sword and duly cancelled, whilst Centaur was firstly renamed Tomahawk and then entered service as Scorpion.
Centaur was duly the name given to a Hermes class light fleet carrier and saw service as such.
D01Caprice
05-03-2011, 17:16
CAPRICE in dry dock in Singapore. We had discovered that we had stripped a turbine when in Tokyo and came back on one engine - but with the wick turned up. When in dockyard hands I took 2 weeks station leave and went to an Army rest camp at Penang. Later I went on anti terrorist patrol through rubber plantations with the Staffordshires and a few Ghurkas.
D01Caprice
17-03-2011, 11:06
The first picture was taken during the 1959-60 commission and the giveaway is the over large steel figure '8' held by brackets on the funnel. The C.O. designate then standing by the ship in Yarrows yard came up with the idea. After joining the FES It was ordered to be removed on at least two occasions and although it was entered into the dockyard repair list, we managed to hang on to it.
The second picture is of a much later vintage after modifications to the bridge superstructure and foremast had been carried out. Looks as if she was doing a 'sub' for the Skylark by giving trips around the harbour.
The third shows her being broken up at Queenborough on the Isle of Sheppey. Having spent the best 20 months of my young life running her hard to see her treated so goes against my grain.
The first picture was taken during the 1959-60 commission and the giveaway is the over large steel figure '8' held by brackets on the funnel. The C.O. designate then standing by the ship in Yarrows yard came up with the idea. After joining the FES It was ordered to be removed on at least two occasions and although it was entered into the dockyard repair list, we managed to hang on to it.
The second picture is of a much later vintage after modifications to the bridge superstructure and foremast had been carried out. Looks as if she was doing a 'sub' for the Skylark by giving trips around the harbour.
The third shows her being broken up at Queenborough on the Isle of Sheppey. Having spent the best 20 months of my young life running her hard to see her treated so goes against my grain.
2nd pic ~ what a tidley whaler!
D01Caprice
13-04-2011, 01:58
We had (carysfort) fuel points port stb more or less of A gun just outside the fwd POs doors and used them most .We had them on the break also .We used those points when takinf FFO on whilst alongside also water
Same same Caprice. A modification that we had carried out was to connect the two fuel lines. This meant that we could refuel in almost half the time.
Derek Dicker
13-04-2011, 10:31
The first picture was taken during the 1959-60 commission and the giveaway is the over large steel figure '8' held by brackets on the funnel. The C.O. designate then standing by the ship in Yarrows yard came up with the idea. After joining the FES It was ordered to be removed on at least two occasions and although it was entered into the dockyard repair list, we managed to hang on to it.
The second picture is of a much later vintage after modifications to the bridge superstructure and foremast had been carried out. Looks as if she was doing a 'sub' for the Skylark by giving trips around the harbour.
The third shows her being broken up at Queenborough on the Isle of Sheppey. Having spent the best 20 months of my young life running her hard to see her treated so goes against my grain.
Mng all, what a sad sight, unfortunately this rape of our Royal Navy is common action these days.
Derek (bunts)
alanandbren
13-04-2011, 11:59
Mng all, what a sad sight, unfortunately this rape of our Royal Navy is common action these days.
Derek (bunts)
Hi Derek, to be fair I think she had a fair length of service, as against some of our modern Navy.
Alan
Derek Dicker
13-04-2011, 12:52
Hi Alan,
yes I would agree with your comment, having served on a CA. HMS Caesar in the same squadron (yes we did have squadrons and flotillas).
in those days.
Derek (Bunts)
We were fitted for but not with seacat we did not have the aft bofor either .I remember well bacause the GI had his office in what would have been the saecat magazine(bofor mag ) he also lived up their too the staag were taken off early doors in there life i think by the early 60 to mid there were only a few type 15s with stagg .Cant help wih photies i have non only of the carysfort i was on
I am trying to build a scale model of the good ship Carysfort and have purchased a copy of the ship's plans including the last modifications carried out during the last major refit in Gibraltar. It certainly helps to refresh the memory regarding the ship's lay-out.
Regards
John
CHEQUERS AND THE 1ST D.F.
Old 1st DF'ers [1st Destroyer Fleet] of the early 1950's era might like to read the attached which is posted with Tim Lewin's permission who now holds the rights to the book ~ "Lewin of Greenwich."
harry.gibbon
22-06-2011, 22:26
CHEQUERS AND THE 1ST D.F.
Old 1st DF'ers [1st Destroyer Fleet] of the early 1950's era might like to read the attached which is posted with Tim Lewin's permission who now holds the rights to the book ~ "Lewin of Greenwich."
David/Mousey,
Query?
1st DF = 1st Destroyer Flotilla or 1st Destroyer Fleet?
Little h
David/Mousey,
Query?
1st DF = 1st Destroyer Flotilla or 1st Destroyer Fleet?
Little h
Good question Harry. I did not realise until I looked it up ~ so we could say 1st Destroyer Small Fleet. ;)
Dave Hutson
23-06-2011, 09:43
David/Mousey,
Query?
1st DF = 1st Destroyer Flotilla or 1st Destroyer Fleet?
Little h
First Destroyer SQUADRON please
Dave H
astraltrader
23-06-2011, 09:55
First Destroyer SQUADRON please
Dave H
Interesting point there Dave as technically both are correct!
The RN generally used squadrons for the larger warships and flotillas for the smaller. Destroyers formed the cut off point being the largest type of Flotilla as well as being used in Squadrons.
Generally I think I am also right in saying that Destroyer Squadrons were more typically used in WW1 whereas during WW2 and after they were called Destroyer Flotillas.
harry.gibbon
23-06-2011, 10:21
Interesting point there Dave as technically both are correct!
Generally I think I am also right in saying that Destroyer Squadrons were more typically used in WW1 whereas during WW2 and after they were called Destroyer Flotillas.
TerryDave,
Just had to log on to defend my 'honour' on this one:-
My post was specific to David/Mousey's contribution which expanded 1st DF to read 1st Destroyer Fleet.
I know that DS = Destroyer Squadron, having served on ships in both the 3rd DS and the 1st DS respectively (late 50's early 60's), so perhaps your assumption should be reversed Terry.
However, I am also aware that DF = Destroyer Flotilla, but had never seen DF used to mean Destroyer Fleet.
There now that makes me feel better:)
Little h
Dave Hutson
23-06-2011, 11:44
TerryDave,
Just had to log on to defend my 'honour' on this one:-
My post was specific to David/Mousey's contribution which expanded 1st DF to read 1st Destroyer Fleet.
I know that DS = Destroyer Squadron, having served on ships in both the 3rd DS and the 1st DS respectively (late 50's early 60's), so perhaps your assumption should be reversed Terry.
However, I am also aware that DF = Destroyer Flotilla, but had never seen DF used to mean Destroyer Fleet.
There now that makes me feel better:)
Little h
Apologies Supergolly - sitting here with foot in mouth :o
Ch Tel
astraltrader
23-06-2011, 12:14
TerryDave,
Just had to log on to defend my 'honour' on this one:-
My post was specific to David/Mousey's contribution which expanded 1st DF to read 1st Destroyer Fleet.
I know that DS = Destroyer Squadron, having served on ships in both the 3rd DS and the 1st DS respectively (late 50's early 60's), so perhaps your assumption should be reversed Terry.
However, I am also aware that DF = Destroyer Flotilla, but had never seen DF used to mean Destroyer Fleet.
There now that makes me feel better:)
Little h
I accept that my years might have been out but I stick with my main point that the RN had both Destroyer Flotillas and Squadrons. :)
SQUADRON OR FLOTILLA?
A little clarification Gents.
When I joined Pelican on 5 Jul 50 she was leader of the 3rd F.F. When I joined Chequers on 1 Jan 51 she was leader of the 1st D.F. At that time I believe the 1st C.S. was part of the Med. fleet. Also at that time 'sweepers and subs' were in flotillas.
Later but certainly before 1952 flotillas became squadrons as a result I believe of NATO standardising identifications/classifications?
Perhaps someone can locate the details in the history of NATO as I'm off to play Drake's game during the 2nd dog.
[Dog - dogwatch 1800-2000.
Med - a sea stretching from Gib (Gibraltar) to Turkey and from southern Europe to the north African coast.]
P.S. Of course it does not matter anymore as we do not have enough ships to make up one of either. I seem to remember T.F.'s (Task Forces?) whereby various numbers and decimel points were added until you go down to the 'ship' concerned. A nice little point for someone to explain!
Polycell
23-06-2011, 16:49
Interesting point there Dave as technically both are correct!
The RN generally used squadrons for the larger warships and flotillas for the smaller. Destroyers formed the cut off point being the largest type of Flotilla as well as being used in Squadrons.
Generally I think I am also right in saying that Destroyer Squadrons were more typically used in WW1 whereas during WW2 and after they were called Destroyer Flotillas.
Not strictly true. But I guess it depends when you were talking about.
In my time Submarines and minesweepers WERE in squadrons and I seem to remember when I was on Chaplet in 1961 I was in a destroyer (7th??) squadron!
Fred
Sorry!
Dave Hutson
23-06-2011, 18:22
Hi Dave,
Yep, A ship could be a TE [Element] within a TU [Unit] within a TG [Group] part of a TF [Force]. Could get quite confusing at times.
Sorry folks - A Task Force would be formed of many ships which under one Command would be divided into Groups [ie a Carrier Group consisting of Carrier and Escorts] each with their own Command, These Groups could then be broken down into Units again each with their own Command [ie a Destroyer Squadron] then finally there would be Elements which were ships or units acting independently of the Unit but reporting back to the Command of their Task Unit. Should that element, for instance, be a Submarine on shadowing assignment he could be reporting direct to the Commander of the Unit, Group or Force dependent upon his orders, the content of that report and the severity of the threat or information contained therein. The Element could also be more than one ship/submarine.
Hope this make sense, if not, perhaps someone else wants to try.
Dave H
Hi Dave,
Yes, A ship could be a TE [Element] within a TU [Unit] within a TG [Group] part of a TF [Force]. Could get quite confusing at times.
Sorry folks - A Task Force would be formed of many ships which under one Command would be divided into Groups [ie a Carrier Group consisting of Carrier and Escorts] each with their own Command, These Groups could then be broken down into Units again each with their own Command [ie a Destroyer Squadron] then finally there would be Elements which were ships or units acting independently of the Unit but reporting back to the Command of their Task Unit. Should that element, for instance, be a Submarine on shadowing assignment he could be reporting direct to the Commander of the Unit, Group or Force dependent upon his orders, the content of that report and the severity of the threat or information contained therein. The Element could also be more than one ship/submarine.
Hope this make sense, if not, perhaps someone else wants to try.
Dave H
A valiant effort Dave which brings back memories and hopefully gets others thinking and scratching their beards!
Meanwhile back to the other job in hand.
Drake must have been pleased as it was a beautiful evening on the green at Horsham but alas it ended up Reigate Priory 2 pts Horsham 8. They have 70 male members whereas we have only 28 but no excuses at least the local liquid was excellent. I have since managed to unearth the following and standby my assertion re the changeover from Flotilla to Squadron in about 1952 as proven by the following ~
NATO was formed as a result of the North Atlantic Treaty, which was signed by 12 countries on April 4, 1949, in Washington, D.C. The 12 countries were Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Greece and Turkey joined NATO in 1952. West Germany joined in 1955. Germany replaced West Germany as a NATO member in 1990, when West Germany and East Germany were united. Spain joined NATO in 1982.
1 9 5 2
January Harwich deployment in continuation.
HMS Fleet Minesweeper LAERTES replaced HMS MANDATE which went into Reserve.
February Harwich training and Fleet duties in continuation
to (Note Ships of Flotilla were deployed for NATO and other RN exercises during this period
December and visited ports in UK and NATO countries during routine programme.
Designation of Flotilla changed to 4th Minesweeping Squadron.)
Please note the last line. Any other offers?:DOf course that could be wiped off my post?
harry.gibbon
23-06-2011, 23:07
David,
I have no quibble with the timing of any changeover from DF to DS ... absolutely none at all mate!!!
However with regard to some other contributors, there seems to have been an lack of reading of previous posts before putting finger tip to keyboard... in that .... my earlier post was querying the use of DF to mean Destroyer Fleet!!! quite simply that... nothing else ... and it was most likely a senior moment for you at the time mate.
So carry on regardless and if you get a chance to wrench yourself away from that flat green stuff:D then grab the oppurtinity to poke your eyes in the direction of the Aerials/Arrays thread soon, because a glimpse of a gizmo might reveal itself... you never know eh:):)
Little h
A final shot from an olde Flotilla matelot ~
"A flotilla (from Spanish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language), meaning a small flota (fleet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_fleet)) of ships, and this from French flotte), or naval flotilla, is a formation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_formation) of small warships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warship) that may be part of a larger fleet. A flotilla is usually composed of a homogeneous group of the same class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_class) of warship, such as frigates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigates), destroyers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyers), torpedo boats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedo_boats), submarines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarines), gunboats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunboats), or minesweepers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minesweeper_(ship)). Groups of larger warships are usually called squadrons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squadron_(naval)), but similar units of non-capital ships may be called squadrons in some places and times, and flotillas in others.
A flotilla is usually commanded by a Rear Admiral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear_Admiral), a Commodore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_(rank)) or a Captain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_(naval)), depending on the importance of the command (a Vice Admiral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_Admiral) would normally command a squadron). A flotilla is often divided into two or more divisions (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Division_(naval)&action=edit&redlink=1), each of which might be commanded by the most senior Commander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commander). A flotilla is often, but not necessarily, a permanent formation.
In modern navies, flotillas have tended to become administrative units containing several squadrons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squadron_(naval)). As warships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warships) have grown larger, the term squadron has gradually replaced the term flotilla for formations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation) of destroyers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyers), frigates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigates) and submarines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarines) in many navies."
Gizmo? What Gizmo? Glad you have not given up on it Harry. If I can find my way through all those AE's I must have a look. But please no more of those weird and wonderful gunnery 'clocks' as I find it difficult to work out the time they are telling. Certainly not good old GMT. Cheers.
tim lewin
24-06-2011, 05:26
For what its worth my understanding is that Flotilla was used during the War (second) for destroyer formations and into the early fifties but changed between 1950 and 1955 to squadron in keeping with USN parlance as NATO grew in significance so when my father joined Chequers in 1949/50 she was part of the 1st destroyer flotilla but when he took over Corunna in 1956 she was part of the 4th destroyer sqn! and by 1961 he took over Urchin, she was part, leader, of the 17th FS, Frigate Sqn, the term flotilla was left to flocks of smaller craft!
tim
For what its worth my understanding is that Flotilla was used during the War (second) for destroyer formations and into the early fifties but changed between 1950 and 1955 to squadron in keeping with USN parlance as NATO grew in significance so when my father joined Chequers in 1949/50 she was part of the 1st destroyer flotilla but when he took over Corunna in 1956 she was part of the 4th destroyer sqn! and by 1961 he took over Urchin, she was part, leader, of the 17th FS, Frigate Sqn, the term flotilla was left to flocks of smaller craft!
tim
I think you will find it changed to squadron in the early sixties.A lot of the CA's left the eight in 1961 and two most went for refit in Gibraltar and emerged as squadron ships
Dave Hutson
24-06-2011, 17:05
I think you will find it changed to squadron in the early sixties.A lot of the CA's left the eight in 1961 and two most went for refit in Gibraltar and emerged as squadron ships
Hi Big Les, Earlier mate, I was in the 6th FS [Undine] in October 1954 then 1st DS from mid 1955.
Heck, this argument could go on and on. You say tomato I say tomarter - all same but different.
Dave H
I think that we are going nowhere with this latest part of the thread. We now know that sometime between the late 50s and early 60s it changed.
Unless someone can come up with concrete evidence then perhaps we should move on with this interesting thread.
Dave
Dave Hutson
24-06-2011, 17:59
I think that we are going nowhere with this latest part of the thread. We now know that sometime between the late 50s and early 60s it changed.
Unless someone can come up with concrete evidence then perhaps we should move on with this interesting thread.
Dave
The voice of reason prevails. Thanks Dave.
In the words off TT [Lewin] "Make it so"
Dave H
tim lewin
25-06-2011, 08:19
cheers Dave, he loved these expressions; we still say "There's a thing" for any expression of surprise...
When I joined Cavendish in 1961 she was part of the 8th DF, on completion of her refit she joined the 21st Escort Squadron and later she was Captain D of the 24th Escort Squadron. These Squadrons consisted of Destroyers and Frigates, both Brighton and Blackpool were 21st ES.
When I joined Cavendish in 1961 she was part of the 8th DF, on completion of her refit she joined the 21st Escort Squadron and later she was Captain D of the 24th Escort Squadron. These Squadrons consisted of Destroyers and Frigates, both Brighton and Blackpool were 21st ES.
Your photo reminded me we had roughers in the Med. too Al.
Once coming back to Malta from Cyprus a gregale was blowing. We had to carry on up to the lee of Scility to turn and come back into Sliema. Shall we say the C's had a rather slim profile?;)
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